Sup rouga got a survival challenge for you. So what do you think about an SCP survival challenge. Like if you picked a few survivors and made them D class in SCP containment breach and saw if they could escape. Love your vids man keep em coming
I would assume that orbital railcannon would pierce astartes right through tho And its aim time is quite fast, just gotta make sure there arent any other large objects around Alternatively try snipe with normal railgun through their lenses
@@skell6134honestly, it’s funny you say that. The heavy mg they just downplayed was updated because people were complaining so hard, so it actually is a heavy armor destroyer in the game. That means it wouldn’t go through all the armor, but it can go through some of it and has one of the faster fire rates in the game. Spraying a full mag at a marine would probably deal significant damage in the most ridiculous way.
I mean it's also for balance, helldivers would all be dead before they even fired a shot most likely. Good luck even having time to input your orbital railcannon strike - you have 0.004 seconds before your head explodes.
@MyopicPowerhouse Space marines don’t move at light speed. BUT it actually could he true since heavy bolter shoots 250 bolts per minute and if we assume helldivers are all wearing medium or scout armor and are all standing in ONE place, it would actually kill them fast enough. So yeah, spacemarines definitely have the advantage if every single diver stands in one place and is too busy with stratagems.
Just need to put this out there. Dreadnoughts aren't mechs. No space marine can pilot a Dreadnought. Dreadnoughts are only piloted by marines that are very very close to death (think mortally injured or so old they can't fight anymore). Their near corpse body is hooked into the inside of a Dreadnought permanently. You don't pilot a Dreadnought, you 'become' a Dreadnought. This doesn't really affect the conversation much, but I think it's cool
You're a little wrong there. The Marine is placed inside a coffin that's then hooked up to the dreadnought. The coffin can freely be removed as needed for repairs or to replace a dead Marine who was piloting it
I think the OP was talking about the armor extensions of space marines from some chapters that look like a dreadnought. Basically like a hulkbuster thing
I thought about that to then remembered that is their specialty. If he had the helldivers fight Raven Guard they would have probably snuck around them like the Grinch was sneaking around Who-ville.
23:12 General Brasch has millions of shields generators completely invulnerable to melee strikes, reserved to him and 10-star generals, which distribution center mistakenly sent to every single helldiver. Yes this is in the lore
@@ArmadilloJohn imagine imperialism with a sprinkle of socialism and EVERYONE loves the first amendment, if you enjoy getting chased by letal shit while dropping suns on them, you would like the game
@@ArmadilloJohn the thing is that devs are having fun doing the lore. Last pach fixed the bug preventing talking to a girl on supper destroyer, wivh has been commented in pach notes as: "she does no longer moan the loss of her favourite goldfish, Goldie. Goldie has been cremated and shot into the orbit of nearest planet. Thanks for your service, Goldie"
Helldivers aren’t socialist. They went to war with the Automotons due to them being socialist (well that’s the story Super Earth told us). Super Earth is suppose to be SUPER Capitalist.
Few corrections 1: Helldivers do not join at age 7, they recruit at age 18. Super earth has legalized child labor but not child soldiers 2: The helldivers and the SEAF are two separate branches that recruit separately 3: Kids are given a gun at age 16 not 10 4: The bolter uses a hybrid system, it uses a gunpowder like propulsion system first, and the gas kicks in on a delay after it leaves the barrel 5: The autocannon, based on my own guess from looking at the rounds, is more likely a 30mm round that can come in explosive and flack 6: Autocannons are actually real, we use them on the Bradly 7: Orbital Lasers don't phase through things 8: The mechs are the Emancipator and the Patriot 9: The armor that absorbs all light won't make you invisible, it'll make you a weird black blotch Outside of that you clearly did your research and the ministry of truth approves. Good video!
@@dukeynukey6725 if my memory serves they don't join a 7 but they go to military school to jump start training. Something like the Spartans. You a soldier?
@@dukeynukey6725 Super Earth has its war culture built in to everything. They are a war society. I think they would replace Boy Scouts with training camps
the armor of the helldivers can make them a black blotch but the space marines have fought worse for example lictors which are tyranids that have Chameleonic Skin the bends light to perfectly match the background and are ambush warriors.
would last only until the government of super-earth decides that the imperium could use managed democracy. Which relies on an AI... yeah I dont think they would like eachother very much
@@marrowseer0881 no they wouldn't. that's black templars and even then they realize they can't expect the same faith from their comrades. The vast majority of space marines do not think the emperor is a god or even someone to worship.
Some corrections here. Every Marine has time in the Scout company as a Sniper, time as a Assault Marine close quarters, time as a Devestator so heavy weapons and then to the tactical company to learn flexibility. They are by nature multi tools, once they are a full battle brother and become a Sergeant they are sent back to what they are best at to lead others. Even tactical Marines with Stalker Bolters hit targets at 2 kilometers pinpoint shots. The snipers are hitting targets 3-5 kilometers normally. And any brother who gets to injured to be fixed is put in a Dreadnought to fight on till death. Also every Marine spends time on the Vehicles as well so they are like SF where they have specialty but can do everything.
I’m surprised astartes snipers can only shoot 3-5km. The best snipers now can shoot that distance. Also small correction, only the most honourable critically injured brothers are entombed in a drednaught. Like if their sacrifice lead to a decisive victory or something
@randomcarguy2543 the world record is just over 2 miles so 3.4-3.6km and those are records. Those are the minimal ranges for Astartes snipers as the 5 KM range is close to modern tank ranges.
@randomcarguy2543 for Dreadnoughts it's not just the most honored but if the Astartes just became one they will not put him in the Chassis as they are rare but if he has served for a decent amount of time he absolutely will be put in. For them not to save the Battle Brother he would have to be at the verge of death with no other option as missing limbs, damaged heart or lung they just replace them
Bolters are hybrid combustion and rocket propelled. The 2 step process of the bolter firing involves, step 1- the power/chemical combustion that ejects bullet at extreme speed. Step 2- the rocket in the bolt activate the instant the bolt exits the barrel, causing a secondary booming sound after the first chemical explosion, this prevents too much barrel damage due to pressure. This further increase in speed surpasses small rocket speed or chemical combustion bullet speed individually. That's the reason boltguns have such high recoil, and such penetration power. Bolters are also available in gas propelled variants, but that's only reserved for stealth missions as these one's are compatibly silent, but the common Godwyn patter bolter uses the 2 step process mentioned above. The explosion of the bolter is very loud, like a boom, showing its immense power of the propellent as well as the chemical combustion.
@COULY_GALLO01-yo6sg This is what a few minutes of searching led me too :- A Bolter works by firing a .75-.998 caliber rocket propelled grenade out of the barrel using gunpowder. Once the shell is out of the barrel, its rocket engines activate and accelerate it further towards the target. Please let me know where I could learn more about the bolter, I like the lore and try to know more about it.
I've seen what kills Space Marines, I have no doubt that Helldiver strategems can do the trick. The issue is the Space Marines standing sill long enough for the hit to land, and not utterly demolishing the divers with a bolter on contact.
The strategems have the ability to stick to a target, so if the helldivers chuck a bomb at them it will sitck to whatever part if them it hits and boom, their dead
Not only would most handheld support weapons be able to kill a space marine, pretty easily, but the space marines wouldn’t even be able to see what stratagem it is, could hit the deck and get behind cover for a resupply drop while the hell divers just leave in the car
The main thing is that the big beams from the stratagems wouldn't be visible to the Space Marines. At first at least, they'll likely just assume it's a grenade of some kind. And even if they did move due to correctly assuming it could harm them, if the helldiver called down an orbital railcannon strike, the space marine is fucked anyway because that shit is ultra hypersonic. That stratagems can also stick to living things. While the red stratagems in game don't follow the beacon after it lands, The blue and green ones brought by hellpods do. So if the helldiver stuck a hellpod-brought stratagem to a space marine's armor, that space marine is dead.
@Rdr2solos To be fair, this is also living under a couple assumptions. One is that they get hit in a way that the stratagem sticks. The next is them not reacting, realizing, and then removing the foreign object with optimal force and use. (Such as returning their own armament back at them or throwing it farther away.) Another would be assuming they don't close distance fast enough seeing as from my studies, a Space Marine (on average, not the named main character ones) can run between 43 - 50 mph. But, I do think that the Helldivers can overwhelm the Space Marines.
You're misunderstanding how the bolter rounds work: "As well as the rocket propellant, a small conventional charge is also utilised. This charge is strong enough to force the bolt out of the barrel at a significant muzzle velocity, and simultaneously ignite the bolt's propellant. The rocket-propellant is precisely fused to ignite immediately as the bolt leaves the barrel, alleviating any possibility of pressure build-up. The bolt then accelerates toward the target under its own power." This is described to be more like a rocket-assisted projectile. We use similar technology in howitzers and artillery in modern day warfare. Obviously these aren't lobbing M109 shells, but the delivery mechanism is different than a rocket launcher. One major difference between a howitzer RAP and a bolter round is that the bolter's rocket ignites immediately after leaving the barrel while a howitzer's round ignites its rockets about 7 seconds out to keep up its momentum. Also using IRL Ceramite for 40k Ceramite is a silly ass thing. IRL Ceramite is a specific brand of bauxite based ferroalloy. It's copyright date is 1 year after 40k was invented. Plus it's obscure a shit, and I think you're giving the GameDevs too much credit to even know about it. Like Plasteel it's to be treated as some Sci-Fi bullshit material. Which is not referring to the hot rod metal, but instead it's literally ripping off Plasteel from Dune without even changing the name. www.startupwala.com/trademarks-registration/search-CHENNAI-CERAMITE-500554 That said, I'm not going to argue that Helldivers can't penetrate their armor. Sisters of Battle are considered glass-cannons and they roll up in power armor. This is consistent with every media they are portrayed in too. They only reason they're not walking tanks like Space Marines is because they're not genetically modified super soldiers. Final comment: A handheld auspex scanners can detect enemies up to 1,500 KM, which still gives the Helldivers way better detection range. This does mean that Space Marines can detect them, perhaps far enough away before the firefight even begins. This still lets the Helldivers set the battlefield though. One thing to note, Helldivers' invisibility could be negated both by the auspex and built-in preysense goggles. Preysense goggles are thermal-vision goggles that detects anything with a heat signature. A standard Space Marine helmet has this technology built into it with a few additional settings that probably aren't really going to come into play too much. On the topic of the helmet, they have built-in auspex links that lets them directly relay information acquired from the auspex into their combat interface. So if one guy detects someone hiding in a bush, then everyone in the squad will be aware of that guy hiding in the bush.
Thank you. He severely undersells the bolter and uses materials from the 80s to describe the armor and weapons used in the 41 Millennia.... these guys literally travel through hyperspace, you think they're doing that with the tech we have now? You think they haven't invented a stronger form of steel alloy or plastic if you wanna say it's like the hotrod metal? You think they're putting concrete in their suits? It's just ridiculous that he'd try and compare tech that came out 30+ years ago. They've advanced with the materials they'd put on their absolute best of the best, the super soldiers, to send to combat....it's actively trying to shit on the Marines.
He doesn't even acknowledge that the Space marines can change their boltgun ammo types from anything from subsonic rounds, kraken armor piecing rounds, inferno napalm rounds, hellfire caustic bio acid rounds, they even have rounds that blow up before reaching the target to shred a group in front of it like a fucking claymore. I just think it's insane that the helldivers get any weapon and all the stratagems and 4 full squads of recruits. While the space marine gets bolt gun with standard ammo and he says that melee and melta guns are out of the question. So it's 3 space marines with standard bolt guns and ammo vs 20 hell divers with loadout drops and reinforcements and orbital strike capabilities. And he even gave the helldiver stealth armor, and not only did he discount the thermal that would negate it if it worked how he had described. But also if it worked like the way he described by absorbing all the light that hits them? They wouldn't be invisible and see through, they would be black silhouettes. It'd be like if you were completed covered in Vanta Black paint which is one of if not the absolute most light absorbing material we know of. The "invisible" he described would have to come from an active camouflage that would project the terrain that's behind you onto the front of you so don't block anything from or disrupt a view point
bolters do have an initial propelling charge but based on the size of a bolter round and most depictions there's no way it's going anywhere near the velocity of autocannon rounds. at most ~mach 1 and probably subsonic.
@@irregularguy6465 No and no. Based on the descriptions from the novels and literally all of the actual media, bolters are absolutely way stronger than Rouga is trying to portray it here.
They are similar in a lot of ways. Difference is the method of delivery and explosion size. Overall the Autocannon is stronger but the Bolter is fully automatic.
@@Steir12 i was wrong about it being created to fight humans during the great crusade because they existed since daot. However their purpose in the hands of space marines was originally to fight lighty armored humans, the overkill is the point.
So here's a sentence that turned into an essay for me. A lot of space marine equipment designs are repurposed from mining equipment blueprints that their superhuman physiology lets them use effectively in combat. People put waay too much stock in their equipment and sometimes not enough on their biology. Look up "transhuman dread" and you'll see that the games do the same thing as Halo does to Master Chief, they get nerfed for our little non-super brains. They have processing power well beyond any human brain and basically play with aim hacks. I really don't expect anyone to read all of 40k lore for a video, but the games nerf their feats while keeping their equipment kind of on point, and if we're going with cannon Helldivers, I think we should also use Cannon Space Marines. Still, I agree with your assessment. If the helldivers have their super carriers, then the marines get cooked in their armor with repeated napalm strikes while the Divers swarm around them, overwhelming them with mobility and semi-expendable numbers. The Marines wouldn't be massacred like you assumed, since they're physically faster and have better tactics than any human, but taking corners can be tough and eventually they will slip up, even if it takes a few hours and more than half Helldiver casualties. Sorry for the aneurism this probably caused. John Helldiver was one of the lost Primarchs confirmed!
I love these kind of corrections! I feel like just being in 40k as a whole nerfs tactical prowess some though. The dogma that each chapter so rigidly sticks to is really cool from a lore perspective, but these fuckers commonly live to see 50+ years of service, with many having hundreds. YOU HAVE TIME TO MASTER MANY STRATEGIES AND FORMS OF COMBAT, NOT JUST THE ONES THAT HONOR YOUR ABSENTEE DADDY AND DECEASED GRANDAD. Spamming your favorite strategy in every encounter and brute forcing the win through superior biology and the determination to sacrifice anything for the victory is not tactical mastery. I think most other sci-fi soldiers are more tactically capable than the forces of the imperium because they aren't blindingly loyal and obedient to the Big E, so they can think outside the box and change their tactics much more readily and drastically than any forces of the Imperium.
@@declicitous1763 Well shit I might have a new favorite Space Marine chapter. Right from their wiki "...have learned to adapt to changing circumstances so well that they have flourished where other Chapters would simply have had their names added to the ranks of the fallen." It's really the exception that proves the rule though. The vast majority of the Imperium of Man will disregard new ideas or ways of doing things.
@@williammell845 oh for sure, but they are definitely the gold standard for space marines, and show how deadly the imperium could be with actually capable leaders and stratagists instead of the glory seekers and zealots that are in charge
@@declicitous1763 Yeah, its kind of the whole point of the Imperium that it is capable of so much more, but it is locked in it's terrible situation by the hostility of the galaxy around it and the zealotry of people within it.
The Helldivers are actually quite similar to the Tau, another 40k faction. The Tau also avoid melee combat, have great small arms weapons and they also love mechs. They would probably be a much better match-up for the Helldivers, as the Tau fight like a modern army, while Space Marines fight like honorable knights/shrieking berserkers clad in futuristic power armor. 40k is basically a dark fantasy setting wearing a Sci-Fi disguise. There's even a joke about the Tau that every piece of art of them shows them losing, as if they were winning, the enemy would be 10 miles away.
The Helldivers would probably always have ranged advantage. They can easily reposition if need be and can be dropped in literally anywhere on a planet's surface in less than a minute. I think in all reality this is what would happen given the specified numbers: 1. Helldiver dies in Melee range since that's pretty much the go-to for ultramarines 2. The next guy that gets called in either crushes a marine with his hellpod or gets dropped in half a mile away 3A: Marine gets crushed by the 4 tons of steel dropping in from low orbit, helldiver gets killed instantly by the next marine 3B: Helldiver is far enough away to call in a stratagem on the marines, probably gets his friends killed while taking out the strike team with an orbital laser
Few key points: 1.) The standard Space Marine squad size is between five and ten tactical marines. Primaris Marines are normally deployed in squads of three as the minimum; We see this in the Space Marine 2 game because two of the main characters are Primaris Marines. 2.) Bolters get the rep they do because there are not only a ton of different kinds of them, but also a wide variety of munitions that they fire. The important thing is that they Do fire at standard muzzle velocity, because they are propelled by a two-stage system that has them leave the barrel and normal muzzle velocity for that caliber of bullet. The gyro jet keeps them at that velocity, through their entire flight, unlike a normal bullet which quickly loses kinetic energy as it travels. This is confirmed by their depiction in the lore as having insane recoil, as a gun only powered by a gyro jet would have basically no recoil. They also have an immensely dense core that increases their weight far beyond a standard bullet-meaning they hit harder-and a specialized tip that is designed to penetrate standard armor, so the bolt detonates inside the target. One of these hits any helldiver, they're dead. 3.) Space marine armor is made of Ceramite and Plasteel, which share names of real-world materials, but are not the same thing. Space Marine ceramite is close to what we call ceramite, but better. Plasteel, by contrast, is a portmantua of 'plastic' and 'steel' because it is a purely fictional material with the consistency of plastic, but the tensile strength of steel. It is canonically stated as being created during the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind was at its technological peak; Back when they had Star Snuffers that devoured stars to harvest resources. Frankly, that bolter rounds can penetrate space marine armor says a lot more about the potency of bolter rounds than it does the 'weakness' of the power armor. 4.) Space marines are not specialist. All Marines start as scout marines, at base level, and are only allowed to advance once they have proven themselves expert-level marksman, as well as highly adept stealth infiltrators. From there they become assault marines, then devastator marines, mastering first melee combat and then heavy-weapons training. Only then do they become 'Tactical Marines' which are the base-line for what it means to be a full-fledged Space Marine. Side Note: I think a Helldiver could kill a Space Marine, in the same way an Imperial Guard could kill a space marine. They have anti-tank grade weaponry, so if they get the shot off, they'll probably kill the Marine. I just find it unlikely that the Helldivers would survive first contact with the Space Marines, because the Marines are better scouts that don't need to call in specialized weapons to delete their enemies. After the first wave of Divers is taken down, they lose all stealth as hell pods are not stealthy, and Marines travel at 60 KM/Hour and weigh the better part of a ton. The instant one leaves a pod, they become jelly on the nearest Marine's giant pauldron.
I'm a Helldivers fan, but the Ultramarines can easily kill the helldivers because: They have super hearing, they can't get snuck up on as long as they know something is out there (can filter out/enhance different sounds, such as footsteps) They have previously fought nearly invisible enemies (eldar) with insane reaction times and are faster than an Eagle strafing run's call in time (eagle is also.. well.. a plane so you can see that sorta stuff rather easily) I also assume that the Ultramarines know about stratragems, as their mission is to kill the helldivers.. meaning they can run away (and I mean AWAY) when they see a helldiver throw anything near them The fight: The HDs call in their supports/backpacks, the marines notice the hellpods coming in (Marines are known to teleport, but even if they arrive same time as the HDs the supports still need to be called in) at this point they both know where the enemy is (aproximately) and the marines can just run there since they don't need any prep time! I'm not gonna argue that the marines can withstand anything the helldivers "throw" at them but.. they do run at 60km/h which is faster than a helldiver can aim/call stratragem! now they're all dead, a new group gets called in but guess what? the marines can just split up, dodge the pod (again, insane speeds) kill them, one remaining but tf he gonna do? he's on cooldown! Then repeat until all dead. Conclusion: Your whole "HDs win ez" relies on the marines not having hearing, reflexes and speed (Which they all have by default, the 60km/h isn't even the maximum they can run, it's the speed they would use due to exhaustion) Super earth is known to just not give a sh*t about HDs meaning replacement divers don't have support weapons, they're practically naked, meaning the only real threat to the marines are the OG divers that land first and those ones are useless, the most they can do is kill 1 marine before the rest notice them and camp them.
Not to be that guy, but space marine strike force is usually a larger formation at company level or higher, utilising broader range of weaponry and equipment. Theres no 3-man official unit. We have the squad at 5-10 man. I guess someone took all their info from SM2.
He's also ignoring the fact that the only reason space marines engage in so much melee combat is that the enemies in 40k demand that you be proficient in melee combat. I have no idea why any marine would charge at 20 regular humans milling around looking for something to throw glowing red balls at. Every helldiver would just get picked off from 300m away easy peasy.... We're talking about 100+ year old super soldiers Heck, even modern Navy Seals would win this matchup! Let alone Astartes!
@@MyopicPowerhouse id suspect modern day navy seals probably wouldnt have a good time vs dudes wearing armor that can tank bullets and that fire literal lasers and plasma whilst having a massive intel advantage with wrist mounted radars that give away exact enemy positions within 100-150m. That dont just have aerial superiority but orbital superiority man. Unless you wanna argue the us military has counters for flying giant arsenals that stock a fuck load of mini nukes. Navy seals are good soldiers but i dont think their effectivness fighting a buncha goat farmers in the middle east translates 1 to1 to an enemy that outperfoms them in all but probably number of troops available and alledgedly maybe training if you buy into the devs thinking 4 man elite squads with on demand close air support and orbital cannons is a "grunt fantasy" Marines need to get the drop on divers. Or they will find out real quick how fast a diver can enter a code for a railcannon/orbital laser. Or if they wanna ge into a snipe off hope they like shielded enemies with railguns.
@@SuperVideoman2012 lmao. Modern navy snipers would easily take the W. You're severely underestimating them and placing WAY too much faith in a helmet to not let through a 50. cal round. Also did you just call helldivers "elite"? The tooltip that says "You are Super Earth's elite, never forget that" is propaganda, you realise that right? Helldivers are all fresh out of basic training. They train, are frozen in cryostasis, and the next thing they know they're diving into a combat zone. No, they aren't elite.
