Unsolved Mysteries: An Early Keith Jarrett Influence?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ธ.ค. 2023
- In this episode, Adam and Peter delve into the musical journey of John Coates Jr., exploring the possibility of his influence on the legendary Keith Jarrett. Join us as we unravel the connections between these two great piano players and appreciate Coates' distinctive style that may have left a mark on Jarrett's own musical evolution.
~~JAZZ TALK~~
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↓ Links from the pod ↓
John Coates Jr. Music
Spotify:
open.spotify.com/artist/5i8g4...
Discogs:
www.discogs.com/artist/233857...
Songwhip:
songwhip.com/johncoatesjr
Ethan Iverson's Article referencing John Coates Jr.:
ethaniverson.com/shades-of-ja...
Keith Jarrett Interview:
ethaniverson.com/interviews/i...
❓Have a question for us? Leave us a voicemail (SpeakPipe): link.youllhearit.com/speakpipe
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For my graduate thesis, I interviewed John Coates about Keith Jarrett in the late 90s. it was a very interesting interview.
Where can we find this interview???
Thank you for bringing John Coates to your audience! Keith Jarrett is a singular talent, no doubt. But, I don't think there's evidence that JC changed his style because of Keith. Knowing that the Deerhead Inn in Delaware Water Gap is only 70 miles west of NYC but an hour drive to Allentown changes the picture. DWG was an inexpensive place for a musician to buy a house and still be able to gig in NY and the Poconos. It drew an incredible list of premier Jazz musicians. Short list: Phil Woods, Bill Goodwin, Bob Dorough, Dave Liebman, Urbie Green, Zoot Sims and JC. At one time their were 6 venues for jazz in a town of 500, with the Deerhead at the center. John actually lived in the DH for a time, would walk across the street to work at the Shawnee Press doing choral arrangements then play in the evenings. Word got out that he was the guy to see, a musician's musician. His 1st recording may be "normal piano" but he was 17. He turned down gigs as the house pianist for the Tonight Show, and Sarah Vaughn to focus on his own playing and composition. As it sometimes goes, not every great musician can navigate the "business'. John had his own personal demons, and made a choice to focus on his work. You might want to dig into more info at the jazz archive at East Stroudsburg Univ. There should be a lot more info on Coates. He deserves to be heard. He was awkward off the stage, but once he played he was a force of nature, totally absorbed in the work. When he stopped, he would look up as if to say: "what are you guys doing here". Another side note: John broke his right hand playing basketball which forced him to develop his left hand technique which is one of my favorite parts of his playing. So much more to him, the DWG, and the Deerhead. Lucky to be able to hear world-class players (Bill Charlap, the late John Abercrombie, etc.) for 3 sets with a $15-20 cover knowing they might be playing one set at Club Dizzy for $50 the next night.
I was hanging with Myles Davis at his apartment in 1988. I had just spent the weekend relisten to bitches brew, and I asked him who his favorite fender Rhodes player was because he had three of the best cats in Zawinul,Chick and Herbie. He quickly said to me, Keith Jarrett… back then there was no TH-cam so I never saw any video of Keith playing with Miles and especially playing Fender Rhodes.. he then said to me “Keith is a funky Muthaf..ker “ even though there was a track on Live Evil.. a version of What I Say.. it wasn’t until I heard the CD set The Cellar Door Sessions that I really got the whole vibe. There was Keith playing Fender Rhodes in that country style that just translated well to the Fender Rhodes… there is still no doubt in my mind just from my personal history that goes back to 1974 at the Delaware water gap thatJohn Coats was a huge influence on Keith
Thank you , Thank you for spreading the Johnny Coates connection ! John was my my very first influence as I lived close to the Dear Head Inn . The first time I heard him , Phil Woods sat in the last set!!!
Paul Bley is an answer...
Yes +1 for Paul Bley doing it first :-)
I also hear Bley as a huge influence on Aaron
Exactly!
2 facts about Jarrett that are most often overlooked is first: He was deeply interested in the ramifications of Ornette Coleman which influenced his choice of collaborators ie Charlie Hayden, Dewey Redmond, Paul Motian for his American 70s quartet and his compositions and free approaches for his ECM Quartet at the same time. And 2ndly when Kenney Wheeler's Gnu High arguably one of the most harmonically advanced jazz LPs of the 70s was recorded at ECM with David Holland and Jack Dejohnette, Jarrett was chosen as their pianist assisted by the influence of Manfred Eicher. Inspite of how uchracteristically Jarrett, Mr. Wheelers compositions were; Jarrett was undeniably amazing providing the only record of Jarrett deploying his amazing lyicism through such preset unconventional harmonic mazes.
