I hope everyone who plays against Hellmuth asks him “did you fold?” in every hand he plays for the rest of his career, even when it’s obvious that he’s folded. He should never be allowed to live this down.
@@Martinchox Sounds like what I said. The announcer and a few people at the table thought he folded. I'm sure he didn't think he did. And I'm sure he wasn't trying to. But if you slide two cards across the betting line and it's not a fold, what would be the action that would make it a fold?
“It’s for his brand” argument needs to stop too. People defend him every time he does this. Botez, who is probably the nicest person at the table, is so happy she’s almost in tears, and Phil decided to berate this amateur for making the correct play so she can’t even enjoy her one moment. Just no defense for it. Also, at the highest stakes, especially against amateurs, the social aspect is so huge. Keep the recreationals in the game. You’ve got people here with $500,000 who don’t know what a range is, just trying to have fun, and Phil is actively trying to worsen their experience, leading to them getting out of the game. It’s like he doesn’t want to profit. He’s just awful at all aspects. They have to stop inviting him because even if spots like this generate views, they absolutely kill the game if amateurs watching this feel like this is how they’ll be treated.
@@fractal_mind562 ^^^ This. Phil continued to berate her for A LONG TIME after the hand was over. It was borderline verbal abuse. Fortunately, Botez has had to deal with worse idiots that Phil from the chess world. She's got a thick skin and can handle "Poker boy" (her words).
Man, you've completely missed the mark. These people a e youtube stars. You think they are upset over some drama?!? Their job is to create drama. I guarantee you every single person at that table would of been annoyed if he was sitting there being silent and respectful. There's a reason they picked Phil to be in this game... these people are youtubes version of reality tv stars. Getting mad at phil is like getting mad at what happened on keeping up with the kardashians. It's just like.. what did you expect was going to happen lol
Yeah, I don't think Botez was bothered by Phil one bit. They get trolled much worse online at their day jobs. Despite that though, I think Phil is a terrible representative for a community that wants to open itself to new blood. Not only does he have no table manners, he has zero understanding of the cash game. In that A8 vs A9 hand, he had to realize that he had no fold equity against the biggest stack on the table. He might be the greatest tournament poker player of all time, but dude needs to hit up some cash game training videos.
Watched this live and was embarrassed by how bad Phil made poker players look. I also wonder what fool organized this. PH is the worst poker ambassador. Put Phil Laak, Daniel, or Antonio in there. They keep the games light and fun. On another note, I was happy to see Andrea win. She didn't even have to sacrifice her Queen 😆
@@Burgerbeast101 they’re all content creators and this table was put together for a livestream, they (at least Ludwig was) were saying after that they loved having him there since him tilting was great content
@@philipbridler karma in the most of the west is a law of equivalent exchange applied to actions and their morality/context, and a corresponding reaction to equalise that transaction, so to speak. Apologies if its different in your culture
Hellmuth is a complete embarrassment of a poker player/ambassador. Imagine you are a fan of the content creators and this is the first time you are introduced to poker, and you have to watch the "best poker player in the world" mouth off at Alexandra Botez for calling 2bbs with A9. No wonder the state of poker is as it is, when the new people who are introduced to the game have to watch this joke of a poker player. Total embarrassment
Phil tossed his cards over the line into the table. The line is not just for show. As a pro player, Phil knows damn well that any cards pushed across that line constitutes a fold unless explicitly stated otherwise in reference to the current action. It was his turn to act with an all-in bet to him, and he pushed his cards into the table well over the line in a manner consistent with folding. When it's your turn to act, if you haven't verbally stated firmly your intent before any physical action, the physical action stands. By the book, Phil mucked his hand, and he's just being a baby (par for the course) because he did it accidentally when trying to show the other guy his cards, which he knows he shouldn't do until the hand is over, and someone caught him slipping. I would LOVE to play a game with Phil and just razz the shit out of him the entire time. I'll donk on his ass till the cows come home. These guys proved it can be done. Also, never straddle or get sucked into it. It's just bad business.
The idea with the straddle was to keep the game light and fun with recs. Yes, straddles are bad but when it keeps the game good, it's worth it. You want the recs splashy, happy, and having fun.
If you push your cards over the line into the pot, it is a fold. If the floor was called, it would have been declared a fold. This was indeed a hustle. He was just curious to see what hand he folded to.
Not necessarily... The dealer definitely shouldn't have let the players run his table like that though. He probably wanted to avoid Phil trying to throw his weight around and kill the game's vibe which is what would have happened if the floor was called. A floor would have put the blame on phil for passing his cards to dwan in the first place especially because he knows that's against the rules, but unfortunately most supervisors tend to coddle big players like this because at the end of the day they want their business. I would argue that killing phil's hand in this spot would be completely reasonable, but pretty unlikely in most cases.
@@arudeboyandaskalar7277 if i were the youtube guy I would for sure have called phil out immediately, but ive played a lot of poker i feel bad for the guy, obviously scammed by a piece of shit
I've watched this poker legend play long enough to realise he doesn't care for people that don't know the game and isn't the guy I would introduce to new players hahaha..
Imagine that too…. A whole professional career, with thousands of clips of the infamous “Phil mental breakdown” over the course of a tournament or cash game with other pros, and the most embarrassing and horrible he’s ever acted, was playing against some young 20 year olds, who combined have the playing experience of maybe 50 games of poker played, and are all just trying to have fun, play hands, and create good content, and he is acting like they should all know how to play it by the book, and the statistics and odds of every single hand, every single read on “I bet 5k under the gun, and he’s value betting the queen on the river, with a hand he could never possibly be winning” saying that a pro, would have folded because there’s no way Phil would have played his hand like that if all he had was 9s, and a pro would know that and assume that he had a much stronger hand, and he gets mad at an amateur that has no idea about that sort of things (the most mr beast probably knows about poker is what big/small blinds and the button is, who starts betting after each flop turn river, and what hands beat what) and he legit got mad that beast was value betting with a hand that can only win against a bluff…. Like bro, you’re playing as if you are playing pros who know poker inside and out, and that’s where you went wrong…. You are assuming mr beast knows how to read betting situations from what position you’re sitting at for that hand, and “let it go” because you bluffed your way into playing it “perfectly”, saying there’s no way anyone can value bet that, that hand loses to every hand that Phil is representing, like mr beast definitely has no idea what Phil was trying to represent with the way he was betting and played that hand…. He’s a TH-cam mega super star, who’s 23 and rich, he was trying to have fun and make content, he wasn’t worried if he won or lost by the end of the night…. Mr beast wanted the entire table to straddle the entire table, he wanted a 9 man all in pre flop, and Phil is getting super mad because they all weren’t playing it “by the book”…. The only person who was, was durr, even Alan said F it, and decided to just run every single hand basically he had, and just have some fun with it… man was 3 buy ins deep by 20 mins in, lost 1.1m and had the biggest smile out of everyone there, because he knew that it was all for fun, and showing poker to people that may not really know poker all to well, and also to network with a group of young adults making a lot of money by having people watch them play video games and what not…. Alan is a real man with a massive set on him with how he played, and the fact that he did so with a smile the entire night, win lose or split….. If you noticed, at the end of the night, man whipped out his black card, and instantly payed botez the money he borrowed from her. He’s a real man, while Phil was a crying little twat… which he normally is if he is losing, but it’s just so much worse because it’s against people who legit thought that the blinds raised over time in a cash game…. Expecting them to “play by the book” and getting mad that when they didn’t read the way the hand was played and he lost because HE, didn’t play right (because he was expecting them to play how a pro, or at least an amateur that knows a little more then the basics would play), and instead of adjusting to their play styles, he kept on playing that way, and getting mad at them for him getting smoked on…. Like they all outside of durr were playing like that ALL night long, and he legit didn’t change his play style at all… which honestly, shows that even for a pro, he’s a horrible poker player… if you can’t adjust to play against people who aren’t even amateurs, then you really are only as good as the best book you’ve read and how much of that book that you can memorize…. Really a shame that it was him there… Like imagine if instead of Phil, they had Daniel Negreanu…. Daniel would have said F it, let’s have some fun, he would have been down to full table straddle and all that… it would have been so much better content wise, but honestly they all wouldn’t have won as much as they did, and Daniel would have probably been on top for most won, while also playing for content, and playing as many hands as possible, but as far as the “awkwardness” that Phil came with, that wouldn’t have happened with Daniel, he would have been high fiving people that made good plays and all that (he was on a televised one, where amateurs, would play against pros and celebrities, and he would always up the amateur whenever they won, even if it was against himself, and even if their play was a terrible play, and they got “lucky”) (i forgot what the show was called- I think it was like poker after dark or something like that) but it was the one where Kevin hart also was playing and he goes “I BLUFFED DANIEL NEGRREANU”. So Daniel has show that he can always be happy even when losing…. God Phil is such a little cry baby twat, and I honestly would be happy if it came out that Phil is barred from playing poker anywhere and everywhere for life, tournaments, cash games, any type of poker, for the rest of his miserable, selfish angry life…
...Which is saying a lot, because this clown is a walking embarrassment. He's never once been anything but. He really had to work this time - it's hard to be an even bigger embarrassment. Well done, Phil. Well done.
Dan Negreanu should’ve been at this table. I’m my opinion the most enjoyable player to watch. Phil Hellmuth plays every game of poker like every penny he owns is on the line every single time. Never seen him have fun or actually enjoy moments unless it benefits him
Phil should have agreed to chop evenly and not make Slime pay 5k. I’ve given players who clearly are new to the game there money back when they clearly made an honest mistake, let alone when I contributed to them making the mistake. It’s called being a decent fucking human being.
I have no opinion on whether or not a chop should have happened or whatever. But Slime is not a player new to the game. He's played a lot of fucking poker over the years.
The best table that has ever existed. Any 1/2 shitreg would be humbled to play at this table. If I was Phil I'd be congratulating everyone on their plays no matter what they did no matter what the outcome. This table is seriously like poker night at a family reunion. The leaning over the table as the cards run out screaming for the card they want. This table is where I want to go after I die
Can we talk about what happened after this questionable hand. They ran the cards and Phil would have lost as a 6 came down on river and Phil did normal Phil things and acted like a poker god for getting slime to forfeit his winning hand i think that is another reason everyone is so mad.
@@GotloLuna68 Youre right, everything the guy said is wrong because the card was in the 4th position and not the 5th, good catch dude ! I almost fell for the whole "Phil is a money grabbing spoil sport" thing but as it was the TURN and not the RIVER I will disregard everything the guy said. Youre a smart man !
@@GotloLuna68 he was commenting on how you being fixated on correcting an irrelevant error has added nothing to the conversation and was better off being left unsaid.
Phil should've known better. He's been playing poker since the 80's, so he should know that moving his cards like that can easily be misinterpreted as a fold by most people. Slime knuckles the table, which should be a clear indicator that he thought the hand was over. Phil should've caught on to that, but he didn't. It may not have been an intentional angle, but it's sure as hell a scummy move by him.
No, he was talking to someone else. He was letting them see his cards. The hand flip was telling them they can look at his cards. Phil and slime aren't facing each other. Phil is looking at someone else and having a conversation at the other side of the table. From the other side of the table and not hearing what they are saying, it looked like a fold. But Phil was just letting someone else see his cards.
21:30 He is clearly taking advantage of someone who doesn't know he can call the floor to make a decision on this kind of issue. Any player who often play live knows you call the floor in this situation and the fact that Phil never recommends this speaks volumes.
@@kurtiskrejci723 exactly but Phil, as the player with most poker experience, should've called the floor, instead of trying to fix a situation in which he is involved and clearly in the wrong. It's clearly taking advantage of a rec who doesn't know any better and it gives poker a bad name. Because why would recs(fishes) play with any pro player if this is how they behave??
Doug did a good job here, this was all obv and nothing new here. IMO not gold at all, Standard at best. Imo what is important is that this is the state of poker, PH is allowed to be the spokesman and is just so bad. Why is it that the worst of poker makes the best content. Poker has a huge huge image problem. We have so many amazing people in poker fucking use them and let the game play out. The best game ever streamed had three bad poker elite reps and they sucked. The stream was gold bc it was not focused on tired scummy poker pros, who are bad for the game of poker.
@@tienken1 What is “gold” is the fact that Doug is making a point to shine a light on exactly the things you’re saying. Doug is spot on, clearly. The fact that is is obvious is the worst part about it. If it is so obvious why aren’t there more poker content creators talking about it? Maybe they are and I’m just missing it, which is totally possible. Nonetheless, props to Doug for actually doing it.
It was literally free content . Having Phil there made the watch good because everyone watching the collective streams had the perfect sleazy bad guy to collectively dislike . And he lost money. It was perfect.
I love when they're all shouting and laughing, talking about what everyone needs to win, and you can hear Phil mumbling in the background to himself "How in the hell does she go all in..." @ 7:06
"I dont know Phil, I have another A-9 and I'm feeling lucky" from Botez & "I'm not gonna reward you for waiting until you have a great hand and all-inning pre-flop" from Beast are just insane needles. Phil just putting overtime in the salt mines all game is a great thing to see. When it comes to the main part of the video, I dont know if Phil was purposefully angling, but he certainly should've realized that he should've made some kind of verbal announcement or in another way made it clear to Slime a player he knew is a rec, that he wasnt folding his hand. Because phil knows in most casinos forward motion past the betting line is a fold. But i still dont know if Phil did it on purpose, he just was being empty head Phil because of the table.
I don't think the fold or not matters. What matters is his behavior after. This was supposed to be a friendly game and the little penalty afterward was pathetic behavior.
i think Phil realized that slime misread it mid way through and then did the hand motion thing. he didn't fold necessarily but he played into the fact that the bad players may think he did, bad angle imo
Phil folded and then when he realized there was confusion and he could take it back you could see it click in his mind and he could suddenly do a do over.
