Sailing is free. But when something breaks you need money. Lots of money. Boats are never reliable like a car can be. Or low maintenance like a car or house.
In my opinion, buy the best and most equipped boat you can afford; any dollar spent on maintenance, improvements and electronics by the previous owner translates in cents in selling price.
However depends on your skill and his skill set . Most PO "upgrades" I find myself redoing as they are hacks .On top Very few people do recent upgrades on a boat they are going to sell so everything is a little tired . My favourite boat is unmolested , factory orriginals and well cared for . No instrument panel with 10 old holes in it , no mystery holes in the deck .
Look for a boat that is consistently and recently sailed. A 20 year old boat that’s sat for a year or 2 can be in much worse condition then a 40 year old boat sailed weekly and maintained.
@@markknoop777 speak with the owner. Speak to neighbouring boat owners. Ask the Marina. You can check registration dates. There will be other signs- sticky winches, old bottom paint, old corroded zincs, mood and mildew, rotten lines.
Bought a 23ft. trailer sailer with only a week of experience with a laser as a kid. My wife and I didn't even know if it had everything we needed to sail. Got lucky and it floated, the honda motor ran, and the rigging and sails worked! We have fixed everything that was broken or breaking and sailed the river and a lake for some summer weekends. Took ASA101 in key largo, and also 103 in Mobile Bay, my wife went hard in 23 knots of wind she ran a big Beneteau 40 to 9knots with a grin on her face. We bought a Hunter 37c last year and have been working on that boat since. We aim to be back on the water in the next few months and then heading down the tombigbee and out to salt water for the first time in the boats life! I'm pouring every hour and dollar into it. I'm learning only slightly faster that I am getting it all done. You videos have really helped inspire me this far and we still have a long way to go and so many things to learn. Thank you for what you do.
If you're anywhere near Cuba Landing Marina along the Tennessee River... You have a fellow sailor with a similar goal, who's also a marine mechanic happy to lend a hand. Currently working on a 73' Columbia 30' as a liveaboard for me and the Mrs. Just curious... did you do your ASA @ Key Lime in Key Largo? I was Paul's marine mechanic last season before moving to tech in Nashville.
@@LadyKSailing Actually bud, the reply was to the fellow posting. He referred to key largo for his asa testing. Anywho lol... really like your practical sailor content. I'm going to try to apply to the writing position and I owe you a thanks for mentioning it on one of your videos.
@@michfloridaman I only met Paul once or twice. We have been to Key Lime twice actually once for the 101 and then another time just to go for fun because the price for a bungalow and a boat was the same as others pay for just a hotel room. the last time was 2 years ago. Thanks for the comment, keep following and as we pass through your area I will try to say hello!
I was talking to my slip neighbor last weekend about a friend of his who was looking for advice on buying his first boat. He put it perfectly. Don’t buy shiny, buy complete. Cleaning, buffing, waxing and bright work can all be done easily and relatively inexpensive. But buying a shiny boat that isn’t complete will cost you way more.
It’s not so much the cost in dollars. As hobbies go, sailing is more expense but the real cost is time commitment. If you want to get your moneys worth, you have to go out there and sail. It’s not like a computer game that you squeeze in for an hour or two before bedtime. So the true cost of sailing is time and commitment. Kinda like your relationship only with fewer headaches
Yep. A yacht is a horse, it isn't a motorcycle. You've got to home it, tend to its hooves, feed it, attend to its health requirements and so on, whether you ride it or not. A bike can be put up on the centre stand in the corner of the shed with a trickle charger on the battery and forgotten about until next season. I've got several friends encouraging me to buy a yacht. I live 75 miles from the nearest club. There's not "just popping down to the boat", where I am. They don't "get it".
Totally agree. Sail boats are like big dogs, you can't leave them alone too long or bad things happen! If you don't like maintenance, and lots of it, don't buy a sail boat. All part of the deal, you take good care of your boat and she'll take good care of you.
@@markcorter6082 My Dad owned a 33' carvel planked sloop for 6 years. He reckons that he really missed it when he sold it. To get his sailing fix fulfilled, he'd often get a ride on his friend's boats. If they weren't going out, Dad would stand under a shower, fully clothed and tear up a pile of ten dollar notes. Then he'd go outside (in his wet clothes) and do repairs to the house for six or seven hours. When he was finished on one side of the house, he'd go around to the other side of the house and break something, so he had something to do next week.
For a first cheap boat hank on sails arent as big a deal as you make it out to be. Attach the sail while on dock, leave an elastic strap across the top of it if its windy. When youre ready to raise it walk forward and release the elastic (if you used it) then raise the jib from the cockpit. To drop it simply heave to (tack but leave the jib/genoa on the windward side) then drop the halyard. The sail will stay on deck and then you can go forward to pack it or strap it down till dock. I sail a 26ft with no autohelm and Ive never had any issues with the headsail when solo.
I bought a Sunfish back in 1970 and spent two years taking it all over the place on a trailer, including lakes in the Adirondacks and the Jersey shore (often a challenge to get beyond the incoming waves. Sailing the inside water was great). In 1972, I bought a Pearson 26, having learned a lot sailing the Sunfish. I took it to Maine and my kids grew up sailing it, finally selling it in 2003-53 years later.
I’m eighty. Gave up sailing 5 years ago for reasons of health. After owning a fistful of yachts from age 7 to 75 I can confirm that the absolutely best times you will ever have with a yacht are 1). The day you buy her and, 2). The day you sell her. Looking back, as a general rule, small boats are not only cheaper and can be kept at home but, if I’m honest, they’re more fun to sail, too.
I sailed over 10,000 blue water miles solo on a 24-foot full keel boat with hank on headsails. The roller furling NEVER failed because I didn’t have it. The hank-on sails were never an issue. Once when running under a storm jib in 55 kt winds gusting above that I had the peace of mind of knowing the storm jib was designed for those conditions and didn’t worry about roller ‘failing’. .
I agree totally. I've owned 7 sailboats. One had no headsail, two had "Other" types of headsails with a "Head Foil" around the headstay in one, or "set flying" like an 18th century cutter in the other, 3 had hanked on headsails, and my last cruising boat, bought in 2000 when hanked on headsails were even rarer than cars with manual transmissions, had roller furling. In 1969, I was young and stupid enough to install roller furling on a perfectly good sloop with hanked on jib. First time I used it, I pulled on the furling line and the foot of the sail rolled up neatly, while the rest of the sail was free and luffing. I have had roller furled sails jam halfway furled and go neither in or out. They distort the shape of the sail, leading to poor performance on all points of sail and all degrees of setness/furledness except running free, and at anchor the add windage forward that causes the boat to "sail" back and forth with a violent jerk on the anchor line at the end of each swing. I tried using a second anchor and anchoring by the stern; both of those techniques worked, but the ultimate solution was selling that last cruising boat and not replacing it.
Very early on roller furling had slight issues but it’s been a non issue ever since and I’d venture to say it’s quite a bit safer to boot, especially single handed. I can furl my sails from cockpit and don’t have to go up on the bow. The only reason to keep Hank on head sail is nostalgia and resistance to change. Next you’ll be telling us self tailing winches are bad…
@@just-dlfunny enough I’m changing out the last of my non self tailers this weekend. I’m also cutter rigged so non self tailing winches and non roller furling sails suck when you’re single handing.
We did made the right choice, then, back in 2008, buying a Bénéteau First 235 (swing keel). A lovely boat with a very cleverly designed. We sailed it intensively for 8 seasons, getting more experienced and choosing more challenging waters. We were reluctant to buy a boat, not sure we would go out sailing often enough. Never regretted it, but eventually upgraded to 30-ft, mainly because the outboard was problematic in large waves.
I've recently started looking into starting sailing and it really is a buyers market for used boats. Even for something considered a luxury good the depreciation is absolutely insane.
Scrounged a local yatch club for boats that looked to be sitting a couple years. Found one that had sat 5yrs. Interior had a racoon in it but dry. 2 months later I just sailed her yesterday and today anchored out and went swimming. 1200 for the mooring. But that includes showers, coock outs, grills ect. Spend a few hundred on odds and ends and rebedding every thing. Many good boats out here waiting for love!
Interior had a raccoon in it but dry so I take it a dry raccoon is a deceased raccoon that has some how freeze-dried preserved if the interior had had a wet raccoon in it would that have been better if so why thank you.
It was a perfect first boat for us because it responded really well to upgraded components and good sailing technique - very rewarding to learn on. All without breaking the bank. 10/10 would recommend for first time keel boat owners.
