I'm about to order the brunner. I read a review some 3 years ago. 1. It mentioned overheating. 2. It mentioned that some DCS moduals have very little if any FFB effekts. And not only the fly by wire stuff. But the F86, and even the p51 has only basic effects (like stall etc. But now shaking)
@@Gunfreak19 Brunner officially don't support extensions. I currently use a 10cm extension and tried 20cm in the past. Your milage may vary. The limit is the 4.5NM limited or 1.5 when overheated on the stick. The stick can generate a good amount of force without an extension. It drops quite dramatically once you add one. I found 10cm to work quite well for a heavy grip like the Warthog, but I use a fairly low centering force. Others use 20cm with a light VirPil plastic stick. The combination of 20cm with the Warthog does not work well. The stick cannot hold all positions when using force trim and will "overheat" quickly.
@@twoknife I already have virpil grip and extender. So I guess I'll try with or without. I'm so used to using a 20cm extender. (Both winwing, virpil and authentikit spitfire stick)
@@Gunfreak19 One thing to consider is that the Brunner base is pretty tall from the center of rotation thanks to the motors. So it is basically like a built-in 5cm extension. So 10cm feels about right to me.
I have been flying the Apache with the stick. Trim is super straightforward with a FFB stick. I might actually end up making a video since a lot of people keep asking.
Great video. Can you confirm that the cold start behavior is also accurate in regards to stick behavior? Have you tried the new native Brunner direct X? I have this weird problem that the stick jumps forward in the cat when i enter the mission. No matter if cold yet, hot jet in air, etc.
It unfortunately isn’t all that big of a deal. I mainly fly the F-16 which supports no force feedback at all. So most of the time it behaves exactly like my old VirPil base. It is really only Heatblur aircraft, WarBirds and force trim for helicopters. But then there is an F-4 Phantom and F-15 inbound…
@@twoknife so if you were between an ffb or a fssb you don’t think the ffb is worth it? I fly all kinds of planes but I used a friends fssb and loved it. I’ve never used an ffb before.
@@scriptedPR The Brunner is an awesome experience with the F-14, WW2 planes, IL-2 or even Microsoft Flight Simulator. It can really put a giant smile on your face. However, when it comes to DCS those aren't really the planes I fly. In a Hornet or Viper, I would much rather have the force-sensing stick. We will need to wait and see what the new modules like F-15, Eurofighter, and F-4 Phantom do. Since two of those are Heatblur, I am fairly optimistic. If you have two grand burning a hole in your pocket, the best way to improve your DCS experience is probably a Varjo Aero.
@@twoknife I may go ahead and get the fssb now and wait and see what happens and maybe get a center ffb in the future. I really only fly fbw aircraft atm. Mainly the hornet and the viper. I do mess around in the f14 zone and the a10 but after using my friends fssb I was hooked.
You might want to look up the VPForce Rhino FFB. Its a guy who made his own FFB stick then decided to start a business making them for others. IIRC it's ~800 Euros (~$900) for the base preassembled and ~600 Euros for the base as a kit. Much cheaper than the Brunner setup and I believe it also has higher force and doesn't overheat. Additionally it doesn't use propietary FFB drivers, it just runs straight off of directX (or something along those lines, I don't understand the technical terms). Only problem is that because its a one man band and there's hundreds of people in the waiting list right now its something along the lines of an 8 month wait.
I have only triggered the overheat protection about five times in two years owning the stick. So it really doesn’t bother me. I don’t fly the F-14, but it has the best FFB implementation of all planes in DCS. Or to put it differently: It is the only modern jet with decent FFB support. I am hoping F-15E and F-4 Phantom will change that
Hello and thank you for this video! Are you going to make a video to show how to install the programs to make it work? Descriptions of the different settings for this FFB? Positive or negative feedback?
You can pretty much set 5 things: In BrunnerDX (globally for the joystick): Force Delay in DCS per plane: Force X Force Y Vibration strength In some cases you can enable/disable force trim on the plane I haven't fully decided if I am going to make a setup video for it. There is lots of help available in the r/hotas discord server for the 5 people that are going to buy a Brunner base.
It will primarily give you forces on the control surfaces. Vibration from engines and the gun is something you mostly feel through the seat and a bass shaker like a buttkicker is much more suitable to replicate that.
Yes. It works exactly the same as the Apache. I created a video on the Apache that hopefully explains all you need: th-cam.com/video/tmlJmjShzP4/w-d-xo.html
The flight sim community has seen massive growth since FS2020. So there is some hope that there someone might release a force feedback stick. For now, it is just this and Microsoft Sidewinder mods. If it makes you feel any better, the force feedback is completely worthless in the Hornet and Viper. So you are not really missing anything.
