@@spumbucket6845 You say "obviously" but it's a GGG staple to make an "OP" league mechanic a lamer version of it when it goes core. If the Kingsmarch in general and the exchange in particular goes core you shouldn't be surprised if half the things that can be traded on it now disappears and you will be forced to manually trade for again.
Currency exchange while was implemented as a part of league mechanic it's standalone test whether this idea can exist in PoE. League mechanics nerfs have nothing to do with how currency exchange will look like and can exist without Kingsmarch being implemented to the game. Not really sure why are you linking those two together.
I hope the exchange is the only thing that goes core, it was fun to build the town and run mappers send ships and enchant your weapons. But i already noticed on my ssf run doing everything a second time is where the fun stoped
After a month it became extremely tedious to keep checking on Kingsmarch. I hate mechanics that start to feel like a part time job, but that's how Kingsmarch feels fairly quickly.
Every time I thought about playing POE, i also had the thought pop up of, omg i have to do the town bs too.. it was fun for like a day but after, i just quit the game
Kingsmarch is a golden case study on how to implement and balance currencies for game developers. The way different tradeoffs for gold are masquarade under different style of mechanics is really well done. And how well they are balanced, its really good.
If they keep gold sinks then they probably should buff the gold drops from heist, sanctum and to a lesser extent delve. Don't need them to be the best ways to get gold or anything, but it shouldn't make it feel like you are punished for running those mechanics.
While I agree, I don't think that will happen, stuff like delve, heist,logbooks, sanctum etc. tends to get shafted by whatever the league mechanic is pretty much everytime.
@@chriskim8022What is the opportunity cost of not running Delve/Heist? Anything that drops in these leagues can just be bought with currency. You can't buy gold.
Agree, IMO Heist done in what I term the casual way (basically killing as many monsters as you need to if you do not have phasing or movespeed beyond a quicksilver flask) should at least award 5000 gold per alched i83 contract.
Thanks mate! Definitely on the mend. I did have 72 cuts in this, but typically a vid this length would have been cut to 25-27 min with 150-200 cuts. Which is 2-3 times the work in post.
Love your videos, and also happy to hear you're taking care of yourself. Being honest about your limits and making sure you prioritize your health is the right call. Hope you feel better soon
the enchantement system is likelly gone since its quite some power creep , but there is nothing wrong about keeping gold for trading in the action house
@@MrRafagigapr gold will stay, the only doubt is kingsmarch and it's mechanics, but i believe ti will stay even if not full power, or you having to BUILD it, probably a grown" state.
The issue I have with all of Kingsmarch going core, is the feeling of it being forced. Given how the mechanic is setup and the passive nature of it, mixed with it being time based, means you would be pretty dumb not to use it.
Honestly I don't think we should have Kingsmarch per-se any more or even GOLD as we already have enough currencies in P.o.E. -- we don't need more. IMHO I'm fine with keeping some of the functionality of the Runsmithing bench but that could just be rolled into the crafting bench with Chaos, Exalt, or Divine costs as appropriate. As for Faustus just limiting the number of trades that you can make per [hour? day?] would go a long way towards keeping things in check. As for shipping & mappers they were a fun experiment but I wouldn't mind getting rid of them. As for recombinators -- at least as implemented -- seem to kill a lot of the crafts that I do anyway and as such I wouldn't mind if it goes back to the drawing board for a bit before [if?] they go core.
Thank you for posting this. I've felt like I've been arguing against the tide on Reddit pushing that it needs to remain in some form as a gold sink. I only play around one league a year now, so I hadn't noticed any broader economic impacts from the mappers; so my general proposal for how it should be made core was a base factor of 3 cut. 1 ship, 1 map device, 2 disenchanters, 1 worker per farm plot and ore/smelting type. Then cap the returns from boats at a point that gives a power runes or 1 of whatever the rarest tattoos are but no mirror shards. Then scale construction costs so it's fully built up, if not maximally staffed, by the time your atlas is done. At that point you could either stop and just have easy passive income from 1 divine boats or concentrate on it to get power runes, but without the huge reward gap that mirror shards give for maxing it now. I don't think massively more expensive recombination would work well as an alternative to the town as a primary gold sink. It might keep the top 1% of players occupied. But the complexity and gambling nature are going to keep a the next few levels of players mostly away from it even though we'll easily have more gold than we can put to good use with Faustus. As a way to reduce it's impact on other crafting systems, I assume GGG will want whatever 3.26s mechanic is to the the best way to make items in that league, and as a way to soak up the glut of gold that ultra-top end players will end up with under any circumstances that make Faustus usable by casuals it seems a reasonable option.
about the "loot to non-loot", i think a bigger impact than map runners is the lack of gold in any content not in a map, people aren't interested in playing these content, and so the access tokens gets cheap
The point about needing gold sinks is crystal clear for me because I don't get enough gold to make anything meaningful worthwhile, except for Faustus. And it feels awful because not doing shipping feels like I'm missing a large amount of profit. It's not the same as skipping out on whatever league mechanic people are hyping up as profitable. It should be somehow made more obvious that it's something you need to really invest in to make work, just like Delve or Heist. Then, make it less rewarding at the top end, like removing mirror shards, because it's something you can do passively while doing other farms.
I actually think the mirror shards from shipping are much better for casual players than they are for the core players that always end up running the economy, *because* they're time limited. All you need to do is learn how to farm gold correctly. You just need a build that can quickly clear T16 maps and that shouldn't be that big of a challenge, even for a casual player. You can do this for a couple hours and have enough gold to keep your farmers going for a week. If you're on the more casual side and you're not maximizing kingsmarch, then it's not that kingsmarch is bad for you, it's that you're doing it wrong. Personally, I don't mind if they remove the shipping going forward, but I hope they continue to include passive income in some form, and I hope that it's significant the way Kingsmarch has been. It helps a lot to narrow the gap between casual players and core players. In my case, I stayed interested in the league much longer because I could feasibly invest in mirror+ builds without an insane amount of grind so long as I kept my farmers employed throughout the week. When you're earning multiple mirrors a week, a few mirror shards a week aren't going to make a big difference. If you're struggling to earn more than a couple dozen divine per week, a few mirror shards are going to be a gamechanger.
@@brianh5844 > All you need to do is learn how to farm gold correctly. You just need a build that can quickly clear T16 maps and that shouldn't be that big of a challenge, even for a casual player. That's the problem, it's not easy. Sure, you can "do" T16s, but you can't "farm" them in any way that will earn you enough gold to support regular shipping. If you're only getting occasional shipping done, then you're not getting the top-tier rewards.
@@brianh5844 I don't think casuals are saving up for 50m shipments. Not even the "I'm beating T16s moderately comfortably, can kill Eater and Exarch but T17s are beyond me" tier of player. There's a degree of minmaxing involved in saying "I'll forgo 70 700k shipments that each have a good chance at one divine orb, maybe 2, and risk all that on a mirror shard lottery". Not to mention the need for at least 4 T10 shippers, which is a couple million more gold. @rhettorical - make sure you take the Invasive Adversaries Atlas node, it's something like 35% more gold in T1-T16 maps (less in T17s). It's dangerous, but VERY worth it.
@@sirgog If they aren't, they should/could be. I'm exactly in that tier of player, maybe slightly above. I generally don't run T17s because some of the bosses give me trouble and I don't like dying 1/3 to 1/2 the time per map. It's really not difficult to make the gold required to have your farmers going all week. It's a two hour investment (or so) in T16 maps. All you have to do is withhold gratification a little bit and not spend the gold on other things and you're, well, golden. There's also a sort of educational thing going on here where it's not about playtime but knowledge. I'm casual in the sense of how much time I have to devote to the game and farm, but I'm not in the sense that I have a voracious appetite for information about the game and have been playing it on and off since beta. Even despite that, I've never had the time, commitment, or perhaps disposition to be a "top player." My assertion is that with a little knowledge, Kingsmarch benefits casual players much more than it does the core players or top players, as does any time-gated reward, so long as the investment to achieve it is not asking too much. I don't think the gold investment to achieve full time farming is actually that prohibitive *once you know how to farm gold.* It's a skill that takes some time to learn, but it's not that difficult: it's not like learning how to recombinate items well.
