Let's be honest here, the real reason is likely because Disney being control freaks with most of the IPs involved and keeping them as separate as possible or doing as little changing as possible with some worlds because whoever was behind them got salty Sora even exists in that world.
This is part of it. But I also think Square Enix just wants to have a smaller party of characters. I kind of like it just being Sora, Donald, and Goofy traveling around. It keeps the focus on them and their bond. I felt the same about FF15 and it just being the four. The bond between them felt stronger than when you have a larger party to me. I like RPGs with bigger parties too for different reasons. Both are good, but I think doing Kingdom Hearts this way was a good call.
The main issue in real life is that Disney is fairly strict about who’s allowed to appear in what world. This is the reason summons in KH3 are weird elemental teamups, Disney told Nomura to stop having fun
I wonder if Nathin also thinks that it was Nomura's idea to grind the pacing of KH3 to a screeching halt so that we can have a shot for shot remake of Let It Go complete with a watermark, followed by a shot of Sora gawking at it and informing the player that they should, indeed, be amazed.
@@HunterStiles651lol played through that part yesterday, was kinda strange but didn't bothered me all that much tbh. Honestly the frozen world was overall pretty good even, from a level design standpoint. But i was told it's the worst thing in KH history pretty much, so maybe my expectations were low.
@@brotbrotsen1100when I played that world I thought it felt kinda empty. I really enjoyed the Kingdom of Corona world and I believe it’s one of the best worlds in KH3. Disney should have given us two party members in Arendale that would have made it more fun. Instead we got Marshmello?? Kristoff and Sven would have been perfect.
Aculy Nomura has full control over KH. Disney aparently fells like it doesnt own the IP. He also had explained that Jinny and Tinkerbell became Summon Stones and that Beasts Strong will allwd him to use a corridor of Darkness. Basicly ther ar loopholes writen in the lore by Nomura. He also Set up that The Order thing will be a Bagger thing moving forward.however it might be true that during kh 1 Devolepment Disney was a bit Stricter. Kh 3 also mirrors kh 1. Thats ohne reason the Summons ar something you find or earn.
@@SkyLightKey That's not true at all. Disney DOES have a lot of a say in what the final product of a Kingdom Hearts game turns out to be. Nomura said so himself in an interview about KH3. He said that "Each Disney World came with its own set of restrictions, and Arendelle came with the most".
I could actually see this becoming a plot point eventually. Think about it: In real life, travel between countries isn't completely unrestricted, but it still happens. We have passports and customs, etc. It's not perfect, but it's better than everyone being stuck within their own countries. Why shouldn't that be the case with Kingdom Hearts worlds too? Kingdom Hearts is literally a cross-over between a Japanese video game series and an American film studio. It's the product of two different cultures colliding to make something new. While the relationship between both countries in the past hasn't always been pretty, KH shows that we were able to move past that and come together to create something beautiful. With that in mind, it's plausible someone in KH might point out how dumb "world order" is, and that they should be helping bring worlds together rather than keep them apart. It's a series about friendships, after all, so it would be fairly fitting. Edit: I’m seeing a lot of people in this comment section saying that the World Order rule is because Disney doesn’t allow their characters to crossover with each other. While that may in part be true, it’s not as if Disney characters haven’t interacted before. Nomura has proven in the past that if it’s important enough, he can get Disney to budge by putting his foot down. I think it really comes down to how badly the KH writers want to take the story in this direction. It wouldn’t immediately have to become House of Mouse for them to have some interactions, either. I for one, really want to see Jack Sparrow meet Captain Hook.
I agree with you 100%. Funny enough in kh2 Scrooge is said to be building a transit system between worlds and king Mickey knew about it. Guess Scrooge doesn’t care about “world order” either.
@@NathinOut in all fairness to Scrooge, he is basically the Donald Trump of the KH multiverse so he'll do w.e it takes to make money, EVEN if it means he crosses literal walls that his country made 💀
I've also noticed more and more as the games go, the 'world order' rules are being ignored. I don't think they're even brought up in 3, and you get Uncle Scrooge teaming up with Remy the Rat for a restaurant in a world neither of them are from.
I legit would love to see a "No World Order" mod for these games, particularly KH2 with its bigger action focus. Imagine how cool it would be to use the Disney characters' limits in worlds other than their homeworlds. Fly with Mulan through the streets of Agrabah, dance with Jack Skellington in the ballroom of Beast's Castle, slice up the battlefield with Auron to defeat the heartless armies in the Land of Dragons, and so on
Come to think of it, Jack Skellington canonically goes to a different world in his movie and in KHII and when it comes to joining Sora's party, he would have a clear motivation of finding inspiration to make an even better Halloween than before.
My head canon is that some characters find out about other worlds and only after that they learn about the world order which is why the ones who don’t know about it are kept in the dark. I would’ve liked if BBS actually showed the Disney characters learning about the world order from Aqua, Ventus, and Terra.
The "world order" rule is total bogus. Why can Scrooge and the DuckTales kids travel to Radiant Garden and Twilight Town, but Buzz and Woody can't board the Gummi Ship?
Because Scrooge and the nephews are Donald and Mickey Mouse adjacent characters. They will let them go into any kind of world because they put them in different roles all the time. In one short Mickey and co are regular modern day group of friends. In another movie they are musketeers. In another short they are retelling Jack and the beanstalk.
Not to mention that some worlds have the characters change outfits. How dope would it be to see characters other than the main trio have a Halloween/Christmas outfit?
This video focused on Disney character but it aplies to Final Fantasy characters too. Nomura's statement on why FF characters weren't in KH3 before re:mind got backlash for a reason.
Everything you said in this video was spot on. And it's crazy to see other KH youtubers praise KH1 for "maintaining the world order" and shitting on KH2 for "not maintaining the world order" when KH1 did not fucking do it. And it would be better to see alternative dialouge from other disney characters when they step into a different world. Allow THOSE characters to capture the magic of discovery that Sora is granted to do on a regular basis. I don't care if it makes KH4 longer to make, i'd rather see the best KH4 possible instead of a bunch of mediocre in-between games and then an underwhelming KH4
As someone who's playing the Kingdom Hearts series for the first time, I noticed the inconsistencies with the "no meddling" rule from the first game. It's everything you've said in this video. A flimsy excuse that isn't even stuck to all that often. Plus, now that I'm in KH 2, it seems like they've forgotten that the rule even existed at all. Why make a rule if you're not going to support or even remember it come later games?
Yeah. I've been wanting the series to go House Of Mouse for a while. Remember that show? Where different Disney characters came together and interacted with each other? I wish the series would just do that already. Like Hercules working with Mr. Incredible as teachers at a hero school and getting competitive about who's stronger. Or Beast and Sully discussing what conditioners work best with their fur. And maybe have a Chrono Trigger style tech system where you can recruit different party members that have different tag team moves together. The possibilities are endless.
I think it's like the Prime Directive from Star Trek. The more you "meddle in the affairs" of a world, the more reaponsibility you end up having to it, which means that you'd have to spend even more time than necessary basically managing affairs of other worlds. It's about liability if anything.
5:58 Triton gives you an Ansem Report which are the same Reports Malificent used to enact her plan with the other Villians. Which is why every other Disney villain gives a Report except Ursula. It's Triton instead. That's why it's never brought up again it's vaguely implied.
so that explains why you get a ansem report everytime you defeat a disney villain boss. I wondered this for years i feel like a dumbass for not realizing that
It’s really just Disney is protective with its IPs. They will allow Mickey , Donald, and Goofy as well as characters related to them travel other worlds because they treat them as characters that can be like actors playing a new role. They were a bit more lax with it back in the day but they have gotten more strict as time goes on.
