My wife is confused as to how I've recently become a seemingly educated expert on wildfire behavior. I've not told her it's your wonderfully articulated videos, keep it up, it's fascinating.
In the late ‘70’s I worked for the U.S. Forest Circus. I was a Helitack firefighter. In those days initial attack was EVERYTHING. Of course the bureaucratic financial issues always caused policy change, not the other way around. If a fiscal year was relatively wet, with few large fires it was inevitable that the following fiscal year the budget would be cut because we obviously didn’t need the money. Guess what, that year would end up dry, with lots of fire and fewer crews to fly. Then the eco freaks “infiltrated” the USFS, and things have been FUBAR ever since. Forest management ain’t rocket science. 👍🏼great job JB.
I have to mention this because I've been in this state my whole life (4 decades). Its the same people who took all the federal money approved by voters for a monorail system down the middle of the 405 freeway from the vally to LAX. Was to reduce pollution from car emissions, and stress and accidents from heavy traffic. That money was used up for a study on its enviromental impact. 100 million or so in federal funds that were funneled away from the actual project into overblown studies. I'll just out an say it; look into our own treasurer, and Nevada's. There's a deepstate scam that is going on and has been for too many years that exists between the state government, universities, and international concerns. China is getting some of our money too; why would San Fransisco hire a chinese company to rebuild one of thier bridges across the bay? Whats up with that? Our country not good enough for those crooks? They hope you're too busy or too afraid of something to remember all these, little, "indescrepencies" to bring attention to it. Vote for Larry or get out of my state. No more mr. nice california.
I was stationed in CA for 2 years _decades_ ago, and the *same lesson* (consequences from "decades of good intentions") had already been _well learned_ at that time. Seems Californians need to hoist their tourism leaders by their pitards and teach them their own long-term interests, and let go of their year-on-year interests. I love NoCal, but I have no interest in visiting with these incessant fires. California is a caricature of itself.
Not only did you hit the nail on the head, Juan, but with some of us former forest folks, (Forest Service, State Forestry, and loggers), you're preaching to the choir! When the priorities don't work, change the priorities! I believe, on the logging end of things, build fire lines around each section, that a clear space should be logged around the section of land to be logged. My father harvested his own lands once every 20 years. A number of loggers use similar timelines and recommend those practices to landowners. How much easier would it be to fight a fire if there were already fire brakes around a lot of the properties? Proactive, not reactive should be the Forest Services motto!
City based politicians selling simplistic solutions to gullible Nimby city folk. The long term damage done by the likes of Graham Richardson when he shut down sustainable yield forestry to court the city green vote goes on and on. In this modern era, biomass has value. Harvesting it in a pattern similar to proscribed burning but on a finer more granular scale can slow fire spread, protect life and property, maintain habitat and sequester carbon. The added bonuses are employment creation, noxious weed control and air quality improvement. Forest management is more than just a fire stick.
@@scottp.5161 The power of well managed grazing is so under appreciated. The goat crews that manage invasive plants need to be in the running for environmental awards. The in depth research and application of grazing techniques by Alan Savory in Africa and around the world along with all the dedicated people he has inspired and trained shows how we can utilize nature to fix nature. Animal husbandry and forestry are necessary elements for the survival of humanity and the planet.
@@direwolf6234 yep, all in the hands of America's enemy, how much mayhem, death and suffering will that cause. I wonder how much fire fighting aircraft, fire trucks and forest management $85,000,000,000.00 would buy? I guess we could have filled the skies with air tankers just like the fleets of bombers that attacked Germany during WWII plus built thousands of beautiful summer cabins, designed to blend into the nature of a National Forest, that could be rented out very reasonably to families, with limited incomes, that otherwise could have never afforded what would be a dream vacation to them.
Thank you for exposing the perverse incentive against controlled burns produced by California’s irrational AQI rules. I’m a lifetime CA resident and hadn’t ever heard about this before now. The scheduling of such burns should be based solely on fire-prevention needs, without regard for the numbers on some bureaucratic quarterly report!
Doing control burns again will work great. However, these fires are a great scapegoat for global warming affects. Some people in power simply tell us after a large fire, it's the rest of the worlds fault this is happening in our communities.
I'm right on board with you Juan when it comes to forest management.Absolutely!I live near the SoCal mountains communities in San Bernardino whenever I am recreating out there it is very disturbing the gross neglect of these forests.Just an absolute tinderbox!!!
Most CL 215's and subsequent models all have a foam concentrate tank on board that can inject foam concentrate into the water load as they carry it from the lake to the fire. It mixes in the air. In Alberta we use foam as a Standard Operating Procedure to help the water soak more easily into the fuel as well as to smother the fire (to a degree) and also to mark the load so we can see exactly what we have covered. It enhances the effectiveness of water by a significant amount. At the concentration we use, it is environmentally benign although we still have to be careful to not drop in any watercourses. As for hitting a really hot fire, we currently use our CL215Ts (which I prefer, as the drop pattern with the 2 doors is more concentrated than with a 415) in a group of 4 with line astern tactics most of the time so within 1 minute or so we can have 4 x 1500 gallons on a really hot target. We also have found that if you cant get right on top of the crowning fire it is almost as effective to do a banking drop just behind the head with the multiple tankers. What happens is the indraft from the from the oxygen-hungry fire head will actually draw the load right down into the head and effectively massively change the RH . With quick turnarounds from a close lake and if possible also using retardant tankers to build a line ahead of the burn at the same time you can quite often change the situation in your favour.
Amazing technical description. I’ve been lobbying our politicians for more of these types of aircraft instead of repurposed, non-mission-specific planes that take far longer turnarounds. I’m all for all approaches, and all measures, including more effective forest management.
Amen. Exactly. It is infuriating to watch this insanity go on. When I tell people the facts about prescribed burn vs wildfire and the AQI deal they look at me like I am nuts. 40 plus years of this and we are now reaping what we have sown.
As a victim of the cascade fire here in yuba County few years back.. it's Sad to se our forest go up in smoke here. Sad but until we get real leadership in ca that understands the importance of proper forest management we are in for this every year. Yet another record fire season
Here in the mid east coast of Florida, we have prescribed burns on a regular basis. Prescribed burns are advertised in local media so the fire department doesn't get bogged down with hundreds of phone calls. I enjoy your channel so much, thanks
You hit the nail on the head Juan, as a someone who was born and raised in California I had no idea what control burns where. Until I moved to central Arizona and saw them first hand. To help manage our beautiful forest. I wish California would adopt this policy. Also good ADM of the second scooper crew.
They do some prescribed burns in California but only when conditions are right, practically perfect. On that one perfect day, all forests light up their projects simultaneously. Several years ago I witnessed prescribed burns in Yosemite National Park and in Calaveras Big Trees and D. L. Bliss State Parks on the same day. There were probably others as well. With the increased number of structures built in forested areas, it becomes less likely that a burn can be prescribed without risk to structures regardless of weather and forest conditions. The alternative, multi-year deferral, results in what you see now. It's axiomatic in bureaucratic institutions that it's easier to diffuse blame for negligence than to make a decision and be personally responsible for the consequences.