@MyopicPowerhouse brudda if you think theyd fight the same way as they do vs literal bugs then i got news for you but even if their armor doesnt stop it and were assuming atm their snipers get the drop on them they can bring literal energy shields that block rockets so it would be plinking their shield and then they dive for cover. Also their military training starts at 7-10 years old. If you really think all the training they got was what we did as a tutorial then people must have evolved a reload organ in their brain in the future because normal fresh conscripts dont do what helldivers do with their guns. Just watch the entire video my man. Most of these points come up. If the diver can face of against the illuminate i highly doubt some marines with regular snipers are gonna do much and thats already being generous and assuming they got 50 call snipers wich is not standard issue afaik. Thats also assuming they can all even spot the helldivers at all. Wich is a lot more of an issue than you think it is. 300m out theres a good chance you arent gonna see them at all. Lucky if you even do within a 100m. Any big fortified positon just needs 1 diver to get semi close and literal giant cannons in low orbit start to shell it. Marines would probably manage a fight vs SEAF. Helldivers whos only mission is to just kill them tho? not so much. Best you could argue is marines might be able to ambush them if the divers have an unrelated mission objective. even in that situation theres bubble shields and literal space lasers to consider. During such ambushes. Whats more suprising is you listening to devs that consider fighting thousands of enemies with insane amounts of on demand airsupport and literal space ship close support a grunt fantasy. The grunts are SEAF (can be literal child soldiers and where most divers come from) the divers on the other hand are the dudes that go on insane suicide missions outnumbered 200 to 1 and actually do their missions anyways.
@@SuperVideoman2012 Unfortunately brother, you're talking to someone who would gargle the balls of Games Workshop at every turn they get, considering they've been bootlicking Space Marines in every single reply, ever.
Not to glaze bolters, but they shoot like regular bullets and only start rocketing once they're out of the barrel so they can continue accelerating. So they're supposed to be faster than the average bullet by the time they reach their target.
Every Spacemarine can become a dreadnought if they are critically injured and there's an unoccupied one in the mission area where a mechanus guy can install them inside.
This is rather biased, and helldivers are more like elite guardsmen units. On top of that, many people have pointed out that bolters are different from how you depicted them in the video, and marines have a larger array of weapons and the standard unit size is a squad which is anywhere from 5 to 10 marines. Plus deathwatch marines are veterans that are selected from chapters to serve in the deathwatch. Also, marines have at some type of ship, with an example being a gladius frigate, which has a single squad of marines on it. To end this off marines could take certain types of small arms even without their armor , anywhere from 22 lr to maybe 223 rounds at best, and with their armor, anything short of harming a tank is what you might need for their armor. This is what i know from what I have read or watched, so maybe not the strict truth, but a decent idea of what it could be.
He's also ignoring the fact that marines are 200 year old higly experienced combat veterans vs basically a bunch of hooman doods fresh out of basic training. I have no idea why any marine would charge at 20 regular humans milling around looking for something to throw glowing red balls at. Every helldiver would just get picked off from 300m away easy peasy.... We're talking about 100+ year old super soldiers Heck, even modern Navy Seals would win this matchup! Let alone Astartes!
@@justyouraverage_machine9578 honestly why i dont like alot of his VS videos like how the covenant from halo would apparently lose to helldivers or all of mass effect [including the reapers] this man likes the act like a lore expert in all games he covers but hes definitely not atleast he does plenty of research. but mannnn does this dude fall flat in alot of things like for example the covenant on the ground have alot more than just scarabs like scarabs arent the end of the covenant ground force. youll have drauger/siege engine [which you can see in reach apart of the 2D background they use on that battlefield cutscene] its basically a huge fortress vehicle even bigger than the lich [which is a vehicle of its own] grunt mechs not to mention covenants advanced shielding tech that last i checked literally takes nukes to break through [which UNSC frigates have] not to mention if theirs no objects they want on the planet they arent opposed to just glassing the planet itself and to talk about the troops elites in themselves literally give spartans a hard time and im pretty sure theirs literally like billions of them alone not including the other races like like jackals brutes or grunts.
The following is my accuracy review as a Warhammer 40k fan: Corrections: The best of the best from each faction segment I do not care who you throw at them but If you make a battle group made up of Marneus Calgar ( the dude who literally punched through an avatar of Khaine killing him ), Cato Sicarius ( The guy who 1v1nd a C’tan Shard ) and Malum Caedo ( Single handedly stopped a planet wide chaos incursion by running around at mach 4, even though multiple greater deamons were present, despite the fact that a Changer of ways can just snap his fingers or blink and turn inside out, to dust, into a statue or just make every single one of his organs explode, only to then immediately go on another mission [ And yes the game is indeed canon ] ). Heavy Bolters ( Granted It's about bolters in general, specifically their ammunition) Bolter rounds are all equipped with an armour piercing tip and that's the standard ammunition for bolt guns, so unless your using variants like a shrapnel one which explodes before hitting the target, however, It still launches the shrapnel in the general direction of the target, though not as effective at piercing armour It is rather difficult to dodge. Second, each individual bolt shell actually has in-built sensors that guarantee that the bolt explodes once It is already inside the target. Once again, standard bolt gun or heavy bolter ammunition. In lore bolters are death producing machines but It in game they have been nerfed for gameplay purposes. Before the Horus Heresy Bolters didn't actually have the armour piercing tip, as there wasn't really a need at the time. When the Heresy began the traitors actually had the edge in medium-long range battles because they already had this new type of ammunition equipped and distributed amongst their forces, since they knew that they were gonna betray and kill their brothers, hence came prepared. It's one of the reasons they were successful during the early war, the loyalist astartes literally had to shoot the traitor ones more times then the traitors needed to shoot them in order to heavily maim or kill the opposing side. After the Heresy due to the Heresy Itself, the Scouring and the war of the beast when the Imperium had to fight a lot of heavily armoured enemies the upgraded ammunition became a standard one, there was still plenty of chaos marines, so switching back would put them at a disadvantage. Armour The armour could theoretically withstand the acidic gas as we don't really know how It compares to the ones the Tyranids use. These guys are an eldrich horror from outside the galaxy, they have seriously overpowered battle forms that are able to tank really heavy weapons like melta's even If shot at point blank, and medium forms with shells that can withstand lazgun fire, they literally have space magic in the form of psychic bio forms that can use warp lightning, they also have passive fear inducing ability, as well as other impressive feats of strength and adaptation. So comparing the two acidic substances is a long shot. Stealth The reason why space marines don't really use stealth that often is because everyone there has really advanced scanners ( other than the nids who don't use technology with orks being a 50/50 )capable of sensing them from far away, so why even bother hiding If they already know you're coming? That's the reason why they wear colourful armour, since you might as well dunk on your opponent and give them emotional damage. Yet, despite this they are largely still alive and kicking even though there's plenty of guns that can kill them in W40k. So they are pretty much masters of reverse jumping and are most likely trained to handle such situations. Either you call that plot convince or a combination of training and experience is up to you. Transhuman Dread Transhuman Dread: Am I a joke to you? Terminator armour Terminator armour: Am I a joke to you? Power Sword Might be inaccurate. The power sword statement is pretty debatable. Probably inaccurate though. The lore is kinda vague at times. Anyway, back to debunking. Other power weapons: power fist, unlike the sword, is not made for cutting, It is made for smashing, so simply disrupting the particles of whatever surface It's used against is perfect for its purpose. The reason why in 40k you can have an actual sword fight even If you literally have a power sword is because literally everyone has either some advanced magic or advanced technology that lets them make such weapons. Overall: Overall a decent video in terms of lore accuracy, pretty impressive for someone who isn't a 40k nerd. The best legions to fight helldivers would be the Raven Guard ( They have passive warp ability that makes them undetectable when in darkness ), Dark Angels ( They have the same philosophy of hyper specialization), White Scars ( Fast ).
You see the thing is he had a good point with the strongest segment you’re correct those are way stronger characters, but hell divers has John hell diver who is literally stated to be equal to John Warhammer who is the emperor in his prime plus 40,000 Warhammers meaning, no matter what there’s no real winner. If we use the strongest, because then John hell diver and John Warhammer would get into a fight in all reality would just be destroyed, and we just become nonsense And pain
@@COULY_GALLO01-yo6sg All of them have It, just like all Blood Angels have the black rage and red thirst. There are skill differences between members and chapters but they still have the passive stealth buff from their primarch, not all of them can utilize It equally sure but Blood Angels have various varying levels of control over their own heritage, It's individual, absolutely but all of them still have It, literally in their blood. Granted It's possible that some chapters did lose It, as geneseed does change with different generations.
Just throwing this out there for a few thing, transhuman dread won’t do anything. Hell divers see that as their day to day a bile titan is much more terrifying and transhuman dread is mostly a buzz word thrown around by new warhammer 40k fans Anton cackled and said, ‘We saw Space Marines today. They saved us.’ ‘I noticed,’ I said. ‘You think they noticed us?’ he asked. His eyes narrowed and his brow furrowed. The scar tightened on his forehead. I was surprised that he sounded so serious. ‘Well, they did not shoot us,’ I said. ‘I mean did they even see us as people? Will they remember us and think, yeah, we saved those Guardsmen on Karsk?’ I thought about the fierce, savage face of the Death Spectre. I remembered the controlled, killing fury in those cold, black eyes. I remembered the way he had grunted when I spoke to him. ‘The Emperor’s Angels’ I have heard the Space Marine Chapters called. There seemed very little angelic about them to me. I thought Death Spectres an entirely appropriate name. They certainly looked like manifest death to me, and they had proved themselves to be to all those they encountered on the field of battle. Among all those bodies down there, among all the thousands of casualties, I had not seen one encased in ceramite armour. ‘I doubt it.’ Ivan nodded and scratched his metal cheek. It made a nerve-jangling grinding sound. ‘Like mortal gods,’ he said. ‘Like something out of Scripture come to life.’ He sounded uneasy and that too was understandable. It is all very well hearing legends and heroic tales. It is another thing to find one of those legends standing in front of you, wielding a bolter and filled with righteous fury. The uncomfortable thought sidled into my mind: what if the Death Spectre had decided I was one of the Emperor’s enemies? He would have killed me on the spot and there was absolutely nothing I could have done to stop him. Space Marines have a way of making you feel your mortal insignificance. I was glad they were on our side but I was not sure I wanted to be that close to one ever again. Anton, as ever, chose to give voice to his own reveries. ‘You know I don’t think they are like us at all.’ ‘They are certainly not like you,’ Ivan said. ‘I mean it. I think they have no more in common with us than orks do.’ ‘That’s not true. They were men once, if the tales are true.’ ‘Once, Leo. Not any more. I looked into one’s eyes. It was not like looking into a man’s eyes at all. And I don’t think he looked back at me and saw someone who was the same species as him. They say they live forever, you know.’ ‘They don’t. Just longer than us, if they are not shot.’ ‘Yes, but they have a gene-seed in them that is passed on from one to another. That lives forever. Some of them must be carrying seeds that date back to when the Emperor walked among men.’ So for these examples specifically a lot of the trans human dread is the fact space marines are the emperors will in the setting which is just absolutely awful for the average person but for hell divers who don’t have that context they aren’t going “oh my god it’s the emperors angels” For terminator armor that would be an even worse decision they can’t sprint and the hell divers would just throw lasers at them till they die lol terminator armor would be the worst weapon against hell divers by a mile Overall it’s very matchup dependent
this is exactly how this battle shouldve went… its a bunch of helldivers trying to throw ordinance at space marines but dies cause theyre panicking trying to play DDR while a brick wall charges at them at 45 mils per hour while their primary are bouncing off
Some Terminids go faster than 45 mph and they have TONS of weapons that will go through SM armor. From 40 mm explosive Flak rounds (which is almost twice the size of a heavy bolter round), to explosive plasma and chemical weapons that eat through tank armor.
@@rougarabid 40mm explosive FLAK rounds that isnt piercing through thats exploding infront of the marine and he will still be running power armor would need anti armor not FLAK to take down all the stuff you said here a astartes can survive astartes are built to survive and still fight even under wounds that would kill the average human (which helldivers are)
@@Sigismunddagoatultramarine stan trying to explain how a space marine can take an 80mm round to the skull and keep walking(that’s not even the artillery, that’s a fucking handheld weapon round)
@@person9846 im not even saying that he could run while taking a round to the skull im just saying that this autocanon isnt doing much unless you get a headshot and which good luck when its charging at you 60Mph while shooting
Small correction, techmarines don’t pilot dreadnoughts, dreadnoughts are operated by hospitalized space marines that have been rendered either paraplegic at the least or a quadriplegic at its most severe, a techmarine is pretty much an exchange student taken to the Adepts of mars where they learn how to operate technology and coexist with the machine spirit of certain mechanical objects. In simplest terms dreadnoughts are space marine hospital patients given new bodies in order to return to combat, and techmarines are just losers who get isolated from their brothers because they were chosen to hang out with weird Martian people for half a century .
Only every ACTIVE Helldiver has a destroyer. Most helldivers are kept frozen waiting for the mind of the Helldiver who commands a ship to be imprinted onto their bodies when the Helldiver dies or goes to an allied destroyer. I'm basing this on the fact that every gameplay death is canon, and you can change your body and voice type, which the tooltips say is canon, so for helldivers to increase in rank their minds would have to be preserved in the ship itself.
@@tomfoolery2299 Which to be frank, is dumb. I've heard that every helldiver has his own destroyer, but how is that true if he's sharing it with a few hundred other people? Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@netherwalker1762 They ¨own¨ the ship until death and then the next helldiver is in control of it, this is mentioned in the side wall contract in the turtorial for helldivers
Sort of. The initial charge is only there to get the bullet out the chamber so the propulsion doesn’t cause pressure buildup. It’s described as a very small initial burst and isn’t anything close to the burst real world guns get.
Any space marine can pilot a Dreadnought, even the ones not adept in tech, it's just where space marines too injured to be healed are placed where they may continue to serve the Emperor. It makes them stronger, but slowly erodes their minds. The technologicaly knowledgeable ones are tech marines, looking agter the chapters gear and relics. The specialization part is true, but one must consider, a low ranking space marine might also have 50 years (young for space marines, average is in lower 3 digits) of high level difficulty missions under his belt, that itself puts them high in terms of arms and combat mastery. As per rule 2, these marines are not the rare/special 1000 year old marines, but just an average battle brother. Happy that you noticed and considered the experience too. Great video.
50 years combat experience isn't of much help when someone who knows exactly where you are and has stealth tech you can't penetrate throws a rock at you that causes a massive orbital railgun that can take down 3 story tall bile titans in a single hit to start tracking you with perfect accuracy. and it's a squad of 4 of them each with 4 (technically 5) replacements waiting in line vs the 3 space marines
@irregularguy6465 Space marines do have experience fighting the Tau, who use stealth technology and lots of weapons from the sky. Plus Astartes would definitely take into account the giant ship in orbit, they would consider it a weapon and make plans accordingly.
@@zipperfingers749 for every ten thousand guardsmen, there is 1 helldiver. Guardsmen are meant to be inexpensive and usually just throw bodies at a problem. Helldivers are shock troops, guardsmen are battle line infantry. A better match up would be like the tempestus scions, or the Lucifer blacks.
@rougarabid small arms in 40k are not the same as small arms in the real world in lore this space marine armor has stoped armor piercing 50 cal rounds as well as rapier laser destroyer turrets they fire the same energy as the lasgun a weapon that can blow off limbs and melt most forms of metal a rapier laser destroyer is a scaled up stronger version and could not penetrate space marine armor
This has differed across 40k lore for the tanking of a 50 cal round. As far as the Laser. Ceramite has incredible thermal distribution and dissipation properties and is one of the main properties of the alloy. It rapidly distrubutes heat over a large portion of its surface area. Then, it dissipates the heat off. So using the Lasgun isn't a great one to one comparison since it used heat more than force to do its damage. And the Space Marine armor is quite heat resistant.
I would like to see how the people from Helldivers against the Orks. Also wonder how the take in all light will work against them. It will be entertaining to see him do that one next.
tbh i think it would be a fun fight, especially for the orks. the amount of fire power the hell divers bring can smash many orks to dust, but when a hell diver dies a replacement is sent in, and the fight is on again, the helldivers smash the orks some more, rockets and bombs flying everywhere. the orks join in... Orks have a great time.. the Helldivers have a great time killing undemocratic aliens.... its a win win xD
The orks have a good foght, the government gets to spend more money on the military as super earth slowly erodes against the infinite orky population of powerful gits
Slight correction: Battle barges aren't the HQ of most chapters, most have stationary strongholds or even whole worlds (Space Wolves have The Fang, Dark Angels have The Rock, Ultramarines have Ultramar, ect.) Battle barges are more of a forward operating base.
@rougarabid No problem, and you aren't ENTIRELY wrong. There are fleet-based chapters, it's just not the standard. There's also cases like the Imperial Fists who have a massive fortress-ship called the Phalanx.
The bolter round has a speed of about 2200 to 3200 feet per second, which is about the same speed as a bullet on average, doesn’t fix the mini map but the explosion isn’t the only way they can do damage.
As of the recent weapon buff patch, (which is a cannon event, SEAF implemented "major upgrades" to the Helldivers arsenal) the auto cannon cracks heavy armor, so i think its safe to say its 20mm explosive round.
Arrowhead didn't buff the Autocannon's armor pen in that patch. They didn't lay a single finger on it. They just nerfed everything that was supposed to be 'tank' class. Heavy armor is everything from class 5 and up. What arrowhead did was change everything that was Armor 5 to Armor 4, thus making them medium armored and capable of being penned by the autocannon. It's actually the one change I didn't like from the 60 day plan, because now, it feels pointless to specifically go for weak points if you can just kill it from any angle now.
@@esteban_8224 It's a waste of time to go for not the weakpoints, the weakpoints are literally the quickest way to kill an enemy and if you aren't doing it, you're either fresh and green, or an idiot.
It’s actually a 30mm round. Also people are ignoring the recoilless, which it’s basically exactly the same real life counterpart has an 84mm round, so there is no issue penetrating armour.
Yall completly forget the reaction time of a spacemarine I don't remmember the specifics but the normal person would have just started to lift their gun by the time the spacemarine fires. Also spacemarines do have other grenades like the smoke grenade which would have helped the spacemarines close the distance or place a shoot. Another thing is that spacemarines only have about 2 hours of free time being that the rest of the time is trainning and fighting making them quite experienced with their weapons and being able to be extremely precise. Also it is stated in the lore that spacemarines have a general detection device on all their suits to detect everything around them by about 50 kilometers minimum because of the existence of specified armor for scouting.
@@MyopicPowerhousedon't even need to hit the Space Marine just land near him slap a 500 kg stratagem on him and he can run all he wants ain't a dam thing he can do about it. They all go down
The only thing i feel i can add to this discussion is i think the space marines strategic experience is being way undersold here .... they fight necrons, and win ... ever, they fight tyranids which are way worse than the helldivers bugs, and they fight tau ... the hell divers do not have more effective long range weapons than the Tau do. the thing i think is it wouldnt matter what theatre of war you put them in outside the empty arena the space marines would most likely dictate the engagement, even if helldivers can cloak .. the tau can cloak too ... rarely buys them a win. space marines fight camouflaged enemies stealth enemies, teleporting enemies, etc. a single space marines frag is on a completely different scale and they can actually throw a grenade way farther sue to natural strength and enhanced power armor. hell divers cloaking will not hide them if they getting covered in debri and tossed around. The space marine NORMAL arsenal is way more varied than you spoke. the power sword is not all that ... because it is actually a pretty common weapon. assault packs are not rare neither are heavy bolters or plasma cannons almost every unit has a special weapon choice, in a kill team which is supposed to be half a squad (a normal space marine deployment is 8-10) the other half of the squad is just splitting for a different nearby objective. the developers stated that they went with 3 because 4 players made the game too easy. Space marines move much faster than helldivers average target, they come up with complex strategies, they aim faster and more accurately, dodge faster, etc. also neat peice of info a kill team is guarunteed to have 1 veteran in it to lead it. there is usually a squad leader and backup squad leader who split to lead each half of the unit. so a NORMAL space marine KILL TEAM would have 1 vet that is older and has been through most trainings and is likely a tactical with a wide berth of available weapons. Check out the following weapons Rouga: Deathwatch shotgun, Asartes Needle rifle, stalker bolter, Spider turret, Plasma Cannon, Plasma rifle , volkite weapons, grav weapons, these are selections that can be in basically any space marine unit and therefore 50% chance to be in a split kill team. they can call down orbital weapon assistance too through the use of drop pods (featured in Space marine 2 BTW).
as in they can swap weapons whenever they want and all 3 could call down heavy bolters and just paste the entire landscape in fire until nothing moves. Di-Pole maglocks are crazy too it allows them to switch weapons and reload hands free. to say nothing of the impact of one psycher or tech adept in the unit like a librarian there are non named non special versions of all of those.
Yeah when i think about it you even see this happen in Space marine 2 .... Titus is put in charge of the other 2 because he is the vet in his half of the unit ... his kill team, yeah he's second company so they are very veteran units, but the pattern would hold firm down the power structure ... even the most basic of units will have 2 much more experinced space marines within it to be the leadership in case a killteam split is required. the other two soldiers despite being in second company longer are way his junior in full years of service ... hes hundreds of years older than them.
Another great example of this is when you encounter the Lictor the first time, most of the marines that were killed were able to fight back against a foe that stealthy and fast ... they may have lost but they knew it was there and they were able to fight it.... aint no way a Helldiver is moving around invisible at that pace. and making no sound, no odor, no taste on the wind.
Dawn of war 2 also shows this pattern of a veteral leader, when it places Cyrus in charge of the Scouts he is actually the most senior member save tarkus who again is leading the tacticals instead of being in the force commanders unit. Space marines sprinkle experienced soldiers within all units so that even if separated form command structure they can autonomously persue the objective. and in case they need to split up to cover ground they have 2 reliable leaders at the absolute minimum in thier bottom ranks.
Nope. Dreadnoughts are piloted by near dead marines locked in tombs. Only certain marines can pilot them making it a specialization ✅ Dreadnaught is tech piloted by marines, ergo Tech Marines ✅ Right on both accounts.
@@rougarabid tech marines is a name used for space marine mechanics and technitians, so thats why people say you are wrong. You don't need to be a tech marine to become a dreadnought
@@rougarabid tech marines are the techpriests of their chapters. dreadnaughts aren't tech marines. they are just dreadnaughts. in theorie any space marine could turn into a dreadnaught. tech marines are the guys that maintain them
@@rougarabid dont sweat it, you were right on most other accounts. i agree that even a dreadnought dropping in to suppourt the space marines would clear maybe 4-5 more helldivers before one of them dropped a strategem that would destroy it.
Kinda sounds like marines fighting Tau lol Im curious how the fight might change if a single librarian is one of the 3 marines. Can the librarian negate enough of the Hell Divers advantages?
