I'm basically a hermit INFP .I do sense how i'm different but i'm also ok with it. I have been in relationships and have children and good friends too, and plenty of options to become more social than i am, but it can feel overwhelming. I'm also occupied with nature and conservation, along with being interested in social science, and world affair and so on. I love your videos and interesting info. Thank you very much
I have the loner in me. Especially when you mentioned exhibitionist tendencies, I'm a 17 year old high school girl and I have fantasies of appearing "mysterious" and "magnetic" to people. It feels like I can't express myself to others on an intimate level, so I express myself as a "self publicist". It is good in the sense that it drives me to develop my persona more creatively. But people are not going to be watching and thinking about me always, and I will eventually be left out because I didn't try to initiate any real intimacy with people.
This was excellent! I was just researching avoidant relationship interactions this morning so watching this afterwards was fascinating. Had my earbuds in and when you said “Schmalzy Edward Cullen vibe” I think my hubby thought I lost my mind because I was laughing! Glad I found you, can’t wait to watch more of your videos, intriguing stuff here.
The most ambitious crossover event of the year! I think hikikomori is the word Jessi was looking for. This conversation illuminated for me the ways in which the loner archetype is reactive and the hermit archetype is proactive.
"What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?" Arthur Fleck (Joker) is my favourite pop culture portrayal of the loner. I think he epitomises it. Now I understand why I love and deeply resonate with that movie. Really interesting video 👍
I really felt that I might be the Joker when I saw the movie. Just after the movie came out I had decided to reconnect with my brothers and go out with them more often than just when Mum decided we should all get together, and because I wanted to see Joker I invited my Brothers and one Brother’s female partner to see the movie with me. The character Joker resonated so deeply with me that I started seeing correlations in our lives, which to me is proof we can see or be triggered to see synchronicities wherever we want and we can choose our own signs to increase the energy of the destiny that we need and manage our own future in that magical way. 🤡🤡🤟🤘🤡🤡 But I often since I saw Joker see Women that I think might be my Harlequin hahahahaha. It will be interesting to see what happens to the subtext of these Joker synchronisations when I see the movie Birds Of Prey. hahahahaha. Because in the upcoming movie Birds Of Prey the main Female lead character Harlequin violently and powerfully rejects all misogyny and rejects the Joker and other misogynist characters as oppressive Male Patriarchal Figures.
so refreshing to see 2 girls like you having such a concious conversation about a topic like this. normally i hear people (sorry but especially girls) belittle incels. beautiful to see people with compassion and understanding. much love to you
I am so greatful you shared this! :) I have a strong Loner archetype, I've been collaborating with it to integrate it, and it is very supporting to see you talking about it :)
So much to say on this archetype. One I see a lot in me, in both light aspects and shadow aspects. And it's like I've been going back and forth between light and shadow over the years. Great topic for introspection. One thing that I can point to in my loner characteristics is being very choosy of who I want to engage with. On the light side, I can be aware of who I am, who they are and the relation between the two of us and can see where the connection isn't great. I can be more aware of who is worth my time or who isn't. Not always from the get go, but eventually and I remove myself from that. On the negative side, I can be very judgmental of some people who want to engage with me, I can focus on too many little things to pretty much confirm to myself why they aren't good for me. I can be too picky and later on regret not having persevered in a connection for little things and when I felt like my sense of freedom was threatened in some ways. Also, about the show you may be talking about when it comes to the hermit archetype, you could be talking about Below Zero.
This is the reason why meditation for me is absolutely necessary, I get so into my head and I think I know what people are thinking and feeling, I do think that to a great extent I am able to feel other people, (I argue that my professional success is a testament to this) but on the other hand it can often be debilitating, and then I ask myself, do I really know what these people are thinking or am I limiting my view of reality by projecting onto them my idea of their thoughts... Am I an "empath" (a common narrative) and am I a victim of having been born too sensitive? Or am I neurotic and looking for meaning in every expression and every situation, almost like a schizophrenic? I don't know the answer, but luckily the remedy in both cases is to withdraw the consciousness from the outside world and instead try to keep it closer to ones own body, keep the consciousness in the present moment where Im not projecting onto other people. Iv had hermit fantasies, monk fantasies etc... But I now I rather find a way to become "normal", I want to relax and let my personality flow instead of being so tight and anxious, and for this I need meditation, in meditation I can see the narratives that I'm spinning and see that I choose to believe them, granted the choosing is a very unconscious process so meditation is important to see what my mind is doing and how its shaping the way I see the world and interact within it. Iv taken drugs before like XTC and cocaine so I know what it means to be extremely self confident and comfortable in my body, alcohol had the same effect which is why for a long time I would go out every weekend and get very drunk. Its all a state of mind, but to change your state of mind fundamentally so that it becomes your default mode of being is not easy, its literally rewiring the brain. Each time an impulse comes up to think this or that you must catch it and rewrite it in your mind, you can only do this if you are able to see the inner mechanisms of the mind from an impersonal standpoint, if you cannot split yourself from the thoughts you simply go along with them, a whole life wasted to a being which was playing out its conditioning rather than creating a wonderful world each moment of consciousness.
I too sometimes accidentally exaggerate my ability to read what someone is thinking, but I think that as long as we stay mindful that we may be reading people wrong some large percentage of the time, it can be a useful exercise in gaining wisdom and intelligence to try to predict the thoughts and motivations of others. Of course if we concentrate better we will connect more and then the complexities of another beings thoughts becomes less important compared to what another being needs and it becomes important to seek internally and externally that which will help them enjoy life and beyond, short term and long term, with purpose and health. That is called active listening, where we compassionately concentrate the skills and love in the mind as much as is healthy on the communication and each other and we become helpful and wise in our interactions without loosing our boundaries.
@Louie Markovitz yeah, thats right, heart to heart but on a light enjoyable level until we are pretty sure the person or being wants to connect more deeply. It can be creepy to go to deep to quickly, but lightly showing we care about people and that we are hip to all sorts of enjoyment on a social level, even if we are introverted. Extroverts can keep their minds quieter in order to crave more social interactions and excitement, and introverts just enjoy a couple of people or one on one because they have a lot of thoughts and observations to deal with internally. I read that somewhere about extroverts and introverts.
I wish I would have found your channel a long time ago. So about 15 years ago when I was in my early twenties, I had a job working 3-12 hr days a week and got 7 days off every other week. I would not leave my apartment for the whole week. I would find myself no longer thinking words and going into some primal mental spaces. I think I understand myself better for it but im glad I'm not isolated anymore
I definitely gravitate to the hermit archetype more than loner. Hermes has always been something of a guide. I appreciate the distinction in this discussion. Also, Vash the Stampede as a fav, that is awesome. Peter Pan (from the novel especially) is a loner and trickster archetype that struck a chord with me since childhood. Thank you both!
I am Asperger. I make a pal, then they sense the aspie in me and are gone. Socially normal and friendly but terribly inept, we are normally a quiet minority who are average to above average intelligence. And so we are odd ducks but law abiding and too get-along to try to avoid the usual rejection. We are forced by non-aspie misunderstanding into loneliness. We are almost all law-abiding, for we grew up slapped silly into subservience.
Potential social rejection? Chinese immortals were reclusive, not dangerous to society or threateningly aggressive. Masters of self consciousness and powerfully resourceful, in being true to their nature, wholeheartedly capable of teaching adepts willing to adapt to normative civic responsibilities. Native American Heyoka empaths, sacred clowns too, withdraw themselves from their village residences, as they struggle with misunderstanding tribal expectations.
Most of society is made up of social groups of some sort any of which that have their own social mores, views and attitudes that the members agree on. So called loners in many cases are simply more independent thinkers who may not feel comfortable buying into the particular social paradigm as defined by any particular group. They want to be defined by their own views and attitudes and not by the limited prescribed standards of a particular group. I'll add that I believe that many people fear not being accepted by a social group and will sacrifice their individuality in order to "fit in". So in affect it is predominately a base line fear that motivates many to subscribe to and ultimately join social groups.
We are all independents by nature, although many will never realize it. But the point is that we NEED social contact as well or things can go horribly wrong. If someone becomes a loner too early in life, they're much more susceptible to the negative aspects of the archetype. Their self-concept isn't solid enough.
@@jboughtin7522 As a possibility, ha! :) I feel for the extroverts, they've never had much of a chance at discovering their unique, independent selves.
I think we all need life balance and you will have better judgement and you will survive better , sometimes you need your own space and sometimes you need to be social , depends sometimes on your meaning have you got one , i chose to be a loner , hermit when i was young and deterioration set in , but i had a bit of luck at my lowest point then got a great meaning , and had then a more moral outlook and i changed for the better , so i would not advise anyone to be a loner unless you really know your own mind , this conversation is very therapeutic for me thank you .