@@memotype im not trying to be mean when I say this...or offensive....but is it possible Phil is on the spectrum? I think it's 100% safe to say he's inherently a narcissistic animal...but.... some of his actions, lack of self awareness in past shows, his cringe at times like rapping and singing (goes back to lack of self awareness) could it be possible hes truly on some sort of spectrum?
@@seankiesling2054 Everything you've described also easily falls within NPD. I mean, of course it's possible he's on the spectrum, but none of those things demonstrates that he is.
Phil has never been a good loser, but he absolutely HATES it when he loses to someone going against the odds. His mind can't even begin to comprehend the idea that poker has an element of luck that can beat his knowledge and experience at any time.
I would have ruled Phil's hand is dead as he folded. Cards went over the betting line in a forward motion, that he's passing said cards to someone to see them is meaningless. Fold actions are binding, and it's not as if Phil immediately stated he didn't fold when it was clear people at the table thought he folded, instead, he tried to game the system. It's selfish and dumb.
No he didn't fold. He pushed his cards forward because Tom or Mr B said they wanted to see his cards and the camera angle was terrible. Like I said before to many people, you have a dealer at the table and you have Tom dwan and then Keating who are both high-stakes poker pros and not one of them said that Phil folded his hand.
@@roba4139 all he did was move his cards out of the camera angle that's it. Two people asked to see his cards that's why he moved it away from his stack. Like I said you have a dealer at one of the best casinos in Vegas and three high stakes poker pros and not one of them said it was a fold. I'm sure it could look like that to maybe someone who's not so experienced but that's on them.
Phil is such a dbag! Doug I gotta say thank you to you and Brad for being cool people. I grew up watching Daniel and Phil and Doyle and Mattisow and I just thank you and Brad and Andrew and all the new guns coming up for providing better content then people like Phil.
Brad Owen or Andrew neeme, or even Doug would have been a waaaay better shout though over helmuth EDIT: didn't mean to sound condescending to Doug, just that Owen and neeme are active TH-camrs at the table right now.
@@mrjack123 I just feel like they need some legacy guys in there. Even putting on Phil Laak would have been cool. Idk I just think you need have a mix of the legacy guys and new guys
Imagine getting close to a third of the average persons income just as a tip? That is the sort of moment you realize that there is poor, regular, upper middle class, rich, wealthy and then you have people who play with monopoly money.
I can't count how many times Hustler live streams have had situations where strong floor intervention was needed, and the floor stayed completely out of it, leaving fish, recs, and non-native-English speakers to fend for themselves. They suck, and don't deserve to be the venue of choice for live streams like this one. I think that if I were the dealer, or playing in that game, I would have called the floor. And if I were the floor, I would have given Phil two choices: To say that his cards were dead because he folded. Or to say that his cards were dead because he violated the "1 player to a hand" rule. He had absolutely no right to pass his cards to another player and see their reaction (regardless of whether Dwan did his best not to react). If he didn't want to choose, I would simply rule that his hand was dead because he surrendered control of his cards, and that it didn't matter whether he intended to have the dealer muck them or have Dwan look at them. He released them before otherwise acting, or making any verbal declaration of what he was doing, so releasing them as he did became his action, FOLD. Last but not least, when Slime tapped the table believing the hand was over, if Hellmuth believed his hand was still live and he still had a right to act, he needed to immediately say "I did NOT fold, my cards are still live, and I still have to act." His failure to do so, and in fact seeming to encourage Slime to show his winning hand, was the point where I think Phil crossed the line from an innocent mistake, to shooting an angle. I'm met Phil in person several times, and know he's not a bad guy, but he needs to take responsibility for what he did here. Whether or not he was TRYING to shoot an angle, his actions DEFINITELY served well to shoot an angle, and furthermore, he knew full well how to prevent that from happening, the second that slime tapped the table and thought the hand was over. And that is still going too easy on Phil. He needs to simply never be invited to play with anyone but 100% hardened pros. His berating of others, especially of Botez for calling him with a better hand than him, and his extensive use of the f bomb (especially with a woman at the table) is simply not acceptable. He's a poker anti-ambassador, a detriment to the game. I don't care how good a tournament player he is, that is not a reason to tolerate behavioral problems at the poker table.
You clearly don't watch this stream or you would know the one person per hand rule don't apply. There isnt a floor guy watching the game for them to "come intercept a ruling" and to say "they need to not be allowed to host big games is a joke. Ryan the co-owner is the reason the game came together. You think shit just magically forms? No hard work, hours of networking goes into putting lineups together. Take your know it all attitude and criticize other streams HCL is at the top.
I liked the part where Phil repeated himself explaining how he was the best player on planet earth and was having his best year ever but for some reason could only buy in for 50k at a time
Tbh shortstacking is a known thing and frowned upon online. It gives him a bigger edge when short. An example especially in this game is, he could get his whole stack in 3/4 ways and by the river end up heads up. So he gets 3-4x the money while only having to beat one hand. Due to the craziness of the game and how big the stacks were getting. Also, Phil is just a fucking nit.
Phil is a prime example of what’s wrong with live cash games these days. Good players trying to talk shit to the fish and scare them away when in reality he should be congratulating them and trying to get them to stay as long as possible. I see it every time I play live. There’s 1-2 people who think they are the shit and feel the need to talk down on the fish causing them to leave and it kills tables for no reason. People even talk shit after someone looses a buy in and are thinking if they should buy back or not. Simply say nice hand! Or unlucky and have them run to the atm and comeback. Instead of killing their mood and causing them to leave.
Yes, so many players are weak and feel the need to talk themselves up to overcome their feelings of inadequacy. Phil knows he can't win in a cash game unless he angles or upsets or taunts or somehow throws people off their games.
It's because with the internet and social media players aren't playing for money anymore, they play for narcissistic reasons. People just don't know how to stfu anymore.
Ludwig saying "why can't you buy in more" shut him down so hard 😂😂 Guy got taken to the bank by a bunch of video game streamers who had wya bugger pockets than him.
WSOP bracelets does not equal cash games. Lol dneg has said many many many times why phil ivey is goat compared to helmuth, because helmuth is garbage at cash games, where Real high stakes poker is played.@@jvw8129
I think Phil really underestimated how smart these creators are. Botez is a god damn chess Master, Mr. Beast is a marketing genius, Lud is a very good chess player and former pro Smash player, xQc is a serial gambler so he knows his way around a poker game. And yet Phil treats them like they’re some one hit wondera who got famous on TH-cam by sheer luck
Agreed! The guy was all-in and Phil motioned for the guy to reveal his hand after he'd released his own. That only makes sense if Phil has intended to fold.
Yeah, if he had class, he wouldn't bother with antics at this table because they aren't needed. Mr. Beast was literally just going all in every other hand he was in. Tom Dwan read the table right and just used his energy to read people.
Sadly I have to side with Phil on this at 6:47 it shows they were playing like idiots… there is no excuse for ignorance and treating something that might not be as important to you like a joke… however !!! Calling with a9 is fine and brilliant call
Whether you like Hellmuth or not, this was SUPER scummy by him. Angling (intended or not), Freerolling the hand, charging a 5k tax, and then telling Slime that he gave him a “good deal”. Sheesh. No wonder poker (and poker players) have such a bad reputation. The long term EV of Hellmuth either just splitting the pot, or running out the cards for what was in the middle would have been enormous. But no. Hellmuth being who he is he had to take advantage of the poor kid.
Doug, I always respect your analysis and appreciate you commenting on this. The reason I think I still interpret this as an angle is because after Phil “passes his cards” over the betting line, he sees the other guys reaction and then motions for him to turn his cards over as if to say “show me what you had.” The player then does that and Phil says “Oh, I didn’t fold.” Given the way it looked (looked like a fold to me and the commentators even say “Phil folds the best hand!”), the other player’s reaction, AND Phil telling the other guy to show his hand there’s no way (imo) that Phil’s hand should be live. But I agree with you, if they do let his hand remain live then there should be no more money going into the middle and both player’s hands should be live. Phil would’ve actually lost that hand on a runout, which is exactly why he went with the “penalty” option to ensure he won. Disgraceful.
Tom was asking if he could show the table, Phil was saying it was okay to show and announced what he had. All an honest misunderstanding. Phil should have been honest with himself, if he was going to call then chop, if he was going to fold them give slime the pot
Let me ask you this. After thousands of live hands on TV, 40 years of poker, why did Phil choose this one hand to shoot an angle? It's really ridiculous if you think of it. You really believe he told the guy to show his hand and then pretended he never folded? On live TV? Why did he wait 40 years to do it?
@@GeraldGruenigMedia1 Because he didn't wait 40 years to do it. Phil tries to do what he can to make money or prevent himself from losing money. th-cam.com/video/DBEGjAXzqoY/w-d-xo.html Look at this clip from early in Phil's career with the hand starting at 9:01. Phil blatantly lies about his action - luckily the floor wasn't having it. I do acknowledge that Phil's record of angleshooting is pretty pristine overall, but he's not above it. That coupled with all of the abuse he's verbally dealt players over the years (calling them idiots, morons, berating them for play when he loses even if it's a standard spot, saying every curse word under the sun when he loses (and sometimes directed at other players), etc. I respect the bracelets he's won and while this isn't a 100% clear-cut angle, based on all the evidence and the totality of the circumstances I still believe it was one.
@@lyserg1k What makes you think that? That’s what everyone said was going to happen with Phil and Tom, especially Tom, and even slightly with Alan. And we all know how that turned out. That said, he would have been astronomically a better fit in that group than Phil. But then again, just about anyone would.
@Duncan Donut Donut who cares, you already have the draw of all the biggest people on the platform. Goal should be to put together the best group for a historically great game.
Doug, You are very spot on in your discuss about this video. Good to listen to a person, such as you who has etiquette and isn't an asshole. You are in it to win, but you are considerate and thoughtful of others and where they are at in the game.
Just watched ludwigs stream. He said that he and everyone at the table just thought Phil was funny and they enjoyed roasting him. However, to Ludwig and other creators, this game doesn’t mean anything for their profession. The impact of the poker community does not apply to them. Despite other players not being bothered by hellmuths antics, hellmuth failed to see that he was representing the entire poker community. Millions of non poker players likely watched this event to watch their favorite content creators play, only to see that the poker community is represented by a self centered egoistical man who berates other people. This looks terrible for the poker community as it rejects new players from wanting to enter if they believe Phil represents poker players as a whole. Overall really bad look for hellmuth and for poker. Let the record show I absolutely loved this stream and thought the entire thing was hilarious and them needling Phil and him getting mad was hilarious. Still a bad look though
He’s been doing this forever though. For some reason, many organizers in the community seem to want this from Phil as it creates some form of nostalgia from poker’s bigger days. Personally, to me, Phil’s antics have run their course and just aren’t entertaining anymore. I don’t even think he’s serious. He’s just playing a character. One that no one cares about anymore.
@@PIP-zf9yb nah you’re tripping Phil is a sore loser. Learn to handle a loss like an adult. He gets mad that not everyone plays poker “the right way” aka his way… that’s what makes poker so great is how versatile players can be
@@crypastesomemore8348 according to Phil and his fanboys. If you isolate the clip of him throwing his cards well over the line it’s a fold 100 out of 100 times. Put it this way if my buddy is on the opposite side of the table can just toss my cards to him unannounced let him have a peak??? Of course not. He should have kept a finger on the cards and pushed them to dean if anything.
It became an angle when he motions for “dwan” to flip his hand while staring at slime, he is looking in the same direction moments later while talking to slime. Why stare at the amateur while motioning for DWAN to flip over YOUR hand? He could have told dwan to flip it verbally. He could have flipped over his own damn hand. He was staring at slime and he knows what it looks like when someone is about to show their hand. Hellmuth had a lapse in judgement and was being a bitter loser
I had been working as a poker dealer for a long time. and in this "angle shooting hand" phil got very lucky that the dealer or floor didnt rule his hand as being dead. In my casino where i was working a hand is dead on several occasions. First: you are not allowed to share the hand with any other player or the hand is dead. Second: If you flip the hand before the last action took place, the hand is dead and last but not least the hand is dead when you show a clear folding motion which Phil did.
Because this is a celebrity game and for entertainment purposes more so than serious,the rules were fairly stretched for it,players could show other players their cards and they did it all the time.phil just took the game too seriously because he's a professional clown
I agree with casinos that go by the "one player to a hand" rule, so when Phil intentionally shows his hand to Tom, Phil's hand becomes dead. Ruling otherwise would allow players able to get advice from other players, players who have seen their own cards, so that even if their advice is only in the form of non-verbal cues or reactions, this sharing of hands would mean that the sharing players would be essentially playing as a group rather than acting individually. I believe that this action is a subtle form of collusion. Thus, Phil's hand should be considered mucked as soon as he deliberately shows the hand to another player, especially when he hands over his cards to another player and then takes the cards back. Any legit casino should muck Phil's hand.
in CASH games, you can show anyone who doesn't have a hand anymore your cards. While i obv haven't played everywhere in the US, I have played alot of US casinos. There is no such thing as a dead hand after showing your cards in a cash game. Now poker TOURNAMENTS is where the rules get real strict
@@ryantraniam you're not allowed to influence action in a hand where you folded.. so if I folded and a guy showed me his cards.. if I openly said anything, to either him or whoever he is up against, I would be heavily penalized... also if I made any obvious gestures as well If its a 9 handed table and 2 people are up against each other on the river.. and one guy bets... the guy with last action could literally lay his cards face up to the whole table before making a decision.. people usually do that to maybe get some info out of the guy who bet, to see his reaction etc
@@wjatube if you're the last possible action it doesn't matter. It's heads up and slime is all in. Phil showing his hand doesn't give an advantage, Slime can't double all in. All cash games allow this, it's common on poker streams alllll the time.
This has been one of your best takes Doug. Captured what the dynamic of the table and read situation with Phil( deffs not an angle shoot, but just the worst possible way to deal with the situation) If any friends or colleagues acted like this they would not be invited back or respected. Great breakdown.