This video is someting i need to watch every 3 months. It helps bring everything in perspective for me. Everything you have stated can be applied to long distance/live aboard ownership. Ill be solo and already looking at safe but isolated carribien travel. Yes 23 is small, i would prefer a 26-28, but the cost is doable.
Cost is strongly dependent on where you use and keep your boat. Here in Maine you will pay quite a lot for winter storage and marina slips are much more expensive than down south. The marina I am at has a minimum charge of $4,500 for May through October if your boat is under 30'. If you opt to keep the boat on a mooring, you can budget $1,500-$2,000 for renting a mooring for the 10 years it will take to work your way to the top of the wait list to get your own.Winter outside storage in a yard will generally run about $75-$100/ft plus the cost of shrink wrap which is often required. You will also have to pay for haul/launch and stepping/unstepping masts plus mast storage charges. Another cost will be pressure washing the hull at haulout. Also fewer and fewer yards around here allow DIY work on the boat so you need to factor in the cost of bottom paint and labor, plus labor for anything else that needs doing (winterizing engines and water systems, varnish paint, etc. That 23' boat would likely cost $8K+ to keep in a slip and yard store in winter here. Also you forgot insurance which you will have to get to keep your boat in a slip. You can often add a small boat under 26' to your homeowners insurance policy for very little money as long as the boat isn't too valuable. If your boat is small enough to go on a trailer, off season storage will be much easier and cheaper since you can keep it at home. You can store a keel boat on a trailer although you may have to have the boat lifted of/on the trailer for launch/haul. You can keep a 24-26 foot boat on a trailer and tow it home if you have a suitable truck. When I lived in New Brunswick I kept my boat on a mooring at a provincial park. The people who kept their boats there got together to hire a crane for launch and haul. It was very cheap then. I think we paid about $75 to the park for mooring rental for the summer, about $200 for each persons part of the haul/launch crane rental and my insurance ran about $75 as a rider on my home owner's policy. I trailered the boat home and kept it in my driveway. My all up annual base cost was about $400 including licensing my trailer. I probably spent another few hundred a year for maintenance and upgrades. My boat back then was a Challenger 7.4 - A Canadian boat. Since I was in New Brunswick my costs were in Canadian dollars. If my boat had been too big to trailer, I would have had to spend more to join the local yacht club to get access to their storage yard and haul/launch facilities since there were no commercial boat yards in Fredericton NB back then (80s and 90s)..
Excellent advise for those looking into sailing or buying a first boat. I would also add that looking for boats that have been in salt water versus fresh water can make a big difference in the condition of certain onboard items, such as thruhulls, lines, etc..
All good advise. One thing that you missed was, we don't have to haul during the winter. So the slip fee is 12 months a year. You still haul to clean and paint the bottom, depending how you keep it clean duirng the season.The river seldon gets below 50* F so it doesn't freeze. A heater in the boat to keep the fresh water in the boat from freezing and also the moisture down.
Thanks for the encouragement - the more real estate speculation and lack of public investment into infrastructure hits a growing population, the waters will be one option to find refuge while maintaining mobility - even intercontinental...
Ha ha. I owned a used sail boat for 15 years. Did lots of improvements and good maintenance. Net cost was over $100,000. It is a terrible investment, but I don’t regret doing it.
Cheaper than flying planes...buying even a Cessna nowadays is hundreds of thousands of dollars, and fuel is super pricey...not to mention all the equipment you have to get for it, with stuff like navigation equipment being thousands of dollars for individual pieces of it
On surveying: here in Ontario it's mandatory if you want insurance on a boat that's older than 15 year (and insurance in mandatory in marinas). Unless you go with 'agreed value' but the lowest I've seen this for is $15,000. Secondly; the minimum fee that I've seen a surveyor was $700 with travel fees, and that was for anything under 25 feet.
I think one can get by without roller-furling, and do it without even an auto-pilot. The trick is to set the boat on an upwind course. You can usually get one to self-steer on such a course. Another trick ist to have a down-haul, so the jib can be lowered before you have to go up forward to remove it. Roller-furl gear must be of the top quality, because if itfailsyouare in even bigger trouble than if you had no such gear in the first place. Down-hauls aresimple and quite cheap to set up. And they are incredibly reliable.
I bought a 1989 Dehler 25. Restored the paint and teak interior, and love sailing it with my partner. If you can work with your hands, it is really cheap. But if you get other people and companies to fix it, you will pay dearly, and end up with poor quality work. Its better in anyway to fix your own boat, cause, out on the big blue, nobody will come to help. Also, to restore your own boat, and install stuff, teaches you about every part of your boat, and instill confidence in a boat.... I am hooked....😊
I learned sailing on small dingies, then I upgraded to a 28ft Jaguar. The latest boat I sailed was a 60ft Oyster. Start small once you know how it doesn't matter how big the boat is. Yes you need some skill to handle a bigger boat but the principals are the same.
We just recently purchased a 1989 Catalina 30 MKII Tr for 22k. She has work as every boat does but it’s a nice floating condo year round in Texas for us. The family has spent more time there than at the house for the last 45 days. I’ll be happy to take her out when I get off soon.
Considering costs, a good rule of thumb (assuming you do as much work as possible yourself): when you buy a boat you can easily spend another 20-30% of the purchase price on repairs upgrades in the first year: and ongoing maintenance/upgrades are going to run around 5-10% of the value of the boat per annum. So a $30k boat will probably take another $7-10k out of your pocket in the first year, and cost an average of around $3k pa for maintenance/upgrades.
Get into a sailing club and all these numbers for marinas and winter storage will drop significantly. You also have experience, craftmanship and a lot of skilled hands around you to help you out.
No common men, a clipped foresail is no a hassle. Before you leave the dock clip the sail attach the lines. When out on the water pull the line the sail goes up easy. Down get full head wind. Let the sail down. Clip it with a elastic line and you are done. I’ve sailed with these jibs single handed for years. They are not as easy as a roller yes but they can easily be managed single handed with any issue
As a teenager I learned to sail on a sunfish (oddly enough the only time I've sailed in a hailstorm followed by a thunderstorm as we reached the closest beach) then onto a Venture 17, Catalina 22. From there it was a 1968 Irwin 31 for many years. I think I've owed about 4 Catalina 22 sailboats as the they a fun, quick and easy to use. Currently have a Catalina 30 but moving on to a new boat soon. As far as the wing keel, if you are anywhere you have crab traps, I wouldn't buy it.The wing is great at catching crab traps!!!! Night sailing is awesome unless you have a wing keel and crab traps in play. Great video!
Region will affect costs greatly too! I went for a quote at a boatyard in Panama City, Florida for shipyard work. They want over 4x the costs that the same work goes for in Mississippi. So I will sail back to Mississippi for the work that needs done. Some places simply rip people off. Find another area.
jib sail with hanks is not unsafe but very safe. On a serious bluewater cruising sailboat, roller-furling is unsafe as it could be twisted under huge torsion. If you want to lower the hanked jib, just rig a quick downhaul from the head of the sail, which could enable you to drop the jib sail in an instant.
A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into. It all comes down to what you can do and what you have to pay someone to fix, maintain, replace. You pay for the boat once you pay for Slip, maintenance, Insurance and upgrades for the whole period you own the boat.
Next to that, you better notice who you are forced to deal with in the harbour. Some harbour environments are plain sickening with dysfunctional alcoholics and social outcasts, grouping in and creating a disturbed climate. Locals, if not your drunk neighbour, are busy stealing from well kept boats, while the owner is occupied elsewhere. Dysfunctional group dynamics often ignored and silenced by the harbour authorities, you're forced to pay no matter what's happening! Ask me how I know... 🙄🤮 Stay clear, keep silent and move on as fast as possible!
Learned it. A 12-footer in San Diego had my own 12-footer later on. Took out a 25-footer number of times. But what surprised me was watching recently a number of people who have gone across the oceans and the amount of repair/damage that has to be done on such a short trip. if you compare it to a car going a thousand miles or two, you don't have a lot to fix. I guess what I'm trying to point out is sailing in a bay. Near land often is quite quite like riding on a road for a car. Whereas traveling across the oceans is a bit more like going off-roading into some very rough terrain. You can expect more incidents of repair being needed and cost.
I love my Beneteau 235. The Hank on jib let’s me change sails (that still perform well) as the conditions demand. I would never leave the marina without having a jib already rigged and ready to hoist though. That’s just good seamanship. Dropping the jib is easy with just back winding it and releasing the halyard. No need for dramatics. The jib drops right on deck. Auto pilot isn’t needed either. Maybe just a tiller lock. Better yet heave to, to manage all sail changes if you don’t have crew.
