I think Before They Are Hanged beat middle book syndrome for me and I gave it a 5/5. First Law is a series that just gets better each book imo. Such a great series
West biting off that Northman nose was my favorite scene in the book. Especially when hearing it on audiobook with Pacey instense reading of “Bite Bite Bite”
54:10 Austin doesn't know how tragic Three Trees death is yet. You have to keep reading Joe's books to really feel it. The Northmen still talk about how great 3-Trees is 7 years later during 'The Heroes'
The Cycle of Failure aspect is probably the thing that stuck with me the most. Because we grow up being told hard work and achievement is what we need to succeed and sometimes that’s the case, but just as frequently it’s not and as we live we amass loads of experience of failing forward.
Threetree's is kind of like Eddard where other characters constantly reference him as being someone who is good or a good leader. "Threetree's wouldn't let this happen," etc.,
This entire book I was PRAYING that the north man brought up nine fingers more to west so he could connect the dots that Logan was still alive and tell them, I NEED MY HOMIES TO KNOW HES ALIVE. Also i physically need Logan and ferro to get together.
Between Darrow a Nine Fingers is closed, but I have to go with Darrow. Those Dark Age chapters with Lysander describing Darrow’s incredible violence is probably the best thing I’ve read in my live
I love that you guys are reviewing this just after The Blade Itself. I just finished The Blade Itself a few days ago and I’m starting Before They Are Hanged today. Gonna watch the spoiler free today and come back to this review for the spoiler talk later. Love your podcast!
This is my favourite part of the original trilogy, due to the structure (a great mix between the North stuff, the Dagoska stuff and the fellowship stuff) and development of some characters (mostly Jezal and Ferro). There are things about the plot I don't like, but to me it's still a great, very enjoyable book overall.
Just finished this yesterday! Another banger from Abercrombie! And definitely a step up from book 1 (which was already spectacular)! Finally there are clear moving plots amongst the various characters. Glokta and Logen are still my favorite characters. Their internal monologues consistently made me laugh out loud 😂
I'm really excited because Abercrombie's plotting and the messages woven through the fabric of his work only improve through the standalone and - by god - the second trilogy. Please please please continue with it!!! Goodreads is hardly gospel but the 2nd and 3rd books in the sequels are both hold like 4.60 averages
Excited to see the feelings on book 3. Last Argument of Kings is not only my favorite of the 9 first law books, but in my top 3 fantasy books of all time.
Finally! Someone is on the same page with me! Glokta is least fav and Jezal is a favourite characters in the book. (Also i reeaaaly love our northerners)
I just recently finished Best Served Cold. Abercrombie gets better and better. He is the master of making every little moment count, even if the big picture isn't all that unique in fantasy. Maybe I'll just continue the series at the pace you guys move along. The riffing in these discussions is golden!
I told you guys, the first book was the best 😊. And it has nothing to do with the pacing. It's all about the characters' debt...Glad you agree with me 😃😃😃
Jezal supremacyyyy>>> 🤩 Also, with everything you guys said here I feel like you two would both find favourites in some of the standalones, as they offer exactly what you are looking for. And Bloody Nine would demolish Darrow from book 1, but Darrow from Lightbringer? Could be an interesting fight. I love Darrow more though, so that is all that matters lol And my biggest beef with this entire series is honestly the fact that there's no damn map. It's a travelling quest story ffs 🤣
I’ve read pretty much all of Abercrombie’s stuff, and I’ve read the first trilogy of Red Rising, and I am 100% on board with Ninefingers >>> Darrow. And I also prefer Abercrombie’s writing style, action included, but most especially character work. My fav thing about Abercrombie-and the reason his work is my second fav of everything I’ve ever read (Wheel of Time is my all-time fav)-is his ability to depict a character’s essence in so few words and to win over a reader to like even his most highly flawed characters. I’m so looking forward to your reactions to all the rest, but most especially the Age of Madness. What an absolute masterpiece of a trilogy!
@@2ToRamble Lol I actually have nothing against Darrow. I enjoyed the trilogy. I’m waiting for the series to be completed, then I’ll read the rest. I think I just prefer detailed character work over frenetic plot pace. I’d say Abercrombie favors the former, Brown the latter.