It became an angle when he motions for “dwan” to flip his hand while staring at slime, he is looking in the same direction moments later while talking to slime. Why stare at the amateur while motioning for DWAN to flip over YOUR hand? He could have told dwan to flip it verbally. He could have flipped over his own damn hand. He was staring at slime and he knows what it looks like when someone is about to show their hand. Hellmuth had a lapse in judgement and was being a bitter loser
I agree the floor manager should have been called. The amateur player completed his action and went all in. Phil Hellmuth pushed his cards forward in a motion that looked like folding. So, it should have been called a fold. Amateur player wins the pot. If it was not a fold, then the decision is to Hellmuth. He would likely call, since he is ahead in the hand. Amateur wins on the runout. Either way, the Amateur should have won.
2 ปีที่แล้ว +85
Alex is a genuinely good person with a good head on her shoulders. You can tell she was really nervous about these huge pots. I don't think she's a "natural" gambler in the sense that it thrills her to bet on things and, while her channel does pretty well, I doubt she has the kind of "fuck it" money that Mr. Beast or Allan do for example. So that was a huge night for her all around. I think Phil is good for streams like this though because he makes it really easy to pull against him. That's important for entertaining competitions. When he loses, it's just that more entertaining. As for his needling Alex, people might not know that online chess is filled with trash talk way worse than anything said at that table and she gives as good as she gets.
Alex gave as good as she got sure, but it still isn't nice to see Phil berating a funny nice person who's just there to have fun. Alex took it like a champp though and made a sweet profit, bet she's laughing all the way to the bank
yea i have mixed feelings cause i think hellmuth is good for entertainment but i dont like how he berated a casual amateur lmao. but if alex dont care then i dont care either lmfao. i think daniel negreanu would be perfect for the table. good w casual amateurs and also can be the focal point for hellmuth's berating lmao
@@henrymccoy2306 If the players can communicate with each other at all, whether online or not, casual blitz games are definitely known for trash talk. th-cam.com/video/GoaC6mXpsto/w-d-xo.html
Phil was behaving like an insolent child in front of an audience that poker seldom gets. I know that's Phil being Phil, but he definitely hurt the game and looked like a jackass in the process.
Phil also berated a dealer after the "fold" incident too, mostly because he was losing. Joey was in the booth for this game, and he would have been a way better ambassador for the game, let alone Doug or Garret.
@Duncan Donut Donut ahh yes, the controversial position that police shouldn't arbitrarily execute people of color. You're right, concern for others isn't a good look. Nice self-report, hog.
i immediately found it funny that he got salty when she litterally had the superiour hand at the start, she didnt just get lucky at the river she had him beat out the gate
Feels like he was encouraging the guy to turn his hand over with that little hand gesture. He wouldn't encourage that unless he was folding (or an angle shooter). Since he did, feels like he was intending to fold. That being said, I think the rules in Cali and this casino would declare his hand still live at this point. I think they should have both talked equally (not just Phil telling him what to do) and ultimately agreed to just run it for the $5k they each put in. Ironically Phil would've lost (6 on the turn).
John Little explains this.. Someone looked at phils hand and Tom said "show one, show all" and to confirm.. Phil asked you want me to turn my hand up (with the gesture)?
It was all an honest mistake. Tom wanted to see the cards, then he wanted to flip them over, Phil was just being social and letting him do that. From Slime's POV though easy to see why he thought it was a fold and showed his cards
Yeah honestly props to botez for being able to needle back, but after 4 hours of complaining about the same hand im surprised no one told him to get the fuck over it
This is why Tony G should be sitting at every table Phil is at. Imagine the tirade Tony would have blasted Phil with after seeing that folding nonsense.
He knows he's in a game he can get away with some sketchy stuff, so he chose to do that. Be honest: you don't want to say it, but he did that on purpose. Not for even a split second does he consider that he messed up. He knows instantly EXACTLY what has happened, he doesn't have to ask questions to decipher what has gone wrong. Guilty.
Slow it down and you'll see Dwans hand reaching from the left Only After this did Phil react and slide his cards directly into his incoming hand. Now unlucky dude 2 seats behind and watch Phil's head. pointed towatds The Opposite side of the table the whole. Phil makes the hand gesture listen after u hear show us and be4 he gets his cards back. he was agreeing to flip his cards and show the table he's all in there's no more betting he's allowed to do this. The commentator says Phil gave his hand to dwan and flipped it which is PERFECTLY Fine at a cash game. this was a complete misunderstanding not planned he reacted to Dwan
The other 2 pros at the table were in agreement that slime was in the wrong and that phil should offer him a deal. I cant imagine that they were in on it, it was pretty plainly a misunderstanding, although Phil was a bit of a prick about it.
I can’t help myself. Another thing that stood out was that Phil Hellmuth was really using a ridiculous amount of profanity. I’m all for freedom of speech, but in a game as fun as this one ,where everybody was having a good time winning and losing…and the most knowledgeable player at the table was being angry and aggressive and not friendly or fun like everybody else. Phil made himself a really bad example of how a Poker PROFESSIONAL should EVER act. Phil is bad for business and bad for the poker industry and I’m not exactly sure why he would be invited on any Poker show ever again.
It's crazy to watch Phil Helmuth going off on Mr. Beast, who is arguably one of the nicest people in the world! Way to go Phil, you always make yourself look bad
Right? I'm not really a fan of Mr. Beast (though I certainly don't dislike him), but no one can deny he's a nice guy. He's also extremely generous with his money...unlike Phil.
This is 2 years old but still applies. Hell Smooch has no way to validate his life except for winning at poker. Its not the money its the winning . He could never play another hand and not have money problem. His wife is a doctor at Stanford psychiatry. She can't treat her own family but she could recommend someone.
I actually saw this stream show up in my feed and was like, “no way!” got really excited to watch and proceeded to see Hellmuth ruin the entire show. He was constantly trying to ‘big bro’ everyone at the table and is genuinely just an ass, ruined what should have been a great show for the poker community to grow from.
@@MrSimonvk definitely some spots i found enjoyment throughout, however it was just hard to ignore phil’s antics throughout the stream. VPIP’s were through the roof but still couldn’t help but pay attention to the drama phil caused
I've been a dealer and dual rate for more than 10 years now, if the floor gets called over there's a few ways it could go down. 1. The forward motion past the betting line could be percieved as a fold and phil surrenders the pot, this is pretty unlikely though. 2. Slime makes a stink about phil passing his cards to dwan in the first place because it's a clear violation of one player per hand and phil's hand is declared foul due to possible collusion. This in my opinion would be totally reasonable. 3. It's clear that the cordial atmosphere is willing to let phil and tom's shenanigans go unpunished and slime surrenders the pot while getting to take back his all-in bet without that questionable 5k penalty. This is the most likely scenario. Rulings like this depend greatly on the house and supervisor
@@arudeboyandaskalar7277 Slime was definitely pissed off, you can tell by his demeanor but he held it in because he didn't want to make a big fuss about it on TV.
@@johnv5827 Yeah, there's several reasons why players shouldn't show their cards to anyone or pass them around like that. I've accidentally slid hands into the muck as a dealer before because of this kind of thing. Phil and Tom ought to know better.
At least the creators apparently had a fun time roasting him, especially since he was losing. On one stream, it can be a fun gimmick to have a total lolcow tryhard who thinks he's the best but who just dumps money, but I wonder if the fans or players would get tired of this if he participated in these games more and more. Because a good part of the poker community certainly did.
Even though he berated people and was annoying, I think it was better than some crusher coming in, playing perfect poker, and walking away with a million profit. This game really had a great outcome despite some uncomfortable stuff from Phil
Yeah like garret would have been awful on this game imo. I think guys like Keating and maybe Jackie who like to f around and take chances are perfect for this though
Curious as to why the floor didn’t step in. In any poker room you go ahead and shove your cards over the line on the table and back off from them, that’s clearly a fold. Phil really took advantage of Slime’s naiveness and in honesty he should’ve known better and called the floor over to rule in Slime’s favor.
They could have invited literally anyone to this game to represent the game. Dnegs, Garret, Berkey, anyone, instead they invited the most delusional entitled prick in poker. What an embarrassment, instead of making poker fun and putting it in good light, he's embarrassing himself and makes other poker players look bad, it's cringy af.
Phil was invited to blow up. This is what they wanted. Inviting Garret would have been absolutely silly. The dude is smashing high stakes players daily, he would eat these kids alive and have zero fun doing it. You have to invite "Personalities" to the table if you're going to invite pros. Phil went too crazy with the persona here, imo. Didn't read the room. Maybe thought everyone was going to riff off him but people seemed put off/afraid to interact. The only other people you could really invite to this game would be like... Negs, Laak, Antonio, maybe a Tony G... people like that. If you invite trihards with no personality they just destroy the fish and it doesn't work. Not that I'm condoning Phil's behaviour.... but having Garret up $1M and everyone down 100-200K at the end of the night isn't a good look for poker, either. Makes it feel like new players can't get involved when a pro is just crushing their souls
You missed a few key points. Hellmuth made a motion to turn over the cards to dwan but slime clearly interpreted it as for him to show. Which is another bad action to add to confusing the situation and inducing slime to think the hand is over. And then in my opinion the biggest grievous act on hellmuth, slime actually pat the table very hard after he thought he had won the hand in response to Phil’s multiple folding motions, which is another easy to interpret action that slime thinks the hand is over. Any real player, and I mean literally anyone would immediately know what slime patting the table hard like that means and would be stumbling over themself to inform that player that the hand isn’t over. Basically hellmuth makes many universally understood fold motions, pushing cards over the line face down somewhat in the direction of the dealer, it’s not like he showed dwan and pulled his hand back, he literally threw his cards across the table also somewhat in the direction of the dealer. Several of those motions are known to be folding motions and in many casinos his hand is actually already folded. Even if not there. But to have the experience that hellmuth has, and to not pick up on the fact that he has so far made confusing misleading motions especially to an amateur, then slime pats the table as if he won, and then hellmuth isn’t in tune with the energy of the moment. Like this isn’t a regular player vs an amateur. This is bloody Phil hellmuth. We all know the casual presence we constantly present to everyone. But we’re watching like goddamn hawks, and calculating every moment and interpreting everything. This is Phil hellmuth, it’s not like he just casually was like, geee I didn’t realize all the messed up things I just did, and I’m also going to somewhat not notice your actions or body language which is clearly telegraphing that you think the hand is over. Oh what? What no I didn’t fold, why did you turn your cards over? That would never happen in a million years vs true world class players. Nope not ever. Way too much to gloss over and play dumb on. He’s bloody Phil hellmuth, his awareness is a bit higher than the average player. I don’t think he initially did all those actions to setup the angle, but I do think he stumbled into it, and played dumb and at the last moment when he clearly knew that slime thought the hand was over, he did play dumb and allowed it to happen. There’s no explanation, there really isn’t it. I don’t believe hellmuth was that out of tune with reading his opponent. I mean according to his story he’s facing an all in and trying to get a read from an amateur? And his read didn’t pick up on the hand pat or body language?
People seem to not be saying much about the hand gesture. That was the worst part of this whole thing I though. Pretty much telling him to turn his cards over.
As someone who has watched a lot of poker and slime, Slime has played a decent amount of poker and is in no way new to the game. Slime interpreting phils move as a fold wasnt just a beginner’s mistake it was someone who has hundreds of hours playing poker seeing cards move towards the dealer essentially impossible for slime to not think it was a fold
Wrong. he didnt motion dwan to turn the cards, he LOOKED over at slime and motion him to turn over his cards. Why would Dwan turn over Hellmuths cards at that point? No action was taken yet, and if it was it was Phil folding. Such a stupid take Michael.
Agree with the majority of your points, although the camera angle does not show us who Phil is looking at with with his "turn them over" gesture. Often in cash games, once a heads up opponent is all in, the player with the decision is able to turn his cards over to get a read on whether his hand is good or not. This varies from casino to casino of course. IMO What he should have done though, once Slime patted the table and expose his cards, was acknowledge that there was a great deal of ambiguity in what had just happened and propose that the $5K bet and subsequent all-in bet was taken back, with the hand run out with what was in the pot before those actions and both players hands being live.
@@brysonsmith1523 fellow poker and slime enjoyer! I 100% agree with you. That's a big part that Doug missed as well. Slime has played literally 100s of hours of poker and describes himself as a casino rat. Michael points out that the hand thumping the table would be interpreted by nearly any human being as thinking you'd won. I think if Slime were in Phil's shoes, he would've seen them thump and instantly corrected them to make sure they knew they hand wasn't over yet
Gotta love Doug, always delivers! Sense of humour: 10/10 Blazer: 10/10 Hair: 10/10 Poker Analysis: 10/10 Poker Channel: 10/10 Black leather couch: 4/10
Any casino I've ever played in that counts as a fold. I know Phil Helmuth did not do it on purpose, but he has probably been playing so long at a privileged level that he does not even think twice about it. Now if the roles were reversed, I can't imagine how mad Helmuth would be
For real. Sending your hand across the table for another player to look at? That's dead. I guess since it's a meet up game it *could* be different...but looked very folded.
I was watching this live and I said to myself "he folded" and then he put us all in the twilight zone. Nina said you folded? And he said "yes I have A 9" he knew he lied that's why he immediately defended him getting a "pretty good deal"
As someone that isn't really a fan of poker, but has watched a bit of WSOP back in the early 2000's, I'm pretty sure Phil was invited because of his outbursts and frustration. Gamers like watching people rage and get upset at bad rng, so Phil was a huge amount of free and easy content for them. He does kind of make poker players look bad, but most non-poker fans who were watching don't care anyways. The whole 'fake fold' thing didn't even seem like a big deal at the time anyway. If anything the streamers periodically joked about the situation and how upset it was making some people, which circles back to the whole free content / viewers enjoying rage and controversy.