You need to set a few things in CLS2Sim, an Arduino and start BrunnerDX which flashes the Ardunio automatically. Once that is done you can bind it like any old FFB stick in DCS. It can be done 5 minutes. First time took me like an hour to get everything to work. So yeah not terribly difficult, but not super intuitive the first time around.
@@twoknife thanks a lot for your answer ! Do you get all the dcs force effect that way ? Like stick getting stiffer with speed, shaking when buffetting etc ? I might contact you later on if I purchase this.. too tempting ;)
@@dunbar555 So it depends on the module. It can reproduce pretty much all the effects a Sidewinder FFB2 can. For some modules like Viper or Hornet you just get a center force (at which point you might as well just use a normal stick) and force trim on all helicopters (I have a video on that). The Tomcat has very detailed effects like getting stiffer with higher speed, stick going pretty limp when you are in a stall, shaking, etc. You can even feel the runway lights when you take off in the middle of a runway. But keep in mind it is almost the only module that is like that. Most others are pretty lackluster. Heatblur seem to be the only people who care about FFB at this point. There is a Brunner section in the r/hotas Discord if you want to talk to other owners - including the BrunnerDX dev.
Why would you even say that? I have owned a TrackIR for over 10 years and purchased the Index and Varjo Aero on release. I don't use the TrackIR anymore though. I chose not to use VR for this video, because the setup was already crowded with flight gear, camera and lights. Didn't feel like knocking anything over in VR. Rest assured, I fly exclusively in VR otherwise.
I'm about to order the brunner. I read a review some 3 years ago.
1. It mentioned overheating.
2. It mentioned that some DCS moduals have very little if any FFB effekts. And not only the fly by wire stuff. But the F86, and even the p51 has only basic effects (like stall etc. But now shaking)
Yes, all of that is true.
@@twoknife thanks, it looks like you are using it with and extender? Does that cause any problems?
@@Gunfreak19 Brunner officially don't support extensions. I currently use a 10cm extension and tried 20cm in the past. Your milage may vary.
The limit is the 4.5NM limited or 1.5 when overheated on the stick. The stick can generate a good amount of force without an extension. It drops quite dramatically once you add one.
I found 10cm to work quite well for a heavy grip like the Warthog, but I use a fairly low centering force. Others use 20cm with a light VirPil plastic stick. The combination of 20cm with the Warthog does not work well. The stick cannot hold all positions when using force trim and will "overheat" quickly.
@@twoknife I already have virpil grip and extender. So I guess I'll try with or without. I'm so used to using a 20cm extender. (Both winwing, virpil and authentikit spitfire stick)
@@Gunfreak19 One thing to consider is that the Brunner base is pretty tall from the center of rotation thanks to the motors. So it is basically like a built-in 5cm extension. So 10cm feels about right to me.
Cool! I may have to get the Tomcat to use with my G940 joystick.
Have this stick and works damn well with the Tomcat.
@@IM0001 How about the F-15E?
@@larryssuperhomearcades That I wouldn't know as I don't have the F-15E yet.
You done any flights with the AH-64D and the trim issues they are having? I would be dead keen to see a video on that.
I have been flying the Apache with the stick. Trim is super straightforward with a FFB stick. I might actually end up making a video since a lot of people keep asking.
@@twoknife I would actually really appreciate that
@@M1a2sepwr I am done recording and editing that video. So it should be live in less than a day. th-cam.com/video/tmlJmjShzP4/w-d-xo.html
Great video. Can you confirm that the cold start behavior is also accurate in regards to stick behavior? Have you tried the new native Brunner direct X? I have this weird problem that the stick jumps forward in the cat when i enter the mission. No matter if cold yet, hot jet in air, etc.
2000 dollars well spent! I feel so deprived not having FFB, havent had it since the early 2000s when microsoft made one. I miss it so much.
It unfortunately isn’t all that big of a deal. I mainly fly the F-16 which supports no force feedback at all. So most of the time it behaves exactly like my old VirPil base. It is really only Heatblur aircraft, WarBirds and force trim for helicopters. But then there is an F-4 Phantom and F-15 inbound…
@@twoknife so if you were between an ffb or a fssb you don’t think the ffb is worth it? I fly all kinds of planes but I used a friends fssb and loved it. I’ve never used an ffb before.
@@scriptedPR The Brunner is an awesome experience with the F-14, WW2 planes, IL-2 or even Microsoft Flight Simulator. It can really put a giant smile on your face. However, when it comes to DCS those aren't really the planes I fly. In a Hornet or Viper, I would much rather have the force-sensing stick. We will need to wait and see what the new modules like F-15, Eurofighter, and F-4 Phantom do. Since two of those are Heatblur, I am fairly optimistic.
If you have two grand burning a hole in your pocket, the best way to improve your DCS experience is probably a Varjo Aero.
