Are Trans Athletes Why Parkrun DELETED Every Record?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Parkrun have made some big changes - but do they REALLY matter?
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Some strong opinions around this one - let's keep the comments section the correct side of bat shit bonkers 😂
Haha… ok King Canute… good luck with that! 🌊
Just watched it and I was glad to see you were brilliant on the topic! So many in the online ‘fitness’ thing are those red pill nonsense… and your line about them having time to work on women’s right in the future was perfect.
Thanks man.
@@aarpoonwaify6694 what does Red Pill have to do with understanding people have conditions that they want to be seen as normal? If a man dresses up like a women for a joke its one thing but when they truly believe they are the opposite sex because of dressing up, its another. Would you tell a obese man or women they are healthy and not to worry about what others say? If so you are part of the problem and do not realize itm
We'll behave ;)
I’m just here for the laugh. Thanks once again!
New parkrun rule ... new records only count if you stand on a podium in front of a duck pond
🦆
Yeah, let the ducks decide. That way, "No ducks given" is a valid title.
😂🤣😂
But that would be just ducking the issue.@@Fleshcut
That's quackers.
As a barely-sub-17 parkrunner, seeing my name just scraping into the fastest 100 times was massively rewarding, and is my main goal every time I try a new course. I think a lot of people who are about that speed (quick, but not quick enough to do well in any properly serious race) enjoy the feeing of achieving something which is vaguely worthwhile like that, even if it is a bit pointless overall
Joe, are they eliminating just the course records or also the weekly race results?
Like we can still track our own times, yeah?
Exactly why do we have to change everything just because seeing their 40 minute time might make the shit runners feel bad
@@joelmacinnes2391 why do we need to keep them just to make fast runners feel good?
@buhuhuh7757 for a start, they don't make the slow runners feel bad, secondly, besides course records, the age graded stuff is a great way for older people to gauge their fitness - everyone can benefit from that and nobody is going to be impaired by it - and lastly the point of parkruns is that people show up, and there are plenty of people who show up to try and win - as petty as you may think that sounds - so scrapping course records and fast finishers data will at best do nothing, but more probably deter faster runners from showing up
This is exactly how my son is. He shines at parkrun, but in club races he's average. He loved that he was at the top of some age group leaderboards
Dam my 12min 35 sec course record has been deleted 😂 you’ll just have to take my word for it now. 😅
Congratulations on your record time 🎆🎆 😏
With that profile pic I dont know why you haven't gone sub 10 minutes yet!!!
🤣
Yes I held all course records in the country except your one
@@Timtherunner I held many male and female records, it all depended how I was feeling before race morning - stick the wig on or not to stick the wig on.
Mark, the only thing causing more anger than this park run stuff is the fact we haven’t had a duck pond podium flash back in forever.
That clips on holiday 😂
Hello from New Zealand. I stumbled across your channel at Christmas 2022. Feeling fat and unhealthy here was this guy talking about Parkrun. I discovered we had two in our city so early January we ventured out not knowing what to expect and it was a fantastic experience. From not being able to run 200m I now run 20km a week and did my 50th Parkrun this weekend. Thank you for the inspiration and keep up the great content!
keep up the good work bro💪💪
As an old person that took up running recently( through parkrun ) and later, switched to a healthy lifestyle ( including quitting smoking after half a century,which ain`t easy) I will miss the age graded records. It gave me realistic targets that meant something. And watching my upwards progress through the top 1000 in my age group at my local parkrun was a great source of inspiration.The details..and fastest runners..were not important. The statistics were.
Same here. I started recently and found the age grade records really useful. My kids have also just started in the junior event and are performing well. Looking back at the last 10 years of data it informs you of how well they are doing instead of the current 'competition'.
I also just enjoy browsing through stats!
Nothing to stop you keeping your own records.
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx I do. The point is that other records in the age grade are not collated for comparison any longer.
@@herraghty Fair enough. But as the run is supposedly for fun, such records invite competition. But anyone can look at records from competitive runs that keep them and use those. Inclusion in park running has priority over records.
You mean keep a list...and update it regularly...of the top 1000 runners of all time, in my age group at my local parkrun?....you really aren`t helping. I don`t think you understand the issue, not at all.
As a runner in an older age bracket who travels to run different parkruns I am very disappointed to not have the age leagues for each run any longer. They helped make me competitive and added interest and motivation.
At first I thought it was a bad decision, but I guess annoying EVERYONE and not just a single group is equality in action 😅
The problem is activists are talking equity, not equality. People assume they're the same thing because they sound similar. Equality is everyone gets to do park run. Equity is I'm offended by park run so you have to change it.
