*THESE TWO* got so many things wrong about this film. It seems like they're dredging up memories from a viewing 30 years ago, and making assumptions based on that. And Tarantino making fun of Michael Mann cinematic cliches is rich. Every Tarantino film is one long repeat of his directing and writing cliches.
Had to laugh at his boast that he delivered what the keep failed to with his childish finale in Inglorious Bs. A film that feels more uneven than a troubled production like The Keep!
Yes Michael Mann was caught between technology of the time and the constant pressure of exhibitors and Studios to shorten the film to 70 -80 minute run time
Tarantino is way off in his assessment of the film, especially regarding Ian Mckellan's performance. No question that the film has its problems from the editing and re-editing, but it seems like his review is less about the merits of the film and more about him taking every opportunity crack a joke using often obscure cinema references. It gets old after the first ten minutes. (For those who haven't read the novel: Glaeken built the Keep centuries ago to imprison Molasar. The two are ancient enemies. Hence the connection with the talisman, which all the "crosses" are an image of, which prevented Molasar from leaving the Keep as well as preventing him from gaining his full strength. That is why Glaeken was alerted to his release. The priest brought Cuza, an expert on ancient Slavic languages, as a cover for getting Cuza and his daughter out of the concentration camp and to smuggle them out of Europe.)
Thanks for the background, i will have to read this book. The best story i heard for the Giza pyramid is that it was a KEEP for Marduk, i wonder what really inspired the source material?
I loved Jurgen Prochnow's Woermann character, because he's not black and white "bad nazi". He's nuanced. He is indeed down with the German cause, and looks forward to being on the winning side of history, but he's not cruel nor does he treat jews or the villagers as disposable animals.
Captain Woerman played by Jurgen Prochnow was a Wermacht officer. Many Wermacht officers saw themselves as the true/honourable soldiers and often despised the SS and their methods. Major Kämpfer is SS, not Gestapo. This forms a major part of the conflict between Kämpfer and Woerman. The film is a mess for sure but it’s a glorious, dreamlike mess. Worth watching just for the stacked cast and the mad soundtrack.
@@jarls5890 Huhh, man...that would be a miracle! The film would explode with atmosphere! I don't care if it would be completely nonsensical, I would watch it for sure! 🥳😃
Tangerine Dreams music was not entirely a score written for the film, about 60% was existing album material by them, such as Logos and Rubycon, the ending track is an instrumental version of "The snowman" (as originally sung by Alled Jones) to represent the white snow like effect from the Talisman.
They unfortunately took out all the scenes that strongly hint at the two of them being proto vampires. They even trimmed off the ending where Glaeken is found alive in the bowels of the Keep, now mortal., as is shown by him now having a reflection when he looks into a pool of water.
23:22 he backpedaled there, but he better have been thinking of _Last of the Mohicans_ because when he said Mann _only_ works when dealing with the 20th century, he is so wrong and that film is testament to his error.
The First book i read as a teen that I LOVED!! f Paul Wilson made some phenomenal novels. The Keep movie was a lot of Fun to Watch and I had no idea the movie came out until I saw it on HBO one day
The other novels in the series are pretty good formte most part but the first remains the best of the bunch. Rasalom is at his best in the first novel.
Quentin struggles with material that isn’t based in a reality. Yes I know the vampire thing with Clooney, but he was only acting in that and as a serial killer. The keep is a fairytale. Not flawless, but alot of its issues are related to studio meddling. I love it!
There isn't one, lol. Mann and Paramount hate the movie to this day, nobody gunna pay for it. Is there even a 'restored' cut available? Those 6 extra seconds would be a start.
@@jack-a-lopium ~ Apparently Mann was approached to do a Special Edition DVD in 2004, but they couldn't find the cut footage, so cancelled the release.
@@CastlesForEyes Interesting. And yeah, I know there is no extra footage. If you didn't know what I meant by 'restored' cut, I mean that there literally is 19 seconds (not 6 as i said) removed from every copy on streaming channels. It was removed in a cut which was supposed to make the film more understandable... it has the opposite effect. SWIM actually has those 19 seconds, so I know that they exist. I'd love a restored version, as I already have the butchered version from Amazon Prime.
