STIHL CHAINSAW MILL 036

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2015
  • I decided to upgrade my Timberjig Chainsaw Mill to the Big Mill Basic Chainsaw Mill. The Big Mill Basic Chainsaw Sawmill uses the basic timberjig kit plus a guide rail and guide rail supports. the chainsaw mill is very easy to use and takes a lot of the guesswork out of knowing where to cut. I found setup much faster than using a board with the timberjig. I used a Stihl 036 chainsaw. The 036 is lightweight with plenty of power but not enough power to mill lumber as quick as I'd like. A Stihl 066 or Husqvarna 395 are the ideas saws for chainsaw milling in my book.
    Link to Chainsaw Milling Pine Video • Logosol Timberjig Revi...
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ความคิดเห็น • 141

  • @craigslitzer4857
    @craigslitzer4857 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I first watched this video 3 or 4 years ago, and I still come back to it every now & then for it's production quality. I like the camera angles, the demonstration of all the different processes you're able to capture on video, and most of all the music choices. I get genuinely excited every time the music ramps up and the cut is being made. I know it might sound silly, but I appreciate this video a lot. It's great.

  • @WetPastaa
    @WetPastaa 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    your intro tells me you are a superhero and you saved the world

  • @holydiver6382
    @holydiver6382 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    By far a MUCH BETTER presentation/demonstration of the Logosol than ANY of the manufacturers videos! Great job!

  • @icespeckledhens
    @icespeckledhens 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The end result is very good with useful timber for woodworkers. I thought the setup was a bit fiddly but I guess all chain saw mills have their pros and cons, its the end result that matters.

  • @GrizzlyOutdoorAdventures
    @GrizzlyOutdoorAdventures 9 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hello John, You've inspired me to buying a Timberjig and now I am also thinking about buying a Big Mill Basic, just like you. I very much enjoyed your film fragment which I find very professional, fantastic! Thank you so much for sharing.

  • @kirkkeller2871
    @kirkkeller2871 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done video. I really like how you pivot the cuts so they are 90 degrees.
    For someone like myself cutting cants from dead standing pine this setup is intriguing. As a former bandsaw mill owner who now has a small project to tackle this might just be the ticket.

  • @craigslitzer4857
    @craigslitzer4857 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow. This video is top notch! It wasn't until the 3rd time watching it that I realized it wasn't a manufacturer's commercial.

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the comment Craig.

  • @douglasmcleod7481
    @douglasmcleod7481 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    great vid lumber looks wonderful

  • @goldengcm
    @goldengcm 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    hey guys ...nice video with nice music fun to watch it was beautiful ....well down..

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for noticing! This one wasn't getting much attention when it first came out.

  • @johntillotson4254
    @johntillotson4254 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for your videos

  • @terencegillespie6675
    @terencegillespie6675 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "You've come a long way, baby." Whoa big manufacturer equipment music, too. I'm following but don't know if an old man like me is going to like upgrading. I haven't used my simpler mill yet.

  • @phubka83
    @phubka83 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    great vid mate enjoyed it cheers

  • @hudsonvaganis7855
    @hudsonvaganis7855 9 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video

  • @estebanaraus.8492
    @estebanaraus.8492 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excelente trabajo.. 👍🏼👍🏼

  • @jonmcintire9067
    @jonmcintire9067 ปีที่แล้ว

    That trackless system is simple yet really effective😀😀😯😉😈😈😈😈💙

  • @ktjwilliams
    @ktjwilliams 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    Getting good with that setup ... I'm doing pretty good now too,,, Some day I'll add the Basic track setup ...

    • @ktjwilliams
      @ktjwilliams 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      When you upgrade, I'll buy that setup from ya if I didn't get yet .. Helps off set the cost of your new M8 or is it M5 ... well something like that ,,, Ha ... I'm retired on a fixed income so I can buy stuff but not alwayzzz when I want it .. Ha ...

  • @sirfonty
    @sirfonty 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Que belleza...

  • @mehmetvarol6076
    @mehmetvarol6076 ปีที่แล้ว

    great job, take it easy 💪💪💪

  • @thecurrentmoment
    @thecurrentmoment 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Aaaand his brand new deck!!