I agree that this is probably the reason. The thing that's always annoyed me is Riku not joining you in KH2. My guess is they just didn't want to make costumes and other forms for him.
um. Riku in the story doesn't want to be found. Remember? He currently looks like Ansem SoD because he used the darkness to defeat Roxas. That's why he is only a party member after he us returned to his original state
@@aceproductions43 I'm talking about after he changes back. I wish he became a permanent party member who wasn't only available in the final world. He's been traveling to multiple worlds since the first game, but won't travel with you when he changes back to himself. I guess you could argue he needs to stay behind in order to protect Kairi. I just would have liked him to be able to travel with you in the post game content or in whatever worlds you hadn't completed yet.
I really enjoy that aspect. It makes Sora and the boys feel important and unique. If anything, the biggest change i wanted was not having to switch out party members and KH3 gavecme that.
I think the first game is the only one where the world order thing is a problem. Disney princesses are being captured, villains are traveling from world to world, and entire worlds are being destroyed. The lack of consistency is frustrating. With every other game, there's nothing that really implies that the world hopping thing is suspicious to anyone but SDG.
5:39 Maybe it'll be explained in Missing Link, considering Atlantica wasn't in any of the prequels. Some people say he knows of the legend that Kairi's grandmother recites but I'm not too sure because that story didn't even mention keys, only lights. The legend even makes it clear that Nomura had always planned for there to have been more than one keyblade wielder in the past and the keyblade war: "Everyone loved the light. Then people began to fight over it. They wanted to keep it for themselves. And darkness was born in their hearts The darkness spread, swallowing the light and many people's hearts. It covered everything, and the world disappeared. But small fragments of light survived" but Triton says "the key bearer" and not "one of the key bearers" .
I understand the frustration, but personally I don’t need or want Kingdom Hearts to become House of Mouse. The Disney characters, for the most part, are effective because of how their *individual stories* are impacted by the foreign element that is the KH characters. I think when you start having characters of separate worlds meet just for the sake of the crossover, you blur the focus of the characters who are original to the franchise, and then the whole narrative spine of the series is weakened. There’s enough material crossing over Disney properties with each other that I don’t need that to be the selling point of KH. Just having them coexist within the same piece of media, encountered by the same player characters, is enough for me. It keeps everyone feeling true to their movie counterparts, and makes the rare exceptions to the rule truly noteworthy.
Definitely a great take. I think maybe the best of both worlds would be what I mentioned with a new game plus option where there is no story basis but purely for the fun of it in gameplay.
I find this specially funny if you think about animated series of Disney that have done cross overs, not including the house of mouse show. The most damning example: Aladdin and Hercules know each other. In both series there's a cross over between both of them, the only problem would be that Herc is still in his younger years, Birth By Sleep time, while Aladdin has already dealt with Jafar for a second time and it's friends with Jaggo. That doesn't mean this couldn't work, if anything this could change their dynamic of they ever meet contrary to how they interact in the series. And I would really like to see it.
While I love making fun of the world order, I do think it makes functional sense from a story and gameplay perspective. First off, the games make very clear that travel between worlds is usually impossible except for those with Keyblades. The paths were closed prior to KH1 and only characters from Land of Departure or Disney Castle are seen to be traveling, like with the aid of a Keyblade user like Mickey or Yen Sid. And indeed, after we defeat Ansem and Xemnas in KH3, we see these paths are closed and Sora opens new ones with his Keyblade. The natural state is a split world. If Sora takes people with him, he runs the risk of them being stranded. Second, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Sora's meddling isn't true meddling. Why? Well, destiny frankly. The games are clear destiny in some form exists and the future is known. We see copies of Disney worlds in Union X and without Sora the stories still play out the same. Sora "helps" but his meddling didn't have a fundamental impact on the story. Destiny still happened. And in other cases, we know Sora was meant to come there. Pixar considers Kingdom Hearts 3 canon to the movies involved. These things happen and were destined to happen. Why do I bring up destiny? Well, I think it's plausible that the world order thing stems from the Master of Masters orders. He saw into the future and left orders that would eventually lead to the defeat of darkness. It's feasible this world order thing, lore wise, stems from this desire to make sure that the Master's orders are followed and the future plays out as intended. Finally, we've seen what happens when worlds connect. That's what Union X was, a time when the world was one and people knew of each other. That led to darkness and the great catastrophe that split the worlds. Indeed, it was only children's light that restored the worlds. The surviving Keyblade Masters would likely see this and decide that the worlds must not know of each other as it breed darkness through greed and jealousy. Only key bearers sworn and trained to protect the worlds know and they live in the remnants of the original world at Scala ad Caelum. Finally, gameplay wise, it makes sense. Each Disney world already introduces a half dozen characters. Having to work a half dozen other characters into those cutscenes would be a lot. Frozen didn't even have enough time to make Hans a character. What would have been cut to let Hercules show off? And then you have the issues of what happens when world order can be swapped. You need to make Tangled cutscenes for when you did Toy Box first and when you haven't done that yet. And then you have to do the same for Toy Box. And you have to animate and voice all those scenes. It just spirals out fast. It's more reasonable to lock them into their home worlds and be able to focus on the current world and not what Mulan would do in Atlantica.
Yeah we also have that scene in 2 where Jack Sparrow is clearly eavesdropping on Sora’s conversation about not being from that world. Like it really is a case of “these are more like guidelines” because he 100% at that point knows Sora’s from a different world. Hell Sora later on in the second visit, TELLS Jack, Will and Elizabeth about other worlds and the organization sending heartless to them. It’s a very inconsistent rule, and most likely done because Disney have strict rules about how Disney characters can interact. Hell look at Disneyland mascots, apparently there are mandates on where those characters can appear and who they can interact with
And why do only SOME worlds get to know that there are other worlds?! I get it to keep continuity, but it can't even be background knowledge?? Is no one going to question why a kid who somehow knows everything about the Heartless suddenly shows up? Or questions where he came from? It makes no sense lol
Heres the easy answer. It voids nomura having to write many character interactions in future games because that was already complicated enough for him when dealing with the original KH Characters in 3. Thats why they slightly break the world order rule with summons in the game. Now it WOULD be cool to see your summons interact in the worlds you visit at least
2:50 Man, looking back it is so weird hearing Genie being voiced by Homer Simpson. I mean it sort of works but he's trying to imitate Robin Williams and failing. This is exactly why Will Smith's Genie was his own thing and he and the handmaiden he wound up hooking up with were the only two particularly good things about the live-action version.
I love the idea of a NG+ mode with all party members swappable, with some notable exceptions applying, such as solo-missions. Going with that, I think being able to choose what 'costume' the crew are in would work for an NG+ option. Running around Pirates as Halloween Sora, or dashing around Hollow Bastion as Lion Sora would be hilariously fun. Game breaking, sure, but it's NG+ mode. Break the game as much as you like at that point!
It seems like in game there are a few ways characters can do this: Be really strong of heart, use the power of darkness and/or heartless, or have no home world to go to.
4:30 Uh, what? Beast's Castle fell to darkness when Belle was captured as seen during the events of BBS and Days. It was restored when Sora defeated Heartless Terra-Xehanort aka "Ansem" Seeker of Darknes. If the summons are a valid exception to "world order" so is he.