Regular Librarian or 1000 Son level Librarian. Just look at the ways they could have defended Prospero against the Space Wolves, but Magnus told them not to. Helldivers would lose before even leaving their ship.
minimap or no, the helldivers themselves are still lorewise highly inexperienced and expendable troops with only basic training. They get wiped for thier lack of experience People seem to think that helldivers would be as effective as they are with players controlling them... but think about it... every helldiver has only ever dived on 1 mission. They have 1 mission of experience. The mission they;re IN right now. The game makes us think that Helldivers are competant... but we're basically taking the brains of fallen helldivers and re-uploading them into the next one with all thier memories and experience intact! Not how it works in lore, obviously. SO basically you have 20 bumbling fools against 3 elite soldiers with 200 years experience. Fuck you could even make them regular humans with sniper rifles, and all the helldivers are dead easy peasy. They wouldnt even know what got them.
minimap or no, the helldivers themselves are still lorewise highly inexperienced and expendable troops with only basic training. They get wiped for thier lack of experience People seem to think that helldivers would be as effective as they are with players controlling them... but think about it... every helldiver has only ever dived on 1 mission. They have 1 mission of experience. The mission they;re IN right now. The game makes us think that Helldivers are competant... but we're basically taking the brains of fallen helldivers and re-uploading them into the next one with all thier memories and experience intact! Not how it works in lore, obviously. TH-cam is trying to censor the next line im trying to write... but i dont know how else to write it. Look basically experience is a huge advantage ok| I'm trying to say you could even just have 3 regular modern day humans with snipper riffles, and the helldivers wouldn't even know what hit em - let alone 3 super elite 200 year old strategists with stalker bolters
@@rougarabid He's right though, you left out the biggest advantage that astartes have; the helldivers themselves are actually really incompetent. What was your first dive like? How long did it take you to input strategems? Remember, every diver in canon is fresh out of basic training - the game makes you think they're way more competent than they actually are. The reality is, you could even take 3 modern day navy Seals with snipper riffles, and the 20 helldivers wouldnt even know what hit em. Forget 3 super soldiers with super-aim and super-senses picking helldivers off from 300m away with Stalker BOlters, there's no contest here man.
Can't this just be for fun think yes we all know that the space Marines will win they can literally one shot a helldivers and I take any damage from also their arsenal but who cares
@@MyopicPowerhouse I was thinking the same thing. The whole point of the Helldivers is that they die gruesomely. They’re literally fodder for their own universe.
Although not trying to start an argument or anything I think Space Marines have a far larger chance to win this than this video may state, now I'm not saying this guy is stupid in fact he's quite logical but I'm pretty sure his sources are just outright wrong. Firstly, there is no way that small arms fire can penetrate Space Marine armor, although there have been some refrences of small arms fire such as autoguns or lasguns penetrating space marine armor, and even if it is true 'small arms fire' in 40k is more likely larger than 5.56 or 7.62 is because it hit their weak parts such as joints and eyes. A Helldiver won't be that accurate in shooting out the eyes on a target that can move 20km/h with ease. Secondly, bolters are rocket propelled weapons, they exit the chamber with gas and the rockets on the bolt ignite which propel the shell further which makes it about as fast if not faster than normal bullets. Thirdly, it has been stated in the lore that Space Marines can catch bullets and their reaction time is at the miliseconds, so they should be able to reasonably dodge some bullets if their velocity is slow enough. Although I agree that the Helldivers can still easily kill Space Marines with things like Railcannon Strike stratagems I think Space Marines can inflict more casualties and not to mention they are extremely intelligent, their brains akin to super computers, which means that on the first engagement the Space Marine should have enough information to combat the Helldivers, and as long as the marines stay away like 60 meters from the Helldivers I don't think the Helldivers can target the Railcannon Strike (40 meter throwing range and who knows the targetting range for Railcannon)
The helldivers radar doesn't work at super long range (unless you are scanning the area with scout armor). In the game, enemies only show up if they're within about 100m. If a marine is sprinting at you at 60 mph, 100m is nothing. In fact, I think the speed of the marines is their greatest advantage here. It's totally viable for a marine to outrun the orbital laser or clear the area before the vast majority of strategems go off. They're not going to know that they need to start running when a helldiver throws something at them at first, so I think they do lose a marine to that, but marines are also canonically very smart and the 2 remaining marines aren't going to make the same mistake. Marines are also canonically very perceptive due to their gene augmentation. Not enough to beat the helldivers in the information gathering game, but enough that it's not going to be easy to get a stratagem near them without them noticing and having a few seconds to clear the area. Scout armor absorbing all light isn't the same as invisibility. Things that absorb almost all light exist in reality. We call them 'literally anything coloured black'. In order to be invisible, people have to see the light from things behind you. Otherwise, you are a black object moving. It's good, but it's not just 'walk up to the marine and drop a strategem' good. But yeah, with their superior maneuverability and the helldivers radar not giving enemy pings at long range, this becomes a lot less one sided. The helldivers have railcanon shots, which are designed for targeting single targets and they might be the greatest threat to the marines. I'm not really sure that this analysis leads to either side definitively winning though. Like you said, it's incredibly situation dependent.
even if the radar range is 100m, the fact they can always know where the enemy is is a great advantage for the helldivers. all they need to do then is to lure all the space marines into one area, stay hidden, spam stratagems, and fire every autocannon and railgun at the space marines until the space marines are dead. basically the helldivers have to finish the fight before the space marines can react.
Basically if the helldivers can get the drop on the space marines, the advantage goes to the helldivers. If they can't, the battle is heavily favored for the Space Marines because they're really fast and have insane reaction speed.
I can already tell he doesnt know anything about 40k beside "big buff men in big armour" from the first 10 minutes of the video and he can still somehow get "big buff men in big armour" wrong
I can already tell you dont know anything about 40k beside "big buff men in big armour" from the first 10 words of the comment and you can still somehow get "big buff men in big armour" wrong.
The funny thing is in Warhammer 40k there was this exact scenario that happened except for it was the Imperial guard. I mean pre Codex Astartes Imperial Guard regiments. It was when each Regiment was self sufficient, meaning they all had Artillery, infantry, Heavy Tank divisions all in one regiment. Now the Imperial guard regiments are pretty much infantry that have to request the other branches within the Astra Militarum so they can get tanks or artillery installed. It was highlighted in the Horus Heresy where the Imperial Guard with access to tanks, and artillery were very tough even to Space Marines. A lot of Space Marines died during that, but its one of the reasons why they broke apart the Imperial Guard regiments into 3 branches.
@@demonseed1995Yes only certain Imperial Guard regiments who are basically deemed “incorruptible” or basically will basically will almost never turn traitor so they do get combined arms.
Wrong the reason why they broke the imperial army into branches was to intentionally handicap the Regiments in case they turned traitor. For example a traitor infantry regiment would lack the armor and artillery, an artillery regiment would lack offensive direct fire, a traitor fleet would lack the number and equipment to take over a planet etc etc. Outside of certain conflicts like tallarn (and even then it should be noted that the tallarn desert raiders were aided by craftworld eldars in the conflict) The imperial army fared TERRIBLY against the space marines even the solar auxilia who like the custodes were the most elite human army in the imperium possessing the most potent and advanced equipment a human that isn't from the mechanicum had access to STILL took casualties in the dozens for every space marine killed and the imperial army fared worse with needing on average hundreds of guardsmen just to take down one marine
@@XD-sc4ix “Yeah bro funny thing is the imperial guard is cracked and was similar using combined arms they were able to kill a lot of space marines which is one of the reasons of why they got broken up” “Uh no actually your wrong it was to deprive traitor guardsmen of combined arms” Like dumbass that’s the same thing
if we are able to draw from 30k spacemarines, some of the thousand sons were strong enough to bend reality to their whims. 40k does have a john helldiver, his name is sly marlbo he is an imperial guardsman and has killed dark eldar. The standard intercessor isn't the standard soldier of the astartes. reason being each chapter can only have 1k space marines most of the time go into specialties like becoming a reiver or an eliminator. depending on the legion the chapter descends from can determine much of their tendencies, durability, and tech. The space marines aren't the strongest thing in warhammer but they are the peak of normal super soldiers "the best of decent". Bolters have different patterns and is not always the same strength, there are ones for humans but they are less powerful. The biggest advantage the spacemarines have is the belisarian furnace which doubles their speed and strength. older lore says the bolter is .998 caliber newer lore says bolters are .75 cal, that said though there are different type of bolts too kraken rounds, hellfire bolts, execution rounds, and more. In horus heresy bolters cut through spacemarine armor very easily, so easily in fact that the mk 5 heresy armor had to use molecular studs to get more armor. Most normal lasguns can incinerate limbs and are pretty much flashlights against space marine armor. The biggest question here is which kind of armor is the marine wearing, mk 10 tacticus armor is modular, Gravis armor is impervious to small arms fire, it is slightly less protective than terminator armor. Depending on the squad the helldivers are different levels of fucked.
I'm only 3/4 the way through the video but I wanted to talk about the stealth armor absorbing all light. In reality that would have the opposite effect of stealth. When all light is absorbed you will still see it. As a matter of fact it will stand out during the day just as much as a flare would. The reason is because it would look like a void of absolute blackness. I'm talking the inside of a buried coffin on a moonless night kind of black. So you would see a black void where ever that stealth armor went is my point. Edit: For the doubters look up anything about VantaBlack. I believe someone on TH-cam painted a car with it and you'll see what I mean. It absorbes 99.7% of all light or something close to that.
No you’re right. I used fully black paint in art class years ago that absorbs all light and it looked like a silhouette. Forgot about that while recording this. Having said that I don’t bring it up during the actual showdown so it’s not something I lean on much.
@rougarabid I'm complaining about it. I'm a fan of your videos. I was just bored while at a mechanic shop so I decided to comment. The only reason I commented was because you said something in the video about them absorbing all light so they wouldn't be seen. I think that's a lore problem, not a you problem
@@rougarabid I miss read your comment a bit lol. My bad. If that came off a bit snippy, it wasn't meant too. I really do enjoy your videos. My comment was meant more for other veiwers.
You conveniently left out the fact that along with ceramite and plasteel the armor is also mixed with adamantium, which is one of the hardest materials in the 40k universe. And no, regular small arms cannot penetrate it. You need at least anti-tank level weapon to penetrate the armor
Not true. The Adamantium is shaped around plasteel and Ceramite plating to make up the bones of the armor so to speak but the plates aren’t Adamantium. Also it literally says in the lore that small arms fire can break through at close range not that that matters because every weapon that I stated the Helldivers would use was Anti-Tank/Anti-material rounds.
You are ingnoring the fact that in-lore a space marine can make about every single shot from 2 km away, and draw, aim, and fire in under a second, with a bit in a book where some average tactical marine catching bullets.
If the helldivers(stealth armor) was to work the way you describe it, by absorbing all light, the helldiver would appear as a pitch black flat shape, Not invisible. They would stand out very clearly even in dark inviermnts, since they would be significant darker then the environment around them.
Space marines have Auspex, which a full spectrum EM sensor, including radar. Headshots with the plasma weapons, the anti material rifle or the AC-8 could do it, and direct hits to the chest with the recoilless rifle or a thermite grenade, but the problem with fighting the marines is that they're extremely fast and agile for how large and armored they are and even if you did penetrate the armor, they die hard. You need to light switch them. Plus most of them have 50-200 years of combat experience, some even more. So I think no, 3 space marines would probably overwhelm the 20 and kill enough quickly enough that they'd lose their opportunity. They may kill one with a lucky shot but I don't think a personal shield would be guaranteed to protect a diver from a single bolt, so they're at a pretty big disadvantage.
Finally! Someone else says it. Thank you. The other thing is... why are we asuming the Space Marines even let the helldivers get close enough to throw strategems? If Helldivers get to be prepared for the fight, then why do the Astartes not all just have stalker bolters and win the whole thing almost immediately from 300m away with thier near-perfect aim? This isn't even a contest!
@@MyopicPowerhouse Why are they also only the most basic bitch ultramarines with no kit? None of their various tactics, no iron halos, no assault packs, just basic ultramarine with basic bolter.
The personal shield would stop at least 1 bolter round. The shield fully absorbs at least one instance of damage, no matter how overwhelming, though the diver still gets rag-dolled or staggered by the force. The shields have stopped 500kg bombs from killing divers before collapsing temporarily, so any follow up shots would do the trick. Though from what I can tell the bolters and the autocannons have roughly the same damage output, so maybe it'll take two to three shots to crack the shield. That's enough time to call in the Orbital Rail Cannon strike, which I think will take out the Space Marine in question. I don't think it's going to be one-sided at all, but I want to give the Helldivers the edge in this one due to the reinforcements. It's going to be a bloodbath, but I think there would be... 4 Divers left? Depending on how the terrain and info wars play out. Unfortunately, the sheer cost of a Space Marine dwarfs the expense of fielding a squad of Helldivers by quite a bit, so Super Earth wins that trade. If each diver has the shield backpack and a railgun/AMR, that leaves 2 slots for stratagems like Orbital Rail Cannon strike and... I think either the Autocannon Sentry, the Gatling Gun Sentry, the Mortar Sentry or the 500kg bomb in this case. I'm leaving the Expendable Anti-Tank and Commando Missile Launchers, as well as most other gear, out of the equation because I do think the Marines would be able to dodge them without much trouble, and the bubble shield pack is too necessary to swap out for anything that loads ammo from a backpack like the Recoilless or the Autocannon. I'm trying to be as fair as I can with what info I have. As far as I can tell during each engagement the Marines wipe the 4 man squad but lose one of their members to an Orbital Rail Cannon Strike, which prompts another 4 man squad to drop elsewhere and start the combat loop again. This also accounts for the Marines wiping a squad with no losses at all at least once, which I think is fair.
They are Marines who pilot tech. Ergo tech marines. Them being fucked up beyond repair doesn’t make the descriptor false. Point is it’s a specific role given to a specific type of marine and not something any Marine can do.
@@rougarabid tech marines are just marines who are also technicians and engineers it's a specific term that marines who pilot dreadnoughts are just called dreadnoughts it's not like they can leave the armor it also acts as a life support system
@@rougarabid any marine can become a dreadnought. He would just have to be considered great and be crippled in combat, i don't think that additional training is required.
@@rougarabidwe have a John warhammer called sly marbo he’s also cannon and is similar to he’s a literal 1 man army who has beaten a bane lord titan and a blood thirster. Also the breadnought stuff you said is inaccurate any space marine can be interred into one. Techmarines are a different thing that specialize in taking care of the mechanical aspects of the chapter so while yes they do work with dreadnoughts on occasion they aren’t the only ones who pilots them. Also Space Marines aren’t the imperiums greatest soldiers that would be the Primarchs then the Emperor bodyguards the Adeptus Custodians who are and I quote “the custodians are to a space marine what a space marine is to a guardsmen”
Space marine armour may be weak to small arms fire, but the small arms fire in 40K include guns much more powerful than standard small arms fire, las-pistols, and even bolt-pistols are powerful weapons compared to, lets say a AP round in a Desert Eagle (as per my knowledge, this is considered a very good small arm as of modern era). That increases the Space Marine armour defence standard significantly.
No, because small arms fire would include weapons shot by guardsman. Those weapons are limited by recoil and what a normal human man can fire. They would have to be relative to that level of strength.
@rougarabid The most common weapon used by the guardsman is a Lasgun, it is a very powerful weapon capable of destroying limbs, and concrete blocks, and have a ammo capacity of 60 shots. This gun is powerful for modern standards, with a few exceptions, but in lore it is considered an extremely weak weapon and useless when it comes to fighting tougher opponents such as space marines, only huge numbers of guardsman firing at 1 space marine takes them down, this is acknowledged by the guardsman themselves, the weakness of their weapons compared to the threats they face, though the weapon is actually strong. Therefore space marine armour is capable of shrugging, not a few small arms fire but a huge volley of concentrated fire.
@@eiric6958a normal modern gun can destroy a concrete block, it’s not a particularly impressive feat. The real impressive feat of the lasgun is the no recoil, and the near limitless ammo.
@peterhilligoss5697 Lasguns do have recoil, as shown in space marine 2 as well as in written sources before the game was released, plus it has a stock, the purpose of which is recoil management as well as increase in stability for accuracy. Lasguns are said to 'punch' through material as well as heat damage, they are not just simple lasers. Plus only modern high caliber guns punch or destroy a block of concrete in one shot, the average handheld lasgun is on the level of high level modern firearms. And it takes many of them to kill or even damage a Space Marine. That means a handheld pistol and sidearms chances of damaging Space Marines are really low, while it would require a lot of high caliber rounds to damage a space marine, like a guardsman battalion shooting at 1.
@@rougarabid Space marines have tanked shots from guardsman while not in armor. second most the weapons that kill space marines is mass fire or lucky shots to a weakened area and are not reliable or are weapons like hotshot las guns or bolt pistols at point blank range wielded by commissars. And normal humans can fire 50 cals sniper rifles, rocket and rpg launchers, sub machine guns and recoilless rifles of high caliber so no not has limited by recoil has you think. Guardsmen consider a standard bolt gun to be a crew serve heavy weapon while a space marine considers a standard combat rifle which would make it a small arm to them.
According to some sources(though you should probably take this with a grain of salt since 40k can be super inconsistent with it’s lore) the standard lasgun used by the imperial guard is similar in strength if not stronger than .50bgm, which space marine armor is able to take concentrated focus fire from like 12 dudes with lasguns and all it does is singe the paint, though that could be do to ceremite’s heat resistance, idk
Doesn’t matter either way. The Helldivers high penetrating weapons are much bigger than .50 caliber. Besides even if it does say that it’s inconsistent as Lasguns have been shown killing Space Marines before.
@@rougarabid Warhammer fans really have this bad habit of picking and choosing what traits their favorite thing has to win an argument, let’s take for example the lasgun, a lot of people agree that the lasgun somehow hits a target with more power than a 50 BMG(as you know lasers shoots photons which has NO mass, so it could not be more powerful than a 50BMG), but now because it’s a laser it has no recoil to the user and the beam doesn’t drop from gravity, now when it hits a target it explodes them because it vaporizes the water inside them but somehow the beam was not affected by the smoke,fog,dust(which as you know it affects the performance of lasers IRL). Also they state that the lasgun is more reliable and easier to clean than a normal rifle (damn imperium has some pretty shitty rifles if a laser is more RELIABLE). In the end of the day it’s somewhat the fault of the writers for not deciding in what a lasgun is, is it a laser or a plasma gun.
@@Red-238 the lasgun is very reliable, more so than a normal rifle, one because no/low moving parts, and also because the average lasgun is of higher quality than the average normal rifle, because they’re more common, because a lasgun needs almost no supply chain, as the power packs can be recharged like any way, including throwing into a fire, since the imperium dedicates far more time into producing lasguns for the Astramilitarum, the basic lasgun is actually quite a brilliant piece of kit, that is manufactured in quantities that make it affordable
@@Red-238 You forget that mass does not equal heat. You also forget that SUN RAYS literally have mass, like 0.000000000000000000001 or wahtever. But because they traverl at the speed of light DUH, they generate heat.
"Heavy autocannon fire sprayed the roof of the building, churning up its pebbled surface and shredding human flesh. The men who had been awaiting rescue in the flyers were the first to die, ripped apart in seconds by the heavy calibre, armour piercing shells. Vedden screamed as an autocannon shell clipped him, instantly shearing his leg from his body in mid-thigh. He collapsed, dragging the girl to the ground with him.
The Ultramarines scattered, firing at the ornithopters, but their bolter rounds were ineffective against the armoured undersides of the gunships.
Learchus sprinted forward, diving to the ground to gather the girl in his arms and rolling on top of her as the ornithopters shells ripped towards her. He supported his weight on his elbows so as not to crush the girl and felt the powerful impacts hammer into his back plate. He offered a short prayer of thanks to his armour for standing firm against the traitorous fire."
Nightbringer pg. 161-162 Autocannons aren't doing shit. It's dumb to use an obviously future sci-fi material that is directly stated to have properties that the current real life doesn't have to downplay their armor. "Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second." Know No Fear "Only Mingzhou kept some measure of in her head. 'He's over twenty-five hundred meters away.' she assured them. 'Someone with the best lasrifle on Castellax couldn't pick off a target from that range. We have to get out of here before he can close the distance.' As she spoke, Algol raised his arm, the graceless bulk of a bolter clenched in his fist. Without pause or hesitation, the Space Marine fired. From the other side of the tractor, Deacon screamed and fell, his chest ripped to splinters by the bolter's explosive shell. ...before Algol fired again, the legionary's shots smashing into the engine block. ...Almost casually, the Iron Warrior adjusted his grip on the bolter, tilting the barrel downwards ever so slightly. ...The bolter cracked again. Taofang cried out as he watched Mingzhou's body jerk up and strike the underside of the tractor. Her body slumped back against the side of the ferrocrete paving, blood streaming from her shattered flesh. Instead of closing upon her and coming within the range of the sniper's rifle, the Iron Warrior had fired his shot into the floor several meters in front of the tractor, deflecting his shot so that it arced beneath the vehicle and struck the woman hidden there." SoC, Pg. 345 They can aim both faster and further than Helldivers. "The Boltgun, also commonly referred to as the Bolter, is the standard weapon of the Adeptus Astartes and Adepta Sororitas. A .75 caliber weapon, the boltgun works similarly to a grenade launcher firing a relatively small explosive; an initial ballistic charge launches the bolt in the same way as with an autogun, after which the explosive, commonly called a 'bolt', is self-propelled." Index Astartes III, pg. 58 Literally the first paragraph in the wiki for the Boltgun, how can you be so wrong? It's first fired like an 'autogun', which is just a conventional firearm, and then its propelled by a rocket. “Plague Marines shot at him. Those shots that Gammadin did not slap out of the air, he took against his shoulder plates. Shrapnel puffed against him.” Blood Gorgons, p.159 "Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon’s fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks." Hammer and Bolter. Redeemed Page 231-232 "Gabriel squeezed a couple of shells out of his bolter and watched the little contrails that poured out behind them, as though in slow motion. They spun through the thick, gaseous air and then slipped through a gap in the lava flow, punching into the kaleidoscope of reflections beyond." Dawn Of War Omnibus Page 258 "As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way." Space Wolf Omnibus Page 269 An Astartes could also just swat their bullets mid air. And they could do this pre-Primaris. Setting aside how stupid it is to try and actually throw strategems at an Astartes, they also have jamming beacons and omni-scramblers that would just render them mute. They have literal superhuman senses, Auspex built in to their HUD, and absorbing all EM waves around you won't hide you from shit. One chomp from a Helldiver would give them all the info they need w their omophagea. This is also assuming that whatever transported the Space Marines hasn't already nuked the Helldivers the second they mention SuperEarth.
