Ram Pump pt1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2011
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FINALLY DID IT! We built a ram pump and moved water up a ridge 55 feet +/- high to a poly tank! I started watching your channel back in 2011 while I was working as a flight attendant dreaming of having a working homestead. Fast forward to 2023 - we have a farm in Tn and needed water to the barn from the creek…and thanks to you and your great channel we have done it! No power? No problem… Gravity fed and pressurized 🎉Thanks Scott
Thats awesome! Congratulations.
Ten years later and this is still the best ram pump video on TH-cam
There are a lot of ram pump videos on the web, but this was by far the best that I've come across with respect to the actual engineering of a system. In fact it's the only video I've come across in the past few days that even attempts to discuss engineering a system! This should be at the very top of the youtube results for "ram pump". I very much appreciate the work that you've done in sharing it with the rest of us.
Hi Engineer! I love your explanations. I have a question.
I am lucky to have a fall of 40 feet over a distance of 150 feet at 1 cubic ft per second max on a seasonal spring. I am planning a series of 3 small dams partly to check erosion and partly to store water for ram pumps. To conserve waste water I would like to install a separate ram pump at each of the dams each delivering to a large earth tank 40 feet above the first ram pump for irrigation in our dry meditteranean climate. Because the flow varies widely in the wet season, I am thinking a flush and drain scheme on the dams would make it possible to use higher capacity ram pumps capturing virtually all the flow. That is, fill a dam close to overflow, flush to the ram which would run until it reached some lower level and so down the line.
Of course this means I would have to restart each ram pump when a dam fills to overflow and starts the flush. I would need a level monitoring system to know when a ram pump would need to be restarted or some automatic way to restart each ram pump.
It seems like a remote monitoring system could make managing the flow practical with some daily attention.
Have there been successful schemes use all of the flow and also to recapture the energy from the 'waste' water?
Excellent video. This really helped me with our installation. One point: the Clemson Cooperative Extension paper indicates the stand pipe should be 3 "pipe sizes" larger than the drive pipe and the supply line should be at least 1 "pipe size" larger. That's significantly different than the 2 and 3 "times" the drive pjpe ratios you mention. E.g. a stand pipe for a 1" pump = 2" (i.e. counting up pipe sizes 1 1/4, 1 1/2, 2). And the supply line could be 1 1/4". A 300 ft 1 1/4" supply line is a lot cheaper than a 2" one. According to your calcs a 1.5" pump would require a 3" supply line while the Clemson recommendation would allow a 2" one. Again Engineer 775....thanks for your contribution and help. This video was key to us watering our cows and chickens inexpensively now for 2 years.
finally someone that can just talk me through it so I can understand. Very clear, step by step calculation that a layman can follow. Thank you!!!
I had a family member in Indiana who built one of these out of an old drive shaft and an engine valve. It pumped water from his spring up to the cistern beside his house. It only delivered about 1/2 gallon an hour, but it met all their household needs AND allowed them to "soak" the garden when everyone else's garden was burning up in the summer. Great post, thank you! :)
Les, (the other half of the lovely lady to the left) says: Firstly, I am very grateful I came across your video while searching for a good way of building a telescopic, extending and retracting hydraulic arm about 10 Meters in length for a project I am busy with at the moment. It reminded me of the Williamson Hydraulic Ram my Grand father had on his farm when I was a kid. Thanks for the loan of your Facebook page doll. Your doll, Les
DRIVE PIPE - The Pressure Wave in plastic pipe is considerably much slower. The sonic velocity is also the speed at which the Pressure Wave generated by water hammer travel in the pipe. For water in steel pipes the sonic speed could be as high as 1,480 m/s. But in some plastic pipe the wave speed can be lower than 200 m/s. That's a 86% loss of wave speed in a plastic pipe vs. steel pipe.
Thomas Dutkiewicz
Incredible. I'm 61 and have never heard of this before. I saw someone on youtube who successfully built this E775 and heard your name, AGAIN. Thank you, I have an old cabin that needs water from a creek. This is perfect.