Phil is so funny. Blows my mind how he expects these amateurs to understand his range and then get pissed when they don’t play “according to how they should”
Yeah, like I'll give it to him that just because you're a pro, it doesn't mean you can just steamroll anyone you want at any time, especially very loose players, so the stack sizes and stuff I can forgive, I mean this isn't Rounders. But he also went in sweaty when it's very clearly just a super trumped up home game, lol.
Phil was beyond embarrassing here. He was acting like a clown this whole time. He should have just sat back and had fun with this table. As for the hand in questions. I don't think he purposely was angle shooting, that being said, I think if you get the floor in on it, he moved his cards forward in a folding manner, and they would have told him it was a fold and the pot did not belong to him, so I think Phil shouldn't have charged him a dime, if anything, hes lucky the floor didn't come over and give the whole pot to the other player.
I can believe that he was passing his cards to Dwan so he could look, but like Brett Hanson said on Twitter he absolutely should have at the very least offered to chop the pot or given the guy the whole pot.
Yes. One player to a hand is a thing. The hand should be dead. I can’t show my hand to someone else and possibly get a reaction from them that would imply a fold or a call.
@@cacox it should be even more enforceable in high stakes games. It’s one thing is you turn your cards over and see what your opponent says or does. It’s an entirely different thing to push your cards in a fold like fashion to another player. Lot of players push their cards to other players when they fold. Everything about PH body language screams “fold”. Even the commentator announced a fold. And the graphics on screen gave Slime the win. This is just wrong.
@@sylvainguinepain5624 It's an entertainment show more than a proper high stakes game. So the rules are way more loose, and it's more run by "feel", feel being the general table consensus and what the producers think makes for better content.
@@sylvainguinepain5624 Maybe in some more professional setting high cash games but in a situation like this I think they're gonna let the players be pretty loose. They're also all pretty wealthy and probably not very concerned about the amount of money they're playing with and are there to have a good time on steam. I think it's a also worth noting a few other players can be heard saying something like "No he didn't fold" after Slime shows his hand after thinking Phil folded
I know the videos old now but as a tournament director myself, and someone who’s played for over 20 years, I find what Phil did absolutely disgusting. Even at a table of seasoned pros I think he shouldn’t have acted this way. Floor should’ve been called but also, demanding $5k and forfeiting of hand is abhorrent. Maybe match Phil’s bet and play out rest of hand with no more betting, imo, would’ve been the most ‘sportsmanly’ of outcomes - he just didn’t want to split / lose after seeing he was winning - not the way to play, Phil.
100% agree with Doug. 1) floor should had been called 2) they should just continue run the board with no action or run it twice for the all in. I remember i was playing for a 6k pot, my opponent got excited, slam his cards which jumped and hit the floor (which makes it a dead hand at my local casino). i looked at the hand realize we are chopping it, let him had his other half of the pot.
First off, the most outrageous thing Hellmuth did on the stream was his constant misogyny towards Alex Botez. The situation with Slime was caused entirely by the 3 pros at the table, it's disappointing that they let Hellmuth get away with everything he did, verbally towards Alex and the insane 5k "punishment" against Slime - who wasn't at fault whatsoever. I have never seen anyone who wants to show their cards to someone do it with a motion that clearly looks like a fold. On top of all of that slowstacking against amateurs while yelling constantly how you're the GOAT... What a trash human being.
@Duncan Donut Donut Phil was in there with a worse hand. Assuming it’s a bad call from botez (I don’t think it was) If he called before there was a bunch of people to act, that’s bad because who knows what the people behind you could have. Phil was just being his usual salty self with zero introspection or accountability.
@@yaboyjay7202 How was Phil Helmuth being misogynistic? I watched the whole stream. You could argue that Phil Helmuth was being an asshole throughout the night (Ludwig said that Phil was doing it in a funny way and all the streamers enjoyed Phil’s tilted ragey banter, although the slime stuff was pretty messed up ). But I never got any sense of misogyny whatsoever. He was just acting like how Phil Helmuth always acts towards (mostly male) poker pros.
Aside from the controversy, it's extremely weird, as a chess fanatic, poker fanatic, twitch fanatic, youtube fanatic, and also recently a csgo fanatic, seeing Alexandra botez, ninja, Ludwig, Mr beast, Phil Helmuth, and then VOO CSGO (voo commented) on the SAME fucking video. Holy shit what a collision of worlds. 90% of my main interests on the same video wtf. Next thing I'll see Steph Curry and Cookiezi commenting here as well lmao what a trip this comment section and video has been.
Well, there was everyone's first mistake - inviting Hell-mouth and expecting anything different. Phil has ALWAYS been the biggest douchebag in poker. The only game I'd ever play with him is Russian Roulette, and I'd make sure he went first and used an automatic..
I was so happy for the winners in this game and Alan Keating, man, he was there simply to give action. Props to him !!! Also, chat watching this game went absolutely ballistic when Phil did this and then more ballistic when it wasn't addressed by the commentator.
1000% agree especially with the straddle, it was really tough to watch him take it so seriously. Time to run your own $50K table for content Doug and my DM's are open 🐸☕
After watching this it's clear phil was getting really annoyed that he was losing and deep inside he hated that these people who are half his age were throwing around money like it was nothing and to these youtubers it was nothing. And phil is used to being the richest guy in the room and he thought these ppl were going to fawn over him and instead they laughed in his face especially when mr beast called him out for being a nit. Great analysis by Doug as always
I had not seen this before. I don´really care what the "poker etiquette" says. PH pushed his hand away, i.e. he folded. Even if the other one made a technical mistake a player on PHs level should have given him the pot. I´m trying to find a similar situation in another sport, but I can´t. Phil Hellmuth is a old punk. He has no shame. No integrity. Not a humble bone in his body. Why would anyone want to play against him, except for the fact that his childish behavior brings numbers to the broadcasts. Embarrassing.
I've got to say, for as long as I've been a poker player, 20+ years, and have been somewhat of a fan of Mr. Helmuth's abilities and accomplishments, I have lost all respect for the man. His actions and behavior is unacceptable and he's become a black cloud in the poker community.. And still promoting a pump and dump crypto??? Come on! It's time to cancel this guy ya'll..
Completely agree, calling professional players "bad" has humor in it so I always thought he was blowing off steam and being funny in the process. The behavior I saw in this video made me revaluate the respect I have for this man on another level. This attitude from him is who he is as a person and I don't understand how another person could be married to such a grown man child.
There should be a forward motion rule when it comes to folding. Especially if they’re on the table. He might not be trying to angle but that exact move is used by angle shooters all the time.
Even if seen as a mistake by Phil for being too casual, tough titties. Phil did something that gave the impression he was folding, and tossing your cards across the line should cost him in that case, not the other guy.
![[UNCENSORED] Phill Hellmuth Is FURIOUS At Young Punk](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w8z6Y6DoLRc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UNCENSORED] Phill Hellmuth Is FURIOUS At Young Punk](/img/tr.png)
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
![This Has NEVER HAPPENED Before!!!! [Feat. Nik Airball]](/img/n.gif)
What do you guys think? Was Phil angleshooting in this hand?
💯
Fuck hellmuth
It was a bad move by Phil. Doesn’t look good at all.
He wasn't but he wasn't reading the room well all night
Phil being a seasoned pro. He knew exactly what he was doing.
I hope everyone who plays against Hellmuth asks him “did you fold?” in every hand he plays for the rest of his career, even when it’s obvious that he’s folded.
He should never be allowed to live this down.
Go watch the actual footage, zero chance he folded. Stop being a sheep.
@@neargenius4210 I watched it live. I thought he folded. The announcer thought he folded. Slime thought he folded.
@@neargenius4210 How can you say that when the announcer thought it was a fold, and so did at least a few players at the table?
@@joshswanstrom5849 almost all player in the table say "he didnt fold" you can cleary hear them.
@@Martinchox Sounds like what I said. The announcer and a few people at the table thought he folded. I'm sure he didn't think he did. And I'm sure he wasn't trying to. But if you slide two cards across the betting line and it's not a fold, what would be the action that would make it a fold?
They should have had Negreanu. He's always been a really entertaining guy who's good with new players.
Totally. Why is PH still getting invited to anything? While he does create a lot of press, it's almost strictly negative or embarrassing.
100%, first thing i thought when i heard this story as well
For sure
Agreed…. 1 million times over!
Negreanu would have been amazing
“It’s for his brand” argument needs to stop too. People defend him every time he does this. Botez, who is probably the nicest person at the table, is so happy she’s almost in tears, and Phil decided to berate this amateur for making the correct play so she can’t even enjoy her one moment. Just no defense for it.
Also, at the highest stakes, especially against amateurs, the social aspect is so huge. Keep the recreationals in the game. You’ve got people here with $500,000 who don’t know what a range is, just trying to have fun, and Phil is actively trying to worsen their experience, leading to them getting out of the game. It’s like he doesn’t want to profit. He’s just awful at all aspects. They have to stop inviting him because even if spots like this generate views, they absolutely kill the game if amateurs watching this feel like this is how they’ll be treated.
Agreed. They should invite Bill Perkins instead and esfandiari
Id like to add that he berated her for over 2 hours too
@@fractal_mind562 ^^^ This. Phil continued to berate her for A LONG TIME after the hand was over. It was borderline verbal abuse. Fortunately, Botez has had to deal with worse idiots that Phil from the chess world. She's got a thick skin and can handle "Poker boy" (her words).
Man, you've completely missed the mark. These people a e youtube stars. You think they are upset over some drama?!? Their job is to create drama. I guarantee you every single person at that table would of been annoyed if he was sitting there being silent and respectful. There's a reason they picked Phil to be in this game... these people are youtubes version of reality tv stars. Getting mad at phil is like getting mad at what happened on keeping up with the kardashians. It's just like.. what did you expect was going to happen lol
Yeah, I don't think Botez was bothered by Phil one bit. They get trolled much worse online at their day jobs.
Despite that though, I think Phil is a terrible representative for a community that wants to open itself to new blood. Not only does he have no table manners, he has zero understanding of the cash game. In that A8 vs A9 hand, he had to realize that he had no fold equity against the biggest stack on the table. He might be the greatest tournament poker player of all time, but dude needs to hit up some cash game training videos.
Watched this live and was embarrassed by how bad Phil made poker players look. I also wonder what fool organized this. PH is the worst poker ambassador. Put Phil Laak, Daniel, or Antonio in there. They keep the games light and fun. On another note, I was happy to see Andrea win. She didn't even have to sacrifice her Queen 😆
im blown away as to why they didn't have daniel there lol. makes no sense.
@@Xgeneralll What make this make double no sense. Daniel was part of Pog Champ the chess event
Lol. You berate one douchebag and immediately propose three new ones. They're all unbearable to watch or be around in a game.
There are literally hundreds of players that would've been better.
Ludwig organized it
As a recreational player my self, I found Phil extremely entertaining. Seeing him lose to amateurs and tilting was extremely hilarious.
it's funny for us, but not funny for people who are actually there and experiencing it.
@@Burgerbeast101 they’re all content creators and this table was put together for a livestream, they (at least Ludwig was) were saying after that they loved having him there since him tilting was great content
@@Burgerbeast101 match the energy
What's tilting?
@@MrMongoose221 Getting mad over losing and making more mistakes as a result, this in turn makes you madder resulting in worse play.
the best thing is that Phil lost money so all of his tricks got fucked by karma
You misunderstand the concept of karma. Quiet embarrassed for you actually.
@@philipbridler huh no he didn’t 😂 the way we use the word karma is to say this guy did something shitty so something shitty happened to him
@@philipbridler no likes because you're the one who doesn't understand karma. Quite embarrassing for you actually.
@@philipbridler karma in the most of the west is a law of equivalent exchange applied to actions and their morality/context, and a corresponding reaction to equalise that transaction, so to speak.
Apologies if its different in your culture
Heads Up für 1.000 €?
Hellmuth is a complete embarrassment of a poker player/ambassador. Imagine you are a fan of the content creators and this is the first time you are introduced to poker, and you have to watch the "best poker player in the world" mouth off at Alexandra Botez for calling 2bbs with A9. No wonder the state of poker is as it is, when the new people who are introduced to the game have to watch this joke of a poker player. Total embarrassment
Phil tossed his cards over the line into the table. The line is not just for show. As a pro player, Phil knows damn well that any cards pushed across that line constitutes a fold unless explicitly stated otherwise in reference to the current action. It was his turn to act with an all-in bet to him, and he pushed his cards into the table well over the line in a manner consistent with folding. When it's your turn to act, if you haven't verbally stated firmly your intent before any physical action, the physical action stands. By the book, Phil mucked his hand, and he's just being a baby (par for the course) because he did it accidentally when trying to show the other guy his cards, which he knows he shouldn't do until the hand is over, and someone caught him slipping. I would LOVE to play a game with Phil and just razz the shit out of him the entire time. I'll donk on his ass till the cows come home. These guys proved it can be done.
Also, never straddle or get sucked into it. It's just bad business.
The idea with the straddle was to keep the game light and fun with recs. Yes, straddles are bad but when it keeps the game good, it's worth it. You want the recs splashy, happy, and having fun.
What is the straddle?
I’ve seen dealers/floor let players grab their cards from the muck and turn them over
Ninja laughing in Phil's face after hitting runner runner was the highlight of the night lol
Tyler Blevins was hammered lol. I'd never thought I'd see the most popular streamer that plays for kids get hammered live.
Do you have a link to that? I'd love to see it.
@@JC6n search "ninja laughs in Hellmuth face". Don't want to post a link.
th-cam.com/video/-DCRz8Xm_ts/w-d-xo.html
@@bphelpsy0044 most popular streamer was actually xqc lol
Phil’s behaviour was embarrassing, please no one EVER let him play in such a showcase game again
He ruins every livestream/event he's in. I don't get why places want him to be in their games, he is all negative publicity.
Agree
hahahaha, moron he has an open seat to every game in the world, forever
Was still one of the best poker streams of all time. HCL is killer
You sound hurt over a steam. Why don’t buy in and tell him that. Bunch of soft ladies in here
If you push your cards over the line into the pot, it is a fold. If the floor was called, it would have been declared a fold. This was indeed a hustle. He was just curious to see what hand he folded to.