I feel obliged to mention that Abercrombie has a map but his publisher/editor thought it was better to not put it in to avoid marking it as "one of those fantasy books" that has a map just to have a map even if it doesnt particularly influence the story. Joe agreed since he wanted a LA Confidential style story where all these characters converged and don't really know what's going on. Having a map adds to the sense of confusion about what the ultimate goal of the story is. You can find maps online though and it looks totally different geographically from what I thought!😅
@@2ToRamble I'd highly recommend getting Lienes Library to come on and talk First Law. She has provided me with so much info about the series. She had an interview with Abercrombie where he mentioned the above lol
I feel the same about Before They Are Hanged as I do about The Blade Itself, about a 4.5. I think it's something to do with Abercrombie's prose...it just feels kinda weird to me. That being said, it's not bad at all and his characters are magnificent. I think following West and the Dogman was probably my favorite. Loved the ending, subverted expectations in the best way possible. The ending made me truly wonder how the conflicts were gonna be resolved in Last Argument of Kings. Another great episode!
The hardest part about the whole series was making it through the first three to five chapters of book 1 before I was hooked on the characters. After that I was hooked
Oi! Boys! Love the series and love the episode. First off, The Bloody Nine and Logan are 2 different characters in my opinion, much like the Hulk/Bruce Banner (and Darrow/The Reaper). They are all 2 faces to the same coin, but as different as a heads and tails as both can not be shown at the same time. The Bloody Nine come out on top FOR NOW, once Red Rising ends I may have to come back and edit this post.
i feel the same way as you both do. book 1 (5 stars) and book 2 (4.5 stars) but book 3 (5 stars)was my favorite. also my favorite characters swap in between the books as well the blade itself - glokta before they are hanged - jezal last argument of kings- logen
Probably my favourite parts of before they are hanged are when jezal, broken and injurrd, thinks to himself in the back of a wagon on the endless plain. Incredible stuff
Honestly, I’m torn between whether I love Book 2 or 3 more. Both are great. The pace of the first didn’t really gel with me until the end, but Before They are Hanged actually really gripped me. Book 3 is full of good stuff. But there are so many great things from book 2 like Dagoska, the group dynamics, the twist at the end, etc. I’m still appalled the series hasn’t gotten adapted. Especially since so much of it is rather modest in scale for a fantasy series, and it feels perfect for one.
Gloktas storyline in this book id my favorite in any fantasy book. I enjoyed the bits with West and the northmen. The fellowship of the box storyline was kinda meh for me until they got to the old kingdom.
I read the first main trilogy, but I found Best Served Cold very off putting. I was fine with the depictions of violence and grim dark tone in the first series, when it felt like Abercrombie was just presenting it, but Best Served Cold seemed different. It felt like the reader was meant to take a sadistic pleasure in the violence. I like a good revenge story, but something about Best Served Cold felt excessive. I didn’t go on to read the other standalones or the second trilogy, not because I don’t want to, but because I hate the idea of skipping a book that might be relevant later, even though it’s a standalone. I would love it if anyone would tell me if you need to read Best Served Cold before the others, and if anyone has a different take on the books tone I’d love to hear it. I’m generally not squeamish about violence at all, and Best Served Cold is the only thing I’ve ever stopped reading because of the violence.
Joe Abercrombie wrote Best Served Cold that way because the violence is not justified. Monza is wrong for killing so many to get revenge. You don’t need to read best served cold or any of the standalones technically but I think ignoring them is a bad choice. The Heroes isn’t nearly as outright violent but all of these books have violence of varying degrees with characters who who will Kate and love, so get used to that.
First law is a series I really want to love. And I don't think they are bad books at all, I can't even say what it is that makes me not like them that much. It just doesn't click for me like other fantasy series do, even though I recognize that they are well written books.
@@2ToRamble If I had to put my finger on it I think I'd say it's the world that feels a bit bare and undeveloped for me. Which I can understand as the characters really are the main focus. Personally I think the world is the most important part of a fantasy series, so first law didn't click for me. Thanks for the amazing videos by the way!