Thank you. He severely undersells the bolter and uses materials from the 80s to describe the armor and weapons used in the 41 Millennia.... these guys literally travel through hyperspace, you think they're doing that with the tech we have now? You think they haven't invented a stronger form of steel alloy or plastic if you wanna say it's like the hotrod metal? You think they're putting concrete in their suits? It's just ridiculous that he'd try and compare tech that came out 30+ years ago. They've advanced with the materials they'd put on their absolute best of the best, the super soldiers, to send to combat....it's actively trying to shit on the Marines
He doesn't even acknowledge that the Space marines can change their boltgun ammo types from anything from subsonic rounds, kraken armor piecing rounds, inferno napalm rounds, hellfire caustic bio acid rounds, they even have rounds that blow up before reaching the target to shred a group in front of it like a fucking claymore. I just think it's insane that the helldivers get any weapon and all the stratagems and 4 full squads of recruits. While the space marine gets bolt gun with standard ammo and he says that melee and melta guns are out of the question. So it's 3 space marines with standard bolt guns and ammo vs 20 hell divers with loadout drops and reinforcements and orbital strike capabilities. And he even gave the helldiver stealth armor, and not only did he discount the thermal that would negate it if it worked how he had described. But also if it worked like the way he described by absorbing all the light that hits them? They wouldn't be invisible and see through, they would be black silhouettes. It'd be like if you were completed covered in Vanta Black paint which is one of if not the absolute most light absorbing material we know of. The "invisible" he described would have to come from an active camouflage that would project the terrain that's behind you onto the front of you so don't block anything from or disrupt a view point
He said that they pilot Dreadnaughts to like the space marines just jump in and out of them like they are tanks. And why in the world wouldn't they attack the space ship in orbit are these space marines dum?
As someone who is far more into Helldivers than 40k (but I still know 40k peripherally), I feel like there's a few points being missed here even without 40k bias: 1. Helldiver radar is not map-wide, but only about 75m with upgrades + 1 extra radar circle around a given ping with scout armor. 2. Space Marine biology means they think FAR faster than a Helldiver. They can likely sus out the capabilities of a Helldiver within minutes of first engagement like the range of their radar, etc. as long as they actually survive it and will play it very smart. 3. The sheer speed Space Marines can move at, and their power-assisted agility makes they can easily outrun the Orbital Laser and makes aiming stratagems really hard. Stratagems take at least 2-3 seconds to call in, and that's enough time for a Space Marine to put a good dozen metres between themselves and the stratagem even if the Helldiver throws it ahead or drops it upon death. 4. I think the stims healing you fully is a gameplay mechanic. In reality, I think they just hit you with enough adrenaline and painkiller to keep you moving, and maybe close up active bleeding. However, for the final judgement, I still think the Helldivers will win though. Either they get the first ambush and instantly win, or if they mess that up, they still have turrets, stratagems, support weapons + the ability to hide. Plus, even if Space Marines can knock down a few Helldivers, the reinforcements basically guarantee Super Earth victory. If it was a squad of 4 Helldivers vs. 3 Marines, however, the fight is *much* more variable and up to the individual capabilities and tactics used. For context, the optimal Space Marine strategy would involve using large rock formations to hide whilst 1 or 2 of them lead a frontal distraction, then jump the Helldivers from behind (even if they have a radar, Helldivers don't have the augmented mind needed to consistently notice a red dot on a minimap whilst in a heated engagement) with superior melee speed and capability and instantly cut the whole team. However, even this strategy can be countered by good Helldiver squad tactics which usually involve at least 1 spotter-sniper-ranger who'd easily stop that from becoming a reality. And even if the Space Marines take out 1 squad of 4 like this, such a strategy is prone to slip up at some point as it hinges on the Helldivers being outwitted, and becomes vastly less reliable as soon as 1 Space Marine goes down. That's why I say that 20 vs 3 is a guaranteed Super Earth victory, as the Helldivers essentially get 5 goes, whereas 4 v 3 is a lot closer (although still very much in Super Earth's favour).
Lore wise, the stims physically fix broken body parts, organs and stop you from bleeding out from your abdomen according to the videos played inside the ship.
@glasses2926 You're wrong about the stims lore wise as the previous comment mentioned. You are partially correct about space marines being able to get away from the strategems if they realize what the helldivers actually threw but not all strategems. I don't see them out running an orbital railcanon strike that simply targets the largest target in the area and has automatic tracking. It also fires faster than any space marine can run. It reaches the planet in a split second after it gets shot and the delay to get loaded and shot is very short as well.
@@kenethernandez6246 I've seen Orbital Railcannons miss moving Chargers before, but leaving gameplay aside and looking at the physics: Railcannon is a dumb projectile and, given that it's coming in from low-orbit, will take a few seconds during which a Space Marine can abruptly change direction. So it's not an immediate guaranteed victory. But that relies on the Space Marine knowing it's coming, which even if they have some kind of sensor for incoming projectiles, would require them having witnessed one to prepare for (knowing the timing and what not). Naturally, at least one Marine would give their life for this realisation, at which point the whole issue is moot as prematurely losing a member basically guts any hope of Space Marine victory even in a 4 v 3. And if the Helldiver squad just happens to be Railcannon happy and chuck out 3 of them at once it's over before it even begins.
@glasses2926 I've seen that happen when someone throws it like 80 meters away from the target but not when thrown properly so that's more of an exception to the rule not the norm by any means. Also we're looking at about 2-3 seconds MAX of charge time and half a second between the shot fired and it hitting its target. I'm sorry but space marines are not out running that. They're fast for their size but they are not goku. They're like a speeding vehicle and that's nowhere near the speed it would take to get out of range.
You forgot taht space marines wouldnt charge the helldivers. Why does everyone assume space marines are stupid? every single helldiver would get picked off from 300m away with zero difficulty. There's no contest here
they may have rail cannon strikes, orbital lasers, and 500kg bombs but we have Exterminatus -- Inquisitor, Space Marine, Chapter Master, Lord High Admiral, or Lord Commander.
Helldivers of high rank have armor that breaks physics to make anyone wearing it impervious to any and all damage regardless of force used, dark matter that can be used to create black holes and control space time and John Helldiver who is the equivalent to Chuck Norris and can literally do anything due to being a joke character. You can reach outside of the challenge if you want but so can the Helldiver fans.
@@rougarabidMephiston has stopped time and walked through a Cruiser 4.5km long and repaired it with his mind and then started time again. The Dark Angels have weapons that erase you from the timeline and their Primarch can forest walk anywhere he wants and just appear there. He killed a Squad of Hive Tyrants by himself in the new books. He also beat Angron who split a planet in half in single combat. Any Librarian can take control of normal minds and the Hell Divers would never make planetfall against a Astartes fleet.
@crashatrongaming9398 you have zero idea of the scale of power. Mephiston cam control whole armies if he wants and has beaten 6 Named greater Demons that enslave worlds. Not all Psykers are that powerful but the level is not even close in Helldivers from the Illuminith.
The marines win.They are very fast and run at like 40 mph and can run for literal days.Thay are extremely accurate and their primary is a full auto rocket launcher and are very effective scare troops.The question isn't if the helldiver can pierce and kill the marine it's can the diver react quickly or is he going to turn into a red mist
@@MyopicPowerhouse while yes thats true. remember that you have 20 reinforces. and those 20 reinforces often acts as piloted orbital strikes, they fall from orbit and decimate anything thats in its path. So the tactic of tacticly dying could probably work.
Big fan of both settings, wasn’t expecting such a good dive into both but I’m here for it, sick of people down playing divers, and not often I see space marines held to any scale that isn’t legendary named characters doing shit that gets them mistaken for lost primarchs and I respect it, granted specific numbers are never trustworthy in 40k as it treats a bolt pistol used by a human comisar as the same kind one would fire out of a heavy bolter mounted to a tank
That’s not true. You get everything a Helldiver can have by Chief Rank which is the 5th rank you get. There are 21 total ranks so it’s really not a high rank.
Your assessment of Space marine's armor and weapons is flawed. You made your estimations based on what we can do with modern day technology, and not the tech 38000 years in the future. Bolters have different types of ammunition, which can range from subsonic, to supersonic, to hypersonic. Storm bolters, which are basically just 2 bolters welded together, are said to be able to peirce 8 inches of plasteel like tissue paper. They can also use armor piercing rounds. And just because they're mid range does not mean SMs can't make crack shots from much further away with them. Their armor is also much stronger then you think. The Helldivers autocannon is 20mm, while marine armor has withstood multiple hits from 40k autocannons (which at minimum are 30mm) to the same area without penatrating. I dont know where you got that "can be pierced by handheld weapons at close range" thing from, considering space marine SKIN can withstand small arms fire, but that line either means A. Can pierce a weak point or joint in the armor, or B. Several lasguns shooting an area together for long enough can melt through. You also missed few SM guns like the las Fusil, a powerful sniper rifle, plasma guns, and the flamers, which use extremely potent promethium as fuel. You also failed to take into account the Marines super human reaction times, which can be in the microseconds, or their enhenced senses, which could be used to detect hidden Helldivers, and if they killed one, space marines have the ability to eat an enemy's brain to gain tactical information from them.
“Tech 38k years in the future” Mfs all of it is dark age tech 😂 Saying ceramite isn’t actually ceramite or plasteel isn’t actually plasteel is a very disinegous argument
@@PublicAnemone1 no it really isn't. How? The Imperium is a civilization that can create multiple-kilometer long spaceships and cities that reach into orbit. Its honestly more disingenuous to think that they would be limited by the same technological obstacles as us.
@@voomvoom4522 dude they lost so much tech from the fuckery from the chaos. It's not a bad descriptor to say that in 40k they're in a literal dark age of tech.
Except T'au shoot over the horizon Helldivers throw strategems only 50m The Astartes actually *outrange* the helldivers Easily, too - stalker bolter armed astartes vs AMR armed helldivers... yeah, the helldivers aren't even going to get a single shot on target before they're all dead.
@@MyopicPowerhouse And then the helldivers land on the Marines and if they miss they slap a sticky nuke stratagem on them. They can run all they want but it won't do a damn thing when that nuke drops on them
It depends on who's writing the marines and what the plot demands. There is GW canon that features a conversation confirming that a chaos space marine was killed by a tribal human with a primitive spear. They're super human, but they aren't immune to death by unlucky circumstance.
I will believe this argument the day you get off a 500 KG on a full-speed M-102, that you can't see until the last 100 feet. Space Marines, in cannon, run at the same speeds as the fast recon vehicles Helldivers have access to in the game, except they're the size of a person and can corner as well as a normal running human. They can also basically fly, if equipped with a jump pack, while moving at nearly double those speeds.
Eagles would be easily dodged by space marines what they would have to worry about is orbitals those come in far quicker and with less telegraphing than a big ass plane that could arguably be shot down by a bolter
@@cymoncheng9644 depends, is an eagle a kind of jet, if yes, then a space marine wouldint have time to register hearitn or seeing it before it had gotten within firing range, rifed its weapons, and left the hirison in the oposite direction, dude... you understand how fast even modern real world jets are right? your probably used to seeing videos of passenger planes slowly moving aross the sky... those are thuasands of feet in the air and waaay slower than fighter jets move... mock three by the way is three times the speed of sound, you move in slow motion compared to these things, and so does everything else, including big tank like space marines, they arint doging anything, by hte time the nuerons from theyre eyes reached theyre brain to let them know they see a jet, theyd have already been hit by missiles....
@@shardinhand1243 counterpoint, DO NOT STAND NEXT TO THE GIANT RED PILLAR FOR 2-5 SECONDS AND WAIT UNTIL YOU EXPLODE. And before somebody asks how they would know thats bad, in what reality are you living in where a giant red pillar that the guy your fighting threw is a good thing to be standing near?
Listen, I'm no space marine wanker. But the bolter is a rocket launcher 75 caliber full auto rifle. A single bolt to a flak armored target turns someone to mist. You can see how it works with a weaker version of a bolt pistol in the darktide game. It also has combustion alongside the gas propulsion
You underestimate the power of a rocket launcher. I said it exploded. It’s the power of the explosion that’s not all that impressive when compared to the Helldiver’s Arsenal.
@@rougarabidyou do realize a rocket launcher isn't gonna do anything to a space marine right? Even a bolter doesn't do anything hence in marine on marine combat they NEED to aim for the joints since that's the only reliable place the rounds can penatrate
@@yorukage5926space marine fan trying it explain how space marines take an 84mm round(for reference a bolt is about 20mm) and keeps walking. Also there are 380mm rounds.
agreed, i think that 24 helldivers (4 + 20 reinforcements, only 4 on the ground at a time) stand MUCH more of a chance It mostly just depends if the ones that land can either land on top of marines (pretty hard to do) or manage to get a railcannon strike off before they turn into red mist (also hard to do)
Overall video is good attempt to compare. I love both helldivers (playing every day, solo 10s, vet from first game) and wh40k (played many games, read series of books, watched tons of content, etc.). But tbh, you significantly nerfed power armor (it should deflect autocannon, according Nightbringer novel), where even sniper rifles could pierce armor because of your appeal to IRL properties of certain materials, that could doesn't work in case of fictional materials. Just if we said it`s unrealistic, we should somehow respect universes inner rules. If stim can repair you after unlucky 500kg throw, than it is. I know it's not the best way unless check all possible weapons, but let's say we have to similar weapons, and use it as middle to compare anything else. I would say autocannons of both universes is equal. Then I can say, that SM power armor armor value (sorry) is higher then 4. In warhammer rail cannons of Tau could pierce medium armored vehicles and tanks. So I think it would be valid, if toughest part of their armor is 5 (tank-1) and thinest, weakpoints 4, and visors 3 or even less. It corelates with people in comments who compare SM is like tanks - okay, nice, now eat my expandable anti-tank dude. About forest and minimap/radar - SMs have photolenses (infrared, ultraviolet spectres and night vision) and handheld auspexes, that can detect targets from 50m to 1500m. Why do you think minimap of helldiver would be so OP, if even in-game you unless scout uniform, your scanner show you only targets around you in 50-100 meters? Isn't auspex equal to radar of helldivers? Could armors of helldivers/space marines could be undetected? Who knows, but I don't think someone would had serious upper hand there. More like they both know where their enemies are and they need to think hard, to outplayed each other. About close combat - in game most of engagement happen in range of 2 to 100 meters. It's CQC in fact mate. I understand it's game feature, but you also mentioned that "avoiding melee enemies is really big part of the game". On this distance even bolter could be heavy to dodge, and reaction of marines could play important role, as they could hit helldivers. Because on closer distance your mastery is more important, and therefore astartes would have upper hand in firearm combat. Unless helldivers manage to take them down with heavy weapons, like railguns/recoiless rifles/expandables that fire instantly. Because charging weapons like quasars, or slow rotation weapons as anti-tank encapment is too slow to keep pace with marines speed. About hellpods - it's great weapon against big clumsy enemies, but I doubt that you can managed to kill space marine with hellpod. When I played with my buddies and they tried to hit me with hellpod, I most of time easily dodge that, because you can look in the sky and see hellpod that falling onto you. On certain distance steering system will not allow you to hit target that got too far away. But if hellpod fall on you nothing will save you. About mentioned special equipment: space marines as well have interesting things as shields, jet packs, anti-tank options like plasma cannons or las cannons etc. Mentioned shields could be easily overloaded with a lot of projectiles, that mentioned laser cannon can do. In case of stratagems, SMs have chance ONLY if they know this stratagems, and have idea how to escape from them, if it possible even. Orbital railcannon is death sentance, that is impossible to beat IMO. Only if you fast enough you can outmaneur it... but impact still will be huge. The option I see is hide below something that will block impact or kill those who throw stratagem. The same could be with 110mm rockets, but you at least can hide easier, to not let rockets kill you. Others is possible to dodge, even laser you theoretically can outrun. Orbital barrages, 500kg and turrels is possible to dodge. You can see and hear projectiles/hellpods/eagle that about to start shooting, so astartes, using their senses, could have chance to outrun from places where hell will start. So in the end I believe it's not just easy stomp (unless orbital railcannon spam...) but hard battle where you need to outhink your enemy, where both opponent can wipe each other.
Been a while since I gave y'all a sizable Video.
Discord - discord.gg/atyzDTceyx
Sup rouga got a survival challenge for you. So what do you think about an SCP survival challenge. Like if you picked a few survivors and made them D class in SCP containment breach and saw if they could escape. Love your vids man keep em coming
We love you Rucka
Yooooo!!! Perfect! I got a whole hour of enjoyment today lol
Happy Halloween!
Thanks Rouga, this was a fascinating exchange.
I can imagine firing an MG at the space marine, start panicking when I get the no damage hit marker and start diving away like it’s a bile titan lol
I would assume that orbital railcannon would pierce astartes right through tho
And its aim time is quite fast, just gotta make sure there arent any other large objects around
Alternatively try snipe with normal railgun through their lenses
@@skell6134honestly, it’s funny you say that. The heavy mg they just downplayed was updated because people were complaining so hard, so it actually is a heavy armor destroyer in the game. That means it wouldn’t go through all the armor, but it can go through some of it and has one of the faster fire rates in the game. Spraying a full mag at a marine would probably deal significant damage in the most ridiculous way.
You should try the Heavy MG and MG Emplacement nowadays... And not just that, Helldivers received quite the update on almost their whole kit.
@@skell6134 Literally this. It's a literal Insta-Kill once it locks to the target very fast.
When you use the spear and get a no damage hit marker…….
3 ultra marines isn’t for balance, it’s because he can only spare 3 men
Dammit Ackerman 😢
I mean it's also for balance, helldivers would all be dead before they even fired a shot most likely. Good luck even having time to input your orbital railcannon strike - you have 0.004 seconds before your head explodes.
@MyopicPowerhouse Space marines don’t move at light speed. BUT it actually could he true since heavy bolter shoots 250 bolts per minute and if we assume helldivers are all wearing medium or scout armor and are all standing in ONE place, it would actually kill them fast enough. So yeah, spacemarines definitely have the advantage if every single diver stands in one place and is too busy with stratagems.
@@CF-or3cistratagems takes about 5 seconds at best if you fuck up the code about six times😂, but fr they thrown and come really fast
@@gastoncoscia5031 Yep every helldiver gonna be gone within 5 seconds
That's a good point you make sir
Just need to put this out there.
Dreadnoughts aren't mechs. No space marine can pilot a Dreadnought. Dreadnoughts are only piloted by marines that are very very close to death (think mortally injured or so old they can't fight anymore). Their near corpse body is hooked into the inside of a Dreadnought permanently. You don't pilot a Dreadnought, you 'become' a Dreadnought.
This doesn't really affect the conversation much, but I think it's cool
Poor soles
You're a little wrong there. The Marine is placed inside a coffin that's then hooked up to the dreadnought. The coffin can freely be removed as needed for repairs or to replace a dead Marine who was piloting it
I think the OP was talking about the armor extensions of space marines from some chapters that look like a dreadnought. Basically like a hulkbuster thing
@@Moondougie grey knights baby carrier ?
@@Moondougie you mean the terminator armor?
''Space Marines are not good at stealth.''
Raven Guard: ''I'm a joke to you?''
I thought about that to then remembered that is their specialty. If he had the helldivers fight Raven Guard they would have probably snuck around them like the Grinch was sneaking around Who-ville.
Same wiht the imperail agents and the sisters off silence
Don't forget the terrorist of chaos the night lords
Love the ravens, both blood and guard, but they are far from standard realy
@@Shadow-swordWhat does that even mean? There is no standard. Every legion has a specialization and a role.
23:12 General Brasch has millions of shields generators completely invulnerable to melee strikes, reserved to him and 10-star generals, which distribution center mistakenly sent to every single helldiver. Yes this is in the lore
Every lore bit I read about helldivers makes me love this game more than I did before
@@ArmadilloJohn imagine imperialism with a sprinkle of socialism and EVERYONE loves the first amendment, if you enjoy getting chased by letal shit while dropping suns on them, you would like the game
@@ArmadilloJohn the thing is that devs are having fun doing the lore. Last pach fixed the bug preventing talking to a girl on supper destroyer, wivh has been commented in pach notes as: "she does no longer moan the loss of her favourite goldfish, Goldie. Goldie has been cremated and shot into the orbit of nearest planet. Thanks for your service, Goldie"
Helldivers aren’t socialist. They went to war with the Automotons due to them being socialist (well that’s the story Super Earth told us). Super Earth is suppose to be SUPER Capitalist.
@@gastoncoscia5031but everyone prefers the second amendment
Space marines be like: Okay, Tau 2.0, how long will you be avoiding a melee?
Helldivers: Yes.
Space marine: what this?(Warning you in range of General brasch and john helldivers)
Space marine finally is able to get close to a helldiver and cut him in half
Helldiver in his final breath: ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
@@paisuk6566I CAST FIST
-Malum calgar 2024
@@robertgl9079500kg
@@robertgl9079 “what’s this red light?”
“Delivering Payload”
4 orbial lazers strike on the dreadnought.
The smoke clears
"WHERE THE FUCK IS MAGNUS!?"
Come to Cassor
"MAGNUS! I AM COMING TO KILL YOU!" - Venerated Dreadnought Samuel Hydeus
-Proceeds to chuck singular rock and kill whole squad of four divers, in different places mind you.
To be fair, we've already seen Tau weapons pierce their armour, the Damocles Crusade.
Are y’all high or smthn the laser would melt a dread
The space marines be like, why do these kriegsmen look different?
"And why is he throwing a weird looking orb at me?"
@@LilShrimp01
Eagle 1: "Eat Liberty!"
SM: Oh no I am now ded ;-;
Few corrections
1: Helldivers do not join at age 7, they recruit at age 18. Super earth has legalized child labor but not child soldiers
2: The helldivers and the SEAF are two separate branches that recruit separately
3: Kids are given a gun at age 16 not 10
4: The bolter uses a hybrid system, it uses a gunpowder like propulsion system first, and the gas kicks in on a delay after it leaves the barrel
5: The autocannon, based on my own guess from looking at the rounds, is more likely a 30mm round that can come in explosive and flack
6: Autocannons are actually real, we use them on the Bradly
7: Orbital Lasers don't phase through things
8: The mechs are the Emancipator and the Patriot
9: The armor that absorbs all light won't make you invisible, it'll make you a weird black blotch
Outside of that you clearly did your research and the ministry of truth approves. Good video!
A correction if I may, he did say that the child soldiers were only apart of the basic infilantry and not the helldivers
@enderdefendr3125 yea but they just don't have child soldiers to my understanding
@@dukeynukey6725 if my memory serves they don't join a 7 but they go to military school to jump start training. Something like the Spartans. You a soldier?
@@dukeynukey6725 Super Earth has its war culture built in to everything. They are a war society. I think they would replace Boy Scouts with training camps
the armor of the helldivers can make them a black blotch but the space marines have fought worse for example lictors which are tyranids that have Chameleonic Skin the bends light to perfectly match the background and are ambush warriors.
They wouldn’t fight, they would share a super-beer while they kill aliens
They would srare tech I could see this as crossover
True... untill the space marines ask them if they believe In the God emperor and...well...