I have always loved this channel, and it is good to see a lay person who is well read in the more mystical aspects of psychology and has such wise ability to put it into practise and map the human psyche in real time. All Praise @The Diamond Net. I would like to say something about this video now... In discussing the loner archetype subtype “incel” or “involuntary celibate,” you neglect to describe possible archetypes of Women men who have the disease of misogyny have developed within to be so way off the mark when it comes to Women. Archetypes are not just there to become, they also are often our projections onto other peoples character from our own psyche, an Archetype of the opposite gender can effect how we socially or romantically interact with that gender. The “incel” or anti feminist “male activist” often has such a rigid “femonazi” archetype that they wrongly project onto almost all Women, and their relationships with Women are distorted by that archetype. I think that there potentially are “male activists” who are not anti feminist, but they are not the problem, it is “male activists” with distorted archetypes of Women within themselves, who automatically judge the character of the Women on their distorted projections. Those men desperately need help from someone with powerful boundaries who will not be effected adversely by the toxicity and those males desperately need to connect to the divine feminine and rebalance the masculine in themselves to not be so bloody defensive all the time of masculinity. Especially wrong is the flaw that makes some of these “male activists” defend that form of masculinity which is really toxic masculinity.
Very well said. I wanted to go into this in the video but it would have been too much of a sidetrack to start digging into Anima issues. The reason why men (and sometimes women) with a misogynistic lean end up that way is because of rejection of the Anima and subsequent possession. And that’s why there is an equally strong desire to both hate and love women. It is this denigration/sacrilization pattern that play out internally. Where the man resists his feminine side and it gets angry and grabs control of him. And it makes him put women up on a pedestal that he then seeks to drag down off of her pedestal. He wants nothing more than connection with a woman, but hates that women ( really the Anima) has so much power over him. And she rejects him like he has rejected her and projects her wrathful face onto women as a whole group, who then garners the projection of all that internal turmoil. And it’s a vicious cycle. And it begins with the repression of the feminine side of a man. This is why there are so many male suicides and why men often don’t seek help and try to hide emotions. Not such a fun ride. But it also sucks to be on the receiving end.
@@TheDiamondNet you put it so well. I also see that there is an initiation into the feminine divine early in the life of the male in which a vast kingdom of patriarchy opens up before the young male as a great Temptation and he chooses either to respect the matriarchal line from his Mother all the way back through his female ancestors and thus rejects the illusionary kingdom of patriarchy or he divides himself in a schizophrenic way down the middle, rejecting the power of the feminine, which is half his soul, and in that way fails the initiation and until he can bring about the return to the destiny initiation so that he can choose more wisely this time, until then he is lost, torn in two down the gender divide rejecting half his soul and spirit, fighting feminism and gender equality, fighting as part of an “army” that has only half the size of the gender equality activists due to rejecting half the human race.
Very accurate. But I will say, from personal experience that it’s easy for women to fall into too. At age 10, I cast out the feminine and dealt with both similar and different woes than men typically do. And then I experienced the Feminine in its full depth and power and it was home. So, I’ve been working myself back into alignment with the feminine for 10 years, after 10 years of thinking the repression was a good thing because I deemed the feminine weak and myself strong. And I scratched and clawed to run away and avoid feelings of inferiority from my wounded femininity. I still have a lot of wounds here. But I’ve done a lot of work on this one.
@@TheDiamondNet there are Women individuals within the divine feminine network of humanity (and possibly all gendered animals) that step out of their traditional roles to study the masculine from a psychological or spiritual level. Sometimes those Women are frightened by what they see and sometimes they are become compassionate for the struggles of the masculine and sometimes they are able to bring vital intelligence back to the struggle for equality that really most often makes things better for both Women and Men. For instance often females who are tomboys for long periods of time are better able to set boundaries for their friendships and relationships with males and they I believe more often are able to fit in with guys as much as with gals. The traditional role division between males and females can create an artificial and unhealthy sexual tension, even if sometimes when the two genders come close there is clumsy sexual tensions too, that tension is unhealthy because it causes so much misunderstanding when there is only apelike understanding of consent, even though it is natural in the sense of fertility, the problem is that the two seperate gender personalities never really become close enough for excellent tribal social ties unless fertility signals are not triggers for inappropriate behaviour. That is why so many Women enjoy the company of homosexual men, because they can get to know the personalities of men without worrying so much about inappropriate sexual triggers. If we are confessing for the sake of psychological enlightenment, I was usually (whilst growing up and as an adult too) able to discuss a few complex feminist ideas but failed at my 2 relationships with Women because I had in my early childhood witnessed a rape and had some issues around sex which were quite disturbing and never really had friends who were female even though my male friends did have platonic girl friends. I was messed up about sex and that kind of translated into me becoming toxic in my relationships. I haven’t had a romantic relationship for 20 years and I am only 44 but I wouldn’t call myself an incel, I just was diagnosed with schizophrenia 20 years ago and became morbidly obese, unmotivated and long term unemployed because of the medication and have felt so unattractive I just haven’t looked for a romantic partner. I do dearly miss the company of a relationship, even 20 years later, but I would just die if I screwed up as badly as I did before.
@@TheDiamondNet to many Women Anima archetypal projections by males are distorted by the commercial pimping of advertising and of soft and hard porn that uses Women’s bodies in overtly sexually attractive ways just to make money for the people hiring the models or porn stars. It is a real pity because the sexual liberation movement of the 60s was starting to free people of repressive ideas about beauty and sex and nudity and the body, but the media and public image of the body both nude and clothed was seized by the pimps and greedy merchant classes and made perverse in many ways, made artificially and excessively alluring way before humankind was ready. There needed to be a longer period of returning to wise teaching of the innocence of nudity and the body and even the playful innocence of being alluring in my understanding of contemporary attitudes to Women’s bodies. I mean alluring should be fun, it should not be so dangerous and we do not teach our boys and men well enough if they become dangerous or triggered to monkey like sex urges when they feel like being sexual or when a Woman or Girl is playing at being divinely alluring. Consent is everything and non-consensual sex is abuse. A naturally respectful yet honest, nurturing attitude needed to be established as the foundation for the development of the Anima archetypal projections about Women used by male people and that can be brought about by remembering and nurturing the truth of that every male is 50% female in their genes. Of course females are not all sugar and spice and everything nice, there are oppressive females and sexually aggressive females too, but the toxic behaviour of that side of the psyche more often comes from male people in the real world. Maybe because Women often feel fiction and fantasy more deeply and emotionally and explore the good and the bad of it much more deeply whereas the male believes innately that they may have to hunt and kill and go to war in their future so they are innately less sensitive to brutality unless they get in touch with their divine feminine. That connection to the divine feminine in a male is what allows them to know when to protect or hunt and when to nurture and work and remain safe in a way that is socially safe for the tribe and other tribes that may really be allies until paranoia creates conflict. Things were starting to get better than the repressive religion based morality and people were becoming innocent about the body again but something went wrong in the battle to decrease censorship and the pimps took over. It is ok for people who are not confused sexually because they can be more street smart in developing their sexual fantasy whilst also learning about consent, but people who are screwed up already can be quite damaged by porn or commercial depictions of the “body beautiful.“ Do you agree @The Diamond Net?
Zuko is an example of a loner. Someone rejected by his society the fire nation. He was lost throughout the whole show until he found his purpose to help Aang defeat the fire Lord
Being a loner is probably partly a result of your temperament and the interests you have that create the lifestyle you lead. I mean, if you are a introvert then you are basically wired to enjoy being alone. Therefore, as we go towards what we enjoy and away from what gives us pain, you can see how being highly introverted will make you predisposed to be a loner. If on top of that, you like things like writing and running etc., activities that you normally do by yourself, then you can see how these kinds of interests will create a lifestyle whereby you live alone or just seem to naturally enjoy your own company. The problem with being a loner is dealing with the societal expectation for you to be pro-social and the other problem is to do the work in your mind palace that's required to fully accept yourself when you do not fit the norm. The key to happiness as a loner is to radically accept yourself and the choices you've made and engage with the world in an authentic way, to live out your truth.
I like being a loner cuz I can train both physically and visually qithout distractions. I do like to search for truth hence why I'm watching this video it does hender me bcuz it led me to not particularly be able to articulate what I want to say to others or really socialize with others. I think I'm more of the hermit type cuz I would like to live a life I want but I also wanna be a part of society.
