I had little understanding of the SNC, but glad that I watched this podcast, educating myself. Dr. Mariam Chughtai deserves a salute for offering her views so elaborately, logically, and patiently that people like me, 70+ seniors, were able to absorb its essentials, and indeed the need for such an undertaking. Failure is very much a part of life, but not trying something is almost criminal. Wish you the best for its success, Dr. Maryam. I am also happy to learn that our history of wars, especially the 1971 war, will be presented more objectively, which will be a very challenging task, though. I also hope that we change our language soon enough for respecting the other religions from a humble لحاظ to realigning it as deserved for our own religion. Like always, it was good to watch the host fight the devil's battle aggressively and spiritedly with incisive questions. ❤️
Summing it up " Skepticism changes in face of facts but paranoia does not" - Dr Mariam The interviewer was totally clueless in front of astute and articulate Dr Mariam Chughtai. Totally debased all propaganda from the left against SNC. Great communication. Loved it!
Disappointed with the interview. The main topic should be Single National Curriculum and its benefits, problems and impacts discussed separately than problems in the Pakistani education system and educational laws in Pakistan Constitution. Lots of questions have been answered by the guest before in different interviews are repeated here. The main focus of discussion was how this system will impact elite educational institutions (which is not a problem as many of big primary textbooks publications in Pakistan like Oxford, Gohar, Afaq etc have got NOC for most of their titles) or madrassas rather than is it doing anything to upgrade the public and less expensive private schools? If we research the school-going children in Pakistan, 90% of children go to public or private schools which have fees from Rs 500 to Rs 2500 per month.
I can not say this enough times. Shehzad you are greattt at what you do. I do not have a lot of exposure, par jitnay logon ko host kartay , interview laitay suna hai mene aj tak, you are the best. You do a thorough homework, you know what your guest has been up to, what have they said, done, tweeted, written, what other opinions are there on that topic. You work on the topic exceptionally well, put counter-opinions that make the guest brainstorm and give more insights. It feels like the whole interviews goes in your head before the actual one, you know what they'll say and how you ll respond and what they'll say in response to your response. Still you actually listen what they have to say although you already know what they are going to say and present a counter-argument. May be it is the law background that makes it so well. May be it is the unhealthy level of empathy that pays off here. You, Shehzad, make these podcasts interesting, interesting enough that a person like me (who scrolls a 15 sec tiktok after 3 seconds) ends up listening to hours of your content and that too multiple times. You are respectful towards people you disagree with, yet you say what you stand for. When i am amazed by some podcast I go to the youtube page of the guest, or other talks given by your guest, it is never the same, never. It is always you who brings out the best in people. You help them, push them into saying what they think in a much better way. Great job man. Allah ta'ala ap k liay dunia aur akhirat main aasani karay.
@@ThePakistanExperience la haula wala quwwat, un sahab ka to naam bhi na lo ap apnay comparison main, koi muqabala hi nahi hai. Main to ap ka muqabala un logon sai kar rahi thi jo bazahir suljhay huay lagtay hain, parhay likhay hain, guftgu achay sai kar laitay hain. Wo long form podacst ka format to adopt kar laitay hain, but they seem to severly lack in home work, jesay ap har tarah k topic pai puri jaan laga k mehnat kar k atay ho. Muje baki podcasts pheeki pheeki, superficial si lagti hain. Lagta hai banday bus agaya hai guest sai baat karnay, wahin apnay us banday pai alag research ki hoti hai aur us topic pai alag. Even your pauses seem planned. Shaid law main case present karna sikhatay hain is liay. Empaths can read people as well, i think. They can sense where the other person is coming from, pick up on very minute cues in body language and expressions. That helps you in taking the conversation deeper and getting more insights than others. I have seen people abuse empathy as well, making the guest shed a tear or two but that seems so fake and done-for-views that i feel bad for the guest who let their gaurd down.
@@ThePakistanExperience I disagree with you as well or i guess my core beliefs get shaken and i feel insecure 😅 But i really respect you for what you do and excelling at it.
"Skepticism can change in the face of facts, paranoia cannot". This quote of Dr. completely summarizes your conduct in taking the interview. Give me one timestamp when you actually conceded your point acknowledging the answer before throwing the next red herring.
i dont think there were any red herrings, just questions asked from the wrong person (you cant get the prime minister on the show though). she had no choice but to either not answer them or divert them to something that is under her jurisdiction.
@@ThePakistanExperience "Who" means who Shehzad Bhai ? Does it mean your good self or those against SNC ? Always remember that an individual is just a fly on the wall in the " history " of human kind and your adaptation of superior posture against such an enlightened personality does not do any good to your podcast or your image as an unbiased/open-minded interviewer as apparent from several other podcasts watched by me. Is it because the present guest is an accomplished woman and you cannot overcome your male chauvinistic urges to bash everything she says while you drool over second rate male personalities appearing in your podcasts ? I hope you will take this criticism positively and become a better person. As regards "let history vindicate" comment, Madame Chugtai will definitely occupy a deserved spot for her labours as an accomplished educationist who tried to revolutionize educational system in Pakistan with SNC in the face strong opposition.
