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I feel like we should give the show's adherence to Frank Herbert's writings a lot of leeway. This takes place 10,000 years before Paul. Only 100+ years since the end of the Jihad. That's room for a lot of history. Has the Orange Catholic Bible even been written yet?
It has to be a tleilaxu master controlling the machine. The BT v BG storyline is key in Heretics and I think it would actually make this show good if they focused on this all male dominated society combating an all female society for control of “the shadows” in the imperium
I don’t actually think Desmond was ever attacked by a sandworm and survived - that’s just a memory/vision that was implanted in his head along with the eye. And it makes complete sense narratively that people around the imperium would be using thinking machines with the war being relatively recent in the timeline
Also the “fear is the mind killer” explanation is great imo. Adds a double meaning as it’s actually killing them here. Plus it’s specific to the benefit gesserit and not humanity at large. I think it ties together nicely with Tula being the mother of this threat they’re facing, and you can argue that fear drove a lot of her decisions in the story
I don't like that they left unanswered questions and didn't resolve the story without knowing whether they would have a season 2. If they hadn't just been renewed, they would have moved on and left us hanging forever? It makes me question whether they even have the answers or plans for the rest of the story themselves.
Interesting Desmond claims to hate thinking machine tech yet he gave the Harkonnen nephew machine tech. At first I thought he was manipulated into thinking his powers were a gift from God, but if he's got other machine tech he's using he doesn't seem that innocent.
@@Hellish-qx4eq Isn't it thinking machine technology? It looked like nano tech that transformed itself. I don't think that's normal tech in the Imperium.
@@v4skunk739 true, but in the universe of Dune they treat almost ALL technology as "thinking machines". So computers are also banned. Thats why they use Mentats (human computers) instead of actual electrical computing systems.
How did Desmond go from being swallowed by a worm, to getting surgery for the nano bots? Why was everyone getting the same dream? What does the worm has to do with anything?
Desmond has an insane amount of plot armor. 1. Eaten by a worm? Doesn't kill him. 2. Blown up? Doesn't kill him. 3. Stabbed in the gut with a sword? Doesn't kill him. 4. Javico says activating the virus again might kill him? He activates it again a few times and it doesn't kill him. I dislike the character. Dude is laughably overpowered.
@ most of Desmond’s backstory is a mystery. And Javico was referring to the extent of how he used it. A couple of people isn’t a big deal, but a whole room of people? That’s gonna cause more strain and damage. For all we know, he is probably a ghola who gets little glimpses of his past life much like how Hayt would in messiah. Plot armor is what Arya Stark had in game of thrones season 8 when she is the only person not getting burned by dragon fire. Fire hot enough to melt stone
I don’t think so, at least not the Erasmus from the bj. That Erasmus died in the books, while a copy would wait in deep space for the next 15000+ years while Omnius rebuilt the machine empire. And unlike Omnius, Erasmus was basically one of a kind
For the faction that is hoping for a series about the Butlerian Jihad, i dont think producers can do it justice in light of the fact there have been so many Hollywood stories featuring machines against humanity.
They pulled it out of the dumpster with this last episode. They still gave us more contrived scenes though. HBO/MAX is a of trick with a little bit of treat.
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I personally don't mind the nano machine explanation. I much prefer that sci fi answer than Desmond using literal sorcery to light people on fire. A middle ground could be an X-files like power where he can cause spontaneous combustion in others somehow, but that isnt really removed from the sorcery explanation.
Thinking the hooded figure is a Tlielaxu Master. They hate the Bene Geseerit and tick all of the boxes as to genetic manipulation and biomechanics engineering. I thought overall the series was solid but bot great. Writing was too inconsistent. Acting was pretty good, especially Ragnar and Tula.
After tens of thousands of years of technological advancement and dependency across worlds, I find zero fault with the depiction of continued use of technology only a few decades after TBJ. The belief systems that arose during TBJ would make the elimination of thinking machines a continuously evolving pursuit of purification and work-arounds over the thousands of years up to Muad Dib.
So, I like this series, Prophecy, even with all its digressions from the original narratives. Somehow in spite of imagination deprived studio executives (haven't they always been), this show made a valiant and I think ultimately successful effort to be more than your average run of the mill sci-fi show, and the performances were all great. Personally, I'm glad they went for a second season. It may not survive beyond that but I''ll take it.
I don’t agree that we don’t need a literal origin of the litany against fear. We cannot have a philosophy out of nowhere. DH is literally the source of why the sisters have been dying because they cannot overcome their fear. Why can’t they learn from this experience to create the litany against fear and make that their philosophy which helps them fight the virus?
IMO it would make sense that this is part of their mantra and culture much like the hatred of thinking machines. Over the course of 10,000 years, the method to overcome the Ominus plague may have been blended with it becoming a tenet of humanity.
So based on Kasha’s vision before she died. Her’s is also coming to pass somewhat. Her fear was losing Nez, and she was swallowed by a sandworm in the vision. Now she Vayla and the atreadis sword master are on Arrakis. So there is this potential plot thread still kind of in the works for the future. I’m thinking season 2 will see the litany against fear be established, as well as the spice agony and the protectiva come into play for the Arrakis storyline. It’s a safe bet to stay in line with what is as well kind of explain the potential mistrust between fremen and BG (at least this is all my own speculation, I’d rather see connections to Frank’s work, but I’m just pointing out the most logical way they’ll probably lean) Though very much that is still up in the air with other characters is concerning.
I think you are missing the point though. I think for humanity to regress to his old ways is also a Herbert theme all over the OG saga. And I think that this path to the order we see there, this kinda make sense. And also we know, by the god emperor's own words to Siona, that the machines never went away really, just exile to the fringes of the empirium, to rise once more at the end. Kinda make sense, and some pretty clever writing at some points. I wish the special effects were better though. we need to see more scale. I like the idea that the empirium got bigger not because of House Corrino, but by the Bene Gesserit order using the Landsraad to his favor, while also having their own internal crisis between sisters. That's very Herbert-rian lol Hoping they don't ruin the hooded guy plotline
Hopefully the figure is a bene tleilaxu and theodosia is a double agent because surely whoever is behind DH does not just place their bet in one person, right? That would also make sense that since theodosia is a primitive form of a face dancer, she still has to obey her master, so we will have nice subplot for Theo as well.
clever writing? they can't write a conversation that doesn't contradict itself, or events they showcased minutes earlier. I don't see how any of this is "Herbert-ian" when the prequel novels are so bad most don't consider it cannot. And then the show makes it a mission to brake the lore in even that.
Now that the season is done and I've had a chance to see all episodes, I can certainly say that I most definitely like this show. Do I love it? No, but I think there is a lot of potential there. The season is clearly uneven and the show's troubled production is quite apparent when watching. However for someone like me who is not steeped in the "Dune" lore and universe (I'm not judging Frank Herbert's original novels versus those of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson...since I haven't ready any of them) and is at most a tourist, the show did manage to get and keep my attention. As I've said,a flawed series that has the possibility to improve and grow. "Dune Prophecy" reminds me in some ways of "Caprica" (2009) the prequel series to "Battlestar Galactica" (though I liked "Caprica" more) and I mean that as a compliment.
Because Brian claims to have found his father's notes for Dune 7 in a bank deposit safe. However... Brian's version of Dune 7 is directly inconsistent with the Frank authored events of Frank Dune 6. More specifically speaking, two villain characters of D6 were completely rewritten for D7 as entirely different types of people than what Frank explicitly wrote them as in D6. So, my overall point here is that Brian Herbert is always lying his ass off. Literally everything that comes out of his mouth is a disgrace to his father's legacy. He has actually sued people for making Dune costumes in video games. His father Frank gave away the Dune rights to make games for Sega Genesis and PC while he was alive. There is a massive talent gap and ego gap between Father and son. Father was a genius, humble writer with no ego. Son is a horrible writer with a planet sized ego. Anyway, all Brian did was watch Terminator movies 1 and 2 and slap those events onto the beginning and end of the Frank Herbert Dune timeline. And then inside the Frank Herbert timeline, Brian explained away every drop of mystique into some 7th grade literal explanation of the concept. And worse ... There is no point at all to any Brian Herbert Dune book. None of them have a theme. None of them ask a question to the reader. They are simply this.... And then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened... Nothing Brian writes means anything. All the original Dune themes (human evolution in the absence of relying on machines, humans in a symbiotic relationship with their environments and planets effect their belief systems, feudalism, corporations having too much control over the government while operating unchecked from the shadows, addiction (spice as fill in for drugs), dependency on natural resources for travel and industry (again, spice used for oil this time).... All of this lost on Brian. Brian just slapped the same last names on ancestor characters and added dumb Terminator events to the series. Frank's Butlerian Jihad was about humans suffering from decreased ability to create (think playing music, think writing poetry, coming up with improved forms of government) and wiping out artificial intelligence to get their human ability to evolve back. Frank's Butlerian Jihad and zero to do with fighting Terminators. There was a much greater point that Frank was making with the Butlerian Jihad. So ultimately, even if Brian answered your question... He's such a lying greedy piece of crap of a person that it wouldn't even matter what he told you. He has no respect for his father's work and in his own words didn't read Dune at all until his Dad was nearly dead from cancer. For the first 40.years of Brian's life he was in the insurance business. Then he became... Wait for it.... A "Dune author". His words not mine. As far as I'm concerned he isn't even an author.