I've identified with or rather fallen into the loner archetype since a very young age. Now, at 22, i seem to have an extremely conflicting relationship with this coping mechanism that seems so ingrained in me. I've been trying to truly accept the positive things this identity has brought into my life (music, artistry, connection with very like-minded people). but i still, so often, find myself drained by a recurrent fear of missing out and the idea that in order to grow, i need to confront myself to groups of people that do not always resemble me on such a deep level (even though I don't feel at ease or "free" in such situations) this video has so much precious insight on this topic!
@@hannagorani1733 Hi Hanna, I know this is an old comment, just wanted to say that I am currently going through the same thought. I am a uni student. I enjoy solitude and tend to work on my goals and interest mostly. Although, I consistently feel like I am not connecting with people and sort of limiting myself and as uni is the place where I have the highest chance to make friends.I fail at making friends as I don't find much in people I could relate to(as our interests don't match) If possible I would like to hear your regard on this now that it has been two years since your comment.
@@sfyn3496 hi! oh thank you so much for bringing me back to the moment where I wrote this comment, as things have changed as much as they have somewhat remained the same fundamentally.. I have definitely made consistent efforts to get out of my way and learn how to socialise with people that are different from me (outside of my small group of like-minded friends). I have to admit it's still quite a bit of effort to socialise in such a way but it has definitely taught me some things about the scope of my humanity and that of others. Extending my attention to those I wouldn't be naturally interested in is a bit like exercising a muscle. It's interesting but I don't think there's anything wrong with being an introvert and having your specific interests and deepening into that
The incel subject is an intersting one. I think it's important to distinguish the initial foundation experience of suffering from the consequent psychological distortions. The "incel community" came into existence because there were a large number of individuals who had a common experience and shared a particular interpretation of that experience. The internet allowed them to connect with each other, and they echoed and amplified this interpretation back to each other. This is how it came to be so extremely pathological. But before this exaggerated, extreme, pathological culture was ever created, there was already a group of men who had experienced persistent sexual rejection. I wonder about the origins of this experience of rejection. The causes could be social, cultural, psychological... The issue of whether, or to what degree, it is a self-created suffering is complex, and leads to many other interesting questions.
@@scottkraft1062 Thank you for the recommendation. I believe I've stumbled across this book before on Amazon. It had many reviews that attested to it's exceptional insight.
I'm both of these, since early childhood :) The dark depths are like a Black Hole, a bit like what that woman from underground bases said about the Black Goo. Things that triangulate trap, iron barrier and deterministic; "if nothing else, even at defeat if i can't wield power, if nothing else at least i managed to waste a lot of your time." And time is the most valuable currency; you can make other things back but you can never get your time back. But also, boredom can lead to new discoveries of wonderful things. Creativity thrives on boredom. Even just walking the streets with a camera in your hand can open one's eyes to a world of beauty invisible to others. Our base nature gets the best of us, and can bring out the worst in us. Lower nature is the Story of the Fall, almost
The Buddha would be a good example, however most people do not go as deep into a specific field, as Buddha did. Even a "starving artist" type, still wants to be noticed and get some fame from their art.
@@drop_messages6226 the need for validation never goes away, nothing is real until other acknowledge it. Perception is reality, hence the need to shape how others perceive you and ur contributions to ‘society’
On the topic of the whole Intel thing, I would suggest checking out the rise of attention towards Red Pill and Black Pill communities, especially on youtube. It's much more than just the superficial level, for instance people who express their troubles with in the Forever Alone position is much more of wanting an actual companion, not a trophy wife or something like that. Their situations aren't due to lack of trying or being surface level in terms of desires, but by the larger percentage of women desiring the top 20% of men. Much of it is based instinctual and social factors such as looks, height, social status/hierarchy, income, and being desired by other women. Going into the truth about the realities that men face is much darker and depressing when looked at deeper. Personally, I've found it to be disheartening seeing this happen with a lot of men, and in some cases myself, not due to looks but being, considerably, a loner. Not many people aren't aware of the subliminal things that are in the undertow of life and the human psyche, and often difficult to undergo, so the moment I bring these things up others tend to feel a sense of pain and ignorance. Telling them certain truths leaves them pushing you away because people like the illusions they've built for the purpose of living sedated. The thing is in my case it isn't and of the main factors women look out for like looks and social status, but personality and being deeper into understanding what it is to be a well developed individual. I guess you could say I'm sort of an old man and everyone else in my generation prefer to hang into the crowds and their norms. It's hard to stand alone in this area and I know that a lot of men go through this sort of separation wit not just women, but people in general. Much of what I've experienced and seen in others is a sense of men being expendable human doings rather than human beings, leaving our emotional, physical and mental states on the back burner with little to no attention being paid to. The sad thing is, is seeing it happen to my friends as we all get older and knowing that my own has been on the extreme end due to forced isolation because of facing autoimmune disease for about half my life and it gaining intensity in the past 3 years, but just the separation from close relations alone kills you as time goes on. It's easier to accept my own struggle, but to see your friends go through much of the same hurts deeply. Anyways, the pains we all go through are so god damn deep and it is the need for genuine connection, especially with the opposite sex. I know had I not had dreams of my own Anima and feeling that I have a purpose, to have a connection with an SO there who is complimentary to me, I would be in a much darker state, or perhaps dead, possibly by my own hand or the unconscious desire for someone else to finish the deed. But all in all, the struggle is very much real. But i appreciate the work you've put out, it's been helpful along the way, thank you.
I am familiar with them quite a bit. It tends to stem from very low self-esteem and false beliefs about reality based on a misunderstanding of female sexuality. But deeper than that it is an extreme form of Anima possession, where it feels like women (particularly women who resemble aesthetic ideals) are up on a pedestal and have all the power. So, they seek to drag women down from the imaginary pedestal that the Anima possession creates. And they cherry pick realities to ignore and recognize because the self flagellation becomes a habit.
Also, what you must understand is that I do understand these feelings. I have felt this way before. I was a very romantically precocious child, and no boys ever liked me back. And I thought I was behind everyone else. So, I would sit in my room as a five year old thinking that if a scary old man wanted to marry me right now, I’d have to say yes because no one was ever going to be interested in me. And that belief persisted until puberty. I even used to think that if I opened up a store like a Walmart, no one would want to buy from it just for the fact that I own it.
@@TheDiamondNet this is true. I've seen this in myself growing up, and I easily see it in these individuals now. It upsets me whenever I recognize these things and can't help but get annoyed. I know I can't tell these kinds people about these things because they're already too set in their ways, but the only ones I can ever tell are the ones closest to me. That at least leaves me feeling some relief from this whole situation. Unfortunately, almost all of this will never be sorted out, so then we have ourselves to work on. Do only what you can.
@@TheDiamondNet That is intense, honestly. I'm not sure of other people, but for myself I do feel that things will play out as they should. I think its mostly impatience and fear getting in the way of me being able to see whatever may be coming towards me clearly.
So I empathize with Incels and have experienced similar feelings on the inside. But the only way out is letting go of limiting beliefs and seeing reality for what it is. Women go for their match... not the top 20%. Tinder and other dating websites only reflect that because of the nature of the medium... not human nature. Women’s intuition can’t work on a dating website, so they have to make due with looking at the profile and weighing pros and cons logically. But that’s not the way female sexuality actually works. It’s just an adaptation for the medium. So as long as a man is seeking his match, he should be able to establish a relationship. I mean, look around you. Are only 20% of men coupled up? No. Do those 100% of women pair bond only with 20% of men. Last I checked, it’s rare for a man to have 5 girlfriends. So, internet socialization is not true same as actual socialization. And what women are really attracted to in men is a matching essence. So, if men talk to women, they will eventually find a woman (plenty really) who are interested in them. They just have to go and socialize and experience the reality of spending time with women who are cut from the same cloth as them.
Just so I understand, we are talking about someone with no friends (is okay with that) and is not dangerous ( someone like Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver, I consider deeply anti-social, even before he murders anyone). I consider myself a harmless loner. I had a lot of freedom as a kid (but not much supervision). One of my favorite things to do, was to go to the public library. I could read, be on their computer and I did not have to interact with people talking ot the librarian, when checking out the books. Someone might say, "that just means you are shy, you need to go out and make friends", but I disagree. I never felt lonely, I do not mind going to movies by myself and even in college, I often turned down social invitations because I think of socializing as something to do once in a great while. I can go a whole month, 2 months even without social interaction. Then, that I might go and have lunch with a family member. A ratio of 40 days of solitude, to 1 afternoon of social interaction. Early on, you mentioned, most people are social creatures, and I agree. I was not socialized in the tradional sense, I was "left to my own devices". As an adult, I can appreciate, my world view is wired differently, its is "normal for me to be alone" just as it might be normal for somone else to have many friends and atleat one social activity a week (not to mention, talking to co workers, family members, dinner with their spouse).