Shehzad Bhai, it was agreat podcast and a perfect person to ask such questions from. I really appreciate the hard questions u asked bx that basically help in revealing the actual thruth in the age of misinformation and disinformation. I really was expecting you to question about the need for the inclusion of comprehensive sexuality education in Pakistan's national curriculum bx I beleive and I have researched on it that its absence is one of the basic reasons behind the catalysing gender hate and gender crimes in Pakistan and its inclusion can really help in eradicating this evil from our society.
@@ThePakistanExperience its more about negligence than deliberate attempt. The attempt to islamize the curriculum adversely affected the real spirit of this discipline
Dear Shahzad, please invite Amitav Ghosh on your podcast. He is a fantastic author and has written on climate change and colonialism which are two of your favorite topics.
@@mohdbilalabbasi not obsessed at all. Just like talking about the possibilities. I make it sound like I do them alot. I don't even smoke up, I just like talking about this stuffm
On one hand, I saw someone who's knee deep in the mess that Pakistan state and it's constitution is and trying to move forward one step at a time without burning it all down. On the other hand I see a nihilist.
Baat ghumany me mahir hen Dr. Sahiba. All of those basic questions raised by Prof Hoodbhoy still stand. It's funny how she tried to save the PM ass and her job by saying "amar bil maroof wa nahi aninal munkir"
She did not answer any of the tough questions. She just alluded to the SNC actually secularising the education system but slowly. Which doesn’t seem to be the case when you look at the arguments presented against SNC. There was no answer to why schools require NOCs on the presence of laws either. I am as in the dark as I was before watching this interview. No enlightenment here old chap
Sad that you feel this way. Seems like you are the only one or are among the few as most comments including myself found it very enlightening. The whole issue of NOC was repeatedly addressed. It's not her requirement. It's up to the provincial governments.
Mariam chughtai very intelligent and she knows what shez doing and it's not that straight forward as we all know it's not gonna happen over night it will take generations but hopefully we will see some kind of improvement in our life time
This was a very good podcast. Thanks shahzad for arranging this and I am impressed that Dr Mariam came to the podcast too. I feel like I know way more about SNC than earlier. I also liked when she said that when was the last time we had this kind of passionate discussion around education in Pakistan. I feel if this will make madrassahs better, that would be great as I have very closely seen a madrassahs only focusing on making kids "Hafiz e Quran" and not teaching them anything until they 12 or 13. I also felt shahzad that you were dismissive at few places, especially around quran kiun padhaya jaraha hai n all but bhai our country is called "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" to woh to hoga na and she is not incharge of all of that. So, I am a little more hopeful now.
Thanks Fahad. I never said "Quran kyon parhaya ja raha hay", I asked her if she is against rote learning, why make kids read in Arabic from 1st to 5th grade, where they won't even understand it, and she said it is the law, and she has nothing to do with it.
Dr mariam answered all the questions but i felt that she was talking that she had a limited domain and tried to do things within that...rest doesn't matter... that may be satisfied her but did not satisfy us... But anyways Shahzad ... thanks for all this effort...
She is only the director of the national curriculum board with limited power. Blaming all things wrong in Pakistan education system on her, and is wrong. The lack of research in this interview is so frustrating.
@@sz54321 i heard her for the very first time... But i think that every person in this country on any post says, he or she has limited power...like decision making seems to be decentralised not centralized.. I believe in decentralization in management.. but i don't understand here if every one one has limited power and can't make things better then who will make them better... Like here so many parties are involved in making SNC .fedral government has its input.. she has her in put.. religious input with many sectors is there...provinces have their input... but still there are many things with question mark... so confusing ... i had a question for her regarding the biology text of SNC ... but i did not get the answer...
@@ThePakistanExperience sir IK comparing mangai with Bangladesh and India, india has PMGKAY program 80 crores get atta at 2 rupees kg, bangladesh has vulnerable group program-35kg atta per month
@@raindrop5025 don't spit your lie . you dumb , non-observer . everyone know the situation of India . hey I know you never worked in any corporate and neither tried to face the reality of oppressed, starved ,uneducated people in India . In spite of that spitting all the lie those you got from WhatsApp university. 80 crores what a joke man. Go and check our poverty rate and education as well . grow up and face reality , actually Pakistan is not going into stone age . guys like you taking our India into stone age by spreading the false narrative those who don't know.
What happened here was Shehzad was not totally willing to push her to answer the questions directly. As an example he asked if the minorities were allowed to opt out of Islamiyat based on the 2006 curriculum (which effectively will not be possible now) and she totally skipped that and he let her skirt around. She did this throughout and it made her seem far more justified more than she actually was. I do understand his side too - if he pushed back too much, I'm sure it'd not be ideal for the future of his podcast.