I watched Wranglerstar build this pump. He credits you for your help and so shall I. Thank you for helping all of us.
He said " D is given per minute so if we need to find how many in a day we multiply by 1440 " implying that there's 1440 minutes in a day, so dude no reason to be a stickler, and make your self seem smarter than your really are. Mr.Engineer you did great on the video.
Thumbs Up
P.S If your not familiar with unit conversion with all of the online calculators we have bombarding the internet you probably shouldn't be watching how to make a pump from scratch and go buy one.
Best vid I've seen on the science of ram pumps , cheers
Thank you very much! You have explained very detail. This I need. I have asked so many people but no one answers my questions.
Just viewed this old video and it is here that I truly understand everything about how tos with ram pump. Thank you so much!
@dougdobbs That's great! There are so many ways to build a ram and using one to pump from a spring is the best of both worlds. Pumping Potable water without electricity!
My guess is yes, but you would figure the fall from the level of water in the pond, not from the height of the dam.
LOL! It is right next to the nile river , they did not need to elevate the whole nile. Possible means of pumping the water to the location are illustrated in a book called "Pyramids on Water , Floating Stones (The Wonder is in Man)" by Istvan Soros. The nile was also likely much higher then as well, all the way up to the sphinx when it flooded.
first id like to comment that i luv all ur vids and have been a subscriber for many years.
2nd id like to say that ur the only 1 who talks about the math... ty very much.
... im thinking that my gal per min with the drag coefficient would not allow for this. putting my thumb on the end of the line can stop the flow. but i dont need much. im just filling a water tote inside my house on the upper lvl(18ft high). i mught use about 10 gal a day. so if i can get that id be happy. if more then id have an overflow to the outside. my water source is an artisan well 600 ft from the house. top of well is 12 high from the ground lvl at the house. its 3/4 black poly in ground, to a yard hydrant (@550 ft from well) then 50 ft to the house. im off grid and power to the well to run a well pump is near impossible. its in a mature mountain forest. i do use a pump in the house for hot showers but i find that all my other water needs come from the tote on the upper lvl. i
m trying to get al my water needs without power draw on my solar.
Thanks from Caucasus to engineer775:)
Thanks for the detail, interesting! Your channel is very informative.
Your video's are the most informative video out here!
Thank you for making these videos, it is very appreciated.
thank you for an excellent tutorial. love all your vids! we are building our ram now for an off grid homestead. Do you have another formula for calculating elevation, distance and friction? we have good fall, the elevation is not overly great, but the distance is. Probably close to 800 ft I think. Also, if I want to depend on this year round in Northern applications, do you think a well house over the pump would be adequate? With buried delivery pipes?
thanks much
Excellent explanation. I really enjoy it. Thank you for sharing your know-how. You know how to teach with simpllicity. Kudos!
Great vid. Thanks for laying it out on the board. Thumbs up!
Great video. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge! Currently, I only have between 2-3 of fall between my water source and where I can place the ram. I only need to fill a few 55 gal drums to provide drip irrigation for a small garden. Drums would be approx 10 feet above the ram. Will my current fall allow this scenario to work? Thanks much!
@GoatHollow The relationship between fall and drive pipe length has been found empirically over that last 200 years of experimentation. The goal is to maximize pressure at the waste valve, maximize the momentum of the water coming to the pump. As the fall increases so does the potential energy and the acceleration of the water. It is a complicated little problem to model as it is affected by material elasticity, acoustic wave speed and pipe size etc. The empirical tables have worked well!
Excellent video, looking forward to the video on pumps for deeper wells 100' or more.
@jplerwill I do have a feedback line from my tank as it greatly reduce the amount of algae. So whether I am pumping with solar or ram or both I have a continual cycling of the water. In order to do hydro you need a lot more water than the rams can supply. My calculations tell me it is not a good use of resources. You could cun for short stretches of time maybe to charge a battery but the amount of for a peltier turbine far exceeds what I can pump. Thanks for asking!
Love this guy great video, thank you so much
Best explanation ever , thank you, you are the Boss man.