She missed the part where she should have classified the insells? Incells? As a margonalized group because if she's showing her "victimizationhood" she needs to address her shadow self and admit she is pushing out the same "aggressive" behaviors
The loner is still someone who lives within the society and engages in the society but they forego social connections... either by choice or because of ostracism. The Hermit is someone who goes separate from the society and maybe even lives alone. And the Hermit does so to become more receptive to divine insight.
Perhaps those you cal l loners and hermits seek coexistence with social groups rather than being incorporated into one. Introverted types are more seeking of the approval of individuals rather than groups (which enforce beliefs and behaviors). This is not a pathology. On the contrary, history is replete with examples of the dangers of social conformity (the madness of crowds). Perhaps deriving one’s sense of self-worth based on the acceptance of groups is the real pathology.
Not sure if this completely fits in, but to add a male could be a "loner" yet be very attractive and opt for women who are a level 2 to fulfil their desire of being seen as hot. I coached a guy who had this complex years ago, he had a very unattractive mother. He explained how if he was to fulfil women who saw him as a level 10 it would satisfy his sense of masculinity.
Every person has the need to connect, even the loner is affected by his lifestyle, of course he can spend a lot more time alone compared to the average person, but it also affects his mental health, its like a two edged sword.
I suspect that you might be guilty of projecting one archetype onto another because you cannot phantom what that other archetype might feel like and instead you replaces it with what you know what is like to be, namely your own archetype.
"betrayal of the loner" ? I am confused how the word betrayal works here … is the loner betraying society? or in a sense of things loners take as betrayal... ?
its funny you note your love for trigun........alot of Anime are packed with Archetypal reference the Japanese and their culture is highly connected to archetypal reverence still, they haven't really forsaked it ever they modernized well with it. as well as modern comic book writers....although im sure some of them are fully aware of what they are doing. like the latest hickman run of X men.....the X-men have their own planet now for mutants called "krakoa" where they are building a philosophy for themselves and a way of life....and it's playing itself out over a span of centuries and there is play with time and space and different time periods. lol he's doing a fantastic work, but there is one panel where he shows the entire council of krakoa and it's sectioned into seats of 3 in a circle perfectly representing triplicity.....so pop culture is full of the real references. Silence is very golden though, because people Like to ONLY look at the story for what it is, thinking there is nothing outside of that. lol it's funny in a way.
If either of you should (ever) be single, I figured out your next boyfriends: Emerald - the Incredible Hulk Jessi - Shams Tabrizi (but I almost cried when you said the Steppenwolf!)
Loners are dangerous for society because they tend not to cooperate? Sure, but you cannot make loners go to war with a smile on the face. What is perceived as a negative aspect for one are positive for the other. You can also view this as complementary aspects as opposed to opposites; the community needs the loner to steer up the community now and then since everyone else only will agrees that everything is fine, even when it is not. A leader is often a loner because it takes a loner to become a leader for new ideas, but once the idea is in place you better replace the loner with a more cooperative leader. ;-) I also feel you are making some projections about the loner archetype. First you describing the archetype, then you describe this loner as not wanting to be alone. This is not the loner archetype - this is a forced loner you are talking about and you seems not to be able to phantom what a real loner feels like being - and maybe we don't know because there are no real loners around to tell us about it. :D
If someone "really wants to fit in but can't" and "are thus forced into becoming a loner," I wouldn't frame it like that. To me, life throws all sorts of things at all sorts of people. You should take the path that is the most blatant and that you believe in. If you are being thrust into the loner architype, embrace it, and ride the wave until the end. There will multiple waves in life. I guess this is like the Taoist path of least resistance. admit when something is not working and figure out what wave you are currently riding. I liked your example of incels. maybe instead of pegging their entire worth on trying to smash bitches they should realize that it is a highly resistant path and focus on whatever they can do. Isaac newton died a voluntary virgin for example. I doubt that he ever felt as though he couldn't get a women or resentful towards them, he just rode the wave of mathematics because it was right in front of him
I like the taoist idea of the path of least resistance ! But I've also often considered that to be a slightly dangerous approach, as we might spend a lifetime avoiding discomfort and therefore miss out on a more holistic human experience. For example, if its easier for you to isolate rather than socialize, then for a few years you might choose that path and feel good about it. But I believe that at some point you might cement certain areas of your life in an under evolved state and potentially end up feeling stuck or dissatisfied due to that choice. Just some food for thought...
I'm becoming sure the shadow feminine (animus) is the chaos in the 'men-children of westworld', does that make sense? Men don't say man up, it's a playground. That would mean your expectation of masculinity is way off, I see that mforce in w through sexuality, in most minorities/exotics, underdogs/forgotten, don't get to this place and stop discovering. I know most men play games for sexual gratification, if the society wasn't bias, why would we need to convince, why do we have a preference? Even the mystic tattoo'd yogi's are doing it, sorry. You say we are wrong, I say your right. I am a database, growing and dying, with haste, contemplate.
The guest speaker is a postmodernist notice how she can't create distinctions in her speech. They don't understand the different levels of development. This is super reductionist.
I disagree. I think she has a strong awareness of what causes Inceldom. And it isn't a surface level argument like "Incels bad" or something like that. We didn't speak of the Anima in the video because it was about the loner, but that's the root cause of the Incel problem. And Incels in particular are a clear case of the Eve stage of Anima possession. But there is certainly an unhealthy loner archetype possession in Incels, which is very relevant to the topic of Incels. Also, if you were a woman you wouldn't be a very big fan of Incels either. And this would be a natural aversion, not from any idealogical roots. Imagine if there were a huge group of women out there dehumanizing you and reducing you to your sexuality and looks. You probably would't like it regardless of what the cause is. It still salts deep wounds, either way you slice it. That said, there is a lot that goes into the psychology of why someone ends up clinging to such a worldview... and sexism in general. And there's a huge number of guys on this spectrum. So, it's a systemic issue 100%, and it's based in how men are expected to not have a feminine side... which causes many problems for them, including but not limited to misogyny. And the root of that systemic issue is the societal repression of femininity/Yin in men and society in general. We expect men to only be masculine. So, they often expected not to be emotional creatures or have any emotional needs. And showing vulnerability tends to be met with disdain and judgment from the world. And they get the message "Suck it up buttercup." And it becomes the worst thing in the world to be perceived as being like a woman... which is why the antagonism toward women comes up. They fear it in themselves and express it outwardly. This is why men commit suicide a lot more and are more likely to experience isolation and demonization. So, feminine repression is a really big problem.
At different levels of psychological development we flip between the "I" and the "WE", you are looking at it from positive/negative and I'm assuming when you address the negative you are talking about sociopathy? Do you think collective groups can also have/hold the "loner" archetype?
Check out our collaboration on The Trickster Archetype... th-cam.com/video/y-r50KmQdPM/w-d-xo.html
I need to be in my solitude to be able to operate normally in a daily social setting! I like being in my solitude.
Amen!
I'm basically a hermit INFP .I do sense how i'm different but i'm also ok with it. I have been in relationships and have children and good friends too, and plenty of options to become more social than i am, but it can feel overwhelming. I'm also occupied with nature and conservation, along with being interested in social science, and world affair and so on. I love your videos and interesting info. Thank you very much
I have the loner in me. Especially when you mentioned exhibitionist tendencies, I'm a 17 year old high school girl and I have fantasies of appearing "mysterious" and "magnetic" to people. It feels like I can't express myself to others on an intimate level, so I express myself as a "self publicist". It is good in the sense that it drives me to develop my persona more creatively.
But people are not going to be watching and thinking about me always, and I will eventually be left out because I didn't try to initiate any real intimacy with people.
thats literally me
Do you feel judged?
My goodness, this is such an insightful and deep understanding. Thank you, I’m feeling the same way
This was excellent! I was just researching avoidant relationship interactions this morning so watching this afterwards was fascinating. Had my earbuds in and when you said “Schmalzy Edward Cullen vibe” I think my hubby thought I lost my mind because I was laughing! Glad I found you, can’t wait to watch more of your videos, intriguing stuff here.
The most ambitious crossover event of the year! I think hikikomori is the word Jessi was looking for. This conversation illuminated for me the ways in which the loner archetype is reactive and the hermit archetype is proactive.
"What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?"
Arthur Fleck (Joker) is my favourite pop culture portrayal of the loner. I think he epitomises it.
Now I understand why I love and deeply resonate with that movie.
Really interesting video 👍
I loved that movie too. I considered him when I was deciding on my favorite.