I’m almost ready to buy my first keel boat ever. Looking at a 75 yankee 26 with a blown inboard in otherwise good shape for a great deal. Gonna pull up my sleeves and dive in thanks for the motivation over these past few years
I grew up in Oriental NC. Great little sailing town! I sailed sunfish and hobbie cats. Always wanted to own my own keel boat. Maybe one day I'll move back to the coast. Great video!
I dont know if I want to get into sailing, but I am sure I will be building my own boat because I want to marinize a motor and engineer a drive for it. Maybe I'll get into sailing as well at some point. Building a sailing dinghy wouldnt be a bad start either, learn two skills at the same time and then move on to the bigger boats. Maybe a boat big enough to carry the dinghy around, that'd be unique.
Great episode, I have been looking all over Southern Ontario and comparing prices, age, etc. One day soonish....but for the meantime, if you are land locked like I am, the sunfish or similar is a really great suggestion. And, as a cottage hack....absofrickin-lutely, a good cottage rental for one week would be your yearly boat owning expense.
Furler and sail must be matched. Decide if you want to keep the sails you have then match the furler to them. Or plan on a new foresail, cut and sewn to go with the new furler. p.s. I love my CDI
Agree with everything but you could definitely get on the water much cheaper. I’m in Texas and Catalina 22 are a dime a dozen going from $1500-$2500 for a sailing boat with outboard and trailer. With a trailer you can park in your driveway for free and if it isn’t stored in saltwater the bottom paint will last a decade and those boats are so plentiful new parts are affordable and still sold by Catalina and used parts/sails are plentiful and very cheap. I’d highly suggest that route for a new sailor so they don’t get overwhelmed with costs.
@@winduncan9818plus the marinas aren’t safe. My buddy has a yacht by San Francisco and a bunch of the boats have been broken into and even some stolen and run aground further down the coast and completely stripped of electronics and other valuables…
Iike your comments about hanked on vs furling jib. Funny story: I used to have a hanked on genny on my pearson 26 and, after rigging a downhaul that went back to the cockpit, learned how to flake it on the deck on take down. I’d steer with the tiller between my knees, downhaul in one hand, and halyard in the other. I’d steer a little bit to one side of the wind, then the other while taking down, and the wind would flake the sail for me on the deck. 😂😂😂. Of course this was in moderate wind…
All depends on the boat and location, of course. In Boca Raton or Ft. Lauderdale (FL), a slip with power and water costs a pretty penny. Not for the average Joe.
I would love that boat as I am a racer but now am thinking I need a cruising boat mix. But, I live in Arizona and would "cruise" on a lake. Still a good choice but I can't buy one here. So, I would recommend a Catalina or Capri. Here, the C-24 is very available and is raced. Same with the 25 and 28 and a few Capris are available. In fact, Catalina brand boots are available all over the country.
I have a 1980 W.D. Shock Santana 525. It has a 5hp long shaft Honda outboard. Twosets of sails and a trailer. If you can come to Tulsa, you can have it for 5k
Just a thought of mine If you fave a good boat with 2 cabins, compare all costs with a small apartment with 2 bedrooms, facing the sea, both with all taxes. A boat is MORE PRIVATE, MORE SECURE (marinas have security), and we can take our home with us, when traveling.
Sounds great, but where I live in Michigan there is an 8-10 year waiting list for boat slips and then they run about $7,500 just for the summer. They can be purchased at private condo-style marinas, but run about $130,000 for a 30-ft slip… plus maintenance fees of about $1500/year, not even counting winter storage. I am enjoying a small trailer sailer (I found an interesting old Expo Solar Sailer) but my desire for a larger boat seems unobtainable.
6:12 That pretty much describes my whole afternoon sailing, on my 19' day sailer. All this hectic work is kind of what makes sailing my boat fun. My "auto pilot" is a rope that holds the tiller in one position (sometimes I have to run back and use my foot to reposition it). I can lower my jib with a downhaul line I rigged up, but the rest of the experience is just as you described. Plus dealing with wakes of power boats. On the other hand, I wonder if I'm getting too old for this. When I do get a 30' cruising boat, I think I'm going for furling jib AND main, all lines led to cockpit. Different kind of fun. (I'd like to keep both boats, though.)
Hey Tim, iive got an Mac Wester Wight sloop 30ft gonna sail the world! From friesland the Netherlands!!! Just moved from my depressing appartement to my boat the Black Tulip! Keeping the heavy side down!
You gotta do a video, or maybe 3, about stepping the mast. That is the sailor’s biggest pain in the…. Sure, if you’re young you can probably muscle it up there, but even then, if a gust of wind catches you at mid-hoist, you can be introduced to instant terror. Last year I got an O’day Mariner, and I could get by with the mechanical advantage of the Mainsheet…if there was no wind. This year I got a too-good-to-pass-up deal on a Starwind 19, and I swear the mast feels about twice as heavy. So, I resorted to a gin pole. Didn’t like that by itself because the mast still wanted to wag from side to side. So I read up on mini-stays and they seemed like it would take a bunch of line or hardware to get them to line up with the centerline of the mast pin. Then I found a variation that solved the riddle for me. I used a line to run up to something like a double block pulley. The line is long enough to reach from a crossbar on one side of the trailer, up to the pulley and down to the end of the gin pole. Then it goes back up to the double block and down to the opposite side of the trailer crossbar. By the way, the double block is hooked onto the jib halyard so it can raise and lower the rig. Then I attached the Mainsheet to the gin pole and forestay youknow. So with the mast supported by the mast base and two lines that continually adjust to the correct length-to control the side to side movement of the mast-you have the three points necessary to define a plane. In a word, you’ve got stability…w hitch is a sworn enemy of terror.
Take REALLY good care of your motor if you’re going to think of it as a safety net. A lot of sailors neglect and abuse their motors and then it doesn’t start when they really need it.
I have minimal sailing experience, however I'm ASA certified for a few courses and am confident of a couple of things: 1.) Mistakes on bigger boats are... BIGGER. Learn to sail smaller boats and then advance. Sure, you can jump to a massive boat if your wallet permits, but mistakes can be not only costly but dangerous. 2.) Also, remember the law of cascading failures: When something goes wrong, it's extremely probable that something else is about to go wrong. When two things go wrong, three is right around the corner. React to safety the situation then stop and think. What are you missing? Godspeed to all who ride the wind.
Sailing itself is not expensive as the wind is free. Owning a boat (and I am not talking about something smaller than 25ft), on the other hand can get very expensive if things go wrong and/or are worn out. So let’s get real about all of this. Marina fees, my 1974 30ft boat in my local marina costs $6k per year to keep it in its floating berth. Annual boat registration is cheap $100, insurance is $1600. Fuel costs really depend on how often one uses the boat and how much you use the boat.. Now my boat cost $32K but it’s two previous owners invested around $35K in maintenance costs over about a 4-6 yr period, inc a new Volvo penta D1-30 engine, new folding prop, new sails, new furler, new Harken 40 primary winches, new B&G wind instrument, new sheets, quite a lot of new interior paintwork/all external timber trims revarnished etc. So did myself and my co-owner get a bargain, possibly. However, at some stage we will want to have the boat completely repainted (est cost $6K +), replace the outdated chartplotter (est $1k), dinghy ($1K), new anchor ($1K), new compass ($500), plus a myriad of potential gear upgrades etc, so again this is likely to cost quite a few thousand. We do its annual maintenance (scrub/antifoul/annodes servicing etc - but even this costs perhaps all up $500-1K. So taking all of this into consideration no owning a boat isn’t cheap, but it’s a lifestyle activity that I want to do. So, i am ok in accepting the costs in owning and running a boat so I can go sailing. Oh and at some point in the not too distant future the running rigging is going to have to be replaced, so that’s going to be around another $6K. So think it all through before buying a boat. Sorry Lady K sailing but that’s the reality of this activity.
Boat ownership is expensive. My advice has always been to go to your local yacht club or mariner and let your presence be known. You'll get a ride and it will cost you virtually nothing.
Too true mate, and that is why for the first 8 years after taking up sailing it’s all I did, sailed on other people’s boats, club racing, coastal cruising and offshore passages. The itch finally came though to get my own boat. How long will I own it, who knows ?? For the time being I am enjoying it.
@@1240enzo One could go with a small simple 15 ft open sailboat, e.g. a cat boat. Plenty of space without a cabin. It should of course have positive buoyancy (can't sink even if the boat is filled with water) - a smallish bimini is also a good addition.