Not necessarily... The dealer definitely shouldn't have let the players run his table like that though.
He probably wanted to avoid Phil trying to throw his weight around and kill the game's vibe which is what would have happened if the floor was called.
A floor would have put the blame on phil for passing his cards to dwan in the first place especially because he knows that's against the rules, but unfortunately most supervisors tend to coddle big players like this because at the end of the day they want their business.
I would argue that killing phil's hand in this spot would be completely reasonable, but pretty unlikely in most cases.
yup, he pushed his cards over the line... nothing else matters.
@@arudeboyandaskalar7277 if i were the youtube guy I would for sure have called phil out immediately, but ive played a lot of poker
i feel bad for the guy, obviously scammed by a piece of shit
yep, he didn't know what to do so he was doing weird shit in the hope it would help. And it worked
not true, that's a betting line, not a fold line. Your cards are live until they hit the muck.@@arudeboyandaskalar7277
I've watched this poker legend play long enough to realise he doesn't care for people that don't know the game and isn't the guy I would introduce to new players hahaha..
He's not a "legend". He's a donkey. He sucks at poker.
Phil Hellmuth embarrassed himself worse than I ever seen before, during this game! Been watching this guy play Poker for nearly 20 years.
yuup
damn admitting to watching this dude for 20 years is worse than what he did
Imagine that too…. A whole professional career, with thousands of clips of the infamous “Phil mental breakdown” over the course of a tournament or cash game with other pros, and the most embarrassing and horrible he’s ever acted, was playing against some young 20 year olds, who combined have the playing experience of maybe 50 games of poker played, and are all just trying to have fun, play hands, and create good content, and he is acting like they should all know how to play it by the book, and the statistics and odds of every single hand, every single read on “I bet 5k under the gun, and he’s value betting the queen on the river, with a hand he could never possibly be winning” saying that a pro, would have folded because there’s no way Phil would have played his hand like that if all he had was 9s, and a pro would know that and assume that he had a much stronger hand, and he gets mad at an amateur that has no idea about that sort of things (the most mr beast probably knows about poker is what big/small blinds and the button is, who starts betting after each flop turn river, and what hands beat what) and he legit got mad that beast was value betting with a hand that can only win against a bluff…. Like bro, you’re playing as if you are playing pros who know poker inside and out, and that’s where you went wrong….
You are assuming mr beast knows how to read betting situations from what position you’re sitting at for that hand, and “let it go” because you bluffed your way into playing it “perfectly”, saying there’s no way anyone can value bet that, that hand loses to every hand that Phil is representing, like mr beast definitely has no idea what Phil was trying to represent with the way he was betting and played that hand…. He’s a TH-cam mega super star, who’s 23 and rich, he was trying to have fun and make content, he wasn’t worried if he won or lost by the end of the night…. Mr beast wanted the entire table to straddle the entire table, he wanted a 9 man all in pre flop, and Phil is getting super mad because they all weren’t playing it “by the book”….
The only person who was, was durr, even Alan said F it, and decided to just run every single hand basically he had, and just have some fun with it… man was 3 buy ins deep by 20 mins in, lost 1.1m and had the biggest smile out of everyone there, because he knew that it was all for fun, and showing poker to people that may not really know poker all to well, and also to network with a group of young adults making a lot of money by having people watch them play video games and what not…. Alan is a real man with a massive set on him with how he played, and the fact that he did so with a smile the entire night, win lose or split…..
If you noticed, at the end of the night, man whipped out his black card, and instantly payed botez the money he borrowed from her. He’s a real man, while Phil was a crying little twat… which he normally is if he is losing, but it’s just so much worse because it’s against people who legit thought that the blinds raised over time in a cash game…. Expecting them to “play by the book” and getting mad that when they didn’t read the way the hand was played and he lost because HE, didn’t play right (because he was expecting them to play how a pro, or at least an amateur that knows a little more then the basics would play), and instead of adjusting to their play styles, he kept on playing that way, and getting mad at them for him getting smoked on…. Like they all outside of durr were playing like that ALL night long, and he legit didn’t change his play style at all… which honestly, shows that even for a pro, he’s a horrible poker player… if you can’t adjust to play against people who aren’t even amateurs, then you really are only as good as the best book you’ve read and how much of that book that you can memorize….
Really a shame that it was him there…
Like imagine if instead of Phil, they had Daniel Negreanu…. Daniel would have said F it, let’s have some fun, he would have been down to full table straddle and all that… it would have been so much better content wise, but honestly they all wouldn’t have won as much as they did, and Daniel would have probably been on top for most won, while also playing for content, and playing as many hands as possible, but as far as the “awkwardness” that Phil came with, that wouldn’t have happened with Daniel, he would have been high fiving people that made good plays and all that (he was on a televised one, where amateurs, would play against pros and celebrities, and he would always up the amateur whenever they won, even if it was against himself, and even if their play was a terrible play, and they got “lucky”) (i forgot what the show was called- I think it was like poker after dark or something like that) but it was the one where Kevin hart also was playing and he goes “I BLUFFED DANIEL NEGRREANU”. So Daniel has show that he can always be happy even when losing….
God Phil is such a little cry baby twat, and I honestly would be happy if it came out that Phil is barred from playing poker anywhere and everywhere for life, tournaments, cash games, any type of poker, for the rest of his miserable, selfish angry life…
@@danielandree3947 lol ya phil is the crybaby bro
...Which is saying a lot, because this clown is a walking embarrassment. He's never once been anything but. He really had to work this time - it's hard to be an even bigger embarrassment. Well done, Phil. Well done.
Dan Negreanu should’ve been at this table. I’m my opinion the most enjoyable player to watch. Phil Hellmuth plays every game of poker like every penny he owns is on the line every single time. Never seen him have fun or actually enjoy moments unless it benefits him
If Phil is there you should one hundred percent have Daniel he balances him out and can rib him.
he would’ve embarrassed phil 😂😂😂
Tony G would have been hilarious at this event
@@ApexATLcould you imagine? Phil would never dare to try this If Tony was there
True, that's an accurate description
Phil should have agreed to chop evenly and not make Slime pay 5k. I’ve given players who clearly are new to the game there money back when they clearly made an honest mistake, let alone when I contributed to them making the mistake. It’s called being a decent fucking human being.
Preach
I’ve even chopped or ran the board with seasoned players if it’s a clear mistake and it’s all in good fun
I have no opinion on whether or not a chop should have happened or whatever. But Slime is not a player new to the game. He's played a lot of fucking poker over the years.
*their..
@@angelorobledo1536 In the clip the commentator says phil folded the best hand and the guy running the graphic also thought he folded.
"Phil Helmuth cries out in pain as he strikes you"
The best table that has ever existed. Any 1/2 shitreg would be humbled to play at this table. If I was Phil I'd be congratulating everyone on their plays no matter what they did no matter what the outcome. This table is seriously like poker night at a family reunion. The leaning over the table as the cards run out screaming for the card they want. This table is where I want to go after I die
Ye, imagine Negreanu on that table, would have been fun
id show them what a rookie like me can do lol, gotta read poker books!
Best table for someone who's not into poker*
@@ElZedLoL Dnegs would have been teaching and positive the whole time. It would have been fantastic.
I don’t think Phil realizes how rich these guys are xD
Can we talk about what happened after this questionable hand. They ran the cards and Phil would have lost as a 6 came down on river and Phil did normal Phil things and acted like a poker god for getting slime to forfeit his winning hand i think that is another reason everyone is so mad.
Pretty sure 6 was on turn...
@@GotloLuna68 Youre right, everything the guy said is wrong because the card was in the 4th position and not the 5th, good catch dude ! I almost fell for the whole "Phil is a money grabbing spoil sport" thing but as it was the TURN and not the RIVER I will disregard everything the guy said. Youre a smart man !
@@fractal_mind562 Did I say anything else about what he said??? All I said was 6 was on turn and not river....relax there bud
Alec Torreli had his career ruined by less.
@@GotloLuna68 he was commenting on how you being fixated on correcting an irrelevant error has added nothing to the conversation and was better off being left unsaid.
Phil should've known better. He's been playing poker since the 80's, so he should know that moving his cards like that can easily be misinterpreted as a fold by most people. Slime knuckles the table, which should be a clear indicator that he thought the hand was over. Phil should've caught on to that, but he didn't. It may not have been an intentional angle, but it's sure as hell a scummy move by him.
He berated Botez for calling an all-in with A9 then acts like he would have called on the fold hand 🤦♂️
Not an angle, but he did all the things between the lines to get the other player to make a mistake and then solved it badly.
Look how he motions his finger as if to say "turn your cards over"... He knew exactly what he was doing.
Wow that finger of Phill says it all for me 14:49-14:51. He was like ''bruh turn over your cards please.'' This was a clear angle for me.
No, he was talking to someone else. He was letting them see his cards. The hand flip was telling them they can look at his cards.
Phil and slime aren't facing each other. Phil is looking at someone else and having a conversation at the other side of the table.
From the other side of the table and not hearing what they are saying, it looked like a fold. But Phil was just letting someone else see his cards.
21:30 He is clearly taking advantage of someone who doesn't know he can call the floor to make a decision on this kind of issue. Any player who often play live knows you call the floor in this situation and the fact that Phil never recommends this speaks volumes.
They were never calling the floor in this game man.
@@kurtiskrejci723 your reply added 0 value or substance 0/10
@@kurtiskrejci723 exactly but Phil, as the player with most poker experience, should've called the floor, instead of trying to fix a situation in which he is involved and clearly in the wrong.
It's clearly taking advantage of a rec who doesn't know any better and it gives poker a bad name. Because why would recs(fishes) play with any pro player if this is how they behave??
If he calls the floor slime would lose he folderñd. If he folds he loses all. Learn to play noob
@@kurtiskrejci723 Not true they did call floor at least once.
This video is gold. I'm so glad you're commenting on this. Doug, you're a bright spot in the poker community.
The Poker Brat shit was cute 30 years ago
are you gonna blow Doug?
Lol this video cracked me up so much.
"A scumbag that owes people money"
Doug did a good job here, this was all obv and nothing new here. IMO not gold at all, Standard at best.
Imo what is important is that this is the state of poker, PH is allowed to be the spokesman and is just so bad. Why is it that the worst of poker makes the best content. Poker has a huge huge image problem. We have so many amazing people in poker fucking use them and let the game play out. The best game ever streamed had three bad poker elite reps and they sucked. The stream was gold bc it was not focused on tired scummy poker pros, who are bad for the game of poker.
@@tienken1 What is “gold” is the fact that Doug is making a point to shine a light on exactly the things you’re saying.
Doug is spot on, clearly. The fact that is is obvious is the worst part about it. If it is so obvious why aren’t there more poker content creators talking about it? Maybe they are and I’m just missing it, which is totally possible.
Nonetheless, props to Doug for actually doing it.
I feel bad for Alexandra there, she was so happy and then Phil comes in and literally changes her whole mood
don't worry about her. She's a smart, successful young woman - it will take a lot more than Hellmouth to kill her vibes.
She's good Phil's jealous he can't beat her in poker and can't get a date with her double upset
She’s autistic
Alexandra and all the streamers there found Phil’s raging hilarious apparently.
It was literally free content . Having Phil there made the watch good because everyone watching the collective streams had the perfect sleazy bad guy to collectively dislike . And he lost money. It was perfect.
I love when they're all shouting and laughing, talking about what everyone needs to win, and you can hear Phil mumbling in the background to himself "How in the hell does she go all in..." @ 7:06
"I dont know Phil, I have another A-9 and I'm feeling lucky" from Botez & "I'm not gonna reward you for waiting until you have a great hand and all-inning pre-flop" from Beast are just insane needles. Phil just putting overtime in the salt mines all game is a great thing to see.
When it comes to the main part of the video, I dont know if Phil was purposefully angling, but he certainly should've realized that he should've made some kind of verbal announcement or in another way made it clear to Slime a player he knew is a rec, that he wasnt folding his hand. Because phil knows in most casinos forward motion past the betting line is a fold. But i still dont know if Phil did it on purpose, he just was being empty head Phil because of the table.
Botez and beast’s needles were 👌👌
An even better one was when just the next hand Mr. beast was all in on the flop vs slime and asked Phil how he can cheat his way out of this one. 😂
I don't think the fold or not matters. What matters is his behavior after. This was supposed to be a friendly game and the little penalty afterward was pathetic behavior.
i think Phil realized that slime misread it mid way through and then did the hand motion thing. he didn't fold necessarily but he played into the fact that the bad players may think he did, bad angle imo
Phil folded and then when he realized there was confusion and he could take it back you could see it click in his mind and he could suddenly do a do over.
I love how Jimmy (Mr Beast) was just constantly giving Phil shit toward the end for being bad at poker.
Phil really did stop emotionally developing once he hit 5. Holy shit that explains everything about his behavior
People with narcissistic personality disorder really do stop developing emotionally at a very young age
@@memotype Isnt Phils wife a psychologist? Lmao. Why the fuck would she date someone with npd? Did Phil have fame and money when they met?
i like when he would wear hockey jerseys
@@memotype im not trying to be mean when I say this...or offensive....but is it possible Phil is on the spectrum? I think it's 100% safe to say he's inherently a narcissistic animal...but.... some of his actions, lack of self awareness in past shows, his cringe at times like rapping and singing (goes back to lack of self awareness) could it be possible hes truly on some sort of spectrum?
@@seankiesling2054 Everything you've described also easily falls within NPD. I mean, of course it's possible he's on the spectrum, but none of those things demonstrates that he is.
Phil has never been a good loser, but he absolutely HATES it when he loses to someone going against the odds. His mind can't even begin to comprehend the idea that poker has an element of luck that can beat his knowledge and experience at any time.