@@D7fromGuild Wait he claimed bank deposits thing? The last interview Frank gave was that D7 was suppose to be about of political system he envisioned. I didnt know those things about Brian, I knew he wasnt really interested on Dune, it really seems weird that he was a late bloomer for writing, I mean it happens but it kind of feels like a grift to pump out gazillion different dune books, comics, selling rights to different games. Somehow his match with Kevin (SW writer) was not a good fit. If Herberts somewhat weird style is exotic fine dining, Brian and Kevin are just bad fast food burgers. Have you read any of Brians own books? I tried to read his Dune books but, they felt just waste of time for me.
@@SweetandFullofGraceI attempted to read Paul of Dune for the sole reason of seeing what might be included in the DV Dune 3 movie. I finished a few pages and then put the book in the recycling bin to honor Frank's memory. The bank notes story is very real. Google search Dune 7 notes and you can even see a copy of the notes on a floppy disk labelled in Frank's handwriting. But idiot Brian either didn't read them or threw them away because the Terminator b.s. and the two Terminators he chose (Daniel and Marty) are both clearly described and featured in D6 where both are facedancers that escaped their Bene Tleilax masters. As in, Daniel and Marty literally recap their own backstory while briefly interacting with Duncan Idaho near the end of D6. Idiot boy Brian changed their names to Ominous and Erasmus. They are both Ultra powered million year old Terminators who fought in a war against humanity on modern day earth.... Which literally happens in both major Terminator movies made by James Cameron. Anyway, yeah everything Brian says or writes is horse crap. He never read his own father's books as a child or young adult. He was an insurance salesman for almost 25 years before magically becoming an author after his Dad died. He could have just allowed great writers to finish or deepen the Dune timeline... But no. Instead he chose to be an author and write at a 7th grade level and absolutely crap on everything his father did by reducing an amazing fictional universe to this .. Machines are bad. Humans are good.
This show was a bit all over the place. It was entertaining in general, but the more you appreciate Frank Herbert's Dune and Denis' movies the less I'd recommend this show. What makes great art so great is that it's open to interpretation. Having discussions about the intricacies and subtleties of art and it's meanings, or what it means specifically to the individual engaging with it, is what makes good art so .. good. To over-explain some of the finest points of the Dune books and Denis' movies... that's just painful to see. In a complete vacuum I'd give this show a 7.5 or 8/10. Taking into consideration the original books and Denis' movies, i'd drop that to a 5.5 or 6/10.
Okay, so I didn't read the books. But, what I was picking up from the content providers, was that the Bene Geserate (sp) were supposed to be superior fighters. But, so far, in the movies and the TV series, they are not. Also, they are supposed to be super sensitive. So, how could someone sneak up on you and jab you with a Ben Jabbar (sp). BG should know when a person enters the room regardless of what they are doing. (even grieving )
If a company decides to start a project like this, they need to throw money at an established script writer: Milius ( probably too old now). , Eggars, j Michael Strazinski ( how ever you spell his name). You need a big name like those guys.
This was the original plan. Then a woke mob demanded more female writers. True story. Delayed production and derailed the show in the name of woke nonsense. I mean this is a show about women starring women. It wasn't enough for the woke mob though. The writers had to be women too.
There was no intent for that mentioned before the prequel novels by the new authors. The Original intent was that people were becoming ignorant and incompetent at anything that required education such as higher mathematics & engineering because computers were doing that for them. When it became obvious that they were unable to keep growing as a species, some finally realized that they needed to re-learn how to think for themselves. These people concluded that it was necessary to rid humanity of the crutches of computers, but some disagreed. The Butlerian Jihad was supporters of the idea vs those who wished to keep computers, not idiot brains stuck into machines like some comic book for kids. Those whose memories are better than mine can correct any of this if it is incorrect.
The Terminator ripoff version of the Butlerian Jihad was pure Brian Herbert. The original idea for the Butlerian Jihad was more like humans smashing their smart phones and learning how to play musical instruments again. Brian Herbert quite literally just copied the entire premise of James Cameron's Terminator movies and slapped it onto Dune.
@@haplozetetic9519you get it. The jihad was about eliminating the god of machine logic, which had made humans lazy, decadent and not terribly capable. The enslavement of humanity was one of dependence.
@@haplozetetic9519 accurate if you remove the unimportant Titans reference, the Jihad was about humanity fighting back against people who used thinking machines to enslave it. “Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” This is a direct quote from "Dune" by Frank Herbert.
Always knew it was nano tech. But like by this period it’s like they don’t have any imagination of how he could kill with just a thought lol. AND rubbing his head for that matter , indicating some type of control. Hilarious that the emperor didn’t screen his own soldier/ bashar for weapons, or that he was a carrier of a banned weapon. 😂
Prophecy is just bad Dune fanfic. So few people understand Frank Herbert’s themes that it’s going to take someone of practically the same talent as his to do the works any real justice.
At 10:20 I completely understand your point, but I think they have made a few small mentions of how the religious people like dorotea and the butlerians are the ones right now who have the hate for thinking machines. You are right though, it would make a lot more sense if most of the imperium hated them (besides the ixians and tleilaxu maybe).
I wondered that too. Maybe that will get explained why Dez' two greatest fears (getting swallowed by the worm and being on the operating table getting eye surgery) are part of what everyone sees (except Valya and Kasha do have their own different nightmare scenes - Valya on the ice in rough weather and Kasha being underneath Inez somewhere where sand is falling on her.
Because the script says so. Gotta keep churning out them mystery boxes. Now they have some time to figure out six or seven other boring subplots to play with before getting to the real story in like season 4 or 5.
Well one of them said god. I’m guessing they mistook the robots eyes for regular eyes since they only saw a little bit of Desmond’s memories whereas Valya could see all of it. It’s probably playing on the “bene gesserit controlling everything behind the scenes” like they’re gonna calm the girls down by making them believe it was a prophecy. Edit: it could also be Dorotea who makes them believe it’s a prophecy since she “back” and was more religious than valya
@@user-yw9ys3dz7x honestly idk they’re probably saving it for next season since they made it seem like it was more important? If that makes sense. Like I think because Valya has more years practicing the sisterhood techniques, isn’t really religious, and is entirely ambitious to follow Raquella’s plan that I think she was able to see passed the blue eyes sequence and was able to see what was really behind it. Where as the sister acolytes see it more in a religious lens. Idk 😭😭😭 I was more into the philosophical side of it prior to this episode and thought it he was the Proto- kwistaz haderach
Someone educate me please. Francesca's garb was black. I assumed that meant she was a reverend mother. Yet she succumbed easily to poison when , by definition, a reverend mother...
It was cyanide, cyanide binds to the hemoglobin molecule, your cells starve for oxygen at the cellular level. What a wimp the emperor was. I am not fond of the righteous path the Lila storyline is developing into.
I mean she could also not be dead. They could write her back in saying she underwent the agony (or synthesized the poison if she was already a RM). She appeared dead as that is what they are trained to do, shut down their metabolism to the point of appearing dead so they can have time to mute the poison
So the empressx has engaged in a coup ? With the emporer dead the daughter is now the empress, and the bg have her , I think this happened to fast the bg taking over in 30 years is ridiculously fast , they were only nearly readiy to take over and place a bg on the throne 10 thousand years from this point,
Something to do with the imperial desert botanical base's ? ( man , controlling the machine) no doubt the freman are going to receive a wild reverend mother, or thewill find and manipulate the freman , and give the freman combat skills, like ginaz sword master level ability, valya will plant the lisan al giab , ( based on her atreides / harkonan ) idea , Season two thoughs
Why are there Bene Geserit sisters espousing belief in their mythological god which they sow among humanity as a control method, and why would the 10k yesr distant god emperor figure into this story when it hadn't figured into jessica and paul's era until paul had undergone the first successful transmuation by a male? None of that makes any sense unless brian and kevin's writings feature that out of sequence material.
They might've been trying to see what worked, but they gotta stop with the brian books. Valya's backstory and family stuff was weak. And all the superficial attempts at politicking. But get them slowly discovering everything. Even over explaining the litany of fear would be okay if they all forgot in the next 10K years so that it still is a cultural and thematic thing. Maybe even inspiration for doing more with genetics/biology to beat and no longer have support for the remnants of the machines. Just never get into Vorian, Erasmus or anything like that! And stick with Frank's themes of human exceptionality and predisposition toward tyranny. And maybe ensure the details are lost in time even if the audience gets overexplanations. Loved hearing your insights and keeping this show fun despite its superficial nature versus these videos.