Any questions...LOL Clear as mud man....no really this is great instruction, I'm looking forward to part 2.
Once upon a time I subbed your channel but me being stuck in the city it wasn't relevant. Then saw you on Netflix - America Unplugged - showing us your ram pump. Will one day return to the country.
Great class!!!!! Thank you :)
@trenttyre Thanks! I will explain the 1440 in Pt2. Nice to have another engineer keeping me straight!
Im just a simple plumber rather than an engineer, but this all made great sense to me. Thank you for the great info. Do you only use swing checks, rather than regulating springs?
Thank you for this very good vid. I will be able to eliminate lots of mistakes and get a good result.
@SmutFi No the ram won't stop and you will have to have a place for overflow or return it to the source. That is what I do after my 1600 gal tank is full. Starting and stopping the ram is no big deal either. Take care!
Thank you sir for this great information, our place need this kind! im just curious how about the source is 200mts from the possible location of the Ram Pump, instead of stand pipe, could it be a reservoir?
Great info Bro, thanx!
Wrangler star sent me! Great series of videos.
excellent.......added to favs.......will vid response today my friend
Hi, Can you tell me the name of the surveying device you used in one of your ram pump videos, great stuff, cheers.
Thank you so much for your explanation video .
Do you use a feedback line so that cycling flow is constant through tank, seems that way you would always have cooler or fresher water at the tank location. Depending on the circumstances it would seem that you could add a miro hydor to that system as well and provide an additional 24 7 500 to 1k watt power with very little friction loss.
Can your drive pipe be a larger diameter than your ram? I am trying to piece something together with materials that I already have but I don't want to get to far ahead of myself if this is not going to work. Thanks for your time and effort, I really appreciate your videos, they are very helpful. cheers.
you could also use the water in a water tower to lift very heavy objects. If you put two large tripods beside a huge boulder, attached lines from the boulder to and through a pulley at the top of the tripods and have these lines connected to large tanks, then all you would have to do is fill the tanks with water, as they filled they would equal, and then exceed the weight of the object and it would rise. Let a little water out of one and fill the other with more and you would move it to the side
@Derf2258 If the fall is up to 15' multiply by 6 - in the video I used 10' as an example and therefore the drive pipe would be 60' , if is was 15 then yes it would be 90. I wrote 10 on the board but it was pretty small. I need to write larger for the videos to follow! Thanks for your comment.
Will it work with a aquaponics system using a 275 gallon ibc tote for a sump and a another 275 gallon tote fish tank. ?
great video, great video series actually. I especially appreciate the formulae and science presented here for tech heads similar to myself.
My question to you is; can a reliable pump be constructed without using metal?
I want to use a RAM pump in aquaponics, but the metal, especially copper (brass) is toxic to the fish and beneficial bacteria. I see many applications with pvc, and some with one plastic pvc one-way valve, but there is always at least one brass (metal) gate valve. Does the stress on the waste valve or the check valve, prohibit practical consideration of circumventing a metal valve? Thank you for your reply
Does the geometry of the air lock have any affect on the operation? So If I were to use a thin long pipe for the ram, then the surface area of the water compressing the air lock is less. This would mean more pressure per unit of area so more force. Then the compression would be greater in a linear direction? So the spring effect might be exaggerated?? The quantity of water pushed could be equivalent due to a longer ram?
Curious to know if there is an advantage to using the flapper valves as opposed to ball checks.
hae, how about pumping water from an artesian well?
or a well in general? thanks for spending your time for this great demonsration
Input divided by output (in GPM) will give you the efficiency of a completed ram pump system. Much guess work is required before completion though. Run the calculations for your particular minimums and maximums to find the worst and best case scenario.