I really felt that I might be the Joker when I saw the movie. Just after the movie came out I had decided to reconnect with my brothers and go out with them more often than just when Mum decided we should all get together, and because I wanted to see Joker I invited my Brothers and one Brother’s female partner to see the movie with me.
The character Joker resonated so deeply with me that I started seeing correlations in our lives, which to me is proof we can see or be triggered to see synchronicities wherever we want and we can choose our own signs to increase the energy of the destiny that we need and manage our own future in that magical way. 🤡🤡🤟🤘🤡🤡
But I often since I saw Joker see Women that I think might be my Harlequin hahahahaha. It will be interesting to see what happens to the subtext of these Joker synchronisations when I see the movie Birds Of Prey. hahahahaha. Because in the upcoming movie Birds Of Prey the main Female lead character Harlequin violently and powerfully rejects all misogyny and rejects the Joker and other misogynist characters as oppressive Male Patriarchal Figures.
so refreshing to see 2 girls like you having such a concious conversation about a topic like this. normally i hear people (sorry but especially girls) belittle incels. beautiful to see people with compassion and understanding. much love to you
I am so greatful you shared this! :) I have a strong Loner archetype, I've been collaborating with it to integrate it, and it is very supporting to see you talking about it :)
So much to say on this archetype. One I see a lot in me, in both light aspects and shadow aspects. And it's like I've been going back and forth between light and shadow over the years.
Great topic for introspection. One thing that I can point to in my loner characteristics is being very choosy of who I want to engage with. On the light side, I can be aware of who I am, who they are and the relation between the two of us and can see where the connection isn't great. I can be more aware of who is worth my time or who isn't. Not always from the get go, but eventually and I remove myself from that. On the negative side, I can be very judgmental of some people who want to engage with me, I can focus on too many little things to pretty much confirm to myself why they aren't good for me. I can be too picky and later on regret not having persevered in a connection for little things and when I felt like my sense of freedom was threatened in some ways.
Also, about the show you may be talking about when it comes to the hermit archetype, you could be talking about Below Zero.
This is the reason why meditation for me is absolutely necessary, I get so into my head and I think I know what people are thinking and feeling, I do think that to a great extent I am able to feel other people, (I argue that my professional success is a testament to this) but on the other hand it can often be debilitating, and then I ask myself, do I really know what these people are thinking or am I limiting my view of reality by projecting onto them my idea of their thoughts...
Am I an "empath" (a common narrative) and am I a victim of having been born too sensitive? Or am I neurotic and looking for meaning in every expression and every situation, almost like a schizophrenic? I don't know the answer, but luckily the remedy in both cases is to withdraw the consciousness from the outside world and instead try to keep it closer to ones own body, keep the consciousness in the present moment where Im not projecting onto other people.
Iv had hermit fantasies, monk fantasies etc... But I now I rather find a way to become "normal", I want to relax and let my personality flow instead of being so tight and anxious, and for this I need meditation, in meditation I can see the narratives that I'm spinning and see that I choose to believe them, granted the choosing is a very unconscious process so meditation is important to see what my mind is doing and how its shaping the way I see the world and interact within it.
Iv taken drugs before like XTC and cocaine so I know what it means to be extremely self confident and comfortable in my body, alcohol had the same effect which is why for a long time I would go out every weekend and get very drunk. Its all a state of mind, but to change your state of mind fundamentally so that it becomes your default mode of being is not easy, its literally rewiring the brain.
Each time an impulse comes up to think this or that you must catch it and rewrite it in your mind, you can only do this if you are able to see the inner mechanisms of the mind from an impersonal standpoint, if you cannot split yourself from the thoughts you simply go along with them, a whole life wasted to a being which was playing out its conditioning rather than creating a wonderful world each moment of consciousness.
I too sometimes accidentally exaggerate my ability to read what someone is thinking, but I think that as long as we stay mindful that we may be reading people wrong some large percentage of the time, it can be a useful exercise in gaining wisdom and intelligence to try to predict the thoughts and motivations of others.
Of course if we concentrate better we will connect more and then the complexities of another beings thoughts becomes less important compared to what another being needs and it becomes important to seek internally and externally that which will help them enjoy life and beyond, short term and long term, with purpose and health. That is called active listening, where we compassionately concentrate the skills and love in the mind as much as is healthy on the communication and each other and we become helpful and wise in our interactions without loosing our boundaries.
@Louie Markovitz yeah, thats right, heart to heart but on a light enjoyable level until we are pretty sure the person or being wants to connect more deeply. It can be creepy to go to deep to quickly, but lightly showing we care about people and that we are hip to all sorts of enjoyment on a social level, even if we are introverted. Extroverts can keep their minds quieter in order to crave more social interactions and excitement, and introverts just enjoy a couple of people or one on one because they have a lot of thoughts and observations to deal with internally. I read that somewhere about extroverts and introverts.
My story might resonate with you
Wow, so deep and articulate. How did u find this understanding?
I wish I would have found your channel a long time ago. So about 15 years ago when I was in my early twenties, I had a job working 3-12 hr days a week and got 7 days off every other week. I would not leave my apartment for the whole week. I would find myself no longer thinking words and going into some primal mental spaces. I think I understand myself better for it but im glad I'm not isolated anymore
You both ladies are gorgeous inside and out, thank you for sharing this!
Wow Jess! Youre super deep observations on this are starting. Exhibition as defenses. Inviting rejection as a pre-emptive mechanism. Brilliant.
Click the link below for a FREE Shadow Work Visualization Practice!
pages.thediamondnet.org
It seems to me your both full of love , life , and wisdom , its great to hear .
I definitely gravitate to the hermit archetype more than loner. Hermes has always been something of a guide. I appreciate the distinction in this discussion.
Also, Vash the Stampede as a fav, that is awesome. Peter Pan (from the novel especially) is a loner and trickster archetype that struck a chord with me since childhood. Thank you both!
Great job ladies. Important conversation loved it!
I am Asperger. I make a pal, then they sense the aspie in me and are gone.
Socially normal and friendly but terribly inept, we are normally a quiet minority who are average to above average intelligence. And so we are odd ducks but law abiding and too get-along to try to avoid the usual rejection. We are forced by non-aspie misunderstanding into loneliness.
We are almost all law-abiding, for we grew up slapped silly into subservience.
Potential social rejection? Chinese immortals were reclusive, not dangerous to society or threateningly aggressive. Masters of self consciousness and powerfully resourceful, in being true to their nature, wholeheartedly capable of teaching adepts willing to adapt to normative civic responsibilities. Native American Heyoka empaths, sacred clowns too, withdraw themselves from their village residences, as they struggle with misunderstanding tribal expectations.
Couldn't have said it better!
This loner thing is sick what they are saying > Nietzsche? Schopenhauer? This is missing the mark
Very good video!
Amazing talk! Loved this!!!! 🌓💕💕💕🧚🏻
I really needed to hear this. Thank you!
Thank you for this. Exactly what I've been reflecting on lately!
Most of society is made up of social groups of some sort any of which that have their own social mores, views and attitudes that the members agree on. So called loners in many cases are simply more independent thinkers who may not feel comfortable buying into the particular social paradigm as defined by any particular group. They want to be defined by their own views and attitudes and not by the limited prescribed standards of a particular group. I'll add that I believe that many people fear not being accepted by a social group and will sacrifice their individuality in order to "fit in". So in affect it is predominately a base line fear that motivates many to subscribe to and ultimately join social groups.
We are all independents by nature, although many will never realize it. But the point is that we NEED social contact as well or things can go horribly wrong.
If someone becomes a loner too early in life, they're much more susceptible to the negative aspects of the archetype. Their self-concept isn't solid enough.
@@TheDionysianFields I would be inclined to agree with that as a possibility.
@@jboughtin7522 As a possibility, ha! :) I feel for the extroverts, they've never had much of a chance at discovering their unique, independent selves.
@@TheDionysianFields This guy gets it. th-cam.com/video/ZCFI9rNXNYI/w-d-xo.html
Very interesting series! Thanks a lot!
I think we all need life balance and you will have better judgement and you will survive better , sometimes you need your own space and sometimes you need to be social , depends sometimes on your meaning have you got one , i chose to be a loner , hermit when i was young and deterioration set in , but i had a bit of luck at my lowest point then got a great meaning , and had then a more moral outlook and i changed for the better , so i would not advise anyone to be a loner unless you really know your own mind , this conversation is very therapeutic for me thank you .
Jesse is so insightful!! 😭🖤🖤🖤
I love you both! Great collab!