I would have ruled Phil's hand is dead as he folded. Cards went over the betting line in a forward motion, that he's passing said cards to someone to see them is meaningless. Fold actions are binding, and it's not as if Phil immediately stated he didn't fold when it was clear people at the table thought he folded, instead, he tried to game the system. It's selfish and dumb.
Clear fold hand was dead
Agreed. He was facing aggressive action and pushed them forward. Phil shouldn't be showing his cards anyway while his hand is still live.
No he didn't fold. He pushed his cards forward because Tom or Mr B said they wanted to see his cards and the camera angle was terrible. Like I said before to many people, you have a dealer at the table and you have Tom dwan and then Keating who are both high-stakes poker pros and not one of them said that Phil folded his hand.
In a normal game, its a folding action. This was a shitshow of a game. The proper way would have been keep the 5k each in the pot and run it.
@@roba4139 all he did was move his cards out of the camera angle that's it. Two people asked to see his cards that's why he moved it away from his stack. Like I said you have a dealer at one of the best casinos in Vegas and three high stakes poker pros and not one of them said it was a fold. I'm sure it could look like that to maybe someone who's not so experienced but that's on them.
Phil is such a dbag! Doug I gotta say thank you to you and Brad for being cool people. I grew up watching Daniel and Phil and Doyle and Mattisow and I just thank you and Brad and Andrew and all the new guns coming up for providing better content then people like Phil.
Dude, shut up
They should have put Dnegs and Phil Ivey on this table. Or Dnegs and Mikki
dnegs won't travel
Brad Owen or Andrew neeme, or even Doug would have been a waaaay better shout though over helmuth
EDIT: didn't mean to sound condescending to Doug, just that Owen and neeme are active TH-camrs at the table right now.
@@mrjack123 I just feel like they need some legacy guys in there. Even putting on Phil Laak would have been cool. Idk I just think you need have a mix of the legacy guys and new guys
Ludwig not afraid to needle hellmuth about being unable to buy in for more lol absolutely hilarious
ROFL i had to watch it back to see it, but DAMNNNNN ego must hurt a little
he said something along the lines of "i know a guy named negreanu if you need some more $" ....fucking boss line lol
@@d4ba19 please drop the time stamp I missed that and I would love to hear that and laugh my ass off
@@d4ba19 loool genius
Bless Mr. Beast's heart tipping 10k to the dealer
Imagine getting close to a third of the average persons income just as a tip? That is the sort of moment you realize that there is poor, regular, upper middle class, rich, wealthy and then you have people who play with monopoly money.
All while he was simultaneously letting an employee sent p*rn to minors and hiring a sex offender. What a great guy!
I can't count how many times Hustler live streams have had situations where strong floor intervention was needed, and the floor stayed completely out of it, leaving fish, recs, and non-native-English speakers to fend for themselves. They suck, and don't deserve to be the venue of choice for live streams like this one.
I think that if I were the dealer, or playing in that game, I would have called the floor. And if I were the floor, I would have given Phil two choices: To say that his cards were dead because he folded. Or to say that his cards were dead because he violated the "1 player to a hand" rule. He had absolutely no right to pass his cards to another player and see their reaction (regardless of whether Dwan did his best not to react).
If he didn't want to choose, I would simply rule that his hand was dead because he surrendered control of his cards, and that it didn't matter whether he intended to have the dealer muck them or have Dwan look at them. He released them before otherwise acting, or making any verbal declaration of what he was doing, so releasing them as he did became his action, FOLD.
Last but not least, when Slime tapped the table believing the hand was over, if Hellmuth believed his hand was still live and he still had a right to act, he needed to immediately say "I did NOT fold, my cards are still live, and I still have to act." His failure to do so, and in fact seeming to encourage Slime to show his winning hand, was the point where I think Phil crossed the line from an innocent mistake, to shooting an angle. I'm met Phil in person several times, and know he's not a bad guy, but he needs to take responsibility for what he did here. Whether or not he was TRYING to shoot an angle, his actions DEFINITELY served well to shoot an angle, and furthermore, he knew full well how to prevent that from happening, the second that slime tapped the table and thought the hand was over.
And that is still going too easy on Phil. He needs to simply never be invited to play with anyone but 100% hardened pros. His berating of others, especially of Botez for calling him with a better hand than him, and his extensive use of the f bomb (especially with a woman at the table) is simply not acceptable. He's a poker anti-ambassador, a detriment to the game. I don't care how good a tournament player he is, that is not a reason to tolerate behavioral problems at the poker table.
You clearly don't watch this stream or you would know the one person per hand rule don't apply. There isnt a floor guy watching the game for them to "come intercept a ruling" and to say "they need to not be allowed to host big games is a joke. Ryan the co-owner is the reason the game came together. You think shit just magically forms? No hard work, hours of networking goes into putting lineups together. Take your know it all attitude and criticize other streams HCL is at the top.
"Phil you do this for a living?".... Priceless needle!
I liked the part where Phil repeated himself explaining how he was the best player on planet earth and was having his best year ever but for some reason could only buy in for 50k at a time
He got silent real quick there, didn't he? (When Ludwig asked why he couldn't buy in for more.)
Hmmm… that’s what he always does
This is the first time he buys in that big outside of hsp. Normally when he turn up at latb he bought in like 10k lmao
@@californiaplant-basedeater2761 THought it was ludwig who asked too but upon further review, credit goes to Jimmy (Mr.Beast)
Tbh shortstacking is a known thing and frowned upon online. It gives him a bigger edge when short. An example especially in this game is, he could get his whole stack in 3/4 ways and by the river end up heads up. So he gets 3-4x the money while only having to beat one hand. Due to the craziness of the game and how big the stacks were getting. Also, Phil is just a fucking nit.
“Now the dealer has to super hard sweat a queen” lmao I’m still laughing from that line
Phil is a prime example of what’s wrong with live cash games these days. Good players trying to talk shit to the fish and scare them away when in reality he should be congratulating them and trying to get them to stay as long as possible.
I see it every time I play live. There’s 1-2 people who think they are the shit and feel the need to talk down on the fish causing them to leave and it kills tables for no reason. People even talk shit after someone looses a buy in and are thinking if they should buy back or not. Simply say nice hand! Or unlucky and have them run to the atm and comeback. Instead of killing their mood and causing them to leave.
Wym everyone there was clowning Phil the whole night and he didn't even win at the end of it
FACTS!!!
Yes, so many players are weak and feel the need to talk themselves up to overcome their feelings of inadequacy.
Phil knows he can't win in a cash game unless he angles or upsets or taunts or somehow throws people off their games.
@@jaybm1560 not my point
It's because with the internet and social media players aren't playing for money anymore, they play for narcissistic reasons.
People just don't know how to stfu anymore.
We should only allow Phil to play if Tony G is there. Tony G's "I own you Phil!!!" is one of the best roasts in any sports history.
Yeah, Tony "of course I lied" G. is the right man to keep Phil in check.
its time for you to retire, as he hovers over him walking away was such an a** hole move, but cuz it was Phil, beautifully done
Ludwig saying "why can't you buy in more" shut him down so hard 😂😂
Guy got taken to the bank by a bunch of video game streamers who had wya bugger pockets than him.
Phil is legendarily bad at cash games at his skill level. It isn’t surprising lol
@@Icannottolerateit he has 16 bracelets how did he even do that if he's bad? I'm not saying he's good but it just surprised me he had so many
@@kilianbauer3942 lol lots of word salad without even giving a good answer - congrats!
WSOP bracelets does not equal cash games. Lol dneg has said many many many times why phil ivey is goat compared to helmuth, because helmuth is garbage at cash games, where Real high stakes poker is played.@@jvw8129
They're not bracelets for Cash games.@@jvw8129
I think Phil really underestimated how smart these creators are. Botez is a god damn chess Master, Mr. Beast is a marketing genius, Lud is a very good chess player and former pro Smash player, xQc is a serial gambler so he knows his way around a poker game.
And yet Phil treats them like they’re some one hit wondera who got famous on TH-cam by sheer luck
I love how everyone there treats him like the annoying old man they wish wasnt there
Because he is
Because he is
Because he is
Because he is
Because he is.
"I don't think YOU should be punished for folding your hand."
The temerity of Phil. Slime was ALL-IN.
Doug should of showed what happened afterwards the board ran out with a 6 and he would of lost the pot.
Agreed! The guy was all-in and Phil motioned for the guy to reveal his hand after he'd released his own. That only makes sense if Phil has intended to fold.
for narcissists it is never their fault
Phil could learn a thing or two things from Gman on fish etiquette lol.
Yeah, if he had class, he wouldn't bother with antics at this table because they aren't needed. Mr. Beast was literally just going all in every other hand he was in.
Tom Dwan read the table right and just used his energy to read people.
Sadly I have to side with Phil on this at 6:47 it shows they were playing like idiots… there is no excuse for ignorance and treating something that might not be as important to you like a joke… however !!! Calling with a9 is fine and brilliant call
Whether you like Hellmuth or not, this was SUPER scummy by him. Angling (intended or not), Freerolling the hand, charging a 5k tax, and then telling Slime that he gave him a “good deal”. Sheesh. No wonder poker (and poker players) have such a bad reputation. The long term EV of Hellmuth either just splitting the pot, or running out the cards for what was in the middle would have been enormous. But no. Hellmuth being who he is he had to take advantage of the poor kid.
His berating of the other players most certainly is SUPER scummy!!
Indeed....he's a piece of work lol. Always has been.
And when they ran it out, Slime would have won with two pair. So Phil scammed him out of the pot AND an extra $5000. Unbelievable.
Doug, I always respect your analysis and appreciate you commenting on this. The reason I think I still interpret this as an angle is because after Phil “passes his cards” over the betting line, he sees the other guys reaction and then motions for him to turn his cards over as if to say “show me what you had.” The player then does that and Phil says “Oh, I didn’t fold.” Given the way it looked (looked like a fold to me and the commentators even say “Phil folds the best hand!”), the other player’s reaction, AND Phil telling the other guy to show his hand there’s no way (imo) that Phil’s hand should be live. But I agree with you, if they do let his hand remain live then there should be no more money going into the middle and both player’s hands should be live. Phil would’ve actually lost that hand on a runout, which is exactly why he went with the “penalty” option to ensure he won. Disgraceful.
Tom was asking if he could show the table, Phil was saying it was okay to show and announced what he had. All an honest misunderstanding.
Phil should have been honest with himself, if he was going to call then chop, if he was going to fold them give slime the pot
Let me ask you this. After thousands of live hands on TV, 40 years of poker, why did Phil choose this one hand to shoot an angle? It's really ridiculous if you think of it. You really believe he told the guy to show his hand and then pretended he never folded? On live TV? Why did he wait 40 years to do it?
@@GeraldGruenigMedia1 Because he didn't wait 40 years to do it. Phil tries to do what he can to make money or prevent himself from losing money. th-cam.com/video/DBEGjAXzqoY/w-d-xo.html Look at this clip from early in Phil's career with the hand starting at 9:01. Phil blatantly lies about his action - luckily the floor wasn't having it. I do acknowledge that Phil's record of angleshooting is pretty pristine overall, but he's not above it. That coupled with all of the abuse he's verbally dealt players over the years (calling them idiots, morons, berating them for play when he loses even if it's a standard spot, saying every curse word under the sun when he loses (and sometimes directed at other players), etc. I respect the bracelets he's won and while this isn't a 100% clear-cut angle, based on all the evidence and the totality of the circumstances I still believe it was one.
@@jamesalexander5025 damnn.. You destroyed him😂
Phil is a horrendous ambassador for poker. Really wish they had had Garrett play instead
That would've been great. I bet he would've said something to Phil if he was at that table.
he would have cleaned up!
@@lyserg1k What makes you think that? That’s what everyone said was going to happen with Phil and Tom, especially Tom, and even slightly with Alan. And we all know how that turned out.
That said, he would have been astronomically a better fit in that group than Phil. But then again, just about anyone would.
Garrett would have totally wrecked the game.
I think they should have selected Phil Galfond..
@Duncan Donut Donut who cares, you already have the draw of all the biggest people on the platform. Goal should be to put together the best group for a historically great game.
Doug, You are very spot on in your discuss about this video. Good to listen to a person, such as you who has etiquette and isn't an asshole. You are in it to win, but you are considerate and thoughtful of others and where they are at in the game.
Just watched ludwigs stream. He said that he and everyone at the table just thought Phil was funny and they enjoyed roasting him. However, to Ludwig and other creators, this game doesn’t mean anything for their profession. The impact of the poker community does not apply to them. Despite other players not being bothered by hellmuths antics, hellmuth failed to see that he was representing the entire poker community. Millions of non poker players likely watched this event to watch their favorite content creators play, only to see that the poker community is represented by a self centered egoistical man who berates other people. This looks terrible for the poker community as it rejects new players from wanting to enter if they believe Phil represents poker players as a whole. Overall really bad look for hellmuth and for poker.
Let the record show I absolutely loved this stream and thought the entire thing was hilarious and them needling Phil and him getting mad was hilarious. Still a bad look though
He’s been doing this forever though. For some reason, many organizers in the community seem to want this from Phil as it creates some form of nostalgia from poker’s bigger days. Personally, to me, Phil’s antics have run their course and just aren’t entertaining anymore. I don’t even think he’s serious. He’s just playing a character. One that no one cares about anymore.
He picked the worst target too, of all the people at that table, Slime isn't a millionaire streamer.
not a bad look for him or poker lol get real
They should’ve had Garrett instead
@@PIP-zf9yb nah you’re tripping Phil is a sore loser. Learn to handle a loss like an adult. He gets mad that not everyone plays poker “the right way” aka his way… that’s what makes poker so great is how versatile players can be
You doing videos like this make big stories feel big glad we ramping up for wsop with you being involved
He doesn’t know who u r tho
@@user-cc5tx8dz2u he definitely knows who Ryan depaulo is. Who doesn’t!
Parkour!!