@@sirgog That's roughly where I'm at. I can do all but the most juiced t16s comfortably, but only have time for 10-20 on an average play session. I can do t17s but am averaging about 1 death per map despite filtering out most of the nasty/profitable mods from my rolls, and with enough of a slow down I'm not convinced it's worth doing other than as a challenge to build my skills up. I sent my first 50m shipment a bit over a month ago, and have sent 2 more since. Pursuing 50m shipments is really squeezing me though, before shipping was solved and I was running an 8-10k/hour farm and sending 700k divine fishing boats kingsmarch was much more relaxing since I didn't have to worry as much about my gold income. Now if I have a short play session or what I try just isn't very gold efficient I'm not farming the entire time I'm offline, never mind running a team of mappers. In that mode I didn't really care if top level players were sending 3-4x as many boats as I was, because they were probably also getting 10-50x as much loot from regular mapping too. The payout from the big shipments was too much to ignore, they've been roughly half my net income over the last month.
i personally really liked kings march, but not the gold upkeep cost. It created some strong fomo and made me feel bad when i didnt have enough gold stored up as i was "wasting" time. But the upgrading mechanics and the people managing i liked. and the currency exchange is such a big QoL, i only did like 2-3 trades outside of it (when doing bigger div-trades like 1 -> 1200 fusing orbs) or for items, everything outjside of that i just did via the exchange. so much better, so much time saved
The dense fosils point is solved by high quality bases, you can't risk a T1 30% quality base to recombinators, you would use denses + eldrich to craft. Recombinators is a ""cheap"" way to get your late game set
This was probably my favorite league of all time and I played heavily from launch to the Gauntlet AND it was my first ever league playing trade (I'm usually SSF). The currency market is amazing and fixes most of what I disliked about trade league. I would play trade again if the market stays, if not i go back to SSF. Kingsmarch was great and I'd love to see it go core and receive small updates in future patches. I think it is a mechanic with a lot of room to grow.
The way I see it - currency exchange and black market will stay as the only mechanics from settlers. But I also have hope that they expand on it and make a league of conquering wraeclast that works a bit like mappers, but they find only some basic stuff, while also finding boss encounters for players.
if only 1 feature will go core than it is without a doubt the currency exchange. It has made playing the game much pleasant. Now I get ignored only with equipment trades.
GGG might have other usage plans for gold such as new league mechanics. Keeping Kingsmarch as it is puts a heavy strain on gold reservers, which would hurt those who are not juicers.
Turning all the trash loot into something value in the form of gold and dust was brilliant. Currency exchange going core is a no-brainer. I would be happy with all other aspects as well, but I could live without mining.
Perfect take pretty much imho. Great video. Sry to hear bout the back woes. Another thing about shipping vs faustus strategies is that the majority of players seem to basically hate faustus money making shenanigans which is just yet another reason shipping etc will surely stay, or like you said maybe new gold uses are added (my money is on at least some gold sinks staying). Will be very interested to see an analysis on atlas runners being better per gold spent than shipping since at first glance they seem pretty bad
Ive heard you out and im unconvinced all of 3.25 needs to go core. Fautus is the only thing i need, gold costs for individual currency exchanges and gold drops can be fine tuned. Considering how wild the economy has been in the past i dont see why this would be an issue. And standard has always been disregarded. It's forever a losing battle against a zimbabwe-level economy over there. I found settlers a boring mechanic. Probably my least favorite mechanic since Blight. It was dull and encouraged FOMO. I would be happy to see nothing sans Faustus go core, but if it all did, i'd ignore it as much as possible. The problem for me in the latter scenario is if they balance gold around settlers existing. It would feel shitty to have a mechanic i have no interest in delving in impacting something i need to engage in on a constant basis. The game has largely avoided this up until now, content is pretty well siloed.
I don't think GGG can remove Faustus' trade without massive backlash and I'm sure they were aware of this going into the league. The rest, they can cut/keep and wouldn't have a major impact on the playerbase imo. Personally, I hope they keep the disenchanting/shipping in some way, it was great to combat inflation and keep normally low-value uniques at decent price throughout the league. Kinda reminds me of Runescape's Invention skill (disassebling items for components then crafting with those), I kinda wonder if they could take it a step further, disassembling items for straight currency or new fragments of some kind. Honestly, 3.26 could just be Kingsmarch 2.0 and I'd love it. Let us build our own Grand Arena and host ToTA!
I hope so, love everything about Kingsmarch. On the fence about Dust though, probably something that isn't needed. If Dust sticks around, I want to cook my Uniques through Rog in my Hideout instead of travelling to Kingsmarch. Biggest change I want is how gold is earned, since you can't really engage with the mechanic if you play content that doesn't give any good amount of gold, like Sanctum and Heist.
My guess is they'll keep Faustus for exchange and black market, and recombs (+ disenchanter to account for the dust) and the rest would just be borrowed power for this league only (except if they want to keep tattoos core, in which case they'll need to keep boats, or find a new way to get them from 3.26 onwards). It would also get rid of the need to have the "ores" encounters in maps be distributed with other game mechanics. Although from a lore perspective, we already know that Kingsmarch still exists a few decades later, so it would be reasonable to have the town stay in PoE 1 now that it's been built.
OKay I watched the video... one point that I think is a compelling reason to keep Kingsmarch (all of it going core with minor tweaks) is that it is great both in trade AND in SSF... I felt like it made more builds viable and gave more power to a build through runes and the black market (and crafting currency from ships) allowing you to grind things you need sooner and faster and safer (if SSF hardcore). The ships were great for getting uniques as well. I found Kingsmarch to be very helpful when participating in the Gauntlet. I didn't spend time upgrading or investing in aspects of kingsmarch that I didn't need or didn't have time to get to. Utilizing Kingsmarch during gauntlet (and another SSF hardcore private league tournament I did) was really interesting and eye opening about how people can use kingsmarch in the future leagues if it goes core. It just made me realize how I should have used kingsmarch in trade league even... ultimately the point is that kingsmarch, gives a lot of flexibility with builds in what you have to do (often I am playing a build and it isn't good at a league mechanic that I need something from... and there is a means to get the same items from kingsmarch ships or blackmarket. Even just currency from chips... you can get currency from Tujen and expedition, but if your build isn't good at expedition or you don't like expedition you can do ships... you also can get currency from red alters... but that is end game... expedition is end game... ship allow you to make currency during the campaign without a ton of time sink or overhead and even offline... BUT part of my point is that maybe you do ships during the campaign to build up currency which is more RNG, and then do expedition/Tujen at end game because you have more choice in what you get... in SSF you can use black market early, ROG at the start of maps and atlas unlock and then other crafting methods at end-end game. IDK, kingsmarch just fit into trade league and SSF so beautifully. Runes, recombinators, tattoos and totems, dust (giving duplicate or useless uniques a purpose), same with maps for map runners (first league where I don't have a zillion maps) ... these things need a place in the game and kingsmarch is a great place for them to land AND can be expanded to accommodate other futue league mechanics or rewards that don't have a place to fit in.
Man, as someone who really enjoyed Heist League, but really hates doing Heist now, I hope they seriously pare down Kingsmarch. I don't want to have to farm up metals & gold to upgrade a bunch of different subsystems just to have something to spend my metals and gold on. I don't want to have to play hiring manager in 3.26. I'd be happy to just invest raw gold into a shipment, and come back in an hour or whatever to a pile of basic currency. IMO, the metals should be icing on the cake for Kingsmarch; maybe those boost gold returns, or tweak the shipment drop tables, or keep them somewhat similar and have them drop well-rolled rares or whatever, but the basic mechanic should just turn gold into currency with as few steps as possible.
It's insane to me how many people want the full Kingsmarch package. Most of it is borrowed power that we know won't go core. The only thing that deserves to stay is the currency exchange. The currency exchange alone more than doubled my playtime from past leagues.
Absolutely not. Specifically, the town with mobile game-esque "Daily" quests (shipments,runners etc) with fear of missing out if you are not playing every day, should not be in the core POE experience. IMO.
Faustus is mandatory to stay. The rest of Kingsmarch was fun, but I don't want to do it again and you're going to be forced to do it if it stays in the game since loot has shifted to shipping/mapping/farming. I like your 5th option, keep Faustus and add a new gold sink mechanic.
The only thing I care about is Faustus. If 3.26 doesn’t have the currency market and I have to whisper many people again, hoping for a bot to answer, just for consumables, I would probably get discouraged super fast.
Not really a big fan of Kingsmarch past a league mechanic, as I don't like feeling like I am basically up shit creek if I don't spend a lot of time farming for gold for mappers, dust, shipments etc. I would like gold to have be implemented into the game with the main use case being for the currency exchange. Excess gold can be used elsewhere (such as Faustus gambling) that is valuable enough in large stockpiles to gamble big, otherwise just use it for trade.
Personally, I think 3.25 runes and tradehouse were a huge W. The dock is a bit of a side mechanic that I wouldn't mind keeping or missing either way. The portal mechanic I didn't even use at some point it was a massive goldsink without any reward I couldn't just get myself in 10 minutes. Recombinators were apparently really good after all people say??? If they add it back I'm gonna leave it on cooldown for a league to be sure it's actually in, because I'm not getting harvest baited again into learning a new crafting mechanic for nothing, considering how much time it takes me to learn new crafting mechanics.
Gold, Faustus and Faustus black market can go core without Kingsmarch with no problem at all. Suppose Kingsmarch currently represents 95% of all gold spent by players. Just nerf gold drop by 95% (which is anyway good for our screen clutter), lower respec cost the same amount so it's not affected, and that's it. The faustus opportunity cost stays the same. The amount of friction of people wanting to abuse Faustus will be the same. Faustus black market stays the same / doesn't become overpowered.
There's 2 options: 1) Slight rebalancing of the town for not having the ores as accessible. 2) faustus and gold core, they did say they were implemented with a separation being possible. Imo the whole town going core in a shrunk way is the most likely, everything about it is popular afaik, and it's a great way for people who don't play a lot but play regularly (i.e. 30 min to an hour a day) to get some rewards.