@@pumpkin2477 No worries! And I definitely agree, the world is more of a vehicle for the story, nothing special, but the character work and prose was great for me. Third book disappointed me but thats for another video lol
Read the series this spring and I’m definitely in the camp of I think the books get better in the First Law trilogy as they go on but I honestly scored all three of the books 4.25. I love the Collem West arc the most in this book and when he kills Ladisa was a legit yell out loud moment for me because F that dude so I’m glad that seems to be a popular moment in the series overall! Just finished Best Served Cold and moving into the Hero’s next and I’m excited to start the Age of Madness books here soon!
If you loved Jezal's arc in this book just wait until book 3 .... I almost guarntee one of you will be shouting in the next video because of that 😂 (positively or negatively? ... Good question 😆) The Bloodynine is the only one that can beat Darrow (in his prime) in a 1v1 fight ... and it is not even close. Never bet against the bloodynine 😏
It really doesnt help that when you put on screen "Breaking News:" i missread Austin as "Autist likes action!" 😂 sry about that. Great episode. Love this series and cant wait for your next review. I have to read the second trilogy before you guys get to it.
I thought someone said knockoff LOTR in livestream 😭 edit: also i try to keep opinions more muted until we actually review them on the pod, so that Rich and I dont end up having our whole discussion of the book before we hit record.
Jezal and Jamie? I mean I guess. Couple pretty boys. I didn’t dislike jezal near as much as you did. Jamie is borderline evil before his “redemption” arc. Jezals just a vain idiot. Pretty nasty scar but a little different then losing a hand lol. You read enough books especially predominantly from the same genre you can get lost in character/trope comparisons all day. Solid vid though! Keep rambling boys
I loved every second of Sand dan Glokta trying to save the city of Dagoska.
Perfect from start to finish.
I think Before They Are Hanged beat middle book syndrome for me and I gave it a 5/5. First Law is a series that just gets better each book imo. Such a great series
West biting off that Northman nose was my favorite scene in the book. Especially when hearing it on audiobook with Pacey instense reading of “Bite Bite Bite”
54:10 Austin doesn't know how tragic Three Trees death is yet. You have to keep reading Joe's books to really feel it. The Northmen still talk about how great 3-Trees is 7 years later during 'The Heroes'
The Cycle of Failure aspect is probably the thing that stuck with me the most. Because we grow up being told hard work and achievement is what we need to succeed and sometimes that’s the case, but just as frequently it’s not and as we live we amass loads of experience of failing forward.
Threetree's is kind of like Eddard where other characters constantly reference him as being someone who is good or a good leader. "Threetree's wouldn't let this happen," etc.,
This entire book I was PRAYING that the north man brought up nine fingers more to west so he could connect the dots that Logan was still alive and tell them, I NEED MY HOMIES TO KNOW HES ALIVE. Also i physically need Logan and ferro to get together.
It’s funny that Richard hasn’t read Heroes yet because I think it will be one of his all time favourites
The Heroes is right behind or tied with LAOK for me. Best stand alone by far.
Bloody nine clears Darrow. Also I’m excited for y’all’s review of Last Argument of Kings.
Typo - i think you meant Darrow clears Bloody nine 😮💨 (bloody nine is great)
Between Darrow a Nine Fingers is closed, but I have to go with Darrow. Those Dark Age chapters with Lysander describing Darrow’s incredible violence is probably the best thing I’ve read in my live
100%
I love that you guys are reviewing this just after The Blade Itself. I just finished The Blade Itself a few days ago and I’m starting Before They Are Hanged today. Gonna watch the spoiler free today and come back to this review for the spoiler talk later. Love your podcast!
Thanks so freaking much!!
Great review as per usual! I am totally on the side that the ending is brilliant, solidified it as the best "Journey Before Destination" book for me!
This is my favourite part of the original trilogy, due to the structure (a great mix between the North stuff, the Dagoska stuff and the fellowship stuff) and development of some characters (mostly Jezal and Ferro). There are things about the plot I don't like, but to me it's still a great, very enjoyable book overall.
"The Fellowship of Bastards" I won't spoil the next book, but that is such a clever name for it, and the foreshadow is unreal with that lol.