YES! The Ornette Coleman continuum along with Old and New Dreams
@@mellotones I think he was busy learning how to play free in Ornette's style because the number of pianists who mastered that you could ostensibly count on one hand. Well more but not famous
My mouth fell open when I heard that first fragment you played
Best show on TV !!!
I first heard John Coates, Jr. at the Deer Head Inn in 1977. John Coates, Jr. had an influence on Keith's playing. I pointed it out to him one night and he just smiled.
Bill Goodwin knows the truth. He played with Keith and John.
I lived at the Deerhead in the late 70's early 80's. Johnny played every Saturday night and I must have heard him hundreds of times. He worked across the street from the Deerhead at Shawnee Press as a choral arranger. We ate lunch together many times. I had another friend Gary King a bass player who also lived in the Poconos and recorded with a lot of well known artists: Roberta Flack, Bob James, George Benson, Hubert Laws, Blood, Sweat and Tears, etc. anyway Gary told me one time to tell Johnny that Creed Taylor would like to talk to him about a record deal. I told Johnny and he just kind of smiled and shrugged. As far as I know he never did contact him. He liked his simple life I think.
Gala x100, listening from Spokane, WA. I enjoy your discussions :)
Gala x100, watching from Boston
Cool. Will definitely check out his music now!
Great pianist, I'm always happy to add someone to my rotation list.
Nice. Never knew about Coates till I watched this.
Glenn Davis on drums and DeWitt Kay on bass on "Love is Enough". Glenn was a great friend of mine, as was John .Glenn and John played often as a duo at The Deer Head Inn in the '60's. Here is a later recording of them playing John's beautiful composition "Epilog#99" at The Deer Head in the early 1990's. Note John's left-handed bass and the high level of musical dialogue/interplay. John's first Savoy release was recorded when he was 16/17 years old. By the mid to late '60's, John's style was by all accounts fully developed. He wasn't a fan of recording and that is the only reason there is such a gap between his debut and the 1974 release. th-cam.com/video/R71rUS7PEW0/w-d-xo.html Also check out John's "Tokyo Concert" LP, it is on TH-cam and is amazing.
John let me put my cassette player under the piano. What a great time there
Also, I have been told the teenage Keith played drums with Coates at the Deer Head. I heard Coates many, many times . I’m in Allentown now too 😊
Thanks A LOT 😊😊 Happy new year
First thing I heard when you put JC’s playing on was a Vince Guaraldi vibe, I think he deserves a lot more credit than he gets from the jazz cognoscenti.
wow! that's super interesting. makes you wonder how that musical connection came about
Gala times 100😁...watching from Bournemouth in England...
Gala x100, listening from Cincinnati, OH
Good episode !!!
Gala times 100, watching from Boston MA
The Deer Head Inn is in Delaware Water Gap, PA, about 40 plus miles north-northeast of Allentown, but hey, close enough. Lafayette College (Easton, PA) has a great jazz program and a nice hall in Williams Center for the Arts in case Peter's or Adam's managers are looking for bookings. (I'm also an OS Pro member under my real name.)
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I grew up in the Poconos ( where The Dearhead is located in Delaware Water Gap ( also home to Phil Woods and others .. Check out the albums "Pocono Friends Vol 1 and 2 IF you can find them) Probably heard him the first time
in the late 60s and many times im the early 70's . Saw Keith Jarrett quite a few times there listening and hanging out with his friend Johnny Coates . I saw Keith sit in playing drums on a phone book as a kid and thought Keith was a drummer until many years later . JCs first album was cut when he was 16 years old but his playing sounds the way it did in the recordings you guys played as long as I was listening to him.. Seen him with Phil Woods , Bob
Dorough and many other legends who were always reverently playing and Hanging with Johnny .. he was a legend to all who knew him
and heard him.
I might add that in the 60s and 70s I was a kid ( circa '61) and My Mom was a quite good pianist herself and the Deerhead was also a functional Inn and restaurant. ( my Favorite Cheesesteak ever and French onion Soup) I would beg my my Mom often to go to the Deerhead and quite often she happily agreed ( She loved Johnny's Music as well as Keiths and were all
friends.) The last time I heard him was about 15 years ago , after he had moved to LA to be reunited with his first wife ( after 50 years or so ) Every time I heard him was an unforgettable experience. He was very interesting to talk to as well . Very humble and an absolute genius
gala x 100 watchin' from Lithuania babyyy
Wow, that intro!