I think King Mickey being such a big deal has to do with his world housing the Cornerstone of Light. They made a really big deal out of it for an act in KH2 saying something along the lines of if it's destroyed or corrupted, darkness and/or heartless could take over the entire multiverse. But then they just conveniently forgot about this plot device, lol. This should be a bigger deal. More villains should be after this thing. I want the Disney Castle world expanded on and see a full on assault of thousands of heartless attacking, Chip n Dale and Queen Minnie busting out all of their gadgets and magic to help defend it. Come on Square!
There was a huge wave of heartless attacking Disney Castile (and we even got to have Minnie as a support character) but it was in the Badlands (which turned out to be the Keyblade Graveyard) where the 1000 heartless attacked. Not sure why Radiant Garden was so much more important frankly. Several worlds were fine with Maleficent and T-X's heartless running Hollow Bastion, before the Heartless invaded them anyway. Not to mention the Keyblade Graveyard itself was more vital to MX's plans than Radiant Garden and that world as a whole had nothing to do with Xenmas' endgame, he just wanted Sora to release the hearts.
Another thing about the world order that doesn't make sense, why does Donald, Goofy and Jiminy get to appear in the usual costumes when going to other worlds but half-ass their disguises in worlds like Atlantica and the Pridelands? It would also be nice to see Hercules, Phil and Genie to meet up again with Roxas, Ventus, and Xion. I'd like to see some closure between Ventus and Herc. Would Herc even remember Ven as that kid that helped him "become a hero"?
There actually is a benefit to the World Order rule. It's the reason we have the costumes for the halfpint trio in many worlds, as confirmed by Donald in Kingdom Hearts III, both in Toy Box and Arendelle (when Sora asks for a coat LMAO). Weirdly enough this is the one part of the World Order rule Pete and Maleficent actually choose not to break, because we see Pete as a lion in Pride Lands, though in their case they're probably using it for the sake of deception. Pete breaks this rule in Timeless River, but he's separated from Maleficent, the magic user of the team, by that point. But then that also literally means Donald's magic can be used to disguise characters like Aladdin, so the part of the rule forbidding characters from world hopping even if they have a good reason falls apart at the seams even more with this knowledge.
I assume Donald and Goofy feel they should be choosy about who they bring along because they don't know who they can really trust. They don't know Aladdin that well, so it would be weird to put that much trust in him that quickly. Sora was different because he was the keyblade wielder and they had explicit orders from the King to accompany him. That makes Tinkerbell and Genie weird I guess, but that is just for the sake of getting those summons for gameplay purposes and doesn't have any impact on the story. They are never actually referenced again in the story. But adding a whole extra party member is going to make a bigger impact.
@Funami2006 But they aren't Tinkerbell or Genie. They were summon crystals. They weren't traveling around with them. They were summoned for a battle and then that's it. Tinkerbell and Genie implied they would be traveling with them, yet we never see them again in story. That's my point.
Setting aside the legal restrictions that Disney has repeatedly enforced upon the franchise and what Square is and isn't allowed to do with their IPs, and any other out of universe programming concerns, there are some fairly good reason in-universe to avoid moving people around from worlds needlessly. It comes from the mobile games and I admittedly question how much sense it makes given the mobile games seem to suggest these stories function on time loops with the same events repeating centuries later, somehow, but there's a concept introduced in Dark Road in particular where the worlds all operate on different passages of time. Now, this may have been a mild mistranslation and may have actually been meant to explain why, say, Agrabah is stuck with 7th century AD tech while Space Paranoids rocks 80s computers and San Fransokyo has mobiles and high speed rail, but I like to think that it helps explain why, exactly, that it can be dangerous to take people away from their worlds, in that they risk being gone for far longer periods. Imagine leaving your world, going on a ten day adventure with Sora and co, and coming back to find that a year has passed at home, or five, or ten. Does this logic *really* hold up from what we see in the series? Not really, but then, since when does anything stay consistent in this series? There's so many ways it constantly contradicts itself, retcons, and otherwise changes things around that it's constantly evolving and changing direction at a seeming whim. Introducing something like this could at least help justify a little bit of these issues -- Tinker Bell and Genie, being ageless immortal type beings, could easily leave their respective worlds and not have nearly as much of an issue as Aladdin might, or even Peter Pan (who'd risk growing up if he left Neverland for too long, a la "Hook.") I still would like to see more characters getting to see other worlds and crossing over more than we get, but I know that's pretty unlikely. The closest we might get is characters all being together in a single world because they were gathered there, a la the Princesses of Heart from the first game.
Not time loops, the Disney worlds in Ux, excluding game central station, are projections of their potential futures, i.e. events that may play out differently than what is shown
This was a really good video to listen too! A lot of really funny and logical points about "The World Order" in Kingdom Hearts 1, it would be totally sick to see other characters interacting with each other. 👍
7:35 I'm not entirely convinced, this is a series directly spun off of Final Fantasy, a franchise Square seems to almost always put more money into than necessary (Contrast the recent Dragon Quest spinoffs made by Tose to Crisis Core Reunion, also made by Tose) (and yes, All the Bravest is an odd one out because even the cashgrab mobile games usually have a bigger budget than that one did). Not to mention they already cheaped out on several of the voice actors in the first place. Like how Robin Williams was still alive when KH1 was being made yet they got Disney's budget replacement for Genie, Dan Castellaneta (who voiced Genie in the animated series, second movie and basically anything else that wasn't the movies) instead.
I'm guessing the reason you can't take party members away from their own world is an absolute mandate from Disney, same reason we got the version of Arendelle in KH3 that we did instead of the original idea, Disney won't allow Square to take too many creative liberties with THEIR property. Not that it really bothers me one way or another, AI party members are all awful in these games anyway, their only real contributions are passive skills that affect the party and abilities that you can manually activate.
It sucks that party members can be useless combat wise on their own. In KH1 though I thought they did a good job damage wise. Donald and Goofy could actually kill stuff without me and the beast in hollow bastion hard carried while I healed him. After 1 though they did no damage sadly. I think it would be cool if they pulled an FF7 remake and let you switch during combat who you want to play as.
Essentially Mickey is the King of Disney World and Disney Land, and all those worlds fall under his control. He decides who gets to go where legally. Donald and Goofy don't have the authority to say who can and cannot travel throughout the kingdom. Because of Jimini's case, I'm sure Mickey could be convinced to let others, like Aladin, travel with Sora.
The New Game+ idea could probably work, I imagine it wouldn't be as impactful to not use the world character in their own boss battle but on subsequent playthroughs it'd just be for fun and as you said no extra voice acting needed. After hearing the interviews about the Frozen world in KH3 I wouldn't be surprised if this was more of a Disney issue than Square issue, KH isn't a party/racing game, you're either redoing or expanding on the original movies so perhaps Disney has some guidelines on much they can stray from the source material. Hopefully they eventually lighten up enough that we can get an Avenger's Assemble moment with all the Disney characters or something to that effect.
So apparently, in early drafts of the story, Sora would've gathered the Disney princes and stormed Hollow Bastion to rescue the princesses. I'm guessing due to hardware limitations, this was scrapped.
I’ve never heard about this. If this was a real idea I wish they had done it. I wanted something like this in kh3 but we sadly didn’t get it. I thought it would have been cool to have an “endgame” moment when Yen Sid arrives and brings all the past Disney party members to help you in the last few battles.