It’s nuts to bend the knee to these weirdos
@@frontierlandfrank5314 "Bending the knee" would have been letting the trans-women's times stand surely?
@@KevinJDildonikequity is equality of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity. I’m not sure how this reading applies to this situation.…? I guess they have achieved that…? But I don’t think the majority of people campaigning against parkrun were much bothered by the concept of equality
Very similar to communism/socialism it makes everyone equally poor.
"nixon- he/him" caught me off guard 🤣
Jen , just slow was the best bit
I did my first parkrun today because of discovering your channel. Thank you. I’ll be back next Saturday
One thing that you (and all media) have missed here is the removal of age grade records. A 50/60/70 year old is unlikely to win one of their local 'proper' races but could target local age grade records. This was a huge motivation for many runners and it was extremely important to them
As a parkrun RD one of the most angering things is the complete lack of respect and communication from HQ to the local teams. We dont buy the line about records being off putting as parkrun can provide no evidence. This has been handled just as badly as the dog lead mess a few years back
The competition element of it was part of the fun. Changing the approach to publishing results because a few people get upset because they’re slow is mental. It should be inspiring to see how amazing people are doing, and drive you to improve. Not just being salty cause someone is better at a particular skill.
It still is competitive in my view because I’m only bothered about my time not what other people do, so simply missing a bit of data of the results does not bother me and they still publish the results anyway. However the real reason for the change is the transgender isssue.
Was waiting to see your opinion on this, just found out about it today. The leaderboard for me and whole system of recording everyone's times has greatly boosted my motivation to get faster every time I go and see my friend's progress too, having age category and gender difference marked down is also a bonus as I get to look at something that says first in age category 😆
I look forward to watching the video
my father is upset at his hard earned over 80s course record being expunged
The government comment lol 😂, I couldn't have said it any better, pure comedy 😂😂😂
Crazy, isn't it. Sport should be about grass-roots and participation, first and foremost.
Hi Mark. Fellow Woodley and Reading Parkrunner. I can no longer look up the age category record for any particular parkrun. I hold 3 locally and enjoy....enjoyed the challenge of getting more. Did Newbury parkrun today and possibly got the VM55 but now will never know. Competition is a driving force for good so this is a sad day for Parkrun in my opinion. David.
Interesting - didn’t realise you couldn’t look that up
Agree 100%, I think the removal of age category is more detrimental than fastest times. We all need a barometer to gage or progress
I’ve done a couple of parkruns this year as I come back from injury and one of my goals along the way back to fitness was to pick up the infamous duck pond age-cat record. The impact of removing age-cat records is that I am just less like likely to do parkruns. I’ll probably still do some but one of the motivations has gone.
If you're David Parton, then you did get the v55 record on Saturday.........I only know this because all the records are still displayed on the 5k app. Congrats!
Now imagine how demotivated you would be as a female to have your record beaten by a man claiming to be a woman
9:00 I’m a swimmer who runs for a bit of fun and any time I go for a fast 5k time it’s at a Parkrun. For me, course records were incredibly useful as an incentive to turn up and run faster, bringing me great reward when I first went sub 17 on my birthday to get the 15-17 course record. It made me happier to see my name up there when I managed to lower my time to 16:14 in the past year. These records will be a thing I miss as they have often helped me run faster to try and get an age group record or even an overall course record. Maybe I am in a privileged position where they are a tool I can use to incentify myself but as a runner who doesn’t do many road races it was a nice form of motivation.
Probably a good thing to learn how to self-motivate.
@@listeytrue, but it was a nice way to know my progress was going on the right direction
My take as someone who does look regularly at these records (context: I've been a 28 minute 5km runner, and a 17 min 5km runner, currently sit somewhere between, and love Park Run): I use the records to work out where to go and run my sessions if I'm somewhere new - e.g. if I'm on holiday in Manchester I'd look at records to work out where I'd likely get a fast field of folks to run with, this is a relatively niche use case, and Strava would also give me this information.
My worries with the change are:
1. Records often drive news coverage of Park Run (Ciara Mageean and Andy Butchart both got good coverage recently) and therefore introduce people to Park Run - could less records mean less news coverage? Maybe.
2. Records might entice elite athletes to come down to Park Run for their sessions. Do I want to see Philly Bowden striding off into the distance and crushing my local Park Run while she trains for a 2.25 marathon? Hell yeh I do. Will she be less enticed by lack of a record? Again, maybe.