The curriculum should be towards an upgrade not a degrade. Lack of exposure to English in early classes will produce a nation which will have to struggle in higher classes and Pakistan will lose its only edge, ie fluency, in the language of technology, science, IT, and internet. How can you teach something in Urdu for which there are no Urdu words ? And does anyone one know the predicament of the non English speaking countries of today like EU and Japan ? They are in deep trouble and have opened visas and outsourcing to the English world, because they have no expertise in developing and running advanced softwares. Does India teach in Hindi ? We'd be repeating the same mistakes which Sir Syed stood up against, ie of Muslims not sending their kids to school before partition. Imran khan is here to totally destroy Pakistan.
ok then how south korea japan china are succeding english as a subject is great but science history mathematics computer should had to be understand in your mother toungue
20:18 Society may overall radicalization jo howi hy who NC KE waja say nahe howi per Dr. Chughtai howi tau woh curiculam or buhat sari cheesain ke waja say howi hy
you have the example of FBISE's initiative of SLOs or curriculum based assessments cant you see? Now just we need to implement new syllabus according to today's world requirements of 2023 so students can be graded on the basis of that syllabus instead of 2006 from Grade 6th till 12th. Sow the seed now and you'll reap the fruit in the later years.
i think it would be better to ask about snc from the education minister. she clearly stated parliamentry matters are not under her jurisdiction (laws, acts, nocs). the majority parliament is responsible for these things, not her. She is only doing her job of what she is told by the government. the prime minister should be responsible for answering these things, if he ever comes down from his high horse.
No doubt the education system in India sucks as well but never have I heard (yet) about backlash from parents for teaching the principles of buddha and mahavira (Jainism) I was taught about Jainism and buddhism ( and later Sikhism) in class 9th by a Christian and a Muslim ( interesting story about this muslim teacher, she's was one of the finest historian teaching in my school, a good background and mad level English spoken skills, she resigned after getting a couple of roles in theaters and later she was very politically active as well which landed her in trouble, she openly spoke against the current regime, which is obviously fine, during protest of 2019 she was jailed and was treated brutally by the police and now she's joined some local party and will contest local election as well, she even has a couple of interviews on the wire channel, she's a fighter) teacher in pluralistic batch of 350+ students.
@@71espn You have no knowledge about pluralism. We are taught historical events of India. Islam and Christianity didn't originate in India. We aren't taught about Hinduism as well. What's your point you fool? We are taught Jainism and Buddhism and Sikhism because they originated in India and make some very important historical events of India. We are taught these religion as our history and there's no other agenda unlike the other country. We are taught when and where and how Christianity originated in India and likewise we're taught about the start of Islam in India. It's like I said, you people have no knowledge what pluralism means... All the dharmik religion originated in these lands. Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism is our history. We're taught our history. Simple. Edit: I saw your playlist, you're from India. Yet you're complaining about the history taught? You know how filtered history is already taught to us.
Shazad was out of his depth in this conversation and had done little research apart from various snippets he had heard here or there...Dr Mariums patience as a professional was exemplary and clarified many aspects of the SNC...
Completely agree - the sarcastic attitude and tweeter-esque arguments towards her incredibly well thought-out answers was a bit annoying to watch. Kudos to her patience.
The news about inspectors checking teaching/learning of Koran in schools and several Principals being punished for below par performance on this count should be a disconcerting reality for all right thinking people if it has actually happened. By the way, 49% of German children today, inspite of a sustained program in objective teaching of history, have no idea about what Auschwitz is all about ( ref DW documentary on the issue just before the last summer vacation).
Not necessarily, maybe , i cannot say , you can't say that . Only dodging the questions . Well she is a true govt. Employee 👌 aced at dodging and manipulating talk always in her favour. 😂
you have the example of FBISE's initiative of SLOs or curriculum based assessments cant you see? Now just we need to implement new syllabus according to today's world requirements of 2023 so students can be graded on the basis of that syllabus instead of 2006 from Grade 6th till 12th. Sow the seed now and you'll reap the fruit in the later years
Kudos to Dr Chugtai but difficult moment at 1:35:40; she believes rote learning is not good but then sides with that under facetious argument of working with Govt. and Law of Land. Madam why can you not keep Islam out of SNC and leave it to parents who, like you said would hire a Kari or trust a Moulavi to teach the kids. Shall help you avoid issues like which version to include in syllabus and what would minorities think of that. Essentially the problem of Pakistan is not paucity of religion but excess of it and this has interfered with building a scientific temperament and development of a critical thinking. Surely fools walk in where angels fear to tread !
i will not say that snc is great and brilliant but one thing had to say that givong credit to imran khan that first democratic govt that had introduced Snc in pakistan pakistan meee Snc wesee bheee dictators nee present kiyee thee zia ul haq or musharraf
She is slippery like an eel. Poor boy does not have the homework to nail her for continuing creating drones manufacturing and taking a step backwards rather progressing.