Kind of enjoy mappers.. It's nice having a sink for all those extra maps other than just selling them in bulk, and that also increases the value of bulk sold maps for those who enjoy doing that. Only things I really don't like about it is the gold cost (too high compared to benefits obtained imo), the micromanagement of it, and re-buying mappers. This might sound counter-intuitive, but I wish it took longer for the mappers to get through the maps.. I it feels like a tedious chore filling it back up and wading through the loot. Perhaps they should consider condensing the loot from the maps a bit also or restricting it to currency/big ticket drops? Or maybe I should just get more comfortable with tossing things in the trash :)
One thing that I absolutely loathe in games are "forced" login mechanics or high degrees of F.O.M.O.. What I'd like to see, even more than the currency exchange, is to currently kill the FOMO element -- and thus looking at other ways to make sure the currency exchange doesn't cause more problems than it solves.
@@JayM928POE shouldnt be using psychological tricks that mobile games use to keep players logging in every day. it's bad for the long term health of the game.
@@JayM928 He's referring to the various timers this league brought with it. Find a mine and free it? well, now wait for your miners to mine it. Sent a ship? wait a few hours for it to come back. Sent something to disenchant? Well, better go do some maps cause you're not getting your blue powder any time soon. That is if you didn't give all your maps to map runners to play the end game for you. Farming? more time. Everything other than trading and crafting is on a timer and creates the psychological impression of sub optimal play if you're not in town to start the next action the moment your previous orders just finished executing.
@@JayM928 Force is [obviously] a bad word choice. If you don't understand what I was trying to communicate then you're either trolling OR have such a different opinion of timers, needing to farm gold to keep things moving along, etc. that futher meaningful conversation is unlikely.
If they remove the currency exchange without replacing it with something even better I will not be coming back to PoE. I have played thousands of hours, and always hated having to interact with the trade site and made like 10-20 transactions over the span of a hole league, and usually not selling more than a couple over very valuable items. That meant I could never follow a strategy that involved scarabs, or selling stuff like essences, so the game was reduce to semi-self-fund. So if I cannot buy essences, sell oils and life force etc. I will no longer play the game. Simple as that. Same goes for PoE 2, either it has proper trading or I will most likely abandon it after a playthough or two. Also I think they should make more items stackable and sellable, like unidentified maps, memories and other stuff that otherwise now just rots in the inventory. I would prefer at least unidentified uniques to be tradeable as well, but that is not a big deal.
I get it because Faustus is super convenient, and I really want the exchange to stay as well. However, as a prior D2 player (and thus not used to having any trading system, or many nice things in general for that matter), this perspective is hilarious. When I finally made the swap to PoE in 3.24 I was amazed by the convenience of the trade site. Sure, sometimes you have to message 20 people to get an answer - but selling is much easier than that, and compared to what I was used to I find the trade site to be incredibly convenient and easy to use.
@@AlucardNoir It doesn't even happen that often though. As long as you're trading for something 40c+, most of the time you get a response within like 3 tries. All I'm saying is I think there's a little exaggeration about "how bad" the trade site is; it's really not that bad for anyone with even an ounce of patience.
Leave kingsmarch in as is, just put mining into delve. This way delve is more needed to unlock nodes for mining, to get that out of mapping and into another mechanic.
As far as I'm concerned I can do without most of the Kingsmarch mechanics except for the Faustus currency-to-currency exchange and possibly the runesmithing table. For runesmithing I'd be fine with those crafts being rolled into the crafting table and have chaos, exalt, divine costs [as appropriate] to do the craft. As for Faustus I think a combination of two things would be most of what's needed ... 1. Limit the number of "new" orders you can have per hour to ten or so ... perhaps allowing for a player to repeat the same order would not count as a new order?? 2. Get rid of the currency-to-currency exchanges on trade site as I suspect you don't want to effectively have two different trade economies.
I would like to see mining, farming and ships go. Map runners rebalanced to fill ships role. To make gold have value: remove orbs of unmaking, gold and recipe only. map device uses gold. common scarabs and frags can be bought with gold (this has to be thought out well, but as a private league player I am bias for this), crafting bench has a gold cost.
This is my assumption: - Keep Fausiltis - Keep the minors and the ore but increase the Minor's salary considerably so they become the biggest gold sync. - Keep the boat shipments and have the rewards changed so each type of ore is very different -remove everything else The idea behind the ore is that it's something with which you can interact in the maps, so you could have kingsmach scarabs, you could have nodes in the atlas tree making certain types of ores more prevalent, etc... And the boat shipments could still trigger the boss encounter.
It'll be interesting to see how Kingsmarch goes core for sure. I think the trade market will go core in some form eventually once they are ready to implement gold into core game. So my own speculation is Fautus will be back in a near future league, not the next one due to time constraint and preparation, gold goes core and used for respec, trade market, buying unid gear from fautus, maybe recomb but nerfed cause it's too OP right now, everything else gone.
I recall them saying that they wanted kingsmarch league to be a testing ground for gold and its interaction with the game for when poe2 is launched i'd be very surprised if a new town to upgrade and send boats is not part of the base game in poe2
I wonder if Rog/Disenchanting could be free, but the dust generated replace gold as the currency for the other mechanics? The opportunity cost becomes the farming of items plus the disenchanting time. This would also eliminate gold and keep everything self-contained, plus allow throttling via disenchanting time and dust cost.
I think turn ships into a flat gold sink rather than using vegetables or metals, remove farming, mining, disenchanting and runesmithing. Make recombining flat gold cost as well. Leave Faustus as is, remove the ‘employees system. It would make kingsmarch pretty redundant, but as is it seems like it would be a time tax if left with as many management systems as it has right now. I expect they will dumb it down quite a lot.
This is my first league and I obtained a mageblood and lots more! Some would be attributed to Kingsmarch but Id say a majority would be learning solid in map farming strats. Im a dad gamer and will manage a few 50 mils but thats not the dominate way in making money, all seems pretty balanced!
I want Faustus and Gold to go core, and 1 Gold sink the Atlas Runners. And here's my reason for the Runners' "Singular focus": You can't take it because you don't want to destroy T17 cards. That's why T16 cards are accumulating like crazy in my Stash. Leaving a T16 card on the ground feels really bad, so I take it. Now when the Runners suck up cards and gold, for a small reward for my time spent on it. I agree with that. Keep in mind that I would normally get an Alt or 1C for my card by singular focus. If GGG goes down this path, they need to clearly communicate to the player base that this is a work in progress. If you have another gold sink in mind for the new league mechanic, you need to lower the gold cost for the runners, if there is no other sink, you need to increase it, and so on. It's a lot of work on the GGG site with constant rebalancing on ther site. But I want to a way to convert the maps I don't run into Mony, even if it's a very small amount.
I agree with you, taht you can't bring faustus without a proper goldsink other trhan him. But I for myself hope that kingsmarsh does not go core (even I liked it a lot as a league mechanic) but having constant real time events that trigger my fomo would kill the game enjoyment for me. I think GGG would be able to make other non realtime goldsinks and rebalance gold drop rate to make faustus work without kingsmarch (and I hope they willl)
i just want Faustus core. i'm willing to gamble on whatever other changes they make being good or bad just like we gamble on the league mechanic every league, including whether the rest of Kingsmarch mechanics going core or not are each individually good or bad. they'll tweak those things over time like always and we'll end up somewhere good eventually... Faustus isn't like that though. Faustus is, as you said, on the level of keeping/removing loot filters and other systems i would call "critical infrastructure".
They need to get rid of Kingsmarch demanding upkeep for farmers, mappers, dust grind, etc. etc. Tedium of grinding gold to sustain the town should go. I don't want system that works 24/7 and generates income passively in the game like farmers and to lesser degree mappers do now. But Fausts or rather Currency Exhchange has to stay in the game. I am liking idea of gold being used for whatever gonna be current League mechanic in a different way. But that might be restricting design space.
If it goes core you can remove the atlas runners. Remove metals from maps. You get infinite metals than you can mine/smelt this allows more control in what you want to ship
recombs also need to go.....its absolutly STUPID and op at the same time....Gauntlet was watching Ben sittin in kingsmarch recombing and altspamming for HOURS........giga STUPID
I'd say yes. Maybe some gold adjustment should be made and gold should be farmable in all mechanics. However, they may just keep Faust and hope gamba and respec are enough for gold sink. I want recombinators and mappers to be core too.
Kingsmarch was great and just needs a few tweaks. I don’t need the mechanic to rain gold in the dozens of thousands every map but some strats were clearly more dominant for gold maintenance. Tweak that plus stuff like heist and or delve to be more gold sustainable. Maybe also considering dropping the insane grind to max level things so it’s fun and not a chore feeling. Besides that, I was pretty ok with it. Feels like a lot of the haters don’t like the steady currency income messing with fixing costs they profit off of. Just my opinion tho
If they were to just introduce the trade market, I would limit the gold you can have based on account progression for the league. Something like a cap of 5k for act 1, adding 5k each act all the way to 50k for act 10. Once you get to maps, each "Bonus" objective completed adds 2.5k to your cap so with 151 maps you end up with a cap of around 425k.