I'd tend to agree that the change won't really impact 'accessibility' - generally I find this patronising, and would rather some honesty than anything else. I'd also rather that Park Run, like every other business on the planet, maybe trials this - could you run a test with a big Park Run for 3 months - taking records off and tracking participation? Yes. Would that be hard to do? Absolutely not. If the framing was "we've tested this and it boosts participation by 20%" I'd have absolutely zero worries about the change...
Elite or semi Elite runners do park run for their sponsors for promotion on the social channels of their choice. They'll still show up. The titles about speed/records are just click bait.
But if they admit that some dork will try and sue for discrimination then no more park run.
Your argument is invalidated by the fact they still post average finish time so you can use that to compare...
The question still remains, is it okay for trans women to have there records categorised as female?
I gotta be honest, I really appreciate how progressive your channel is. Not that i'm surprised that it is--but it's just really refreshing and appreciated to hear from a guy who knows stuff who isn't such a Chad about it. We really appreciate it.
"Once the trans issue is resolved" ....... nice, couldn't stop laughing at that one!
I love Parkrun and the fact it is freely available to all. For me it's a personal challenge. I'm racing myself and a few mates. I think it's wise to move away from records for all sorts of reasons x
Great video. Calm, thoughtful, and realistic, especially in comparison to many of the others on this topic. 👍🏼
Exactly Mark sums it up , I Marshalled here in Cornwall this Saturday it rained for most of the run , so impressed to see people putting in the effort , getting it done in the rain
As a guy I would like to know how the female competitors feel about this situation being it is mainly them it would affect.
we dont like it. another female category being infiltrated by biological men and having to change things to suit them. enough is enough with this crap.
Well put Cindy, well put. Agree with all your points
😂indeed
Thanks for adding your voice to this particular conversation. Both entertaining and thoughtful as always.
8:43 is spot on .... I just came from park run today ... Elite runners usually just record their time for fun ... I got lapped by a sub 17 guy today and after recording time he kept on running and again overtook me .... Sub 20 is surely an alien world for me right now pushing towards sub 30 right now.....
All the best with your running, and good luck for sub 30 👍
As a beginner, knowing the course record is a great way of knowing how difficult the course is although I suppose the average time will still be a good guide?
Still haven't done my first park run yet and this won't make a blind bit of difference to when I decide to finally participate but it might make it slightly more difficult to decide which one to do......
Only been running for 8 weeks but ready to have a go as soon as a little niggle in my calf disappears..... Really looking forward to it.
Thanks for another great video as always.
As a tail-plodder myself, my advice to you would be to just go and do it!
Je ne regrette rien.
Don't even worry about average times, as these are also influenced by the number of people walking rather than running.
(You can either love me or loathe me for dragging down the average finish time!)
As 20min-ish runner trying to make the sub 17 list was quite motivating. I think that’s what bugs me, we all Parkrun for different motivations at different stages of the journey, and it feels like they’ve stripped some objectives from a few, when I don’t think anybody was really put off by them. If that was the issue you’d stop timing the event. Now you mentioned the trans issue, it actually makes a bit more sense.
Forget the leaders, i need to stop eating as much, my last three parkrun times have been awful. Need to get back under 30 mins again.
Then again it was a mudbath in yorkshire today!
Me and three others discussed this at the finish today, we all agreed turning up and actually finishing today was most important thing, by a long way. I really wish i could talk more people into parkrun as best thing I've doing in past year.
Great video. You are so good at speaking. I love your jokes and parables.
I think hopefully the controversy will attract more new members to parkrun. 😂
Basically, there is your beer mile time, Olympic medals, and all the rest is just jogging around.
They are a volunteer organization. They don't have the time or funds for the drama.
Have you read the annual report and seen the millions they get in govt grants, i.e. our taxes? The board take around a million a year between them and the founder plus his wife around 130 to 150k a year in pay. Its only voluntary at the event level.
@@gourdbox I tend to agree with you. I started my boycott of our two local PRs this morning. As a 'geezer' with my best times well in my past, the age graded league and AG categories were good motivators. I will find other alternatives for my Saturday hard run, just as I had for the decades I ran before I started Parkruns.
Another take: They hoped if they deleted the times, they'd avoid gender drama. Instead they now they have two problems: Trans runners are taking women's times en masse, and park run look like they're covering it up, which just makes it worse.
Best thing they could have done would have been to continue to do nothing, leave everything as is and not even engage the anti-trans activists
Parkrun UK have generated all this drama and attention on itself as a result of acting to appease them. It was basically a non-issue before
@@KevinJDildonik main mess up was doing it without consulting their regulars. That looks arrogant.