@@SpoilerAlert__ California is a huge state and how it is managed varies depending on the location. If the prescribed burn will send smoke to a city, good luck getting that done. If the smoke goes into the wilderness??? The off-road vehicle Red Sticker program. During the summer, if the exhaust goes toward a city, not allowed. If the exhaust flows into a forest, no problem. Carnegie OHV Park is restricted during the summer, though I doubt Tracy would ever notice the minimal extra smog. Drag that dirt bike inland 100 miles, there are unrestricted OHV areas. Though it all goes into the atmosphere. Plus driving a truck 200 miles. Yea, California! 🙄
Great information Mr. Brown. For over 20 years we, urban forsters and landscape management and developers, tried to tell Nevada and California to manage these forest or they will have a catastrophic impact on our country if they burn. They never listen
wow! Using ME 109's and a Spitfire too! (8:44) Back in the day, I used to see Avengers, Catalinas working the fires. I think they used B-17's. Used to be like a WW2 airshow. But I never saw an ME-109 or Spitfire.
Excellent commentary about AQI and the practicality of good forest practices as they relate to mega fires. Excellent in-service abt the use of water scooters vs. air tankers carrying retardant.
The Sugar Fire (Beckwourth Complex) seems to be a perfect example of what happens when we don’t keep small fires small. It burned for two days at least within a footprint of just a few hundred acres around Sugar Loaf Mountain. From what I heard from family living just a few miles away, everyone thought it was contained. Then July 7 came…. (May have been July 6, I don’t remember exactly, but that doesn’t matter much now.)
Which politicians? The Republicans or Democrats? Both have been in power over the decades that this situation has developed. In addition, climate change has been operating over the decades we’ve seen the fire intensity increase. There is not a single “cause” that can be attributed to the situation. It is systemic and decades long in operation.
Two comments 1) one of the reasons that the fires tend to die down at night is because the humidity rises at night and the humidity lowers during the daylight hours. 2) the CL-415s have the capability to use foam which makes the water 3-5 times more effective because the foam reduces the water’s cohesion (i.e. it allows the water to spread out and penetrate further into the fuels). However the Forest Service and some state forestry departments have rules about using chemicals to suppress fires because of the potential of polluting the water sources or streams which MAY affect the fish. FYI I flew for the NC Forest Service for 15 years as a helicopter pilot and Air Supervisor. You are most correct in stating that prescribed burning is an effective way of reducing the fuel load in the Forest bed. To often the way the small fires gain such tremendous momentum is simply because a lack of reduction of the ladder fuels and crowning occurs. Crowning releases a tremendous amount of heat energy and rapidly increases the rate of spread.
Here on the East slopes of the Cascades along the Columbia River we have seen several fires that were hit very hard and fast. As at these lower levels most of the burnables are sage brush and grass. A good example was last weekend when a small fire started at about 4:30 PM. By 5:30 six fire bosses were on the fire using the Columbia River for water. Tankers out of Moses Lake were on the scene shortly after that. The country helicopter was also dropping water on the fire. By 9:00 PM the fire was basically out with full containment the next day. The water drops or really well on this kind of vegetation since it is low growth.
I was a logger in North Idaho in the late sixties through the seventies. Forest Service timber sales generated funds for forest management and access roads in the forests. Loggers burned their slash and the Forest Service was easily able to brush and thin and do prescribed burns to areas prone to fire due to road access. These roads were torn up during the Clinton Administration, thus eliminating access. Forests have always burned from the beginning of time. It kills off the bugs that kill trees and makes for a healthy forest. logging accomplishes the same thing.
Fighting fires in California is extremely dangerous for this reason, if an access road even exists anymore, it’s too dangerous to actually use because when the fire actually comes, giant trees fall and cut off the exits. They have to clear the road and any hazards as they go, as the fire is burning. Homeowners also don’t manage their land these day either.
@@Garth2011 Before Jimmy Carter came along the Forest Service policy was focused on sustainable timber harvest and management self funded by timber sales. The "tree hugger" mentality changed things for the worse.
@@aron8949 We loggers fought fires all the time. In fact, at times we were drafted to by the Forest Service to fight fires close to areas we were working. We had equipment and manpower that could quickly respond.
There s another cool video on here "SEVEN Canadair CL-415 water bombers Firefighting in l'Aquila (Italy) - Italian Vigili del Fuoco" incredible flying skills. Cheers for keeping us updated.
Juan; Another very good presentation and explanation also with excellent graphics. I am kind of a hydro aviation nut. You remember the Be-200 in Greece. That is an excellent airframe and the crash was, as you know, CFIT in VFR. The top 2 planes for both water and retardant are the CL-415 and the Beriev. Now also is the AVIC AG600, but it is not yet operational. The better tech for air tankers has been there for decades. This is not to mention the possible use of the same airframe for cargo and passenger operations. Where do you build another aerodrome for LA? Simple, somewhere around LA, San Pedro or Long Beach harbors. The "runways" are already there and no extra expense of an island airport that sinks all the time. Eliminate the "middleman". Thanks again.
Great point about the AQI and pollution standards! Prescribed burns, conducted during winter/rain months, are the best longterm solution. Prescribed fires do reduce fuel loads and, when coupled with good forest management, provide jobs and timber materials for the market.
The ruling cadre prefer that we buy our lumber from Canada and let nature "manage" our forests with wildfires. They also like the political power and money game of taxing people to operate a huge multi-state fire bureaucracy. Some of us would prefer a local timber industry, prescribed burns and laws requiring very fire resistant building and maintenance practices in forested areas.
One problem with the timber industry is they prefer the Healthy trees. Which leaves the diseased, damaged, and pest infested/damaged trees behind. What does that do? That alters the genetics very slowly to make the trees even more susceptible to pests, disease, fire, and damage/injury. If the timber industry took the damaged, diseased and pest infested/damaged trees first and left the Healthy trees standing, that would help make the forests less susceptible to diseases, pests, and even fires. Another thing that the timber industry does is clear cut an area of forest. This is also just as bad, because this does not leave many trees if any trees behind to help with soil erosion. Then when heavy rains come the area that is clear cut is more susceptible to mud slides and heavy soil erosion. But things are improving in the timber industry, but not fast enough.
@Matthew Groff it reminds me of back when i was commercial fishing. they only ones that gave a hoot about stock replenishment was the mom-and-pop operations while the government backed factory ships raped the fishing grounds and went their merry way. if the government agency can't wrap their arms around the problem, then the problem needs resolved by others. i'm pretty sure common ground could be found and a reclamation plan hammered out.
It's hard to find unbiased information on this topic. But I think it's safe to say harvesting trees can make things better or worse depending on how and where it's done. Often, the most fire resistant forests are ones with large trees. The large trees don't have many low branches to catch fire (many western trees have fairly fire resistant bark). Also large trees reduce the growth of brush and smaller trees under them reducing the fire hazard further. In these types of forests, low fires can burn through and remove the undergrowth that is there without harming many of the large trees. When the big trees are cut the replacement forest may be low and brushy for decades. This can increase the fire hazard. A big advantage to a robust timber industry is that it provides an incentive and money to manage the forests. Unfortunately it can be hard to sell long term strategies like pre-commercial thinning (PCT) -- the removal of some small trees so the others can grow faster -- where money is spent now but the profits are decades away.