Helldivers also aren't too on board with the whole messing with human genetics
would last only until the government of super-earth decides that the imperium could use managed democracy. Which relies on an AI... yeah I dont think they would like eachother very much
@@marrowseer0881 no they wouldn't. that's black templars and even then they realize they can't expect the same faith from their comrades. The vast majority of space marines do not think the emperor is a god or even someone to worship.
There is a John helldiver type character in 40k, his name is Sly Marbo and he’s fantastic.
Yes but he is not a space marine
Sly Marbo is John Helldiver.
No, it's me
Malum caedo
@@drakoslaydjohn helldiver was secretly alpharius
Some corrections here. Every Marine has time in the Scout company as a Sniper, time as a Assault Marine close quarters, time as a Devestator so heavy weapons and then to the tactical company to learn flexibility. They are by nature multi tools, once they are a full battle brother and become a Sergeant they are sent back to what they are best at to lead others. Even tactical Marines with Stalker Bolters hit targets at 2 kilometers pinpoint shots. The snipers are hitting targets 3-5 kilometers normally. And any brother who gets to injured to be fixed is put in a Dreadnought to fight on till death. Also every Marine spends time on the Vehicles as well so they are like SF where they have specialty but can do everything.
I’m surprised astartes snipers can only shoot 3-5km. The best snipers now can shoot that distance. Also small correction, only the most honourable critically injured brothers are entombed in a drednaught. Like if their sacrifice lead to a decisive victory or something
@randomcarguy2543 the world record is just over 2 miles so 3.4-3.6km and those are records. Those are the minimal ranges for Astartes snipers as the 5 KM range is close to modern tank ranges.
@randomcarguy2543 for Dreadnoughts it's not just the most honored but if the Astartes just became one they will not put him in the Chassis as they are rare but if he has served for a decent amount of time he absolutely will be put in. For them not to save the Battle Brother he would have to be at the verge of death with no other option as missing limbs, damaged heart or lung they just replace them
Bolters are hybrid combustion and rocket propelled. The 2 step process of the bolter firing involves, step 1- the power/chemical combustion that ejects bullet at extreme speed. Step 2- the rocket in the bolt activate the instant the bolt exits the barrel, causing a secondary booming sound after the first chemical explosion, this prevents too much barrel damage due to pressure. This further increase in speed surpasses small rocket speed or chemical combustion bullet speed individually. That's the reason boltguns have such high recoil, and such penetration power. Bolters are also available in gas propelled variants, but that's only reserved for stealth missions as these one's are compatibly silent, but the common Godwyn patter bolter uses the 2 step process mentioned above. The explosion of the bolter is very loud, like a boom, showing its immense power of the propellent as well as the chemical combustion.
this guy does NOT know the lore
Alright but 🔼▶️🔽🔽🔽
@Cheese-k5f 😂, indeed.
@COULY_GALLO01-yo6sg This is what a few minutes of searching led me too :-
A Bolter works by firing a .75-.998 caliber rocket propelled grenade out of the barrel using gunpowder. Once the shell is out of the barrel, its rocket engines activate and accelerate it further towards the target.
Please let me know where I could learn more about the bolter, I like the lore and try to know more about it.
Im not gonna sugarcoat it ➡️⬆️⬇️⬇️➡️
I've seen what kills Space Marines, I have no doubt that Helldiver strategems can do the trick.
The issue is the Space Marines standing sill long enough for the hit to land, and not utterly demolishing the divers with a bolter on contact.
The strategems have the ability to stick to a target, so if the helldivers chuck a bomb at them it will sitck to whatever part if them it hits and boom, their dead
Not only would most handheld support weapons be able to kill a space marine, pretty easily, but the space marines wouldn’t even be able to see what stratagem it is, could hit the deck and get behind cover for a resupply drop while the hell divers just leave in the car
The main thing is that the big beams from the stratagems wouldn't be visible to the Space Marines. At first at least, they'll likely just assume it's a grenade of some kind. And even if they did move due to correctly assuming it could harm them, if the helldiver called down an orbital railcannon strike, the space marine is fucked anyway because that shit is ultra hypersonic.
That stratagems can also stick to living things. While the red stratagems in game don't follow the beacon after it lands, The blue and green ones brought by hellpods do. So if the helldiver stuck a hellpod-brought stratagem to a space marine's armor, that space marine is dead.
Orbital railcannon
@Rdr2solos To be fair, this is also living under a couple assumptions. One is that they get hit in a way that the stratagem sticks. The next is them not reacting, realizing, and then removing the foreign object with optimal force and use. (Such as returning their own armament back at them or throwing it farther away.) Another would be assuming they don't close distance fast enough seeing as from my studies, a Space Marine (on average, not the named main character ones) can run between 43 - 50 mph. But, I do think that the Helldivers can overwhelm the Space Marines.
You're misunderstanding how the bolter rounds work:
"As well as the rocket propellant, a small conventional charge is also utilised. This charge is strong enough to force the bolt out of the barrel at a significant muzzle velocity, and simultaneously ignite the bolt's propellant. The rocket-propellant is precisely fused to ignite immediately as the bolt leaves the barrel, alleviating any possibility of pressure build-up. The bolt then accelerates toward the target under its own power."
This is described to be more like a rocket-assisted projectile. We use similar technology in howitzers and artillery in modern day warfare. Obviously these aren't lobbing M109 shells, but the delivery mechanism is different than a rocket launcher. One major difference between a howitzer RAP and a bolter round is that the bolter's rocket ignites immediately after leaving the barrel while a howitzer's round ignites its rockets about 7 seconds out to keep up its momentum.
Also using IRL Ceramite for 40k Ceramite is a silly ass thing. IRL Ceramite is a specific brand of bauxite based ferroalloy. It's copyright date is 1 year after 40k was invented. Plus it's obscure a shit, and I think you're giving the GameDevs too much credit to even know about it. Like Plasteel it's to be treated as some Sci-Fi bullshit material. Which is not referring to the hot rod metal, but instead it's literally ripping off Plasteel from Dune without even changing the name.
www.startupwala.com/trademarks-registration/search-CHENNAI-CERAMITE-500554
That said, I'm not going to argue that Helldivers can't penetrate their armor. Sisters of Battle are considered glass-cannons and they roll up in power armor. This is consistent with every media they are portrayed in too. They only reason they're not walking tanks like Space Marines is because they're not genetically modified super soldiers.
Final comment: A handheld auspex scanners can detect enemies up to 1,500 KM, which still gives the Helldivers way better detection range. This does mean that Space Marines can detect them, perhaps far enough away before the firefight even begins. This still lets the Helldivers set the battlefield though. One thing to note, Helldivers' invisibility could be negated both by the auspex and built-in preysense goggles. Preysense goggles are thermal-vision goggles that detects anything with a heat signature. A standard Space Marine helmet has this technology built into it with a few additional settings that probably aren't really going to come into play too much. On the topic of the helmet, they have built-in auspex links that lets them directly relay information acquired from the auspex into their combat interface. So if one guy detects someone hiding in a bush, then everyone in the squad will be aware of that guy hiding in the bush.
Thank you. He severely undersells the bolter and uses materials from the 80s to describe the armor and weapons used in the 41 Millennia.... these guys literally travel through hyperspace, you think they're doing that with the tech we have now? You think they haven't invented a stronger form of steel alloy or plastic if you wanna say it's like the hotrod metal? You think they're putting concrete in their suits? It's just ridiculous that he'd try and compare tech that came out 30+ years ago. They've advanced with the materials they'd put on their absolute best of the best, the super soldiers, to send to combat....it's actively trying to shit on the Marines.
He doesn't even acknowledge that the Space marines can change their boltgun ammo types from anything from subsonic rounds, kraken armor piecing rounds, inferno napalm rounds, hellfire caustic bio acid rounds, they even have rounds that blow up before reaching the target to shred a group in front of it like a fucking claymore. I just think it's insane that the helldivers get any weapon and all the stratagems and 4 full squads of recruits. While the space marine gets bolt gun with standard ammo and he says that melee and melta guns are out of the question. So it's 3 space marines with standard bolt guns and ammo vs 20 hell divers with loadout drops and reinforcements and orbital strike capabilities. And he even gave the helldiver stealth armor, and not only did he discount the thermal that would negate it if it worked how he had described. But also if it worked like the way he described by absorbing all the light that hits them? They wouldn't be invisible and see through, they would be black silhouettes. It'd be like if you were completed covered in Vanta Black paint which is one of if not the absolute most light absorbing material we know of. The "invisible" he described would have to come from an active camouflage that would project the terrain that's behind you onto the front of you so don't block anything from or disrupt a view point
Doesn’t the stealth armor take in all radiation though, that means no heat sig
bolters do have an initial propelling charge but based on the size of a bolter round and most depictions there's no way it's going anywhere near the velocity of autocannon rounds. at most ~mach 1 and probably subsonic.
@@irregularguy6465 No and no. Based on the descriptions from the novels and literally all of the actual media, bolters are absolutely way stronger than Rouga is trying to portray it here.
Bolters are described in lore very similiarly to how you described the auto cannon
They are similar in a lot of ways. Difference is the method of delivery and explosion size. Overall the Autocannon is stronger but the Bolter is fully automatic.
@rougarabid one fun fact about the bolters. They were created to find against regular lighty armored humans during the great crusade
@@slasher7991Nah they originally meant to fight orks, Astartes bolter is huge overkill against regular dude in flak armor.
@@Steir12 i was wrong about it being created to fight humans during the great crusade because they existed since daot. However their purpose in the hands of space marines was originally to fight lighty armored humans, the overkill is the point.
jar 5 sounds more similar to bolter and eruptor maybe buts its a bolt action
So here's a sentence that turned into an essay for me. A lot of space marine equipment designs are repurposed from mining equipment blueprints that their superhuman physiology lets them use effectively in combat. People put waay too much stock in their equipment and sometimes not enough on their biology. Look up "transhuman dread" and you'll see that the games do the same thing as Halo does to Master Chief, they get nerfed for our little non-super brains. They have processing power well beyond any human brain and basically play with aim hacks. I really don't expect anyone to read all of 40k lore for a video, but the games nerf their feats while keeping their equipment kind of on point, and if we're going with cannon Helldivers, I think we should also use Cannon Space Marines.
Still, I agree with your assessment. If the helldivers have their super carriers, then the marines get cooked in their armor with repeated napalm strikes while the Divers swarm around them, overwhelming them with mobility and semi-expendable numbers. The Marines wouldn't be massacred like you assumed, since they're physically faster and have better tactics than any human, but taking corners can be tough and eventually they will slip up, even if it takes a few hours and more than half Helldiver casualties.
Sorry for the aneurism this probably caused. John Helldiver was one of the lost Primarchs confirmed!
I love these kind of corrections! I feel like just being in 40k as a whole nerfs tactical prowess some though. The dogma that each chapter so rigidly sticks to is really cool from a lore perspective, but these fuckers commonly live to see 50+ years of service, with many having hundreds. YOU HAVE TIME TO MASTER MANY STRATEGIES AND FORMS OF COMBAT, NOT JUST THE ONES THAT HONOR YOUR ABSENTEE DADDY AND DECEASED GRANDAD. Spamming your favorite strategy in every encounter and brute forcing the win through superior biology and the determination to sacrifice anything for the victory is not tactical mastery.
I think most other sci-fi soldiers are more tactically capable than the forces of the imperium because they aren't blindingly loyal and obedient to the Big E, so they can think outside the box and change their tactics much more readily and drastically than any forces of the Imperium.
@@williammell845 the raptors would like a word
@@declicitous1763 Well shit I might have a new favorite Space Marine chapter. Right from their wiki "...have learned to adapt to changing circumstances so well that they have flourished where other Chapters would simply have had their names added to the ranks of the fallen."
It's really the exception that proves the rule though. The vast majority of the Imperium of Man will disregard new ideas or ways of doing things.
@@williammell845 oh for sure, but they are definitely the gold standard for space marines, and show how deadly the imperium could be with actually capable leaders and stratagists instead of the glory seekers and zealots that are in charge
@@declicitous1763 Yeah, its kind of the whole point of the Imperium that it is capable of so much more, but it is locked in it's terrible situation by the hostility of the galaxy around it and the zealotry of people within it.
The Helldivers are actually quite similar to the Tau, another 40k faction. The Tau also avoid melee combat, have great small arms weapons and they also love mechs. They would probably be a much better match-up for the Helldivers, as the Tau fight like a modern army, while Space Marines fight like honorable knights/shrieking berserkers clad in futuristic power armor. 40k is basically a dark fantasy setting wearing a Sci-Fi disguise.
There's even a joke about the Tau that every piece of art of them shows them losing, as if they were winning, the enemy would be 10 miles away.
The Helldivers would probably always have ranged advantage. They can easily reposition if need be and can be dropped in literally anywhere on a planet's surface in less than a minute. I think in all reality this is what would happen given the specified numbers:
1. Helldiver dies in Melee range since that's pretty much the go-to for ultramarines
2. The next guy that gets called in either crushes a marine with his hellpod or gets dropped in half a mile away
3A: Marine gets crushed by the 4 tons of steel dropping in from low orbit, helldiver gets killed instantly by the next marine
3B: Helldiver is far enough away to call in a stratagem on the marines, probably gets his friends killed while taking out the strike team with an orbital laser
Few key points:
1.) The standard Space Marine squad size is between five and ten tactical marines. Primaris Marines are normally deployed in squads of three as the minimum; We see this in the Space Marine 2 game because two of the main characters are Primaris Marines.
2.) Bolters get the rep they do because there are not only a ton of different kinds of them, but also a wide variety of munitions that they fire. The important thing is that they Do fire at standard muzzle velocity, because they are propelled by a two-stage system that has them leave the barrel and normal muzzle velocity for that caliber of bullet. The gyro jet keeps them at that velocity, through their entire flight, unlike a normal bullet which quickly loses kinetic energy as it travels. This is confirmed by their depiction in the lore as having insane recoil, as a gun only powered by a gyro jet would have basically no recoil. They also have an immensely dense core that increases their weight far beyond a standard bullet-meaning they hit harder-and a specialized tip that is designed to penetrate standard armor, so the bolt detonates inside the target. One of these hits any helldiver, they're dead.
3.) Space marine armor is made of Ceramite and Plasteel, which share names of real-world materials, but are not the same thing. Space Marine ceramite is close to what we call ceramite, but better. Plasteel, by contrast, is a portmantua of 'plastic' and 'steel' because it is a purely fictional material with the consistency of plastic, but the tensile strength of steel. It is canonically stated as being created during the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind was at its technological peak; Back when they had Star Snuffers that devoured stars to harvest resources. Frankly, that bolter rounds can penetrate space marine armor says a lot more about the potency of bolter rounds than it does the 'weakness' of the power armor.
4.) Space marines are not specialist. All Marines start as scout marines, at base level, and are only allowed to advance once they have proven themselves expert-level marksman, as well as highly adept stealth infiltrators. From there they become assault marines, then devastator marines, mastering first melee combat and then heavy-weapons training. Only then do they become 'Tactical Marines' which are the base-line for what it means to be a full-fledged Space Marine.
Side Note: I think a Helldiver could kill a Space Marine, in the same way an Imperial Guard could kill a space marine. They have anti-tank grade weaponry, so if they get the shot off, they'll probably kill the Marine. I just find it unlikely that the Helldivers would survive first contact with the Space Marines, because the Marines are better scouts that don't need to call in specialized weapons to delete their enemies. After the first wave of Divers is taken down, they lose all stealth as hell pods are not stealthy, and Marines travel at 60 KM/Hour and weigh the better part of a ton. The instant one leaves a pod, they become jelly on the nearest Marine's giant pauldron.
I'm a Helldivers fan, but the Ultramarines can easily kill the helldivers because:
They have super hearing, they can't get snuck up on as long as they know something is out there (can filter out/enhance different sounds, such as footsteps)
They have previously fought nearly invisible enemies (eldar) with insane reaction times and are faster than an Eagle strafing run's call in time (eagle is also.. well.. a plane so you can see that sorta stuff rather easily) I also assume that the Ultramarines know about stratragems, as their mission is to kill the helldivers.. meaning they can run away (and I mean AWAY) when they see a helldiver throw anything near them
The fight:
The HDs call in their supports/backpacks, the marines notice the hellpods coming in (Marines are known to teleport, but even if they arrive same time as the HDs the supports still need to be called in) at this point they both know where the enemy is (aproximately) and the marines can just run there since they don't need any prep time! I'm not gonna argue that the marines can withstand anything the helldivers "throw" at them but.. they do run at 60km/h which is faster than a helldiver can aim/call stratragem! now they're all dead, a new group gets called in but guess what? the marines can just split up, dodge the pod (again, insane speeds) kill them, one remaining but tf he gonna do? he's on cooldown! Then repeat until all dead.
Conclusion: Your whole "HDs win ez" relies on the marines not having hearing, reflexes and speed (Which they all have by default, the 60km/h isn't even the maximum they can run, it's the speed they would use due to exhaustion) Super earth is known to just not give a sh*t about HDs meaning replacement divers don't have support weapons, they're practically naked, meaning the only real threat to the marines are the OG divers that land first and those ones are useless, the most they can do is kill 1 marine before the rest notice them and camp them.
Not to be that guy, but space marine strike force is usually a larger formation at company level or higher, utilising broader range of weaponry and equipment.
Theres no 3-man official unit. We have the squad at 5-10 man. I guess someone took all their info from SM2.
He's also ignoring the fact that the only reason space marines engage in so much melee combat is that the enemies in 40k demand that you be proficient in melee combat.
I have no idea why any marine would charge at 20 regular humans milling around looking for something to throw glowing red balls at.
Every helldiver would just get picked off from 300m away easy peasy....
We're talking about 100+ year old super soldiers
Heck, even modern Navy Seals would win this matchup! Let alone Astartes!
@@MyopicPowerhouse id suspect modern day navy seals probably wouldnt have a good time vs dudes wearing armor that can tank bullets and that fire literal lasers and plasma whilst having a massive intel advantage with wrist mounted radars that give away exact enemy positions within 100-150m. That dont just have aerial superiority but orbital superiority man. Unless you wanna argue the us military has counters for flying giant arsenals that stock a fuck load of mini nukes.
Navy seals are good soldiers but i dont think their effectivness fighting a buncha goat farmers in the middle east translates 1 to1 to an enemy that outperfoms them in all but probably number of troops available and alledgedly maybe training if you buy into the devs thinking 4 man elite squads with on demand close air support and orbital cannons is a "grunt fantasy"
Marines need to get the drop on divers. Or they will find out real quick how fast a diver can enter a code for a railcannon/orbital laser. Or if they wanna ge into a snipe off hope they like shielded enemies with railguns.
@@SuperVideoman2012 lmao.
Modern navy snipers would easily take the W. You're severely underestimating them and placing WAY too much faith in a helmet to not let through a 50. cal round.
Also did you just call helldivers "elite"?
The tooltip that says "You are Super Earth's elite, never forget that" is propaganda, you realise that right?
Helldivers are all fresh out of basic training. They train, are frozen in cryostasis, and the next thing they know they're diving into a combat zone.
No, they aren't elite.
@MyopicPowerhouse brudda if you think theyd fight the same way as they do vs literal bugs then i got news for you but even if their armor doesnt stop it and were assuming atm their snipers get the drop on them they can bring literal energy shields that block rockets so it would be plinking their shield and then they dive for cover. Also their military training starts at 7-10 years old. If you really think all the training they got was what we did as a tutorial then people must have evolved a reload organ in their brain in the future because normal fresh conscripts dont do what helldivers do with their guns.
Just watch the entire video my man.
Most of these points come up. If the diver can face of against the illuminate i highly doubt some marines with regular snipers are gonna do much and thats already being generous and assuming they got 50 call snipers wich is not standard issue afaik.
Thats also assuming they can all even spot the helldivers at all. Wich is a lot more of an issue than you think it is. 300m out theres a good chance you arent gonna see them at all. Lucky if you even do within a 100m. Any big fortified positon just needs 1 diver to get semi close and literal giant cannons in low orbit start to shell it.
Marines would probably manage a fight vs SEAF. Helldivers whos only mission is to just kill them tho? not so much. Best you could argue is marines might be able to ambush them if the divers have an unrelated mission objective.
even in that situation theres bubble shields and literal space lasers to consider. During such ambushes.
Whats more suprising is you listening to devs that consider fighting thousands of enemies with insane amounts of on demand airsupport and literal space ship close support a grunt fantasy. The grunts are SEAF (can be literal child soldiers and where most divers come from) the divers on the other hand are the dudes that go on insane suicide missions outnumbered 200 to 1 and actually do their missions anyways.
@@SuperVideoman2012 Unfortunately brother, you're talking to someone who would gargle the balls of Games Workshop at every turn they get, considering they've been bootlicking Space Marines in every single reply, ever.
Not to glaze bolters, but they shoot like regular bullets and only start rocketing once they're out of the barrel so they can continue accelerating. So they're supposed to be faster than the average bullet by the time they reach their target.
Not glazing just stating facts
@@SpaceTriangles67 Yep. It's so cool!
Thats actually pretty cool, man i hope this is accurate
I wouldn't consider an explosive round a regular bullet
@yorukage5926 I'm only talking about the ballistics. But also, there are explosive bullets irl
Well, helldivers are weaker... But ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
+ Stun grenade
+And EMs based stratagems
Helldrivers: I’m week but he not 500kg
@@cchhiicckkeennss Space marines are immune to stun and flashbangs
@@skell6134apparently not the one in the fucking sm2 game. He died from a small ass bomb…..in full armor….
Every Spacemarine can become a dreadnought if they are critically injured and there's an unoccupied one in the mission area where a mechanus guy can install them inside.
Not every heavily wounded space marine has the honor to become a Dreadnought… You have to be a good Space Marine. (Like, a Veteran or someone special)
When he said a space marine can pilot a dreadnought i knew every point was invalid after that
This is rather biased, and helldivers are more like elite guardsmen units. On top of that, many people have pointed out that bolters are different from how you depicted them in the video, and marines have a larger array of weapons and the standard unit size is a squad which is anywhere from 5 to 10 marines. Plus deathwatch marines are veterans that are selected from chapters to serve in the deathwatch. Also, marines have at some type of ship, with an example being a gladius frigate, which has a single squad of marines on it. To end this off marines could take certain types of small arms even without their armor , anywhere from 22 lr to maybe 223 rounds at best, and with their armor, anything short of harming a tank is what you might need for their armor. This is what i know from what I have read or watched, so maybe not the strict truth, but a decent idea of what it could be.
He's also ignoring the fact that marines are 200 year old higly experienced combat veterans vs basically a bunch of hooman doods fresh out of basic training.
I have no idea why any marine would charge at 20 regular humans milling around looking for something to throw glowing red balls at.
Every helldiver would just get picked off from 300m away easy peasy....