Thanks for the video Mark, I wasn't aware ParkRun had removed the records. I'm running my first ParkRun soon and was genuinely curious not really to see the fastest or slowest times, but to see where I may come among people in my age range. I guess in the fullness of time I'd have liked to know that for my age and stage I was at least above average; or strive eventually to be so. The course average will have to do then I guess. Anyhow, thanks for the video, helps a lot!
Spot on there! This is FREE weekly timed event every Saturday, my own records are still there, I never was interested in who was fastest just average time which gives indication on how tough it is and that was my aim to be above average doing parkrun tourism
In Montana, my closest park run is 9ish hours (by car) away. I'd love to see a park run start up locally. When I heard about this I was worried you wouldn't be able to see your personal stats. Plenty of people could use park run to track their progress without having to spend any money on fancy kit. It sounds like that is still available. Seems like they made the best of a bad situation.
But you get cowboys hats and trucks. So don’t complain 😂
Would you love it enough to volunteer to organize it yourself?
Suggesting that the inclusion of trans people somehow ruins park run is bonkers to me. We should celebrate every person who takes part!
Yes but they need to run under their biological sex or in a separate trans category.
@@rl7012 so are you then going to separate trans women on & HRT & those who are not (Penalising those who cant get treatment because of the 20-30 year NHS waiting ), those who had surgery, those who didn't & what about intersex women ? What about LGB women ? What about race ? What about separating people by wealth (as that is surely going to be a big factor in performance). Where are are you going to stop ? And how are you going to police it ?
@@user-nm9nz9ze4i Stop being hysterical. Categories for biological sexes and a separate one for trans if they don't want to compete under their biological sex. What is so difficult about that?
And how am I going to police it?? Seriously? You never heard of the honour system? It has been in use for thousands of years it is where people are HONEST and tick the right biological sex box. If someone lies though and they get caught, simple, they just get disqualified and booted out. But you seem to be saying that all the transgenders are liars then and won't be honest? If that is the case, then once they get caught they can jog on somewhere else. It is not hard to tick the right box. If they can't do that, then deserve to be booted out.
@@user-nm9nz9ze4i literally. and if they're making this exclusion based on 'unfair advantage' then shouldn't cis categories be split into height, weight, age, experience etc as well?
@@benfoxhall1095But they were separated by age. Because it has a huge effect. As does biological sex.
Great video, sums up my feeling on it all perfectly.
Perfect analysis, 100% spot on Mark.
Top drawer.
It’s total BS - top 500 fastest runs was such a great feature
We don't have this in US, so who knows. I always thought park run was an unofficial event. Not a race. So you show up and run. Yes, they tell you a time. But it's not a race, not official. So I don't get why they ever published anything. Makes sense to not release results.
We do! Look up Park Run US. There are none in my location, but there are many runs.
“Run across a muddy field then go for coffee and cake” - what a great summary of what parkrun is! Love it!
Think you’ve pretty much summed it up. Nice video 👍
The only people who care about course records are the actual people who have them and who are in the sub17 and sub 20 categories (including myself). It’s pretty annoying that the competition side of parkrun has been completely dismissed because of a tiny minority 😢.
One of my friends is a regular sub 17 runner but he is a competitive runner and has been for years so he has actual events to train for.
But others have parkrun as their only run with or against other people. Its good to get a gauge of how you're progressing or not. I have a friend who was always slower than me but now regularly beats me. Neither of us are going to be affected by this thankfully , we aren't troubling record holders.
It's only delusional to think that I can mark my age as 82 if I'm 62; but I could surely set some nice records. I would be ashamed if I did though....
Just found your channel. And subscribed. You are definitely better at this TH-cam stuff than me 😂 . Regarding parkrun. You can still easily find the fastest Male / Female times. Just go to event history and order by Male/Female first finishers. What you can't easily do now is find the grade rated records, which I always found that more interesting. I like to put the course stats on my TH-cam parkrun vlogs so it is a shame that parkrun are making it more difficult to find the records but they are still on the 5k app (for now).
I think you sum it up very well mark. I was very close to my parkrun record a few years ago, it's pushed on another 30 seconds now so probably out of my reach.
It was a fun thing with a few other runners who you see most weeks and was a big motivator for me for a time.
I appreciate I have other event and things going on but that does feel a bit like "oh they're fast so they don't need those little things to make the feel good, or motivate them"
I'm probably a bit more personally offended Vs you but I don't really care. It does leave me with the feeling though that another thing in life is being removed due to over sensitive people pressuring big companies/institutions
Who's next Strava, Zwift? Ebikes and weight dopers? It's supposed to be fun. But we all love stats..well some of us do. Your points are all valid and rational but I feel that Parkrun is the worse for it all. It's a shame. Parkrun is still amazing and I will continue to support and participate..but hold no age group course records
some events I been in have the non binary category.