@@trankhanhtuonghuynh212 aren't bots mostly stopped by forcing a gold bottleneck fast and often since they cannot procure gold at any meaningful rates like in the initial implementation this league? Making it a 98% worse experience for everyone is going to help how exactly?
I want the exchange to go core... maybe the new weapon enchants(nerfed for balance ofc)... the rest... I don't want to go core. in map mechanic I am fine with... if its the bismuth(visual clarity, etc...)
Faustus exchange is nice i want it to be improved upon and added to the core game, kingsmarch however i would absolutely hate if it went core. Kingsmarch feels like some mobile game made to ruin people who have addiction problems (i used to be like this) that feels forced to either just play a little more until their ship arrives or just grind abit more gold so they can farm while they sleep or even make them put an alarm in the middle of the night just so they can wake up loot the ship and send a new one. I think no league mechanic should have a timer like this it is terrible for players. I knew i was like this when i played games with similar mechanics and refused to interact with it but im sure you guys can relate to my points, how many of you stayed up 15-20 min extra to loot a boat and send a new one when you really should have gone to bed?
Can't agree more. I didn't mind the buildup too much [other than RNG looking for workers] but once everything is fully built the gold should be just a whisker more than "self-sufficient" so there isn't that piece of FOMO. In this case the "rewards" of mappers and/or shippers would be that they could offset the basic gold costs of the city and wouldn't return money per-se. HOWEVER we could keep disenchanters, recombinators, and runesmiths as "dust" may be the go-to-currency for these items?? Balancing would be a chore but perhaps all tier 1 uniques will now have value as opposed to an interesting bauble.
I have to say... I like kingsmarch a lot, and the thought of it going away because you can't log off the game seems pretty crappy. You don't have a drinking problem and we have to make alcohol illegal for everyone for you, too, do we? I sympathize somewhat, but how do you NOT log on to other games that primarily focus on that, like mobile games? Should we make sure you don't have a phone, too?
@@JayM928 I think GGG are allowed to make whatever decision they want, if they want kingsmarch to go core then it does i just think that morally it's abit shady since you are using FOMO to keep people playing. Its a tactic used by the mobile gaming industry and i think its a poison that i really hope never touches great games such as POE.
@@johntsiroyiannis1072 well missing out on where a good bit of my currency came from would have felt pretty bad too. So while technically it’s optional, mentally i felt that I needed to do it.
@@valjohnson7112 In that case, i should bring to your attention all the value and wealth you are missing out on when not doing any one of the multiples of strats for multiples of ten div per hour if you are so keen on considering things that you are NOT doing.
@@valjohnson7112 There are tons of ways to make currency if that's what you want. Kingsmarch is one of them which you can choose to do or not to do. If you get informed on the rest of the multitude of ways and try some of them out, maybe you won't feel so bad or pidgeonholed towards something ever again.
oh i hated the timed fomo mobil game style of kingmarch.. more of a retention mechanic than fun. If i could change that iId love to see it go core, since everything else it brought was great.
One scenario, which is unlikely but interesting is if they remove gold but not Kingsmarch or Faustus. Gathering metals to pay Faustus for trading would remove the gold FOMO and allow an atlas for hideout traders where they run to nodes, similar to delve nodes but without the delving. Thoughts?
NO it should not go core. I don't know why people are coping on this so much. The one main reason is the amount of gold needed for this is too fucking high and it takes away from the gold drip and causes a problem with the auction house. If we didn't have 3.25 mechanics we'd have infinite gold to trade with. Surely I'm not the only one that would HATE to have to level this mechanic every league. Fucking kill me
Honestly I'm all in favor of getting rid of gold entirely. IMHO it distorted the league, mapping, etc. too much to make sure that your main strats also gave you a reasonable gold income. If GGG refuses to drop gold then at least make Kingsmarch [once built up] just a whisker better than self-sufficient in terms of gold production so we don't have to deal with timers, running out of gold, etc. getting in the way of [more] fun things we'd rather be doing.
Only the shipping stuff was the only thing that got me devines last season but it took so much investment that I pretty much didn’t even touch kings match until late season when I really didn’t need it anymore
I think the biggest issue for it to go core now in any changed form, is that GGG might not think they have the resources needed atm to address the changes they might want to see, as POE2 seems to take a lot of work. But what solution they would prefer in that case between keep in for a league, or keep it out i don't know.
@@sirgog well I get that , but sometimes things like that need time to cook, to get to the bottom of whats right to do. If that's the case, I think the most safe thing to do, is to keep it in unchanged for another league but not establishing it as gone core yet. (kind of testing how tiresome the community will find the leveling of the town) But that off-cause depends on what they are giving us for 3.26 then
I hope they retune shipping and mappers and keep kingsmarch in. I will say, my brother is very casual as a player and hated kingsmarch as it felt like a chore to keep enough gold to keep things going so maybe make it a little more gold for base non juiced monsters but keep the juiced monsters roughly the same.
exchange has to go core, but i would like to see a new feature such as ''player stores''. for instance, you search for an item on the trade website, click a link which opens a store tab in game which is the seller's public tab or tabs and you pick up your item and you can continue browsing their tab. this should have a ''locking'' mechanism to prevent 2 players from buying the same item. in conclusion, trading sucks 😢
My personal prediction of what will happen: Recombinator and Auction House stay, this means disenchanter might stay as well. Removal of Mining, Smelting, Farming, Shipments or a redesign. Gold might stay or be reworked, i'd like to see ability to exchange heist markers and or expedition artifacts into gold. Enchantments are borrowed power mechanic so no way we're keeping that. If we do it's gonna be severely nerfed for sure.
Oh of course Black Market Gambling would also stay as an additional Gold Sink. With fewer Gold Sings the gold drops would be severely reduced of course.
I think it would be kind of sad if the only thing that came from this league was a 2nd way to trade. Looks like i'm clearly the only one though :s I already know how to use the trade site to find the items I want, the only thing the exchange did for me was give me a way to flip items for profit. If I wanted to buy bulk materials to actually play the game like scarabs for example, the exchange was often more expensive than the trade site (unless buying in bulk on trade and then it was about the same, at which point I don't really see the difference, you're saving a minute of your time maximum) I've been reading people don't like feeling forced to map and actually play the game to interact with the mechanic for shipments and stuff, which to me sounds like hideout warrior crafter/flipper logic. The league mechanic in its entirety rewarded actually playing the game and I loved it :P (admittedly a few previous league mechanics were for some reason exempt from this i.e heist)
I think 3.25 is a huge W for POE imo, I definitely would want the Exchange to be in core.
They obviously are not removing the exchange. They know the cats out the bag
@@spumbucket6845 You say "obviously" but it's a GGG staple to make an "OP" league mechanic a lamer version of it when it goes core. If the Kingsmarch in general and the exchange in particular goes core you shouldn't be surprised if half the things that can be traded on it now disappears and you will be forced to manually trade for again.
@@Hooga89 if you think they are gonna remove the exchange house then u dont know shit about the game lol
Currency exchange while was implemented as a part of league mechanic it's standalone test whether this idea can exist in PoE. League mechanics nerfs have nothing to do with how currency exchange will look like and can exist without Kingsmarch being implemented to the game. Not really sure why are you linking those two together.
@@DiegoGonzalez-my4wz Learn to read.
I hope the exchange is the only thing that goes core, it was fun to build the town and run mappers send ships and enchant your weapons. But i already noticed on my ssf run doing everything a second time is where the fun stoped
After a month it became extremely tedious to keep checking on Kingsmarch.
I hate mechanics that start to feel like a part time job, but that's how Kingsmarch feels fairly quickly.
Its my 3rd time doing it , once in SC, then in gauntlet, now in HCSSF and I really cant be assed anymore
Every time I thought about playing POE, i also had the thought pop up of, omg i have to do the town bs too.. it was fun for like a day but after, i just quit the game
Just keep faustus and gold, the game has so many involved mechanics already.
Wish You speedy recovery man!
thanks mate! Big steps forward today, it's been better each day
Kingsmarch is a golden case study on how to implement and balance currencies for game developers. The way different tradeoffs for gold are masquarade under different style of mechanics is really well done. And how well they are balanced, its really good.
If they keep gold sinks then they probably should buff the gold drops from heist, sanctum and to a lesser extent delve.
Don't need them to be the best ways to get gold or anything, but it shouldn't make it feel like you are punished for running those mechanics.
@@Nimroc i disagree. Opportunity costs and what not.
While I agree, I don't think that will happen, stuff like delve, heist,logbooks, sanctum etc. tends to get shafted by whatever the league mechanic is pretty much everytime.
@@chriskim8022What is the opportunity cost of not running Delve/Heist? Anything that drops in these leagues can just be bought with currency. You can't buy gold.
Agree, IMO Heist done in what I term the casual way (basically killing as many monsters as you need to if you do not have phasing or movespeed beyond a quicksilver flask) should at least award 5000 gold per alched i83 contract.