  • @TVHM
    @TVHM 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    thank you for sharing my frands

  • @johnryan2894
    @johnryan2894 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best i I've see just what I want thanks

  • @clearriver6652
    @clearriver6652 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are professional.

  • @johnwhichard9681
    @johnwhichard9681 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello John can you please make a video of all your landscaping equipment I would greatly appreciate it and great video keep up the great work. God Bless😊

  • @mjallenuk
    @mjallenuk 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice to have a little flashback to this video suggestion.... cheers you tube

  • @DTSVK
    @DTSVK 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    3:45 Nice timing.

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Heck yeah!

  • @RickRabjohn
    @RickRabjohn 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a great video and thanks for sharing You've got me hooked on Logosol and cutting my own lumber. Interested to see your set-up for drying out your lumber and the things you will make. Have fun!

    • @RickRabjohn
      @RickRabjohn 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well I finally have my sawmill set-up - new video posted today - sawmill is great - moving the logs to the mill was tough stuff!

  • @batbawls
    @batbawls 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very nice!

  • @howardmto6679
    @howardmto6679 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like adjustment of the chainsaw stand

  • @brianwalmsley447
    @brianwalmsley447 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting film 😎

  • @dejanjenic2394
    @dejanjenic2394 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello, how much it takes to be a strong chain saw to it could be cut timber, and how many times a day can work but that does not spoil?

  • @Junior-fw5io
    @Junior-fw5io 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Muito bom gostei

  • @finn127
    @finn127 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    +Land Designs Unlimited LLC
    Congratulations on a great set up! And very nice editing! Greetings from Norway!

    • @finn127
      @finn127 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      *****
      You're welcome!
      Yes, that is quite a few miles away. But even shorter to Sweden, where your big mill is made ;) And the pine boards you used on the first set up.

    • @sayednasef
      @sayednasef 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@finn127 ددقلامحمص

  • @404BOOMER
    @404BOOMER 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Beautiful job. My first thought was it looks time consuming. The actual video was done well.

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks Steve.

  • @hotrodrebel855
    @hotrodrebel855 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sweet!

  • @privateuploads-geo2625
    @privateuploads-geo2625 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    After seeing many videos on the Grandberg Alaskan Saw Mill rig, the Timberjig looks much more cumbersome and time consuming to use, with constant re-setting for each cut. The GASM uses a guide for the first cut only, and then the guide frame simply floats on top of the first cut. I have used it to a large pine, about 28" in diameter and it worked well.

    • @richtomlinson7090
      @richtomlinson7090 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree, I've used the 36" model with a Stihl 066 magnum with the red eye and achieved cuts 28" wide, in Cottonwood and Black Maple and narrower cuts in many other species.
      I put foam handle bar cushioning on the top bar and I replaced the wing nuts in the middle with large diameter aluminum knows so I can push on those when beginning a cut or on the back when ending the cut.

    • @gottabighit1
      @gottabighit1 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@richtomlinson7090
      So tell me about cottonwood. I live near springs and cottonwoods grow to enormous size. There are very few TH-cam videos where sawyers cut cottonwood. What is the lumber from that species like? I have free access to as much cottonwood as I can haul.

    • @richtomlinson7090
      @richtomlinson7090 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gottabighit1 Cottonwood is in the family of true Poplars and it can be relatively bland and not so strong, but it's main advantages are the availability of large clear sizes of relatively strong per light weight wood.
      It smells not so great when cutting and it moves a bit when shrinking and drying but I've cut a 60 year old young trees that had to go on a friend's lawn and it was nice to mill such large logs.
      It can be used much like Aspen and makes cheap but nice paddles and oars, it's used for trailer floors and sidewalls, and miscellaneous stuff.
      Get those logs and try it, but the more quarter sawn the better, and keep the drying stack straight and weighted down.

    • @gottabighit1
      @gottabighit1 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@richtomlinson7090
      Great reply. Just the info I was hoping for. Thanks for following up!

    • @jgm9927
      @jgm9927 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gottabighit1 cottonwood is like tying to keep track of a 2 yr. old after it's milled. Wanders all over the place. It's stringy & brittle after it dries.