Seeing my favorite poker content creator comment on my third favorite poker content creator’s video 👀
DePaulo do a video on your opinion on Phil hellmuth and this session, people would love your input
I don't care if Phil was angling or not. THAT WAS A FOLD.
No it wasn’t- Dwan was asking to see his hand. In this informal game, it’s not a fold.
@@crypastesomemore8348 according to Phil and his fanboys. If you isolate the clip of him throwing his cards well over the line it’s a fold 100 out of 100 times.
Put it this way if my buddy is on the opposite side of the table can just toss my cards to him unannounced let him have a peak??? Of course not. He should have kept a finger on the cards and pushed them to dean if anything.
100000% agree
@@crypastesomemore8348 Oh really? If that wasn't a fold.....then what is a fold????
It became an angle when he motions for “dwan” to flip his hand while staring at slime, he is looking in the same direction moments later while talking to slime. Why stare at the amateur while motioning for DWAN to flip over YOUR hand? He could have told dwan to flip it verbally. He could have flipped over his own damn hand. He was staring at slime and he knows what it looks like when someone is about to show their hand. Hellmuth had a lapse in judgement and was being a bitter loser
🤣 your commentary on this was F*ckin EPIC 🥳🥳🥳
I had been working as a poker dealer for a long time. and in this "angle shooting hand" phil got very lucky that the dealer or floor didnt rule his hand as being dead. In my casino where i was working a hand is dead on several occasions. First: you are not allowed to share the hand with any other player or the hand is dead. Second: If you flip the hand before the last action took place, the hand is dead and last but not least the hand is dead when you show a clear folding motion which Phil did.
Because this is a celebrity game and for entertainment purposes more so than serious,the rules were fairly stretched for it,players could show other players their cards and they did it all the time.phil just took the game too seriously because he's a professional clown
I agree with casinos that go by the "one player to a hand" rule, so when Phil intentionally shows his hand to Tom, Phil's hand becomes dead. Ruling otherwise would allow players able to get advice from other players, players who have seen their own cards, so that even if their advice is only in the form of non-verbal cues or reactions, this sharing of hands would mean that the sharing players would be essentially playing as a group rather than acting individually. I believe that this action is a subtle form of collusion. Thus, Phil's hand should be considered mucked as soon as he deliberately shows the hand to another player, especially when he hands over his cards to another player and then takes the cards back. Any legit casino should muck Phil's hand.
in CASH games, you can show anyone who doesn't have a hand anymore your cards. While i obv haven't played everywhere in the US, I have played alot of US casinos. There is no such thing as a dead hand after showing your cards in a cash game.
Now poker TOURNAMENTS is where the rules get real strict
@@DL-it5jg how is that fair? you can show other players your hole cards and get their reaction? does not seem fair at all.
@@ryantraniam you're not allowed to influence action in a hand where you folded.. so if I folded and a guy showed me his cards.. if I openly said anything, to either him or whoever he is up against, I would be heavily penalized...
also if I made any obvious gestures as well
If its a 9 handed table and 2 people are up against each other on the river.. and one guy bets... the guy with last action could literally lay his cards face up to the whole table before making a decision.. people usually do that to maybe get some info out of the guy who bet, to see his reaction etc
No where I've played where we can show hands. Why would I want to jeopardize my position because a non-player gives a tell?
@@wjatube if you're the last possible action it doesn't matter. It's heads up and slime is all in. Phil showing his hand doesn't give an advantage, Slime can't double all in. All cash games allow this, it's common on poker streams alllll the time.
This has been one of your best takes Doug. Captured what the dynamic of the table and read situation with Phil( deffs not an angle shoot, but just the worst possible way to deal with the situation) If any friends or colleagues acted like this they would not be invited back or respected.
Great breakdown.
Dude he should get invited back. The drama is great and he let him take 5K instead of all in
It became an angle when he motions for “dwan” to flip his hand while staring at slime, he is looking in the same direction moments later while talking to slime. Why stare at the amateur while motioning for DWAN to flip over YOUR hand? He could have told dwan to flip it verbally. He could have flipped over his own damn hand. He was staring at slime and he knows what it looks like when someone is about to show their hand. Hellmuth had a lapse in judgement and was being a bitter loser
I agree the floor manager should have been called. The amateur player completed his action and went all in. Phil Hellmuth pushed his cards forward in a motion that looked like folding. So, it should have been called a fold. Amateur player wins the pot. If it was not a fold, then the decision is to Hellmuth. He would likely call, since he is ahead in the hand. Amateur wins on the runout. Either way, the Amateur should have won.
Alex is a genuinely good person with a good head on her shoulders. You can tell she was really nervous about these huge pots. I don't think she's a "natural" gambler in the sense that it thrills her to bet on things and, while her channel does pretty well, I doubt she has the kind of "fuck it" money that Mr. Beast or Allan do for example. So that was a huge night for her all around.
I think Phil is good for streams like this though because he makes it really easy to pull against him. That's important for entertaining competitions. When he loses, it's just that more entertaining. As for his needling Alex, people might not know that online chess is filled with trash talk way worse than anything said at that table and she gives as good as she gets.
There is not that much trash talking in online chess lmao
Alex gave as good as she got sure, but it still isn't nice to see Phil berating a funny nice person who's just there to have fun. Alex took it like a champp though and made a sweet profit, bet she's laughing all the way to the bank
yea i have mixed feelings cause i think hellmuth is good for entertainment but i dont like how he berated a casual amateur lmao. but if alex dont care then i dont care either lmfao. i think daniel negreanu would be perfect for the table. good w casual amateurs and also can be the focal point for hellmuth's berating lmao
She has plenty of money lol
@@henrymccoy2306 If the players can communicate with each other at all, whether online or not, casual blitz games are definitely known for trash talk.
th-cam.com/video/GoaC6mXpsto/w-d-xo.html
Phil was behaving like an insolent child in front of an audience that poker seldom gets. I know that's Phil being Phil, but he definitely hurt the game and looked like a jackass in the process.
Phil also berated a dealer after the "fold" incident too, mostly because he was losing. Joey was in the booth for this game, and he would have been a way better ambassador for the game, let alone Doug or Garret.
@Duncan Donut Donut ahh yes, the controversial position that police shouldn't arbitrarily execute people of color. You're right, concern for others isn't a good look. Nice self-report, hog.
i immediately found it funny that he got salty when she litterally had the superiour hand at the start, she didnt just get lucky at the river she had him beat out the gate
Feels like he was encouraging the guy to turn his hand over with that little hand gesture. He wouldn't encourage that unless he was folding (or an angle shooter). Since he did, feels like he was intending to fold. That being said, I think the rules in Cali and this casino would declare his hand still live at this point. I think they should have both talked equally (not just Phil telling him what to do) and ultimately agreed to just run it for the $5k they each put in. Ironically Phil would've lost (6 on the turn).
Agreed !! His hand gesture said it ALL - Phil was definitely folding .
Makes me so mad , dude
John Little explains this.. Someone looked at phils hand and Tom said "show one, show all" and to confirm.. Phil asked you want me to turn my hand up (with the gesture)?
It was all an honest mistake. Tom wanted to see the cards, then he wanted to flip them over, Phil was just being social and letting him do that. From Slime's POV though easy to see why he thought it was a fold and showed his cards
The alleged angle shot was 100x more forgivable than how he was treating Alexandra Botez the whole night. Seriously uncomfortable to watch.
Yeah honestly props to botez for being able to needle back, but after 4 hours of complaining about the same hand im surprised no one told him to get the fuck over it
@Duncan Donut Donut pretty sure she didn't say it in that context, she said that when Phil asked her what kidna hand she had.
No the angle was one the worst things I’ve ever seen in poker. He robbed that kid of the pot after the kid completely outplayed him.
This. Making a female goddess with a vagina mildly uncomfortable is the worst sin a man could ever commit!
@@9Greyskies completely outplayed him?? lol, tell me you don't really understand poker without telling me...
I’ve been watching Phil Hellmuth play for over 20 years. I’ve never called him the Poker brat, I always call him the poker crybaby 😿
I never understood the "brat" title - there's nothing bratty about it, other than maybe feeling like he's constantly entitled to winning
This is why Tony G should be sitting at every table Phil is at. Imagine the tirade Tony would have blasted Phil with after seeing that folding nonsense.
He knows he's in a game he can get away with some sketchy stuff, so he chose to do that. Be honest: you don't want to say it, but he did that on purpose. Not for even a split second does he consider that he messed up. He knows instantly EXACTLY what has happened, he doesn't have to ask questions to decipher what has gone wrong. Guilty.
Slow it down and you'll see Dwans hand reaching from the left Only After this did Phil react and slide his cards directly into his incoming hand. Now unlucky dude 2 seats behind and watch Phil's head. pointed towatds The Opposite side of the table the whole. Phil makes the hand gesture listen after u hear show us and be4 he gets his cards back. he was agreeing to flip his cards and show the table he's all in there's no more betting he's allowed to do this. The commentator says Phil gave his hand to dwan and flipped it which is PERFECTLY Fine at a cash game. this was a complete misunderstanding not planned he reacted to Dwan
The other 2 pros at the table were in agreement that slime was in the wrong and that phil should offer him a deal. I cant imagine that they were in on it, it was pretty plainly a misunderstanding, although Phil was a bit of a prick about it.
I can’t help myself. Another thing that stood out was that Phil Hellmuth was really using a ridiculous amount of profanity. I’m all for freedom of speech, but in a game as fun as this one ,where everybody was having a good time winning and losing…and the most knowledgeable player at the table was being angry and aggressive and not friendly or fun like everybody else. Phil made himself a really bad example of how a Poker PROFESSIONAL should EVER act. Phil is bad for business and bad for the poker industry and I’m not exactly sure why he would be invited on any Poker show ever again.
It's crazy to watch Phil Helmuth going off on Mr. Beast, who is arguably one of the nicest people in the world! Way to go Phil, you always make yourself look bad
Right? I'm not really a fan of Mr. Beast (though I certainly don't dislike him), but no one can deny he's a nice guy. He's also extremely generous with his money...unlike Phil.
i thought michael jackson was one of the nicest people in the world
@@rshawn4303 Are you saying that Mr. Beast is a pedo?
Yeah cause fill mum boomed
@@rshawn4303 what are you suggesting?
This is 2 years old but still applies. Hell Smooch has no way to validate his life except for winning at poker. Its not the money its the winning . He could never play another hand and not have money problem. His wife is a doctor at Stanford psychiatry.
She can't treat her own family but she could recommend someone.
I actually saw this stream show up in my feed and was like, “no way!” got really excited to watch and proceeded to see Hellmuth ruin the entire show. He was constantly trying to ‘big bro’ everyone at the table and is genuinely just an ass, ruined what should have been a great show for the poker community to grow from.
he had a bad influence on the game but the whole stream was absolutely awesome. Really fun people and tons of action.
@@MrSimonvk definitely some spots i found enjoyment throughout, however it was just hard to ignore phil’s antics throughout the stream. VPIP’s were through the roof but still couldn’t help but pay attention to the drama phil caused
That looks like a fold to me. I thought pushing your cards forward past the betting line was always a fold. Otherwise you should have to verbalize it.
I've been a dealer and dual rate for more than 10 years now, if the floor gets called over there's a few ways it could go down.
1. The forward motion past the betting line could be percieved as a fold and phil surrenders the pot, this is pretty unlikely though.
2. Slime makes a stink about phil passing his cards to dwan in the first place because it's a clear violation of one player per hand and phil's hand is declared foul due to possible collusion. This in my opinion would be totally reasonable.
3. It's clear that the cordial atmosphere is willing to let phil and tom's shenanigans go unpunished and slime surrenders the pot while getting to take back his all-in bet without that questionable 5k penalty. This is the most likely scenario.
Rulings like this depend greatly on the house and supervisor
@@arudeboyandaskalar7277 Slime was definitely pissed off, you can tell by his demeanor but he held it in because he didn't want to make a big fuss about it on TV.
That is DEFINITELY chucking your hand
@@johnv5827 Yeah, there's several reasons why players shouldn't show their cards to anyone or pass them around like that. I've accidentally slid hands into the muck as a dealer before because of this kind of thing. Phil and Tom ought to know better.
At least the creators apparently had a fun time roasting him, especially since he was losing. On one stream, it can be a fun gimmick to have a total lolcow tryhard who thinks he's the best but who just dumps money, but I wonder if the fans or players would get tired of this if he participated in these games more and more. Because a good part of the poker community certainly did.
Even though he berated people and was annoying, I think it was better than some crusher coming in, playing perfect poker, and walking away with a million profit. This game really had a great outcome despite some uncomfortable stuff from Phil
@@asdsdasdasd4612 There are plenty of cash game players other than phil who would have been happy to loosen up and have some fun.
Underrated comment.
Yeah like garret would have been awful on this game imo. I think guys like Keating and maybe Jackie who like to f around and take chances are perfect for this though
@@jsl2411 it's very tough for high stake gto bots to beat this game, its like trying to beat a 25 cent game
Curious as to why the floor didn’t step in. In any poker room you go ahead and shove your cards over the line on the table and back off from them, that’s clearly a fold. Phil really took advantage of Slime’s naiveness and in honesty he should’ve known better and called the floor over to rule in Slime’s favor.
Keating got demolished but he was a class act despite his losses
When you’re worth a hundred mil you can brush those off
@@FlippersTF2 Phil isn't worth hundred mil? I don't watch Poker regularly
literally the calmest I've ever seen someone after losing $900k+ on a stream
@@MelonWaterMelon777 he wasn’t talking about Phil…🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@FlippersTF2 hes worth 15
They could have invited literally anyone to this game to represent the game. Dnegs, Garret, Berkey, anyone, instead they invited the most delusional entitled prick in poker. What an embarrassment, instead of making poker fun and putting it in good light, he's embarrassing himself and makes other poker players look bad, it's cringy af.
garret and berkey would have taken this game to seriously which would be no fun. esfandiari would have been a better guest. he brings action.
Phil brings drama hence clicks. It's why I'm here. Haha
Phil was invited to blow up. This is what they wanted.