If their were some more so in canon explanation of somehow certain characters can't leave their worlds I'd be more accepting of it... But their isn't. Edit: okay... So thiers was... But nah.. world order is absolutely freaking lame.
think later on a plot point will be about reconnecting the worlds making it earth again(since it's basically if like in sonic unleashed when dr. eggman broke the planet into pieces they broke apart even further going out into space with the countries/states becoming planets) as i do agree the worlds need to start crossing over again especially after once upon a studio and talking with the animators for it about all the characters cut for it/the shelved disney crossovers we almost got. really wish kh 3 had done that for it's finale having sora use his power of waking(which should've been awakened by him regrowing his heart with the bonds in the new worlds/kairi join with the trio to build hers & have a different playable character.) to bring the disney & final fantasy characters to the keyblade graveyard to fight the millions of heartless,nobodies/organization,unversed & xehanort's guard with them as i loved when leon's group/tifa helped you out before the 1,000 heartless battle adding to it that felt missing in 3 with how the disney characters defended their homes.
I see the World Order Rule in KH like the Prime Directive from Start Trek. If the people of a particular world would, overall, freak the fuck out if they found out they weren't alone in the universe, then it's best to keep all that under wraps. They got away with breaking it a fair bit in KH1 because 1: it was the first game, they hadn't really put too much thought to it yet, and 2: Maleficent and Ansem were a DIRECT threat to the universe, rather than Xemnas and Xehanort just kinda fucking with individuals, rather than the collective.
Kingdom hearts 2 but but only the best party members and I mean Jack Skeleton and Aladdin I think having changeable party members has interesting story possibility but but honestly your teammates never really helped much in the first place. I mean Duck Flare is overpowered but generally Donald Goofy and the rest of your party members might as well be standing idle for as much help as they really do
Story Wise: I could see why the World Order is important, the fact Monsters Inc has their own set of rules and same as Toy Story for sentient toys but KH as a series is big mess of trying to keep things together and comprehend it. Gameplay Wise: I seriously would love that for Disney party members came along with SDG, an interesting concept. But yeah definitely could see your POV on why this is bothersome
Consider a clash of themes. While it makes sense for other heroes to travel with Sora it would be hard to have many party members to choose from since having all of them would trivialize the battles. And some characters wouldn't mesh well with the the worlds they'd enter. How could you justify Jack Skelington is a place like Atlantica when he is nothing but bones or Tron in the Caribbean where there is zero technology there? It would clash too much.
At this point, I say the "world order" rule is unnecessary. As for the way the crossovers are handled, really, I think more could be done with the idea. Whether people agree with me or not, it technically IS a selling point, and partially why people were getting into the series to begin with. And before someone spouts at me about paradoxes happening, none of this stuff is canon anyway (at least, to the movies the different worlds are based on anyway). I'm not saying to have it be like a Justice League or Avengers kind of thing, as cool as that would be. Though it's not really the worst idea either, Smash Bros was able to do that just fine, and yes, it counts since Sora's in it now too. If a big selling point of the series is the crossovers, take more chances, stop playing it safe.
I think this is due to the hardware limitations of the PS2. Unlike a traditional turn-based RPG, your party is running around and fighting in KH, they aren't static models with limited animations. That's a lot of extra data onscreen. We only got extra party members on the PS4. This is a case of limitations dictating the lore.
I think within the aspect of kingdom hearts 1, you forgot one tiny little detail that completely counters your argument. If Alladin leaves the world then who's going to protect the keyhole from Heartless? As you know, they keep spawning even after you complete the world so someone has to stay and keep watch. Also the world order argument is flawed as while it is true that the villains are meddling, bringing along more people into the mix could make things complicated in the future as well. Even if it does help solve the problem, it could create new ones down the line as well. You are going to the worlds to restore order and not to cause even more confusion.
I don't get why the World Order is so inconsistent. Like it limits creativity, that's bad, but worse is that in KH1 and 3 it's taken super seriously, while in 2 Donald and Goofy themselves just flat out explain that there's multiple worlds to people
If the reason was protecting the keyhole they should've just said that, but they didn't. And while I get what you're saying about not causing future problems, that doesn't really work if your goal is to maintain peace long-term. What's more likely to lead to conflict? Explaining the situation to those affected and working with people who are already involved in the crisis, or keeping everybody ignorant and preventing peaceful contact between those of different worlds?
Can't say I agree with you. Concerning Aladdin guarding the keyhole, they would have told him to guard it. Instead they didn't because it doesn't need to be under guard after sealing it. Allegedly, after sealing a keyhole to the heart of a world the heartless don't have a way to get into the heart of the world. Even in KH2 you don't reseal Agrabah's keyhole, your opening up gateways instead. Secondly if I did agree with what your saying then Genie shouldn't be allowed to go either, your still breaking "world order" by bringing him along. Not to mention if Aladdin did need to guard the keyhole (he doesn't need to) then taking Genie away only hurts Aladdin since the very first time we meet Aladdin he couldn't defeat the heartless on his own and needed Genie to save him. As for the rest it's pretty vague what your saying so I'm unsure how to reply to those statements. I'm still glad you contributed to the discussion though even if we may not agree.
I know it's all because Disney is strict about who each character interacts with but... yeah, it doesn't hold-up in universe much, either. Even Twilight Town and Traverse Town, which are meant to be places where people who have lost their hearts go, is just filled with bland NPCs. Not, you know, actually Disney and Square Enix characters.
And we can’t forget that time Stitch got Sora, Donald, and Goofy stuck in a computer for no reason whatsoever. Hey, you can point out any break in Disney’s stupid “world order” rule, but let’s hope they’ll let a franchise get the visa for passing between worlds. Muppets, mayhaps?
Apparently in KH canon it’s against the rules to interfere with the ‘world order’ or in other words, lazy devs who can’t seem to program summoning extra characters to accompany Sora and friends on their journey. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Sora and the gang constantly break Disney canon with their actions. Where’s this ‘world order’ you keep blabbing about Donald? Hmmm? 🤨
It felt weird in KH3 that the World Order was brought up so much after KH2 practically ignored it. With certain worlds like Radiant Garden or Disney Castle/Town basically advancing to the point of having knowledge of other worlds, it feels like something that should be deconstructed and ignored. Seriously, shouldn't meeting, trading, learning, and otherwise interacting with people different from you be considered a good thing?
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Let's be honest here, the real reason is likely because Disney being control freaks with most of the IPs involved and keeping them as separate as possible or doing as little changing as possible with some worlds because whoever was behind them got salty Sora even exists in that world.
Is that still true though? They surely love to change every little bit of the stories in their remakes.
This is part of it. But I also think Square Enix just wants to have a smaller party of characters. I kind of like it just being Sora, Donald, and Goofy traveling around. It keeps the focus on them and their bond. I felt the same about FF15 and it just being the four. The bond between them felt stronger than when you have a larger party to me. I like RPGs with bigger parties too for different reasons. Both are good, but I think doing Kingdom Hearts this way was a good call.
That is the Doylist reason.
@@brotbrotsen1100 yeah but that's _disney_ changing things, they can't let other people actually change "their" characters
The main issue in real life is that Disney is fairly strict about who’s allowed to appear in what world. This is the reason summons in KH3 are weird elemental teamups, Disney told Nomura to stop having fun
I wonder if Nathin also thinks that it was Nomura's idea to grind the pacing of KH3 to a screeching halt so that we can have a shot for shot remake of Let It Go complete with a watermark, followed by a shot of Sora gawking at it and informing the player that they should, indeed, be amazed.
@@HunterStiles651lol played through that part yesterday, was kinda strange but didn't bothered me all that much tbh. Honestly the frozen world was overall pretty good even, from a level design standpoint. But i was told it's the worst thing in KH history pretty much, so maybe my expectations were low.
@@brotbrotsen1100when I played that world I thought it felt kinda empty. I really enjoyed the Kingdom of Corona world and I believe it’s one of the best worlds in KH3. Disney should have given us two party members in Arendale that would have made it more fun. Instead we got Marshmello?? Kristoff and Sven would have been perfect.