I do want to see more Dune on tv however i am not all that interested in seeing this get a second series and would rather someone else attempt a new dune series with a different focus.
I really hated the reveal about the blue eyes. Hoped there would’ve been a link to Leto II but the show kept defaulting to the less imaginative fanfic that BH/JHA have written about man vs. machine without any of the subtlety that we found in Herbert’s work. They should’ve lead with an episode dedicated to the Butlerian Jihad so people would have some context about why this society despises machines. A missed opportunity to really tie the show to Herbert’s original universe. What we were left with was confusing. The show mentioned Mentat sisters briefly when they figured so importantly in Dune yet seeing all the tech being used, including Desmond giving Harrow that recording device, the fear of machines feels out of context. The last complaint is the waste of Sister Theodosia. They set us up with such a breathtaking reveal about who she is and then let us down in the finale. Such clumsy writing. The attempt to keep dumbing down Herbert’s brilliant concepts is obvious. The show-runners need to determine whose story they’re telling. Frank Herbert’s or BK/KJA? There seems to be a conflict there which made the writing uneven though out the season. The show’s main success was an accurate depiction of some of the spectacular imagery from Denis Villeneuve’s vision for the Dune movies.
@@D7fromGuild Imagine if Dorothea's daughter is also an Abomination and possessed by her Ego Memory. We could have TWO Dorotheas at the same time. One in Lila and one in her mother, daughter of Dorothea. Such a thing, although possible was NEVER mentioned in Dune lore.
The one bright spot of this show was the actress who played the abomination I thought she was excellent. Writing, dialogue, fight scenes, special effects, sound design, acting, pretty much really really bad. Desmond was ok. Mark Strong as a bumbling indecisive love blind "emperor" is just insulting. What a waste. Loved your videos Nerd Cookies 🤙
Everything I hear from Brian H. readers tells me reading those books will only corrupt Dune for me. I was sad when I got to the last Frank Herbert book too, but the answer is go back and read God Emperor, and avoid the prequelitis.
I really enjoyed and loved season 1 of this show. I feel like the more hardcore ideological Dune fans who have their perceptions set in stone due to the books, don't appreciate this show. The criticisms seem so deep in the weeds and self indulgent. "This is how I perceived the books and you can't deviate from that at all." The show was very well written, thoughtful, great World building, political drama, acting, visual production etc. They did a great job making this feel like it fits within the world of Denis Villeneuve's cinematic experience.
Dune isn't Denis Vellenueve. Denis Vellenueve is woke Dune. If even you like the DV movies, I would recommend the Frank Books. They are light years beyond DV's woke stark minimalism and very thought provoking. I would also recommend watching the SciFi series Children of Dune. It is excellent and it is a telling of Frank Books 2 and 3.
@@D7fromGuild Could you explain what woke means to you? “Woke” can mean so many different things that it’s basically meaningless at this point. Thanks.
@@venomousspecifics45 DV changed Chani and Irulan to make them more girl bossy. Neither character can make a mistake now. Neither character can have a fault. Irulan is practically running the empire because her Joe Biden father can barely climb stairs so he just listens to her. Chani instead of being madly devoted to Paul and having three of his kids is now girl power to the extreme and will lead a revolution against bad male character Paul. That is pure wokeness and that is what DV changed from two core characters of FH Dune. In the books, Irulan is a gorgeous but average BG who dropped out of training midway through. She is a very talented author which is completely the same (I guess) in book and DV movie. However, at no point does Irulan suggest government related ideas to her father Shaddam. Also, (spoilers) Irulan is supposed to poison Chani and prevent a childbirth. Not only will Chani not be pregnant in the next film (she was already supposed to have a kid by now in the real timeline) but no way in hell DV will allow girl boss 1 to poison Girl Boss 2. And I would close by saying that Jessica's character went into Evil Girl boss territory. She supposed to a be loving mother. She is not nearly as Sisterhood above all as DV makes her out to be. But being a loving mother and raising Paul from a place of love isn't girl bossy enough for wokester DV so we got 3 girl bosses and one of them is an evil girl boss. None of that nonsense happened in the books. They were basically normal characters and the only really other worldly exception was Paul (at least until his sister shows up).
@@venomousspecifics45He means, it had Black people in it. After reading his response, it is also clear that he is a virgin incel who lives in his mother's basement.
@@D7fromGuild Don't forget the obvious example - gender swapping Liet Kynes. It breaks the whole "The Imperium is patriarchal and so the BG must operate in extreme secrecy" thing Frank set up. Now there's a woman who achieves a very high position seemingly on her own, answering only to the Emperor as the Judge of the Change and the planetologist in charge of the most important planet in the Imperium. Why didn't the Sisterhood try to bring her into the fold? We know from the books that's totally in their playbook, but we're not supposed to think about it. The change was purely for political reasons. Dune is a very delicate collection of parts, like a jenga pile. Nudging one out of place can really bring the whole thing down.
This episode was OK, but the series as a whole was really disappointing. Desmond Hart being of Atrades and Harkonnen is simply lazy writing. Now the Lisan Al Gaib prophecy is just a description of Desmond. The Emperor had no other character trait but being weak. The revolutionary cell was not fully thought out and seemed without purpose. Neither built enough tension for me to give a damn. The humans behind Desmond's operation were either Ixian or Tleilaxu or both. It could lead to be why both groups are held in such suspicion in Paul's era. I haven't read all the the Brian Herbert books but so much of the narratives in the show (ie an Empress instead of an Emperor, litany against fear) in this first season don't feel like the could lead to the Frank Herbert's world. I hope it gets better in the next season.
The hooded figure is Empress Natalya. She harbours intense hatred toward the Sisterhood and would go to such lengths to destroy them. That's why she protected Desmond in the beginning and persuaded the Emperor not to kill him, but use him, to his detriment at rhe end. However, she is also a pawn in a greater game with Tleilaxu and Ixians being involved also. They are also pawns to the Great Enemy, the Hivemind Omnius probably. Sister Theodosia also has ulterior motives and is probably an agent of the Tleilaxu, pretending to serve the Sisterhood, but is in fact faithfuly serving the Tleilaxu Masters
I agree about Theo. In the entire series the reader can never trust a Tleilaxu. They always have self-serving motives for their actions (exceptions to this made for two face dancers at the end of Chapterhouse).
My theory is that the misterious hooded figure is another Bene Gesserit. Just because the show is about them and also because tv/movie writers have a habit of doing this sort of plot
But hey, to much information of Desmond would be very Brian Herbert according to this content creator. I guess they left some mystery after all. It's amazing what happens when you wait for the entire story to be told instead of over analyzing with the desire for to much information, hmmm....
I wish Desmond was portrayed by another actor besides Travis Fimmel; he is just not very skilled. The whole wobbly-twitchy head with the side eye and slurred speech (accent?) just brings down an otherwise solid production.
When the films don’t follow the books fanboys cry. Get over it. It’s called creative license. They judge it solely on how close it followed the books, Boring. The intent is not to blindly follow the original work, but to ‘base’ it on the books. The lessons are the same, humanity, jehad, conflict, thinking machines. But, like butt holes, everyone has one, regurgitating butt hole juice or whatever
If you want to tell a fresh story, then tell it! However, if you want to ride the coat tails of what came before and feed off an already established audience, you'll need to 'give the people what they want'.
I don't think the butlerian jihad stuff is confusing at all. It's like 100+ years after those wars. Look at history - you said it yourself in this video - Herbert looked at how we progressed and regressed over time. It's clear in this story - and I haven't read the Brian Herbert books - than not everyone is part of the jihad - hence the technology that is still around. What is confusing about that? I just don't get some of these criticisms... This story uses the elements of Brian's books, but I think it's clear that it's not a total adaptation. So it's not supposed to be a 1:1 recreation of those stories.
You dont understand, it was a Holy War meaning they killed everybody that had them and machines would be destroyed. What Herbert meant by progression and regression was politics and philosophy. You do understand how many people Pauls jihad killed? You people think of this like modern brain with no imagination, you think of this like "well they banned tiktok, but I can still use instagram", thats not how it worked in Dune. War lasted 100 years, and those 100y they destroyed everything they could. Writers are idiots that dont get it, it seems that not many so called Dune fans get it either.
The thing your forgetting we that this is the beginning of the imperium and it’s not like you are have no thinking machines like we do by Paul’s time Rather it’s still a process of purging so people are bound to still have them and not be as narcissistic towards machines as they are later on
Wow, this show was terrible from beginning to end! HBO does some great shows but they sure missed the mark here. The writing, the acting, the story, bad, bad, bad!!