I guess as a younger Millennial who only has a couple hundred dollars left for savings after living costs are accounted for each month should ditch the idea of sailing then... 😅 Same with flying airplanes
@@1240enzo The way that you did it is the perfect introduction to the sport. And, with all respect to your endeavour, anyone can do it. I had my a$$ hanging out of my jeans when I took up sailing. The biggest financial hurdle that I had to overcome was finding enough small change for the bar after the race. My bicycle could find its own way home (Dad's garage!) from the yacht club!
Sailing is good until you have to replace a mast, sails, rigging, and so on. The best going today is a solar yacht with electric motors. Limited maintenance and free sun translates into always available power.
At 25$ an hour and living close to the beach in Florida I was ready to get my first boat. I probably could have done it with much less but I have to take care of my child.
Boat ownership might be a step to far at this point, but if you can at least find time, you can always crew on someone else's yacht. That will cost you a bit of petrol money and maybe a small insurance fee when you go out. Gear is easy to source second hand. I had my backside hanging out of my jeans when I first started sailing.
Last thing i expected to hear in this video was the phrase "Oriental, North Carolina" I haven't thought of home in some time. It's a cute little town with some great seafood festivals
@@LadyKSailing I moved to Florida back in 2009, but originally from that area- hobucken, new Bern, Oriental. Glad to see it getting some love here! I also love that you're breaking down how to approach sailing with a frugal mindset. I'm more of a camper than a sailor, but I appreciate alternative lifestyle and hobbies that bring us closer to nature
As someone in the process with there first boat, get insurance for emergency water towing. First time out engine blew and was unable to sail back to port. $$$
It's very expensive if you have to keep your boat at a marina. Summer fee's, winter fees, haul out/launch fees, maintenance, insurance, etc. The bigger the boat, the more $$$$ to just own it.
Sailboat (Freedom 25): $4000 Dry cleaning cushion covers: $100 Replacing missing spinnaker pole: $100 Replacing missing staysail: $150 Moving boat from one Finger Lake to another: $1600 (could have motored it, but it would be three days) Slip fee: $2000 Stepping mast: $160 Upgrading electrical panel: $35 Upgrading lights to LEDs: $50 Replacing lazyjacks: $30 Shore power cable: $30 Registration: $60 Winter storage: $650 ($500 to store, $150 to pull) Enjoyment: -$10,000 So far, we're ahead in enjoyment by about $1000.
Believe it or not you can even have AC these days on a little solar panel. I'm partial to the ecoflow products but theres other companies that make good portable units. my little wave 2 does a good job keeping my 10x12 foot room cool and can be run all day off a 200w panel.
Sailing can be as expensive as you want or, as Cheap as you want, is your solo choice , and on were ever your budget can afford, cut that in half , then go sailing , if you ever catch your self thinking about costs , its time to sell it before is too late
Hey Lady K, we’re super into your content, and are working on going sailing full time. This video is titled a bit different than the content, are you planning a series out of this? Thanks for all the great info!
Hey Tim, loved this video like so many others before. I hope you someday come over to Europe and take a look at the sailing scene here...and become available as a guide in buying a sailboat this side of the Atlantic. Next one will be my second boat. First one was a Lagoon 440 and that was a bit too much boat for someone not knowing sh*t, so I would like to get some help this time around. Again, love your videos!
Marinas are getting expensive in VA. From $3500 to $6800 for a 40 ft slip Plus insurance is difficult on older boats..have to prove a min of 5 yrs of boat ownership to be eligible
I did the mistake of moving my boat to where I have my house many years ago. Here they want 1.200$ to put the boat on shore to clean and reapply the bottom pain, then 1.200$ again to put it back to sea, the place where I had my boat before 7 days sailing away I did pay 500 $ total and that included 1 month of renting space on shore to get the work done. Now the boat is rotting away where it stands as I can not afford to pay that much ...
If you are fortunate enough to find a boat that was cared for by its previous owners, then sailing can be fairly inexpensive. The only expensive part of my own experience so far is the slip at my marina. Routine maintenance, as a DIYer, are all very reasonable - so far.
Holy smokes you have expensive marinas. I thought my spot in Norway was expensive at $1000/yr. The usual ones are around $400/yr but they will require a $4000 deposit. Electricity is usually extra.
LKS…lots of talk about some of the disadvantages of a production boat. But is there an advantage as well? Meaning more readily available parts, people who know how to work on it, etc? Thanks for all the lessons
The main advantage of a good production boat is it should be easier to sell when the time comes to move on. Other than that, not much, as most were built down to a price and so only of average quality at best. Parts availability for production boats is rarely an advantage because builders don’t provide support for their older models. Example, Beneteau went through a phase of fitting fancy curved windows to provide skylights. Once these crack or craze replacements are impossible to find, and to have a specialist fabricate them would cost almost as much as those 30 year old boats are worth. Look for a well known design such as Sparkman and Stephens, and a quality build where off-the-shelf ports and hatches etc have been used. Assuming that you have some ability to fix things like electric wiring and cosmetics, good canvas work, sails and rigging are more important than a production nameplate.
Buying the boat is relatively cheap, it's the cost of ownership that's expensive. Insurance, marina fees, maintenance, rigging etc..and an outboard isn't much good in rough seas which I found to my cost because the engine is lifted out of the water meaning the impeller isn't sucking cooling water through it resulting in overheating. This happened to me in rough seas, ended up running aground and incurring large recovery fees after the coast guard towed it onto a beach. Sailing is a great pastime but you'll need to be well off. A dinghy is good compromise for the non rich among us.
Tohatsu absolutely is not Mercury... Tohatsu & Nissan are the same. However Tohatsu & Mercury have a contract where Mercury rebadges some smaller model Tohatsu outboards.
For every 100k you spend on your boat expect to drop 12k per year over a 5 year period plus depreciation. If thats not expensive for you then go for it.
Nothing is more expensive than a free boat.
Haha.
This is true.
I was given a Allied Seawind for free...
Try divorce, it's like a free boat on steriods.
All addictions are expensive
Sailing is free. But when something breaks you need money. Lots of money. Boats are never reliable like a car can be. Or low maintenance like a car or house.
In my opinion, buy the best and most equipped boat you can afford; any dollar spent on maintenance, improvements and electronics by the previous owner translates in cents in selling price.
However depends on your skill and his skill set . Most PO "upgrades" I find myself redoing as they are hacks .On top Very few people do recent upgrades on a boat they are going to sell so everything is a little tired .
My favourite boat is unmolested , factory orriginals and well cared for . No instrument panel with 10 old holes in it , no mystery holes in the deck .
@@faircompetition1203 agreed, but you suddenly stumble in a whole other price bracket, perhaps a bit steep for a first sailboat.
👏👏👏👏👍
Look for a boat that is consistently and recently sailed. A 20 year old boat that’s sat for a year or 2 can be in much worse condition then a 40 year old boat sailed weekly and maintained.
How can you tell this?
@@markknoop777 speak with the owner. Speak to neighbouring boat owners. Ask the Marina. You can check registration dates. There will be other signs- sticky winches, old bottom paint, old corroded zincs, mood and mildew, rotten lines.
@@bobloblaw1720 100%!!!
Ask@@markknoop777
Its also going to be much more expensive
Bought a 23ft. trailer sailer with only a week of experience with a laser as a kid. My wife and I didn't even know if it had everything we needed to sail. Got lucky and it floated, the honda motor ran, and the rigging and sails worked! We have fixed everything that was broken or breaking and sailed the river and a lake for some summer weekends. Took ASA101 in key largo, and also 103 in Mobile Bay, my wife went hard in 23 knots of wind she ran a big Beneteau 40 to 9knots with a grin on her face. We bought a Hunter 37c last year and have been working on that boat since. We aim to be back on the water in the next few months and then heading down the tombigbee and out to salt water for the first time in the boats life! I'm pouring every hour and dollar into it. I'm learning only slightly faster that I am getting it all done. You videos have really helped inspire me this far and we still have a long way to go and so many things to learn. Thank you for what you do.
That's awesome! Thanks so much for watching!
If you're anywhere near Cuba Landing Marina along the Tennessee River... You have a fellow sailor with a similar goal, who's also a marine mechanic happy to lend a hand. Currently working on a 73' Columbia 30' as a liveaboard for me and the Mrs.
Just curious... did you do your ASA @ Key Lime in Key Largo? I was Paul's marine mechanic last season before moving to tech in Nashville.
Nope never been there- sorry
@@LadyKSailing Actually bud, the reply was to the fellow posting. He referred to key largo for his asa testing. Anywho lol... really like your practical sailor content. I'm going to try to apply to the writing position and I owe you a thanks for mentioning it on one of your videos.
