Wow. I’ve been watching and reading about this stuff for two/three years. I sort of do most of the right things by feel, but I’ve never truly understood what I’m doing and there are times I don’t know what the right decision is. But this video is amazing, it makes it really clear. Even just recognising one or two circle - I’ve been running through a bunch of factors to work out which one I’m in, turns out it’s nose-tail = two circle, nose-nose = one! I really, really appreciate the style and content here. And I’m about to go and look at all the previous vids. Keep it up, please!
This and the one circle fight video are exactly what I’ve needed! Flying anything other than the mirage 2000C I’ve been really struggling, even against the basic AI. These really put me on the right track, thanks for the videos!
Great info. I want to call attention to the beginning of your Two Circle Mechanics where you have in game footage of the aircraft going back and forth. Please use more of that IN ADDITION to your whiteboard circles. As you're explaining the TCX, it would have been amazingly effective to show what in-game footage will look like when identifying the time to perform the TCX rather than drawing on a white board and leaving it to imagination.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyomI know it’s very late to ask, but could you do a dedicated video on turn circle extensions? I’ve tried my best to visualize the whiteboard content and replicate it in-game, but I’m still struggling really badly to reduce my aspect angle. It seems as if I can never make low-aspect shots, despite always being in lag pursuit.
Great video man. Can not wait for the 1 circle vid. I haven't yet figured out how to balance between turn rate and turn radious to nose on to the bandit as fast as possible.
Yep but an aware bandit will take a every degree per second possible that you leave on the table while attempting TCX. It's a difficult balance because attempting to align a circle in a neutral fight will result in the fight no longer being neutral (in the opponents favor). Far better to use the vertical plane in order to force more decision making on the part of the opponent rather than turning purely in the horizontal plane and hoping for magic to happen. (degrees never come from nowhere)
That's a fantastic video! The extension I had been doing but not really understanding it. Awesome explanation. 👌 I struggle with the guys that want to go vertical at the merge on BFM servers. Any guidence. Hard work with more powerful fighters like the 15 and 16. I'm concentrating on the Gornet Atm. Thanks 😊
I'll probably have to make a video on the vertical element at some point. Historically, going into the vertical was something reserved for a fight where your jet has a performance advantage over your opponent. However, these BFM lessons were made for USAF student pilots who were all flying the same aircraft. So there's no performance advantage to exploit. That's why it's not really pushed in the lessons.
Best vids for actual learning and comprehension. Please keep up the good work! Also, are any of the source documents you reference in the public domain?
Yes actually. For this video I heavily referenced the following TTP: static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/aetc/publication/aetcttp11-1/aetcttp11-1.pdf
Fantastic series that I’m finding really useful and enjoyable. Not so sure about TCXs though as described. Based on the diagram, extending at that position makes sense, but at that time the bandit has the angles advantage. In my mind extending would allow the bandit to close the 90-ish degrees of AOT and make it a lot harder to get your angles back. Have I perceived something incorrectly? Usually what I do in that high AOT pass is chuck a high yo-yo to prevent overshooting. Thanks for the awesome vids!
What you say makes a lot of sense. My guess is that the reason the AF teaches that picture isn't to get around the circle more quickly. As you pointed out correctly that's now how you do it. It's purely to get you on the Bandit's turn circle. In the sim I have tried out chasing down the Bandit using what came to me instinctually and then later following the TCX method. What I found was I got to a gun solution in fewer turns around the circle using a TCX then when I tried to cut the corner. So I see a lot of wisdom in the way the AF teaches it. There's so much going on in BFM its really hard to visualize it all. So I find it best to hop in the sim and work it out. Thankfully DCS is really good for this stuff.
Sorry for the late reply. Most of the time I practice it's in low fuel state 4th Gen fighters which makes things much easier energy-wise. Likely makes the benefits of such manoeuvres harder to see. May I ask how you practice particular set-ups in DCS? Is there a way to make the AI Cooperative? Again, great videos, and fantastic insight!