I had a few course records here, i’m not devo it. But the timing, the course records and the age grades were great. I have a coach, a training group and I race during the domestic season. My mum walks, she doesn’t have people to compare herself to on a weekly basis, she loved knowing her age grade each week.
Love your very reasonable take on a very dicey topic
Strava segments next, those pesky cyclists bagging running records and then electric bike cyclists bagging bike records 😂
I have a Strava segment in my area where someone ran at 198mph...unless they were in an aeroplane I'd say dodgy GPS is to blame for many records, either that or someone has a great throwing arm and a broken watch 😂
Held my breath clicking on this video but i think you're pretty much spot on - why this is parkrun's problem to solve is beyond me.
Professional athletics is another issue, and still one that can be approached with compassion and without the hatred of innocent individual people who just want to exercise, run amd even compete as themselves.
Why do they then pander to trans runners. 0.0000001% of their participants if that and yet here we are excluding the 99.9999999% of people just to save about 10 peoples hurt feelings.
Lmao one of these "you are not pro! Why do you care?" people
@@coldworld5 I don’t think it’s pandering I think it’s too hard for a volunteer organised event to police as ML stated. Not every professional sport has sorted the issue yet, which is way worse. Look at the mess of college swimming in the US.
@@coldworld5They're not pandering to trans people. They're pandering to rightwing shitheads taking issue over their voluntary gender registration process enabling ragistration as female to anyone. You're barking the wrong tree. I'm pretty sure there were 0 trans runners asking to take the times down.
The professional organisations have sorted it. Parkrun just refuse to apply the rules.
Really need to try a Parkrun someday. Saw there's one in Stuttgart which is a bit of a way to get there but... I mean I'm always running relatively long in training and forcing myself to do a 5k with higher intensity could be a lot of fun
As always, a great video Mark. 👍
This whole discussion is confusing to me as a back of the pack-er. Before doing a race for the first time the stats I'm checking are the slowest times, to make sure the volunteers won't be out there an extra 30 minutes just for me. I don't care AT ALL what the front is doing.
I’ll provide no commentary and just give you a this comment to help your algorithm. Love the channel
I’ll take that 😂
😂
I've never done a parkrun, we don't have them here where I live but after watching this video and hearing about what they did it makes me wonder one thing: Is Strava going to follow suit? They have the KOM and QOM stats for segments. Will they remove it for all or put it behind the subscription so they can make some money.
Hi Mark. I've had a hard time relating to runners being a tall overweight bloke myself. Your videos have inspired me and now I've lost a stone and I have two 5k runs under my belt
Awesome 🙌
Exactly. Your point that slow/new runners wouldn't be put off knowing what the course record is is exactly right. Like, nothing is stopping them from looking up the world record for 5k either. Also, if you run a parkrun slowly, you ALREADY KNOW you are slow - when you get lapped! Parkrun is essentially disincentivising those faster runners who would do the lapping from attending the event, to make everyone feel less bad about themselves. It's so bizarre, and frustrating.
Plus, I don't think people feel bad when someone runs quickly, from my experience they respect the graft!
I find it hard to believe anyone who runs a parkrun in near-record time actually gives a hoot that their time no longer appears on the Parkrun website. I would think those people are treating the Parkrun as lighthearted fun training.
oh God.. I hadn't thought about those being lapped.. we've got a complete new category from which people can feel offended! Time to ban all courses with more than one lap!
@@nrjonesy It seems some runners do it only to prove they are better than others.
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx really? Ive lapped and been lapped and happily cheered on the faster runners and never felt they purposely lapped me to feel better about themselves.. if they do, I'd feel a bit sorry for them tbh. if it made them feel special, good luck to them.. it wouldnt ruin my day!
Mark, I found out about, and started running at Parkrun after binge-watching you in July last year. I'm 51, 87kg now. I was 139kg in May 2022 and currently run 40k a week. So, thank you very much for the introduction and the self-help inspiration, to get myself above average, which I will be very, very soon.
As for the Parkrun changes, I think it's the first step on a downward slope. The way these things generally go, the loud voices that drown out all others just make more and more demands for change. So this is the first attempt at appeasement, and is far from the last. I wonder what will be next, finishing position? Your time? The number of participants? The same argument can be made for the removal of all of these.
The only time I took any real notice of previous records was when looking for my first Parkrun my nearest was far to fast for me at 65 so I found one more suited to my abilities. Because of that first informed descion I am still at Parkrun and dont know if this is allowed any more but enjoy the competative spirit amongst people of the same ability / age has massively improved my fitness and made saturdays something to look forward to.