@@neppity5887 opportunity cost of running non mapping league mechanics.
Very well done considering little to no editing! Hope your back gets better soon mate.
Thanks mate! Definitely on the mend. I did have 72 cuts in this, but typically a vid this length would have been cut to 25-27 min with 150-200 cuts. Which is 2-3 times the work in post.
The exchange is the only part of 3.25 that i want to go core
Love your videos, and also happy to hear you're taking care of yourself. Being honest about your limits and making sure you prioritize your health is the right call. Hope you feel better soon
I can't go back without Kingsmarch.
the enchantement system is likelly gone since its quite some power creep , but there is nothing wrong about keeping gold for trading in the action house
@@MrRafagigapr gold will stay, the only doubt is kingsmarch and it's mechanics, but i believe ti will stay even if not full power, or you having to BUILD it, probably a grown" state.
same
@@banishedbr that's the idea, we were building the first town in poe2. now it's built.
Super interesting video!
I slipped a disc last year… hope you are feeling better. Posture is everything.
The exchange is amazing. It completely changed the way I think about wealth progression in this game, in the best possible way.
Hey gog i hope your back feels better, dont overexert yourself mate
The issue I have with all of Kingsmarch going core, is the feeling of it being forced. Given how the mechanic is setup and the passive nature of it, mixed with it being time based, means you would be pretty dumb not to use it.
Honestly I don't think we should have Kingsmarch per-se any more or even GOLD as we already have enough currencies in P.o.E. -- we don't need more. IMHO I'm fine with keeping some of the functionality of the Runsmithing bench but that could just be rolled into the crafting bench with Chaos, Exalt, or Divine costs as appropriate. As for Faustus just limiting the number of trades that you can make per [hour? day?] would go a long way towards keeping things in check. As for shipping & mappers they were a fun experiment but I wouldn't mind getting rid of them. As for recombinators -- at least as implemented -- seem to kill a lot of the crafts that I do anyway and as such I wouldn't mind if it goes back to the drawing board for a bit before [if?] they go core.
Nice. I always appreciate your analyses and conjectures. I hope your back will get better quickly.
Thank you for posting this. I've felt like I've been arguing against the tide on Reddit pushing that it needs to remain in some form as a gold sink. I only play around one league a year now, so I hadn't noticed any broader economic impacts from the mappers; so my general proposal for how it should be made core was a base factor of 3 cut. 1 ship, 1 map device, 2 disenchanters, 1 worker per farm plot and ore/smelting type. Then cap the returns from boats at a point that gives a power runes or 1 of whatever the rarest tattoos are but no mirror shards. Then scale construction costs so it's fully built up, if not maximally staffed, by the time your atlas is done. At that point you could either stop and just have easy passive income from 1 divine boats or concentrate on it to get power runes, but without the huge reward gap that mirror shards give for maxing it now.
I don't think massively more expensive recombination would work well as an alternative to the town as a primary gold sink. It might keep the top 1% of players occupied. But the complexity and gambling nature are going to keep a the next few levels of players mostly away from it even though we'll easily have more gold than we can put to good use with Faustus. As a way to reduce it's impact on other crafting systems, I assume GGG will want whatever 3.26s mechanic is to the the best way to make items in that league, and as a way to soak up the glut of gold that ultra-top end players will end up with under any circumstances that make Faustus usable by casuals it seems a reasonable option.
Yes, i've got thousands of maps to run, hundreds of uniques to disenchant. That should clear up my remove only stash, GG!
Well done. Good structure, thought process, and argumentation. as always. props and thank you for spending the time to make this vid.
Who else just skipped to the future of Rog? Rog is love. Rog is life.
@@uniferunifies rog is Shrek
rog=love, rog=shrek. Then by the rule of transitivity shrek=love ❤
about the "loot to non-loot", i think a bigger impact than map runners is the lack of gold in any content not in a map, people aren't interested in playing these content, and so the access tokens gets cheap
I see new Sirgog video, I like and comment. Get well soon bro
Thanks mate! Miles better today than yesterday, last Friday was bad
The point about needing gold sinks is crystal clear for me because I don't get enough gold to make anything meaningful worthwhile, except for Faustus. And it feels awful because not doing shipping feels like I'm missing a large amount of profit. It's not the same as skipping out on whatever league mechanic people are hyping up as profitable. It should be somehow made more obvious that it's something you need to really invest in to make work, just like Delve or Heist. Then, make it less rewarding at the top end, like removing mirror shards, because it's something you can do passively while doing other farms.
I actually think the mirror shards from shipping are much better for casual players than they are for the core players that always end up running the economy, *because* they're time limited. All you need to do is learn how to farm gold correctly. You just need a build that can quickly clear T16 maps and that shouldn't be that big of a challenge, even for a casual player. You can do this for a couple hours and have enough gold to keep your farmers going for a week.
If you're on the more casual side and you're not maximizing kingsmarch, then it's not that kingsmarch is bad for you, it's that you're doing it wrong.
Personally, I don't mind if they remove the shipping going forward, but I hope they continue to include passive income in some form, and I hope that it's significant the way Kingsmarch has been. It helps a lot to narrow the gap between casual players and core players. In my case, I stayed interested in the league much longer because I could feasibly invest in mirror+ builds without an insane amount of grind so long as I kept my farmers employed throughout the week.
When you're earning multiple mirrors a week, a few mirror shards a week aren't going to make a big difference. If you're struggling to earn more than a couple dozen divine per week, a few mirror shards are going to be a gamechanger.
@@brianh5844
> All you need to do is learn how to farm gold correctly. You just need a build that can quickly clear T16 maps and that shouldn't be that big of a challenge, even for a casual player.
That's the problem, it's not easy. Sure, you can "do" T16s, but you can't "farm" them in any way that will earn you enough gold to support regular shipping. If you're only getting occasional shipping done, then you're not getting the top-tier rewards.
@@brianh5844 I don't think casuals are saving up for 50m shipments. Not even the "I'm beating T16s moderately comfortably, can kill Eater and Exarch but T17s are beyond me" tier of player.
There's a degree of minmaxing involved in saying "I'll forgo 70 700k shipments that each have a good chance at one divine orb, maybe 2, and risk all that on a mirror shard lottery". Not to mention the need for at least 4 T10 shippers, which is a couple million more gold.
@rhettorical - make sure you take the Invasive Adversaries Atlas node, it's something like 35% more gold in T1-T16 maps (less in T17s). It's dangerous, but VERY worth it.
@@sirgog If they aren't, they should/could be. I'm exactly in that tier of player, maybe slightly above. I generally don't run T17s because some of the bosses give me trouble and I don't like dying 1/3 to 1/2 the time per map. It's really not difficult to make the gold required to have your farmers going all week. It's a two hour investment (or so) in T16 maps. All you have to do is withhold gratification a little bit and not spend the gold on other things and you're, well, golden.
There's also a sort of educational thing going on here where it's not about playtime but knowledge. I'm casual in the sense of how much time I have to devote to the game and farm, but I'm not in the sense that I have a voracious appetite for information about the game and have been playing it on and off since beta. Even despite that, I've never had the time, commitment, or perhaps disposition to be a "top player." My assertion is that with a little knowledge, Kingsmarch benefits casual players much more than it does the core players or top players, as does any time-gated reward, so long as the investment to achieve it is not asking too much.
I don't think the gold investment to achieve full time farming is actually that prohibitive *once you know how to farm gold.* It's a skill that takes some time to learn, but it's not that difficult: it's not like learning how to recombinate items well.
@@sirgog That's roughly where I'm at. I can do all but the most juiced t16s comfortably, but only have time for 10-20 on an average play session. I can do t17s but am averaging about 1 death per map despite filtering out most of the nasty/profitable mods from my rolls, and with enough of a slow down I'm not convinced it's worth doing other than as a challenge to build my skills up.
I sent my first 50m shipment a bit over a month ago, and have sent 2 more since. Pursuing 50m shipments is really squeezing me though, before shipping was solved and I was running an 8-10k/hour farm and sending 700k divine fishing boats kingsmarch was much more relaxing since I didn't have to worry as much about my gold income. Now if I have a short play session or what I try just isn't very gold efficient I'm not farming the entire time I'm offline, never mind running a team of mappers. In that mode I didn't really care if top level players were sending 3-4x as many boats as I was, because they were probably also getting 10-50x as much loot from regular mapping too. The payout from the big shipments was too much to ignore, they've been roughly half my net income over the last month.
i personally really liked kings march, but not the gold upkeep cost. It created some strong fomo and made me feel bad when i didnt have enough gold stored up as i was "wasting" time.
But the upgrading mechanics and the people managing i liked. and the currency exchange is such a big QoL, i only did like 2-3 trades outside of it (when doing bigger div-trades like 1 -> 1200 fusing orbs) or for items, everything outjside of that i just did via the exchange. so much better, so much time saved
The dense fosils point is solved by high quality bases, you can't risk a T1 30% quality base to recombinators, you would use denses + eldrich to craft. Recombinators is a ""cheap"" way to get your late game set
This was probably my favorite league of all time and I played heavily from launch to the Gauntlet AND it was my first ever league playing trade (I'm usually SSF). The currency market is amazing and fixes most of what I disliked about trade league. I would play trade again if the market stays, if not i go back to SSF. Kingsmarch was great and I'd love to see it go core and receive small updates in future patches. I think it is a mechanic with a lot of room to grow.