  • @bugnfront
    @bugnfront 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    everytime the saw turns on that music plays....guess I need a "tuned exhaust" also!

  • @beebob1279
    @beebob1279 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice demonstration. But..... How long did it actually take for you to mill the log? It's nice to see smaller logs milled at home because most mills don't like anything under 8'. But it must have taken you weeks just to do a small pile of small logs. The parts to that system look cheap and plasticy?

  • @radielescobar510
    @radielescobar510 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    i like this vídeo amigo

  • @BackwoodsPatriot
    @BackwoodsPatriot 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You lucky dog!!! I don't know whether to say congrats or punch you I'm so jealous! lol I have the saw, you have the setup...uh life. haha

    • @BackwoodsPatriot
      @BackwoodsPatriot 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ***** I tried to look it up on baileys.com but I could only see the full kit for $999. If the timberjig was only $139 that means they want like $860 for some rails? Wouldn't the actual timberjig mill part be more valuable than some metal rails? That's like buying a car then paying 3x more for some tires! lol

    • @bernardoncins6968
      @bernardoncins6968 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Je voudrais savoir où l'on peut se le procurer car je suis très intéressée par c'est outils pour ma tronçonneuse je vous en remercie.on en trouve en France merci pour les réponses a tous

  • @RedfishInc
    @RedfishInc 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    It does seem like it takes a long time to mill one log but the set looks simple enough.

  • @marcdefabrik5750
    @marcdefabrik5750 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Joli coup.

  • @3wrapframe
    @3wrapframe 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ripping chain or standard cutting chain?

  • @thistlefarmer9114
    @thistlefarmer9114 9 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    John your editing skills are going from strength to strength. You have really cracked it with this video. The relation between the music and the work being done was excellent. What editing software do you use? I really enjoy using my Stihl 034 due to its power to weight ratio. It has cut many tons of wood but the old girl just keeps going. The twisty grain Eucalypts we have don’t lend themselves to milling but it might be fun to try one day. What about seasoning the timber, how do you go about that?

  • @damanhuri4266
    @damanhuri4266 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best meizint jam heavy

  • @johnanderson6187
    @johnanderson6187 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Were do i get that jig from for cutting

  • @matthewcacace6804
    @matthewcacace6804 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video, thanks John. do you ever sell the lumber you mill? I make cabinets and furniture and i love to use local and reclaimed hardwood.

    • @matthewcacace6804
      @matthewcacace6804 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      +Land Designs Unlimited LLC very cool, thanks so much for the great videos!

  • @OPRancher
    @OPRancher 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    What are those T shaped pieces called that you use to stablize the log, and where can I buy them?

  • @MegaCair
    @MegaCair 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    amigo qual valor dessa ferramenta de alinhamento de corte ?

  • @garengtutorial8923
    @garengtutorial8923 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bagus 👍

  • @dewaltxr7628
    @dewaltxr7628 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whats the brand of that timber cutting jig

  • @stedobrian4204
    @stedobrian4204 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    where can i get a saw and the attachments

  • @MegaCair
    @MegaCair 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    amigo como faço para fazer ferramenta de girar os troncos na posição que quero tipo uma mao de forca ?

  • @glenntan9156
    @glenntan9156 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where to buy this timberjig thanks great job

  • @luisernestolopez7232
    @luisernestolopez7232 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Puede decirme dónde compro esos soportes y el riel?

  • @JonathanAdami
    @JonathanAdami 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Intuitively I'd say that I wouldn't go for that mill, the support is on one side of the blade only, so you can easily move the tip of the blade up and down a little. And if you look at the finished boards, it sort of looks like they are warped or at least not square all the way through... I also happen to have just watched a video about sharpening chainsaw and it looks like this file is way too big for that chain, but again, I know nothing so don't pay attention ;)

    • @douglasmcleod7481
      @douglasmcleod7481 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      thats what i thought at first but then noticed the jig is holding the saw at the correct angle . the brackets guide along the top and the side

  • @asv1955
    @asv1955 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7/2/2017
    My friend
    good evening
    What is the minimum thickness that you can cut the boards.
    Thank you

    • @richtomlinson7090
      @richtomlinson7090 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      From my experience, you can cut very thin pieces for a chainsaw but it becomes a waste because of the 3/8" kerf when using a chainsaw instead of a bandsaw.
      You end up making chips instead of boards.
      Chainsaw mills are pretty great at making thicker slabs and beams, but inefficient at making shingles and thin boards.