@@dancerfa-1893 The way I practiced all the exercises in these videos is with either a Perch or Butterfly setup as shown. To get the most of these you do need another human being in a second aircraft. The best you can do with it AI is script some aerobatics in. So a turn in one direction might work to practice TCXs. Hope that helps.
Hey I didnt get the Turn Circle Extension part that cue with aircrafts position and the bottel and the degrees. Also usually when the circles are misalined I never get the aircraft positioned over the canopy like that only when its almost point its noae at me like in 4:10
What should you do if you end up in a two circle "stalemate"? I understand IRL this gives time for your buddies to show up but say in a game you're just turning seemingly endlessly, say against a fighter with a better turn rate (and the best you can do is sort of neutralize that)
Robin Olds called that scenario the "Rat Race" and its a no win situation. Both fighters make themselves vulnerable to a third fighter coming in for a quick kill. The goal is to recognize that situation before you enter into it. If you can't quickly resolve a fight then you shouldn't start it.
Thanks. I'm actually really overwhelmed with the positive response I've gotten from making this channel. It's grown a lot faster than I expected. I really appreciate all the folks that have subscribed and watched. It's awesome to see so many people are into the same things as me.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom YEA i love the content its best for new players and the ppole that follow their dreams to become a pilot and you are making it better
What about when you're almost behind the enemy, but not yet on a good position for a gun kill, turning endlessly. If you pull the stick harder you loose energy and can't turn so loose the position, and if you keep at that, the positions don't change an you just keep turning?
Now this is a great question. The situation you're talking about is not a good one to be in. Robin Olds had a name for it. He called it the "Rat Race". The US Air Force has a solution to that problem: bring a friend. And if you're interested in learning how that works check out my Air Combat Maneuvering series: th-cam.com/play/PLd5Qdmhmp3Y6ePAmWQ4_eG596CE645sCF.html&si=Y59EowJPoP214JWn
Thanks. During my time in the USAF I was not actually a pilot, but a programmer. I did get to work extensively with pilots who were the SMEs for various projects I worked on. The things I cover in these videos are always based on real world documentation where possible. In the case of this video I used the actual training manual the USAF uses for BFM. I want to make sure you guys are getting more than just my opinion on the subject.
So when you do the correction, to make the circles concentric, what do you do after to outrate the opponent? Or is there nothing you can do if your planes are the same, except hope they make a mistake?
You're exactly right. If the planes are the same (which they are in USAF training) then you're not going to outperform the bandit. That's why you bring a friend to a fight. When you're keeping the bandit busy turning with you, your wingman is lining up a shot. That teamwork is the entire focus of the next video series: Air Combat Maneuvering.
My job in the Air Force was programming, and I did a lot of sim and wargame development. In that time I got to interact with a lot of SMEs including fighter pilots. So not exactly a pilot myself but its where I learned about this stuff.
Weapons Engagement Zone (WEZ). This is the (usually) cone shaped area in front of a fighter where a weapon can hit a target. So you want to place your enemy in your WEZ and stay out of the enemy's WEZ.
Give this guy more subs! A great asset for new DCS pilots.
Thanks, Matt! The shout out is much appreciated.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom Seriously, excellent content.
New, I've been flying for 3 years and only wish I found this last sooner😂
A great asset for experienced DCS pilots too.
Wow. I’ve been watching and reading about this stuff for two/three years. I sort of do most of the right things by feel, but I’ve never truly understood what I’m doing and there are times I don’t know what the right decision is. But this video is amazing, it makes it really clear. Even just recognising one or two circle - I’ve been running through a bunch of factors to work out which one I’m in, turns out it’s nose-tail = two circle, nose-nose = one! I really, really appreciate the style and content here. And I’m about to go and look at all the previous vids. Keep it up, please!
been following these for a while, i really enjoy the "schoolboard" style of teaching! really appreciate these
I'm glad to hear people are finding these useful.
This and the one circle fight video are exactly what I’ve needed! Flying anything other than the mirage 2000C I’ve been really struggling, even against the basic AI. These really put me on the right track, thanks for the videos!