@@twoknife I may go ahead and get the fssb now and wait and see what happens and maybe get a center ffb in the future. I really only fly fbw aircraft atm. Mainly the hornet and the viper. I do mess around in the f14 zone and the a10 but after using my friends fssb I was hooked.
You might want to look up the VPForce Rhino FFB. Its a guy who made his own FFB stick then decided to start a business making them for others. IIRC it's ~800 Euros (~$900) for the base preassembled and ~600 Euros for the base as a kit. Much cheaper than the Brunner setup and I believe it also has higher force and doesn't overheat. Additionally it doesn't use propietary FFB drivers, it just runs straight off of directX (or something along those lines, I don't understand the technical terms).
Only problem is that because its a one man band and there's hundreds of people in the waiting list right now its something along the lines of an 8 month wait.
Wow that is cool... time to start saving my lunch money
How do you see overheat issues against the price? Worth it? F-14 is my main stunt and I hear HB have done a stellar job even there.
I have only triggered the overheat protection about five times in two years owning the stick. So it really doesn’t bother me. I don’t fly the F-14, but it has the best FFB implementation of all planes in DCS. Or to put it differently: It is the only modern jet with decent FFB support. I am hoping F-15E and F-4 Phantom will change that
@@twoknife F-4 being HB as well sure allows to get hopes up. they go no less than the whole nine yards. razbam then...
why does the stick wobble when you are not moving?
Wind and vibration from the engine. You need a fair bit of airspeed for the centering force to increase enough that it stays centered.
The wind was strong enough on the runway while you were sitting still to move the stick?
Hello and thank you for this video! Are you going to make a video to show how to install the programs to make it work?
Descriptions of the different settings for this FFB?
Positive or negative feedback?
You can pretty much set 5 things:
In BrunnerDX (globally for the joystick):
Force
Delay
in DCS per plane:
Force X
Force Y
Vibration strength
In some cases you can enable/disable force trim on the plane
I haven't fully decided if I am going to make a setup video for it. There is lots of help available in the r/hotas discord server for the 5 people that are going to buy a Brunner base.
@@twoknife Pls pls, one video is more than 1000 words. How can I make it work?
How does it compare to the MSFF2 joystick?
Hi, I was wondering if you got vibration from the stick when firing guns?
It will primarily give you forces on the control surfaces. Vibration from engines and the gun is something you mostly feel through the seat and a bass shaker like a buttkicker is much more suitable to replicate that.
Why are the frames so choppy?
Hi, did you try that with DCS Mi24 module?
Yes. It works exactly the same as the Apache. I created a video on the Apache that hopefully explains all you need: th-cam.com/video/tmlJmjShzP4/w-d-xo.html
Is that with the Brunner dx and arduino set up ?
Did you find the roll of 14b in DX ffb mode is weird?
Wow. That is so damn cool. God wish I was rich..
The flight sim community has seen massive growth since FS2020. So there is some hope that there someone might release a force feedback stick. For now, it is just this and Microsoft Sidewinder mods.
If it makes you feel any better, the force feedback is completely worthless in the Hornet and Viper. So you are not really missing anything.
Is it easy to set up for dcs ?
You need to set a few things in CLS2Sim, an Arduino and start BrunnerDX which flashes the Ardunio automatically. Once that is done you can bind it like any old FFB stick in DCS. It can be done 5 minutes. First time took me like an hour to get everything to work. So yeah not terribly difficult, but not super intuitive the first time around.
@@twoknife thanks a lot for your answer ! Do you get all the dcs force effect that way ? Like stick getting stiffer with speed, shaking when buffetting etc ? I might contact you later on if I purchase this.. too tempting ;)
@@dunbar555 So it depends on the module. It can reproduce pretty much all the effects a Sidewinder FFB2 can. For some modules like Viper or Hornet you just get a center force (at which point you might as well just use a normal stick) and force trim on all helicopters (I have a video on that). The Tomcat has very detailed effects like getting stiffer with higher speed, stick going pretty limp when you are in a stall, shaking, etc. You can even feel the runway lights when you take off in the middle of a runway. But keep in mind it is almost the only module that is like that. Most others are pretty lackluster. Heatblur seem to be the only people who care about FFB at this point. There is a Brunner section in the r/hotas Discord if you want to talk to other owners - including the BrunnerDX dev.
@@twoknife thank you for all this information ! Salute from Switzerland
@@twoknife would you have a link on which arduino I should buy ?
Truly a DCS moment, spends all their money on an expensive stick while neglecting TarckIR or VR, bruh
Why would you even say that? I have owned a TrackIR for over 10 years and purchased the Index and Varjo Aero on release. I don't use the TrackIR anymore though. I chose not to use VR for this video, because the setup was already crowded with flight gear, camera and lights. Didn't feel like knocking anything over in VR. Rest assured, I fly exclusively in VR otherwise.