Aculy Nomura has full control over KH. Disney aparently fells like it doesnt own the IP.
He also had explained that Jinny and Tinkerbell became Summon Stones and that Beasts Strong will allwd him to use a corridor of Darkness. Basicly ther ar loopholes writen in the lore by Nomura. He also Set up that The Order thing will be a Bagger thing moving forward.however it might be true that during kh 1 Devolepment Disney was a bit Stricter.
Kh 3 also mirrors kh 1. Thats ohne reason the Summons ar something you find or earn.
@@SkyLightKey That's not true at all. Disney DOES have a lot of a say in what the final product of a Kingdom Hearts game turns out to be. Nomura said so himself in an interview about KH3. He said that "Each Disney World came with its own set of restrictions, and Arendelle came with the most".
I could actually see this becoming a plot point eventually. Think about it: In real life, travel between countries isn't completely unrestricted, but it still happens. We have passports and customs, etc. It's not perfect, but it's better than everyone being stuck within their own countries. Why shouldn't that be the case with Kingdom Hearts worlds too?
Kingdom Hearts is literally a cross-over between a Japanese video game series and an American film studio. It's the product of two different cultures colliding to make something new. While the relationship between both countries in the past hasn't always been pretty, KH shows that we were able to move past that and come together to create something beautiful.
With that in mind, it's plausible someone in KH might point out how dumb "world order" is, and that they should be helping bring worlds together rather than keep them apart. It's a series about friendships, after all, so it would be fairly fitting.
Edit: I’m seeing a lot of people in this comment section saying that the World Order rule is because Disney doesn’t allow their characters to crossover with each other. While that may in part be true, it’s not as if Disney characters haven’t interacted before. Nomura has proven in the past that if it’s important enough, he can get Disney to budge by putting his foot down. I think it really comes down to how badly the KH writers want to take the story in this direction. It wouldn’t immediately have to become House of Mouse for them to have some interactions, either. I
for one, really want to see Jack Sparrow meet Captain Hook.
I agree with you 100%. Funny enough in kh2 Scrooge is said to be building a transit system between worlds and king Mickey knew about it. Guess Scrooge doesn’t care about “world order” either.
@@NathinOut in all fairness to Scrooge, he is basically the Donald Trump of the KH multiverse so he'll do w.e it takes to make money, EVEN if it means he crosses literal walls that his country made 💀
I've also noticed more and more as the games go, the 'world order' rules are being ignored. I don't think they're even brought up in 3, and you get Uncle Scrooge teaming up with Remy the Rat for a restaurant in a world neither of them are from.
I legit would love to see a "No World Order" mod for these games, particularly KH2 with its bigger action focus. Imagine how cool it would be to use the Disney characters' limits in worlds other than their homeworlds. Fly with Mulan through the streets of Agrabah, dance with Jack Skellington in the ballroom of Beast's Castle, slice up the battlefield with Auron to defeat the heartless armies in the Land of Dragons, and so on
Come to think of it, Jack Skellington canonically goes to a different world in his movie and in KHII and when it comes to joining Sora's party, he would have a clear motivation of finding inspiration to make an even better Halloween than before.
My head canon is that some characters find out about other worlds and only after that they learn about the world order which is why the ones who don’t know about it are kept in the dark. I would’ve liked if BBS actually showed the Disney characters learning about the world order from Aqua, Ventus, and Terra.
The "world order" rule is total bogus. Why can Scrooge and the DuckTales kids travel to Radiant Garden and Twilight Town, but Buzz and Woody can't board the Gummi Ship?
Because Scrooge and the nephews are Donald and Mickey Mouse adjacent characters. They will let them go into any kind of world because they put them in different roles all the time.
In one short Mickey and co are regular modern day group of friends.
In another movie they are musketeers.
In another short they are retelling Jack and the beanstalk.
Cause their toys and only move around other toys and even if they broke that rule their too small.😅
Not to mention that some worlds have the characters change outfits. How dope would it be to see characters other than the main trio have a Halloween/Christmas outfit?
Imagine if Beast came with you to Halloween Town and didn't get a costume change because well...
This video focused on Disney character but it aplies to Final Fantasy characters too. Nomura's statement on why FF characters weren't in KH3 before re:mind got backlash for a reason.
To be fair when it comes to beast his world was also destroyed so it's not like he had anywhere to go either
Everything you said in this video was spot on.
And it's crazy to see other KH youtubers praise KH1 for "maintaining the world order" and shitting on KH2 for "not maintaining the world order" when KH1 did not fucking do it.
And it would be better to see alternative dialouge from other disney characters when they step into a different world. Allow THOSE characters to capture the magic of discovery that Sora is granted to do on a regular basis. I don't care if it makes KH4 longer to make, i'd rather see the best KH4 possible instead of a bunch of mediocre in-between games and then an underwhelming KH4
As someone who's playing the Kingdom Hearts series for the first time, I noticed the inconsistencies with the "no meddling" rule from the first game. It's everything you've said in this video. A flimsy excuse that isn't even stuck to all that often. Plus, now that I'm in KH 2, it seems like they've forgotten that the rule even existed at all. Why make a rule if you're not going to support or even remember it come later games?
Yeah. I've been wanting the series to go House Of Mouse for a while. Remember that show? Where different Disney characters came together and interacted with each other? I wish the series would just do that already. Like Hercules working with Mr. Incredible as teachers at a hero school and getting competitive about who's stronger. Or Beast and Sully discussing what conditioners work best with their fur. And maybe have a Chrono Trigger style tech system where you can recruit different party members that have different tag team moves together. The possibilities are endless.
I think it's like the Prime Directive from Star Trek. The more you "meddle in the affairs" of a world, the more reaponsibility you end up having to it, which means that you'd have to spend even more time than necessary basically managing affairs of other worlds.
It's about liability if anything.
5:58 Triton gives you an Ansem Report which are the same Reports Malificent used to enact her plan with the other Villians. Which is why every other Disney villain gives a Report except Ursula. It's Triton instead. That's why it's never brought up again it's vaguely implied.
so that explains why you get a ansem report everytime you defeat a disney villain boss. I wondered this for years i feel like a dumbass for not realizing that
It’s really just Disney is protective with its IPs. They will allow Mickey , Donald, and Goofy as well as characters related to them travel other worlds because they treat them as characters that can be like actors playing a new role.
They were a bit more lax with it back in the day but they have gotten more strict as time goes on.
I agree that this is probably the reason. The thing that's always annoyed me is Riku not joining you in KH2. My guess is they just didn't want to make costumes and other forms for him.
um. Riku in the story doesn't want to be found. Remember? He currently looks like Ansem SoD because he used the darkness to defeat Roxas. That's why he is only a party member after he us returned to his original state
@@aceproductions43 I'm talking about after he changes back. I wish he became a permanent party member who wasn't only available in the final world. He's been traveling to multiple worlds since the first game, but won't travel with you when he changes back to himself. I guess you could argue he needs to stay behind in order to protect Kairi. I just would have liked him to be able to travel with you in the post game content or in whatever worlds you hadn't completed yet.
I really enjoy that aspect. It makes Sora and the boys feel important and unique. If anything, the biggest change i wanted was not having to switch out party members and KH3 gavecme that.
I think the first game is the only one where the world order thing is a problem. Disney princesses are being captured, villains are traveling from world to world, and entire worlds are being destroyed. The lack of consistency is frustrating.
With every other game, there's nothing that really implies that the world hopping thing is suspicious to anyone but SDG.