We're talking about 100+ year old super soldiers
Heck, even modern Navy Seals would win this matchup! Let alone Astartes!
Yeah, it seems like he likes to cherry-pick lore that glazes helldivers but doesn’t even know how a bolter or terminator works…
this dude forgot about the space marine psykers, librarians op no diff
@@justyouraverage_machine9578 honestly why i dont like alot of his VS videos like how the covenant from halo would apparently lose to helldivers or all of mass effect [including the reapers] this man likes the act like a lore expert in all games he covers but hes definitely not atleast he does plenty of research. but mannnn does this dude fall flat in alot of things like for example the covenant on the ground have alot more than just scarabs like scarabs arent the end of the covenant ground force. youll have drauger/siege engine [which you can see in reach apart of the 2D background they use on that battlefield cutscene] its basically a huge fortress vehicle even bigger than the lich [which is a vehicle of its own] grunt mechs not to mention covenants advanced shielding tech that last i checked literally takes nukes to break through [which UNSC frigates have] not to mention if theirs no objects they want on the planet they arent opposed to just glassing the planet itself and to talk about the troops elites in themselves literally give spartans a hard time and im pretty sure theirs literally like billions of them alone not including the other races like like jackals brutes or grunts.
@ Spit your shit indeed my brother 🗣💯
The following is my accuracy review as a Warhammer 40k fan:
Corrections:
The best of the best from each faction segment
I do not care who you throw at them but If you make a battle group made up of Marneus Calgar ( the dude who literally punched through an avatar of Khaine killing him ), Cato Sicarius ( The guy who 1v1nd a C’tan Shard ) and Malum Caedo ( Single handedly stopped a planet wide chaos incursion by running around at mach 4, even though multiple greater deamons were present, despite the fact that a Changer of ways can just snap his fingers or blink and turn inside out, to dust, into a statue or just make every single one of his organs explode, only to then immediately go on another mission [ And yes the game is indeed canon ] ).
Heavy Bolters ( Granted It's about bolters in general, specifically their ammunition)
Bolter rounds are all equipped with an armour piercing tip and that's the standard ammunition for bolt guns, so unless your using variants like a shrapnel one which explodes before hitting the target, however, It still launches the shrapnel in the general direction of the target, though not as effective at piercing armour It is rather difficult to dodge.
Second, each individual bolt shell actually has in-built sensors that guarantee that the bolt explodes once It is already inside the target. Once again, standard bolt gun or heavy bolter ammunition.
In lore bolters are death producing machines but It in game they have been nerfed for gameplay purposes.
Before the Horus Heresy Bolters didn't actually have the armour piercing tip, as there wasn't really a need at the time. When the Heresy began the traitors actually had the edge in medium-long range battles because they already had this new type of ammunition equipped and distributed amongst their forces, since they knew that they were gonna betray and kill their brothers, hence came prepared. It's one of the reasons they were successful during the early war, the loyalist astartes literally had to shoot the traitor ones more times then the traitors needed to shoot them in order to heavily maim or kill the opposing side. After the Heresy due to the Heresy Itself, the Scouring and the war of the beast when the Imperium had to fight a lot of heavily armoured enemies the upgraded ammunition became a standard one, there was still plenty of chaos marines, so switching back would put them at a disadvantage.
Armour
The armour could theoretically withstand the acidic gas as we don't really know how It compares to the ones the Tyranids use. These guys are an eldrich horror from outside the galaxy, they have seriously overpowered battle forms that are able to tank really heavy weapons like melta's even If shot at point blank, and medium forms with shells that can withstand lazgun fire, they literally have space magic in the form of psychic bio forms that can use warp lightning, they also have passive fear inducing ability, as well as other impressive feats of strength and adaptation. So comparing the two acidic substances is a long shot.
Stealth
The reason why space marines don't really use stealth that often is because everyone there has really advanced scanners ( other than the nids who don't use technology with orks being a 50/50 )capable of sensing them from far away, so why even bother hiding If they already know you're coming? That's the reason why they wear colourful armour, since you might as well dunk on your opponent and give them emotional damage. Yet, despite this they are largely still alive and kicking even though there's plenty of guns that can kill them in W40k. So they are pretty much masters of reverse jumping and are most likely trained to handle such situations. Either you call that plot convince or a combination of training and experience is up to you.
Transhuman Dread
Transhuman Dread: Am I a joke to you?
Terminator armour
Terminator armour: Am I a joke to you?
Power Sword
Might be inaccurate. The power sword statement is pretty debatable. Probably inaccurate though. The lore is kinda vague at times. Anyway, back to debunking. Other power weapons: power fist, unlike the sword, is not made for cutting, It is made for smashing, so simply disrupting the particles of whatever surface It's used against is perfect for its purpose. The reason why in 40k you can have an actual sword fight even If you literally have a power sword is because literally everyone has either some advanced magic or advanced technology that lets them make such weapons.
Overall:
Overall a decent video in terms of lore accuracy, pretty impressive for someone who isn't a 40k nerd. The best legions to fight helldivers would be the Raven Guard ( They have passive warp ability that makes them undetectable when in darkness ), Dark Angels ( They have the same philosophy of hyper specialization), White Scars ( Fast ).
White scars (fast) is why they’re the peak legion frfr
You see the thing is he had a good point with the strongest segment you’re correct those are way stronger characters, but hell divers has John hell diver who is literally stated to be equal to John Warhammer who is the emperor in his prime plus 40,000 Warhammers meaning, no matter what there’s no real winner. If we use the strongest, because then John hell diver and John Warhammer would get into a fight in all reality would just be destroyed, and we just become nonsense And pain
the raven guard dont have passice warp ability, only some of them have due to their genetic lineage, like 1 in a 1000 kinda deal
@@COULY_GALLO01-yo6sg All of them have It, just like all Blood Angels have the black rage and red thirst. There are skill differences between members and chapters but they still have the passive stealth buff from their primarch, not all of them can utilize It equally sure but Blood Angels have various varying levels of control over their own heritage, It's individual, absolutely but all of them still have It, literally in their blood. Granted It's possible that some chapters did lose It, as geneseed does change with different generations.
Just throwing this out there for a few thing, transhuman dread won’t do anything. Hell divers see that as their day to day a bile titan is much more terrifying and transhuman dread is mostly a buzz word thrown around by new warhammer 40k fans
Anton cackled and said, ‘We saw Space Marines today. They saved us.’
‘I noticed,’ I said.
‘You think they noticed us?’ he asked. His eyes narrowed and his brow furrowed. The scar tightened on his forehead. I was surprised that he sounded so serious.
‘Well, they did not shoot us,’ I said.
‘I mean did they even see us as people? Will they remember us and think, yeah, we saved those Guardsmen on Karsk?’
I thought about the fierce, savage face of the Death Spectre. I remembered the controlled, killing fury in those cold, black eyes. I remembered the way he had grunted when I spoke to him. ‘The Emperor’s Angels’ I have heard the Space Marine Chapters called. There seemed very little angelic about them to me. I thought Death Spectres an entirely appropriate name. They certainly looked like manifest death to me, and they had proved themselves to be to all those they encountered on the field of battle. Among all those bodies down there, among all the thousands of casualties, I had not seen one encased in ceramite armour.
‘I doubt it.’
Ivan nodded and scratched his metal cheek. It made a nerve-jangling grinding sound. ‘Like mortal gods,’ he said. ‘Like something out of Scripture come to life.’
He sounded uneasy and that too was understandable. It is all very well hearing legends and heroic tales. It is another thing to find one of those legends standing in front of you, wielding a bolter and filled with righteous fury. The uncomfortable thought sidled into my mind: what if the Death Spectre had decided I was one of the Emperor’s enemies? He would have killed me on the spot and there was absolutely nothing I could have done to stop him. Space Marines have a way of making you feel your mortal insignificance. I was glad they were on our side but I was not sure I wanted to be that close to one ever again.
Anton, as ever, chose to give voice to his own reveries. ‘You know I don’t think they are like us at all.’
‘They are certainly not like you,’ Ivan said.
‘I mean it. I think they have no more in common with us than orks do.’
‘That’s not true. They were men once, if the tales are true.’
‘Once, Leo. Not any more. I looked into one’s eyes. It was not like looking into a man’s eyes at all. And I don’t think he looked back at me and saw someone who was the same species as him. They say they live forever, you know.’
‘They don’t. Just longer than us, if they are not shot.’
‘Yes, but they have a gene-seed in them that is passed on from one to another. That lives forever. Some of them must be carrying seeds that date back to when the Emperor walked among men.’
So for these examples specifically a lot of the trans human dread is the fact space marines are the emperors will in the setting which is just absolutely awful for the average person but for hell divers who don’t have that context they aren’t going “oh my god it’s the emperors angels”
For terminator armor that would be an even worse decision they can’t sprint and the hell divers would just throw lasers at them till they die lol terminator armor would be the worst weapon against hell divers by a mile
Overall it’s very matchup dependent
this is exactly how this battle shouldve went… its a bunch of helldivers trying to throw ordinance at space marines but dies cause theyre panicking trying to play DDR while a brick wall charges at them at 45 mils per hour while their primary are bouncing off
Some Terminids go faster than 45 mph and they have TONS of weapons that will go through SM armor. From 40 mm explosive Flak rounds (which is almost twice the size of a heavy bolter round), to explosive plasma and chemical weapons that eat through tank armor.
@@rougarabid 40mm explosive FLAK rounds that isnt piercing through thats exploding infront of the marine and he will still be running
power armor would need anti armor not FLAK to take down
all the stuff you said here a astartes can survive
astartes are built to survive and still fight even under wounds that would kill the average human (which helldivers are)
after the first 5 seconds it would go straight to the orbital rail cannon, and theirs no running from that
@@Sigismunddagoatultramarine stan trying to explain how a space marine can take an 80mm round to the skull and keep walking(that’s not even the artillery, that’s a fucking handheld weapon round)
@@person9846 im not even saying that he could run while taking a round to the skull im just saying that this autocanon isnt doing much unless you get a headshot
and which good luck when its charging at you 60Mph while shooting
Small correction, techmarines don’t pilot dreadnoughts, dreadnoughts are operated by hospitalized space marines that have been rendered either paraplegic at the least or a quadriplegic at its most severe, a techmarine is pretty much an exchange student taken to the Adepts of mars where they learn how to operate technology and coexist with the machine spirit of certain mechanical objects. In simplest terms dreadnoughts are space marine hospital patients given new bodies in order to return to combat, and techmarines are just losers who get isolated from their brothers because they were chosen to hang out with weird Martian people for half a century .
Ah, paraplegic sparashmelegic, slap some cybernetics on, it will be fine
Only every ACTIVE Helldiver has a destroyer. Most helldivers are kept frozen waiting for the mind of the Helldiver who commands a ship to be imprinted onto their bodies when the Helldiver dies or goes to an allied destroyer. I'm basing this on the fact that every gameplay death is canon, and you can change your body and voice type, which the tooltips say is canon, so for helldivers to increase in rank their minds would have to be preserved in the ship itself.
Actually. The devs stated that every new Helldiver that drops to replace the old are their own individual person.
@@tomfoolery2299 Which to be frank, is dumb. I've heard that every helldiver has his own destroyer, but how is that true if he's sharing it with a few hundred other people? Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@netherwalker1762 They ¨own¨ the ship until death and then the next helldiver is in control of it, this is mentioned in the side wall contract in the turtorial for helldivers
@@mandude-w2z I still think that that is dumb.
@@netherwalker1762 it is but i think thats the whole point, its goofy
To those who care, hello and have a good day 👋❤️
You too, my good sir!
Hope you have a wonderful day
What if I just want an okay day?
thanks you too
You too my fellow earthling
Bolters are actually both combistion and gas ammunition. The gas propulsion kicks in after the round is fired like a regular bullet.
Sort of. The initial charge is only there to get the bullet out the chamber so the propulsion doesn’t cause pressure buildup. It’s described as a very small initial burst and isn’t anything close to the burst real world guns get.
@rougarabid the initial burst is described as launching it at high speeeds.
@@slasher7991 of course that doesn’t mean super or hypersonic. It’s still a gun after all.
Any space marine can pilot a Dreadnought, even the ones not adept in tech, it's just where space marines too injured to be healed are placed where they may continue to serve the Emperor. It makes them stronger, but slowly erodes their minds. The technologicaly knowledgeable ones are tech marines, looking agter the chapters gear and relics.
The specialization part is true, but one must consider, a low ranking space marine might also have 50 years (young for space marines, average is in lower 3 digits) of high level difficulty missions under his belt, that itself puts them high in terms of arms and combat mastery. As per rule 2, these marines are not the rare/special 1000 year old marines, but just an average battle brother.
Happy that you noticed and considered the experience too.
Great video.
I was going to say the same thing.
Yeah, there's a reason the housing for the space marine "pilot" is called a sarcophagus. It's basically a mechanical tomb.
@justin_ogre Indeed, tank + coffin + super soldy = dreadnought.
50 years combat experience isn't of much help when someone who knows exactly where you are and has stealth tech you can't penetrate throws a rock at you that causes a massive orbital railgun that can take down 3 story tall bile titans in a single hit to start tracking you with perfect accuracy. and it's a squad of 4 of them each with 4 (technically 5) replacements waiting in line vs the 3 space marines
@irregularguy6465 Space marines do have experience fighting the Tau, who use stealth technology and lots of weapons from the sky. Plus Astartes would definitely take into account the giant ship in orbit, they would consider it a weapon and make plans accordingly.
Guardman life expectancy. 15 hours. Helldiver? 15 minutes.
takes longer to kill the guardsmen when there are millions per battle lol
a standard guardsman has a standard issue weapon that incinerates limbs.
And yet Guardsman spend 10 of those hours shiting themselves in a trench while Helldivers are out in the thick of it.
@@zipperfingers749 for every ten thousand guardsmen, there is 1 helldiver. Guardsmen are meant to be inexpensive and usually just throw bodies at a problem. Helldivers are shock troops, guardsmen are battle line infantry. A better match up would be like the tempestus scions, or the Lucifer blacks.
@@zipperfingers749 The guardsmen face threats on a day to day basis that make what the helldivers face look like paradise.
Remember, in Rogue Trader, your party fights and kills a Chaos Space Marine.
@rougarabid small arms in 40k are not the same as small arms in the real world in lore this space marine armor has stoped armor piercing 50 cal rounds as well as rapier laser destroyer turrets they fire the same energy as the lasgun a weapon that can blow off limbs and melt most forms of metal a rapier laser destroyer is a scaled up stronger version and could not penetrate space marine armor
What do you think an autogun is?
@@inquisitorkobold6037 auto guns r useless against space marine armor they also are not sander issue the more powerful Lasgun is
@@inquisitorkobold6037 The more apt comparission is stubber gun
While I agree with you... can you please learn how to use punctuation. That was extremely difficult and painful to read.
Cheers mate
This has differed across 40k lore for the tanking of a 50 cal round.
As far as the Laser. Ceramite has incredible thermal distribution and dissipation properties and is one of the main properties of the alloy.
It rapidly distrubutes heat over a large portion of its surface area. Then, it dissipates the heat off.
So using the Lasgun isn't a great one to one comparison since it used heat more than force to do its damage. And the Space Marine armor is quite heat resistant.
I would like to see how the people from Helldivers against the Orks. Also wonder how the take in all light will work against them. It will be entertaining to see him do that one next.
That's coughing baby vs atomic bomb level stuff.
tbh i think it would be a fun fight, especially for the orks. the amount of fire power the hell divers bring can smash many orks to dust, but when a hell diver dies a replacement is sent in, and the fight is on again, the helldivers smash the orks some more, rockets and bombs flying everywhere. the orks join in... Orks have a great time.. the Helldivers have a great time killing undemocratic aliens.... its a win win xD
@@allytank-itykitty7417 To be fair considering orcs hierarchy they pretty much have perfect democracy there XD
The orks have a good foght, the government gets to spend more money on the military as super earth slowly erodes against the infinite orky population of powerful gits
Slight correction: Battle barges aren't the HQ of most chapters, most have stationary strongholds or even whole worlds (Space Wolves have The Fang, Dark Angels have The Rock, Ultramarines have Ultramar, ect.) Battle barges are more of a forward operating base.
I always considered them like a mobile HQ but yeah, I suppose technically headquarters would not be the proper word. Thanks for the clarification.
@rougarabid No problem, and you aren't ENTIRELY wrong. There are fleet-based chapters, it's just not the standard. There's also cases like the Imperial Fists who have a massive fortress-ship called the Phalanx.
@@rougarabid do you not count space marine librarians as standard marines? in sm2 we only see under half the total chapter.
@@rougarabidits their FOB
The bolter round has a speed of about 2200 to 3200 feet per second, which is about the same speed as a bullet on average, doesn’t fix the mini map but the explosion isn’t the only way they can do damage.
Especially since the fact it's a bullet and explosive are meant to work in tandem. The bullet flies inside then detonates creating a nice red mist lol
That's weird, cause I don't think any of their art or video games or cinematics have it going that fast.
By the way helldivers need a damned space ship to kill ultrasmurfs - that`s goddamn badass.
As of the recent weapon buff patch, (which is a cannon event, SEAF implemented "major upgrades" to the Helldivers arsenal) the auto cannon cracks heavy armor, so i think its safe to say its 20mm explosive round.
Arrowhead didn't buff the Autocannon's armor pen in that patch. They didn't lay a single finger on it. They just nerfed everything that was supposed to be 'tank' class. Heavy armor is everything from class 5 and up. What arrowhead did was change everything that was Armor 5 to Armor 4, thus making them medium armored and capable of being penned by the autocannon. It's actually the one change I didn't like from the 60 day plan, because now, it feels pointless to specifically go for weak points if you can just kill it from any angle now.
@@esteban_8224 It's a waste of time to go for not the weakpoints, the weakpoints are literally the quickest way to kill an enemy and if you aren't doing it, you're either fresh and green, or an idiot.
It’s actually a 30mm round. Also people are ignoring the recoilless, which it’s basically exactly the same real life counterpart has an 84mm round, so there is no issue penetrating armour.
Yall completly forget the reaction time of a spacemarine I don't remmember the specifics but the normal person would have just started to lift their gun by the time the spacemarine fires. Also spacemarines do have other grenades like the smoke grenade which would have helped the spacemarines close the distance or place a shoot. Another thing is that spacemarines only have about 2 hours of free time being that the rest of the time is trainning and fighting making them quite experienced with their weapons and being able to be extremely precise. Also it is stated in the lore that spacemarines have a general detection device on all their suits to detect everything around them by about 50 kilometers minimum because of the existence of specified armor for scouting.
Oops I dropped in on the space marine and he's dead.
@@Paintballperson-k2l You know drop pods exist in 40k spacemarines are also able to detect them
@@Paintballperson-k2l Good luck hitting him - but yes, that would kill a marine. Kudos if you manage it!
@@MyopicPowerhouse And if you're in miss, you're in punching range of a space Marine..
@@MyopicPowerhousedon't even need to hit the Space Marine just land near him slap a 500 kg stratagem on him and he can run all he wants ain't a dam thing he can do about it. They all go down
6:45 bro didn't even use general Brash
His power is unmatched
His power is over 9000
Or the shovel man
General Brash would beat a whole space marine chapter
To be fair there is also malum caedo kaldor draigo sigusmund azrael and idk fucking dante not from dmc5
The only thing i feel i can add to this discussion is i think the space marines strategic experience is being way undersold here .... they fight necrons, and win ... ever, they fight tyranids which are way worse than the helldivers bugs, and they fight tau ... the hell divers do not have more effective long range weapons than the Tau do. the thing i think is it wouldnt matter what theatre of war you put them in outside the empty arena the space marines would most likely dictate the engagement, even if helldivers can cloak .. the tau can cloak too ... rarely buys them a win.
space marines fight camouflaged enemies stealth enemies, teleporting enemies, etc. a single space marines frag is on a completely different scale and they can actually throw a grenade way farther sue to natural strength and enhanced power armor. hell divers cloaking will not hide them if they getting covered in debri and tossed around. The space marine NORMAL arsenal is way more varied than you spoke. the power sword is not all that ... because it is actually a pretty common weapon. assault packs are not rare neither are heavy bolters or plasma cannons almost every unit has a special weapon choice, in a kill team which is supposed to be half a squad (a normal space marine deployment is 8-10) the other half of the squad is just splitting for a different nearby objective. the developers stated that they went with 3 because 4 players made the game too easy. Space marines move much faster than helldivers average target, they come up with complex strategies, they aim faster and more accurately, dodge faster, etc. also neat peice of info a kill team is guarunteed to have 1 veteran in it to lead it. there is usually a squad leader and backup squad leader who split to lead each half of the unit. so a NORMAL space marine KILL TEAM would have 1 vet that is older and has been through most trainings and is likely a tactical with a wide berth of available weapons. Check out the following weapons Rouga: Deathwatch shotgun, Asartes Needle rifle, stalker bolter, Spider turret, Plasma Cannon, Plasma rifle , volkite weapons, grav weapons, these are selections that can be in basically any space marine unit and therefore 50% chance to be in a split kill team. they can call down orbital weapon assistance too through the use of drop pods (featured in Space marine 2 BTW).
as in they can swap weapons whenever they want and all 3 could call down heavy bolters and just paste the entire landscape in fire until nothing moves. Di-Pole maglocks are crazy too it allows them to switch weapons and reload hands free. to say nothing of the impact of one psycher or tech adept in the unit like a librarian there are non named non special versions of all of those.
Yeah when i think about it you even see this happen in Space marine 2 .... Titus is put in charge of the other 2 because he is the vet in his half of the unit ... his kill team, yeah he's second company so they are very veteran units, but the pattern would hold firm down the power structure ... even the most basic of units will have 2 much more experinced space marines within it to be the leadership in case a killteam split is required. the other two soldiers despite being in second company longer are way his junior in full years of service ... hes hundreds of years older than them.
Another great example of this is when you encounter the Lictor the first time, most of the marines that were killed were able to fight back against a foe that stealthy and fast ... they may have lost but they knew it was there and they were able to fight it.... aint no way a Helldiver is moving around invisible at that pace. and making no sound, no odor, no taste on the wind.
Dawn of war 2 also shows this pattern of a veteral leader, when it places Cyrus in charge of the Scouts he is actually the most senior member save tarkus who again is leading the tacticals instead of being in the force commanders unit. Space marines sprinkle experienced soldiers within all units so that even if separated form command structure they can autonomously persue the objective. and in case they need to split up to cover ground they have 2 reliable leaders at the absolute minimum in thier bottom ranks.
That explanation of life expectancy is making the 15 Hours line really funny.
Brother, 20 helldivers can't survive EACHOTHER.
The Dreadnought thing was so wrong that it dealt psychic damage to me in real life.