31:58 wait, what?!! I had no idea there was State sponsored hatred since decades in Pakistan and that too it was taught to kids. For a second forget about post 2014 regime (which is BTW debatable about their ideology and loads of fake news has been there- I'm not pro BJP btw) There was never (still isn't)state sponsored hatred for any group taught to students.
Have not seen such content in CBSE but there are some explicit anti muslim content in several state board (or state board approved) textbooks in India.
@@sleepingforever9122 don't lie. Just because BJP is a bigot, doesn't mean you stop propgating lies about Indian Curriculum. Not a Single Board has anything against any religion. I swear by God
@@ssah7594 2 or 3 anti muslim statements in some state board book does not make indian curriculum anti muslim as a whole. There are instances where mistakes happen by those who approve the textbooks. The Problem I am trying to point out here is that when we see something bad about pakistan we just assume it as mainstream but when we see something bad about India we take it as a fringe or a specific case. For example if muslim fanatics in Pakistan attack some temple in a particular place in sindh, we will say that "temples are being destroyed in pakistan". But if some mosque is vandalised by hindutva groups in some village in gorakhpur district of UP , we will say "particular mosque was attacked in gorakhpur by extremists".
An overwhelming number of Pakistanis did not have enough to eat, are you sure you want to start talking about National Curriculum? Nusrat Rizvi, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Thanks Shehzad for conducting another rich conversation and let your guest have her mic and the stage. This conversation was desperately needed. Unfortunately, a solid sense of reality on this subject was missing from her end - her explanations were great in theory but far from ground realities and lived experiences. There was no willingness or intent to solve the problem of access to begin with and perhaps it might well be incompatible with the desired end this Govn. is attempting to achieve. I was disappointed at her response of "we are still figuring it out" about minority students in class room setting. @1:32:00 onwards despite education, she dumbs it down to 'aisey he hai' - it doesn't come in any starker form than this.
I came here to say this and I'm glad you've highlighted this. Great interview by Shehzad especially how he phrased the questions so appropriately but Dr Chughtai's answers were a bit lacklustre and kind of a cop-out, given her training and background.
@@Sarah_0112 It was difficult to reconcile her claims if one browses through SNC textbooks. We remain on the path to nowhere, with no tools to face the challenges ahead......Great PR from her end though.
I had little understanding of the SNC, but glad that I watched this podcast, educating myself. Dr. Mariam Chughtai deserves a salute for offering her views so elaborately, logically, and patiently that people like me, 70+ seniors, were able to absorb its essentials, and indeed the need for such an undertaking. Failure is very much a part of life, but not trying something is almost criminal. Wish you the best for its success, Dr. Maryam.
I am also happy to learn that our history of wars, especially the 1971 war, will be presented more objectively, which will be a very challenging task, though. I also hope that we change our language soon enough for respecting the other religions from a humble لحاظ to realigning it as deserved for our own religion.
Like always, it was good to watch the host fight the devil's battle aggressively and spiritedly with incisive questions. ❤️
What a deep answers from Dr. Maryam with a surface type questions from the podcaster. Salute to Dr. Sahiba.
Summing it up " Skepticism changes in face of facts but paranoia does not" - Dr Mariam
The interviewer was totally clueless in front of astute and articulate Dr Mariam Chughtai. Totally debased all propaganda from the left against SNC. Great communication. Loved it!
Disappointed with the interview. The main topic should be Single National Curriculum and its benefits, problems and impacts discussed separately than problems in the Pakistani education system and educational laws in Pakistan Constitution. Lots of questions have been answered by the guest before in different interviews are repeated here.
The main focus of discussion was how this system will impact elite educational institutions (which is not a problem as many of big primary textbooks publications in Pakistan like Oxford, Gohar, Afaq etc have got NOC for most of their titles) or madrassas rather than is it doing anything to upgrade the public and less expensive private schools?
If we research the school-going children in Pakistan, 90% of children go to public or private schools which have fees from Rs 500 to Rs 2500 per month.
Hats Off to Her for such a great response to his sarcastic questions.