So we have Inglorious Bastards because Tarintino misunderstood Molasar was manipulating Kuza? Probably just the impetus for the idea but it's strange that he thought that was even on the table.
These guys really don't know what they're talking about. They obviously do not know that this based on a very good book. This movie does have issues. These guys are just wrong. WWII was in the 20th century. Mayfair Games made a rpg module not a board game.
I could not help feel the Monster was more of a Anti Villain yes he was evil, But the way he rescues the girl , and the promises to destroy the people hurting his own people, The Cures the Father, kind of made me want to feel, he was not totally evil.
I really only watched The Keep because it was directed by Michael Mann and featured Tangerine Dream, plus it had a pretty wild synopsis involving WWII crossed with gothic horror. The copy of The Keep I have is really grainy and grungy looking and the sound quality is not great either which always hurts my enjoyment, but I'm not sure if it's just my copy that looks this way. I really like the weird horror bits of the movie, especially where the ancient monster/ghost dude shows up with the crazy red lights coming out of his eyes/mouth, also Gabriel Byrne is great as an SS officer, but some of the parts with Robert Prosky (who was awesome in Thief) and Ian McKellen are really badly acted and kind of boring. It's just a very strange movie that got me wanting to read the book which I've heard is a million times better.
@@yawns3004 if we all agree Hubris has a negative connotation, then why would I mean it in a positive way? In case I didn't state it clear the first time: Tarantino is so full of hubris
I saw “The Keep” back in 1985 on VHS and enjoyed it. Watched it again last night nearly 40 years later and didn’t find it nearly as satisfying. It starts out interestingly enough then looses its way. Micheal Mann’s directors cut was 120 minutes. Paramount’s version was only 96 minutes. That goes along way explaining the incoherent story line. Throw in the production nightmares and budget cuts and it’s a credit to Mann that “The Keep” is even remotely entertaining let alone even watchable.
The bad guy, is the devil, the influence of evil, which, if not stopped, will pure out onto the earth. That is why the village is the first place, thats starts to lose it, and they begin to turn on each other.
"...his name is "Glaeken", which in German implies a clock-like regularity." German (me!) going: "Wuuut?" I mean, sure - it could be derived from "Glocken", which means "bells", but I don't see where it would suggest a "clock-like regularity"....
I'd buy that statement if it was Brett Ratner compared to Mann instead of Quentin, who has clearly proved himself worthy as a top-notch genre filmmaker at a high level.
@@kirkplissken8454 he's the American Uwe Boll. He makes deliberately cheesey movies with poor taste. The only difference is that people get high while watching his movies, so he gets better reviews.
@@jacobstaten2366 Both of your comments are so idiotic, implying you don't know the simplest things about the craft of movies to compare someone like this to Uwe Boll. Don't come commenting on TH-cam when you've had one too many.
@@jacobstaten2366 That's bizarre... why would you even follow his career or watch an interview if he was analogous to Uwe Boll, lol? Ozploitation, maybe... not Boll :D
I think rarely , very rarely. . it all came together with the Keep , not the least hands down most influencial on globe group as in Tangerine Dream doing a masterpiece soundtrack. . interesting Ho Wood disowned it . . not a dud note & the book it based on , not obvious in film , the one contained is a 'vampire' , cool in light of current affairs & resonates in a way perhaps not intended by brainwash CIA/Ho Wood
Calling a WWII German soldier "good Nazi" is like calling an American soldier "good Republican". The Nazis were just a political party who were in government, not the armed forces. The regular non-fanatical armed forces were the Wehrmacht, whilst the fanatical and brutal part of the armed forces (here played by Gabriel Byrne) were the Waffen-SS. The Gestapo were a plain clothed secret police, rarely put in the field or seen donning uniforms. When they did wear a uniform it would've been a regular field grey SS uniform, not a black Waffen-SS uniform with the flared collar as seen in the movie. Also, I have to point out that technically, the film's wrong by giving the Waffen-SS the black uniform, because that's their dress uniform, not their BDUs. Their BDUs consisted of either field grey or camouflage, depending on the environment. In those mountains they'd almost certainly be dressed in camouflage with ponchos.