Inviting Garret would have been absolutely silly. The dude is smashing high stakes players daily, he would eat these kids alive and have zero fun doing it.
You have to invite "Personalities" to the table if you're going to invite pros. Phil went too crazy with the persona here, imo. Didn't read the room. Maybe thought everyone was going to riff off him but people seemed put off/afraid to interact.
The only other people you could really invite to this game would be like... Negs, Laak, Antonio, maybe a Tony G... people like that. If you invite trihards with no personality they just destroy the fish and it doesn't work.
Not that I'm condoning Phil's behaviour.... but having Garret up $1M and everyone down 100-200K at the end of the night isn't a good look for poker, either. Makes it feel like new players can't get involved when a pro is just crushing their souls
You missed a few key points. Hellmuth made a motion to turn over the cards to dwan but slime clearly interpreted it as for him to show. Which is another bad action to add to confusing the situation and inducing slime to think the hand is over. And then in my opinion the biggest grievous act on hellmuth, slime actually pat the table very hard after he thought he had won the hand in response to Phil’s multiple folding motions, which is another easy to interpret action that slime thinks the hand is over. Any real player, and I mean literally anyone would immediately know what slime patting the table hard like that means and would be stumbling over themself to inform that player that the hand isn’t over. Basically hellmuth makes many universally understood fold motions, pushing cards over the line face down somewhat in the direction of the dealer, it’s not like he showed dwan and pulled his hand back, he literally threw his cards across the table also somewhat in the direction of the dealer. Several of those motions are known to be folding motions and in many casinos his hand is actually already folded. Even if not there. But to have the experience that hellmuth has, and to not pick up on the fact that he has so far made confusing misleading motions especially to an amateur, then slime pats the table as if he won, and then hellmuth isn’t in tune with the energy of the moment.
Like this isn’t a regular player vs an amateur. This is bloody Phil hellmuth. We all know the casual presence we constantly present to everyone. But we’re watching like goddamn hawks, and calculating every moment and interpreting everything. This is Phil hellmuth, it’s not like he just casually was like, geee I didn’t realize all the messed up things I just did, and I’m also going to somewhat not notice your actions or body language which is clearly telegraphing that you think the hand is over. Oh what? What no I didn’t fold, why did you turn your cards over? That would never happen in a million years vs true world class players. Nope not ever. Way too much to gloss over and play dumb on. He’s bloody Phil hellmuth, his awareness is a bit higher than the average player.
I don’t think he initially did all those actions to setup the angle, but I do think he stumbled into it, and played dumb and at the last moment when he clearly knew that slime thought the hand was over, he did play dumb and allowed it to happen. There’s no explanation, there really isn’t it. I don’t believe hellmuth was that out of tune with reading his opponent. I mean according to his story he’s facing an all in and trying to get a read from an amateur? And his read didn’t pick up on the hand pat or body language?
People seem to not be saying much about the hand gesture. That was the worst part of this whole thing I though. Pretty much telling him to turn his cards over.
As someone who has watched a lot of poker and slime, Slime has played a decent amount of poker and is in no way new to the game. Slime interpreting phils move as a fold wasnt just a beginner’s mistake it was someone who has hundreds of hours playing poker seeing cards move towards the dealer essentially impossible for slime to not think it was a fold
Wrong. he didnt motion dwan to turn the cards, he LOOKED over at slime and motion him to turn over his cards. Why would Dwan turn over Hellmuths cards at that point? No action was taken yet, and if it was it was Phil folding. Such a stupid take Michael.
Agree with the majority of your points, although the camera angle does not show us who Phil is looking at with with his "turn them over" gesture. Often in cash games, once a heads up opponent is all in, the player with the decision is able to turn his cards over to get a read on whether his hand is good or not. This varies from casino to casino of course. IMO What he should have done though, once Slime patted the table and expose his cards, was acknowledge that there was a great deal of ambiguity in what had just happened and propose that the $5K bet and subsequent all-in bet was taken back, with the hand run out with what was in the pot before those actions and both players hands being live.
@@brysonsmith1523 fellow poker and slime enjoyer! I 100% agree with you. That's a big part that Doug missed as well. Slime has played literally 100s of hours of poker and describes himself as a casino rat. Michael points out that the hand thumping the table would be interpreted by nearly any human being as thinking you'd won. I think if Slime were in Phil's shoes, he would've seen them thump and instantly corrected them to make sure they knew they hand wasn't over yet
You can't invite Phil Hellmuth and not expect him to be Phil Hellmuth
everyone but Phil made this fun to watch
If a chip crosses the threshold, it's a call. If the cards cross the threshold, it's a 100% fold.
Not until he states "fold", or, the dealer mucks the hand. Just as a single chip can call, but not until it is stated "call".
@@MrLgmurphysr And a rap on the table is not a check until stated "check", right? Come on...
I love how Doug never holds back. Ever.
Gotta love Doug, always delivers!
Sense of humour: 10/10
Blazer: 10/10
Hair: 10/10
Poker Analysis: 10/10
Poker Channel: 10/10
Black leather couch: 4/10
Any casino I've ever played in that counts as a fold. I know Phil Helmuth did not do it on purpose, but he has probably been playing so long at a privileged level that he does not even think twice about it. Now if the roles were reversed, I can't imagine how mad Helmuth would be
For real. Sending your hand across the table for another player to look at? That's dead. I guess since it's a meet up game it *could* be different...but looked very folded.
I was watching this live and I said to myself "he folded" and then he put us all in the twilight zone. Nina said you folded? And he said "yes I have A 9" he knew he lied that's why he immediately defended him getting a "pretty good deal"
As someone that isn't really a fan of poker, but has watched a bit of WSOP back in the early 2000's, I'm pretty sure Phil was invited because of his outbursts and frustration. Gamers like watching people rage and get upset at bad rng, so Phil was a huge amount of free and easy content for them. He does kind of make poker players look bad, but most non-poker fans who were watching don't care anyways.
The whole 'fake fold' thing didn't even seem like a big deal at the time anyway. If anything the streamers periodically joked about the situation and how upset it was making some people, which circles back to the whole free content / viewers enjoying rage and controversy.
Check out high stakes poker if you get bored, a good old series that is more entertaining than WSOP imo
Phil is so funny. Blows my mind how he expects these amateurs to understand his range and then get pissed when they don’t play “according to how they should”
Yeah, like I'll give it to him that just because you're a pro, it doesn't mean you can just steamroll anyone you want at any time, especially very loose players, so the stack sizes and stuff I can forgive, I mean this isn't Rounders.
But he also went in sweaty when it's very clearly just a super trumped up home game, lol.
Phil was beyond embarrassing here. He was acting like a clown this whole time. He should have just sat back and had fun with this table. As for the hand in questions. I don't think he purposely was angle shooting, that being said, I think if you get the floor in on it, he moved his cards forward in a folding manner, and they would have told him it was a fold and the pot did not belong to him, so I think Phil shouldn't have charged him a dime, if anything, hes lucky the floor didn't come over and give the whole pot to the other player.
I can believe that he was passing his cards to Dwan so he could look, but like Brett Hanson said on Twitter he absolutely should have at the very least offered to chop the pot or given the guy the whole pot.
Yes. One player to a hand is a thing. The hand should be dead. I can’t show my hand to someone else and possibly get a reaction from them that would imply a fold or a call.
@@sylvainguinepain5624 To be fair not all casinos have the same policy on showing your hand, especially at these high stakes televised games
@@cacox it should be even more enforceable in high stakes games. It’s one thing is you turn your cards over and see what your opponent says or does. It’s an entirely different thing to push your cards in a fold like fashion to another player.
Lot of players push their cards to other players when they fold. Everything about PH body language screams “fold”. Even the commentator announced a fold. And the graphics on screen gave Slime the win. This is just wrong.
@@sylvainguinepain5624 It's an entertainment show more than a proper high stakes game. So the rules are way more loose, and it's more run by "feel", feel being the general table consensus and what the producers think makes for better content.
@@sylvainguinepain5624 Maybe in some more professional setting high cash games but in a situation like this I think they're gonna let the players be pretty loose. They're also all pretty wealthy and probably not very concerned about the amount of money they're playing with and are there to have a good time on steam. I think it's a also worth noting a few other players can be heard saying something like "No he didn't fold" after Slime shows his hand after thinking Phil folded
My issue with Phil has never been how he treats professionals. It's how he treats the recreational players. He's become an embarrassment
That's absolutely untrue, you've clearly never watched the guy once in your life
I know the videos old now but as a tournament director myself, and someone who’s played for over 20 years, I find what Phil did absolutely disgusting. Even at a table of seasoned pros I think he shouldn’t have acted this way. Floor should’ve been called but also, demanding $5k and forfeiting of hand is abhorrent. Maybe match Phil’s bet and play out rest of hand with no more betting, imo, would’ve been the most ‘sportsmanly’ of outcomes - he just didn’t want to split / lose after seeing he was winning - not the way to play, Phil.
100% agree with Doug. 1) floor should had been called 2) they should just continue run the board with no action or run it twice for the all in.
I remember i was playing for a 6k pot, my opponent got excited, slam his cards which jumped and hit the floor (which makes it a dead hand at my local casino). i looked at the hand realize we are chopping it, let him had his other half of the pot.
That would of been a very foolish move by you, if it really happen, which I doubt 🤷♂
First off, the most outrageous thing Hellmuth did on the stream was his constant misogyny towards Alex Botez.
The situation with Slime was caused entirely by the 3 pros at the table, it's disappointing that they let Hellmuth get away with everything he did, verbally towards Alex and the insane 5k "punishment" against Slime - who wasn't at fault whatsoever. I have never seen anyone who wants to show their cards to someone do it with a motion that clearly looks like a fold. On top of all of that slowstacking against amateurs while yelling constantly how you're the GOAT... What a trash human being.
@Duncan Donut Donut Alan Keating
@Duncan Donut Donut It’s a 2BB jam... you call A9 all day.
@Duncan Donut Donut Phil was in there with a worse hand. Assuming it’s a bad call from botez (I don’t think it was) If he called before there was a bunch of people to act, that’s bad because who knows what the people behind you could have.
Phil was just being his usual salty self with zero introspection or accountability.
@Duncan Donut Donut and? I’m just saying following Phil’s logic, he was making a bigger mistake than she was.
@@yaboyjay7202 How was Phil Helmuth being misogynistic? I watched the whole stream. You could argue that Phil Helmuth was being an asshole throughout the night (Ludwig said that Phil was doing it in a funny way and all the streamers enjoyed Phil’s tilted ragey banter, although the slime stuff was pretty messed up ). But I never got any sense of misogyny whatsoever. He was just acting like how Phil Helmuth always acts towards (mostly male) poker pros.
Aside from the controversy, it's extremely weird, as a chess fanatic, poker fanatic, twitch fanatic, youtube fanatic, and also recently a csgo fanatic, seeing Alexandra botez, ninja, Ludwig, Mr beast, Phil Helmuth, and then VOO CSGO (voo commented) on the SAME fucking video. Holy shit what a collision of worlds. 90% of my main interests on the same video wtf. Next thing I'll see Steph Curry and Cookiezi commenting here as well lmao what a trip this comment section and video has been.
Well, there was everyone's first mistake - inviting Hell-mouth and expecting anything different. Phil has ALWAYS been the biggest douchebag in poker. The only game I'd ever play with him is Russian Roulette, and I'd make sure he went first and used an automatic..
I was so happy for the winners in this game and Alan Keating, man, he was there simply to give action. Props to him !!! Also, chat watching this game went absolutely ballistic when Phil did this and then more ballistic when it wasn't addressed by the commentator.
I don't know nothing about poker or Alan Keatinf but he was so friendly and happy while losing millions definitely seemed to have a good attitude.
1000% agree especially with the straddle, it was really tough to watch him take it so seriously.
Time to run your own $50K table for content Doug and my DM's are open 🐸☕
What are you doing here
Nug this isn’t siege
Sent ya a Twitter dm
@@alex_oxGee its close enough
@@woswasdenni1914 😂😂
After watching this it's clear phil was getting really annoyed that he was losing and deep inside he hated that these people who are half his age were throwing around money like it was nothing and to these youtubers it was nothing. And phil is used to being the richest guy in the room and he thought these ppl were going to fawn over him and instead they laughed in his face especially when mr beast called him out for being a nit. Great analysis by Doug as always
I had not seen this before. I don´really care what the "poker etiquette" says. PH pushed his hand away, i.e. he folded. Even if the other one made a technical mistake a player on PHs level should have given him the pot. I´m trying to find a similar situation in another sport, but I can´t. Phil Hellmuth is a old punk. He has no shame. No integrity. Not a humble bone in his body. Why would anyone want to play against him, except for the fact that his childish behavior brings numbers to the broadcasts. Embarrassing.
Phil Hellmuth: Can't believe Botez called with A9 off suite
Also Phil Hellmuth: I was going to call with A9 off suite🤡
I've got to say, for as long as I've been a poker player, 20+ years, and have been somewhat of a fan of Mr. Helmuth's abilities and accomplishments, I have lost all respect for the man. His actions and behavior is unacceptable and he's become a black cloud in the poker community.. And still promoting a pump and dump crypto??? Come on! It's time to cancel this guy ya'll..
Completely agree, calling professional players "bad" has humor in it so I always thought he was blowing off steam and being funny in the process. The behavior I saw in this video made me revaluate the respect I have for this man on another level. This attitude from him is who he is as a person and I don't understand how another person could be married to such a grown man child.
That stream was my first exposure to pro poker players, not impressed lol
Yes he did. Multiple times. Phil angle hellmuth is a disgrace.
There should be a forward motion rule when it comes to folding. Especially if they’re on the table. He might not be trying to angle but that exact move is used by angle shooters all the time.
Even if seen as a mistake by Phil for being too casual, tough titties. Phil did something that gave the impression he was folding, and tossing your cards across the line should cost him in that case, not the other guy.