I can not say this enough times. Shehzad you are greattt at what you do. I do not have a lot of exposure, par jitnay logon ko host kartay , interview laitay suna hai mene aj tak, you are the best. You do a thorough homework, you know what your guest has been up to, what have they said, done, tweeted, written, what other opinions are there on that topic. You work on the topic exceptionally well, put counter-opinions that make the guest brainstorm and give more insights. It feels like the whole interviews goes in your head before the actual one, you know what they'll say and how you ll respond and what they'll say in response to your response. Still you actually listen what they have to say although you already know what they are going to say and present a counter-argument. May be it is the law background that makes it so well. May be it is the unhealthy level of empathy that pays off here. You, Shehzad, make these podcasts interesting, interesting enough that a person like me (who scrolls a 15 sec tiktok after 3 seconds) ends up listening to hours of your content and that too multiple times. You are respectful towards people you disagree with, yet you say what you stand for. When i am amazed by some podcast I go to the youtube page of the guest, or other talks given by your guest, it is never the same, never. It is always you who brings out the best in people. You help them, push them into saying what they think in a much better way. Great job man. Allah ta'ala ap k liay dunia aur akhirat main aasani karay.
@@ThePakistanExperience la haula wala quwwat, un sahab ka to naam bhi na lo ap apnay comparison main, koi muqabala hi nahi hai.
Main to ap ka muqabala un logon sai kar rahi thi jo bazahir suljhay huay lagtay hain, parhay likhay hain, guftgu achay sai kar laitay hain. Wo long form podacst ka format to adopt kar laitay hain, but they seem to severly lack in home work, jesay ap har tarah k topic pai puri jaan laga k mehnat kar k atay ho. Muje baki podcasts pheeki pheeki, superficial si lagti hain. Lagta hai banday bus agaya hai guest sai baat karnay, wahin apnay us banday pai alag research ki hoti hai aur us topic pai alag. Even your pauses seem planned. Shaid law main case present karna sikhatay hain is liay.
Empaths can read people as well, i think. They can sense where the other person is coming from, pick up on very minute cues in body language and expressions. That helps you in taking the conversation deeper and getting more insights than others. I have seen people abuse empathy as well, making the guest shed a tear or two but that seems so fake and done-for-views that i feel bad for the guest who let their gaurd down.
@@ThePakistanExperience I disagree with you as well or i guess my core beliefs get shaken and i feel insecure 😅
But i really respect you for what you do and excelling at it.
@@ThePakistanExperience haha exactly 💯 😆
"Skepticism can change in the face of facts, paranoia cannot". This quote of Dr. completely summarizes your conduct in taking the interview. Give me one timestamp when you actually conceded your point acknowledging the answer before throwing the next red herring.
i dont think there were any red herrings, just questions asked from the wrong person (you cant get the prime minister on the show though). she had no choice but to either not answer them or divert them to something that is under her jurisdiction.
@@ThePakistanExperience "Who" means who Shehzad Bhai ? Does it mean your good self or those against SNC ?
Always remember that an individual is just a fly on the wall in the " history " of human kind and your adaptation of superior posture against such an enlightened personality does not do any good to your podcast or your image as an unbiased/open-minded interviewer as apparent from several other podcasts watched by me. Is it because the present guest is an accomplished woman and you cannot overcome your male chauvinistic urges to bash everything she says while you drool over second rate male personalities appearing in your podcasts ?
I hope you will take this criticism positively and become a better person. As regards "let history vindicate" comment, Madame Chugtai will definitely occupy a deserved spot for her labours as an accomplished educationist who tried to revolutionize educational system in Pakistan with SNC in the face strong opposition.
One of most important issue is curriculum of Pakistan Studies. It needs sincere and serious review. The basics need to be revised.
Good job Dr Mariam
Education must be secular.
Shehzad Bhai, it was agreat podcast and a perfect person to ask such questions from. I really appreciate the hard questions u asked bx that basically help in revealing the actual thruth in the age of misinformation and disinformation. I really was expecting you to question about the need for the inclusion of comprehensive sexuality education in Pakistan's national curriculum bx I beleive and I have researched on it that its absence is one of the basic reasons behind the catalysing gender hate and gender crimes in Pakistan and its inclusion can really help in eradicating this evil from our society.
I am doing my PhD in the curriculum of Pakistan Studies and I feel so frustrated on the negligence this discipline faced since its inception.
@@ThePakistanExperience its more about negligence than deliberate attempt. The attempt to islamize the curriculum adversely affected the real spirit of this discipline
She’s so authoritative.
She is one eyed ... In the crowd of blind.. So arrogance is unmistakable
Hello Shahzad,
I wish you had called Muzzamil to the show too 🤔
@@ThePakistanExperience true,lekin maza aata 🤭
One hour in and I am more sympathetic with Dr.Chugtai now.
Dear Shahzad, please invite Amitav Ghosh on your podcast. He is a fantastic author and has written on climate change and colonialism which are two of your favorite topics.
Thats not true. Psychedelics and my ex are my two favourite topics 😅😅😅
@@ShehzadGhias Yeh bhi hai... Wese why are you so obsessed with Psychedelics?
@@mohdbilalabbasi not obsessed at all. Just like talking about the possibilities. I make it sound like I do them alot. I don't even smoke up, I just like talking about this stuffm
English, urdu and GK books are full of Islam. She is ambiguous and hedging the questions.