The CH-47s carry about the same depending on vintage and have been doing a great job if water is close by. They also resupply hose line pumper tanks (plastic pools) in remote locations. They and the SEAT's have done a great job here along with the few BAE146's not in Cal. Of course they have a high operating cost but, their still a low cost way to log hard to get to locations rather than fight fire. Its strange that the CL's are the only aircraft designed to fight fire and everything else are, make do hand me downs
Canuck here. Not Bombardier really. Canadair in it's bones. When Bombardier couldn't make it work, they sold it. The type certificates for all Canadair CL are owned by Viking Air. They also own the type certificates for De Havilland aircraft manufactured in Canada by DH. Building new/upgraded Twin Otters today. They've also upgraded the CL-415 with new technology and the ability to assume a multi mission role. The CL-515. I've flown in a Beaver Viking refurbished/rebuilt. Beautiful aircraft. Coulda sworn it was brand new. A 60 year old carcass but you'd never know from looking at it. Looked fresh off the lot. They employ some amazing craftsman. There are many applications for the CL aircraft. They're capable of things few other bombers are. Far more agile than other aircraft we see in our area with the exception of the AT-802F. Spain and France have large fleets of CLs. I watched them in 2014 working above our farm. Also the Mars in one of it's last years. It was early days for the ATs in BC but they were there too. Amazing how much money they'll throw at a moderate fire when a government communications site is threatened. But the CLs impressed me most as they seemed to be able to match the ATs pretty close in terms of proximity to the ground and effectiveness on the target. Similar turn time to an AT but more water. The only aircraft ever purpose built for fire suppression. All other bombers are modified aircraft. Alberta loaned BC their CL-215s this summer. They were stationed at the local airport. Got a chance to get a close up look. Watched them fill and drop. Made me wish I was a pilot. And younger...
The pilots of these planes are amazing, cool, and nerves of steel. Truly a special group of pilots. Thank you Juan and a Big Thank You to the fire fighting pilots.
Juan you are correct. In the 90’s and into the 2000’s we had an active prescribed burn program in California. In the mid 2000’s the public and environmental groups loudly complained about the prescribed burns making their Springtime skies gray. So much so that prescribed burning was throttled and defunded. For the past 5-10 years we are seeing the results. Add to that the drought of the past 5 years and we get these huge fires. Bring prescribed burning back, and remove the air quality impacts from the calculations of the AQI.
JB and friends- the main issue with "forest maintenance" is that you really aren't going to go and rake up all the normal debris and litter that covers the forest floor. That's why prescribed burns are good, and those occasionally go awry....go figure. Still, a little by little approach to living near a forest is the best medicine. יוי
In my understanding a fair majority of the Cl 215/415 have been updated with fire gel dispenser systems. But yes they have limited effectiveness but they are the most efficient water dispensing systems available. In a perfect world you wouldn’t have forest fire but here we are.
@Waxel Punkt. Turkey has an firefighting fleet with I think 9 CL... But because of bad management, maintenance issues and politics not operable... Address the problem to mr. Erdogan... it is really a shame for such big country... I think momently on whole European Mediterranean coast, only Turkey and Albania are in problem... After Carmel fire even Israel has a AFF yet...
@@Garth2011 Yup, he received $75,000 from PG&E when they said they had no money to pay fire victims. The fire victims were paid with PG&E stock which is now worth 50% less.
British Columbia has adopted this kind of thinking ,cleaning up fuel around population areas ,spending millions to log out and mitigate high fuel areas ,pay now to prevent or pay later to fight !
Honestly, from what I have seen, I'm not impressed with the way the Feds fight fires. I see a lot of politics, and very little actual firefighting. I'm talking about past fires in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana. I've seen small fires "allowed" to become giant out of control fires for no reason. I see a lot of terrible decision making, which makes the state and local fire fighters scratch their heads (if they haven't already been kicked off the fire yet by the Feds). I hate to be too negative, but just remember this is our Federal government fighting these fires. We are so fast to label everyone as heroes (by design), but not as bureaucratic yes men. I'm not in California, but when I see your boundaries being overrun time and time again, that's politics. I call it the sit and retreat tactic.
As an ex-Fire Marshall, I can say with full confidence, that the level of wildfires being experienced in California was totally preventable. But the tree-huggers that are all fired up emotionally but in ignorance of the reality, were just as much at fault as the state government. PG&E is also complicit in the destruction of these forests and wild lands.
@@kingsley3208 Right. If those environmentalists really cared and had a brain they would have been working to try to avoid climate change that has brought us severely hot years and dried out the forests. Hmmm, wait a sec...
@@kingsley3208 Not ignored at all. With better management, the fire spread would have been minimized for the conditions. No way it wasn't going to burn.
Juan, what you’re saying makes sense. You have to ask yourself what people have to gain by preventing change and progress and do those fighting progress understand the implications of their actions? It’s a matter of managing, controlling, and limiting the damage. It’s going to happen, but to some degree it sounds like we can dictate it through taking proactive managing actions. I know they carry out some controlled burns in Oregon where I’m based, because I’ve seen them doing it near Bend.
In 2017 (year of another CA debacle, Oroville spillway fail...when I started following JB) we had 2 forest fires burning in NC. located so whichever wind blew the state was choke smoke. Packed travel trailer, went to Banff NP Alberta. By August we were being chased out there by fires. Now live in UT. Same switch. Can't hide from an angry Mother
One of the major obstacles is the ability to do prescribed burns. Whether its CalFire or, National Forest Service, the amount of laws & regs have hampered the ability of the forest managers to do prescribed burns. EPA, CARB, neighborhood HOA, local gov legislator, etc... all can run to a judge or, forest official and get a scheduled burn halted. Meanwhile, the window to safely do this burn passes and that forest manager has to wait months if not years for the right conditions and manpower resources available in an attempt re-start the process.
One great point you just brought up at the end of this video is keeping the fires small. The Dixie fire, from the Wikimedia post, said it was probably started by the down tree hitting the power lines. The PG&E maintenance person was on his way and so were the fire crews. By the time everyone got on the fire it was only about 4 to 5 acres and air support was on it. So how did a 4 acre fire blow up to 800,000 acres ?? That's the real question. Just like the Beckwourth Complex fire. I rode up to Portola on the 5th of July. Beautiful day. Rode past Beckwourth and saw fire fighters, fixed wings and air tankers ready to fight fires. I also saw some smoke coming up over Beckwourth and Genesee pass. It was about less than a 1000 acres on that Monday. Tuesday we got the alert in Doyle that it had blown up to 10,000 acres by the weekend it was 50,000 then it destroyed Doyle California. Unbelievable that they can't control these fires when they are small
They go direct basically on the flames , scooper are made in Canada perfect for there and Alaska vast open land launch a pair of these they get on scene quick and with a body of water near by 2 of these can be deadly on containment, here in California with our drought sites are becoming few between thank you sir Big fan your a great source of information
We here in QLD. Australia are employing the philosophy of prescribed burning as you call it(hazard reduction, here), in order to reduce fuel load in the event I'd a bush fire breaking out. I think that should be the way to go, in these fires. Just my opinion🙂
Incredible to watch those CL-415, in one day they were able to support knocking down both East and West side of Davis. It was really windy, those guys rocked it.
Logging, grazing, and controlled burns are absolutely necessary to forest health. Yes, the forest used to take care of itself, but now we've put our homes and communities in fire's path so we need a different strategy.
@CLdriver1960 - Thank You Sir (since i've assumed you're male and that you were rated) A Question Please? in the footage why would you say the PIC went around? I'm wondering if the aircraft got updraft above the water there and pilot didn't care to push it ?
@@mrwest5552 I Have flown the 415, but I’m not rated on it. Looks like he came in a little too fast and high, as seen from the pitch attitude, and floated in the flare. It may be the camera zoom, but that lake looks rather small, especially when you see how low over the trees bomber #1 is. That’s my WAG (wild a$$ guess)
Once again you have hit the nail square on the head!!!!!!!!! Money to fight fire comes through like magic vs money to manage. AND this I didn’t know, air quality counts on prescribed burns but NOT on forest fires……. Law makers have their heads where the sun doesn’t shine. IMH. Once again Juan thanks for sharing all you immense knowledge.