I have a theory, that the person at the end is Duncan Idaho working with Erasmus. From the last book of Frank Herbert we know, that null-ship with Duncan, last Bene Gesserit and Tleilaxu master escaped trap settled by Daniel and Marty, trap involving tachyon web. Tachyon is the key part. Tachyon is a theoretical particle traveling back in time, to escape tachyon web you have to perform time jump.We don't know the direction, only that the ship ended in a void, univers without any star, and was rescued by Oracle of Time, Norma Cenva. Brian Herbert's book series ended with Duncan Idaho merging into one entity with Erasmus. In one place and time we have sandworm, with a sleeping mind of god empire, Tleilaxu master with knowladge of gholas, Bene Geserit, which perfected act of restoring gholas memories. Duncan Idach and Erasmus, with knowladge of time travel and holding full power of thinking machines. A logical move would be to send them into past. One objective would be to place sandworms on Arrakis, converting the planet in Dune. Second, make sure that humanity will follow path into the right future. Resurecting Desmond Hart, using trace of blood from a scrap of his old uniform would be a one step. (Why did I say something about a piece of cloth? Because this scrap is Desmond's most precious belonging, and may be the only connection into his old live)
This show is a joke, still cant believe they renewed it since its not even that popular. Its small brain mysterybox, barely even fanfic, its CW level writing and not smart SCIFI, people still fall for memberberry stuff. Well just wanted to see how it ended and now I am going to move on and let this horrible cringe vanish from my memory, maybe I will read some Franks writing to cleanse myself, hell even Brians writing is better than this soap garbage.
The season has a ton of muddled plots. I would’ve preferred Desmond Hart had immediately killed the little boy for his thinking machine toy and the emperor using it as a pretext for the Sardukar gaining power thru enforcement of that law, with the Bene Gesserit put in a favorable light by their use of their “maternal” influence to nurture righteous actions. This would’ve been truer to Frank’s Dune themes than Brian/Kevins Terminator themes and a more straightforward set of plots. Sadly I lost all hope the moment I saw Ynez’s swordplay…
Desmond needs an actual sister to build some heart into his character. By being weaponized and left for dead by both the Sisterhood, and his Mom; and the forces of cybernetic death attacking the Sisterhood, he is bound to develop self destructive and misogynistic tendencies. The only resolution to this is to have an actual connection to a woman he can respect and favor in his own life, and, ultimately, to love as an equal. This may not become part of the storyline, but I think it is something this character will need in order not to become a destructive monster! This is more a personal note and a reflection on a character whose portrayal of obscure and abandoned suffering is for me the only real high point in the series. I don’t appreciate matronly muderesses as a counter-point story line, so I am left as a viewer truly only rooting for Desmond to become humane and more human. He needs to find a love beyond the love of fleshly romances, or embittered lost female mother-objects, in order to succeed at being more than just an accumulator of revenge motives and casual, addicted hatreds. So, a kind of sister not sunk into the Sisterhood would be needed to give his story arc the kind of development and transformation that can lead to a satisfying resultion. We will need to see in him growth, change, and reconsideration of personal and impersonal motives. To this end, a kind of respectful admiration of a female who fills the lost mother object role and at the same time a teammate and rival, such a a true ‘sister’ might provide, could lead to a fulfilling plot that allows the show to reach a new height not forseen by this first season. I like the Desmond Hart character, but he will need a kind of redemption not centered around power or its use and acquisition. Love, a sisterly and sustained supporting kind; instead of a romantic and sexual kind, can make this show achieve a level higher than its current plateau. That said, I still would much prefer to watch Raised By Wolves on Blu Ray more than sit through another season of this far inferior show. I wish I could be watching a season 3 and waiting for a season 4 of that great epic! I might just cancel Max as there is nothing very satisfying about this drama, or any if it’s other offerings. Just a personal gripe, apologies! I want to see what Father gets up to, and how Mother escapes her forced subjection to hyper-sleep! What does Grandmother have planned for our hapless band of tribal survivors in this desperate land of Kepler 22b? Inquiring minds want to know! This show is tired and regrettable in my own opinion. To me, a true ‘sister act’ is the only thing that can save it as an entertaining and growth oriented narrative. Thanks for your great vids!
Hate being negative about anything related to my beloved dune but this show sucked. Next film by Denis then children to chapter house as an HBO series then just stop.
@@LolitaDavidovich934me too. DV sucked all the fresh air out of the franchise for me. His movies all feel post apocalyptic where humans can no longer feel joy. The dialogue is like Russian prisons in terms of warm interactions with each other.
Further, DV completely rewrote the Chani, Irulan and Jessica characters. DV claims to be this huge Dune fan but he won't release deleted scenes and did his own 180 degree spin on three main characters.
People in this thread are so funny. She has posted multiple videos about the same messages that the show has its issues and is different than the FH’s main books. Not only that, there other production, acting and writing issues in this show. We have known that since earlier episodes. Yet you guys keep making an effort to complain. You don’t need to watch it. There is a lot of good aspects in this show and some align with FH’s books (which NerdCookie pointed out). Why not focus on the good parts and be hopeful for the next season?
@@solarydays okay? it's a tv show, you can uphold standards by just simply not watching it... they will cancel the show if ratings or viewership declines. They already renewed a 2nd season. Those have already made up their minds that this show is terrible will not continue to watch it. So what good is constantly complaining gonna do? You can either simply stop supporting or focus on the good and hope for the best.
@@maxtran7441 you are complaining about people complaining tho? it's not like you practice what you preach. not like you shouldn't be able to, but you are bothered that others are allowed to do the very same thing you are doing... by your own logic you shouldn't be here reading comments you don't like
Wow this show is bad. There are a few ideas that are cool to see realized but they're not worth the price of producing this series. Potentially ruining the Bene Geserit vibe of the films.
While I did like the show overall, it lacks the depth of frank Herberts work. It tries to disguise this shortcoming by skimming through too many characters and storylines. If we get season 2, I hope for better writing and more focused storylines.
I'm Greatly Disappointed.. This Series has Mutated the intent of the DUNE history and World. I agree with your more negative thoughts and ideas about the direction and narrative that they've taken..(sigh) .. I'm not interested in this story line. [Apologies to Frank Hubert.]
Definitely not written as well as it should’ve been, like the shape changer, changing into the princes for no reason whatsoever? I’m assuming there are women writers and really they should never be women writers have women ever written anything worth a shit ever in television or movies?
Cringe melodramatic acting. Characters I don’t care about. Plot? I dunno. I read a few Brian Herbert books after Frank died and felt exactly the same. I figured I’d give it a shot but not surprised. But the visuals are good lol
The time line is a little hard to swallow. All these things are around 10000 years before dune? Then no tech advances for an that time. Did enjoy the series though. Would prefer the story of how these things develop.
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I feel like we should give the show's adherence to Frank Herbert's writings a lot of leeway. This takes place 10,000 years before Paul. Only 100+ years since the end of the Jihad. That's room for a lot of history. Has the Orange Catholic Bible even been written yet?
The only theory I can confidently put forward is that the Tleilaxu are neck deep in this whole business.
It has to be a tleilaxu master controlling the machine. The BT v BG storyline is key in Heretics and I think it would actually make this show good if they focused on this all male dominated society combating an all female society for control of “the shadows” in the imperium
Could be Ixian
I was thinking something similar
Always include an opened ended mystery thing that can be interpreted into whatever way the show needs when it's committee written next season.
I prefer to think “shat out by committee”
I don’t actually think Desmond was ever attacked by a sandworm and survived - that’s just a memory/vision that was implanted in his head along with the eye. And it makes complete sense narratively that people around the imperium would be using thinking machines with the war being relatively recent in the timeline
Also the “fear is the mind killer” explanation is great imo. Adds a double meaning as it’s actually killing them here. Plus it’s specific to the benefit gesserit and not humanity at large. I think it ties together nicely with Tula being the mother of this threat they’re facing, and you can argue that fear drove a lot of her decisions in the story
I don't like that they left unanswered questions and didn't resolve the story without knowing whether they would have a season 2. If they hadn't just been renewed, they would have moved on and left us hanging forever? It makes me question whether they even have the answers or plans for the rest of the story themselves.
Interesting Desmond claims to hate thinking machine tech yet he gave the Harkonnen nephew machine tech. At first I thought he was manipulated into thinking his powers were a gift from God, but if he's got other machine tech he's using he doesn't seem that innocent.
It's not a thinking machine. It's a recording device.
@@Hellish-qx4eq Isn't it thinking machine technology? It looked like nano tech that transformed itself. I don't think that's normal tech in the Imperium.
The stance against thinking machines is more of a way of manipulating the emperor to achieve Desmond’s goals
Huge difference between a thinking machine and a machine like a computer.
@@v4skunk739 true, but in the universe of Dune they treat almost ALL technology as "thinking machines". So computers are also banned. Thats why they use Mentats (human computers) instead of actual electrical computing systems.
Just because the hooded figure was watching doesn't mean it was controlling the operating robot.
I think it's Lila's mother (another commenter mentioned this idea first).
Yes it does in a shitty show like this..
@@GarranTanathe hell are you talking about
@@tgiacin435 It's easy to know what you can expect / predict in a low quality story.
@@GarranTana so you didn’t watch it then
Ugg no. He didn’t get killed by sandstorm it was a false memory. Why are so many people not getting that?
How did Desmond go from being swallowed by a worm, to getting surgery for the nano bots?