This is one of your best interviews Mr Shehzad. Very well executed.
Very impressed by Mariam Chughtai’s conversation. She seems a very intelligent, open minded and aware person.
On one hand, I saw someone who's knee deep in the mess that Pakistan state and it's constitution is and trying to move forward one step at a time without burning it all down. On the other hand I see a nihilist.
بہت گہری بات کی میم
Thank you Shehzad🙏💙
Finally the most awaited podcast !! ❤️
Thanks Shehzad sir 😍😍
Baat ghumany me mahir hen Dr. Sahiba. All of those basic questions raised by Prof Hoodbhoy still stand.
It's funny how she tried to save the PM ass and her job by saying "amar bil maroof wa nahi aninal munkir"
nailed it , great job boss
She did not answer any of the tough questions. She just alluded to the SNC actually secularising the education system but slowly. Which doesn’t seem to be the case when you look at the arguments presented against SNC. There was no answer to why schools require NOCs on the presence of laws either. I am as in the dark as I was before watching this interview. No enlightenment here old chap
Sad that you feel this way. Seems like you are the only one or are among the few as most comments including myself found it very enlightening. The whole issue of NOC was repeatedly addressed. It's not her requirement. It's up to the provincial governments.
Mariam chughtai very intelligent and she knows what shez doing and it's not that straight forward as we all know it's not gonna happen over night it will take generations but hopefully we will see some kind of improvement in our life time
Very amazing analysis 👍👍Thank you real journalist 👍👍May your tribe increase 🥰🥰
This was a very good podcast. Thanks shahzad for arranging this and I am impressed that Dr Mariam came to the podcast too. I feel like I know way more about SNC than earlier. I also liked when she said that when was the last time we had this kind of passionate discussion around education in Pakistan. I feel if this will make madrassahs better, that would be great as I have very closely seen a madrassahs only focusing on making kids "Hafiz e Quran" and not teaching them anything until they 12 or 13. I also felt shahzad that you were dismissive at few places, especially around quran kiun padhaya jaraha hai n all but bhai our country is called "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" to woh to hoga na and she is not incharge of all of that. So, I am a little more hopeful now.
Thanks Fahad. I never said "Quran kyon parhaya ja raha hay", I asked her if she is against rote learning, why make kids read in Arabic from 1st to 5th grade, where they won't even understand it, and she said it is the law, and she has nothing to do with it.
we should timestamp the moments where Shehzad is trying to hold his laughter.
Getting some huge Battle vibes before watching this
@@ThePakistanExperience Yeah I think truly getting both sides of the story will distinguish you from the rest of the political commentators in Pak
I forgot to send in my questions but glad to see some one actually asking the tough questions and following up instead of nodding along.
Dr mariam answered all the questions but i felt that she was talking that she had a limited domain and tried to do things within that...rest doesn't matter...
that may be satisfied her but did not satisfy us...
But anyways Shahzad ... thanks for all this effort...
She is only the director of the national curriculum board with limited power. Blaming all things wrong in Pakistan education system on her, and is wrong.
The lack of research in this interview is so frustrating.
@@sz54321 i heard her for the very first time...
But i think that every person in this country on any post says, he or she has limited power...like decision making seems to be decentralised not centralized..
I believe in decentralization in management.. but i don't understand here if every one one has limited power and can't make things better then who will make them better...
Like here so many parties are involved in making SNC .fedral government has its input.. she has her in put.. religious input with many sectors is there...provinces have their input... but still there are many things with question mark... so confusing ...
i had a question for her regarding the biology text of SNC ... but i did not get the answer...
SNC-taking pakistan from current medieval age to stone age, imagine the future labbaikis after SNC
@@ThePakistanExperience sir IK comparing mangai with Bangladesh and India, india has PMGKAY program 80 crores get atta at 2 rupees kg, bangladesh has vulnerable group program-35kg atta per month
@@raindrop5025 don't spit your lie . you dumb , non-observer . everyone know the situation of India . hey I know you never worked in any corporate and neither tried to face the reality of oppressed, starved ,uneducated people in India . In spite of that spitting all the lie those you got from WhatsApp university. 80 crores what a joke man. Go and check our poverty rate and education as well . grow up and face reality , actually Pakistan is not going into stone age . guys like you taking our India into stone age by spreading the false narrative those who don't know.
@@mdarifalam9401 😂
What happened here was Shehzad was not totally willing to push her to answer the questions directly. As an example he asked if the minorities were allowed to opt out of Islamiyat based on the 2006 curriculum (which effectively will not be possible now) and she totally skipped that and he let her skirt around. She did this throughout and it made her seem far more justified more than she actually was. I do understand his side too - if he pushed back too much, I'm sure it'd not be ideal for the future of his podcast.
Dr sahiba ny SNC ki books parhi Hain...or emandaari sy batainbky Kiya Woh apny bachun KO yeah books parhain gi....