The way I see it - currency exchange and black market will stay as the only mechanics from settlers. But I also have hope that they expand on it and make a league of conquering wraeclast that works a bit like mappers, but they find only some basic stuff, while also finding boss encounters for players.
if only 1 feature will go core than it is without a doubt the currency exchange. It has made playing the game much pleasant. Now I get ignored only with equipment trades.
Get well soon!
GGG might have other usage plans for gold such as new league mechanics. Keeping Kingsmarch as it is puts a heavy strain on gold reservers, which would hurt those who are not juicers.
The best would be to incorporate "kingsmarch" into your hideout
hope you feel better soon man
Turning all the trash loot into something value in the form of gold and dust was brilliant.
Currency exchange going core is a no-brainer. I would be happy with all other aspects as well, but I could live without mining.
I'm not playing if there's no currency exchange.
Wish you a swift recovery gog
Perfect take pretty much imho. Great video. Sry to hear bout the back woes. Another thing about shipping vs faustus strategies is that the majority of players seem to basically hate faustus money making shenanigans which is just yet another reason shipping etc will surely stay, or like you said maybe new gold uses are added (my money is on at least some gold sinks staying). Will be very interested to see an analysis on atlas runners being better per gold spent than shipping since at first glance they seem pretty bad
I want it to go core. It was the best league in years for me.
Ive heard you out and im unconvinced all of 3.25 needs to go core. Fautus is the only thing i need, gold costs for individual currency exchanges and gold drops can be fine tuned. Considering how wild the economy has been in the past i dont see why this would be an issue. And standard has always been disregarded. It's forever a losing battle against a zimbabwe-level economy over there.
I found settlers a boring mechanic. Probably my least favorite mechanic since Blight. It was dull and encouraged FOMO. I would be happy to see nothing sans Faustus go core, but if it all did, i'd ignore it as much as possible. The problem for me in the latter scenario is if they balance gold around settlers existing. It would feel shitty to have a mechanic i have no interest in delving in impacting something i need to engage in on a constant basis. The game has largely avoided this up until now, content is pretty well siloed.
I don't think GGG can remove Faustus' trade without massive backlash and I'm sure they were aware of this going into the league. The rest, they can cut/keep and wouldn't have a major impact on the playerbase imo.
Personally, I hope they keep the disenchanting/shipping in some way, it was great to combat inflation and keep normally low-value uniques at decent price throughout the league. Kinda reminds me of Runescape's Invention skill (disassebling items for components then crafting with those), I kinda wonder if they could take it a step further, disassembling items for straight currency or new fragments of some kind.
Honestly, 3.26 could just be Kingsmarch 2.0 and I'd love it. Let us build our own Grand Arena and host ToTA!
Get well soon
I hope so, love everything about Kingsmarch.
On the fence about Dust though, probably something that isn't needed. If Dust sticks around, I want to cook my Uniques through Rog in my Hideout instead of travelling to Kingsmarch.
Biggest change I want is how gold is earned, since you can't really engage with the mechanic if you play content that doesn't give any good amount of gold, like Sanctum and Heist.
My guess is they'll keep Faustus for exchange and black market, and recombs (+ disenchanter to account for the dust) and the rest would just be borrowed power for this league only (except if they want to keep tattoos core, in which case they'll need to keep boats, or find a new way to get them from 3.26 onwards). It would also get rid of the need to have the "ores" encounters in maps be distributed with other game mechanics.
Although from a lore perspective, we already know that Kingsmarch still exists a few decades later, so it would be reasonable to have the town stay in PoE 1 now that it's been built.
they will just move tattoos to a new source, like they did with settlers league.
OKay I watched the video... one point that I think is a compelling reason to keep Kingsmarch (all of it going core with minor tweaks) is that it is great both in trade AND in SSF... I felt like it made more builds viable and gave more power to a build through runes and the black market (and crafting currency from ships) allowing you to grind things you need sooner and faster and safer (if SSF hardcore). The ships were great for getting uniques as well. I found Kingsmarch to be very helpful when participating in the Gauntlet. I didn't spend time upgrading or investing in aspects of kingsmarch that I didn't need or didn't have time to get to. Utilizing Kingsmarch during gauntlet (and another SSF hardcore private league tournament I did) was really interesting and eye opening about how people can use kingsmarch in the future leagues if it goes core. It just made me realize how I should have used kingsmarch in trade league even... ultimately the point is that kingsmarch, gives a lot of flexibility with builds in what you have to do (often I am playing a build and it isn't good at a league mechanic that I need something from... and there is a means to get the same items from kingsmarch ships or blackmarket. Even just currency from chips... you can get currency from Tujen and expedition, but if your build isn't good at expedition or you don't like expedition you can do ships... you also can get currency from red alters... but that is end game... expedition is end game... ship allow you to make currency during the campaign without a ton of time sink or overhead and even offline... BUT part of my point is that maybe you do ships during the campaign to build up currency which is more RNG, and then do expedition/Tujen at end game because you have more choice in what you get... in SSF you can use black market early, ROG at the start of maps and atlas unlock and then other crafting methods at end-end game. IDK, kingsmarch just fit into trade league and SSF so beautifully. Runes, recombinators, tattoos and totems, dust (giving duplicate or useless uniques a purpose), same with maps for map runners (first league where I don't have a zillion maps) ... these things need a place in the game and kingsmarch is a great place for them to land AND can be expanded to accommodate other futue league mechanics or rewards that don't have a place to fit in.
I feel safer about your guesses than most other people's facts
Man, as someone who really enjoyed Heist League, but really hates doing Heist now, I hope they seriously pare down Kingsmarch. I don't want to have to farm up metals & gold to upgrade a bunch of different subsystems just to have something to spend my metals and gold on. I don't want to have to play hiring manager in 3.26. I'd be happy to just invest raw gold into a shipment, and come back in an hour or whatever to a pile of basic currency. IMO, the metals should be icing on the cake for Kingsmarch; maybe those boost gold returns, or tweak the shipment drop tables, or keep them somewhat similar and have them drop well-rolled rares or whatever, but the basic mechanic should just turn gold into currency with as few steps as possible.
I just can't go back without the currency exchange. Yes I am spoiled, but that feature alone make 3.25 the best league ever in my eyes.
Have you lost some weight? Lookin good sir! Sorry to hear about your back, hope you get better soon
Lol I've never heard the RMT AH referred to as "Pay-to-Cheat," but it's definitely accurate.
It's insane to me how many people want the full Kingsmarch package. Most of it is borrowed power that we know won't go core. The only thing that deserves to stay is the currency exchange. The currency exchange alone more than doubled my playtime from past leagues.
Absolutely not. Specifically, the town with mobile game-esque "Daily" quests (shipments,runners etc) with fear of missing out if you are not playing every day, should not be in the core POE experience. IMO.
Faustus is mandatory to stay. The rest of Kingsmarch was fun, but I don't want to do it again and you're going to be forced to do it if it stays in the game since loot has shifted to shipping/mapping/farming. I like your 5th option, keep Faustus and add a new gold sink mechanic.
The only thing I care about is Faustus. If 3.26 doesn’t have the currency market and I have to whisper many people again, hoping for a bot to answer, just for consumables, I would probably get discouraged super fast.
Not really a big fan of Kingsmarch past a league mechanic, as I don't like feeling like I am basically up shit creek if I don't spend a lot of time farming for gold for mappers, dust, shipments etc.
I would like gold to have be implemented into the game with the main use case being for the currency exchange.
Excess gold can be used elsewhere (such as Faustus gambling) that is valuable enough in large stockpiles to gamble big, otherwise just use it for trade.
Personally, I think 3.25 runes and tradehouse were a huge W. The dock is a bit of a side mechanic that I wouldn't mind keeping or missing either way. The portal mechanic I didn't even use at some point it was a massive goldsink without any reward I couldn't just get myself in 10 minutes. Recombinators were apparently really good after all people say??? If they add it back I'm gonna leave it on cooldown for a league to be sure it's actually in, because I'm not getting harvest baited again into learning a new crafting mechanic for nothing, considering how much time it takes me to learn new crafting mechanics.
Gold, Faustus and Faustus black market can go core without Kingsmarch with no problem at all.
Suppose Kingsmarch currently represents 95% of all gold spent by players. Just nerf gold drop by 95% (which is anyway good for our screen clutter), lower respec cost the same amount so it's not affected, and that's it.
The faustus opportunity cost stays the same. The amount of friction of people wanting to abuse Faustus will be the same. Faustus black market stays the same / doesn't become overpowered.
There's 2 options:
1) Slight rebalancing of the town for not having the ores as accessible.
2) faustus and gold core, they did say they were implemented with a separation being possible.