I completely forgot that was its name. Wow, that is such a fitting name.
Just finished this yesterday! Another banger from Abercrombie! And definitely a step up from book 1 (which was already spectacular)! Finally there are clear moving plots amongst the various characters. Glokta and Logen are still my favorite characters. Their internal monologues consistently made me laugh out loud 😂
I'm really excited because Abercrombie's plotting and the messages woven through the fabric of his work only improve through the standalone and - by god - the second trilogy. Please please please continue with it!!! Goodreads is hardly gospel but the 2nd and 3rd books in the sequels are both hold like 4.60 averages
Yes, let the grim darkness flow through you.
Really excited for you guys to cover the next book. Easily top 3 fantasy books for me.
Oh can’t wait to listen to this one
This hurts when it was my subjective fave of the trilogy … but it’s ok. Ig it just didn’t teeter his totter.
Excited to see the feelings on book 3. Last Argument of Kings is not only my favorite of the 9 first law books, but in my top 3 fantasy books of all time.
Oo damn 👀
Finally! Someone is on the same page with me! Glokta is least fav and Jezal is a favourite characters in the book.
(Also i reeaaaly love our northerners)
I just recently finished Best Served Cold. Abercrombie gets better and better. He is the master of making every little moment count, even if the big picture isn't all that unique in fantasy. Maybe I'll just continue the series at the pace you guys move along. The riffing in these discussions is golden!
I told you guys, the first book was the best 😊. And it has nothing to do with the pacing. It's all about the characters' debt...Glad you agree with me 😃😃😃
The slight chuckle from both of you about the feet thing tickled me 😂
😂
@@2ToRamble I feel like I took a stray with The Wise Man's Fear T_T
Bloody Nine btw
@@qbanboi069 booo
I had this one as 4.5 as well. I got bored with the Glokta chapters toward the middle of the book, but it came back around and finished strong.
I still have the second trilogy to read but so far my favourite it The Heroes or Red Country. Depends on how I'm feeling.
Jezal supremacyyyy>>> 🤩
Also, with everything you guys said here I feel like you two would both find favourites in some of the standalones, as they offer exactly what you are looking for. And Bloody Nine would demolish Darrow from book 1, but Darrow from Lightbringer? Could be an interesting fight. I love Darrow more though, so that is all that matters lol
And my biggest beef with this entire series is honestly the fact that there's no damn map. It's a travelling quest story ffs 🤣
You love Darrow more? Amazing comment. Correct. (And the lack of map is rough 😂)
My favorite top 3 First Law:
Trouble With Peace/
Before They Were Hanged/
Best Served Cold
I’ve read pretty much all of Abercrombie’s stuff, and I’ve read the first trilogy of Red Rising, and I am 100% on board with Ninefingers >>> Darrow. And I also prefer Abercrombie’s writing style, action included, but most especially character work. My fav thing about Abercrombie-and the reason his work is my second fav of everything I’ve ever read (Wheel of Time is my all-time fav)-is his ability to depict a character’s essence in so few words and to win over a reader to like even his most highly flawed characters.
I’m so looking forward to your reactions to all the rest, but most especially the Age of Madness. What an absolute masterpiece of a trilogy!
The Darrow slander hurts me, but yes - very excited to read Age if Madness!
@@2ToRamble Lol I actually have nothing against Darrow. I enjoyed the trilogy. I’m waiting for the series to be completed, then I’ll read the rest. I think I just prefer detailed character work over frenetic plot pace. I’d say Abercrombie favors the former, Brown the latter.
Richard will definately give The Heroes a 6/5 when he reads it. He will drool with that book.