This stuff will never end. That's what upsets most, it isn't this one issue.
hey mark, thanks for tackling this topic in a sensible and rational way. i'm a trans woman that is trying to get more into running and does parkrun every now and then. personally i put myself down as male on parkrun's site, partly because i don't care much for contributing to those culture arguments, but also because even for something i suck at like running im too competative to not want to compare against biological males in my age range even if im at a disadvantage to those runners
anyway the main reason im leaving a comment is because interestingly enough, you can still look up who has the fastest ever times at specific parkrun courses on their site. if on a course page you hover over results and go to event histroy, you can filter that course's parkruns buy fastest male and fastest female times, so it's not like theyve even scrapped it altogether
The problem is that this isn't Parkruns's problem, and in the current climate they have no way to do anything that won't anger a large cohort on either side.
I'm very data-focussed, so I like the records, and all the stats, and don't find it off-putting at all.
But there isn’t a “huge cohort” on either side. There is 99.9999% normal man/woman people who just want to go for a run and see their numbers progress as they improve and then there is about 200 extreme trans activists on Twitter that me pander too.
And the irony is, my trans best mate and all her group of trans mates absolutely hate these activists because it makes their lives hell.
U were born a female, just select female. If born as a man, select man. Pretty easy
But it won't anger a large cohort on both sides, will it?. On one side it will anger a large majority, whereas on the other side it would anger a vanishingly few, but very vocal, group of trouble-making individuals, the 'usual suspects' if you like.
@@coldworld5and for all of these 200 odd activists you say there are there’s 5x that amount who hate they exist. Parkrun were caught between a rock and a hard place. What else could they have done?
@@sjbgilmore there is always going to be bigots. There are people who hate that anyone exists.
Park run could have done nothing. Or they could have made another category or they could have needed ID if you break a record.
While Mark is clearly framing any man who speaks out for women as transphobic I like many others have daughters.
I don’t care what ‘ist’ I’m accused of being. I don’t want biological males in their changing rooms and I don’t want biological males demolishing them in the respective sports they compete in.
The only people that are genuinely upset about this are the ones that are constantly checking their statuses on Strava or racing you off the lights with their midlife crisis cars.
One thing that's important to note, as someone who has never done a parkrun but was thinking about doing one, is that I'd like to see the number of participants. It would be good for me to decide which one I'd like to do as a high number of people running it each week must mean it isn't a terrible course.
Idk my parkrun record was kinda important to me, because I never did very well in proper races
I used to love looking at the age group course records, they inspired me to improve and train harder, even though I would never attain one of the records, very disappointed.
Parkrun started as a time trial!!
My PB is around the 20 min mark. As I get better I'm sure I'll get faster, and always enjoyed seeing what the top performers could do on any given course. I drew inspiration from it and felt like it gave me something specific to work towards on any given course. So it was a feature I liked. Not broken up about it, but it certainly is a mild inconvenience.
Wow, you basically nailed it. Impressive take.
I agree with you 99%. 2 things. 1) you can still see the 'course record' just sort the results by fastest time on event history 2) whilst you, and I, would not be put off in the slightest by there being a course record and it being prominently displayed, I believe 100% that are is a non-trivial number of people that are that sensitive and would be put off by that, and they are the exact people that should be doing parkrun.
Progressive people often have a problem trying to cater to a minority of people, and hurting everyone in the process. It's the opposite of the conservative problem which can be more screw you if I stand to gain. Neither is exactly right. Like why can't people opt out of time tracking? Problem solved.
Understand some might fine it offputting but wouldn't that be easily fixed by just making the stats less visible, so you have to actively seek them out, rather than scrapping them altogether?
@@SimonBransfieldGarthagree with you there still have them just make them harder to find
@@SimonBransfieldGarthyou do have to actively seek them out though already.
If seeing someone's fast time would put you off attending, surely seeing an equal amount of very slow times which there are plenty should have the opposite effect. It's a nonsense argument
The irony of an 'above average' mug with a broken handle 😂
As a 63 year old non club runner, Park Runs gave me the age group competition to better the local oldies and got me out of bed to drive 10 miles to my local Park Run on a Saturday morning. It is now pointless, I can just do my close to home beach and bush runs and run against my smart watch.
It's definitely not for Parkrun to sort this out, even if it needs 'sorting'. The rules on eligibility from England Athletics (via UK Athletics via World Athletics) for competition eligibility aren't overly complex but well beyond the scope of a volunteer organisation to contemplate dealing with. It's hard enough for affiliated local clubs to do and we cop enough grief when trying to comply!