Why was everyone getting the same dream? What does the worm has to do with anything?
All will be revealed. The thing must take its course.
Desmond has an insane amount of plot armor. 1. Eaten by a worm? Doesn't kill him. 2. Blown up? Doesn't kill him. 3. Stabbed in the gut with a sword? Doesn't kill him. 4. Javico says activating the virus again might kill him? He activates it again a few times and it doesn't kill him.
I dislike the character. Dude is laughably overpowered.
He's a ghola or being swollowed by a worm is an implanted memory.
@ most of Desmond’s backstory is a mystery. And Javico was referring to the extent of how he used it. A couple of people isn’t a big deal, but a whole room of people? That’s gonna cause more strain and damage. For all we know, he is probably a ghola who gets little glimpses of his past life much like how Hayt would in messiah. Plot armor is what Arya Stark had in game of thrones season 8 when she is the only person not getting burned by dragon fire. Fire hot enough to melt stone
@@ewarrior9776 then that would mean the footage Javico watched was faked. I’m kinda leaning towards him being a ghola. But only time will tell
I think it's Erasmus.
I don’t think so, at least not the Erasmus from the bj. That Erasmus died in the books, while a copy would wait in deep space for the next 15000+ years while Omnius rebuilt the machine empire. And unlike Omnius, Erasmus was basically one of a kind
Thanks and Merry Christmas, Elaine.
For the faction that is hoping for a series about the Butlerian Jihad, i dont think producers can do it justice in light of the fact there have been so many Hollywood stories featuring machines against humanity.
They pulled it out of the dumpster with this last episode. They still gave us more contrived scenes though. HBO/MAX is a of trick with a little bit of treat.
Great show. Can't wait for season 2
Last Christmas, I came across Your Life, Your Game by Keezano, and it completely changed my life. It showed me how connecting with God and focusing on family can bring true spiritual growth, stronger relationships, and success in every part of life. If you’re looking for something meaningful to read this holiday season, I can’t recommend it enough. Merry Christmas!
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I personally don't mind the nano machine explanation. I much prefer that sci fi answer than Desmond using literal sorcery to light people on fire. A middle ground could be an X-files like power where he can cause spontaneous combustion in others somehow, but that isnt really removed from the sorcery explanation.
Always love your videos, Ms. Cookies! Keep it up! ......Are you feeling well? You sound like you might have a cold.
Thinking the hooded figure is a Tlielaxu Master. They hate the Bene Geseerit and tick all of the boxes as to genetic manipulation and biomechanics engineering. I thought overall the series was solid but bot great. Writing was too inconsistent. Acting was pretty good, especially Ragnar and Tula.
After tens of thousands of years of technological advancement and dependency across worlds, I find zero fault with the depiction of continued use of technology only a few decades after TBJ. The belief systems that arose during TBJ would make the elimination of thinking machines a continuously evolving pursuit of purification and work-arounds over the thousands of years up to Muad Dib.
I can’t wait for Fervant Space nuns discussing oaths for another 8 hours next year
So, I like this series, Prophecy, even with all its digressions from the original narratives. Somehow in spite of imagination deprived studio executives (haven't they always been), this show made a valiant and I think ultimately successful effort to be more than your average run of the mill sci-fi show, and the performances were all great. Personally, I'm glad they went for a second season. It may not survive beyond that but I''ll take it.
I don’t agree that we don’t need a literal origin of the litany against fear. We cannot have a philosophy out of nowhere. DH is literally the source of why the sisters have been dying because they cannot overcome their fear. Why can’t they learn from this experience to create the litany against fear and make that their philosophy which helps them fight the virus?
IMO it would make sense that this is part of their mantra and culture much like the hatred of thinking machines. Over the course of 10,000 years, the method to overcome the Ominus plague may have been blended with it becoming a tenet of humanity.
So based on Kasha’s vision before she died. Her’s is also coming to pass somewhat. Her fear was losing Nez, and she was swallowed by a sandworm in the vision. Now she Vayla and the atreadis sword master are on Arrakis.
So there is this potential plot thread still kind of in the works for the future.
I’m thinking season 2 will see the litany against fear be established, as well as the spice agony and the protectiva come into play for the Arrakis storyline. It’s a safe bet to stay in line with what is as well kind of explain the potential mistrust between fremen and BG (at least this is all my own speculation, I’d rather see connections to Frank’s work, but I’m just pointing out the most logical way they’ll probably lean)
Though very much that is still up in the air with other characters is concerning.
I think you are missing the point though. I think for humanity to regress to his old ways is also a Herbert theme all over the OG saga. And I think that this path to the order we see there, this kinda make sense. And also we know, by the god emperor's own words to Siona, that the machines never went away really, just exile to the fringes of the empirium, to rise once more at the end. Kinda make sense, and some pretty clever writing at some points. I wish the special effects were better though. we need to see more scale. I like the idea that the empirium got bigger not because of House Corrino, but by the Bene Gesserit order using the Landsraad to his favor, while also having their own internal crisis between sisters. That's very Herbert-rian lol Hoping they don't ruin the hooded guy plotline
Hopefully the figure is a bene tleilaxu and theodosia is a double agent because surely whoever is behind DH does not just place their bet in one person, right?
That would also make sense that since theodosia is a primitive form of a face dancer, she still has to obey her master, so we will have nice subplot for Theo as well.
clever writing? they can't write a conversation that doesn't contradict itself, or events they showcased minutes earlier. I don't see how any of this is "Herbert-ian" when the prequel novels are so bad most don't consider it cannot. And then the show makes it a mission to brake the lore in even that.
Now that the season is done and I've had a chance to see all episodes, I can certainly say that I most definitely like this show. Do I love it? No, but I think there is a lot of potential there. The season is clearly uneven and the show's troubled production is quite apparent when watching. However for someone like me who is not steeped in the "Dune" lore and universe (I'm not judging Frank Herbert's original novels versus those of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson...since I haven't ready any of them) and is at most a tourist, the show did manage to get and keep my attention. As I've said,a flawed series that has the possibility to improve and grow. "Dune Prophecy" reminds me in some ways of "Caprica" (2009) the prequel series to "Battlestar Galactica" (though I liked "Caprica" more) and I mean that as a compliment.
Is there any interview or publication where Brian says why he went his way in the stories?
Because Brian claims to have found his father's notes for Dune 7 in a bank deposit safe.
However...
Brian's version of Dune 7 is directly inconsistent with the Frank authored events of Frank Dune 6. More specifically speaking, two villain characters of D6 were completely rewritten for D7 as entirely different types of people than what Frank explicitly wrote them as in D6.
So, my overall point here is that Brian Herbert is always lying his ass off. Literally everything that comes out of his mouth is a disgrace to his father's legacy. He has actually sued people for making Dune costumes in video games. His father Frank gave away the Dune rights to make games for Sega Genesis and PC while he was alive. There is a massive talent gap and ego gap between Father and son. Father was a genius, humble writer with no ego. Son is a horrible writer with a planet sized ego.
Anyway, all Brian did was watch Terminator movies 1 and 2 and slap those events onto the beginning and end of the Frank Herbert Dune timeline. And then inside the Frank Herbert timeline, Brian explained away every drop of mystique into some 7th grade literal explanation of the concept. And worse ...
There is no point at all to any Brian Herbert Dune book. None of them have a theme. None of them ask a question to the reader. They are simply this....
And then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened...
Nothing Brian writes means anything. All the original Dune themes (human evolution in the absence of relying on machines, humans in a symbiotic relationship with their environments and planets effect their belief systems, feudalism, corporations having too much control over the government while operating unchecked from the shadows, addiction (spice as fill in for drugs), dependency on natural resources for travel and industry (again, spice used for oil this time)....
All of this lost on Brian.
Brian just slapped the same last names on ancestor characters and added dumb Terminator events to the series.
Frank's Butlerian Jihad was about humans suffering from decreased ability to create (think playing music, think writing poetry, coming up with improved forms of government) and wiping out artificial intelligence to get their human ability to evolve back. Frank's Butlerian Jihad and zero to do with fighting Terminators. There was a much greater point that Frank was making with the Butlerian Jihad.
So ultimately, even if Brian answered your question... He's such a lying greedy piece of crap of a person that it wouldn't even matter what he told you. He has no respect for his father's work and in his own words didn't read Dune at all until his Dad was nearly dead from cancer. For the first 40.years of Brian's life he was in the insurance business. Then he became... Wait for it....
A "Dune author". His words not mine. As far as I'm concerned he isn't even an author.
@@D7fromGuild Wait he claimed bank deposits thing? The last interview Frank gave was that D7 was suppose to be about of political system he envisioned.
I didnt know those things about Brian, I knew he wasnt really interested on Dune, it really seems weird that he was a late bloomer for writing, I mean it happens but
it kind of feels like a grift to pump out gazillion different dune books, comics, selling rights to different games. Somehow his match with Kevin (SW writer) was not
a good fit. If Herberts somewhat weird style is exotic fine dining, Brian and Kevin are just bad fast food burgers. Have you read any of Brians own books?