Oo. Im now very curious what he’ll think
Just finished this book today. Didnt quite line up for the review, but close enough
Starting this one today
I feel obliged to mention that Abercrombie has a map but his publisher/editor thought it was better to not put it in to avoid marking it as "one of those fantasy books" that has a map just to have a map even if it doesnt particularly influence the story. Joe agreed since he wanted a LA Confidential style story where all these characters converged and don't really know what's going on. Having a map adds to the sense of confusion about what the ultimate goal of the story is. You can find maps online though and it looks totally different geographically from what I thought!😅
Oh rly!? I never heard about this - we figured Abercrombie just wasnt a fan of maps
@@2ToRamble I'd highly recommend getting Lienes Library to come on and talk First Law. She has provided me with so much info about the series. She had an interview with Abercrombie where he mentioned the above lol
I feel the same about Before They Are Hanged as I do about The Blade Itself, about a 4.5. I think it's something to do with Abercrombie's prose...it just feels kinda weird to me. That being said, it's not bad at all and his characters are magnificent. I think following West and the Dogman was probably my favorite. Loved the ending, subverted expectations in the best way possible. The ending made me truly wonder how the conflicts were gonna be resolved in Last Argument of Kings. Another great episode!
Thank you!
I agree with Austin on everything. Not surprising, since he was right about WoT.
😁😮💨
This is so refreshing, I thought I was the only one that loved the first book the most 😅
The hardest part about the whole series was making it through the first three to five chapters of book 1 before I was hooked on the characters. After that I was hooked
Fair - I think Rich and I were both hooked immediately with Glokta’s opening!
Oi! Boys! Love the series and love the episode.
First off, The Bloody Nine and Logan are 2 different characters in my opinion, much like the Hulk/Bruce Banner (and Darrow/The Reaper). They are all 2 faces to the same coin, but as different as a heads and tails as both can not be shown at the same time.
The Bloody Nine come out on top FOR NOW, once Red Rising ends I may have to come back and edit this post.
Fair!
i feel the same way as you both do. book 1 (5 stars) and book 2 (4.5 stars) but book 3 (5 stars)was my favorite. also my favorite characters swap in between the books as well
the blade itself - glokta
before they are hanged - jezal
last argument of kings- logen
Probably my favourite parts of before they are hanged are when jezal, broken and injurrd, thinks to himself in the back of a wagon on the endless plain. Incredible stuff
Honestly, I’m torn between whether I love Book 2 or 3 more. Both are great. The pace of the first didn’t really gel with me until the end, but Before They are Hanged actually really gripped me.
Book 3 is full of good stuff. But there are so many great things from book 2 like Dagoska, the group dynamics, the twist at the end, etc.
I’m still appalled the series hasn’t gotten adapted. Especially since so much of it is rather modest in scale for a fantasy series, and it feels perfect for one.
Gloktas storyline in this book id my favorite in any fantasy book. I enjoyed the bits with West and the northmen. The fellowship of the box storyline was kinda meh for me until they got to the old kingdom.
Let’s gooo!! Austin’s reading books I’ve read!!
😂
I was excited for this one!
I read the first main trilogy, but I found Best Served Cold very off putting. I was fine with the depictions of violence and grim dark tone in the first series, when it felt like Abercrombie was just presenting it, but Best Served Cold seemed different. It felt like the reader was meant to take a sadistic pleasure in the violence. I like a good revenge story, but something about Best Served Cold felt excessive. I didn’t go on to read the other standalones or the second trilogy, not because I don’t want to, but because I hate the idea of skipping a book that might be relevant later, even though it’s a standalone. I would love it if anyone would tell me if you need to read Best Served Cold before the others, and if anyone has a different take on the books tone I’d love to hear it. I’m generally not squeamish about violence at all, and Best Served Cold is the only thing I’ve ever stopped reading because of the violence.
Joe Abercrombie wrote Best Served Cold that way because the violence is not justified. Monza is wrong for killing so many to get revenge. You don’t need to read best served cold or any of the standalones technically but I think ignoring them is a bad choice. The Heroes isn’t nearly as outright violent but all of these books have violence of varying degrees with characters who who will Kate and love, so get used to that.
Are you guys going to talk about how great West arc is in this book? I hope so
First law is a series I really want to love. And I don't think they are bad books at all, I can't even say what it is that makes me not like them that much. It just doesn't click for me like other fantasy series do, even though I recognize that they are well written books.
Is it maybe the plot or world? Or the characters themselves?
@@2ToRamble If I had to put my finger on it I think I'd say it's the world that feels a bit bare and undeveloped for me. Which I can understand as the characters really are the main focus. Personally I think the world is the most important part of a fantasy series, so first law didn't click for me.