Imo the whole town going core in a shrunk way is the most likely, everything about it is popular afaik, and it's a great way for people who don't play a lot but play regularly (i.e. 30 min to an hour a day) to get some rewards.
Kind of enjoy mappers.. It's nice having a sink for all those extra maps other than just selling them in bulk, and that also increases the value of bulk sold maps for those who enjoy doing that. Only things I really don't like about it is the gold cost (too high compared to benefits obtained imo), the micromanagement of it, and re-buying mappers.
This might sound counter-intuitive, but I wish it took longer for the mappers to get through the maps.. I it feels like a tedious chore filling it back up and wading through the loot. Perhaps they should consider condensing the loot from the maps a bit also or restricting it to currency/big ticket drops? Or maybe I should just get more comfortable with tossing things in the trash :)
One thing that I absolutely loathe in games are "forced" login mechanics or high degrees of F.O.M.O.. What I'd like to see, even more than the currency exchange, is to currently kill the FOMO element -- and thus looking at other ways to make sure the currency exchange doesn't cause more problems than it solves.
I'm sorry, what element is forcing you to log in?
@@JayM928POE shouldnt be using psychological tricks that mobile games use to keep players logging in every day. it's bad for the long term health of the game.
@@JayM928 He's referring to the various timers this league brought with it. Find a mine and free it? well, now wait for your miners to mine it. Sent a ship? wait a few hours for it to come back. Sent something to disenchant? Well, better go do some maps cause you're not getting your blue powder any time soon. That is if you didn't give all your maps to map runners to play the end game for you. Farming? more time. Everything other than trading and crafting is on a timer and creates the psychological impression of sub optimal play if you're not in town to start the next action the moment your previous orders just finished executing.
@@JayM928 Force is [obviously] a bad word choice. If you don't understand what I was trying to communicate then you're either trolling OR have such a different opinion of timers, needing to farm gold to keep things moving along, etc. that futher meaningful conversation is unlikely.
@@JayM928 Why does this have to be explained lol
If they remove the currency exchange without replacing it with something even better I will not be coming back to PoE. I have played thousands of hours, and always hated having to interact with the trade site and made like 10-20 transactions over the span of a hole league, and usually not selling more than a couple over very valuable items. That meant I could never follow a strategy that involved scarabs, or selling stuff like essences, so the game was reduce to semi-self-fund. So if I cannot buy essences, sell oils and life force etc. I will no longer play the game. Simple as that. Same goes for PoE 2, either it has proper trading or I will most likely abandon it after a playthough or two. Also I think they should make more items stackable and sellable, like unidentified maps, memories and other stuff that otherwise now just rots in the inventory. I would prefer at least unidentified uniques to be tradeable as well, but that is not a big deal.
I get it because Faustus is super convenient, and I really want the exchange to stay as well. However, as a prior D2 player (and thus not used to having any trading system, or many nice things in general for that matter), this perspective is hilarious. When I finally made the swap to PoE in 3.24 I was amazed by the convenience of the trade site. Sure, sometimes you have to message 20 people to get an answer - but selling is much easier than that, and compared to what I was used to I find the trade site to be incredibly convenient and easy to use.
@@Anthony0fFiremost people would give up long before they reach unanswered trade request NR 20.
If they remove it move to poe 2 which will have it.
@@AlucardNoir It doesn't even happen that often though. As long as you're trading for something 40c+, most of the time you get a response within like 3 tries. All I'm saying is I think there's a little exaggeration about "how bad" the trade site is; it's really not that bad for anyone with even an ounce of patience.
@@AlucardNoir That being said, for cheap items I'd agree it's pretty bad.
I am surprised you didnt touch gambling with gold at all. They could even make it possible to buy random divination cards.
Leave kingsmarch in as is, just put mining into delve. This way delve is more needed to unlock nodes for mining, to get that out of mapping and into another mechanic.
It really needs to go core so much better for currency exchange being added
As far as I'm concerned I can do without most of the Kingsmarch mechanics except for the Faustus currency-to-currency exchange and possibly the runesmithing table. For runesmithing I'd be fine with those crafts being rolled into the crafting table and have chaos, exalt, divine costs [as appropriate] to do the craft. As for Faustus I think a combination of two things would be most of what's needed ... 1. Limit the number of "new" orders you can have per hour to ten or so ... perhaps allowing for a player to repeat the same order would not count as a new order?? 2. Get rid of the currency-to-currency exchanges on trade site as I suspect you don't want to effectively have two different trade economies.
I would like to see mining, farming and ships go. Map runners rebalanced to fill ships role. To make gold have value: remove orbs of unmaking, gold and recipe only. map device uses gold. common scarabs and frags can be bought with gold (this has to be thought out well, but as a private league player I am bias for this), crafting bench has a gold cost.
This is my assumption:
- Keep Fausiltis
- Keep the minors and the ore but increase the Minor's salary considerably so they become the biggest gold sync.
- Keep the boat shipments and have the rewards changed so each type of ore is very different
-remove everything else
The idea behind the ore is that it's something with which you can interact in the maps, so you could have kingsmach scarabs, you could have nodes in the atlas tree making certain types of ores more prevalent, etc...
And the boat shipments could still trigger the boss encounter.
It'll be interesting to see how Kingsmarch goes core for sure. I think the trade market will go core in some form eventually once they are ready to implement gold into core game. So my own speculation is Fautus will be back in a near future league, not the next one due to time constraint and preparation, gold goes core and used for respec, trade market, buying unid gear from fautus, maybe recomb but nerfed cause it's too OP right now, everything else gone.
faustus isnt going anywhere. if they remove the exchange now, players will riot.
@@nyutrig Possible scenario is a bandaid trade market until they fully ready to bring Fautus, gold and kingsmarch core.
I recall them saying that they wanted kingsmarch league to be a testing ground for gold and its interaction with the game for when poe2 is launched i'd be very surprised if a new town to upgrade and send boats is not part of the base game in poe2
Also theres the GGG option: just nerfs gold massively effectively turning Faustus into a gold sink.
I wonder if Rog/Disenchanting could be free, but the dust generated replace gold as the currency for the other mechanics? The opportunity cost becomes the farming of items plus the disenchanting time. This would also eliminate gold and keep everything self-contained, plus allow throttling via disenchanting time and dust cost.
I think turn ships into a flat gold sink rather than using vegetables or metals, remove farming, mining, disenchanting and runesmithing. Make recombining flat gold cost as well. Leave Faustus as is, remove the ‘employees system. It would make kingsmarch pretty redundant, but as is it seems like it would be a time tax if left with as many management systems as it has right now. I expect they will dumb it down quite a lot.
This is my first league and I obtained a mageblood and lots more! Some would be attributed to Kingsmarch but Id say a majority would be learning solid in map farming strats. Im a dad gamer and will manage a few 50 mils but thats not the dominate way in making money, all seems pretty balanced!
I want Faustus and Gold to go core, and 1 Gold sink the Atlas Runners. And here's my reason for the Runners' "Singular focus": You can't take it because you don't want to destroy T17 cards. That's why T16 cards are accumulating like crazy in my Stash. Leaving a T16 card on the ground feels really bad, so I take it. Now when the Runners suck up cards and gold, for a small reward for my time spent on it. I agree with that. Keep in mind that I would normally get an Alt or 1C for my card by singular focus. If GGG goes down this path, they need to clearly communicate to the player base that this is a work in progress. If you have another gold sink in mind for the new league mechanic, you need to lower the gold cost for the runners, if there is no other sink, you need to increase it, and so on. It's a lot of work on the GGG site with constant rebalancing on ther site. But I want to a way to convert the maps I don't run into Mony, even if it's a very small amount.
YES YES YES!!!!(get rid of enchanting though kinda pointless - just use gold)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you, taht you can't bring faustus without a proper goldsink other trhan him.
But I for myself hope that kingsmarsh does not go core (even I liked it a lot as a league mechanic) but having constant real time events that trigger my fomo would kill the game enjoyment for me.
I think GGG would be able to make other non realtime goldsinks and rebalance gold drop rate to make faustus work without kingsmarch (and I hope they willl)
i just want Faustus core. i'm willing to gamble on whatever other changes they make being good or bad just like we gamble on the league mechanic every league, including whether the rest of Kingsmarch mechanics going core or not are each individually good or bad. they'll tweak those things over time like always and we'll end up somewhere good eventually... Faustus isn't like that though. Faustus is, as you said, on the level of keeping/removing loot filters and other systems i would call "critical infrastructure".
I so hope it goes core. It has to. It is a very successful added layer, and I almost feel like it would be a detriment if it was left out.
They need to get rid of Kingsmarch demanding upkeep for farmers, mappers, dust grind, etc. etc. Tedium of grinding gold to sustain the town should go.
I don't want system that works 24/7 and generates income passively in the game like farmers and to lesser degree mappers do now.
But Fausts or rather Currency Exhchange has to stay in the game. I am liking idea of gold being used for whatever gonna be current League mechanic in a different way. But that might be restricting design space.