I have always loved this channel, and it is good to see a lay person who is well read in the more mystical aspects of psychology and has such wise ability to put it into practise and map the human psyche in real time. All Praise @The Diamond Net.
I would like to say something about this video now... In discussing the loner archetype subtype “incel” or “involuntary celibate,” you neglect to describe possible archetypes of Women men who have the disease of misogyny have developed within to be so way off the mark when it comes to Women. Archetypes are not just there to become, they also are often our projections onto other peoples character from our own psyche, an Archetype of the opposite gender can effect how we socially or romantically interact with that gender. The “incel” or anti feminist “male activist” often has such a rigid “femonazi” archetype that they wrongly project onto almost all Women, and their relationships with Women are distorted by that archetype.
I think that there potentially are “male activists” who are not anti feminist, but they are not the problem, it is “male activists” with distorted archetypes of Women within themselves, who automatically judge the character of the Women on their distorted projections. Those men desperately need help from someone with powerful boundaries who will not be effected adversely by the toxicity and those males desperately need to connect to the divine feminine and rebalance the masculine in themselves to not be so bloody defensive all the time of masculinity. Especially wrong is the flaw that makes some of these “male activists” defend that form of masculinity which is really toxic masculinity.
Very well said. I wanted to go into this in the video but it would have been too much of a sidetrack to start digging into Anima issues.
The reason why men (and sometimes women) with a misogynistic lean end up that way is because of rejection of the Anima and subsequent possession. And that’s why there is an equally strong desire to both hate and love women. It is this denigration/sacrilization pattern that play out internally. Where the man resists his feminine side and it gets angry and grabs control of him. And it makes him put women up on a pedestal that he then seeks to drag down off of her pedestal.
He wants nothing more than connection with a woman, but hates that women ( really the Anima) has so much power over him. And she rejects him like he has rejected her and projects her wrathful face onto women as a whole group, who then garners the projection of all that internal turmoil.
And it’s a vicious cycle. And it begins with the repression of the feminine side of a man. This is why there are so many male suicides and why men often don’t seek help and try to hide emotions.
Not such a fun ride. But it also sucks to be on the receiving end.
@@TheDiamondNet you put it so well. I also see that there is an initiation into the feminine divine early in the life of the male in which a vast kingdom of patriarchy opens up before the young male as a great Temptation and he chooses either to respect the matriarchal line from his Mother all the way back through his female ancestors and thus rejects the illusionary kingdom of patriarchy or he divides himself in a schizophrenic way down the middle, rejecting the power of the feminine, which is half his soul, and in that way fails the initiation and until he can bring about the return to the destiny initiation so that he can choose more wisely this time, until then he is lost, torn in two down the gender divide rejecting half his soul and spirit, fighting feminism and gender equality, fighting as part of an “army” that has only half the size of the gender equality activists due to rejecting half the human race.
Very accurate. But I will say, from personal experience that it’s easy for women to fall into too. At age 10, I cast out the feminine and dealt with both similar and different woes than men typically do. And then I experienced the Feminine in its full depth and power and it was home. So, I’ve been working myself back into alignment with the feminine for 10 years, after 10 years of thinking the repression was a good thing because I deemed the feminine weak and myself strong. And I scratched and clawed to run away and avoid feelings of inferiority from my wounded femininity. I still have a lot of wounds here. But I’ve done a lot of work on this one.
@@TheDiamondNet there are Women individuals within the divine feminine network of humanity (and possibly all gendered animals) that step out of their traditional roles to study the masculine from a psychological or spiritual level. Sometimes those Women are frightened by what they see and sometimes they are become compassionate for the struggles of the masculine and sometimes they are able to bring vital intelligence back to the struggle for equality that really most often makes things better for both Women and Men. For instance often females who are tomboys for long periods of time are better able to set boundaries for their friendships and relationships with males and they I believe more often are able to fit in with guys as much as with gals.
The traditional role division between males and females can create an artificial and unhealthy sexual tension, even if sometimes when the two genders come close there is clumsy sexual tensions too, that tension is unhealthy because it causes so much misunderstanding when there is only apelike understanding of consent, even though it is natural in the sense of fertility, the problem is that the two seperate gender personalities never really become close enough for excellent tribal social ties unless fertility signals are not triggers for inappropriate behaviour. That is why so many Women enjoy the company of homosexual men, because they can get to know the personalities of men without worrying so much about inappropriate sexual triggers.
If we are confessing for the sake of psychological enlightenment, I was usually (whilst growing up and as an adult too) able to discuss a few complex feminist ideas but failed at my 2 relationships with Women because I had in my early childhood witnessed a rape and had some issues around sex which were quite disturbing and never really had friends who were female even though my male friends did have platonic girl friends. I was messed up about sex and that kind of translated into me becoming toxic in my relationships. I haven’t had a romantic relationship for 20 years and I am only 44 but I wouldn’t call myself an incel, I just was diagnosed with schizophrenia 20 years ago and became morbidly obese, unmotivated and long term unemployed because of the medication and have felt so unattractive I just haven’t looked for a romantic partner. I do dearly miss the company of a relationship, even 20 years later, but I would just die if I screwed up as badly as I did before.
@@TheDiamondNet to many Women Anima archetypal projections by males are distorted by the commercial pimping of advertising and of soft and hard porn that uses Women’s bodies in overtly sexually attractive ways just to make money for the people hiring the models or porn stars.
It is a real pity because the sexual liberation movement of the 60s was starting to free people of repressive ideas about beauty and sex and nudity and the body, but the media and public image of the body both nude and clothed was seized by the pimps and greedy merchant classes and made perverse in many ways, made artificially and excessively alluring way before humankind was ready.
There needed to be a longer period of returning to wise teaching of the innocence of nudity and the body and even the playful innocence of being alluring in my understanding of contemporary attitudes to Women’s bodies. I mean alluring should be fun, it should not be so dangerous and we do not teach our boys and men well enough if they become dangerous or triggered to monkey like sex urges when they feel like being sexual or when a Woman or Girl is playing at being divinely alluring. Consent is everything and non-consensual sex is abuse. A naturally respectful yet honest, nurturing attitude needed to be established as the foundation for the development of the Anima archetypal projections about Women used by male people and that can be brought about by remembering and nurturing the truth of that every male is 50% female in their genes. Of course females are not all sugar and spice and everything nice, there are oppressive females and sexually aggressive females too, but the toxic behaviour of that side of the psyche more often comes from male people in the real world. Maybe because Women often feel fiction and fantasy more deeply and emotionally and explore the good and the bad of it much more deeply whereas the male believes innately that they may have to hunt and kill and go to war in their future so they are innately less sensitive to brutality unless they get in touch with their divine feminine. That connection to the divine feminine in a male is what allows them to know when to protect or hunt and when to nurture and work and remain safe in a way that is socially safe for the tribe and other tribes that may really be allies until paranoia creates conflict.
Things were starting to get better than the repressive religion based morality and people were becoming innocent about the body again but something went wrong in the battle to decrease censorship and the pimps took over.
It is ok for people who are not confused sexually because they can be more street smart in developing their sexual fantasy whilst also learning about consent, but people who are screwed up already can be quite damaged by porn or commercial depictions of the “body beautiful.“
Do you agree @The Diamond Net?
Zuko is an example of a loner. Someone rejected by his society the fire nation. He was lost throughout the whole show until he found his purpose to help Aang defeat the fire Lord
Being a loner is probably partly a result of your temperament and the interests you have that create the lifestyle you lead. I mean, if you are a introvert then you are basically wired to enjoy being alone. Therefore, as we go towards what we enjoy and away from what gives us pain, you can see how being highly introverted will make you predisposed to be a loner. If on top of that, you like things like writing and running etc., activities that you normally do by yourself, then you can see how these kinds of interests will create a lifestyle whereby you live alone or just seem to naturally enjoy your own company. The problem with being a loner is dealing with the societal expectation for you to be pro-social and the other problem is to do the work in your mind palace that's required to fully accept yourself when you do not fit the norm. The key to happiness as a loner is to radically accept yourself and the choices you've made and engage with the world in an authentic way, to live out your truth.
I like being a loner cuz I can train both physically and visually qithout distractions. I do like to search for truth hence why I'm watching this video it does hender me bcuz it led me to not particularly be able to articulate what I want to say to others or really socialize with others. I think I'm more of the hermit type cuz I would like to live a life I want but I also wanna be a part of society.
I loved this video and I love your channel!
you girls are brilliant!!! thank you for the immense wisdom
I've identified with or rather fallen into the loner archetype since a very young age. Now, at 22, i seem to have an extremely conflicting relationship with this coping mechanism that seems so ingrained in me. I've been trying to truly accept the positive things this identity has brought into my life (music, artistry, connection with very like-minded people).
but i still, so often, find myself drained by a recurrent fear of missing out and the idea that in order to grow, i need to confront myself to groups of people that do not always resemble me on such a deep level (even though I don't feel at ease or "free" in such situations)
this video has so much precious insight on this topic!