Thanks for the amazing videos by the way!
@@pumpkin2477 No worries! And I definitely agree, the world is more of a vehicle for the story, nothing special, but the character work and prose was great for me. Third book disappointed me but thats for another video lol
Darrow all the way!
Bloodydamn yes!
I liked them in this order 312, but all were 5 ⭐️
Read the series this spring and I’m definitely in the camp of I think the books get better in the First Law trilogy as they go on but I honestly scored all three of the books 4.25. I love the Collem West arc the most in this book and when he kills Ladisa was a legit yell out loud moment for me because F that dude so I’m glad that seems to be a popular moment in the series overall! Just finished Best Served Cold and moving into the Hero’s next and I’m excited to start the Age of Madness books here soon!
THE BLOODY NINE WOULD RIP DARROW APART
BOO
Not fair to Austin he hasn't read the next book yet. BLOODY 9 all day
Having read the third book now - DARROW BABY!
I enjoyed this book, but it was my least favourite of the first trilogy. I agree wiht Austin about Dogman POV
Bloody-Nine >
Bloody Nine
Darrow 😮💨
@@2ToRamble Bloody Nine
bloody nine clears Darrow
Never!!
If you loved Jezal's arc in this book just wait until book 3 .... I almost guarntee one of you will be shouting in the next video because of that 😂 (positively or negatively? ... Good question 😆)
The Bloodynine is the only one that can beat Darrow (in his prime) in a 1v1 fight ... and it is not even close. Never bet against the bloodynine 😏
Read book 3 - gonna record the episode next week!
Book 2 was my favorite out of the 3 but my totter isn’t teetered the same as everyone’s totter😂
😁😂
Hmmm, did they all fail? I'm pretty sure one character has been successful this whole time. Which becomes much more obvious in book 3.
Fair fair 👀
How about miserable? The ending angered me so much
Did you read book 3 as well and think similarly?
When is the name of the wind?
Very soon, next week or 2!
It really doesnt help that when you put on screen "Breaking News:" i missread Austin as "Autist likes action!" 😂 sry about that. Great episode. Love this series and cant wait for your next review.
I have to read the second trilogy before you guys get to it.
Oh god 😂
Idk if you guys got a new thumbnail guy or leveled up your design game but since around ep 149 the video thumbnails have been extra 🔥 🔥🔥
Yes, I believe Jakob from Talking Story helps with their thumbnails now
Have you two read Mark Lawrence?
They have a book that wouldn't burn review up
Yes! Read some of his books
Logen Ninefingers: If I'm the whore, who is the northman?
DARROW
YEA 🙏
OH BUT WHEN I SAID DURING THE MIKE LIVESTREAM THAT YOU CALLED IT A KNOCK OFF YOU DENIED IT
I thought someone said knockoff LOTR in livestream 😭 edit: also i try to keep opinions more muted until we actually review them on the pod, so that Rich and I dont end up having our whole discussion of the book before we hit record.
Chama 🔥🔥🔥
CHAMA
Jezal and Jamie? I mean I guess. Couple pretty boys. I didn’t dislike jezal near as much as you did. Jamie is borderline evil before his “redemption” arc. Jezals just a vain idiot. Pretty nasty scar but a little different then losing a hand lol. You read enough books especially predominantly from the same genre you can get lost in character/trope comparisons all day. Solid vid though! Keep rambling boys
Appreciate it - and yea didnt want to make that a huge sticking point, didnt affect my enjoyment too much
The fellowship trope in this book didn’t work at all for me
Which aspect didnt work for you?
@@2ToRamble The fact that nothing was accomplished
@@playermartin286 Thoughts on book 3? (if you've read?)
@@2ToRamble by far the best of the trilogy
Look at Austin an his cute lil ass. 😘😘😘
😂
*why do i feel threatened*
im triggered wdym 3,75!!!
😂😭
Hey Rich, you could just shave your hair and stop being in denial
Hey Lezzy, you could just admit you’re an idiot and stop being in denial.
its ajua
That helps so much...
Why do you keep saying 'could care less'? Makes no sense