Thanks for talking about the CL415 and its use. Seems they would be good at putting out a new small fire before it gets really big. They beat helicopters at this. Faster and more water dropped per load.
@@larsord9139 actually they are accurate, see a video of one unloading on a village place. In Europe, most CL pilots are retired air force officers and they practice all year for decades
We tried to fund two scooper planes in Napa County and were shut down by CalFire. We were able to fund two Fire Boss planes for rapid NapaCounty response but were denied by Napa County Board if Supervisors.
G,day Brownie from Sydney Australia. Australian bushland has a (7) year fuel load cycle. This is enough time for the consideration of hazard reduction burning. * Building development control is "now" the primary defence. In other words- 'if you want to live in bushland you pay for it.' * Our local governments are mapping: for roadways, main water supply: which is much safer than self sufficient buildings. * Controlling authority must ensure adequate seperation and materials reducing the spread of fire. 🌏🇦🇺
Hi Juan, I learn so much from your videos that you are the first person I wanted to support on Patreon. Of course, there is so much about wildfires I wish I didn't need to know. Anyway, thanks for the content.
If it doesn't rain and long term severe droughts are the norm it won't matter what type of forest management practices you use because the eventual outcome will be ever more parts of the region becoming deserts.
Proper forest management would require actual work from the Feds, and they won’t have that. To them it’s better to have photo ops and long winded talks about “fixing” the problems.
I also agree with you about forest management, Juan. Thanks for your great educational videos, too! I would add that we have to look more at the human causations of extreme climate events (like our current drought) happening at a terrifying pace these days.
Thank you for the rant. So much of our summer here in Utah has been such bad air quality. Heaven knows we've got room to improve with our fire management, but all us Western states are in this together. So often what hurts one hurts all (see also: drought in the Colorado River watershed.)
Juan, you are 100% spot on! Air Quality index should apply to all air not just some air. Preventative forest management must happen starting today. How many homes need to burn before our government both state and federal get together on this and tell the lawyers to chase ambulances and not our fire fighter organizations who risk their lives trying to save our homes. it is totally unacceptable
Hi I am a back up pilot flying Water Bombers - it is the proven method to keep the fire from spreading and a hell of a plane to fly. Quick your day job and help out.
Some clear cutting in vulnerable places would help to reduce acceleration of leading edge of fires. Replant. As it is now fires will destroy forests annually, may as well sell the wood instead of letting it burn.
All I can say is..... I agree with the main problem is a lack of realistic forest planning, and the lack of logging, brush and fuel reduction programs, as well as unrealistic environmental regulations. Thanks Juan...
Viking Air now owns the type certs for the CL-215 & CL-415 aircraft. The high demand for them caused by climate change has prompted Viking Air to create a further updated version of the aircraft, the CL-515 which is technically now in production, but it has been delayed due to COVID-19...
Thanks for a good update. Have to wonder who's yanking whose chain these days in the Forest Service. Definitely needs to change. Higher-ups due for an overhaul. To my knowledge, the firefighters have been working hard - bless them and thanks. Why did Scooper #2 have to go around? Just because of the wind? Couldn't get enough room to land? He looked like he was pretty close to the same track as the 1st guy. Thanks again.
Great info on our government's selective use of AQI counted againt prescribed burns versus none for the "accidental" giant wildfires created due to lack of forest management. We are our own worst enemy.
Take a look at the Australian native aboriginal approach to fire management. Over tens of thousands of years they developed a system of controlled burns at the right time of year. Don't ignore the deep knowledge of indigenous people.!
Well stated WRT the lack of use of prescribed burns and the shitty forest management that allows the build up of fuel in the forest. I thought we learned that lesson in Yellowstone 20 some years back?
My wife is confused as to how I've recently become a seemingly educated expert on wildfire behavior. I've not told her it's your wonderfully articulated videos, keep it up, it's fascinating.
Come clean bud, she needs to know the truth!! 😂✌
If you want to become an Aircraft Firefighter expert, give my channel a look. You could confuse her again.
Even better than staying at a Holiday inn last night is attending BLU, Blancolirio University
In the late ‘70’s I worked for the U.S. Forest Circus. I was a Helitack firefighter. In those days initial attack was EVERYTHING. Of course the bureaucratic financial issues always caused policy change, not the other way around. If a fiscal year was relatively wet, with few large fires it was inevitable that the following fiscal year the budget would be cut because we obviously didn’t need the money. Guess what, that year would end up dry, with lots of fire and fewer crews to fly. Then the eco freaks “infiltrated” the USFS, and things have been FUBAR ever since. Forest management ain’t rocket science. 👍🏼great job JB.
AGREED...misfits are voted into jobs they know little about or are simply traitors.
Old Airtanker Co pilot here. Agreed 100%
@@Garth2011 Or both.
I have to mention this because I've been in this state my whole life (4 decades). Its the same people who took all the federal money approved by voters for a monorail system down the middle of the 405 freeway from the vally to LAX. Was to reduce pollution from car emissions, and stress and accidents from heavy traffic. That money was used up for a study on its enviromental impact. 100 million or so in federal funds that were funneled away from the actual project into overblown studies. I'll just out an say it; look into our own treasurer, and Nevada's. There's a deepstate scam that is going on and has been for too many years that exists between the state government, universities, and international concerns. China is getting some of our money too; why would San Fransisco hire a chinese company to rebuild one of thier bridges across the bay? Whats up with that? Our country not good enough for those crooks? They hope you're too busy or too afraid of something to remember all these, little, "indescrepencies" to bring attention to it. Vote for Larry or get out of my state. No more mr. nice california.
Map1915 ... Ditto. NPS policies during the 70's same. We chased and cold trailed em !
Preach it Juan. Decades of poorly executed good intentions. We are reaping the rewards now in these fires.
I was stationed in CA for 2 years _decades_ ago, and the *same lesson* (consequences from "decades of good intentions") had already been _well learned_ at that time. Seems Californians need to hoist their tourism leaders by their pitards and teach them their own long-term interests, and let go of their year-on-year interests. I love NoCal, but I have no interest in visiting with these incessant fires.
California is a caricature of itself.
These pilots are so bad-ass! God Bless all firefighters/first-responders!
Not only did you hit the nail on the head, Juan, but with some of us former forest folks, (Forest Service, State Forestry, and loggers), you're preaching to the choir!
When the priorities don't work, change the priorities!
I believe, on the logging end of things, build fire lines around each section, that a clear space should be logged around the section of land to be logged. My father harvested his own lands once every 20 years. A number of loggers use similar timelines and recommend those practices to landowners.
How much easier would it be to fight a fire if there were already fire brakes around a lot of the properties?
Proactive, not reactive should be the Forest Services motto!
Graze it, log it or watch it burn.
Well Said. Proactive is the way to go.
Environmentalists are dolts with blinders on. They take on a cause without any consideration of the consequences.
City based politicians selling simplistic solutions to gullible Nimby city folk.
The long term damage done by the likes of Graham Richardson when he shut down sustainable yield forestry to court the city green vote goes on and on.
In this modern era, biomass has value. Harvesting it in a pattern similar to proscribed burning but on a finer more granular scale can slow fire spread, protect life and property, maintain habitat and sequester carbon. The added bonuses are employment creation, noxious weed control and air quality improvement.
Forest management is more than just a fire stick.
@@scottp.5161 The power of well managed grazing is so under appreciated.
The goat crews that manage invasive plants need to be in the running for environmental awards.