@@hannagorani1733 Hi Hanna, I know this is an old comment, just wanted to say that I am currently going through the same thought. I am a uni student. I enjoy solitude and tend to work on my goals and interest mostly. Although, I consistently feel like I am not connecting with people and sort of limiting myself and as uni is the place where I have the highest chance to make friends.I fail at making friends as I don't find much in people I could relate to(as our interests don't match) If possible I would like to hear your regard on this now that it has been two years since your comment.
@@sfyn3496 hi! oh thank you so much for bringing me back to the moment where I wrote this comment, as things have changed as much as they have somewhat remained the same fundamentally..
I have definitely made consistent efforts to get out of my way and learn how to socialise with people that are different from me (outside of my small group of like-minded friends). I have to admit it's still quite a bit of effort to socialise in such a way but it has definitely taught me some things about the scope of my humanity and that of others. Extending my attention to those I wouldn't be naturally interested in is a bit like exercising a muscle. It's interesting but I don't think there's anything wrong with being an introvert and having your specific interests and deepening into that
The incel subject is an intersting one. I think it's important to distinguish the initial foundation experience of suffering from the consequent psychological distortions.
The "incel community" came into existence because there were a large number of individuals who had a common experience and shared a particular interpretation of that experience. The internet allowed them to connect with each other, and they echoed and amplified this interpretation back to each other. This is how it came to be so extremely pathological.
But before this exaggerated, extreme, pathological culture was ever created, there was already a group of men who had experienced persistent sexual rejection.
I wonder about the origins of this experience of rejection. The causes could be social, cultural, psychological... The issue of whether, or to what degree, it is a self-created suffering is complex, and leads to many other interesting questions.
Read Ernest Becker's book The Birth and Death of Meaning answers a lot of your questions
@@scottkraft1062 Thank you for the recommendation. I believe I've stumbled across this book before on Amazon. It had many reviews that attested to it's exceptional insight.
I'm both of these, since early childhood :)
The dark depths are like a Black Hole, a bit like what that woman from underground bases said about the Black Goo. Things that triangulate trap, iron barrier and deterministic; "if nothing else, even at defeat if i can't wield power, if nothing else at least i managed to waste a lot of your time."
And time is the most valuable currency; you can make other things back but you can never get your time back.
But also, boredom can lead to new discoveries of wonderful things. Creativity thrives on boredom. Even just walking the streets with a camera in your hand can open one's eyes to a world of beauty invisible to others. Our base nature gets the best of us, and can bring out the worst in us. Lower nature is the Story of the Fall, almost
I'm a Trickster Loner and I Love this.
Two of my favorites. :)
What about the Loner-Prodigy “sub-archetype”? Those isolated by their devotion to a talent or skill?? 😮
That’s a good one! Like in “A Beautiful Mind”.
The Buddha would be a good example, however most people do not go as deep into a specific field, as Buddha did.
Even a "starving artist" type, still wants to be noticed and get some fame from their art.
So true!
@@drop_messages6226 the need for validation never goes away, nothing is real until other acknowledge it. Perception is reality, hence the need to shape how others perceive you and ur contributions to ‘society’
Loner < hermit < shaman
Wonderful Day Dreams
On the topic of the whole Intel thing, I would suggest checking out the rise of attention towards Red Pill and Black Pill communities, especially on youtube. It's much more than just the superficial level, for instance people who express their troubles with in the Forever Alone position is much more of wanting an actual companion, not a trophy wife or something like that. Their situations aren't due to lack of trying or being surface level in terms of desires, but by the larger percentage of women desiring the top 20% of men. Much of it is based instinctual and social factors such as looks, height, social status/hierarchy, income, and being desired by other women. Going into the truth about the realities that men face is much darker and depressing when looked at deeper. Personally, I've found it to be disheartening seeing this happen with a lot of men, and in some cases myself, not due to looks but being, considerably, a loner. Not many people aren't aware of the subliminal things that are in the undertow of life and the human psyche, and often difficult to undergo, so the moment I bring these things up others tend to feel a sense of pain and ignorance. Telling them certain truths leaves them pushing you away because people like the illusions they've built for the purpose of living sedated. The thing is in my case it isn't and of the main factors women look out for like looks and social status, but personality and being deeper into understanding what it is to be a well developed individual. I guess you could say I'm sort of an old man and everyone else in my generation prefer to hang into the crowds and their norms. It's hard to stand alone in this area and I know that a lot of men go through this sort of separation wit not just women, but people in general. Much of what I've experienced and seen in others is a sense of men being expendable human doings rather than human beings, leaving our emotional, physical and mental states on the back burner with little to no attention being paid to. The sad thing is, is seeing it happen to my friends as we all get older and knowing that my own has been on the extreme end due to forced isolation because of facing autoimmune disease for about half my life and it gaining intensity in the past 3 years, but just the separation from close relations alone kills you as time goes on. It's easier to accept my own struggle, but to see your friends go through much of the same hurts deeply. Anyways, the pains we all go through are so god damn deep and it is the need for genuine connection, especially with the opposite sex. I know had I not had dreams of my own Anima and feeling that I have a purpose, to have a connection with an SO there who is complimentary to me, I would be in a much darker state, or perhaps dead, possibly by my own hand or the unconscious desire for someone else to finish the deed. But all in all, the struggle is very much real. But i appreciate the work you've put out, it's been helpful along the way, thank you.
I am familiar with them quite a bit. It tends to stem from very low self-esteem and false beliefs about reality based on a misunderstanding of female sexuality. But deeper than that it is an extreme form of Anima possession, where it feels like women (particularly women who resemble aesthetic ideals) are up on a pedestal and have all the power. So, they seek to drag women down from the imaginary pedestal that the Anima possession creates. And they cherry pick realities to ignore and recognize because the self flagellation becomes a habit.
Also, what you must understand is that I do understand these feelings. I have felt this way before. I was a very romantically precocious child, and no boys ever liked me back. And I thought I was behind everyone else. So, I would sit in my room as a five year old thinking that if a scary old man wanted to marry me right now, I’d have to say yes because no one was ever going to be interested in me. And that belief persisted until puberty. I even used to think that if I opened up a store like a Walmart, no one would want to buy from it just for the fact that I own it.
@@TheDiamondNet this is true. I've seen this in myself growing up, and I easily see it in these individuals now. It upsets me whenever I recognize these things and can't help but get annoyed. I know I can't tell these kinds people about these things because they're already too set in their ways, but the only ones I can ever tell are the ones closest to me. That at least leaves me feeling some relief from this whole situation. Unfortunately, almost all of this will never be sorted out, so then we have ourselves to work on. Do only what you can.
@@TheDiamondNet That is intense, honestly. I'm not sure of other people, but for myself I do feel that things will play out as they should. I think its mostly impatience and fear getting in the way of me being able to see whatever may be coming towards me clearly.
So I empathize with Incels and have experienced similar feelings on the inside. But the only way out is letting go of limiting beliefs and seeing reality for what it is. Women go for their match... not the top 20%. Tinder and other dating websites only reflect that because of the nature of the medium... not human nature. Women’s intuition can’t work on a dating website, so they have to make due with looking at the profile and weighing pros and cons logically. But that’s not the way female sexuality actually works. It’s just an adaptation for the medium. So as long as a man is seeking his match, he should be able to establish a relationship. I mean, look around you. Are only 20% of men coupled up? No. Do those 100% of women pair bond only with 20% of men. Last I checked, it’s rare for a man to have 5 girlfriends. So, internet socialization is not true same as actual socialization.
And what women are really attracted to in men is a matching essence. So, if men talk to women, they will eventually find a woman (plenty really) who are interested in them. They just have to go and socialize and experience the reality of spending time with women who are cut from the same cloth as them.
Just so I understand, we are talking about someone with no friends (is okay with that) and is not dangerous ( someone like Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver, I consider deeply anti-social, even before he murders anyone).
I consider myself a harmless loner. I had a lot of freedom as a kid (but not much supervision). One of my favorite things to do, was to go to the public library. I could read, be on their computer and I did not have to interact with people talking ot the librarian, when checking out the books. Someone might say, "that just means you are shy, you need to go out and make friends", but I disagree. I never felt lonely, I do not mind going to movies by myself and even in college, I often turned down social invitations because I think of socializing as something to do once in a great while. I can go a whole month, 2 months even without social interaction. Then, that I might go and have lunch with a family member. A ratio of 40 days of solitude, to 1 afternoon of social interaction.