5:39 Maybe it'll be explained in Missing Link, considering Atlantica wasn't in any of the prequels. Some people say he knows of the legend that Kairi's grandmother recites but I'm not too sure because that story didn't even mention keys, only lights. The legend even makes it clear that Nomura had always planned for there to have been more than one keyblade wielder in the past and the keyblade war: "Everyone loved the light. Then people began to fight over it. They wanted to keep it for themselves. And darkness was born in their hearts The darkness spread, swallowing the light and many people's hearts. It covered everything, and the world disappeared. But small fragments of light survived" but Triton says "the key bearer" and not "one of the key bearers" .
To be honest, Xehanort getting Dogpiled by Sora, Aladdin, and Jack Sparrow would be hilarious.
I understand the frustration, but personally I don’t need or want Kingdom Hearts to become House of Mouse.
The Disney characters, for the most part, are effective because of how their *individual stories* are impacted by the foreign element that is the KH characters. I think when you start having characters of separate worlds meet just for the sake of the crossover, you blur the focus of the characters who are original to the franchise, and then the whole narrative spine of the series is weakened.
There’s enough material crossing over Disney properties with each other that I don’t need that to be the selling point of KH. Just having them coexist within the same piece of media, encountered by the same player characters, is enough for me. It keeps everyone feeling true to their movie counterparts, and makes the rare exceptions to the rule truly noteworthy.
Definitely a great take. I think maybe the best of both worlds would be what I mentioned with a new game plus option where there is no story basis but purely for the fun of it in gameplay.
@@NathinOut that might be fun, yeah
I find this specially funny if you think about animated series of Disney that have done cross overs, not including the house of mouse show. The most damning example: Aladdin and Hercules know each other.
In both series there's a cross over between both of them, the only problem would be that Herc is still in his younger years, Birth By Sleep time, while Aladdin has already dealt with Jafar for a second time and it's friends with Jaggo.
That doesn't mean this couldn't work, if anything this could change their dynamic of they ever meet contrary to how they interact in the series. And I would really like to see it.
I always thought it was both weird and hilarious to see stuff like the Proud Family, Recess and Kim Possible crossover on the Lilo and Stitch show.
While I love making fun of the world order, I do think it makes functional sense from a story and gameplay perspective.
First off, the games make very clear that travel between worlds is usually impossible except for those with Keyblades. The paths were closed prior to KH1 and only characters from Land of Departure or Disney Castle are seen to be traveling, like with the aid of a Keyblade user like Mickey or Yen Sid. And indeed, after we defeat Ansem and Xemnas in KH3, we see these paths are closed and Sora opens new ones with his Keyblade. The natural state is a split world. If Sora takes people with him, he runs the risk of them being stranded.
Second, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Sora's meddling isn't true meddling. Why? Well, destiny frankly. The games are clear destiny in some form exists and the future is known. We see copies of Disney worlds in Union X and without Sora the stories still play out the same. Sora "helps" but his meddling didn't have a fundamental impact on the story. Destiny still happened. And in other cases, we know Sora was meant to come there. Pixar considers Kingdom Hearts 3 canon to the movies involved. These things happen and were destined to happen.
Why do I bring up destiny? Well, I think it's plausible that the world order thing stems from the Master of Masters orders. He saw into the future and left orders that would eventually lead to the defeat of darkness. It's feasible this world order thing, lore wise, stems from this desire to make sure that the Master's orders are followed and the future plays out as intended.
Finally, we've seen what happens when worlds connect. That's what Union X was, a time when the world was one and people knew of each other. That led to darkness and the great catastrophe that split the worlds. Indeed, it was only children's light that restored the worlds. The surviving Keyblade Masters would likely see this and decide that the worlds must not know of each other as it breed darkness through greed and jealousy. Only key bearers sworn and trained to protect the worlds know and they live in the remnants of the original world at Scala ad Caelum.
Finally, gameplay wise, it makes sense. Each Disney world already introduces a half dozen characters. Having to work a half dozen other characters into those cutscenes would be a lot. Frozen didn't even have enough time to make Hans a character. What would have been cut to let Hercules show off? And then you have the issues of what happens when world order can be swapped. You need to make Tangled cutscenes for when you did Toy Box first and when you haven't done that yet. And then you have to do the same for Toy Box. And you have to animate and voice all those scenes. It just spirals out fast. It's more reasonable to lock them into their home worlds and be able to focus on the current world and not what Mulan would do in Atlantica.
Yeah we also have that scene in 2 where Jack Sparrow is clearly eavesdropping on Sora’s conversation about not being from that world. Like it really is a case of “these are more like guidelines” because he 100% at that point knows Sora’s from a different world. Hell Sora later on in the second visit, TELLS Jack, Will and Elizabeth about other worlds and the organization sending heartless to them. It’s a very inconsistent rule, and most likely done because Disney have strict rules about how Disney characters can interact. Hell look at Disneyland mascots, apparently there are mandates on where those characters can appear and who they can interact with
tbh I gotta agree with you, one of these games needs to go "eh to heck with it" and have characters from different worlds meet
And why do only SOME worlds get to know that there are other worlds?! I get it to keep continuity, but it can't even be background knowledge?? Is no one going to question why a kid who somehow knows everything about the Heartless suddenly shows up? Or questions where he came from? It makes no sense lol
And who made this rule in universe to begin with? Weren't all the world's connected in the past? So the rule must be relatively new
Heres the easy answer. It voids nomura having to write many character interactions in future games because that was already complicated enough for him when dealing with the original KH Characters in 3. Thats why they slightly break the world order rule with summons in the game.
Now it WOULD be cool to see your summons interact in the worlds you visit at least
2:50 Man, looking back it is so weird hearing Genie being voiced by Homer Simpson. I mean it sort of works but he's trying to imitate Robin Williams and failing. This is exactly why Will Smith's Genie was his own thing and he and the handmaiden he wound up hooking up with were the only two particularly good things about the live-action version.
I love the idea of a NG+ mode with all party members swappable, with some notable exceptions applying, such as solo-missions. Going with that, I think being able to choose what 'costume' the crew are in would work for an NG+ option. Running around Pirates as Halloween Sora, or dashing around Hollow Bastion as Lion Sora would be hilariously fun. Game breaking, sure, but it's NG+ mode. Break the game as much as you like at that point!
Exactly, just let people go crazy with their imagination.
It seems like in game there are a few ways characters can do this: Be really strong of heart, use the power of darkness and/or heartless, or have no home world to go to.
4:30 Uh, what? Beast's Castle fell to darkness when Belle was captured as seen during the events of BBS and Days. It was restored when Sora defeated Heartless Terra-Xehanort aka "Ansem" Seeker of Darknes. If the summons are a valid exception to "world order" so is he.
That's why Nathin specified "Traverse Town", where refugees so, but yeah.
I think King Mickey being such a big deal has to do with his world housing the Cornerstone of Light. They made a really big deal out of it for an act in KH2 saying something along the lines of if it's destroyed or corrupted, darkness and/or heartless could take over the entire multiverse.
But then they just conveniently forgot about this plot device, lol. This should be a bigger deal. More villains should be after this thing. I want the Disney Castle world expanded on and see a full on assault of thousands of heartless attacking, Chip n Dale and Queen Minnie busting out all of their gadgets and magic to help defend it. Come on Square!
There was a huge wave of heartless attacking Disney Castile (and we even got to have Minnie as a support character) but it was in the Badlands (which turned out to be the Keyblade Graveyard) where the 1000 heartless attacked. Not sure why Radiant Garden was so much more important frankly. Several worlds were fine with Maleficent and T-X's heartless running Hollow Bastion, before the Heartless invaded them anyway. Not to mention the Keyblade Graveyard itself was more vital to MX's plans than Radiant Garden and that world as a whole had nothing to do with Xenmas' endgame, he just wanted Sora to release the hearts.