If it goes core you can remove the atlas runners. Remove metals from maps. You get infinite metals than you can mine/smelt this allows more control in what you want to ship
Let's be honest, we like the rewards, faustest, recombination, BUT the micromanagement is not fun, the in map mechanic is not fun.
recombs also need to go.....its absolutly STUPID and op at the same time....Gauntlet was watching Ben sittin in kingsmarch recombing and altspamming for HOURS........giga STUPID
I'd say yes. Maybe some gold adjustment should be made and gold should be farmable in all mechanics. However, they may just keep Faust and hope gamba and respec are enough for gold sink. I want recombinators and mappers to be core too.
Kingsmarch was great and just needs a few tweaks. I don’t need the mechanic to rain gold in the dozens of thousands every map but some strats were clearly more dominant for gold maintenance. Tweak that plus stuff like heist and or delve to be more gold sustainable. Maybe also considering dropping the insane grind to max level things so it’s fun and not a chore feeling. Besides that, I was pretty ok with it. Feels like a lot of the haters don’t like the steady currency income messing with fixing costs they profit off of. Just my opinion tho
If they were to just introduce the trade market, I would limit the gold you can have based on account progression for the league. Something like a cap of 5k for act 1, adding 5k each act all the way to 50k for act 10. Once you get to maps, each "Bonus" objective completed adds 2.5k to your cap so with 151 maps you end up with a cap of around 425k.
Why though?
@@johntsiroyiannis1072 To stop bots mostly
@@trankhanhtuonghuynh212 aren't bots mostly stopped by forcing a gold bottleneck fast and often since they cannot procure gold at any meaningful rates like in the initial implementation this league?
Making it a 98% worse experience for everyone is going to help how exactly?
I want the exchange to go core... maybe the new weapon enchants(nerfed for balance ofc)... the rest... I don't want to go core.
in map mechanic I am fine with... if its the bismuth(visual clarity, etc...)
Yes definitely...we need the new trade feature
Faustus exchange is nice i want it to be improved upon and added to the core game, kingsmarch however i would absolutely hate if it went core. Kingsmarch feels like some mobile game made to ruin people who have addiction problems (i used to be like this) that feels forced to either just play a little more until their ship arrives or just grind abit more gold so they can farm while they sleep or even make them put an alarm in the middle of the night just so they can wake up loot the ship and send a new one. I think no league mechanic should have a timer like this it is terrible for players. I knew i was like this when i played games with similar mechanics and refused to interact with it but im sure you guys can relate to my points, how many of you stayed up 15-20 min extra to loot a boat and send a new one when you really should have gone to bed?
Can't agree more. I didn't mind the buildup too much [other than RNG looking for workers] but once everything is fully built the gold should be just a whisker more than "self-sufficient" so there isn't that piece of FOMO. In this case the "rewards" of mappers and/or shippers would be that they could offset the basic gold costs of the city and wouldn't return money per-se. HOWEVER we could keep disenchanters, recombinators, and runesmiths as "dust" may be the go-to-currency for these items?? Balancing would be a chore but perhaps all tier 1 uniques will now have value as opposed to an interesting bauble.
I have to say... I like kingsmarch a lot, and the thought of it going away because you can't log off the game seems pretty crappy. You don't have a drinking problem and we have to make alcohol illegal for everyone for you, too, do we?
I sympathize somewhat, but how do you NOT log on to other games that primarily focus on that, like mobile games? Should we make sure you don't have a phone, too?
@@JayM928 GGG has avoided this mobile game crap that games like Lost Ark have for this long, and it's for good reason.
maybe go play lost ark?
@@JayM928 I think GGG are allowed to make whatever decision they want, if they want kingsmarch to go core then it does i just think that morally it's abit shady since you are using FOMO to keep people playing. Its a tactic used by the mobile gaming industry and i think its a poison that i really hope never touches great games such as POE.
RE: Recombination
Instead of nerfing, or removing it, they could make it much more expensive to use (Gold, Dust)
I hope Kingsmarch/Faustus go Core AND new gold sinks are introduced for more friction.
probably? i dunno. i really liked it at first but i was getting tired of trying to maintain my kingsmarch by the end.
You don't HAVE to maintain the town if you are doing something else that you find more enjoyable
@@johntsiroyiannis1072 well missing out on where a good bit of my currency came from would have felt pretty bad too.
So while technically it’s optional, mentally i felt that I needed to do it.
@@valjohnson7112 In that case, i should bring to your attention all the value and wealth you are missing out on when not doing any one of the multiples of strats for multiples of ten div per hour if you are so keen on considering things that you are NOT doing.
@@valjohnson7112 There are tons of ways to make currency if that's what you want. Kingsmarch is one of them which you can choose to do or not to do. If you get informed on the rest of the multitude of ways and try some of them out, maybe you won't feel so bad or pidgeonholed towards something ever again.
oh i hated the timed fomo mobil game style of kingmarch.. more of a retention mechanic than fun.
If i could change that iId love to see it go core, since everything else it brought was great.
One scenario, which is unlikely but interesting is if they remove gold but not Kingsmarch or Faustus. Gathering metals to pay Faustus for trading would remove the gold FOMO and allow an atlas for hideout traders where they run to nodes, similar to delve nodes but without the delving. Thoughts?
Only the exchange should go core
could the black market be enough gold sync by itself? basically like D2
I'd be interested in a video regarding the merits of Standard
NO it should not go core. I don't know why people are coping on this so much. The one main reason is the amount of gold needed for this is too fucking high and it takes away from the gold drip and causes a problem with the auction house. If we didn't have 3.25 mechanics we'd have infinite gold to trade with.
Surely I'm not the only one that would HATE to have to level this mechanic every league. Fucking kill me
Yea this league fucking sucked you are not alone.
youre not the only one.
Honestly I'm all in favor of getting rid of gold entirely. IMHO it distorted the league, mapping, etc. too much to make sure that your main strats also gave you a reasonable gold income. If GGG refuses to drop gold then at least make Kingsmarch [once built up] just a whisker better than self-sufficient in terms of gold production so we don't have to deal with timers, running out of gold, etc. getting in the way of [more] fun things we'd rather be doing.
Only the shipping stuff was the only thing that got me devines last season but it took so much investment that I pretty much didn’t even touch kings match until late season when I really didn’t need it anymore
@@erutherford I don't think gold will be a problem if they get rid of kingsmarch. Unless you're buying alts... LOL
I think the biggest issue for it to go core now in any changed form, is that GGG might not think they have the resources needed atm to address the changes they might want to see, as POE2 seems to take a lot of work. But what solution they would prefer in that case between keep in for a league, or keep it out i don't know.
I hope they address that via delaying 3.26 as long as needed (they could run repeat events in the interim)
@@sirgog well I get that , but sometimes things like that need time to cook, to get to the bottom of whats right to do. If that's the case, I think the most safe thing to do, is to keep it in unchanged for another league but not establishing it as gone core yet. (kind of testing how tiresome the community will find the leveling of the town) But that off-cause depends on what they are giving us for 3.26 then
I hope they retune shipping and mappers and keep kingsmarch in. I will say, my brother is very casual as a player and hated kingsmarch as it felt like a chore to keep enough gold to keep things going so maybe make it a little more gold for base non juiced monsters but keep the juiced monsters roughly the same.
Wowow 30 minute Gog vid, what a gift! I really hope 3.25 doesn't go core, but the auction house is a welcome addition. Look after yourself!
exchange has to go core, but i would like to see a new feature such as ''player stores''. for instance, you search for an item on the trade website, click a link which opens a store tab in game which is the seller's public tab or tabs and you pick up your item and you can continue browsing their tab. this should have a ''locking'' mechanism to prevent 2 players from buying the same item. in conclusion, trading sucks 😢
My personal prediction of what will happen:
Recombinator and Auction House stay, this means disenchanter might stay as well.
Removal of Mining, Smelting, Farming, Shipments or a redesign.
Gold might stay or be reworked, i'd like to see ability to exchange heist markers and or expedition artifacts into gold.
Enchantments are borrowed power mechanic so no way we're keeping that. If we do it's gonna be severely nerfed for sure.
Oh of course Black Market Gambling would also stay as an additional Gold Sink. With fewer Gold Sings the gold drops would be severely reduced of course.
I think it would be kind of sad if the only thing that came from this league was a 2nd way to trade. Looks like i'm clearly the only one though :s
I already know how to use the trade site to find the items I want, the only thing the exchange did for me was give me a way to flip items for profit. If I wanted to buy bulk materials to actually play the game like scarabs for example, the exchange was often more expensive than the trade site (unless buying in bulk on trade and then it was about the same, at which point I don't really see the difference, you're saving a minute of your time maximum)
I've been reading people don't like feeling forced to map and actually play the game to interact with the mechanic for shipments and stuff, which to me sounds like hideout warrior crafter/flipper logic. The league mechanic in its entirety rewarded actually playing the game and I loved it :P (admittedly a few previous league mechanics were for some reason exempt from this i.e heist)
The currency exchange should absolutely stay but Kingsmarch in it's current iteration I really would not want it go core. Way too much busywork.
Hope not, except for the trade house