To think these two had so much snark when talking about Britsh actors doing bad accents for Firefox. Listen to their bogus, stereotyped German voices in this podcast. Know yourselves, guys.
Shoulda put Molasar in Inglorious Basterds :D Always wanted a version of the story where the Golem is set free to destroy the N war machine. Merry Christmas :D
That scene ,where Molasar saves the girl,cures the father and promises to save and destroy the Nazis...Father is Like YES I WILL!!..I WAS LIKE YES!! this is going to be EPIC!!, we need. Remake of this ,done Right with exactly this happening !! NAZIS VS Giant Golem!
I don't think they really present Capt. Woermann as being down with the cause, moreso that he's a coward. He even says he would have been fighting the Franco facists had he gone to Spain like Dr. Cuza's son (who died there).
These guys haven't done any research, it's just spitballing comments made by others. Anything newly added is subjective and inaccurate. The only valid observation made is that there is a nice tilt shot. Everything else is recycled half-remembered observations by others. Poor
Captain Woerman played by Jurgen Prochnow was a Wermacht officer. Many Wermacht officers saw themselves as the true/honourable soldiers and often despised the SS and their methods. Major Kämpfer is SS, not Gestapo. This forms a major part of the conflict between Kämpfer and Woerman. The film is a mess for sure but it’s a glorious, dreamlike mess. Worth watching just for the stacked cast and the mad soundtrack.
Has anyone noticed, Scott Glens character has no reflection, he takes the mirror of the wall afterwards.
When Byrne finds all his men dead and disfigured, I legit got goosebumps
Yeah, the visuals of that scene are superbly done.
*THESE TWO* got so many things wrong about this film. It seems like they're dredging up memories from a viewing 30 years ago, and making assumptions based on that. And Tarantino making fun of Michael Mann cinematic cliches is rich. Every Tarantino film is one long repeat of his directing and writing cliches.
More like one long take of him copying/ ripping off more creative, original peoples ideas that grew into cliches
Had to laugh at his boast that he delivered what the keep failed to with his childish finale in Inglorious Bs. A film that feels more uneven than a troubled production like The Keep!
Having read the book you can tell how much was left on the cutting room floor. It really effects the good guys stories.
They can't in 1983 depict(technically) what the book say so this movie is a masterpiece on its own adaptation
Yes Michael Mann was caught between technology of the time and the constant pressure of exhibitors and Studios to shorten the film to 70 -80 minute run time
Tarantino is way off in his assessment of the film, especially regarding Ian Mckellan's performance. No question that the film has its problems from the editing and re-editing, but it seems like his review is less about the merits of the film and more about him taking every opportunity crack a joke using often obscure cinema references. It gets old after the first ten minutes.
(For those who haven't read the novel: Glaeken built the Keep centuries ago to imprison Molasar. The two are ancient enemies. Hence the connection with the talisman, which all the "crosses" are an image of, which prevented Molasar from leaving the Keep as well as preventing him from gaining his full strength. That is why Glaeken was alerted to his release. The priest brought Cuza, an expert on ancient Slavic languages, as a cover for getting Cuza and his daughter out of the concentration camp and to smuggle them out of Europe.)
Thanks for the background, i will have to read this book. The best story i heard for the Giza pyramid is that it was a KEEP for Marduk, i wonder what really inspired the source material?
All I took from this conversation is Tarantino is oblivious to the fact this film is based on a book.
Why should that matter? A film should work without needing to read the book.
I loved Jurgen Prochnow's Woermann character, because he's not black and white "bad nazi". He's nuanced. He is indeed down with the German cause, and looks forward to being on the winning side of history, but he's not cruel nor does he treat jews or the villagers as disposable animals.
"My courage was proven in battle, against soldiers who Shoot Back"
He also mentioned that he would have been in Spain fighting in the anti-fascist side in the Spanish Civil War prior to World WarII
TANGERINE DREAM.......there is NO substitute.
(watch SORCERER!)
Yes! And Near Dark. And Legend. And Risky Business.
th-cam.com/video/PpV2Uqr8_44/w-d-xo.htmlsi=l_8Yp4thc8fsHrPd
And The Soldier. Parts of that soundtrack was adapted from cues from Thief.