Only disney castle would fall if the cornerstone of light was stolen. Not entire universe.
I like that Dark Road brought the idea about disrupting the world order, I hope Kh4 will explore it further
Oh my god Goofy being in charge of the journal would make it 100x more entertaining
Another thing about the world order that doesn't make sense, why does Donald, Goofy and Jiminy get to appear in the usual costumes when going to other worlds but half-ass their disguises in worlds like Atlantica and the Pridelands?
It would also be nice to see Hercules, Phil and Genie to meet up again with Roxas, Ventus, and Xion. I'd like to see some closure between Ventus and Herc. Would Herc even remember Ven as that kid that helped him "become a hero"?
There actually is a benefit to the World Order rule. It's the reason we have the costumes for the halfpint trio in many worlds, as confirmed by Donald in Kingdom Hearts III, both in Toy Box and Arendelle (when Sora asks for a coat LMAO). Weirdly enough this is the one part of the World Order rule Pete and Maleficent actually choose not to break, because we see Pete as a lion in Pride Lands, though in their case they're probably using it for the sake of deception. Pete breaks this rule in Timeless River, but he's separated from Maleficent, the magic user of the team, by that point.
But then that also literally means Donald's magic can be used to disguise characters like Aladdin, so the part of the rule forbidding characters from world hopping even if they have a good reason falls apart at the seams even more with this knowledge.
I assume Donald and Goofy feel they should be choosy about who they bring along because they don't know who they can really trust. They don't know Aladdin that well, so it would be weird to put that much trust in him that quickly. Sora was different because he was the keyblade wielder and they had explicit orders from the King to accompany him.
That makes Tinkerbell and Genie weird I guess, but that is just for the sake of getting those summons for gameplay purposes and doesn't have any impact on the story. They are never actually referenced again in the story. But adding a whole extra party member is going to make a bigger impact.
@@darrenmacqueen9884And yet Mushu canonically meets SDG as a summon. They even reference the fact that they met before
@@Funami2006 What's your point? That has nothing to do with what I said.
@@darrenmacqueen9884 I was saying that the summons in KH1 are referenced in KH2. Both Simba and Mushu acknowledge it.
@Funami2006 But they aren't Tinkerbell or Genie. They were summon crystals. They weren't traveling around with them. They were summoned for a battle and then that's it. Tinkerbell and Genie implied they would be traveling with them, yet we never see them again in story. That's my point.
Setting aside the legal restrictions that Disney has repeatedly enforced upon the franchise and what Square is and isn't allowed to do with their IPs, and any other out of universe programming concerns, there are some fairly good reason in-universe to avoid moving people around from worlds needlessly. It comes from the mobile games and I admittedly question how much sense it makes given the mobile games seem to suggest these stories function on time loops with the same events repeating centuries later, somehow, but there's a concept introduced in Dark Road in particular where the worlds all operate on different passages of time.
Now, this may have been a mild mistranslation and may have actually been meant to explain why, say, Agrabah is stuck with 7th century AD tech while Space Paranoids rocks 80s computers and San Fransokyo has mobiles and high speed rail, but I like to think that it helps explain why, exactly, that it can be dangerous to take people away from their worlds, in that they risk being gone for far longer periods. Imagine leaving your world, going on a ten day adventure with Sora and co, and coming back to find that a year has passed at home, or five, or ten.
Does this logic *really* hold up from what we see in the series? Not really, but then, since when does anything stay consistent in this series? There's so many ways it constantly contradicts itself, retcons, and otherwise changes things around that it's constantly evolving and changing direction at a seeming whim. Introducing something like this could at least help justify a little bit of these issues -- Tinker Bell and Genie, being ageless immortal type beings, could easily leave their respective worlds and not have nearly as much of an issue as Aladdin might, or even Peter Pan (who'd risk growing up if he left Neverland for too long, a la "Hook.")
I still would like to see more characters getting to see other worlds and crossing over more than we get, but I know that's pretty unlikely. The closest we might get is characters all being together in a single world because they were gathered there, a la the Princesses of Heart from the first game.
Not time loops, the Disney worlds in Ux, excluding game central station, are projections of their potential futures, i.e. events that may play out differently than what is shown
This was a really good video to listen too! A lot of really funny and logical points about "The World Order" in Kingdom Hearts 1, it would be totally sick to see other characters interacting with each other. 👍
7:35 I'm not entirely convinced, this is a series directly spun off of Final Fantasy, a franchise Square seems to almost always put more money into than necessary (Contrast the recent Dragon Quest spinoffs made by Tose to Crisis Core Reunion, also made by Tose) (and yes, All the Bravest is an odd one out because even the cashgrab mobile games usually have a bigger budget than that one did). Not to mention they already cheaped out on several of the voice actors in the first place. Like how Robin Williams was still alive when KH1 was being made yet they got Disney's budget replacement for Genie, Dan Castellaneta (who voiced Genie in the animated series, second movie and basically anything else that wasn't the movies) instead.
I'm guessing the reason you can't take party members away from their own world is an absolute mandate from Disney, same reason we got the version of Arendelle in KH3 that we did instead of the original idea, Disney won't allow Square to take too many creative liberties with THEIR property. Not that it really bothers me one way or another, AI party members are all awful in these games anyway, their only real contributions are passive skills that affect the party and abilities that you can manually activate.
It sucks that party members can be useless combat wise on their own. In KH1 though I thought they did a good job damage wise. Donald and Goofy could actually kill stuff without me and the beast in hollow bastion hard carried while I healed him. After 1 though they did no damage sadly. I think it would be cool if they pulled an FF7 remake and let you switch during combat who you want to play as.
Essentially Mickey is the King of Disney World and Disney Land, and all those worlds fall under his control. He decides who gets to go where legally. Donald and Goofy don't have the authority to say who can and cannot travel throughout the kingdom. Because of Jimini's case, I'm sure Mickey could be convinced to let others, like Aladin, travel with Sora.
The New Game+ idea could probably work, I imagine it wouldn't be as impactful to not use the world character in their own boss battle but on subsequent playthroughs it'd just be for fun and as you said no extra voice acting needed. After hearing the interviews about the Frozen world in KH3 I wouldn't be surprised if this was more of a Disney issue than Square issue, KH isn't a party/racing game, you're either redoing or expanding on the original movies so perhaps Disney has some guidelines on much they can stray from the source material. Hopefully they eventually lighten up enough that we can get an Avenger's Assemble moment with all the Disney characters or something to that effect.
So apparently, in early drafts of the story, Sora would've gathered the Disney princes and stormed Hollow Bastion to rescue the princesses. I'm guessing due to hardware limitations, this was scrapped.
I’ve never heard about this. If this was a real idea I wish they had done it. I wanted something like this in kh3 but we sadly didn’t get it. I thought it would have been cool to have an “endgame” moment when Yen Sid arrives and brings all the past Disney party members to help you in the last few battles.
If their were some more so in canon explanation of somehow certain characters can't leave their worlds I'd be more accepting of it... But their isn't.