Early on, you mentioned, most people are social creatures, and I agree. I was not socialized in the tradional sense, I was "left to my own devices". As an adult, I can appreciate, my world view is wired differently, its is "normal for me to be alone" just as it might be normal for somone else to have many friends and atleat one social activity a week (not to mention, talking to co workers, family members, dinner with their spouse).
Ha ha "transitoriness" I like to make up words sometimes too.
She missed the part where she should have classified the insells? Incells? As a margonalized group because if she's showing her "victimizationhood" she needs to address her shadow self and admit she is pushing out the same "aggressive" behaviors
I’m a one man Wolfpack and love it. No regrets.
What is the difference between a Loner and a Hermit?
The loner is still someone who lives within the society and engages in the society but they forego social connections... either by choice or because of ostracism. The Hermit is someone who goes separate from the society and maybe even lives alone. And the Hermit does so to become more receptive to divine insight.
Perhaps those you cal l loners and hermits seek coexistence with social groups rather than being incorporated into one. Introverted types are more seeking of the approval of individuals rather than groups (which enforce beliefs and behaviors). This is not a pathology. On the contrary, history is replete with examples of the dangers of social conformity (the madness of crowds). Perhaps deriving one’s sense of self-worth based on the acceptance of groups is the real pathology.
Well said.
Not sure if this completely fits in, but to add a male could be a "loner" yet be very attractive and opt for women who are a level 2 to fulfil their desire of being seen as hot.
I coached a guy who had this complex years ago, he had a very unattractive mother. He explained how if he was to fulfil women who saw him as a level 10 it would satisfy his sense of masculinity.
💘
If there's a wound then who inflicted it? Listen to what y'all are saying
I am a loner
Hi Hari. Good to see you!
The Diamond Net Hey Emerald! Didn’t think you would remember me. How are you! Loved the video by the way :)
Upon first impression Jessi seems Fe dominant (ENFJ I think). Does anyone know if that is correct?
Every person has the need to connect, even the loner is affected by his lifestyle, of course he can spend a lot more time alone compared to the average person, but it also affects his mental health, its like a two edged sword.
I definitely feel you. For me I think it may have to do with trust issues and settling into this routine
I suspect that you might be guilty of projecting one archetype onto another because you cannot phantom what that other archetype might feel like and instead you replaces it with what you know what is like to be, namely your own archetype.
"betrayal of the loner" ? I am confused how the word betrayal works here … is the loner betraying society? or in a sense of things loners take as betrayal... ?
its funny you note your love for trigun........alot of Anime are packed with Archetypal reference the Japanese and their culture is highly connected to archetypal reverence still, they haven't really forsaked it ever they modernized well with it.
as well as modern comic book writers....although im sure some of them are fully aware of what they are doing. like the latest hickman run of X men.....the X-men have their own planet now for mutants called "krakoa" where they are building a philosophy for themselves and a way of life....and it's playing itself out over a span of centuries and there is play with time and space and different time periods. lol he's doing a fantastic work, but there is one panel where he shows the entire council of krakoa and it's sectioned into seats of 3 in a circle perfectly representing triplicity.....so pop culture is full of the real references. Silence is very golden though, because people Like to ONLY look at the story for what it is, thinking there is nothing outside of that. lol it's funny in a way.
If either of you should (ever) be single, I figured out your next boyfriends:
Emerald - the Incredible Hulk
Jessi - Shams Tabrizi (but I almost cried when you said the Steppenwolf!)
21:00 literally Elliot Rodger
Taxi Driver
I’m definitely the loner archetype 👍🏼
I was the loner in HS
Diamond when your talking about 10s why are you referring to yourself in the 3rd person 😉
Pshh! I’m a straight 2 on a good day! 😀 I can’t even keep mirrors around because they break when I look in them. Waste of money... and dangerous too.
@@TheDiamondNet Did you understand the question? Or did I misunderstand it? Communication can be very confusing in text.
The OP was paying me a nice compliment. But I was making a joke that I was a 2 and break mirrors all the time. Just a bit of self-deprecating humor.
@@Jane_under_a_tree_with_a_book facepalm
@@TheDiamondNet i love that type of humour
I just find other people exhausting. 🤷🏼♂️
Loners are dangerous for society because they tend not to cooperate? Sure, but you cannot make loners go to war with a smile on the face. What is perceived as a negative aspect for one are positive for the other. You can also view this as complementary aspects as opposed to opposites; the community needs the loner to steer up the community now and then since everyone else only will agrees that everything is fine, even when it is not. A leader is often a loner because it takes a loner to become a leader for new ideas, but once the idea is in place you better replace the loner with a more cooperative leader. ;-)
I also feel you are making some projections about the loner archetype. First you describing the archetype, then you describe this loner as not wanting to be alone. This is not the loner archetype - this is a forced loner you are talking about and you seems not to be able to phantom what a real loner feels like being - and maybe we don't know because there are no real loners around to tell us about it. :D
If someone "really wants to fit in but can't" and "are thus forced into becoming a loner," I wouldn't frame it like that. To me, life throws all sorts of things at all sorts of people. You should take the path that is the most blatant and that you believe in. If you are being thrust into the loner architype, embrace it, and ride the wave until the end. There will multiple waves in life. I guess this is like the Taoist path of least resistance. admit when something is not working and figure out what wave you are currently riding. I liked your example of incels. maybe instead of pegging their entire worth on trying to smash bitches they should realize that it is a highly resistant path and focus on whatever they can do. Isaac newton died a voluntary virgin for example. I doubt that he ever felt as though he couldn't get a women or resentful towards them, he just rode the wave of mathematics because it was right in front of him
I like the taoist idea of the path of least resistance ! But I've also often considered that to be a slightly dangerous approach, as we might spend a lifetime avoiding discomfort and therefore miss out on a more holistic human experience. For example, if its easier for you to isolate rather than socialize, then for a few years you might choose that path and feel good about it. But I believe that at some point you might cement certain areas of your life in an under evolved state and potentially end up feeling stuck or dissatisfied due to that choice.
Just some food for thought...
I'm becoming sure the shadow feminine (animus) is the chaos in the 'men-children of westworld', does that make sense? Men don't say man up, it's a playground. That would mean your expectation of masculinity is way off, I see that mforce in w through sexuality, in most minorities/exotics, underdogs/forgotten, don't get to this place and stop discovering. I know most men play games for sexual gratification, if the society wasn't bias, why would we need to convince, why do we have a preference? Even the mystic tattoo'd yogi's are doing it, sorry. You say we are wrong, I say your right. I am a database, growing and dying, with haste, contemplate.
If you think and act like the hoi polloi you are doing something fundamentally wrong, have a great day!!!
The guest speaker is a postmodernist notice how she can't create distinctions in her speech. They don't understand the different levels of development. This is super reductionist.
I disagree. I think she has a strong awareness of what causes Inceldom. And it isn't a surface level argument like "Incels bad" or something like that. We didn't speak of the Anima in the video because it was about the loner, but that's the root cause of the Incel problem. And Incels in particular are a clear case of the Eve stage of Anima possession.
But there is certainly an unhealthy loner archetype possession in Incels, which is very relevant to the topic of Incels.
Also, if you were a woman you wouldn't be a very big fan of Incels either. And this would be a natural aversion, not from any idealogical roots. Imagine if there were a huge group of women out there dehumanizing you and reducing you to your sexuality and looks. You probably would't like it regardless of what the cause is. It still salts deep wounds, either way you slice it.
That said, there is a lot that goes into the psychology of why someone ends up clinging to such a worldview... and sexism in general. And there's a huge number of guys on this spectrum. So, it's a systemic issue 100%, and it's based in how men are expected to not have a feminine side... which causes many problems for them, including but not limited to misogyny.
And the root of that systemic issue is the societal repression of femininity/Yin in men and society in general. We expect men to only be masculine. So, they often expected not to be emotional creatures or have any emotional needs. And showing vulnerability tends to be met with disdain and judgment from the world. And they get the message "Suck it up buttercup." And it becomes the worst thing in the world to be perceived as being like a woman... which is why the antagonism toward women comes up. They fear it in themselves and express it outwardly.
This is why men commit suicide a lot more and are more likely to experience isolation and demonization. So, feminine repression is a really big problem.
@@TheDiamondNet Well it's one reason why men commit suicide more.
At different levels of psychological development we flip between the "I" and the "WE", you are looking at it from positive/negative and I'm assuming when you address the negative you are talking about sociopathy? Do you think collective groups can also have/hold the "loner" archetype?