1984's Flashpoint, a moody conspiracy thriller with a Tangerine Dream soundtrack
Captain Woerman played by Jurgen Prochnow was a Wermacht officer. Many Wermacht officers saw themselves as the true/honourable soldiers and often despised the SS and their methods. Major Kämpfer is SS, not Gestapo. This forms a major part of the conflict between Kämpfer and Woerman.
The film is a mess for sure but it’s a glorious, dreamlike mess. Worth watching just for the stacked cast and the mad soundtrack.
It's a shame this will never get a proper director's cut, or even a cleaned up version of the version released.
Imagine a remake of this filme - done by Panos Cosmatos!
@@jarls5890 Huhh, man...that would be a miracle! The film would explode with atmosphere! I don't care if it would be completely nonsensical, I would watch it for sure! 🥳😃
Vinegar Syndrome just put out the 4K UHD today all cleaned up.
@@gterrymed Thank fucking god for Vinegar Syndrome. Putting in the work.
Tangerine Dreams music was not entirely a score written for the film, about 60% was existing album material by them, such as Logos and Rubycon, the ending track is an instrumental version of "The snowman" (as originally sung by Alled Jones) to represent the white snow like effect from the Talisman.
.... The book was VERY entertaining, and quite scary. A very ancient vampire, with a twist.
F. Paul Wilson actually wrote the original screenplay. They changed it so much he took his name off it. There is a remake coming.
They unfortunately took out all the scenes that strongly hint at the two of them being proto vampires. They even trimmed off the ending where Glaeken is found alive in the bowels of the Keep, now mortal., as is shown by him now having a reflection when he looks into a pool of water.
@@LurkingCrassZeromaybe so but the 80s had an overload of vampires and vampire offshoot movies
Great film
McKellen had originally come up with a much more realistic accent, then Mann asked him to use the American accent. McKellen said this in an interview
The EFX are like an R-rated Raiders of the Lost Ark. Read the novel, its TERRIFYING! YOU’VE GOTTA READ THAT BOOK.
He was ss not gestapo
I like The Keep.
I saw this movie at release I had just discovered Dungeons and Dragons and loved this movie back then.
Loved this movie, It was Wonderfully Strange.
The book explains all read it before watching it's a short novel you can do it in a couple of sessions it's a Vampiric story with a twist
Idk if id call it short heh.
23:22 he backpedaled there, but he better have been thinking of _Last of the Mohicans_ because when he said Mann _only_ works when dealing with the 20th century, he is so wrong and that film is testament to his error.
4K sold out in 2 days
That says it all.
I was a PRODUCTION ASSISTANT on 'BAND OF THE HAND' ..!
ps: I also wrote 'THE BANKER' (1989 - starring Robert Forster)
D.A.
The First book i read as a teen that I LOVED!! f Paul Wilson made some phenomenal novels. The Keep movie was a lot of Fun to Watch and I had no idea the movie came out until I saw it on HBO one day
I love Tarantino but I liked The Keep. I like many movies he dislikes. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I’m reading the book now
Tell us if it's good when you're done. I might read it myself.
@@warlockofwordschannel7901 of course it's good.
@@srb9 excellent news!
@@warlockofwordschannel7901 it's the first of a series. I love the Keep book but did not read the others.
The other novels in the series are pretty good formte most part but the first remains the best of the bunch. Rasalom is at his best in the first novel.
'Mann works best when he's dealing with the 20th century' Err. WW2 was in the 20th century ffs! Tarantino talks sense and shit in equal measure.
Quentin struggles with material that isn’t based in a reality. Yes I know the vampire thing with Clooney, but he was only acting in that and as a serial killer. The keep is a fairytale. Not flawless, but alot of its issues are related to studio meddling. I love it!
My dad could not stopping talking about Thief when i was a kid. I remember he went to go see The Keep and was so pissed off about how shit it was…lol.
I want to see the director’s cut.
Yeah, since I read the book I knew what was going on but the theatrical edit is a mess, I assume from studio interference.
Yes!!
There isn't one, lol. Mann and Paramount hate the movie to this day, nobody gunna pay for it.