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Are used to hang down at the water gap a lot because I studied piano with Phil Wood’s piano player, Mike Melillo. They knew Keith because he was from the neighborhood.. Keith played drums with John at one point.. anybody that can’t hear the influence doesn’t have a set of ears.. I was told the story about someone bumping into Keith at a supermarket down there and asking if he was going to go over to the deer head because John was playing.. Keith’s response was OK I don’t need to be influenced anymore.. John was an incredible original and those first couple of solo albums just show the influence that he had on Keith and others like Lyle Mays as well… listen to the track memories of tomorrow!
Guys, the Deer Head is in Delaware Water Gap on the Pennsylvania/New Jersey border. Saw him many times 79-81. Keith was 17 when he was drumming for John. John moaned along, as did Keith. Not really close to Scranton. John lived over the border in New Jersey in the mountains. Also James Carville came up with the Alabama in between adage.
Ace!
Gala 100 from Montreal
Bobo Stenson is also an important player to consider. Also his whole band became Jarrett’s Scandinavian Quartet.
Had a disastrous first date at the Deer Head Inn. Basically I just wanted to listen to the music. Oh well!
As someone who's lived in PA, people often say it's Pennsyltucky in the middle. Just putting that out there.
Yeah man …( Jazz lingo) … or maybe it isn’t actually current Jazz lingo? IDk
“ So good man” - Adam Maness
Anyways … I always love it when Adam & Peter play together at the Intro of the show!!!!! “ So good man!
I am subscribed but I don’t always leave a comment when I watch you. I love jazz as well as other styles of music. Had KJ ever said who his inspirations were? Since they were associates and maybe friends, it’s possible they influenced each other.
GALA x100 from Indy
Gala
Another interesting name in that connection: Weldon Irvine.
you should start every episode with a jam like that ....
GALA Houston, TX
do you have a recording from J COATES between about 1957 and 1972 ?
Suggestion: Use the theme song to play a sample of what yall will be talking about in the episode. This would serve as an excellent indicator as well as a demonstration of how to use it.
Would love for Max to transcribe this intro.
Ethan Iverson clearly has irrational hang ups regarding matters pertaining to Keith Jarrett and race, it’s glaringly obvious in his writings. Just thought that was worth mentioning as I can’t possible b the only person who noticed.
Shoot, I don’t want to be a jive turkey.
I saw Jarrett play drums with DeJohnette on piano in Eugene, Oregon. I actually think Jack is a better pianist than Keith is a drummer, but this opinion is based on a very small sample size. They played Poinciana, by the way.
When and where in Eugene? I used to live there.
@@CWBella Sorry - my memory is not very reliable! I think that was in Berkeley, sometime between 1984 and 1992. I have seen KJ solo in Eugene, and seen Jack here with others (Herbie? Can’t remember), but I know I only saw the trio in Berkeley.
also a huge michel petrucciani vibe
You mean Michel has a huge Jarrett vibe if you know your history…
The best example of Elton John's most countrified, chicken-fried piano playing is on his commercial live album called 11-17-70. I think it was a big enough trend throughout that whole Burt Reynolds of a decade, with Elton John and Rolling Stones, of England, already in pop culture plagiarizing Anericana, country and blues... American jazz pianists plagalizing European jazz tastes... But it got started in the Poconos?! Isn't that where you went when you get 86ed from the Catskills? Speaking of fabulous inappropriation, there is far too little Yma Sumac on TH-cam. Back to the topic - I'd heard of the Deer Head Inn in stories, but didn't know who John Coates was. Thanks for the introduction to his playing - it was really enjoyable, and that's a name I won't skip over in the future.
I don't mean plagiarizing as a serious charge... that seems obvious to me, but online in 2023, I should probably mention that. Britpop is fine, even the Ed Sheeran song. The lawsuits are always about money.
I saw an interview where Elton John said that stylistically, Keith Jarrett was his favorite pianist.
It sounds like Coates got his stuff from church…I mean we’re else!?
Who cares about what Ethan thinks😂 He thinks Bill Evans is way overrated…
Not that similar to Jarrett, some superficial cross overs.
😂