@@michfloridaman I only met Paul once or twice. We have been to Key Lime twice actually once for the 101 and then another time just to go for fun because the price for a bungalow and a boat was the same as others pay for just a hotel room. the last time was 2 years ago.
Thanks for the comment, keep following and as we pass through your area I will try to say hello!
I was talking to my slip neighbor last weekend about a friend of his who was looking for advice on buying his first boat. He put it perfectly. Don’t buy shiny, buy complete. Cleaning, buffing, waxing and bright work can all be done easily and relatively inexpensive. But buying a shiny boat that isn’t complete will cost you way more.
Please explain 'complete' more. TQ
It’s not so much the cost in dollars. As hobbies go, sailing is more expense but the real cost is time commitment. If you want to get your moneys worth, you have to go out there and sail. It’s not like a computer game that you squeeze in for an hour or two before bedtime.
So the true cost of sailing is time and commitment.
Kinda like your relationship only with fewer headaches
Yep. A yacht is a horse, it isn't a motorcycle. You've got to home it, tend to its hooves, feed it, attend to its health requirements and so on, whether you ride it or not. A bike can be put up on the centre stand in the corner of the shed with a trickle charger on the battery and forgotten about until next season.
I've got several friends encouraging me to buy a yacht. I live 75 miles from the nearest club. There's not "just popping down to the boat", where I am. They don't "get it".
Totally agree. Sail boats are like big dogs, you can't leave them alone too long or bad things happen! If you don't like maintenance, and lots of it, don't buy a sail boat. All part of the deal, you take good care of your boat and she'll take good care of you.
@@markcorter6082 My Dad owned a 33' carvel planked sloop for 6 years. He reckons that he really missed it when he sold it. To get his sailing fix fulfilled, he'd often get a ride on his friend's boats.
If they weren't going out, Dad would stand under a shower, fully clothed and tear up a pile of ten dollar notes. Then he'd go outside (in his wet clothes) and do repairs to the house for six or seven hours.
When he was finished on one side of the house, he'd go around to the other side of the house and break something, so he had something to do next week.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 I think I know your dad. Without the purpose of “that” work, there is no purpose at all.
@@davidbrayshaw3529that is painfully funny. Painful because it is so true!
For a first cheap boat hank on sails arent as big a deal as you make it out to be.
Attach the sail while on dock, leave an elastic strap across the top of it if its windy. When youre ready to raise it walk forward and release the elastic (if you used it) then raise the jib from the cockpit.
To drop it simply heave to (tack but leave the jib/genoa on the windward side) then drop the halyard.
The sail will stay on deck and then you can go forward to pack it or strap it down till dock.
I sail a 26ft with no autohelm and Ive never had any issues with the headsail when solo.
I bought a Sunfish back in 1970 and spent two years taking it all over the place on a trailer, including lakes in the Adirondacks and the Jersey shore (often a challenge to get beyond the incoming waves. Sailing the inside water was great). In 1972, I bought a Pearson 26, having learned a lot sailing the Sunfish. I took it to Maine and my kids grew up sailing it, finally selling it in 2003-53 years later.
I genuinely love this channel, down to earth real info no flush or bikini shots. A genuine YT Sailor.
Thank you so much!
good, wouldn't want to see him in a bikini anyways. 😇
Hey now🤣
I was waiting to see Tim in a bikini. Now I'm disappointed.
@@kobrapromotions yeah, but a few bikini shots now and then would make it a little better. You know, just a few. . . Now and then.
I’m eighty. Gave up sailing 5 years ago for reasons of health.
After owning a fistful of yachts from age 7 to 75 I can confirm that the absolutely best times you will ever have with a yacht are 1). The day you buy her and, 2). The day you sell her.
Looking back, as a general rule, small boats are not only cheaper and can be kept at home but, if I’m honest, they’re more fun to sail, too.
Well said!
Less stress!😂
Unless you have a shipyard.😊 Fam are into shipping. We have a couple.
What would constitute as a small boat for you?
@@nerminc.1713
Something you can rig and launch, singlehanded in 20 minutes or less.
Tim, I'm hoping to get into sailing sometime in the future and I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your informative videos. Thank you.
Great to hear! I appreciate that!
I sailed over 10,000 blue water miles solo on a 24-foot full keel boat with hank on headsails. The roller furling NEVER failed because I didn’t have it. The hank-on sails were never an issue. Once when running under a storm jib in 55 kt winds gusting above that I had the peace of mind of knowing the storm jib was designed for those conditions and didn’t worry about roller ‘failing’. .
The title of this video could be “I don’t like hank-on headsails”
I agree totally. I've owned 7 sailboats. One had no headsail, two had "Other" types of headsails with a "Head Foil" around the headstay in one, or "set flying" like an 18th century cutter in the other, 3 had hanked on headsails, and my last cruising boat, bought in 2000 when hanked on headsails were even rarer than cars with manual transmissions, had roller furling. In 1969, I was young and stupid enough to install roller furling on a perfectly good sloop with hanked on jib. First time I used it, I pulled on the furling line and the foot of the sail rolled up neatly, while the rest of the sail was free and luffing. I have had roller furled sails jam halfway furled and go neither in or out. They distort the shape of the sail, leading to poor performance on all points of sail and all degrees of setness/furledness except running free, and at anchor the add windage forward that causes the boat to "sail" back and forth with a violent jerk on the anchor line at the end of each swing. I tried using a second anchor and anchoring by the stern; both of those techniques worked, but the ultimate solution was selling that last cruising boat and not replacing it.
Very early on roller furling had slight issues but it’s been a non issue ever since and I’d venture to say it’s quite a bit safer to boot, especially single handed. I can furl my sails from cockpit and don’t have to go up on the bow. The only reason to keep Hank on head sail is nostalgia and resistance to change. Next you’ll be telling us self tailing winches are bad…
@@Monkeywrenchmotorcyclesif god meant for us to use self tailing winches, we’d have been born with two arms! HMPH!
@@just-dlfunny enough I’m changing out the last of my non self tailers this weekend. I’m also cutter rigged so non self tailing winches and non roller furling sails suck when you’re single handing.
We did made the right choice, then, back in 2008, buying a Bénéteau First 235 (swing keel).
A lovely boat with a very cleverly designed. We sailed it intensively for 8 seasons, getting more experienced and choosing more challenging waters.
We were reluctant to buy a boat, not sure we would go out sailing often enough.
Never regretted it, but eventually upgraded to 30-ft, mainly because the outboard was problematic in large waves.
I've recently started looking into starting sailing and it really is a buyers market for used boats. Even for something considered a luxury good the depreciation is absolutely insane.
I paid 5500 for my 76 Ericson 25 cb- I could sell it for the same amount or more 2 years later. I pay $300 a month for marina access
Scrounged a local yatch club for boats that looked to be sitting a couple years. Found one that had sat 5yrs. Interior had a racoon in it but dry. 2 months later I just sailed her yesterday and today anchored out and went swimming. 1200 for the mooring. But that includes showers, coock outs, grills ect. Spend a few hundred on odds and ends and rebedding every thing. Many good boats out here waiting for love!
It sounds like the racoon seemed to take care of her well
Interior had a raccoon in it but dry so I take it a dry raccoon is a deceased raccoon that has some how freeze-dried preserved if the interior had had a wet raccoon in it would that have been better if so why thank you.
What did you name the racoon? You're not going to tell me that you evicted him from his sailboat, are you??
I had a First 235 for a couple years. Great boats that punch way above their class!! Very quick and great layout for it's size!!
It was a perfect first boat for us because it responded really well to upgraded components and good sailing technique - very rewarding to learn on. All without breaking the bank. 10/10 would recommend for first time keel boat owners.
This video is someting i need to watch every 3 months. It helps bring everything in perspective for me. Everything you have stated can be applied to long distance/live aboard ownership. Ill be solo and already looking at safe but isolated carribien travel. Yes 23 is small, i would prefer a 26-28, but the cost is doable.
Thanks for watching!
Cost is strongly dependent on where you use and keep your boat. Here in Maine you will pay quite a lot for winter storage and marina slips are much more expensive than down south. The marina I am at has a minimum charge of $4,500 for May through October if your boat is under 30'. If you opt to keep the boat on a mooring, you can budget $1,500-$2,000 for renting a mooring for the 10 years it will take to work your way to the top of the wait list to get your own.Winter outside storage in a yard will generally run about $75-$100/ft plus the cost of shrink wrap which is often required. You will also have to pay for haul/launch and stepping/unstepping masts plus mast storage charges. Another cost will be pressure washing the hull at haulout. Also fewer and fewer yards around here allow DIY work on the boat so you need to factor in the cost of bottom paint and labor, plus labor for anything else that needs doing (winterizing engines and water systems, varnish paint, etc. That 23' boat would likely cost $8K+ to keep in a slip and yard store in winter here. Also you forgot insurance which you will have to get to keep your boat in a slip. You can often add a small boat under 26' to your homeowners insurance policy for very little money as long as the boat isn't too valuable.