The in depth research and application of grazing techniques by Alan Savory in Africa and around the world along with all the dedicated people he has inspired and trained shows how we can utilize nature to fix nature.
Animal husbandry and forestry are necessary elements for the survival of humanity and the planet.
There's never enough money to do it right, but there's always enough money to do it over.
Well said, unfortunately.
$85 billion sitting on evacuated air base....
@@direwolf6234 yep, all in the hands of America's enemy, how much mayhem, death and suffering will that cause. I wonder how much fire fighting aircraft, fire trucks and forest management $85,000,000,000.00 would buy? I guess we could have filled the skies with air tankers just like the fleets of bombers that attacked Germany during WWII plus built thousands of beautiful summer cabins, designed to blend into the nature of a National Forest, that could be rented out very reasonably to families, with limited incomes, that otherwise could have never afforded what would be a dream vacation to them.
@@samrock7632 you said it brother... 1 million seconds = 11.5 days .. 1 billion sec = 31.5 years ...
@@samrock7632 no wooden homes, build adobes.
Thank you for exposing the perverse incentive against controlled burns produced by California’s irrational AQI rules. I’m a lifetime CA resident and hadn’t ever heard about this before now. The scheduling of such burns should be based solely on fire-prevention needs, without regard for the numbers on some bureaucratic quarterly report!
Doing control burns again will work great. However, these fires are a great scapegoat for global warming affects.
Some people in power simply tell us after a large fire, it's the rest of the worlds fault this is happening in our communities.
@Waxel Punkt. I don't know if that Doverbeachcomber said sound like communist behavoir, but your reaction sound for sure like a bulshit.
I would not be surprised if that is a federal and not a state thing.
@Waxel Punkt. Sounds like too much bureaucracy and too little expertise on the ground and self regulation through enlightened democracy to me.
Could someone point to the actual AQI rules that are being criticized here? I'd like to see for myself. Thanks.
I'm right on board with you Juan when it comes to forest management.Absolutely!I live near the SoCal mountains communities in San Bernardino whenever I am recreating out there it is very disturbing the gross neglect of these forests.Just an absolute tinderbox!!!
From Crestline. I agree.
Most CL 215's and subsequent models all have a foam concentrate tank on board that can inject foam concentrate into the water load as they carry it from the lake to the fire. It mixes in the air. In Alberta we use foam as a Standard Operating Procedure to help the water soak more easily into the fuel as well as to smother the fire (to a degree) and also to mark the load so we can see exactly what we have covered. It enhances the effectiveness of water by a significant amount. At the concentration we use, it is environmentally benign although we still have to be careful to not drop in any watercourses. As for hitting a really hot fire, we currently use our CL215Ts (which I prefer, as the drop pattern with the 2 doors is more concentrated than with a 415) in a group of 4 with line astern tactics most of the time so within 1 minute or so we can have 4 x 1500 gallons on a really hot target. We also have found that if you cant get right on top of the crowning fire it is almost as effective to do a banking drop just behind the head with the multiple tankers. What happens is the indraft from the from the oxygen-hungry fire head will actually draw the load right down into the head and effectively massively change the RH . With quick turnarounds from a close lake and if possible also using retardant tankers to build a line ahead of the burn at the same time you can quite often change the situation in your favour.
Amazing technical description. I’ve been lobbying our politicians for more of these types of aircraft instead of repurposed, non-mission-specific planes that take far longer turnarounds.
I’m all for all approaches, and all measures, including more effective forest management.
Amen. Exactly. It is infuriating to watch this insanity go on. When I tell people the facts about prescribed burn vs wildfire and the AQI deal they look at me like I am nuts. 40 plus years of this and we are now reaping what we have sown.
As a victim of the cascade fire here in yuba County few years back.. it's Sad to se our forest go up in smoke here. Sad but until we get real leadership in ca that understands the importance of proper forest management we are in for this every year. Yet another record fire season
A few more years of this and the wildfires WILL BE the forest management. Ca and the surrounding areas will be very brown by then.
Here in the mid east coast of Florida, we have prescribed burns on a regular basis. Prescribed burns are advertised in local media so the fire department doesn't get bogged down with hundreds of phone calls. I enjoy your channel so much, thanks
easy to burn on flat terrain... not the same on 50% slopes....
You hit the nail on the head Juan, as a someone who was born and raised in California I had no idea what control burns where. Until I moved to central Arizona and saw them first hand. To help manage our beautiful forest. I wish California would adopt this policy. Also good ADM of the second scooper crew.
I was born and raised in New Jersey, and live in Virginia. I’ve seen prescribed burns and NJ barely even has forest fires.
They do some prescribed burns in California but only when conditions are right, practically perfect. On that one perfect day, all forests light up their projects simultaneously. Several years ago I witnessed prescribed burns in Yosemite National Park and in Calaveras Big Trees and D. L. Bliss State Parks on the same day. There were probably others as well. With the increased number of structures built in forested areas, it becomes less likely that a burn can be prescribed without risk to structures regardless of weather and forest conditions. The alternative, multi-year deferral, results in what you see now. It's axiomatic in bureaucratic institutions that it's easier to diffuse blame for negligence than to make a decision and be personally responsible for the consequences.
@@almaster666 the person above you literally said he saw 3 controlled burns in 1 day..
I live in globe Arizona. During the latest fire we had, they started a controlled burn and El Capitan had to be evacuated.
@@SpoilerAlert__ California is a huge state and how it is managed varies depending on the location.
If the prescribed burn will send smoke to a city, good luck getting that done. If the smoke goes into the wilderness???
The off-road vehicle Red Sticker program. During the summer, if the exhaust goes toward a city, not allowed. If the exhaust flows into a forest, no problem. Carnegie OHV Park is restricted during the summer, though I doubt Tracy would ever notice the minimal extra smog. Drag that dirt bike inland 100 miles, there are unrestricted OHV areas. Though it all goes into the atmosphere. Plus driving a truck 200 miles. Yea, California! 🙄
I’d vote for this voice of reason.
Great information Mr. Brown. For over 20 years we, urban forsters and landscape management and developers, tried to tell Nevada and California to manage these forest or they will have a catastrophic impact on our country if they burn.
They never listen
Developers need to stay out of the forest.
@@ruralangwin most towns have been there since gold rush days...
I came home today just in time to see two super scoopers overfly my house on their way back to Van Nuys airport via the Newhall Pass. Just too cool.
Excellent reporting sir. I thoroughly enjoy receiving facts and analysis without unnecessary emotion and drama.
wow! Using ME 109's and a Spitfire too! (8:44) Back in the day, I used to see Avengers, Catalinas working the fires. I think they used B-17's. Used to be like a WW2 airshow. But I never saw an ME-109 or Spitfire.
Reminds me of my time on a Seaplane Tender back in the mid 60's watching the beautiful Martin P5M Marlins coming in and taking off... thanks
Excellent commentary about AQI and the practicality of good forest practices as they relate to mega fires. Excellent in-service abt the use of water scooters vs. air tankers carrying retardant.
Holy crosswind, Batman!
The Sugar Fire (Beckwourth Complex) seems to be a perfect example of what happens when we don’t keep small fires small. It burned for two days at least within a footprint of just a few hundred acres around Sugar Loaf Mountain. From what I heard from family living just a few miles away, everyone thought it was contained. Then July 7 came…. (May have been July 6, I don’t remember exactly, but that doesn’t matter much now.)
I'd have to say that "Politician management" should be first on that list of prevention!