Unki bacche US mein jakar padhenge! Pakistani bache madrassa mein
The curriculum should be towards an upgrade not a degrade. Lack of exposure to English in early classes will produce a nation which will have to struggle in higher classes and Pakistan will lose its only edge, ie fluency, in the language of technology, science, IT, and internet.
How can you teach something in Urdu for which there are no Urdu words ?
And does anyone one know the predicament of the non English
speaking countries of today like EU and Japan ? They are in deep trouble and have opened visas and outsourcing to the English world, because they have no expertise in developing and running advanced softwares.
Does India teach in Hindi ?
We'd be repeating the same mistakes which Sir Syed stood up against, ie of Muslims not sending their kids to school before partition.
Imran khan is here to totally destroy Pakistan.
ok then how south korea japan china are succeding english as a subject is great but science history mathematics computer should had to be understand in your mother toungue
Long wait is finally overrt
1:20 he said absolutely right she talked abt her American education to tell indirectly to tell about conversion of minorities
20:18 Society may overall radicalization jo howi hy who NC KE waja say nahe howi per Dr. Chughtai howi tau woh curiculam or buhat sari cheesain ke waja say howi hy
you have the example of FBISE's initiative of SLOs or curriculum based assessments cant you see? Now just we need to implement new syllabus according to today's world requirements of 2023 so students can be graded on the basis of that syllabus instead of 2006 from Grade 6th till 12th. Sow the seed now and you'll reap the fruit in the later years.
i think it would be better to ask about snc from the education minister. she clearly stated parliamentry matters are not under her jurisdiction (laws, acts, nocs). the majority parliament is responsible for these things, not her. She is only doing her job of what she is told by the government. the prime minister should be responsible for answering these things, if he ever comes down from his high horse.
No doubt the education system in India sucks as well but never have I heard (yet) about backlash from parents for teaching the principles of buddha and mahavira (Jainism)
I was taught about Jainism and buddhism ( and later Sikhism) in class 9th by a Christian and a Muslim ( interesting story about this muslim teacher, she's was one of the finest historian teaching in my school, a good background and mad level English spoken skills, she resigned after getting a couple of roles in theaters and later she was very politically active as well which landed her in trouble, she openly spoke against the current regime, which is obviously fine, during protest of 2019 she was jailed and was treated brutally by the police and now she's joined some local party and will contest local election as well, she even has a couple of interviews on the wire channel, she's a fighter)
teacher in pluralistic batch of 350+ students.
You not being taught Islam aur Christianity that is why no protest
@@71espn You have no knowledge about pluralism. We are taught historical events of India. Islam and Christianity didn't originate in India.
We aren't taught about Hinduism as well.
What's your point you fool?
We are taught Jainism and Buddhism and Sikhism because they originated in India and make some very important historical events of India. We are taught these religion as our history and there's no other agenda unlike the other country.
We are taught when and where and how Christianity originated in India and likewise we're taught about the start of Islam in India.
It's like I said, you people have no knowledge what pluralism means...
All the dharmik religion originated in these lands. Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism is our history. We're taught our history. Simple.
Edit: I saw your playlist, you're from India. Yet you're complaining about the history taught? You know how filtered history is already taught to us.
U teach religion n madrasas not in schools...thts why pak education is so backward...teach science not religion
All right was waiting for this
@@ThePakistanExperience
Godspeed Shehzad sir!
How much of realism is in the curriculum? You can easily read between the lines and make out...
She herself not wearing the hijab and telling girls to wear hijab in the textbooks. She should also wear hijab.
Shazad was out of his depth in this conversation and had done little research apart from various snippets he had heard here or there...Dr Mariums patience as a professional was exemplary and clarified many aspects of the SNC...
Completely agree - the sarcastic attitude and tweeter-esque arguments towards her incredibly well thought-out answers was a bit annoying to watch. Kudos to her patience.
31:58 what's wrong in that? Aren't we the worst of all the creations? Then isn't it natural for us to backstab the believers?
She clarified every aspect of this policy comprehensively.
It is not even a discussion here about why the state is funding religious education in the first place. Wow
For that you need to read the preamble of pakistan constitution, they also teach islam in history and geography books
Did he say happy Diwali? 😱
The news about inspectors checking teaching/learning of Koran in schools and several Principals being punished for below par performance on this count should be a disconcerting reality for all right thinking people if it has actually happened. By the way, 49% of German children today, inspite of a sustained program in objective teaching of history, have no idea about what Auschwitz is all about ( ref DW documentary on the issue just before the last summer vacation).
Not necessarily, maybe , i cannot say , you can't say that . Only dodging the questions .
Well she is a true govt. Employee 👌 aced at dodging and manipulating talk always in her favour. 😂
you have the example of FBISE's initiative of SLOs or curriculum based assessments cant you see? Now just we need to implement new syllabus according to today's world requirements of 2023 so students can be graded on the basis of that syllabus instead of 2006 from Grade 6th till 12th. Sow the seed now and you'll reap the fruit in the later years
How does SNC help the 3 crore Out of school children right now?