Thank you for your excellent way you present this info. Flight simmers everywhere owe it to themsleves to watch your channel!
Great info. I want to call attention to the beginning of your Two Circle Mechanics where you have in game footage of the aircraft going back and forth. Please use more of that IN ADDITION to your whiteboard circles. As you're explaining the TCX, it would have been amazingly effective to show what in-game footage will look like when identifying the time to perform the TCX rather than drawing on a white board and leaving it to imagination.
Good suggestion. I'll make sure to do more of that.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyomI know it’s very late to ask, but could you do a dedicated video on turn circle extensions? I’ve tried my best to visualize the whiteboard content and replicate it in-game, but I’m still struggling really badly to reduce my aspect angle. It seems as if I can never make low-aspect shots, despite always being in lag pursuit.
Thanks! Ive heard these terms thrown around in the games I play but Ive never really gotten it. Now understand it a lot better.
Dangerously well made video! Kudos!!!
Great video man. Can not wait for the 1 circle vid. I haven't yet figured out how to balance between turn rate and turn radious to nose on to the bandit as fast as possible.
We'll be going over all that in the 1 circle video which is next in the queue.
The Jeremiah weed bottle…. Rest in piece friend.
Thank you! And I learned that I have to bring my Bourbon whiskey to the circles ;)
Wow excellent video. World class.
Great video once again, keep up the great work!
Thanks, NineLine. I really appreciate the positive feedback and plan on making more.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom I look forward to it, shared this one on Twitter and FB today. Thanks again
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom Hey if you are on Discord, reach out to me.
Another great one!
Thanks Mike!
Excellent video! thanks !!
thank you !
Very informative, thx!
Yep but an aware bandit will take a every degree per second possible that you leave on the table while attempting TCX. It's a difficult balance because attempting to align a circle in a neutral fight will result in the fight no longer being neutral (in the opponents favor). Far better to use the vertical plane in order to force more decision making on the part of the opponent rather than turning purely in the horizontal plane and hoping for magic to happen. (degrees never come from nowhere)
Look, you don't have to call us out so hard at 5:23 LOL
It's so prevalent now that it's become a meme. I had to include it. 😆
That's a fantastic video! The extension I had been doing but not really understanding it. Awesome explanation. 👌 I struggle with the guys that want to go vertical at the merge on BFM servers. Any guidence. Hard work with more powerful fighters like the 15 and 16. I'm concentrating on the Gornet Atm. Thanks 😊
I'll probably have to make a video on the vertical element at some point. Historically, going into the vertical was something reserved for a fight where your jet has a performance advantage over your opponent.
However, these BFM lessons were made for USAF student pilots who were all flying the same aircraft. So there's no performance advantage to exploit. That's why it's not really pushed in the lessons.
Not the energy drinks and tornadoes for reference 😭
Shared your channel with my community, help you gain some more traction :-)
Best vids for actual learning and comprehension. Please keep up the good work! Also, are any of the source documents you reference in the public domain?
Yes actually. For this video I heavily referenced the following TTP: static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/aetc/publication/aetcttp11-1/aetcttp11-1.pdf
Fantastic series that I’m finding really useful and enjoyable. Not so sure about TCXs though as described. Based on the diagram, extending at that position makes sense, but at that time the bandit has the angles advantage. In my mind extending would allow the bandit to close the 90-ish degrees of AOT and make it a lot harder to get your angles back. Have I perceived something incorrectly? Usually what I do in that high AOT pass is chuck a high yo-yo to prevent overshooting. Thanks for the awesome vids!
What you say makes a lot of sense. My guess is that the reason the AF teaches that picture isn't to get around the circle more quickly. As you pointed out correctly that's now how you do it. It's purely to get you on the Bandit's turn circle.
In the sim I have tried out chasing down the Bandit using what came to me instinctually and then later following the TCX method. What I found was I got to a gun solution in fewer turns around the circle using a TCX then when I tried to cut the corner.