V and D are the flow rate (m^3/sec) like to say in the international units
Q1*(h1/h2)*0.6=Q2 ... and doest the Efficiency is sth constant 0.6 for this pump or it is changeable according to the discharging valve stabilizer .... and is there any video solving a case of ram pumps using international units
thanks
Hey 775, can I use a high volume river to produce my intake pressure in a very short intake run, say three or four feet to start the process? I'm thinking yes but just watched your video and thought I would ask.
anyone else say "poor fish" when he explained that one got sucked in and got extruded?lol
If the Great pyramid was a ram pump then the waste valve could have been right outside the subterranean chamber, the wellshaft would have been the delivery line, the grand gallery would have been the pressure chamber and the ascending corridor would have acted like a stand pipe, if it had been separated from the Grand gallery. If the complex was a combination of a trompe and a ram then compressed air could have been fed into the King's chamber to pump the water up from there.
Thank you!
do you think you could rig up a small version to work with hydroponics or aquaponics?
@jplerwill I use the spring checks for their simplicity and that you can adjust the amount of water easily which I will show in next video.
water was not more valuable than gold, there was plenty of it. It only required effort to get it to the site.The subterranean chamber is 150ft below the point where the water entered the pyramid at the descending corridor. a column of water that rises 150ft can compress air to about 64 psi. Air at 64 psi, channeled into a chamber anywhere up in the pyramid can raise water 150 ft higher from that chamber. The shafts from the queen's chamber come to a dead end just short of this height.
Hello there. I have a situation where the garden i work on is quite elevated compared to the river bank. So i'm curious to ask if it would work if we had no downward drive pipe and just a pipe that goes directly into the river. Do you think that it would be enough velocity to raise the water around 7-8 meters high? The river is fast flowing most of the year.
I like it, It's free energy thank so much
thanks for this video, so, what will happen if my only source of water is a deep well maybe 90ft deep, is it possible to use a ram pump there, since av seen in your video that a ram pump is placed somewhere down below the water source?
thanks soo much for your time,,
So, first you need to find a river that has a downhill slope like a hill descending to a lowland or a downhill water somehow should you go upstairs?
What is best for a ram pump size? Difference in 1 14" and 1 1/2"?
I love your tutorial about ram pumps and you love research and detail. I am not that smart but I see a guy really into the tech part and it's what people need the truth behind it.
Please let me know which size is best before I buy parts. The 1 1/2" parts a cheaper than the 1 1/4" in most parts.
Thank you for any reply
I m v happy to your work
I have listened, watched and taken notes numerous times on this video so forgive me if the answer to my question is here and I'm not seeing it. I am wanting to build a ram pump for a particular spring that I have. I have determined the flow rate of this spring, however what I fail to be able to glean from your excellent material is how to physically size the pump inlet or outlet or both(1/2"or 3/4"or 1"or 1 1/4",etc) for my spring such that it does not run out of water and at the same time utilizes a very large majority of the available water flowing out of the spring. I know that you have said that the ratio of the inlet line (drive pipe ) to the delivery line is 2:1 ratio. Is there a formula or table that you can share with me and others that may have my same question. Thanks in advance for this answer as well as all your other good work.
Very detailed explanation have listened and learned a lot. This will greatly help my advocacy of helping indigenous upland farmers. My question is: is it possible to transfer water from a spring with decent amount of supply to about 1/2 mile distance and about 20 meters elevation? Thanks a lot for any comments & recommendations. God bless u.
Thank you
Hi there Engineer775, how long does the drive pipe for the ramp pump have to be?
In your opening statement you said that you would show how to install and build a ram pump.I saw the install part but did not see the build the ram pump part. Is it hidden somewhere else?
Inspired! so I have a fish/plant system (aquaponic). I pump water up 3-4 feet and drain back to fill the sump. I need to pump water to 6feet to water some towers. is this possible to do with a ram. my flow is 3-5 gal/min.
Hi
is it ok to join a second delivery pipe to the main delivery pipe to increase water source to a generator as will need use a second source to top up main delivery during dry weather
paul
can you connect a large and small ram pump in series to get more pressure for lift?
About my previous post..... I was thinking that the nozzle would be powerful like a power sprayer. Not as high PSI as 2700 Power Sprayer but 400 PSI is more than city water. What do you think? I am hoping I can build PSI and thus build power to spray the Pelton wheel.
Should the drive pipe be a steel pipe or can it be a pvc?