  • @robertplant9694
    @robertplant9694 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How can you make the 036 mill better?

  • @timothybulter4923
    @timothybulter4923 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Chainsaw Mill you have where can you buy one and what is the price on

  • @chestermicek
    @chestermicek 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I bought several Granberg Mills, and one thing I can say about them is that they take forever to deliver. I own, but don't have in my posession, one model G776, one G555-B, and one G777 conversion kit. If Granberg ever delivers them, I'll let you know how they work out. One thing I must say is that your set up doesn't look that hard & I like the 45 degree angle because it uses instead of fights gravity.
    When I bought the G555-B, I had no idea how much dust would shoot up in a user's face. The only way I learned that was by watching these videos. It looks to me like that isn't much of a concern with your 036.

    • @chestermicek
      @chestermicek 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Got you & thanks. Given your level of experience, which respirator do you prefer. I own two full face masks with cartridge to filter dust, but they cost only $100 each and I'm not sure the clear plastic face piece would hold up to a spray right in my face. I bought them for sanding floors and they worked great for that. Got a specific brand in mind?

    • @patrickdunning8662
      @patrickdunning8662 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Chester Micek by

  • @achemluke9769
    @achemluke9769 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where can I find those tools?

  • @danwatson3944
    @danwatson3944 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cracking video 👍🏻 where did you get the chocks? Can’t find them anywhere..

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      If you mean the orange things, aka log dogs, I found plans online. Here's a video on how and he sells the dimensions for around $5.

    • @danwatson3944
      @danwatson3944 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      CTSCAPER thanks, found the video, great idea..

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Glad you found it. I thought I included it in my reply. If you found the one by Mitchell Dillman that's the one.

  • @triangledetecting5757
    @triangledetecting5757 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool mill just don't know why online there 1.1k. For few hundred more can get an m8 or f2. I have been researching Mills for a few days. My father Loses a few large red oak's a year and a be nice to do something other than firewood with them

  • @Amritagurung12
    @Amritagurung12 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    but how much that saw

  • @christophercunningham5434
    @christophercunningham5434 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please forgive my ignorance, but can someone tell me what “pith” is and why he’s writing that on the log he’s about to mill?

  • @devsawen7235
    @devsawen7235 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I really love it ❤️💕 can I get this chainsaw mil

  • @demetriopacheco4384
    @demetriopacheco4384 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Deseo adquirir el equipo ,saber el precio.

  • @jewelahmed3398
    @jewelahmed3398 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    How to purchase it

  • @suzuki981
    @suzuki981 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    With that thing it takes a hundred years to finish one log

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm upgrading my saw to a Stihl 066. Hopefully it will increase productivity. :-)

    • @suzuki981
      @suzuki981 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thats nice. It's fun to make youre own boards :)

    • @drjaimelannister
      @drjaimelannister 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Håkan Gustavsson uu2

    • @rickjones2534
      @rickjones2534 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CTSCAPER
      Is there a web sight I can look at thinking about getting one to start off with

  • @dougbagnoli4778
    @dougbagnoli4778 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Glad I saw it, now I know I don't want to buy it...I'm going with an Alaskan mill...

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      They each have their place.

    • @holydiver6382
      @holydiver6382 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well, I’ve got an Alaskan and I’m going with this Logosol setup. I love my Alaskan but for smaller diameter trees such as this demo, this Logoso is much better suited for “ME”. You won’t be disappointed by getting an Alaskan but you will soon see the difference should you be milling smaller diameter logs.

  • @elnuevoamanecerdelostrabaj8783
    @elnuevoamanecerdelostrabaj8783 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Donde la puedo comprar en chile

  • @rimpimili1710
    @rimpimili1710 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    i want this machine how can i get it and price pls

  • @silviocabral1232
    @silviocabral1232 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Como comprar esta ferramenta

  • @SP-mp9yi
    @SP-mp9yi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Did anyone else notice that dude in the beginning having a sandwich.