Is there even a 'restored' cut available? Those 6 extra seconds would be a start.
@@jack-a-lopium ~ Apparently Mann was approached to do a Special Edition DVD in 2004, but they couldn't find the cut footage, so cancelled the release.
@@CastlesForEyes Interesting. And yeah, I know there is no extra footage.
If you didn't know what I meant by 'restored' cut, I mean that there literally is 19 seconds (not 6 as i said) removed from every copy on streaming channels.
It was removed in a cut which was supposed to make the film more understandable... it has the opposite effect.
SWIM actually has those 19 seconds, so I know that they exist.
I'd love a restored version, as I already have the butchered version from Amazon Prime.
So we have Inglorious Bastards because Tarintino misunderstood Molasar was manipulating Kuza? Probably just the impetus for the idea but it's strange that he thought that was even on the table.
it's obvious that Tarantino is stupid.
I loved that movie
It was inevitable Quentin Tarantino would be a legendary writer/director. Inevitable.
Romania was an ally of Germany in 1941, they were not occupied. But what can you do...
These guys really don't know what they're talking about. They obviously do not know that this based on a very good book. This movie does have issues. These guys are just wrong. WWII was in the 20th century. Mayfair Games made a rpg module not a board game.
I could not help feel the Monster was more of a Anti Villain yes he was evil, But the way he rescues the girl , and the promises to destroy the people hurting his own people, The Cures the Father, kind of made me want to feel, he was not totally evil.
Thought Tarantino would've been all over this flick. Yes it's a mess but it's an interesting film all the same and I'd watch this over Thief any day.
You'd watch The Keep before Thief any day? Lol The Keep is interesting, but sucked compared to Thief.
@@grizzlywhiskerThief is a good film, but not one I rush to revisit. Now The Keep is a mess but i it has that car wreck appeal about it.
I really only watched The Keep because it was directed by Michael Mann and featured Tangerine Dream, plus it had a pretty wild synopsis involving WWII crossed with gothic horror. The copy of The Keep I have is really grainy and grungy looking and the sound quality is not great either which always hurts my enjoyment, but I'm not sure if it's just my copy that looks this way. I really like the weird horror bits of the movie, especially where the ancient monster/ghost dude shows up with the crazy red lights coming out of his eyes/mouth, also Gabriel Byrne is great as an SS officer, but some of the parts with Robert Prosky (who was awesome in Thief) and Ian McKellen are really badly acted and kind of boring. It's just a very strange movie that got me wanting to read the book which I've heard is a million times better.
Tarantino is so full of hubris
Do you mean this in a positive way? Hubris has a negative connotation
@@yawns3004 if we all agree Hubris has a negative connotation, then why would I mean it in a positive way?
In case I didn't state it clear the first time: Tarantino is so full of hubris
I saw “The Keep” back in 1985 on VHS and enjoyed it. Watched it again last night nearly 40 years later and didn’t find it nearly as satisfying. It starts out interestingly enough then looses its way. Micheal Mann’s directors cut was 120 minutes. Paramount’s version was only 96 minutes. That goes along way explaining the incoherent story line. Throw in the production nightmares and budget cuts and it’s a credit to Mann that “The Keep” is even remotely entertaining let alone even watchable.
Quentin liked Joker 2
If only we could watch the directors cut!
fun movie
The bad guy, is the devil, the influence of evil, which, if not stopped, will pure out onto the earth. That is why the village is the first place, thats starts to lose it, and they begin to turn on each other.
"...his name is "Glaeken", which in German implies a clock-like regularity."
German (me!) going: "Wuuut?"
I mean, sure - it could be derived from "Glocken", which means "bells", but I don't see where it would suggest a "clock-like regularity"....
Hilarious! Listening to two bigmouths trying to talk over each other! Again.....HILARIOUS!
The book was better but I enjoyed the movie also
Always fun to listen to the OAK.
And the REGISTRATIOR
Quinten Tarantino discuss Michael Mann is like having Steven Segal discuss Bruce Lee.
I'd buy that statement if it was Brett Ratner compared to Mann instead of Quentin, who has clearly proved himself worthy as a top-notch genre filmmaker at a high level.