Kudos to Dr Chugtai but difficult moment at 1:35:40; she believes rote learning is not good but then sides with that under facetious argument of working with Govt. and Law of Land. Madam why can you not keep Islam out of SNC and leave it to parents who, like you said would hire a Kari or trust a Moulavi to teach the kids. Shall help you avoid issues like which version to include in syllabus and what would minorities think of that. Essentially the problem of Pakistan is not paucity of religion but excess of it and this has interfered with building a scientific temperament and development of a critical thinking. Surely fools walk in where angels fear to tread !
❤️
i will not say that snc is great and brilliant but one thing had to say that givong credit to imran khan that first democratic govt that had introduced Snc in pakistan pakistan meee Snc wesee bheee dictators nee present kiyee thee zia ul haq or musharraf
Shahzad was arrogant.
Is her own grand kids are studying in Pakistan?
Defending SNC coz she is getting money off it! Period!
لاحاصل مردہ مباحث سے طلبا کی ذہنی صلاحیتوں کو ضاٸع کرنا اور ضروری جدید علوم سے بے توجہی
She is slippery like an eel. Poor boy does not have the homework to nail her for continuing creating drones manufacturing and taking a step backwards rather progressing.
Kon say interns? Kon see internship?
1:21:00 college university vs school having religion is totally different ball game.. So don't fool people
she has nothing to say at several times and responds with sarcasm
Iss naye curriculum history hai ya abhi bhi Pakistan studies Hai.
is Islam taught in schools in Pakistan ?
Yup
31:58 wait, what?!!
I had no idea there was State sponsored hatred since decades in Pakistan and that too it was taught to kids.
For a second forget about post 2014 regime (which is BTW debatable about their ideology and loads of fake news has been there- I'm not pro BJP btw)
There was never (still isn't)state sponsored hatred for any group taught to students.
Have not seen such content in CBSE but there are some explicit anti muslim content in several state board (or state board approved) textbooks in India.
@@sleepingforever9122 that's a lie and you know it.
@@sleepingforever9122 don't lie. Just because BJP is a bigot, doesn't mean you stop propgating lies about Indian Curriculum. Not a Single Board has anything against any religion. I swear by God
@@ssah7594 Damn right
@@ssah7594 2 or 3 anti muslim statements in some state board book does not make indian curriculum anti muslim as a whole. There are instances where mistakes happen by those who approve the textbooks. The Problem I am trying to point out here is that when we see something bad about pakistan we just assume it as mainstream but when we see something bad about India we take it as a fringe or a specific case. For example if muslim fanatics in Pakistan attack some temple in a particular place in sindh, we will say that "temples are being destroyed in pakistan". But if some mosque is vandalised by hindutva groups in some village in gorakhpur district of UP , we will say "particular mosque was attacked in gorakhpur by extremists".
She looks like any arrogant senior professor in India.
Yeh aurat toh defend karegi hiii. Question kyu karna?
hindus-good questions shehzad
Muslims- good answers dr sahiba.
Fauji ko gaali kaun de raha hai - I think Mariyam Chughtai’s approach is not very smart - coz mention the facts and some of those facts are bitter -
What's anti state content
Define anti state ?
Kindly ap apny guests ko bolny dea kro khud zara control kia kro
Third Class Textbooks
عربی میں بھی تو رٹہ ہی لگانا ہے۔ میرے خیال میں ترکوں اور عربوں کی تاریخ بھی ڈال دو سلیبس میں۔
PTI = Good looking jamat e harami
education has been overshadowed by strengthening rota system early stage logic usage very essential for education
An overwhelming number of Pakistanis did not have enough to eat, are you sure you want to start talking about National Curriculum?
Nusrat Rizvi, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Thanks Shehzad for conducting another rich conversation and let your guest have her mic and the stage. This conversation was desperately needed. Unfortunately, a solid sense of reality on this subject was missing from her end - her explanations were great in theory but far from ground realities and lived experiences. There was no willingness or intent to solve the problem of access to begin with and perhaps it might well be incompatible with the desired end this Govn. is attempting to achieve. I was disappointed at her response of "we are still figuring it out" about minority students in class room setting.
@1:32:00 onwards despite education, she dumbs it down to 'aisey he hai' - it doesn't come in any starker form than this.
I came here to say this and I'm glad you've highlighted this. Great interview by Shehzad especially how he phrased the questions so appropriately but Dr Chughtai's answers were a bit lacklustre and kind of a cop-out, given her training and background.
@@Sarah_0112 It was difficult to reconcile her claims if one browses through SNC textbooks. We remain on the path to nowhere, with no tools to face the challenges ahead......Great PR from her end though.