I'm an infrequent Park-runner but I really like being able to see the course records and historical results, particularly age-graded. Partly to see how I stack up against other 50-somethings and it's nice to see what others can achieve.
Removing the age graded thing is frustrating. I'm slow, can barely jog around a 5km due to muscular skeletal problems but I like to see how close I can get to average for my age even with the additional health stuff. It motivates me
Those organisations have ‘sorted it’. Then Parkrun decided that they were going to ignore those rules.
@@kevinmorice2 there's no way for Parkrun to enforce it though other than the honour system.
Without forcing people to be UKA (or whatever your local national governing body is) members.. which is another hurdle for people to cross.
@@IainThacker Change the registration system to specify sex at birth - done. Also, what is wrong with the honour system? It will be enforced by the rest of the community, as has effectively been done here.
Why has it taken Men losing their records for people to notice years of Women being pissed off about losing their records?
Also, the bigger question of how Parkrun exists outside UKA/IAAF system has always been ridiculous, and driven by their insistence that they wouldnt submit permits and Policing requests like any ‘real’ race is forced to do.
@@kevinmorice2 and how will that be enforced....are people supposed to bring birth certificates to a park run?
Also, affectively forcing trans people to out themselves just to do a fun run really isn't an option!!
Should onus not be on how you register? Trans issue is not really an issue if people registered correctly. There should be a distinction made between trans males, trans females, cis-male, cis-female. I think the records are a good thing to measure your progress.
Yeah but the problem there is, who decides who has registered "correctly"? That would be a huge can of worms for Parkrun. Like what actually IS the distinction between trans and cis? If all it comes down to is identity, then that's literally impossible to moderate. A person can choose to identify as anything they want, at any time they want, regardless of how they've lived their life up to that point.
Age category records for kids were a good source of motivation. Lots of kids would try to get the JM10/JW10 etc. record before they aged out of the category, or they'd try get a course record at junior parkrun before getting too old for it. It was nice for their development as they got older and faster.
Surely there are just regular kids athletics, both track and cross country, available where they can compete if that is the goal? You'll get local, regional and national records, all the benchmarks you'll ever need, and no need to run around the woman with the pram and the 6 foot 6 guy with the dog by the duck pond.
@@kimaboe Good point. It is great to see the kids enjoying getting faster (one was chasing me down a couple of weeks ago and his Dad was really struggling to keep up with him). As you say, if kids are closing on the junior records they'll be seriously good runners who enjoy what they're doing. They'll probably be on the various school teams, and local athletic clubs will want to snap them up.
We also need to think about the kids who'll never be close to winning, the ones picked last for the football teams, the ones for who PE lessons are a lesson in humiliation. These are the kids who'll end up avoiding exercise, have low self esteem, end up comfort eating junk food. They need to learn that exercise can be a fun and social experience.
@@jacklurcher5813 I am by no means a good runner now, but back when I was in high-school I was in awful shape. Mostly due to asthma, but I also had zero interest in organised sports.
I ended up finding my way to biking and then trail running on my own around age 16, and in a couple of years went from literally throwing up after two laps on the track during gym class, to running a 10k in the top few people in my year. That was a result of running for its own sake, without caring about times or competition.
But I think that if I had done a few park runs as a kid, seen that things didn't need to be competition... there is a decent chance I'd have gotten 7-8 years more of good health as a kid and teenager. The kids who did track and field didn't need that.
Thanks for this video.
I really enjoyed Park run last year, and seeing my stats (and I'm pretty slow lol) as well as other people's was interesting and motivating for me, this is such a shitty change
This is just a fantastic video. I am going to go run around the park instead of worrying about this topic at all.
Crap, my 11min 12sec parkrun world record is gone. You’ll have to take my word for it I guess
I suggest all runners ask their Run Directors for a vote, and report the results to HQ
i miss the results tbh, i like the numbers esp for the juniors. Some of the neurodiverse kids that come along are totally motivated and study the stats, its kinda their thing and helps keep them interested. i went touring today and did miss my glimpse of my age group at the new place. it gives me a feel for how popular and you can see if there are famous people who ran it even if you didnt go the same week as them.
Spot on. There was no need to remove the junior results. For children, watching their times and positions on leaderboards improve, (as junior times naturally will), could be a massive spur.
Am I missing something? The weekly results look the same to me, you can still study those if you want, see the names of everyone else on there and their age categories. All that's gone is the overall course records, which don't change that much.
@FedoraPirate course records gone, fastest 500 gone, sub-17 male gone, sub-20 female gone, age category records gone, age-graded league gone, 1st finishers gone. All these stats were studied in detail by many many runners, especially the younger athletes, many of whom take their rankings very seriously.