Nope. Dreadnoughts are piloted by near dead marines locked in tombs.
Only certain marines can pilot them making it a specialization ✅
Dreadnaught is tech piloted by marines, ergo Tech Marines ✅
Right on both accounts.
@@rougarabid tech marines is a name used for space marine mechanics and technitians, so thats why people say you are wrong. You don't need to be a tech marine to become a dreadnought
@@rougarabid tech marines are the techpriests of their chapters. dreadnaughts aren't tech marines. they are just dreadnaughts. in theorie any space marine could turn into a dreadnaught. tech marines are the guys that maintain them
@@slasher7991 Yeah I got that now. Unfortunate wording on my end. I honestly just used it as a general descriptor.
@@rougarabid dont sweat it, you were right on most other accounts. i agree that even a dreadnought dropping in to suppourt the space marines would clear maybe 4-5 more helldivers before one of them dropped a strategem that would destroy it.
Kinda sounds like marines fighting Tau lol
Im curious how the fight might change if a single librarian is one of the 3 marines.
Can the librarian negate enough of the Hell Divers advantages?
Regular Librarian or 1000 Son level Librarian. Just look at the ways they could have defended Prospero against the Space Wolves, but Magnus told them not to. Helldivers would lose before even leaving their ship.
@krazycrismore probably better to do a regular more common Librarian, to stay in theme and avoid exceptional bias as he put it
Did you forget that you start with 5 reinforcements per helldiver? That makes 24, plus additional reinforcement budget.
If something absorbs all light, it will appear black, not invisible.
10:23 yeah those aren’t tech marines, those are glorified corpses using a still working brain pretty much as a motherboard for the dreadnaught
If the Helldivers get destroyers, Space Marines gets a Thunderhawk.
Well every single helldiver gets a Super Destroyer as long as they are active. Does every Space Marine get a Thunderhawk?
@@mailcs06 I think every squad would get one.
@@gunksicle ok
I completely forgot about the mini map! Damn thats kind of awesome. Its not even a weapon that was the cause of the Space Marines defeat.
Intelligence is the greatest weapon in war
But even in game the mini map doesn't make you invincible. You can still be charged by a melee opponent and be taken out rather quickly.
minimap or no, the helldivers themselves are still lorewise highly inexperienced and expendable troops with only basic training.
They get wiped for thier lack of experience
People seem to think that helldivers would be as effective as they are with players controlling them... but think about it... every helldiver has only ever dived on 1 mission.
They have 1 mission of experience.
The mission they;re IN right now.
The game makes us think that Helldivers are competant... but we're basically taking the brains of fallen helldivers and re-uploading them into the next one with all thier memories and experience intact!
Not how it works in lore, obviously.
SO basically you have 20 bumbling fools against 3 elite soldiers with 200 years experience.
Fuck you could even make them regular humans with sniper rifles, and all the helldivers are dead easy peasy. They wouldnt even know what got them.
minimap or no, the helldivers themselves are still lorewise highly inexperienced and expendable troops with only basic training.
They get wiped for thier lack of experience
People seem to think that helldivers would be as effective as they are with players controlling them... but think about it... every helldiver has only ever dived on 1 mission.
They have 1 mission of experience.
The mission they;re IN right now.
The game makes us think that Helldivers are competant... but we're basically taking the brains of fallen helldivers and re-uploading them into the next one with all thier memories and experience intact!
Not how it works in lore, obviously.
TH-cam is trying to censor the next line im trying to write... but i dont know how else to write it. Look basically experience is a huge advantage ok|
I'm trying to say you could even just have 3 regular modern day humans with snipper riffles, and the helldivers wouldn't even know what hit em - let alone 3 super elite 200 year old strategists with stalker bolters
@@MyopicPowerhouse thats...not the lore and he talks about that very misconception in the video
20 different helldivers with 20 different boosters, with 80 (mostly) different stratagems would be absolutely fuckin terrifying
Ngl, if you even have to ask this question shows how little of Warhammer 40k lore you understand.
That’s not an argument.
@@rougarabidYeah, it’s a criticism, genius.
@@rougarabid He's right though, you left out the biggest advantage that astartes have; the helldivers themselves are actually really incompetent.
What was your first dive like? How long did it take you to input strategems?
Remember, every diver in canon is fresh out of basic training - the game makes you think they're way more competent than they actually are.
The reality is, you could even take 3 modern day navy Seals with snipper riffles, and the 20 helldivers wouldnt even know what hit em.
Forget 3 super soldiers with super-aim and super-senses picking helldivers off from 300m away with Stalker BOlters, there's no contest here man.
Can't this just be for fun think yes we all know that the space Marines will win they can literally one shot a helldivers and I take any damage from also their arsenal but who cares
@@MyopicPowerhouse I was thinking the same thing. The whole point of the Helldivers is that they die gruesomely. They’re literally fodder for their own universe.
General Brasch punched a Space Marine. Then the Space Marine exploded.
Ministry of truth propaganda. Helldivers have nithing on the angels of death!!!!
Helldiver: Guess... I have no choice! Time to use my SPECIAL ATTACK!!!! ➡️⬅️⬆️⬇️⬇️
Don’t you mean ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
librarians: nope.
reivers: nope im out.
eliminators: what tf was that?
agressors: huh?
6:59 Bro has not met Sly Marbo
Thank goodness someone else was thinking this
Sly marbo would shit on John helldiver
If the 20 Helldivers KNOW they'll be encountering a Space Marine, or, 3, they'll all bring the appropriate weapons.
Then if the spacemarines know the divers are preparing for them they'll also bring what fits
"3 ultramarines,best i can spare is 3"
-captain acheran probably
Although not trying to start an argument or anything I think Space Marines have a far larger chance to win this than this video may state, now I'm not saying this guy is stupid in fact he's quite logical but I'm pretty sure his sources are just outright wrong.
Firstly, there is no way that small arms fire can penetrate Space Marine armor, although there have been some refrences of small arms fire such as autoguns or lasguns penetrating space marine armor, and even if it is true 'small arms fire' in 40k is more likely larger than 5.56 or 7.62 is because it hit their weak parts such as joints and eyes. A Helldiver won't be that accurate in shooting out the eyes on a target that can move 20km/h with ease.
Secondly, bolters are rocket propelled weapons, they exit the chamber with gas and the rockets on the bolt ignite which propel the shell further which makes it about as fast if not faster than normal bullets.
Thirdly, it has been stated in the lore that Space Marines can catch bullets and their reaction time is at the miliseconds, so they should be able to reasonably dodge some bullets if their velocity is slow enough.
Although I agree that the Helldivers can still easily kill Space Marines with things like Railcannon Strike stratagems I think Space Marines can inflict more casualties and not to mention they are extremely intelligent, their brains akin to super computers, which means that on the first engagement the Space Marine should have enough information to combat the Helldivers, and as long as the marines stay away like 60 meters from the Helldivers I don't think the Helldivers can target the Railcannon Strike (40 meter throwing range and who knows the targetting range for Railcannon)
Yeah a space marine can have “helmet assisted targeting” basically aimbot from 1.5 km away which should far out range a helldiver
What about the railgun on unsafe???
The one helldiver in the squad with a robotic arm (Servo-Assisted passive):
"My time has come." *throws stratagem super far*
The helldivers radar doesn't work at super long range (unless you are scanning the area with scout armor). In the game, enemies only show up if they're within about 100m. If a marine is sprinting at you at 60 mph, 100m is nothing.
In fact, I think the speed of the marines is their greatest advantage here. It's totally viable for a marine to outrun the orbital laser or clear the area before the vast majority of strategems go off. They're not going to know that they need to start running when a helldiver throws something at them at first, so I think they do lose a marine to that, but marines are also canonically very smart and the 2 remaining marines aren't going to make the same mistake.
Marines are also canonically very perceptive due to their gene augmentation. Not enough to beat the helldivers in the information gathering game, but enough that it's not going to be easy to get a stratagem near them without them noticing and having a few seconds to clear the area.
Scout armor absorbing all light isn't the same as invisibility. Things that absorb almost all light exist in reality. We call them 'literally anything coloured black'. In order to be invisible, people have to see the light from things behind you. Otherwise, you are a black object moving. It's good, but it's not just 'walk up to the marine and drop a strategem' good.
But yeah, with their superior maneuverability and the helldivers radar not giving enemy pings at long range, this becomes a lot less one sided. The helldivers have railcanon shots, which are designed for targeting single targets and they might be the greatest threat to the marines. I'm not really sure that this analysis leads to either side definitively winning though. Like you said, it's incredibly situation dependent.
even if the radar range is 100m, the fact they can always know where the enemy is is a great advantage for the helldivers. all they need to do then is to lure all the space marines into one area, stay hidden, spam stratagems, and fire every autocannon and railgun at the space marines until the space marines are dead. basically the helldivers have to finish the fight before the space marines can react.
Basically if the helldivers can get the drop on the space marines, the advantage goes to the helldivers. If they can't, the battle is heavily favored for the Space Marines because they're really fast and have insane reaction speed.
John threw a grenade at a 10 bile titans killing them all and then it exploded.
Ok that life expectancy bit makes the divers way more badass
Technically if there armor absorbed all light it would be like looking into the purest black void imaginable and that metal af
It should be 24 helldivers as it's 4 dudes with 5 reinforces each 4x5+4
I can already tell he doesnt know anything about 40k beside "big buff men in big armour" from the first 10 minutes of the video and he can still somehow get "big buff men in big armour" wrong
I can already tell you dont know anything about 40k beside "big buff men in big armour" from the first 10 words of the comment and you can still somehow get "big buff men in big armour" wrong.
@szymonrozanski6938 spread the copypasta
The funny thing is in Warhammer 40k there was this exact scenario that happened except for it was the Imperial guard. I mean pre Codex Astartes Imperial Guard regiments. It was when each Regiment was self sufficient, meaning they all had Artillery, infantry, Heavy Tank divisions all in one regiment. Now the Imperial guard regiments are pretty much infantry that have to request the other branches within the Astra Militarum so they can get tanks or artillery installed. It was highlighted in the Horus Heresy where the Imperial Guard with access to tanks, and artillery were very tough even to Space Marines. A lot of Space Marines died during that, but its one of the reasons why they broke apart the Imperial Guard regiments into 3 branches.
Aren’t they krieg allowed to have their own stuff
@@demonseed1995Yes only certain Imperial Guard regiments who are basically deemed “incorruptible” or basically will basically will almost never turn traitor so they do get combined arms.
Wrong the reason why they broke the imperial army into branches was to intentionally handicap the Regiments in case they turned traitor. For example a traitor infantry regiment would lack the armor and artillery, an artillery regiment would lack offensive direct fire, a traitor fleet would lack the number and equipment to take over a planet etc etc. Outside of certain conflicts like tallarn (and even then it should be noted that the tallarn desert raiders were aided by craftworld eldars in the conflict) The imperial army fared TERRIBLY against the space marines even the solar auxilia who like the custodes were the most elite human army in the imperium possessing the most potent and advanced equipment a human that isn't from the mechanicum had access to STILL took casualties in the dozens for every space marine killed and the imperial army fared worse with needing on average hundreds of guardsmen just to take down one marine
@@XD-sc4ix
“Yeah bro funny thing is the imperial guard is cracked and was similar using combined arms they were able to kill a lot of space marines which is one of the reasons of why they got broken up”
“Uh no actually your wrong it was to deprive traitor guardsmen of combined arms”
Like dumbass that’s the same thing
@PublicAnemone1 👍
if we are able to draw from 30k spacemarines, some of the thousand sons were strong enough to bend reality to their whims. 40k does have a john helldiver, his name is sly marlbo he is an imperial guardsman and has killed dark eldar. The standard intercessor isn't the standard soldier of the astartes. reason being each chapter can only have 1k space marines most of the time go into specialties like becoming a reiver or an eliminator. depending on the legion the chapter descends from can determine much of their tendencies, durability, and tech. The space marines aren't the strongest thing in warhammer but they are the peak of normal super soldiers "the best of decent". Bolters have different patterns and is not always the same strength, there are ones for humans but they are less powerful. The biggest advantage the spacemarines have is the belisarian furnace which doubles their speed and strength. older lore says the bolter is .998 caliber newer lore says bolters are .75 cal, that said though there are different type of bolts too kraken rounds, hellfire bolts, execution rounds, and more. In horus heresy bolters cut through spacemarine armor very easily, so easily in fact that the mk 5 heresy armor had to use molecular studs to get more armor. Most normal lasguns can incinerate limbs and are pretty much flashlights against space marine armor. The biggest question here is which kind of armor is the marine wearing, mk 10 tacticus armor is modular, Gravis armor is impervious to small arms fire, it is slightly less protective than terminator armor. Depending on the squad the helldivers are different levels of fucked.
I'm only 3/4 the way through the video but I wanted to talk about the stealth armor absorbing all light. In reality that would have the opposite effect of stealth. When all light is absorbed you will still see it. As a matter of fact it will stand out during the day just as much as a flare would. The reason is because it would look like a void of absolute blackness. I'm talking the inside of a buried coffin on a moonless night kind of black. So you would see a black void where ever that stealth armor went is my point.
Edit: For the doubters look up anything about VantaBlack. I believe someone on TH-cam painted a car with it and you'll see what I mean. It absorbes 99.7% of all light or something close to that.
No you’re right. I used fully black paint in art class years ago that absorbs all light and it looked like a silhouette. Forgot about that while recording this. Having said that I don’t bring it up during the actual showdown so it’s not something I lean on much.
@rougarabid I'm complaining about it. I'm a fan of your videos. I was just bored while at a mechanic shop so I decided to comment. The only reason I commented was because you said something in the video about them absorbing all light so they wouldn't be seen. I think that's a lore problem, not a you problem
@@rougarabid I miss read your comment a bit lol. My bad. If that came off a bit snippy, it wasn't meant too. I really do enjoy your videos. My comment was meant more for other veiwers.
You conveniently left out the fact that along with ceramite and plasteel the armor is also mixed with adamantium, which is one of the hardest materials in the 40k universe. And no, regular small arms cannot penetrate it. You need at least anti-tank level weapon to penetrate the armor
Not true. The Adamantium is shaped around plasteel and Ceramite plating to make up the bones of the armor so to speak but the plates aren’t Adamantium.
Also it literally says in the lore that small arms fire can break through at close range not that that matters because every weapon that I stated the Helldivers would use was Anti-Tank/Anti-material rounds.
he also left out space marine psykers, librarians are busted
You are ingnoring the fact that in-lore a space marine can make about every single shot from 2 km away, and draw, aim, and fire in under a second, with a bit in a book where some average tactical marine catching bullets.
If the helldivers(stealth armor) was to work the way you describe it, by absorbing all light, the helldiver would appear as a pitch black flat shape, Not invisible. They would stand out very clearly even in dark inviermnts, since they would be significant darker then the environment around them.
Space marines have Auspex, which a full spectrum EM sensor, including radar. Headshots with the plasma weapons, the anti material rifle or the AC-8 could do it, and direct hits to the chest with the recoilless rifle or a thermite grenade, but the problem with fighting the marines is that they're extremely fast and agile for how large and armored they are and even if you did penetrate the armor, they die hard. You need to light switch them. Plus most of them have 50-200 years of combat experience, some even more. So I think no, 3 space marines would probably overwhelm the 20 and kill enough quickly enough that they'd lose their opportunity. They may kill one with a lucky shot but I don't think a personal shield would be guaranteed to protect a diver from a single bolt, so they're at a pretty big disadvantage.
Finally! Someone else says it.
Thank you.
The other thing is... why are we asuming the Space Marines even let the helldivers get close enough to throw strategems?
If Helldivers get to be prepared for the fight, then why do the Astartes not all just have stalker bolters and win the whole thing almost immediately from 300m away with thier near-perfect aim?
This isn't even a contest!
@@MyopicPowerhouse Why are they also only the most basic bitch ultramarines with no kit? None of their various tactics, no iron halos, no assault packs, just basic ultramarine with basic bolter.
@@MyopicPowerhouse Why an emperors name would they have stalkers?
The personal shield would stop at least 1 bolter round. The shield fully absorbs at least one instance of damage, no matter how overwhelming, though the diver still gets rag-dolled or staggered by the force. The shields have stopped 500kg bombs from killing divers before collapsing temporarily, so any follow up shots would do the trick. Though from what I can tell the bolters and the autocannons have roughly the same damage output, so maybe it'll take two to three shots to crack the shield. That's enough time to call in the Orbital Rail Cannon strike, which I think will take out the Space Marine in question. I don't think it's going to be one-sided at all, but I want to give the Helldivers the edge in this one due to the reinforcements. It's going to be a bloodbath, but I think there would be... 4 Divers left? Depending on how the terrain and info wars play out. Unfortunately, the sheer cost of a Space Marine dwarfs the expense of fielding a squad of Helldivers by quite a bit, so Super Earth wins that trade. If each diver has the shield backpack and a railgun/AMR, that leaves 2 slots for stratagems like Orbital Rail Cannon strike and... I think either the Autocannon Sentry, the Gatling Gun Sentry, the Mortar Sentry or the 500kg bomb in this case. I'm leaving the Expendable Anti-Tank and Commando Missile Launchers, as well as most other gear, out of the equation because I do think the Marines would be able to dodge them without much trouble, and the bubble shield pack is too necessary to swap out for anything that loads ammo from a backpack like the Recoilless or the Autocannon. I'm trying to be as fair as I can with what info I have. As far as I can tell during each engagement the Marines wipe the 4 man squad but lose one of their members to an Orbital Rail Cannon Strike, which prompts another 4 man squad to drop elsewhere and start the combat loop again. This also accounts for the Marines wiping a squad with no losses at all at least once, which I think is fair.
a team of john helldiver general brash and the democracy officer could take the whole of 40k just by themselves
honestly you undersell space marine armor and equippment because 1. bolters arent strictly rockets and 2. the material used in 40k isnt like ours
Tech marines do not pilot dreadnoughts and bolters are combustion weapons the gas pedal rock is a second-stage effect after the round is fired
They are Marines who pilot tech. Ergo tech marines. Them being fucked up beyond repair doesn’t make the descriptor false. Point is it’s a specific role given to a specific type of marine and not something any Marine can do.
@@rougarabid tech marines are just marines who are also technicians and engineers it's a specific term that marines who pilot dreadnoughts are just called dreadnoughts it's not like they can leave the armor it also acts as a life support system
@@rougarabid any marine can become a dreadnought. He would just have to be considered great and be crippled in combat, i don't think that additional training is required.
@rougarabid you gotta brush up on your 40k stuff outside of the game my man
@@rougarabidwe have a John warhammer called sly marbo he’s also cannon and is similar to he’s a literal 1 man army who has beaten a bane lord titan and a blood thirster. Also the breadnought stuff you said is inaccurate any space marine can be interred into one. Techmarines are a different thing that specialize in taking care of the mechanical aspects of the chapter so while yes they do work with dreadnoughts on occasion they aren’t the only ones who pilots them. Also Space Marines aren’t the imperiums greatest soldiers that would be the Primarchs then the Emperor bodyguards the Adeptus Custodians who are and I quote “the custodians are to a space marine what a space marine is to a guardsmen”
bolters fire the bolt out like a bullet, so its already going as fast as a bullet, then it speeds up from its rocket motor
Space marine armour may be weak to small arms fire, but the small arms fire in 40K include guns much more powerful than standard small arms fire, las-pistols, and even bolt-pistols are powerful weapons compared to, lets say a AP round in a Desert Eagle (as per my knowledge, this is considered a very good small arm as of modern era). That increases the Space Marine armour defence standard significantly.
No, because small arms fire would include weapons shot by guardsman. Those weapons are limited by recoil and what a normal human man can fire. They would have to be relative to that level of strength.
@rougarabid The most common weapon used by the guardsman is a Lasgun, it is a very powerful weapon capable of destroying limbs, and concrete blocks, and have a ammo capacity of 60 shots. This gun is powerful for modern standards, with a few exceptions, but in lore it is considered an extremely weak weapon and useless when it comes to fighting tougher opponents such as space marines, only huge numbers of guardsman firing at 1 space marine takes them down, this is acknowledged by the guardsman themselves, the weakness of their weapons compared to the threats they face, though the weapon is actually strong. Therefore space marine armour is capable of shrugging, not a few small arms fire but a huge volley of concentrated fire.
@@eiric6958a normal modern gun can destroy a concrete block, it’s not a particularly impressive feat. The real impressive feat of the lasgun is the no recoil, and the near limitless ammo.
@peterhilligoss5697 Lasguns do have recoil, as shown in space marine 2 as well as in written sources before the game was released, plus it has a stock, the purpose of which is recoil management as well as increase in stability for accuracy. Lasguns are said to 'punch' through material as well as heat damage, they are not just simple lasers. Plus only modern high caliber guns punch or destroy a block of concrete in one shot, the average handheld lasgun is on the level of high level modern firearms. And it takes many of them to kill or even damage a Space Marine. That means a handheld pistol and sidearms chances of damaging Space Marines are really low, while it would require a lot of high caliber rounds to damage a space marine, like a guardsman battalion shooting at 1.
@@rougarabid Space marines have tanked shots from guardsman while not in armor. second most the weapons that kill space marines is mass fire or lucky shots to a weakened area and are not reliable or are weapons like hotshot las guns or bolt pistols at point blank range wielded by commissars. And normal humans can fire 50 cals sniper rifles, rocket and rpg launchers, sub machine guns and recoilless rifles of high caliber so no not has limited by recoil has you think. Guardsmen consider a standard bolt gun to be a crew serve heavy weapon while a space marine considers a standard combat rifle which would make it a small arm to them.
3 Space marines vs 20 helldivers (and 4 fully manned giant ships and the many fighter jets that come from it)
" I could pull out ridiculous memey shit from John Helldiver."
*Sly Marbo has entered chat*
According to some sources(though you should probably take this with a grain of salt since 40k can be super inconsistent with it’s lore) the standard lasgun used by the imperial guard is similar in strength if not stronger than .50bgm, which space marine armor is able to take concentrated focus fire from like 12 dudes with lasguns and all it does is singe the paint, though that could be do to ceremite’s heat resistance, idk
Doesn’t matter either way. The Helldivers high penetrating weapons are much bigger than .50 caliber. Besides even if it does say that it’s inconsistent as Lasguns have been shown killing Space Marines before.
That's because you can change the power output of a las bolt. So you can fire a super powerful single shot or a volley of weaker shots.