Could you use a tank to feed the pump? And then from the pump both output and supposed waste water is ran up to another tank that feeds the original tank?
Thank you so much sir for enlighten us very helpful...thank u
engineer775,how can i compute for the efficiency of a ram pump?
Thanks...
Ok, i've got a 65' dug well next to the dairy barn with a water level about 25-35 feet down. On a drought year it's down 50 feet. Will this ram pump method work there too?
Is it possible to use a ram pump in a large system, to pump water with more velocity over a hill? Of course the drive line is very long. The water only needs to get over a hill and then will flow downhill towards a storage tank.
just wondering if you where to place this pump at the bottom of a dug well thats 4 feet wide and 20+ feet deep would it pump ?yes i know i would have to overcome the air tank bouancy but you would still get a head pressure just have to run the check over water level
Do you know if a ram pump can work in the following scenario? A 45gal drum of water on a 15foot ledge drops it's water straight down througj a copper hose connected to a ram pump. Would it be enough to have the pump bring it back up into the 45gal again?
Engineer, did I miss something? You said at the delivery pipe one can use lastic. Are you intimating that the suply pipe needs to be metal and therefore rigid? Or did you say that and I keep missing it? Sorry, and thank you in advance for your help. I use a ram, have for years, but this last two years, I've have had less water flow in the winter, which is when I am able to pump. So, I need to modify, and want to make sure I understand all the implications first.
Bernoulli's Equation: P1/specific weight + Z1 + (V1^2)/2g + hA - hL - hR = P2/specific weight + Z2 + (V2^2)/2g
Solve for hA.
Will a Ram Pump work if it is built with a !/2 inch drive pipe and 1/2 inch fittings and 1/2 inch check valves? I don't have enough water to run my 1 inch Ram. I am getting about 1 gallon every 1.5 minutes.
V is the volumetric flow rate through the drive pipe, not the flow rate of the stream, therefore one may change V by changing the diameter of the drive pipe. At 12:00 of the video, you say that you can't change the source rate, but you can increase or decrease the source rate by changing the size of the piping. Sorry to get technical, but it's true.
Agreed. Did I say stream? You do have to figure out the flow rate of the source though first.
I have a long!!! 2in black poly drive and it runs fine. mine also has a 2in check and a 1 / 1/2 check valves then 3/4 poly going up to my garden.
hi there!..could you tell more on how to make a stand pipe?tnx
The Art of Ram Pumping !
Hallo Engineer775 , I need to know if my ram pump will work if the delivery pipe is already installed as a 50mm black pipe ( currently being driven by a submersible pump ) .I will T into it from the delivery of the ram . What is the minimum drive pipe and valve sizes that can be used ? Regards Fred
If this was with metric units, i would be so happy!
What material should both the drive pipe and supply pipe be made from?
Can all material beade from pvc?
Im wondering if i have a source and distance, can i drive to water to a tank 20-30 feet then use that supply to drive a turbine and then use that discharge into another ram system to another storage for gardening?
WRONG!!!
oh my gosh I'm kidding, excellent useful information all introduced so that people with dirty hands can avoid wasting time. Thank you sir, a farm I work at has several irrigation ponds with electric pumps. I'm thinking the system there can be modified so a ram spills into pond (accomplishing the current goal) and pushes into the existing delivery system but all day long mind you so as to supplement the electric pumps that are there if needed. Hell there's a supply feeding the ponds I should be able to math on and cut some power use. Maybe even most of it.
Question: The diameter of the pumps is mentioned to be 1 2 and 3 or 2 3 and 4.
If making similar system on bigger scale, diameters should not be like 5 cm 10 cm and 15 cm but 5 cm 7 cm and 9 cm?
I was wondering I am going to make a 2" ram pump from your design..i was gonna make 10' fall/drop from Suply to pump..
Do you think I can run a 1000-3000 watt hydro generator with a peloton wheel with just psi from pump?
Or do you think I need to run water from pump to a 1100 gallon container that I can elevate up a hill and a additional 10 ft..total of 25ft.
Can you determine the maximum pressure generated by the ram pump?