So I see a lot of wisdom in the way the AF teaches it. There's so much going on in BFM its really hard to visualize it all. So I find it best to hop in the sim and work it out. Thankfully DCS is really good for this stuff.
Sorry for the late reply. Most of the time I practice it's in low fuel state 4th Gen fighters which makes things much easier energy-wise. Likely makes the benefits of such manoeuvres harder to see. May I ask how you practice particular set-ups in DCS? Is there a way to make the AI Cooperative? Again, great videos, and fantastic insight!
@@dancerfa-1893 The way I practiced all the exercises in these videos is with either a Perch or Butterfly setup as shown. To get the most of these you do need another human being in a second aircraft. The best you can do with it AI is script some aerobatics in. So a turn in one direction might work to practice TCXs.
Hope that helps.
Hey I didnt get the Turn Circle Extension part that cue with aircrafts position and the bottel and the degrees. Also usually when the circles are misalined I never get the aircraft positioned over the canopy like that only when its almost point its noae at me like in 4:10
What should you do if you end up in a two circle "stalemate"? I understand IRL this gives time for your buddies to show up but say in a game you're just turning seemingly endlessly, say against a fighter with a better turn rate (and the best you can do is sort of neutralize that)
Robin Olds called that scenario the "Rat Race" and its a no win situation. Both fighters make themselves vulnerable to a third fighter coming in for a quick kill.
The goal is to recognize that situation before you enter into it. If you can't quickly resolve a fight then you shouldn't start it.
I'm no USAF pilot, but I know exactly how tall a bottle of Jerry Reed is.
Daaayyyum why you don't get so many followers you deserve 4 milion not 4 thousant
Thanks. I'm actually really overwhelmed with the positive response I've gotten from making this channel. It's grown a lot faster than I expected. I really appreciate all the folks that have subscribed and watched. It's awesome to see so many people are into the same things as me.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom YEA i love the content its best for new players and the ppole that follow their dreams to become a pilot and you are making it better
What about when you're almost behind the enemy, but not yet on a good position for a gun kill, turning endlessly. If you pull the stick harder you loose energy and can't turn so loose the position, and if you keep at that, the positions don't change an you just keep turning?
Now this is a great question.
The situation you're talking about is not a good one to be in. Robin Olds had a name for it. He called it the "Rat Race".
The US Air Force has a solution to that problem: bring a friend. And if you're interested in learning how that works check out my Air Combat Maneuvering series: th-cam.com/play/PLd5Qdmhmp3Y6ePAmWQ4_eG596CE645sCF.html&si=Y59EowJPoP214JWn
Great stuff! Are u a real Tiger pilot?!
Thanks. During my time in the USAF I was not actually a pilot, but a programmer. I did get to work extensively with pilots who were the SMEs for various projects I worked on. The things I cover in these videos are always based on real world documentation where possible. In the case of this video I used the actual training manual the USAF uses for BFM. I want to make sure you guys are getting more than just my opinion on the subject.
So when you do the correction, to make the circles concentric, what do you do after to outrate the opponent? Or is there nothing you can do if your planes are the same, except hope they make a mistake?
You're exactly right. If the planes are the same (which they are in USAF training) then you're not going to outperform the bandit. That's why you bring a friend to a fight. When you're keeping the bandit busy turning with you, your wingman is lining up a shot.
That teamwork is the entire focus of the next video series: Air Combat Maneuvering.
Doesnt the enemy just reverse back into you when you hit the extension?
Hey i take it you flew fighters in the usaf what fighter did you fly ??
My job in the Air Force was programming, and I did a lot of sim and wargame development. In that time I got to interact with a lot of SMEs including fighter pilots. So not exactly a pilot myself but its where I learned about this stuff.
I miss Jeremiah Weed
What's expect
What does WES mean?
Weapons Engagement Zone (WEZ). This is the (usually) cone shaped area in front of a fighter where a weapon can hit a target. So you want to place your enemy in your WEZ and stay out of the enemy's WEZ.
@@TheOpsCenterByMikeSolyom thank you so much! Your tutorials have helped a ton with simulator/arcade battles.
.