AGREED
@Waxel Punkt. Why did orange jesus let this happen? Plenty of rakes available...
Good point! It's always a good time to cut some overgrowth! Lol
@Waxel Punkt. Maybe the votes were rigged. Dems have been hurting CA for decades, you'd think most would vote otherwise
Which politicians? The Republicans or Democrats? Both have been in power over the decades that this situation has developed. In addition, climate change has been operating over the decades we’ve seen the fire intensity increase. There is not a single “cause” that can be attributed to the situation. It is systemic and decades long in operation.
Thank you Juan!
Much of our Country's infrastructure has suffered similar neglect🤣
Excellent run down on responsibilities and options available to prevent these large fires, thanks
Most informative explanation of the difference between water and retardant drops and realities of forest management I have ever heard. Thank you sir.
You Sir are a wonderful human being. Huge credibility and common sense . Thank you.
Two comments 1) one of the reasons that the fires tend to die down at night is because the humidity rises at night and the humidity lowers during the daylight hours. 2) the CL-415s have the capability to use foam which makes the water 3-5 times more effective because the foam reduces the water’s cohesion (i.e. it allows the water to spread out and penetrate further into the fuels). However the Forest Service and some state forestry departments have rules about using chemicals to suppress fires because of the potential of polluting the water sources or streams which MAY affect the fish. FYI I flew for the NC Forest Service for 15 years as a helicopter pilot and Air Supervisor. You are most correct in stating that prescribed burning is an effective way of reducing the fuel load in the Forest bed. To often the way the small fires gain such tremendous momentum is simply because a lack of reduction of the ladder fuels and crowning occurs. Crowning releases a tremendous amount of heat energy and rapidly increases the rate of spread.
Here on the East slopes of the Cascades along the Columbia River we have seen several fires that were hit very hard and fast. As at these lower levels most of the burnables are sage brush and grass.
A good example was last weekend when a small fire started at about 4:30 PM. By 5:30 six fire bosses were on the fire using the Columbia River for water. Tankers out of Moses Lake were on the scene shortly after that. The country helicopter was also dropping water on the fire. By 9:00 PM the fire was basically out with full containment the next day.
The water drops or really well on this kind of vegetation since it is low growth.
The Sooper Scoopers(tm) have the ability to mix in retardant with the water they pick up. It isn’t something that they always do, of course.
I was a logger in North Idaho in the late sixties through the seventies. Forest Service timber sales generated funds for forest management and access roads in the forests. Loggers burned their slash and the Forest Service was easily able to brush and thin and do prescribed burns to areas prone to fire due to road access. These roads were torn up during the Clinton Administration, thus eliminating access. Forests have always burned from the beginning of time. It kills off the bugs that kill trees and makes for a healthy forest. logging accomplishes the same thing.
Maybe those environmentalists need to get the word about fires manage the bugs and keep the forest happy.
Fighting fires in California is extremely dangerous for this reason, if an access road even exists anymore, it’s too dangerous to actually use because when the fire actually comes, giant trees fall and cut off the exits. They have to clear the road and any hazards as they go, as the fire is burning. Homeowners also don’t manage their land these day either.
@@Garth2011 Before Jimmy Carter came along the Forest Service policy was focused on sustainable timber harvest and management self funded by timber sales. The "tree hugger" mentality changed things for the worse.
@@aron8949 We loggers fought fires all the time. In fact, at times we were drafted to by the Forest Service to fight fires close to areas we were working. We had equipment and manpower that could quickly respond.
@@johnbaskett2309 yeah we are really retarded these days.
There s another cool video on here "SEVEN Canadair CL-415 water bombers Firefighting in l'Aquila (Italy) - Italian Vigili del Fuoco" incredible flying skills. Cheers for keeping us updated.
Well, the Plumas National Forest is essentially gone now, so no fire worries there for the next 5-10 years, or so. Tough way to prevent future fires.
Sad. But our experience in Napa County is that the burn can burn again. Be safe.
Juan; Another very good presentation and explanation also with excellent graphics. I am kind of a hydro aviation nut. You remember the Be-200 in Greece. That is an excellent airframe and the crash was, as you know, CFIT in VFR. The top 2 planes for both water and retardant are the CL-415 and the Beriev. Now also is the AVIC AG600, but it is not yet operational. The better tech for air tankers has been there for decades. This is not to mention the possible use of the same airframe for cargo and passenger operations. Where do you build another aerodrome for LA? Simple, somewhere around LA, San Pedro or Long Beach harbors. The "runways" are already there and no extra expense of an island airport that sinks all the time. Eliminate the "middleman". Thanks again.
Great point about the AQI and pollution standards! Prescribed burns, conducted during winter/rain months, are the best longterm solution. Prescribed fires do reduce fuel loads and, when coupled with good forest management, provide jobs and timber materials for the market.
Juan ... good call on the AQI subject. It prompted farmers to forego rice stumble burning many years ago.
how about bringing back the timber industry?
The ruling cadre prefer that we buy our lumber from Canada and let nature "manage" our forests with wildfires. They also like the political power and money game of taxing people to operate a huge multi-state fire bureaucracy.
Some of us would prefer a local timber industry, prescribed burns and laws requiring very fire resistant building and maintenance practices in forested areas.
One problem with the timber industry is they prefer the Healthy trees. Which leaves the diseased, damaged, and pest infested/damaged trees behind. What does that do? That alters the genetics very slowly to make the trees even more susceptible to pests, disease, fire, and damage/injury. If the timber industry took the damaged, diseased and pest infested/damaged trees first and left the Healthy trees standing, that would help make the forests less susceptible to diseases, pests, and even fires.
Another thing that the timber industry does is clear cut an area of forest. This is also just as bad, because this does not leave many trees if any trees behind to help with soil erosion. Then when heavy rains come the area that is clear cut is more susceptible to mud slides and heavy soil erosion.
But things are improving in the timber industry, but not fast enough.
@Matthew Groff it reminds me of back when i was commercial fishing. they only ones that gave a hoot about stock replenishment was the mom-and-pop operations while the government backed factory ships raped the fishing grounds and went their merry way.
if the government agency can't wrap their arms around the problem, then the problem needs resolved by others. i'm pretty sure common ground could be found and a reclamation plan hammered out.
@@KJ6EAD seems like PG&E has been a YUGE help lately.....
It's hard to find unbiased information on this topic. But I think it's safe to say harvesting trees can make things better or worse depending on how and where it's done.
Often, the most fire resistant forests are ones with large trees. The large trees don't have many low branches to catch fire (many western trees have fairly fire resistant bark). Also large trees reduce the growth of brush and smaller trees under them reducing the fire hazard further.
In these types of forests, low fires can burn through and remove the undergrowth that is there without harming many of the large trees.
When the big trees are cut the replacement forest may be low and brushy for decades. This can increase the fire hazard.
A big advantage to a robust timber industry is that it provides an incentive and money to manage the forests. Unfortunately it can be hard to sell long term strategies like pre-commercial thinning (PCT) -- the removal of some small trees so the others can grow faster -- where money is spent now but the profits are decades away.