@@rougarabid Warhammer fans really have this bad habit of picking and choosing what traits their favorite thing has to win an argument, let’s take for example the lasgun, a lot of people agree that the lasgun somehow hits a target with more power than a 50 BMG(as you know lasers shoots photons which has NO mass, so it could not be more powerful than a 50BMG), but now because it’s a laser it has no recoil to the user and the beam doesn’t drop from gravity, now when it hits a target it explodes them because it vaporizes the water inside them but somehow the beam was not affected by the smoke,fog,dust(which as you know it affects the performance of lasers IRL). Also they state that the lasgun is more reliable and easier to clean than a normal rifle (damn imperium has some pretty shitty rifles if a laser is more RELIABLE). In the end of the day it’s somewhat the fault of the writers for not deciding in what a lasgun is, is it a laser or a plasma gun.
@@Red-238 the lasgun is very reliable, more so than a normal rifle, one because no/low moving parts, and also because the average lasgun is of higher quality than the average normal rifle, because they’re more common, because a lasgun needs almost no supply chain, as the power packs can be recharged like any way, including throwing into a fire, since the imperium dedicates far more time into producing lasguns for the Astramilitarum, the basic lasgun is actually quite a brilliant piece of kit, that is manufactured in quantities that make it affordable
@@Red-238 You forget that mass does not equal heat.
You also forget that SUN RAYS literally have mass, like 0.000000000000000000001 or wahtever. But because they traverl at the speed of light DUH, they generate heat.
"Heavy autocannon fire sprayed the roof of the building, churning up its pebbled surface and shredding human flesh. The men who had been awaiting rescue in the flyers were the first to die, ripped apart in seconds by the heavy calibre, armour piercing shells. Vedden screamed as an autocannon shell clipped him, instantly shearing his leg from his body in mid-thigh. He collapsed, dragging the girl to the ground with him.
The Ultramarines scattered, firing at the ornithopters, but their bolter rounds were ineffective against the armoured undersides of the gunships.
Learchus sprinted forward, diving to the ground to gather the girl in his arms and rolling on top of her as the ornithopters shells ripped towards her. He supported his weight on his elbows so as not to crush the girl and felt the powerful impacts hammer into his back plate. He offered a short prayer of thanks to his armour for standing firm against the traitorous fire."
Nightbringer pg. 161-162
Autocannons aren't doing shit. It's dumb to use an obviously future sci-fi material that is directly stated to have properties that the current real life doesn't have to downplay their armor.
"Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second."
Know No Fear
"Only Mingzhou kept some measure of in her head. 'He's over twenty-five hundred meters away.' she assured them. 'Someone with the best lasrifle on Castellax couldn't pick off a target from that range. We have to get out of here before he can close the distance.'
As she spoke, Algol raised his arm, the graceless bulk of a bolter clenched in his fist. Without pause or hesitation, the Space Marine fired. From the other side of the tractor, Deacon screamed and fell, his chest ripped to splinters by the bolter's explosive shell.
...before Algol fired again, the legionary's shots smashing into the engine block.
...Almost casually, the Iron Warrior adjusted his grip on the bolter, tilting the barrel downwards ever so slightly.
...The bolter cracked again. Taofang cried out as he watched Mingzhou's body jerk up and strike the underside of the tractor. Her body slumped back against the side of the ferrocrete paving, blood streaming from her shattered flesh. Instead of closing upon her and coming within the range of the sniper's rifle, the Iron Warrior had fired his shot into the floor several meters in front of the tractor, deflecting his shot so that it arced beneath the vehicle and struck the woman hidden there."
SoC, Pg. 345
They can aim both faster and further than Helldivers.
"The Boltgun, also commonly referred to as the Bolter, is the standard weapon of the Adeptus Astartes and Adepta Sororitas. A .75 caliber weapon, the boltgun works similarly to a grenade launcher firing a relatively small explosive; an initial ballistic charge launches the bolt in the same way as with an autogun, after which the explosive, commonly called a 'bolt', is self-propelled."
Index Astartes III, pg. 58
Literally the first paragraph in the wiki for the Boltgun, how can you be so wrong? It's first fired like an 'autogun', which is just a conventional firearm, and then its propelled by a rocket.
“Plague Marines shot at him. Those shots that Gammadin did not slap out of the air, he took against his shoulder plates. Shrapnel puffed against him.”
Blood Gorgons, p.159
"Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon’s fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks."
Hammer and Bolter. Redeemed Page 231-232
"Gabriel squeezed a couple of shells out of his bolter and watched the little contrails that poured out behind them, as though in slow motion. They spun through the thick, gaseous air and then slipped through a gap in the lava flow, punching into the kaleidoscope of reflections beyond."
Dawn Of War Omnibus Page 258
"As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way."
Space Wolf Omnibus Page 269
An Astartes could also just swat their bullets mid air. And they could do this pre-Primaris.
Setting aside how stupid it is to try and actually throw strategems at an Astartes, they also have jamming beacons and omni-scramblers that would just render them mute. They have literal superhuman senses, Auspex built in to their HUD, and absorbing all EM waves around you won't hide you from shit. One chomp from a Helldiver would give them all the info they need w their omophagea. This is also assuming that whatever transported the Space Marines hasn't already nuked the Helldivers the second they mention SuperEarth.
Thank you. He severely undersells the bolter and uses materials from the 80s to describe the armor and weapons used in the 41 Millennia.... these guys literally travel through hyperspace, you think they're doing that with the tech we have now? You think they haven't invented a stronger form of steel alloy or plastic if you wanna say it's like the hotrod metal? You think they're putting concrete in their suits? It's just ridiculous that he'd try and compare tech that came out 30+ years ago. They've advanced with the materials they'd put on their absolute best of the best, the super soldiers, to send to combat....it's actively trying to shit on the Marines
He doesn't even acknowledge that the Space marines can change their boltgun ammo types from anything from subsonic rounds, kraken armor piecing rounds, inferno napalm rounds, hellfire caustic bio acid rounds, they even have rounds that blow up before reaching the target to shred a group in front of it like a fucking claymore. I just think it's insane that the helldivers get any weapon and all the stratagems and 4 full squads of recruits. While the space marine gets bolt gun with standard ammo and he says that melee and melta guns are out of the question. So it's 3 space marines with standard bolt guns and ammo vs 20 hell divers with loadout drops and reinforcements and orbital strike capabilities. And he even gave the helldiver stealth armor, and not only did he discount the thermal that would negate it if it worked how he had described. But also if it worked like the way he described by absorbing all the light that hits them? They wouldn't be invisible and see through, they would be black silhouettes. It'd be like if you were completed covered in Vanta Black paint which is one of if not the absolute most light absorbing material we know of. The "invisible" he described would have to come from an active camouflage that would project the terrain that's behind you onto the front of you so don't block anything from or disrupt a view point
He said that they pilot Dreadnaughts to like the space marines just jump in and out of them like they are tanks. And why in the world wouldn't they attack the space ship in orbit are these space marines dum?
Either way the nom noms would eat the whole planet and their silly appitizer bugs too.
guys.. i think he likes Helldivers..
I like the idea of HellDivers wining because they are more like normal people and I think that'd be badass
Forget 3 marines im not convinced 20 divers could take 1
As someone who is far more into Helldivers than 40k (but I still know 40k peripherally), I feel like there's a few points being missed here even without 40k bias:
1. Helldiver radar is not map-wide, but only about 75m with upgrades + 1 extra radar circle around a given ping with scout armor.
2. Space Marine biology means they think FAR faster than a Helldiver. They can likely sus out the capabilities of a Helldiver within minutes of first engagement like the range of their radar, etc. as long as they actually survive it and will play it very smart.
3. The sheer speed Space Marines can move at, and their power-assisted agility makes they can easily outrun the Orbital Laser and makes aiming stratagems really hard. Stratagems take at least 2-3 seconds to call in, and that's enough time for a Space Marine to put a good dozen metres between themselves and the stratagem even if the Helldiver throws it ahead or drops it upon death.
4. I think the stims healing you fully is a gameplay mechanic. In reality, I think they just hit you with enough adrenaline and painkiller to keep you moving, and maybe close up active bleeding.
However, for the final judgement, I still think the Helldivers will win though. Either they get the first ambush and instantly win, or if they mess that up, they still have turrets, stratagems, support weapons + the ability to hide. Plus, even if Space Marines can knock down a few Helldivers, the reinforcements basically guarantee Super Earth victory. If it was a squad of 4 Helldivers vs. 3 Marines, however, the fight is *much* more variable and up to the individual capabilities and tactics used.
For context, the optimal Space Marine strategy would involve using large rock formations to hide whilst 1 or 2 of them lead a frontal distraction, then jump the Helldivers from behind (even if they have a radar, Helldivers don't have the augmented mind needed to consistently notice a red dot on a minimap whilst in a heated engagement) with superior melee speed and capability and instantly cut the whole team. However, even this strategy can be countered by good Helldiver squad tactics which usually involve at least 1 spotter-sniper-ranger who'd easily stop that from becoming a reality. And even if the Space Marines take out 1 squad of 4 like this, such a strategy is prone to slip up at some point as it hinges on the Helldivers being outwitted, and becomes vastly less reliable as soon as 1 Space Marine goes down. That's why I say that 20 vs 3 is a guaranteed Super Earth victory, as the Helldivers essentially get 5 goes, whereas 4 v 3 is a lot closer (although still very much in Super Earth's favour).
Lore wise, the stims physically fix broken body parts, organs and stop you from bleeding out from your abdomen according to the videos played inside the ship.
@glasses2926 You're wrong about the stims lore wise as the previous comment mentioned. You are partially correct about space marines being able to get away from the strategems if they realize what the helldivers actually threw but not all strategems. I don't see them out running an orbital railcanon strike that simply targets the largest target in the area and has automatic tracking. It also fires faster than any space marine can run. It reaches the planet in a split second after it gets shot and the delay to get loaded and shot is very short as well.
@@kenethernandez6246 I've seen Orbital Railcannons miss moving Chargers before, but leaving gameplay aside and looking at the physics: Railcannon is a dumb projectile and, given that it's coming in from low-orbit, will take a few seconds during which a Space Marine can abruptly change direction. So it's not an immediate guaranteed victory. But that relies on the Space Marine knowing it's coming, which even if they have some kind of sensor for incoming projectiles, would require them having witnessed one to prepare for (knowing the timing and what not). Naturally, at least one Marine would give their life for this realisation, at which point the whole issue is moot as prematurely losing a member basically guts any hope of Space Marine victory even in a 4 v 3. And if the Helldiver squad just happens to be Railcannon happy and chuck out 3 of them at once it's over before it even begins.
@glasses2926 I've seen that happen when someone throws it like 80 meters away from the target but not when thrown properly so that's more of an exception to the rule not the norm by any means. Also we're looking at about 2-3 seconds MAX of charge time and half a second between the shot fired and it hitting its target. I'm sorry but space marines are not out running that. They're fast for their size but they are not goku. They're like a speeding vehicle and that's nowhere near the speed it would take to get out of range.
You forgot taht space marines wouldnt charge the helldivers. Why does everyone assume space marines are stupid?
every single helldiver would get picked off from 300m away with zero difficulty.
There's no contest here
they may have rail cannon strikes, orbital lasers, and 500kg bombs but we have Exterminatus -- Inquisitor, Space Marine, Chapter Master, Lord High Admiral, or Lord Commander.
Helldivers of high rank have armor that breaks physics to make anyone wearing it impervious to any and all damage regardless of force used, dark matter that can be used to create black holes and control space time and John Helldiver who is the equivalent to Chuck Norris and can literally do anything due to being a joke character. You can reach outside of the challenge if you want but so can the Helldiver fans.
helldivers also have some sort of exterminatus which they used it to destroy meridia
@@rougarabidMephiston has stopped time and walked through a Cruiser 4.5km long and repaired it with his mind and then started time again. The Dark Angels have weapons that erase you from the timeline and their Primarch can forest walk anywhere he wants and just appear there. He killed a Squad of Hive Tyrants by himself in the new books. He also beat Angron who split a planet in half in single combat. Any Librarian can take control of normal minds and the Hell Divers would never make planetfall against a Astartes fleet.
@@eichler721 lol mind control? already dealt with that and overcame it 100 years ago
@crashatrongaming9398 you have zero idea of the scale of power. Mephiston cam control whole armies if he wants and has beaten 6 Named greater Demons that enslave worlds. Not all Psykers are that powerful but the level is not even close in Helldivers from the Illuminith.
The marines win.They are very fast and run at like 40 mph and can run for literal days.Thay are extremely accurate and their primary is a full auto rocket launcher and are very effective scare troops.The question isn't if the helldiver can pierce and kill the marine it's can the diver react quickly or is he going to turn into a red mist
The red mist one.
Every single helldiver would be dead before they even landed a shot on target
@@MyopicPowerhouse while yes thats true. remember that you have 20 reinforces. and those 20 reinforces often acts as piloted orbital strikes, they fall from orbit and decimate anything thats in its path. So the tactic of tacticly dying could probably work.
@@bananapeel2684yes but space marines also use and can detect drop pods it would be amazing if a drop pod could actually land on a space marine
@@derrickmeade4891 ah! but uhhh orbital lazer?
Its borderline cringe how powerful they are.
I can’t believe you have studied the warhammer lore with the amount of minor things you get wrong
Big fan of both settings, wasn’t expecting such a good dive into both but I’m here for it, sick of people down playing divers, and not often I see space marines held to any scale that isn’t legendary named characters doing shit that gets them mistaken for lost primarchs and I respect it, granted specific numbers are never trustworthy in 40k as it treats a bolt pistol used by a human comisar as the same kind one would fire out of a heavy bolter mounted to a tank
Just thought about this, most of the higher end stratagems and support weapons are for the higher level (more experienced) Helldivers
Not sure if this even changes anything but I just felt like playing devils advocate
That’s not true. You get everything a Helldiver can have by Chief Rank which is the 5th rank you get. There are 21 total ranks so it’s really not a high rank.
Your assessment of Space marine's armor and weapons is flawed. You made your estimations based on what we can do with modern day technology, and not the tech 38000 years in the future. Bolters have different types of ammunition, which can range from subsonic, to supersonic, to hypersonic. Storm bolters, which are basically just 2 bolters welded together, are said to be able to peirce 8 inches of plasteel like tissue paper. They can also use armor piercing rounds. And just because they're mid range does not mean SMs can't make crack shots from much further away with them.
Their armor is also much stronger then you think. The Helldivers autocannon is 20mm, while marine armor has withstood multiple hits from 40k autocannons (which at minimum are 30mm) to the same area without penatrating. I dont know where you got that "can be pierced by handheld weapons at close range" thing from, considering space marine SKIN can withstand small arms fire, but that line either means A. Can pierce a weak point or joint in the armor, or B. Several lasguns shooting an area together for long enough can melt through.
You also missed few SM guns like the las Fusil, a powerful sniper rifle, plasma guns, and the flamers, which use extremely potent promethium as fuel. You also failed to take into account the Marines super human reaction times, which can be in the microseconds, or their enhenced senses, which could be used to detect hidden Helldivers, and if they killed one, space marines have the ability to eat an enemy's brain to gain tactical information from them.
“Tech 38k years in the future”
Mfs all of it is dark age tech 😂
Saying ceramite isn’t actually ceramite or plasteel isn’t actually plasteel is a very disinegous argument
@@PublicAnemone1 no it really isn't.
How? The Imperium is a civilization that can create multiple-kilometer long spaceships and cities that reach into orbit. Its honestly more disingenuous to think that they would be limited by the same technological obstacles as us.
@@voomvoom4522 dude they lost so much tech from the fuckery from the chaos. It's not a bad descriptor to say that in 40k they're in a literal dark age of tech.
Agreed
@@AltTabbackspace in the lore the dark age is when they fucked with ai
In fact, what you described is similar to how the battles between a space marine and a Tau take place.
Except T'au shoot over the horizon
Helldivers throw strategems only 50m
The Astartes actually *outrange* the helldivers
Easily, too - stalker bolter armed astartes vs AMR armed helldivers... yeah, the helldivers aren't even going to get a single shot on target before they're all dead.
@@MyopicPowerhouseFAF-14 Spear.
@@MyopicPowerhouse And then the helldivers land on the Marines and if they miss they slap a sticky nuke stratagem on them. They can run all they want but it won't do a damn thing when that nuke drops on them
It depends on who's writing the marines and what the plot demands. There is GW canon that features a conversation confirming that a chaos space marine was killed by a tribal human with a primitive spear.
They're super human, but they aren't immune to death by unlucky circumstance.
With stratagems, Helldivers win 100% of the time. Without, space marines cook super earths finest.
I will believe this argument the day you get off a 500 KG on a full-speed M-102, that you can't see until the last 100 feet. Space Marines, in cannon, run at the same speeds as the fast recon vehicles Helldivers have access to in the game, except they're the size of a person and can corner as well as a normal running human. They can also basically fly, if equipped with a jump pack, while moving at nearly double those speeds.
Helldiver: ⬆➡⬇⬇⬇
Space Marine: dies
death by ddr XD
three space marines pull up, all the helldivers start putting in the konami code.
Eagles would be easily dodged by space marines what they would have to worry about is orbitals those come in far quicker and with less telegraphing than a big ass plane that could arguably be shot down by a bolter
@@cymoncheng9644 depends, is an eagle a kind of jet, if yes, then a space marine wouldint have time to register hearitn or seeing it before it had gotten within firing range, rifed its weapons, and left the hirison in the oposite direction, dude... you understand how fast even modern real world jets are right? your probably used to seeing videos of passenger planes slowly moving aross the sky... those are thuasands of feet in the air and waaay slower than fighter jets move... mock three by the way is three times the speed of sound, you move in slow motion compared to these things, and so does everything else, including big tank like space marines, they arint doging anything, by hte time the nuerons from theyre eyes reached theyre brain to let them know they see a jet, theyd have already been hit by missiles....
@@shardinhand1243 counterpoint, DO NOT STAND NEXT TO THE GIANT RED PILLAR FOR 2-5 SECONDS AND WAIT UNTIL YOU EXPLODE.
And before somebody asks how they would know thats bad, in what reality are you living in where a giant red pillar that the guy your fighting threw is a good thing to be standing near?
Listen, I'm no space marine wanker. But the bolter is a rocket launcher 75 caliber full auto rifle. A single bolt to a flak armored target turns someone to mist. You can see how it works with a weaker version of a bolt pistol in the darktide game. It also has combustion alongside the gas propulsion
You underestimate the power of a rocket launcher. I said it exploded. It’s the power of the explosion that’s not all that impressive when compared to the Helldiver’s Arsenal.
@@rougarabidyou do realize a rocket launcher isn't gonna do anything to a space marine right? Even a bolter doesn't do anything hence in marine on marine combat they NEED to aim for the joints since that's the only reliable place the rounds can penatrate
@@yorukage5926 a bolter will kill a space marine if shoot twice in the same place so like what the hell happened in the Horus heresy?
@@gamers-xh3uc key term being /horus heresy/ by the way
@@yorukage5926space marine fan trying it explain how space marines take an 84mm round(for reference a bolt is about 20mm) and keeps walking. Also there are 380mm rounds.
Btw, is this a 3 v 20 directly, or a 3 v 4, calls backup, 4, calls backup, 4 and so on. That could have a huge impact on this matchup.
agreed, i think that 24 helldivers (4 + 20 reinforcements, only 4 on the ground at a time) stand MUCH more of a chance
It mostly just depends if the ones that land can either land on top of marines (pretty hard to do) or manage to get a railcannon strike off before they turn into red mist (also hard to do)
@MyopicPowerhouse Indeed, of they knew how the previous squad died, they could change tactics.
Overall video is good attempt to compare. I love both helldivers (playing every day, solo 10s, vet from first game) and wh40k (played many games, read series of books, watched tons of content, etc.).
But tbh, you significantly nerfed power armor (it should deflect autocannon, according Nightbringer novel), where even sniper rifles could pierce armor because of your appeal to IRL properties of certain materials, that could doesn't work in case of fictional materials. Just if we said it`s unrealistic, we should somehow respect universes inner rules. If stim can repair you after unlucky 500kg throw, than it is.
I know it's not the best way unless check all possible weapons, but let's say we have to similar weapons, and use it as middle to compare anything else. I would say autocannons of both universes is equal. Then I can say, that SM power armor armor value (sorry) is higher then 4. In warhammer rail cannons of Tau could pierce medium armored vehicles and tanks. So I think it would be valid, if toughest part of their armor is 5 (tank-1) and thinest, weakpoints 4, and visors 3 or even less. It corelates with people in comments who compare SM is like tanks - okay, nice, now eat my expandable anti-tank dude.
About forest and minimap/radar - SMs have photolenses (infrared, ultraviolet spectres and night vision) and handheld auspexes, that can detect targets from 50m to 1500m. Why do you think minimap of helldiver would be so OP, if even in-game you unless scout uniform, your scanner show you only targets around you in 50-100 meters? Isn't auspex equal to radar of helldivers? Could armors of helldivers/space marines could be undetected? Who knows, but I don't think someone would had serious upper hand there. More like they both know where their enemies are and they need to think hard, to outplayed each other.
About close combat - in game most of engagement happen in range of 2 to 100 meters. It's CQC in fact mate. I understand it's game feature, but you also mentioned that "avoiding melee enemies is really big part of the game". On this distance even bolter could be heavy to dodge, and reaction of marines could play important role, as they could hit helldivers. Because on closer distance your mastery is more important, and therefore astartes would have upper hand in firearm combat. Unless helldivers manage to take them down with heavy weapons, like railguns/recoiless rifles/expandables that fire instantly. Because charging weapons like quasars, or slow rotation weapons as anti-tank encapment is too slow to keep pace with marines speed.
About hellpods - it's great weapon against big clumsy enemies, but I doubt that you can managed to kill space marine with hellpod. When I played with my buddies and they tried to hit me with hellpod, I most of time easily dodge that, because you can look in the sky and see hellpod that falling onto you. On certain distance steering system will not allow you to hit target that got too far away. But if hellpod fall on you nothing will save you.
About mentioned special equipment: space marines as well have interesting things as shields, jet packs, anti-tank options like plasma cannons or las cannons etc. Mentioned shields could be easily overloaded with a lot of projectiles, that mentioned laser cannon can do.
In case of stratagems, SMs have chance ONLY if they know this stratagems, and have idea how to escape from them, if it possible even. Orbital railcannon is death sentance, that is impossible to beat IMO. Only if you fast enough you can outmaneur it... but impact still will be huge. The option I see is hide below something that will block impact or kill those who throw stratagem. The same could be with 110mm rockets, but you at least can hide easier, to not let rockets kill you.
Others is possible to dodge, even laser you theoretically can outrun. Orbital barrages, 500kg and turrels is possible to dodge. You can see and hear projectiles/hellpods/eagle that about to start shooting, so astartes, using their senses, could have chance to outrun from places where hell will start.
So in the end I believe it's not just easy stomp (unless orbital railcannon spam...) but hard battle where you need to outhink your enemy, where both opponent can wipe each other.