If your boat is small enough to go on a trailer, off season storage will be much easier and cheaper since you can keep it at home. You can store a keel boat on a trailer although you may have to have the boat lifted of/on the trailer for launch/haul. You can keep a 24-26 foot boat on a trailer and tow it home if you have a suitable truck.
When I lived in New Brunswick I kept my boat on a mooring at a provincial park. The people who kept their boats there got together to hire a crane for launch and haul. It was very cheap then. I think we paid about $75 to the park for mooring rental for the summer, about $200 for each persons part of the haul/launch crane rental and my insurance ran about $75 as a rider on my home owner's policy. I trailered the boat home and kept it in my driveway. My all up annual base cost was about $400 including licensing my trailer. I probably spent another few hundred a year for maintenance and upgrades. My boat back then was a Challenger 7.4 - A Canadian boat. Since I was in New Brunswick my costs were in Canadian dollars. If my boat had been too big to trailer, I would have had to spend more to join the local yacht club to get access to their storage yard and haul/launch facilities since there were no commercial boat yards in Fredericton NB back then (80s and 90s)..
Thank so much for the info!
Excellent advise for those looking into sailing or buying a first boat. I would also add that looking for boats that have been in salt water versus fresh water can make a big difference in the condition of certain onboard items, such as thruhulls, lines, etc..
Great tip!
All good advise. One thing that you missed was, we don't have to haul during the winter. So the slip fee is 12 months a year. You still haul to clean and paint the bottom, depending how you keep it clean duirng the season.The river seldon gets below 50* F so it doesn't freeze. A heater in the boat to keep the fresh water in the boat from freezing and also the moisture down.
Thanks for the encouragement - the more real estate speculation and lack of public investment into infrastructure hits a growing population, the waters will be one option to find refuge while maintaining mobility - even intercontinental...
Ha ha. I owned a used sail boat for 15 years. Did lots of improvements and good maintenance. Net cost was over $100,000. It is a terrible investment, but I don’t regret doing it.
Never refer to a boat as an investment....
Cheaper than flying planes...buying even a Cessna nowadays is hundreds of thousands of dollars, and fuel is super pricey...not to mention all the equipment you have to get for it, with stuff like navigation equipment being thousands of dollars for individual pieces of it
Sailing is the most expensive way to go somewhere slowly
You say that like it’s a bad thing! 😂
As a great lakes sailor, I retired to Oriental N C. A great sailing community. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks for watching!
On surveying: here in Ontario it's mandatory if you want insurance on a boat that's older than 15 year (and insurance in mandatory in marinas). Unless you go with 'agreed value' but the lowest I've seen this for is $15,000. Secondly; the minimum fee that I've seen a surveyor was $700 with travel fees, and that was for anything under 25 feet.
From a land lubber who has always wanted to sail your videos are very inspiring!
Thanks for watching!
That First 235 is the first keel boat I ever learned how to sail on. Brings back memories seeing it again 😊
I think one can get by without roller-furling, and do it without even an auto-pilot. The trick is to set the boat on an upwind course. You can usually get one to self-steer on such a course.
Another trick ist to have a down-haul, so the jib can be lowered before you have to go up forward to remove it.
Roller-furl gear must be of the top quality, because if itfailsyouare in even bigger trouble than if you had no such gear in the first place.
Down-hauls aresimple and quite cheap to set up. And they are incredibly reliable.
I bought a 1989 Dehler 25. Restored the paint and teak interior, and love sailing it with my partner. If you can work with your hands, it is really cheap. But if you get other people and companies to fix it, you will pay dearly, and end up with poor quality work.
Its better in anyway to fix your own boat, cause, out on the big blue, nobody will come to help.
Also, to restore your own boat, and install stuff, teaches you about every part of your boat, and instill confidence in a boat....
I am hooked....😊
I learned sailing on small dingies, then I upgraded to a 28ft Jaguar.
The latest boat I sailed was a 60ft Oyster.
Start small once you know how it doesn't matter how big the boat is.
Yes you need some skill to handle a bigger boat but the principals are the same.
We just recently purchased a 1989 Catalina 30 MKII Tr for 22k. She has work as every boat does but it’s a nice floating condo year round in Texas for us. The family has spent more time there than at the house for the last 45 days. I’ll be happy to take her out when I get off soon.
I can confirm that hank-on is a PITA.
Experience is from the boat club's racer (L23) sailboats.
Considering costs, a good rule of thumb (assuming you do as much work as possible yourself):
when you buy a boat you can easily spend another 20-30% of the purchase price on repairs upgrades in the first year:
and ongoing maintenance/upgrades are going to run around 5-10% of the value of the boat per annum.
So a $30k boat will probably take another $7-10k out of your pocket in the first year, and cost an average of around $3k pa for maintenance/upgrades.
Get into a sailing club and all these numbers for marinas and winter storage will drop significantly. You also have experience, craftmanship and a lot of skilled hands around you to help you out.
No common men, a clipped foresail is no a hassle. Before you leave the dock clip the sail attach the lines. When out on the water pull the line the sail goes up easy.
Down get full head wind. Let the sail down. Clip it with a elastic line and you are done.
I’ve sailed with these jibs single handed for years. They are not as easy as a roller yes but they can easily be managed single handed with any issue
As a teenager I learned to sail on a sunfish (oddly enough the only time I've sailed in a hailstorm followed by a thunderstorm as we reached the closest beach) then onto a Venture 17, Catalina 22. From there it was a 1968 Irwin 31 for many years. I think I've owed about 4 Catalina 22 sailboats as the they a fun, quick and easy to use. Currently have a Catalina 30 but moving on to a new boat soon.
As far as the wing keel, if you are anywhere you have crab traps, I wouldn't buy it.The wing is great at catching crab traps!!!! Night sailing is awesome unless you have a wing keel and crab traps in play.
Great video!
Region will affect costs greatly too! I went for a quote at a boatyard in Panama City, Florida for shipyard work. They want over 4x the costs that the same work goes for in Mississippi. So I will sail back to Mississippi for the work that needs done. Some places simply rip people off. Find another area.
Sailing lessons are a good start, cheap and you meet a skilled sailor
jib sail with hanks is not unsafe but very safe. On a serious bluewater cruising sailboat, roller-furling is unsafe as it could be twisted under huge torsion. If you want to lower the hanked jib, just rig a quick downhaul from the head of the sail, which could enable you to drop the jib sail in an instant.
My first boat was a C&C 30e and i still got it :D
Love ur videos man! helps me all the way in Sweden.
Thanks for watching!
Hi Tim, Love that you highlighted Oriental. That's my sailing area and for the state of NC, it's quite a happening place for sailors.
thanks, I visited there on the way south and again on the way back, fantastic place!
A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into.
It all comes down to what you can do and what you have to pay someone to fix, maintain, replace. You pay for the boat once you pay for Slip, maintenance, Insurance and upgrades for the whole period you own the boat.
Next to that, you better notice who you are forced to deal with in the harbour. Some harbour environments are plain sickening with dysfunctional alcoholics and social outcasts, grouping in and creating a disturbed climate. Locals, if not your drunk neighbour, are busy stealing from well kept boats, while the owner is occupied elsewhere. Dysfunctional group dynamics often ignored and silenced by the harbour authorities, you're forced to pay no matter what's happening!
Ask me how I know... 🙄🤮
Stay clear, keep silent and move on as fast as possible!
Learned it. A 12-footer in San Diego had my own 12-footer later on. Took out a 25-footer number of times. But what surprised me was watching recently a number of people who have gone across the oceans and the amount of repair/damage that has to be done on such a short trip. if you compare it to a car going a thousand miles or two, you don't have a lot to fix. I guess what I'm trying to point out is sailing in a bay. Near land often is quite quite like riding on a road for a car. Whereas traveling across the oceans is a bit more like going off-roading into some very rough terrain. You can expect more incidents of repair being needed and cost.
I love my Beneteau 235. The Hank on jib let’s me change sails (that still perform well) as the conditions demand. I would never leave the marina without having a jib already rigged and ready to hoist though. That’s just good seamanship. Dropping the jib is easy with just back winding it and releasing the halyard. No need for dramatics. The jib drops right on deck. Auto pilot isn’t needed either. Maybe just a tiller lock. Better yet heave to, to manage all sail changes if you don’t have crew.