The CH-47s carry about the same depending on vintage and have been doing a great job if water is close by. They also resupply hose line pumper tanks (plastic pools) in remote locations. They and the SEAT's have done a great job here along with the few BAE146's not in Cal. Of course they have a high operating cost but, their still a low cost way to log hard to get to locations rather than fight fire. Its strange that the CL's are the only aircraft designed to fight fire and everything else are, make do hand me downs
Canuck here. Not Bombardier really. Canadair in it's bones. When Bombardier couldn't make it work, they sold it. The type certificates for all Canadair CL are owned by Viking Air. They also own the type certificates for De Havilland aircraft manufactured in Canada by DH. Building new/upgraded Twin Otters today. They've also upgraded the CL-415 with new technology and the ability to assume a multi mission role. The CL-515. I've flown in a Beaver Viking refurbished/rebuilt. Beautiful aircraft. Coulda sworn it was brand new. A 60 year old carcass but you'd never know from looking at it. Looked fresh off the lot. They employ some amazing craftsman.
There are many applications for the CL aircraft. They're capable of things few other bombers are. Far more agile than other aircraft we see in our area with the exception of the AT-802F. Spain and France have large fleets of CLs. I watched them in 2014 working above our farm. Also the Mars in one of it's last years. It was early days for the ATs in BC but they were there too. Amazing how much money they'll throw at a moderate fire when a government communications site is threatened. But the CLs impressed me most as they seemed to be able to match the ATs pretty close in terms of proximity to the ground and effectiveness on the target. Similar turn time to an AT but more water. The only aircraft ever purpose built for fire suppression. All other bombers are modified aircraft.
Alberta loaned BC their CL-215s this summer. They were stationed at the local airport. Got a chance to get a close up look. Watched them fill and drop. Made me wish I was a pilot. And younger...
As a kid on California(1960s), I used to see prescribed burns on a regular basis. Now Mother Nature is doing it for us
The pilots of these planes are amazing, cool, and nerves of steel. Truly a special group of pilots. Thank you Juan and a Big Thank You to the fire fighting pilots.
I was working on this fire for a few days in the Taylorsville area. But then it was time to go to school. Praying for all the firefighters.
Juan you are correct. In the 90’s and into the 2000’s we had an active prescribed burn program in California. In the mid 2000’s the public and environmental groups loudly complained about the prescribed burns making their Springtime skies gray. So much so that prescribed burning was throttled and defunded. For the past 5-10 years we are seeing the results. Add to that the drought of the past 5 years and we get these huge fires. Bring prescribed burning back, and remove the air quality impacts from the calculations of the AQI.
Everything in public service seems to be all "Image" based regardless of how dumb and stupid the results will be.
Blancolirio for US Senate! 👍🏻
I’ve seen the scoopers in action they put down a lot of water very fast.
JB and friends- the main issue with "forest maintenance" is that you really aren't going to go and rake up all the normal debris and litter that covers the forest floor. That's why prescribed burns are good, and those occasionally go awry....go figure. Still, a little by little approach to living near a forest is the best medicine.
יוי
In my understanding a fair majority of the Cl 215/415 have been updated with fire gel dispenser systems. But yes they have limited effectiveness but they are the most efficient water dispensing systems available. In a perfect world you wouldn’t have forest fire but here we are.
They are indeed used across Mediterranean countries for decades with fleet of around 20 CL aircrafts per country
@Waxel Punkt. Turkey has an firefighting fleet with I think 9 CL... But because of bad management, maintenance issues and politics not operable... Address the problem to mr. Erdogan... it is really a shame for such big country... I think momently on whole European Mediterranean coast, only Turkey and Albania are in problem... After Carmel fire even Israel has a AFF yet...
We have PG&E and Sierra Club to thank for many of these fires.
The Governors office is also part of it
@@Garth2011 Yup, he received $75,000 from PG&E when they said they had no money to pay fire victims. The fire victims were paid with PG&E stock which is now worth 50% less.
I had the good fortune of seeing the Mars performance when I worked on fires in the 1980*s
Thank you! 🙏 for all those effected by fires in California. 💚
British Columbia has adopted this kind of thinking ,cleaning up fuel around population areas ,spending millions to log out and mitigate high fuel areas ,pay now to prevent or pay later to fight !
That's the problem, you keep putting out the small fires and you will get a mega fire.
Honestly, from what I have seen, I'm not impressed with the way the Feds fight fires. I see a lot of politics, and very little actual firefighting. I'm talking about past fires in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana. I've seen small fires "allowed" to become giant out of control fires for no reason. I see a lot of terrible decision making, which makes the state and local fire fighters scratch their heads (if they haven't already been kicked off the fire yet by the Feds). I hate to be too negative, but just remember this is our Federal government fighting these fires. We are so fast to label everyone as heroes (by design), but not as bureaucratic yes men. I'm not in California, but when I see your boundaries being overrun time and time again, that's politics. I call it the sit and retreat tactic.
when yellowstone burned it quickly recovered... no structures to worry about
Someone should examine the effectiveness of access roads or lanes through these areas to permit access for equipment and form fire breaks.
steep terrain makes roadbuilding nearly impossible..
As an ex-Fire Marshall, I can say with full confidence, that the level of wildfires being experienced in California was totally preventable. But the tree-huggers that are all fired up emotionally but in ignorance of the reality, were just as much at fault as the state government. PG&E is also complicit in the destruction of these forests and wild lands.
You can't ignore the effects of the drought and climate change on the fuel load.
I would blame the weak state employed and no backboned judges first.
@@kingsley3208 Right. If those environmentalists really cared and had a brain they would have been working to try to avoid climate change that has brought us severely hot years and dried out the forests. Hmmm, wait a sec...
@@Graham_Wideman what are you implying?
@@kingsley3208 Not ignored at all. With better management, the fire spread would have been minimized for the conditions. No way it wasn't going to burn.
Juan, what you’re saying makes sense. You have to ask yourself what people have to gain by preventing change and progress and do those fighting progress understand the implications of their actions? It’s a matter of managing, controlling, and limiting the damage. It’s going to happen, but to some degree it sounds like we can dictate it through taking proactive managing actions. I know they carry out some controlled burns in Oregon where I’m based, because I’ve seen them doing it near Bend.
Living in Oregon all I can say is Amen Brother. 👍👍👍
In 2017 (year of another CA debacle, Oroville spillway fail...when I started following JB) we had 2 forest fires burning in NC. located so whichever wind blew the state was choke smoke. Packed travel trailer, went to Banff NP Alberta. By August we were being chased out there by fires. Now live in UT. Same switch. Can't hide from an angry Mother
Thanks for your thoughts re: forest management.
Many of the Forest residents are also strongly opposed to prescribed burns.
How do they feel about wildfires?! NIMBY (smh)
One of the major obstacles is the ability to do prescribed burns. Whether its CalFire or, National Forest Service, the amount of laws & regs have hampered the ability of the forest managers to do prescribed burns. EPA, CARB, neighborhood HOA, local gov legislator, etc... all can run to a judge or, forest official and get a scheduled burn halted. Meanwhile, the window to safely do this burn passes and that forest manager has to wait months if not years for the right conditions and manpower resources available in an attempt re-start the process.
One great point you just brought up at the end of this video is keeping the fires small.
The Dixie fire, from the Wikimedia post, said it was probably started by the down tree hitting the power lines. The PG&E maintenance person was on his way and so were the fire crews.
By the time everyone got on the fire it was only about 4 to 5 acres and air support was on it.
So how did a 4 acre fire blow up to 800,000 acres ??
That's the real question.
Just like the Beckwourth Complex fire.
I rode up to Portola on the 5th of July.
Beautiful day. Rode past Beckwourth and saw fire fighters, fixed wings and air tankers ready to fight fires. I also saw some smoke coming up over Beckwourth and Genesee pass. It was about less than a 1000 acres on that Monday. Tuesday we got the alert in Doyle that it had blown up to 10,000 acres by the weekend it was 50,000 then it destroyed Doyle California.