I tried to read his Dune books but, they felt just waste of time for me.
@@SweetandFullofGraceI attempted to read Paul of Dune for the sole reason of seeing what might be included in the DV Dune 3 movie. I finished a few pages and then put the book in the recycling bin to honor Frank's memory.
The bank notes story is very real. Google search Dune 7 notes and you can even see a copy of the notes on a floppy disk labelled in Frank's handwriting. But idiot Brian either didn't read them or threw them away because the Terminator b.s. and the two Terminators he chose (Daniel and Marty) are both clearly described and featured in D6 where both are facedancers that escaped their Bene Tleilax masters. As in, Daniel and Marty literally recap their own backstory while briefly interacting with Duncan Idaho near the end of D6.
Idiot boy Brian changed their names to Ominous and Erasmus. They are both Ultra powered million year old Terminators who fought in a war against humanity on modern day earth....
Which literally happens in both major Terminator movies made by James Cameron. Anyway, yeah everything Brian says or writes is horse crap. He never read his own father's books as a child or young adult. He was an insurance salesman for almost 25 years before magically becoming an author after his Dad died. He could have just allowed great writers to finish or deepen the Dune timeline...
But no. Instead he chose to be an author and write at a 7th grade level and absolutely crap on everything his father did by reducing an amazing fictional universe to this ..
Machines are bad. Humans are good.
This show was a bit all over the place. It was entertaining in general, but the more you appreciate Frank Herbert's Dune and Denis' movies the less I'd recommend this show. What makes great art so great is that it's open to interpretation. Having discussions about the intricacies and subtleties of art and it's meanings, or what it means specifically to the individual engaging with it, is what makes good art so .. good. To over-explain some of the finest points of the Dune books and Denis' movies... that's just painful to see. In a complete vacuum I'd give this show a 7.5 or 8/10. Taking into consideration the original books and Denis' movies, i'd drop that to a 5.5 or 6/10.
Maybe the cloaked figure is the Atriedes that got away from Tula.
Okay, so I didn't read the books. But, what I was picking up from the content providers, was that the Bene Geserate (sp) were supposed to be superior fighters. But, so far, in the movies and the TV series, they are not. Also, they are supposed to be super sensitive. So, how could someone sneak up on you and jab you with a Ben Jabbar (sp). BG should know when a person enters the room regardless of what they are doing. (even grieving )
Keep up the good fight, NC.
If a company decides to start a project like this, they need to throw money at an established script writer: Milius ( probably too old now). , Eggars, j Michael Strazinski ( how ever you spell his name). You need a big name like those guys.
This was the original plan. Then a woke mob demanded more female writers. True story. Delayed production and derailed the show in the name of woke nonsense. I mean this is a show about women starring women. It wasn't enough for the woke mob though. The writers had to be women too.
@@D7fromGuildno mention of DEI? No bingo for you.
12:45 THANK YOU 👏👏 I couldn't have said it better myself 😅
The Butlerian Jihad was about people (Titans) using thinking machines to enslave humanity but humanity fought back.
There was no intent for that mentioned before the prequel novels by the new authors. The Original intent was that people were becoming ignorant and incompetent at anything that required education such as higher mathematics & engineering because computers were doing that for them.
When it became obvious that they were unable to keep growing as a species, some finally realized that they needed to re-learn how to think for themselves. These people concluded that it was necessary to rid humanity of the crutches of computers, but some disagreed. The Butlerian Jihad was supporters of the idea vs those who wished to keep computers, not idiot brains stuck into machines like some comic book for kids.
Those whose memories are better than mine can correct any of this if it is incorrect.
The Terminator ripoff version of the Butlerian Jihad was pure Brian Herbert. The original idea for the Butlerian Jihad was more like humans smashing their smart phones and learning how to play musical instruments again. Brian Herbert quite literally just copied the entire premise of James Cameron's Terminator movies and slapped it onto Dune.
@@D7fromGuild Sounds about right to me.
@@haplozetetic9519you get it. The jihad was about eliminating the god of machine logic, which had made humans lazy, decadent and not terribly capable. The enslavement of humanity was one of dependence.
@@haplozetetic9519 accurate if you remove the unimportant Titans reference, the Jihad was about humanity fighting back against people who used thinking machines to enslave it. “Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” This is a direct quote from "Dune" by Frank Herbert.
Called it. Lol. Disappointed I was right and they already revealed it.
Always knew it was nano tech. But like by this period it’s like they don’t have any imagination of how he could kill with just a thought lol. AND rubbing his head for that matter , indicating some type of control. Hilarious that the emperor didn’t screen his own soldier/ bashar for weapons, or that he was a carrier of a banned weapon. 😂
Prophecy is just bad Dune fanfic. So few people understand Frank Herbert’s themes that it’s going to take someone of practically the same talent as his to do the works any real justice.
The HOODED FIGURE has a small glowing light ball in the chest area. What is this??
At 10:20 I completely understand your point, but I think they have made a few small mentions of how the religious people like dorotea and the butlerians are the ones right now who have the hate for thinking machines. You are right though, it would make a lot more sense if most of the imperium hated them (besides the ixians and tleilaxu maybe).
So what did the sisters see for eyes if the eyes were Desmond Hart's blurred vision? Why would the sisters see his vision?
I wondered that too. Maybe that will get explained why Dez' two greatest fears (getting swallowed by the worm and being on the operating table getting eye surgery) are part of what everyone sees (except Valya and Kasha do have their own different nightmare scenes - Valya on the ice in rough weather and Kasha being underneath Inez somewhere where sand is falling on her.
Because the script says so. Gotta keep churning out them mystery boxes. Now they have some time to figure out six or seven other boring subplots to play with before getting to the real story in like season 4 or 5.
Well one of them said god. I’m guessing they mistook the robots eyes for regular eyes since they only saw a little bit of Desmond’s memories whereas Valya could see all of it. It’s probably playing on the “bene gesserit controlling everything behind the scenes” like they’re gonna calm the girls down by making them believe it was a prophecy. Edit: it could also be Dorotea who makes them believe it’s a prophecy since she “back” and was more religious than valya
@@i_crave_death4660 But how are they even seeing his memories?
@@user-yw9ys3dz7x honestly idk they’re probably saving it for next season since they made it seem like it was more important? If that makes sense. Like I think because Valya has more years practicing the sisterhood techniques, isn’t really religious, and is entirely ambitious to follow Raquella’s plan that I think she was able to see passed the blue eyes sequence and was able to see what was really behind it. Where as the sister acolytes see it more in a religious lens. Idk 😭😭😭 I was more into the philosophical side of it prior to this episode and thought it he was the Proto- kwistaz haderach
I thought it was good
The eyes don't look the same. It might be a false lead to make us believe that these blue eyes were from a machine.
What they did with the littany against fear was awful. Sanitized is a great way to describe it.
3:13 Eyes of Ibad? More like Eyes of I-nasty. 👀
Someone educate me please. Francesca's garb was black. I assumed that meant she was a reverend mother. Yet she succumbed easily to poison when , by definition, a reverend mother...
It was cyanide, cyanide binds to the hemoglobin molecule, your cells starve for oxygen at the cellular level. What a wimp the emperor was. I am not fond of the righteous path the Lila storyline is developing into.
Dont try to make sense on shitty writing. You will only waste your time.
I’m glad someone else mentioned this because I had the same thought
I mean she could also not be dead. They could write her back in saying she underwent the agony (or synthesized the poison if she was already a RM). She appeared dead as that is what they are trained to do, shut down their metabolism to the point of appearing dead so they can have time to mute the poison
So the empressx has engaged in a coup ? With the emporer dead the daughter is now the empress, and the bg have her ,
I think this happened to fast the bg taking over in 30 years is ridiculously fast , they were only nearly readiy to take over and place a bg on the throne 10 thousand years from this point,
Something to do with the imperial desert botanical base's ? ( man , controlling the machine) no doubt the freman are going to receive a wild reverend mother, or thewill find and manipulate the freman , and give the freman combat skills, like ginaz sword master level ability, valya will plant the lisan al giab , ( based on her atreides / harkonan ) idea ,
Season two thoughs
Why are there Bene Geserit sisters espousing belief in their mythological god which they sow among humanity as a control method, and why would the 10k yesr distant god emperor figure into this story when it hadn't figured into jessica and paul's era until paul had undergone the first successful transmuation by a male? None of that makes any sense unless brian and kevin's writings feature that out of sequence material.
They might've been trying to see what worked, but they gotta stop with the brian books. Valya's backstory and family stuff was weak. And all the superficial attempts at politicking.
But get them slowly discovering everything. Even over explaining the litany of fear would be okay if they all forgot in the next 10K years so that it still is a cultural and thematic thing. Maybe even inspiration for doing more with genetics/biology to beat and no longer have support for the remnants of the machines.
Just never get into Vorian, Erasmus or anything like that! And stick with Frank's themes of human exceptionality and predisposition toward tyranny. And maybe ensure the details are lost in time even if the audience gets overexplanations.