Auto pilot is pretty sweet, though.
I’m almost ready to buy my first keel boat ever. Looking at a 75 yankee 26 with a blown inboard in otherwise good shape for a great deal. Gonna pull up my sleeves and dive in thanks for the motivation over these past few years
Thanks for watching!
You definitely make it sound easy and doable. Very encouraging!
Living in Miami, there's lots of places to rent a smaller sailboat. It's great, all the fun and none of the maintenance.
I've been figuring this out. The best sailboat is live aboard or car toppable. I had the middle boat. It was harder to get out.
I grew up in Oriental NC. Great little sailing town! I sailed sunfish and hobbie cats. Always wanted to own my own keel boat. Maybe one day I'll move back to the coast.
Great video!
Thanks for watching!
I dont know if I want to get into sailing, but I am sure I will be building my own boat because I want to marinize a motor and engineer a drive for it. Maybe I'll get into sailing as well at some point. Building a sailing dinghy wouldnt be a bad start either, learn two skills at the same time and then move on to the bigger boats. Maybe a boat big enough to carry the dinghy around, that'd be unique.
Thank you for this video! Looking forward to learning more. I’m saving up to buy a sailboat and start hitting the water!
You can do it!
First keel was a Catalina 22 with trailer for $500. Dry storage yard had crane and would drop boat for $125 per month. Good times.😎
Figure 10 % of boats value, in maintenance cost per year. Then add slip,storage and insurance for your area of fun
Under motor power unfurl the headsail. Tack to heave-to. Then raise mainsail.
Great episode, I have been looking all over Southern Ontario and comparing prices, age, etc. One day soonish....but for the meantime, if you are land locked like I am, the sunfish or similar is a really great suggestion. And, as a cottage hack....absofrickin-lutely, a good cottage rental for one week would be your yearly boat owning expense.
Furler and sail must be matched. Decide if you want to keep the sails you have then match the furler to them. Or plan on a new foresail, cut and sewn to go with the new furler.
p.s. I love my CDI
Agree with everything but you could definitely get on the water much cheaper. I’m in Texas and Catalina 22 are a dime a dozen going from $1500-$2500 for a sailing boat with outboard and trailer. With a trailer you can park in your driveway for free and if it isn’t stored in saltwater the bottom paint will last a decade and those boats are so plentiful new parts are affordable and still sold by Catalina and used parts/sails are plentiful and very cheap. I’d highly suggest that route for a new sailor so they don’t get overwhelmed with costs.
I looked into slips here in California, your not getting away with $400 a month all in. IMO a trailer boat is the only real affordable option.
@@winduncan9818plus the marinas aren’t safe. My buddy has a yacht by San Francisco and a bunch of the boats have been broken into and even some stolen and run aground further down the coast and completely stripped of electronics and other valuables…
Iike your comments about hanked on vs furling jib. Funny story: I used to have a hanked on genny on my pearson 26 and, after rigging a downhaul that went back to the cockpit, learned how to flake it on the deck on take down. I’d steer with the tiller between my knees, downhaul in one hand, and halyard in the other. I’d steer a little bit to one side of the wind, then the other while taking down, and the wind would flake the sail for me on the deck. 😂😂😂. Of course this was in moderate wind…
All depends on the boat and location, of course. In Boca Raton or Ft. Lauderdale (FL), a slip with power and water costs a pretty penny. Not for the average Joe.
I would love that boat as I am a racer but now am thinking I need a cruising boat mix. But, I live in Arizona and would "cruise" on a lake. Still a good choice but I can't buy one here. So, I would recommend a Catalina or Capri. Here, the C-24 is very available and is raced. Same with the 25 and 28 and a few Capris are available. In fact, Catalina brand boots are available all over the country.
I have a 1980 W.D. Shock Santana 525. It has a 5hp long shaft Honda outboard. Twosets of sails and a trailer. If you can come to Tulsa, you can have it for 5k
Just a thought of mine
If you fave a good boat with 2 cabins, compare all costs with a small apartment with 2 bedrooms, facing the sea, both with all taxes.
A boat is MORE PRIVATE, MORE SECURE (marinas have security), and we can take our home with us, when traveling.
Don't a lot of places not let you sleep in the boat while docked though? So, you'd still have to go to a hotel at a bunch of locations
@@ChristoffRevan Didn't know that. Thanks.
Sounds great, but where I live in Michigan there is an 8-10 year waiting list for boat slips and then they run about $7,500 just for the summer. They can be purchased at private condo-style marinas, but run about $130,000 for a 30-ft slip… plus maintenance fees of about $1500/year, not even counting winter storage.
I am enjoying a small trailer sailer (I found an interesting old Expo Solar Sailer) but my desire for a larger boat seems unobtainable.
6:12 That pretty much describes my whole afternoon sailing, on my 19' day sailer. All this hectic work is kind of what makes sailing my boat fun. My "auto pilot" is a rope that holds the tiller in one position (sometimes I have to run back and use my foot to reposition it). I can lower my jib with a downhaul line I rigged up, but the rest of the experience is just as you described. Plus dealing with wakes of power boats.
On the other hand, I wonder if I'm getting too old for this. When I do get a 30' cruising boat, I think I'm going for furling jib AND main, all lines led to cockpit. Different kind of fun. (I'd like to keep both boats, though.)
I’ve had a similar experience with a roller that I couldn’t get in, Hank on sails for me ever since.
add in the insurance and the fuel costs. Then add in expense when something breaks - and it will.
$500/month for up to 30 foot slip (6 months-ish) and $2500 for winter storage (also 6 months-ish) or more here in northern Lake Michigan area...
Hey Tim, iive got an Mac Wester Wight sloop 30ft gonna sail the world! From friesland the Netherlands!!! Just moved from my depressing appartement to my boat the Black Tulip! Keeping the heavy side down!
That's fantastic! You can do it!
You gotta do a video, or maybe 3, about stepping the mast. That is the sailor’s biggest pain in the…. Sure, if you’re young you can probably muscle it up there, but even then, if a gust of wind catches you at mid-hoist, you can be introduced to instant terror. Last year I got an O’day Mariner, and I could get by with the mechanical advantage of the Mainsheet…if there was no wind. This year I got a too-good-to-pass-up deal on a Starwind 19, and I swear the mast feels about twice as heavy. So, I resorted to a gin pole. Didn’t like that by itself because the mast still wanted to wag from side to side. So I read up on mini-stays and they seemed like it would take a bunch of line or hardware to get them to line up with the centerline of the mast pin. Then I found a variation that solved the riddle for me. I used a line to run up to something like a double block pulley. The line is long enough to reach from a crossbar on one side of the trailer, up to the pulley and down to the end of the gin pole. Then it goes back up to the double block and down to the opposite side of the trailer crossbar. By the way, the double block is hooked onto the jib halyard so it can raise and lower the rig. Then I attached the Mainsheet to the gin pole and forestay youknow. So with the mast supported by the mast base and two lines that continually adjust to the correct length-to control the side to side movement of the mast-you have the three points necessary to define a plane. In a word, you’ve got stability…w hitch is a sworn enemy of terror.
Take REALLY good care of your motor if you’re going to think of it as a safety net. A lot of sailors neglect and abuse their motors and then it doesn’t start when they really need it.
I have minimal sailing experience, however I'm ASA certified for a few courses and am confident of a couple of things: 1.) Mistakes on bigger boats are... BIGGER. Learn to sail smaller boats and then advance. Sure, you can jump to a massive boat if your wallet permits, but mistakes can be not only costly but dangerous. 2.) Also, remember the law of cascading failures: When something goes wrong, it's extremely probable that something else is about to go wrong. When two things go wrong, three is right around the corner. React to safety the situation then stop and think. What are you missing? Godspeed to all who ride the wind.
Sailing itself is not expensive as the wind is free. Owning a boat (and I am not talking about something smaller than 25ft), on the other hand can get very expensive if things go wrong and/or are worn out. So let’s get real about all of this. Marina fees, my 1974 30ft boat in my local marina costs $6k per year to keep it in its floating berth. Annual boat registration is cheap $100, insurance is $1600. Fuel costs really depend on how often one uses the boat and how much you use the boat.. Now my boat cost $32K but it’s two previous owners invested around $35K in maintenance costs over about a 4-6 yr period, inc a new Volvo penta D1-30 engine, new folding prop, new sails, new furler, new Harken 40 primary winches, new B&G wind instrument, new sheets, quite a lot of new interior paintwork/all external timber trims revarnished etc. So did myself and my co-owner get a bargain, possibly. However, at some stage we will want to have the boat completely repainted (est cost $6K +), replace the outdated chartplotter (est $1k), dinghy ($1K), new anchor ($1K), new compass ($500), plus a myriad of potential gear upgrades etc, so again this is likely to cost quite a few thousand. We do its annual maintenance (scrub/antifoul/annodes servicing etc - but even this costs perhaps all up $500-1K.