@@kirkplissken8454 he's the American Uwe Boll. He makes deliberately cheesey movies with poor taste. The only difference is that people get high while watching his movies, so he gets better reviews.
@@jacobstaten2366One of the dumbest comments I've ever read.
@@jacobstaten2366 Both of your comments are so idiotic, implying you don't know the simplest things about the craft of movies to compare someone like this to Uwe Boll. Don't come commenting on TH-cam when you've had one too many.
@@jacobstaten2366 That's bizarre... why would you even follow his career or watch an interview if he was analogous to Uwe Boll, lol?
Ozploitation, maybe... not Boll :D
I think rarely , very rarely. . it all came together with the Keep , not the least hands down most influencial on globe group as in Tangerine Dream doing a masterpiece soundtrack. . interesting Ho Wood disowned it . . not a dud note & the book it based on , not obvious in film , the one contained is a 'vampire' , cool in light of current affairs & resonates in a way perhaps not intended by brainwash CIA/Ho Wood
I juat re-watched this movie!!! I suppose thats why i got this recommendation.
Great Film...a little slow at times but Brilliant nonetheless ❤
A strange and beautiful fiasco.
Funny just watched this
better if you fast-forward through the interviewer
Calling a WWII German soldier "good Nazi" is like calling an American soldier "good Republican". The Nazis were just a political party who were in government, not the armed forces. The regular non-fanatical armed forces were the Wehrmacht, whilst the fanatical and brutal part of the armed forces (here played by Gabriel Byrne) were the Waffen-SS. The Gestapo were a plain clothed secret police, rarely put in the field or seen donning uniforms. When they did wear a uniform it would've been a regular field grey SS uniform, not a black Waffen-SS uniform with the flared collar as seen in the movie. Also, I have to point out that technically, the film's wrong by giving the Waffen-SS the black uniform, because that's their dress uniform, not their BDUs. Their BDUs consisted of either field grey or camouflage, depending on the environment. In those mountains they'd almost certainly be dressed in camouflage with ponchos.
They look like dont know nothing about the movie or the book.
To think these two had so much snark when talking about Britsh actors doing bad accents for Firefox. Listen to their bogus, stereotyped German voices in this podcast. Know yourselves, guys.
Whoever' got the Keep in VHS. Worth over $200😊
VHS $25 Amazon...
Shoulda put Molasar in Inglorious Basterds :D
Always wanted a version of the story where the Golem is set free to destroy the N war machine.
Merry Christmas :D
That scene ,where Molasar saves the girl,cures the father and promises to save and destroy the Nazis...Father is Like YES I WILL!!..I WAS LIKE YES!! this is going to be EPIC!!, we need. Remake of this ,done Right with exactly this happening !! NAZIS VS Giant Golem!
I did like the movie, but why the hell they didn't just stick to the book, which is FAR superior.....
I don't think they really present Capt. Woermann as being down with the cause, moreso that he's a coward. He even says he would have been fighting the Franco facists had he gone to Spain like Dr. Cuza's son (who died there).
The book is excellent. The movie is definitely dated.
These guys haven't done any research, it's just spitballing comments made by others. Anything newly added is subjective and inaccurate. The only valid observation made is that there is a nice tilt shot. Everything else is recycled half-remembered observations by others. Poor
He's talking about Michael Mann ripping off Sorcerer. The hypocrite. How many films has he ripped off!
He knows he does it and has talked about it.
I wish they would make a night world movie.. it's the last book in the series and raselom turns into a giant cockroach!!
the worlds most over rated director.
tried to watch it, turned it off
Tarrantino has a style, and everything else is shit.Half the time does not know what he is talking about. In this one he hates lighting.
Sorcerer was garbage.
Hahahahahaha
I liked it. Blood looks fake in a shooting scene.
Captain Woerman played by Jurgen Prochnow was a Wermacht officer. Many Wermacht officers saw themselves as the true/honourable soldiers and often despised the SS and their methods. Major Kämpfer is SS, not Gestapo. This forms a major part of the conflict between Kämpfer and Woerman.
The film is a mess for sure but it’s a glorious, dreamlike mess. Worth watching just for the stacked cast and the mad soundtrack.