Loved hearing your insights and keeping this show fun despite its superficial nature versus these videos.
I don’t know what this series was. But it wasn’t Dune. Since when are there female Mentats? It kills me.
I like the series and can't wait to see what happens next.
Thanks Elaine
This show holds no sway and frankly you’re not selling it as good
I do want to see more Dune on tv however i am not all that interested in seeing this get a second series and would rather someone else attempt a new dune series with a different focus.
You’ll get nothing and you’ll like it!
Well this Dune season1 is better than Starwars TV shows at least.
@@v4skunk739 gotta argue with that, Andor is one of the best piece of television show ever produced
We need to wait until Hollywood gets talent again and not this souless cash grab garbage.
Maybe the hooded figure was Dorotea?
Dorothea’s daughter maybe. Dorothea is dead.
I really hated the reveal about the blue eyes. Hoped there would’ve been a link to Leto II but the show kept defaulting to the less imaginative fanfic that BH/JHA have written about man vs. machine without any of the subtlety that we found in Herbert’s work. They should’ve lead with an episode dedicated to the Butlerian Jihad so people would have some context about why this society despises machines. A missed opportunity to really tie the show to Herbert’s original universe. What we were left with was confusing. The show mentioned Mentat sisters briefly when they figured so importantly in Dune yet seeing all the tech being used, including Desmond giving Harrow that recording device, the fear of machines feels out of context. The last complaint is the waste of Sister Theodosia. They set us up with such a breathtaking reveal about who she is and then let us down in the finale. Such clumsy writing. The attempt to keep dumbing down Herbert’s brilliant concepts is obvious. The show-runners need to determine whose story they’re telling. Frank Herbert’s or BK/KJA? There seems to be a conflict there which made the writing uneven though out the season.
The show’s main success was an accurate depiction of some of the spectacular imagery from Denis Villeneuve’s vision for the Dune movies.
@@CrimsonJackal I like your theory a lot!
@@D7fromGuild Imagine if Dorothea's daughter is also an Abomination and possessed by her Ego Memory.
We could have TWO Dorotheas at the same time. One in Lila and one in her mother, daughter of Dorothea.
Such a thing, although possible was NEVER mentioned in Dune lore.
@@pathfinder2reality that’s what I was alluding to. We’ll just have to wait until S2.
The one bright spot of this show was the actress who played the abomination I thought she was excellent. Writing, dialogue, fight scenes, special effects, sound design, acting, pretty much really really bad. Desmond was ok. Mark Strong as a bumbling indecisive love blind "emperor" is just insulting. What a waste. Loved your videos Nerd Cookies 🤙
It would be just like the Ixians or Tleilaxu. Sneaky.
Everything I hear from Brian H. readers tells me reading those books will only corrupt Dune for me.
I was sad when I got to the last Frank Herbert book too, but the answer is go back and read God Emperor, and avoid the prequelitis.
Check out the Dune Encyclopedia. Frank gave it his blessing. It's a Dune book written in the 1980s and it has nothing to do with Brian's lore.
I really enjoyed and loved season 1 of this show. I feel like the more hardcore ideological Dune fans who have their perceptions set in stone due to the books, don't appreciate this show.
The criticisms seem so deep in the weeds and self indulgent. "This is how I perceived the books and you can't deviate from that at all."
The show was very well written, thoughtful, great World building, political drama, acting, visual production etc.
They did a great job making this feel like it fits within the world of Denis Villeneuve's cinematic experience.
Dune isn't Denis Vellenueve. Denis Vellenueve is woke Dune. If even you like the DV movies, I would recommend the Frank Books. They are light years beyond DV's woke stark minimalism and very thought provoking.
I would also recommend watching the SciFi series Children of Dune. It is excellent and it is a telling of Frank Books 2 and 3.
@@D7fromGuild Could you explain what woke means to you? “Woke” can mean so many different things that it’s basically meaningless at this point. Thanks.
@@venomousspecifics45 DV changed Chani and Irulan to make them more girl bossy. Neither character can make a mistake now. Neither character can have a fault. Irulan is practically running the empire because her Joe Biden father can barely climb stairs so he just listens to her. Chani instead of being madly devoted to Paul and having three of his kids is now girl power to the extreme and will lead a revolution against bad male character Paul.
That is pure wokeness and that is what DV changed from two core characters of FH Dune. In the books, Irulan is a gorgeous but average BG who dropped out of training midway through. She is a very talented author which is completely the same (I guess) in book and DV movie. However, at no point does Irulan suggest government related ideas to her father Shaddam.
Also, (spoilers) Irulan is supposed to poison Chani and prevent a childbirth. Not only will Chani not be pregnant in the next film (she was already supposed to have a kid by now in the real timeline) but no way in hell DV will allow girl boss 1 to poison Girl Boss 2. And I would close by saying that Jessica's character went into Evil Girl boss territory. She supposed to a be loving mother. She is not nearly as Sisterhood above all as DV makes her out to be. But being a loving mother and raising Paul from a place of love isn't girl bossy enough for wokester DV so we got 3 girl bosses and one of them is an evil girl boss.
None of that nonsense happened in the books. They were basically normal characters and the only really other worldly exception was Paul (at least until his sister shows up).
@@venomousspecifics45He means, it had Black people in it.
After reading his response, it is also clear that he is a virgin incel who lives in his mother's basement.
@@D7fromGuild Don't forget the obvious example - gender swapping Liet Kynes. It breaks the whole "The Imperium is patriarchal and so the BG must operate in extreme secrecy" thing Frank set up. Now there's a woman who achieves a very high position seemingly on her own, answering only to the Emperor as the Judge of the Change and the planetologist in charge of the most important planet in the Imperium. Why didn't the Sisterhood try to bring her into the fold? We know from the books that's totally in their playbook, but we're not supposed to think about it. The change was purely for political reasons.
Dune is a very delicate collection of parts, like a jenga pile. Nudging one out of place can really bring the whole thing down.
I said he was probably an android ... he's technically a cyborg, so I was kind of right.
This episode was OK, but the series as a whole was really disappointing. Desmond Hart being of Atrades and Harkonnen is simply lazy writing. Now the Lisan Al Gaib prophecy is just a description of Desmond. The Emperor had no other character trait but being weak. The revolutionary cell was not fully thought out and seemed without purpose. Neither built enough tension for me to give a damn. The humans behind Desmond's operation were either Ixian or Tleilaxu or both. It could lead to be why both groups are held in such suspicion in Paul's era. I haven't read all the the Brian Herbert books but so much of the narratives in the show (ie an Empress instead of an Emperor, litany against fear) in this first season don't feel like the could lead to the Frank Herbert's world. I hope it gets better in the next season.
The hooded figure is Empress Natalya. She harbours intense hatred toward the Sisterhood and would go to such lengths to destroy them.
That's why she protected Desmond in the beginning and persuaded the Emperor not to kill him, but use him, to his detriment at rhe end.
However, she is also a pawn in a greater game with Tleilaxu and Ixians being involved also.
They are also pawns to the Great Enemy, the Hivemind Omnius probably.
Sister Theodosia also has ulterior motives and is probably an agent of the Tleilaxu, pretending to serve the Sisterhood, but is in fact faithfuly serving the Tleilaxu Masters
I agree about Theo. In the entire series the reader can never trust a Tleilaxu. They always have self-serving motives for their actions (exceptions to this made for two face dancers at the end of Chapterhouse).
My theory is that the misterious hooded figure is another Bene Gesserit. Just because the show is about them and also because tv/movie writers have a habit of doing this sort of plot
Maybe Dorothea's daughter?
Lila's mother?
One of the sisters in E6 said it's not human.
But hey, to much information of Desmond would be very Brian Herbert according to this content creator. I guess they left some mystery after all. It's amazing what happens when you wait for the entire story to be told instead of over analyzing with the desire for to much information, hmmm....
I called it!
I wish Desmond was portrayed by another actor besides Travis Fimmel; he is just not very skilled. The whole wobbly-twitchy head with the side eye and slurred speech (accent?) just brings down an otherwise solid production.
machine war machine war machine war!
When the films don’t follow the books fanboys cry. Get over it. It’s called creative license. They judge it solely on how close it followed the books, Boring. The intent is not to blindly follow the original work, but to ‘base’ it on the books. The lessons are the same, humanity, jehad, conflict, thinking machines. But, like butt holes, everyone has one, regurgitating butt hole juice or whatever
or they have no merit on their own so they hijack and mutilate worldbuilding from dead writers to cash on. I don't know why you are cheering for trash
If you want to tell a fresh story, then tell it! However, if you want to ride the coat tails of what came before and feed off an already established audience, you'll need to 'give the people what they want'.
I thought this show was weak. Spoon feeding, over explaining prequels are the true mind killers
This show was bad. Woke girls drama
I don't think the butlerian jihad stuff is confusing at all. It's like 100+ years after those wars.
Look at history - you said it yourself in this video - Herbert looked at how we progressed and regressed over time.