Unbelievable that they can't control these fires when they are small
Here in Australia, our fire services are conducting hazard reduction burns now in preparation for summer. It makes perfect sense if you ask me.
They go direct basically on the flames , scooper are made in Canada perfect for there and Alaska vast open land launch a pair of these they get on scene quick and with a body of water near by 2 of these can be deadly on containment, here in California with our drought sites are becoming few between thank you sir Big fan your a great source of information
We here in QLD. Australia are employing the philosophy of prescribed burning as you call it(hazard reduction, here), in order to reduce fuel load in the event I'd a bush fire breaking out. I think that should be the way to go, in these fires. Just my opinion🙂
Great briefing....agreed.
Incredible to watch those CL-415, in one day they were able to support knocking down both East and West side of Davis. It was really windy, those guys rocked it.
FYI, Juan, the CL415 have a 5000 litres retardant mixing tank onboard. They do not always use it I was told.
My son is down there from Spokane,Wa with an RC26B doing photo mapping of the fire.
Logging, grazing, and controlled burns are absolutely necessary to forest health. Yes, the forest used to take care of itself, but now we've put our homes and communities in fire's path so we need a different strategy.
Houses in the forest are safe from fire damage IF homeowners remove the brushy fuels and perform tree thinning around the home.
@@darrellstrait309 that's a big IF... and it won't be enough...
Yes this the US forest circus!! been that for while!
Yep.. I was trucking through this Hwy 44\36 and the 395 roads twice this past week. I'll send you some of the photo's..
Great explanation about forest management, Juan. Well said.
Incidentally, the 415 is quite capable of mixing retardant with the water pick up as they scoop.
@CLdriver1960 - Thank You Sir (since i've assumed you're male and that you were rated) A Question Please? in the footage why would you say the PIC went around? I'm wondering if the aircraft got updraft above the water there and pilot didn't care to push it ?
We need to establish lakes filled with retardant:)
@@mrwest5552 I Have flown the 415, but I’m not rated on it. Looks like he came in a little too fast and high, as seen from the pitch attitude, and floated in the flare. It may be the camera zoom, but that lake looks rather small, especially when you see how low over the trees bomber #1 is.
That’s my WAG (wild a$$ guess)
@@CLdriver1960 - Thank You, that is what i saw, so trying to force it down to the water instead of go around, not wise.
Once again you have hit the nail square on the head!!!!!!!!! Money to fight fire comes through like magic vs money to manage. AND this I didn’t know, air quality counts on prescribed burns but NOT on forest fires……. Law makers have their heads where the sun doesn’t shine. IMH. Once again Juan thanks for sharing all you immense knowledge.
Thanks for talking about the CL415 and its use. Seems they would be good at putting out a new small fire before it gets really big. They beat helicopters at this. Faster and more water dropped per load.
But not as accurate.
@@larsord9139 actually they are accurate, see a video of one unloading on a village place. In Europe, most CL pilots are retired air force officers and they practice all year for decades
th-cam.com/video/am1lCID-qjU/w-d-xo.html
We tried to fund two scooper planes in Napa County and were shut down by CalFire. We were able to fund two Fire Boss planes for rapid NapaCounty response but were denied by Napa County Board if Supervisors.
G,day Brownie from Sydney Australia.
Australian bushland has a (7) year fuel load cycle. This is enough time for the consideration of hazard reduction burning.
* Building development control
is "now" the primary defence.
In other words- 'if you want to live in bushland you pay for it.'
* Our local governments are mapping: for roadways, main water supply: which is much safer than self sufficient buildings.
* Controlling authority must ensure adequate seperation and materials reducing the spread of fire.
🌏🇦🇺
Makes a whole lot more sense to log long tracts of forest land rather than just let all the trees go up in smoke.
Hi Juan, I learn so much from your videos that you are the first person I wanted to support on Patreon. Of course, there is so much about wildfires I wish I didn't need to know. Anyway, thanks for the content.
If it doesn't rain and long term severe droughts are the norm it won't matter what type of forest management practices you use because the eventual outcome will be ever more parts of the region becoming deserts.
Proper forest management would require actual work from the Feds, and they won’t have that. To them it’s better to have photo ops and long winded talks about “fixing” the problems.
get funding and it will happen...
Feds are unable to do any preventive work without funding, and Congress hates to spend money on it.
Juan, I hope you get a chance to check one of these out one day. You'll be amazed. Just the thickness of the wing is crazy.
Out at the Chico airport it's neat to see the scoopers come and go.
I also agree with you about forest management, Juan. Thanks for your great educational videos, too! I would add that we have to look more at the human causations of extreme climate events (like our current drought) happening at a terrifying pace these days.
Can you provide a source for the prescribed burns counting toward AQI but not forest fires? That is sounds insanely counterproductive
Thank you for the rant. So much of our summer here in Utah has been such bad air quality. Heaven knows we've got room to improve with our fire management, but all us Western states are in this together. So often what hurts one hurts all (see also: drought in the Colorado River watershed.)
Juan, you are 100% spot on! Air Quality index should apply to all air not just some air. Preventative forest management must happen starting today. How many homes need to burn before our government both state and federal get together on this and tell the lawyers to chase ambulances and not our fire fighter organizations who risk their lives trying to save our homes. it is totally unacceptable
Your Analysis is right on JB!
Hi I am a back up pilot flying Water Bombers - it is the proven method to keep the fire from spreading and a hell of a plane to fly. Quick your day job and help out.
Some clear cutting in vulnerable places would help to reduce acceleration of leading edge of fires. Replant. As it is now fires will destroy forests annually, may as well sell the wood instead of letting it burn.
Interesting when the fire gets close to rich peoples homes they start getting serious! Clear cutting much
There needs to regular burning during the cool season to keep the fuel level down and protect the animals. Its also good for conifer reproduction.
All I can say is..... I agree with the main problem is a lack of realistic forest planning, and the lack of logging, brush and fuel reduction programs, as well as unrealistic environmental regulations. Thanks Juan...
people living in the woods and bark beetle kills...drought heat etc...
Cl 415 is one of my favorite aircraft. I have inspected parts and assemblies with Leica laser tracker often before they got sold to Longview aviation.
Viking Air now owns the type certs for the CL-215 & CL-415 aircraft. The high demand for them caused by climate change has prompted Viking Air to create a further updated version of the aircraft, the CL-515 which is technically now in production, but it has been delayed due to COVID-19...
Cessna Citation 560X crash after takeoff, Robinson Airport, Farmington CT. Photos indicate that they were trying to return, ran out of altitude.
Thanks for a good update. Have to wonder who's yanking whose chain these days in the Forest Service. Definitely needs to change. Higher-ups due for an overhaul. To my knowledge, the firefighters have been working hard - bless them and thanks. Why did Scooper #2 have to go around? Just because of the wind? Couldn't get enough room to land? He looked like he was pretty close to the same track as the 1st guy. Thanks again.
Great info on our government's selective use of AQI counted againt prescribed burns versus none for the "accidental" giant wildfires created due to lack of forest management. We are our own worst enemy.
What did Pogo say? "We have met the enemy and they are us".
Take a look at the Australian native aboriginal approach to fire management. Over tens of thousands of years they developed a system of controlled burns at the right time of year. Don't ignore the deep knowledge of indigenous people.!
Well stated WRT the lack of use of prescribed burns and the shitty forest management that allows the build up of fuel in the forest. I thought we learned that lesson in Yellowstone 20 some years back?
Blammo! Lol. Where's Pete?