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That was my sandwich phase. :-)

  • @uriypetroff9496
    @uriypetroff9496 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    единственная нормальная идея - поворот на 90 градусов..Остальное - в топку.

  • @endriksarapang6998
    @endriksarapang6998 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Suda dijual bebaska alat bantu gesek itu ya?

  • @ruatkimapachuau9870
    @ruatkimapachuau9870 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    How can I have your accesories..I have the Saw. Pliz help me to have your accesories

  • @hartwigzehentner2730
    @hartwigzehentner2730 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    if only dust comes out of your saw, i would reconsider the edge of the chain

  • @7.62fullmetal9
    @7.62fullmetal9 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    looks slow and cumbersome to set up and change, dont think I could get used to that set up.

  • @feliperanson6366
    @feliperanson6366 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    0:10
    0:10
    0:10

  • @joskillman1270
    @joskillman1270 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    01:38
    08:22
    06:20

  • @Jamestfarrell
    @Jamestfarrell 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I hate it when the music obliterates the cursing.

    • @CTSCAPER
      @CTSCAPER  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I don't think there was any in that one. There are others...

  • @mrfrontbottom6877
    @mrfrontbottom6877 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    No thanks, I will stick with my Alaskan mill.

    • @beebob1279
      @beebob1279 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm looking for something now. This system seems to be more work setting up. It's got to be taking a long time. I'm on to the next mill. I'll check the Alaskan next.

    • @dkrizan
      @dkrizan 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I like the way the wood drops but I agree, way too much time/effort for what you harvest. Great for a mobility solution. My mind could change depending on what was in that sandwich though....

  • @beebob1279
    @beebob1279 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It'll take forever to do one log.

  • @manuelacevedo6722
    @manuelacevedo6722 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    meyega aserar

  • @GBDGhotbear
    @GBDGhotbear 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Too much back breaking work there boys. I'll stick with my Norwood mill.

  • @user-qc2em3wf8z
    @user-qc2em3wf8z 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Хочу

  • @woke6958
    @woke6958 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Name of the parts at 0:43 please

  • @user-tq6tm5ko5z
    @user-tq6tm5ko5z 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Если показываете зарубежные видио тогда пишите перевод.

  • @maicolx7776
    @maicolx7776 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Seems really complicated and time consuming

  • @Jerseyhighlander
    @Jerseyhighlander 8 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Looks like ridiculous amount of set up and fiddling. The closeups of the parts, they look like they should say Fisher Price on them and the way they flex when you lean on them, maybe they do.?

    • @TryThinkingAboutIt
      @TryThinkingAboutIt 8 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      A bit harsh, perhaps?

    • @beebob1279
      @beebob1279 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have to agree with you on this. My comment is how long did it actually take to mill that log? four hours maybe longer?

  • @theeasternfront6436
    @theeasternfront6436 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Jesus christ do you have a board yet?!

  • @kennethstensrud669
    @kennethstensrud669 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Too much fiddling about to get some boards milled. I would not purchase this type, there are other, better, types on the market. Price?, well one does get what one pay for, but shopping around is never a bad idea.

  • @bobgunner3086
    @bobgunner3086 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good grief.

  • @user-rg6cb4tz9u
    @user-rg6cb4tz9u 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Л8

  • @damanhuri4266
    @damanhuri4266 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bisa kirim logoto timberjig

  • @alexandremoura3711
    @alexandremoura3711 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Too loud song,we are not deff.

  • @richpagan2825
    @richpagan2825 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Way to much crap to mill logs. Not user friendly way to much set up time what it took 2 hrs of set up time to do 1 cut.

  • @ejarvis3670
    @ejarvis3670 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    So slow

  • @rustyrose4684
    @rustyrose4684 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    go big or go home, dont get anything less then a 661 or 880, i got an 880, and it ripps out 45 cm boards at 60 seconds for 4 meters of length,
    and just make your own alaskan mill instead of buying all this shit companies sell.. i already spent my thousands of dollars on it, and i ended upp making my own anyway with an 880 ;)