It's clear in this story - and I haven't read the Brian Herbert books - than not everyone is part of the jihad - hence the technology that is still around.
What is confusing about that? I just don't get some of these criticisms...
This story uses the elements of Brian's books, but I think it's clear that it's not a total adaptation. So it's not supposed to be a 1:1 recreation of those stories.
You dont understand, it was a Holy War meaning they killed everybody that had them and machines would be destroyed. What Herbert meant by progression and regression
was politics and philosophy. You do understand how many people Pauls jihad killed? You people think of this like modern brain with no imagination, you think of this like
"well they banned tiktok, but I can still use instagram", thats not how it worked in Dune. War lasted 100 years, and those 100y they destroyed everything they could.
Writers are idiots that dont get it, it seems that not many so called Dune fans get it either.
i didn't like this show and i'm not looking forward to more.
Loved this show so much!!
The show is Brian Herbert Dune - generic action-oriented escapist and forgettable sci fi.
The show is a cringe carnival. An amateurish mess in every way possible
The thing your forgetting we that this is the beginning of the imperium and it’s not like you are have no thinking machines like we do by Paul’s time
Rather it’s still a process of purging so people are bound to still have them and not be as narcissistic towards machines as they are later on
Wow, this show was terrible from beginning to end! HBO does some great shows but they sure missed the mark here. The writing, the acting, the story, bad, bad, bad!!
Genetically engineered sand-worm perhaps?
I have a theory, that the person at the end is Duncan Idaho working with Erasmus.
From the last book of Frank Herbert we know, that null-ship with Duncan, last Bene Gesserit and Tleilaxu master escaped trap settled by Daniel and Marty, trap involving tachyon web. Tachyon is the key part. Tachyon is a theoretical particle traveling back in time, to escape tachyon web you have to perform time jump.We don't know the direction, only that the ship ended in a void, univers without any star, and was rescued by Oracle of Time, Norma Cenva.
Brian Herbert's book series ended with Duncan Idaho merging into one entity with Erasmus.
In one place and time we have sandworm, with a sleeping mind of god empire, Tleilaxu master with knowladge of gholas, Bene Geserit, which perfected act of restoring gholas memories. Duncan Idach and Erasmus, with knowladge of time travel and holding full power of thinking machines.
A logical move would be to send them into past. One objective would be to place sandworms on Arrakis, converting the planet in Dune. Second, make sure that humanity will follow path into the right future. Resurecting Desmond Hart, using trace of blood from a scrap of his old uniform would be a one step. (Why did I say something about a piece of cloth? Because this scrap is Desmond's most precious belonging, and may be the only connection into his old live)
This show is a joke, still cant believe they renewed it since its not even that popular. Its small brain mysterybox, barely even fanfic, its CW level writing and not smart SCIFI, people still
fall for memberberry stuff. Well just wanted to see how it ended and now I am going to move on and let this horrible cringe vanish from my memory, maybe I will read some Franks
writing to cleanse myself, hell even Brians writing is better than this soap garbage.
The season has a ton of muddled plots. I would’ve preferred Desmond Hart had immediately killed the little boy for his thinking machine toy and the emperor using it as a pretext for the Sardukar gaining power thru enforcement of that law, with the Bene Gesserit put in a favorable light by their use of their “maternal” influence to nurture righteous actions. This would’ve been truer to Frank’s Dune themes than Brian/Kevins Terminator themes and a more straightforward set of plots. Sadly I lost all hope the moment I saw Ynez’s swordplay…
Desmond needs an actual sister to build some heart into his character. By being weaponized and left for dead by both the Sisterhood, and his Mom; and the forces of cybernetic death attacking the Sisterhood, he is bound to develop self destructive and misogynistic tendencies. The only resolution to this is to have an actual connection to a woman he can respect and favor in his own life, and, ultimately, to love as an equal. This may not become part of the storyline, but I think it is something this character will need in order not to become a destructive monster! This is more a personal note and a reflection on a character whose portrayal of obscure and abandoned suffering is for me the only real high point in the series. I don’t appreciate matronly muderesses as a counter-point story line, so I am left as a viewer truly only rooting for Desmond to become humane and more human. He needs to find a love beyond the love of fleshly romances, or embittered lost female mother-objects, in order to succeed at being more than just an accumulator of revenge motives and casual, addicted hatreds. So, a kind of sister not sunk into the Sisterhood would be needed to give his story arc the kind of development and transformation that can lead to a satisfying resultion. We will need to see in him growth, change, and reconsideration of personal and impersonal motives. To this end, a kind of respectful admiration of a female who fills the lost mother object role and at the same time a teammate and rival, such a a true ‘sister’ might provide, could lead to a fulfilling plot that allows the show to reach a new height not forseen by this first season. I like the Desmond Hart character, but he will need a kind of redemption not centered around power or its use and acquisition. Love, a sisterly and sustained supporting kind; instead of a romantic and sexual kind, can make this show achieve a level higher than its current plateau. That said, I still would much prefer to watch Raised By Wolves on Blu Ray more than sit through another season of this far inferior show. I wish I could be watching a season 3 and waiting for a season 4 of that great epic! I might just cancel Max as there is nothing very satisfying about this drama, or any if it’s other offerings. Just a personal gripe, apologies! I want to see what Father gets up to, and how Mother escapes her forced subjection to hyper-sleep! What does Grandmother have planned for our hapless band of tribal survivors in this desperate land of Kepler 22b? Inquiring minds want to know! This show is tired and regrettable in my own opinion. To me, a true ‘sister act’ is the only thing that can save it as an entertaining and growth oriented narrative. Thanks for your great vids!
Im here to say that I really like the series
Me too.
@@LolitaDavidovich934me three
I saw a few things 'off', but I'm keeping an open mind and enjoying the effort made.
Have not seen the episode yet but when I am finished I will comment on X and here.
Hate being negative about anything related to my beloved dune but this show sucked. Next film by Denis then children to chapter house as an HBO series then just stop.
I'd like an original creation in the Dune universe set in the Butlerian Jihad.
I preferred this production to the Denis Villeneuve production.
What "sucked" about it?
@@LolitaDavidovich934me too. DV sucked all the fresh air out of the franchise for me. His movies all feel post apocalyptic where humans can no longer feel joy. The dialogue is like Russian prisons in terms of warm interactions with each other.
Further, DV completely rewrote the Chani, Irulan and Jessica characters. DV claims to be this huge Dune fan but he won't release deleted scenes and did his own 180 degree spin on three main characters.
People in this thread are so funny. She has posted multiple videos about the same messages that the show has its issues and is different than the FH’s main books. Not only that, there other production, acting and writing issues in this show. We have known that since earlier episodes. Yet you guys keep making an effort to complain. You don’t need to watch it.
There is a lot of good aspects in this show and some align with FH’s books (which NerdCookie pointed out). Why not focus on the good parts and be hopeful for the next season?
because upholding standards is important for the future of mankind. you can find this exact same message in the Dune books too
@@solarydays okay? it's a tv show, you can uphold standards by just simply not watching it... they will cancel the show if ratings or viewership declines. They already renewed a 2nd season. Those have already made up their minds that this show is terrible will not continue to watch it. So what good is constantly complaining gonna do? You can either simply stop supporting or focus on the good and hope for the best.
@@maxtran7441 so what you have a problem with is free speech?
@@solarydays You are free to keep complaining if that is what makes you happy
@@maxtran7441 you are complaining about people complaining tho? it's not like you practice what you preach.
not like you shouldn't be able to, but you are bothered that others are allowed to do the very same thing you are doing...
by your own logic you shouldn't be here reading comments you don't like
Wow this show is bad. There are a few ideas that are cool to see realized but they're not worth the price of producing this series. Potentially ruining the Bene Geserit vibe of the films.
While I did like the show overall, it lacks the depth of frank Herberts work. It tries to disguise this shortcoming by skimming through too many characters and storylines. If we get season 2, I hope for better writing and more focused storylines.
Aha ha haa She has thoughts. Let us be indulged by these thoughts whilst enjoy mint aero bar and cup o tea !!! lol. Cheers Happy xmas for 2mozza.
I'm Greatly Disappointed.. This Series has Mutated the intent of the DUNE history and World. I agree with your more negative thoughts and ideas about the direction and narrative that they've taken..(sigh)
.. I'm not interested in this story line. [Apologies to Frank Hubert.]
Definitely not written as well as it should’ve been, like the shape changer, changing into the princes for no reason whatsoever? I’m assuming there are women writers and really they should never be women writers have women ever written anything worth a shit ever in television or movies?
Cringe melodramatic acting. Characters I don’t care about. Plot? I dunno.
I read a few Brian Herbert books after Frank died and felt exactly the same.
I figured I’d give it a shot but not surprised.
But the visuals are good lol
Your voice sounds different 😮
The time line is a little hard to swallow. All these things are around 10000 years before dune? Then no tech advances for an that time. Did enjoy the series though. Would prefer the story of how these things develop.