So taking all of this into consideration no owning a boat isn’t cheap, but it’s a lifestyle activity that I want to do. So, i am ok in accepting the costs in owning and running a boat so I can go sailing. Oh and at some point in the not too distant future the running rigging is going to have to be replaced, so that’s going to be around another $6K.
So think it all through before buying a boat.
Sorry Lady K sailing but that’s the reality of this activity.
Boat ownership is expensive. My advice has always been to go to your local yacht club or mariner and let your presence be known. You'll get a ride and it will cost you virtually nothing.
Too true mate, and that is why for the first 8 years after taking up sailing it’s all I did, sailed on other people’s boats, club racing, coastal cruising and offshore passages. The itch finally came though to get my own boat. How long will I own it, who knows ?? For the time being I am enjoying it.
@@1240enzo One could go with a small simple 15 ft open sailboat, e.g. a cat boat.
Plenty of space without a cabin.
It should of course have positive buoyancy (can't sink even if the boat is filled with water) - a smallish bimini is also a good addition.
I guess as a younger Millennial who only has a couple hundred dollars left for savings after living costs are accounted for each month should ditch the idea of sailing then... 😅 Same with flying airplanes
@@1240enzo The way that you did it is the perfect introduction to the sport. And, with all respect to your endeavour, anyone can do it.
I had my a$$ hanging out of my jeans when I took up sailing. The biggest financial hurdle that I had to overcome was finding enough small change for the bar after the race. My bicycle could find its own way home (Dad's garage!) from the yacht club!
Just here to feed the algorithm monsters and tapping the thumbs up 👍 button.
Sailing is good until you have to replace a mast, sails, rigging, and so on. The best going today is a solar yacht with electric motors. Limited maintenance and free sun translates into always available power.
Thanks it gives me hope,
At 25$ an hour and living close to the beach in Florida I was ready to get my first boat. I probably could have done it with much less but I have to take care of my child.
You did the right thing. There will be a boat in your future.
Boat ownership might be a step to far at this point, but if you can at least find time, you can always crew on someone else's yacht. That will cost you a bit of petrol money
and maybe a small insurance fee when you go out. Gear is easy to source second hand. I had my backside hanging out of my jeans when I first started sailing.
Last thing i expected to hear in this video was the phrase "Oriental, North Carolina"
I haven't thought of home in some time. It's a cute little town with some great seafood festivals
One of my favourite places to visit
@@LadyKSailing I moved to Florida back in 2009, but originally from that area- hobucken, new Bern, Oriental. Glad to see it getting some love here!
I also love that you're breaking down how to approach sailing with a frugal mindset. I'm more of a camper than a sailor, but I appreciate alternative lifestyle and hobbies that bring us closer to nature
Excellent, thanks.
I'll give you an ep. topic soon on my latest misadventures.
As someone in the process with there first boat, get insurance for emergency water towing. First time out engine blew and was unable to sail back to port. $$$
It's very expensive if you have to keep your boat at a marina. Summer fee's, winter fees, haul out/launch fees, maintenance, insurance, etc. The bigger the boat, the more $$$$ to just own it.
Sailboat (Freedom 25): $4000
Dry cleaning cushion covers: $100
Replacing missing spinnaker pole: $100
Replacing missing staysail: $150
Moving boat from one Finger Lake to another: $1600 (could have motored it, but it would be three days)
Slip fee: $2000
Stepping mast: $160
Upgrading electrical panel: $35
Upgrading lights to LEDs: $50
Replacing lazyjacks: $30
Shore power cable: $30
Registration: $60
Winter storage: $650 ($500 to store, $150 to pull)
Enjoyment: -$10,000
So far, we're ahead in enjoyment by about $1000.
I like it!
It's not the fall that kills you it's the sudden stop.
Believe it or not you can even have AC these days on a little solar panel. I'm partial to the ecoflow products but theres other companies that make good portable units. my little wave 2 does a good job keeping my 10x12 foot room cool and can be run all day off a 200w panel.
Sailing can be as expensive as you want or, as Cheap as you want, is your solo choice , and on were ever your budget can afford, cut that in half , then go sailing , if you ever catch your self thinking about costs , its time to sell it before is too late
Hey Lady K, we’re super into your content, and are working on going sailing full time. This video is titled a bit different than the content, are you planning a series out of this? Thanks for all the great info!
How are the videos going on painting the Lady K?
Very curious how that turned out! Looking forward to seeing the finished product
Coming soon!
Up hauls and down hauls led back to the cockpit fix your hank on jib issues
Also, set it up at the slip and stick one sail tie around the sail and a lifeline (or whatever). It's really not a big deal.
Hey Tim, loved this video like so many others before. I hope you someday come over to Europe and take a look at the sailing scene here...and become available as a guide in buying a sailboat this side of the Atlantic. Next one will be my second boat. First one was a Lagoon 440 and that was a bit too much boat for someone not knowing sh*t, so I would like to get some help this time around.
Again, love your videos!
That would be cool! Thanks so much for watching!
Marinas are getting expensive in VA. From $3500 to $6800 for a 40 ft slip
Plus insurance is difficult on older boats..have to prove a min of 5 yrs of boat ownership to be eligible
Perfect! Well done Tim.
Many thanks!
Excellent video.
I really like this channel.
Thank you very much!
Today I made the sub 300 mark in likes on both here and on PS! That makes today a GREAT day! 🙂
I did the mistake of moving my boat to where I have my house many years ago. Here they want 1.200$ to put the boat on shore to clean and reapply the bottom pain, then 1.200$ again to put it back to sea, the place where I had my boat before 7 days sailing away I did pay 500 $ total and that included 1 month of renting space on shore to get the work done. Now the boat is rotting away where it stands as I can not afford to pay that much ...
If you are fortunate enough to find a boat that was cared for by its previous owners, then sailing can be fairly inexpensive. The only expensive part of my own experience so far is the slip at my marina. Routine maintenance, as a DIYer, are all very reasonable - so far.
Great information, thanks Tim! Marty
Glad it was helpful!
Holy smokes you have expensive marinas. I thought my spot in Norway was expensive at $1000/yr. The usual ones are around $400/yr but they will require a $4000 deposit. Electricity is usually extra.
LKS…lots of talk about some of the disadvantages of a production boat. But is there an advantage as well? Meaning more readily available parts, people who know how to work on it, etc? Thanks for all the lessons
The main advantage of a good production boat is it should be easier to sell when the time comes to move on. Other than that, not much, as most were built down to a price and so only of average quality at best. Parts availability for production boats is rarely an advantage because builders don’t provide support for their older models. Example, Beneteau went through a phase of fitting fancy curved windows to provide skylights. Once these crack or craze replacements are impossible to find, and to have a specialist fabricate them would cost almost as much as those 30 year old boats are worth.
Look for a well known design such as Sparkman and Stephens, and a quality build where off-the-shelf ports and hatches etc have been used. Assuming that you have some ability to fix things like electric wiring and cosmetics, good canvas work, sails and rigging are more important than a production nameplate.
Yeah I'll just get a boat and start sailing from el paso texas. Sounds legit
Buying the boat is relatively cheap, it's the cost of ownership that's expensive. Insurance, marina fees, maintenance, rigging etc..and an outboard isn't much good in rough seas which I found
to my cost because the engine is lifted out of the water meaning the impeller isn't sucking cooling water through it resulting in overheating. This happened to me in rough seas, ended up running aground and incurring large recovery fees after the coast guard towed it onto a beach. Sailing is a great pastime but you'll need to be well off. A dinghy is good compromise
for the non rich among us.
Tohatsu absolutely is not Mercury... Tohatsu & Nissan are the same. However Tohatsu & Mercury have a contract where Mercury rebadges some smaller model Tohatsu outboards.
Yes Tohatsu is about 10 steps above Mercury. But it is good to know you can get parts at a Mercury dealer if need be.
Correct. I have a 2018ish 8 HP "mercury" which is absolutely a Tohatsu.
For every 100k you spend on your boat expect to drop 12k per year over a 5 year period plus depreciation. If thats not expensive for you then go for it.