@@thegearboxman I used the "Attendance Records" (also gone) as a handy, alphabetical list of avaialble events.
"Search" function also removed.
@@FedoraPirate i prefer to look at how i am doing in my gender age category as a slow runner its more realistic for me and look for how i do against friends of my age and esp if i tour. i do much better against my age than i feel i do from the actual run as there are often a lot of male 20-30 year olds so it helps me motivate myself. i cant click on my age anymore.
If Parkrun isn't a race and times aren't important, why are the results posted on the Power of 10 and Run Britain?
They might not be in the future. I for one would be disappointed to see them go. It’s a run not a race.
I have never understood this because of the lack of verification of data. Maybe this will make them think...
Yep, good analogy 😂 when I saw the change described I was very concerned. Seeing my time improving and comparing myself to others in the same age group is quite motivating. The reality though, as you say, is that it only really affects runners who will be setting great times in actual races. Still sad to see the toy thrown in the bin but I don’t see how parkrun could solve the issue being complained of in an effective way.
My husband and I are slow/average runners and we both enjoyed looking at the fastest records in amazement of both male and female and it never put us off. I’m really disappointed the average attendance has gone too, especially here in the states where the attendance is a lot lower. It’s hard to get parkrun taken seriously in the US and I think it will put off potential runners here who turn their nose up at it, thinking it’s just for slow runners or walkers.
Thank you for once again bringing some sanity to a silly blown out of all proportion situation.
I try 😂
What sanity? He practically took the knee to the woke mob and encouraged his followers to do the same too.
Totally agree with you Mark; governments need to do way more to get behind fitness. At my work, I tell my staff that if they want to be late because they want to squeeze a run in before work or a workout, it doesn’t matter to me. I want fit staff and that’s just my small part! Governments can do more!!
Love that!
that's awesome! I imagine nobody takes the mick?
What should the government do?
Here in the US we have the President's Council on Sports, Fitness and Nutrition (it's a wonder it hasn't been defunded out of existence) health.gov/pcsfn. Is there not something similar in the UK? Your Tory government has been doing austerity, cutting taxes and spending and causing a recession, right? Perhaps the people should do something about that? ;-)
I think the government should do LESS. I like the Ringo Starr Quote: "Everything the government touches turns to shit."
Excellent explanation. If I ever ran in 1 parkrun, I would want to know how I compared to the average. If I ran multiple parkruns, I would want to compete with my previous times, that I would already know.
Spot on Mark. If serious runners are that keen on racing and beating Parkrun records, they really should go and join a running club.
easy said, until you finally place on a podium and it motivates you to bea those 30 seconds. With your attitude you can pull it through all the way to the olympics and the world records. Its an internal pride of 100s maybe 1000s of people that got token away by some transgender people that had to ruin the party. Thats how my competitive spirit thinks of it. Marc stood on a podium once he should know that is a pride he can carry internally for years to come. It has nothing to do with world records but a feeling of accomplishment in a personal journey. transpeople need their own section in the record books and it shouldnt be put on the burden of the local volunteers and cheaters should be let out of the books. If you are so hard in denial of your birth gender that you make it a personal issue and change i dont mind. BUt if you make it a public issue posing it on all others in all parts of life i do mind and it pisses me off. Its almost like a southpark kind of cynism i feel wiht this whole ordeal.
As a female born female i would not like to be running against a female born male pfft thats a sentence i never thought i would have to write 😅
Just call them what they are Male and Female, I’ve found it’s so much easier. Then let them call themselves whatever they want.
You covered this topic perfectly Mark
Yes there is a conversation to be had on professional trans athletes.
but please can we all just turn up to run in a park on a Saturday without it turning political.
This feels similar to those app updates on your phone that don't actually improve them and sometimes make them worse.
It's like someone's gotta justify the existence of their job, and so they spend time fixing what isn't broken.
Well done mark,well balanced video
I wish ppl would understand that even just turning up and getting round a 5km is better than 99% of the population (yes I pulled that number out my ass) but you see my point.
The obvious point for me is that park run does not have the resources to verify records. And any steps to so would be way to over the top.
Its a fun run that's getting all a bit too serious.
Its a shame the records can't stand - but if there is no integrity to them - they are pointless anyway!
When you win a race and there is no second or third on the podium , elite athlete
I was a fatty! I went with my kids. I was welcomed and encouraged at my park run!
The volunteers at Aspatria park run; shout outs to Roy, Sue, sally, Geoff and Fiona; they welcomed and encouraged me! I lost weight, I got fitter my times improved!
Let’s just welcome and encourage each other