Edit: okay... So thiers was... But nah.. world order is absolutely freaking lame.
think later on a plot point will be about reconnecting the worlds making it earth again(since it's basically if like in sonic unleashed when dr. eggman broke the planet into pieces they broke apart even further going out into space with the countries/states becoming planets) as i do agree the worlds need to start crossing over again especially after once upon a studio and talking with the animators for it about all the characters cut for it/the shelved disney crossovers we almost got.
really wish kh 3 had done that for it's finale having sora use his power of waking(which should've been awakened by him regrowing his heart with the bonds in the new worlds/kairi join with the trio to build hers & have a different playable character.) to bring the disney & final fantasy characters to the keyblade graveyard to fight the millions of heartless,nobodies/organization,unversed & xehanort's guard with them as i loved when leon's group/tifa helped you out before the 1,000 heartless battle adding to it that felt missing in 3 with how the disney characters defended their homes.
You know Disney ain’t letting characters from movies go into other movies, it’s weird and removes story potential at times, but we CAN’T have it.
5:46 - 5:49
😂 LOL! Ursula has so many victims you’re probably right.
I see the World Order Rule in KH like the Prime Directive from Start Trek. If the people of a particular world would, overall, freak the fuck out if they found out they weren't alone in the universe, then it's best to keep all that under wraps. They got away with breaking it a fair bit in KH1 because 1: it was the first game, they hadn't really put too much thought to it yet, and 2: Maleficent and Ansem were a DIRECT threat to the universe, rather than Xemnas and Xehanort just kinda fucking with individuals, rather than the collective.
Xehanort was planning to purge every world. How does that not effect the collective?
Finally an actual plothole
Kingdom hearts 2 but but only the best party members and I mean Jack Skeleton and Aladdin
I think having changeable party members has interesting story possibility but but honestly your teammates never really helped much in the first place. I mean Duck Flare is overpowered but generally Donald Goofy and the rest of your party members might as well be standing idle for as much help as they really do
Story Wise: I could see why the World Order is important, the fact Monsters Inc has their own set of rules and same as Toy Story for sentient toys but KH as a series is big mess of trying to keep things together and comprehend it.
Gameplay Wise: I seriously would love that for Disney party members came along with SDG, an interesting concept. But yeah definitely could see your POV on why this is bothersome
Its called 'World Order' because it was under "orders" from Disney "World". Lol
Consider a clash of themes. While it makes sense for other heroes to travel with Sora it would be hard to have many party members to choose from since having all of them would trivialize the battles. And some characters wouldn't mesh well with the the worlds they'd enter. How could you justify Jack Skelington is a place like Atlantica when he is nothing but bones or Tron in the Caribbean where there is zero technology there? It would clash too much.
At this point, I say the "world order" rule is unnecessary. As for the way the crossovers are handled, really, I think more could be done with the idea. Whether people agree with me or not, it technically IS a selling point, and partially why people were getting into the series to begin with. And before someone spouts at me about paradoxes happening, none of this stuff is canon anyway (at least, to the movies the different worlds are based on anyway).
I'm not saying to have it be like a Justice League or Avengers kind of thing, as cool as that would be. Though it's not really the worst idea either, Smash Bros was able to do that just fine, and yes, it counts since Sora's in it now too. If a big selling point of the series is the crossovers, take more chances, stop playing it safe.
I think this is due to the hardware limitations of the PS2. Unlike a traditional turn-based RPG, your party is running around and fighting in KH, they aren't static models with limited animations. That's a lot of extra data onscreen. We only got extra party members on the PS4. This is a case of limitations dictating the lore.
It'd be so cool if the Princesses of Heart could influence other worlds by themselves instead of just being collected in a set like dragon balls
I think within the aspect of kingdom hearts 1, you forgot one tiny little detail that completely counters your argument.
If Alladin leaves the world then who's going to protect the keyhole from Heartless?
As you know, they keep spawning even after you complete the world so someone has to stay and keep watch.
Also the world order argument is flawed as while it is true that the villains are meddling, bringing along more people into the mix could make things complicated in the future as well.
Even if it does help solve the problem, it could create new ones down the line as well.
You are going to the worlds to restore order and not to cause even more confusion.
I don't get why the World Order is so inconsistent. Like it limits creativity, that's bad, but worse is that in KH1 and 3 it's taken super seriously, while in 2 Donald and Goofy themselves just flat out explain that there's multiple worlds to people
but dont locking keyholes keep the hearltess out of the "heart" of the world even if theyre still in the world?
If the reason was protecting the keyhole they should've just said that, but they didn't. And while I get what you're saying about not causing future problems, that doesn't really work if your goal is to maintain peace long-term. What's more likely to lead to conflict? Explaining the situation to those affected and working with people who are already involved in the crisis, or keeping everybody ignorant and preventing peaceful contact between those of different worlds?
Can't say I agree with you. Concerning Aladdin guarding the keyhole, they would have told him to guard it. Instead they didn't because it doesn't need to be under guard after sealing it. Allegedly, after sealing a keyhole to the heart of a world the heartless don't have a way to get into the heart of the world. Even in KH2 you don't reseal Agrabah's keyhole, your opening up gateways instead. Secondly if I did agree with what your saying then Genie shouldn't be allowed to go either, your still breaking "world order" by bringing him along. Not to mention if Aladdin did need to guard the keyhole (he doesn't need to) then taking Genie away only hurts Aladdin since the very first time we meet Aladdin he couldn't defeat the heartless on his own and needed Genie to save him. As for the rest it's pretty vague what your saying so I'm unsure how to reply to those statements. I'm still glad you contributed to the discussion though even if we may not agree.
I know it's all because Disney is strict about who each character interacts with but... yeah, it doesn't hold-up in universe much, either. Even Twilight Town and Traverse Town, which are meant to be places where people who have lost their hearts go, is just filled with bland NPCs. Not, you know, actually Disney and Square Enix characters.
Besides world order, your party member slots back then would be overloading
In kh2 if other world party members were allowed, it would be dope to see a Limit Between characters and Sora.
Donald and Goofy are Sora's best friends
And his "fathers". Hence why Donald & Goofy tells Sora to be safe. Like what fathers do to his child
And we can’t forget that time Stitch got Sora, Donald, and Goofy stuck in a computer for no reason whatsoever.
Hey, you can point out any break in Disney’s stupid “world order” rule, but let’s hope they’ll let a franchise get the visa for passing between worlds. Muppets, mayhaps?
Apparently in KH canon it’s against the rules to interfere with the ‘world order’ or in other words, lazy devs who can’t seem to program summoning extra characters to accompany Sora and friends on their journey. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Sora and the gang constantly break Disney canon with their actions. Where’s this ‘world order’ you keep blabbing about Donald? Hmmm? 🤨
I break this in my Fan Game and I do share your sentiment. Perhaps this will be taken into account in KH4 or a future game!
Moral of the story, don't take Disney lore seriously
It felt weird in KH3 that the World Order was brought up so much after KH2 practically ignored it. With certain worlds like Radiant Garden or Disney Castle/Town basically advancing to the point of having knowledge of other worlds, it feels like something that should be deconstructed and ignored.
Seriously, shouldn't meeting, trading, learning, and otherwise interacting with people different from you be considered a good thing?
PC mods
Lol true PC has all the answers.
I laughed like a million different times at this your writing is hilarious 😂
7:03 there is no way you beat dark valor JUST for this clip
It was an old file I loaded for some footage but I just paid Yojimbo for the one shot lol
@@NathinOut I may or may not have done the same thing LMAO
Aculy it was nevercsayed they shouldnt justvthat ther not suposed to knew in case they become evil and do stuff like Maleficent.
Personally i do not care, but interesting take.
I really Like what you have to say here, Is it ok if i make a similar video on the topic, ill shout you out
You don’t need to ask for my permission. That’s totally fine, looking forward to it.
Hey don't critize my favorite game
The actual reason behind it probably has something to do with Disney. They own the IP and have final creative say in everything