@@normalmighty XD im a tank and I usually get healers who have like 1 APM not even kidding like they'll wait till anyone has 200 HP and cast a heal and not do a single point of dmg whole dungeon either D:
unironically my favorite healer moments are scraping people off the floor and practically solo healing the duty in 8 mans or alliance and actually using my full arsenal And I say that after healing almost all of TOP and DSR
@@Direwoof These are usually my experiences with WHM healers whenever I tank. I check their search info, got all jobs to 90. Spent the time doing everything, but can't be bothered to learn how to do anything well.
After playing healer for a while, I personally think the biggest problem with healing is that healers are faced with two things, being in a party where everyone never gets hit aside from raid-wide damage, or in a group of new people who eat mechanics that happen to be 1-2 shots. It's either going to be boring as a healer, or absolutely catastrophic. What I hate as playing as the healer is that there's no in-between. Sometimes in dungeons, tanks will wall to wall and their hp will DROP like a rock, and here I am scrambling to try to keep them up, even if they're using mitigation skills. Then there are some tricky mechanics in dungeons where some players can eat two at once. Once a it happens to a dps who is unfamiliar with a fight, there's no coming out of that, they're instantly dead. Once your instacast is blown, you're having to figure out that time to keep your team up and an opportunity to revive party member. It can get nightmarish. But like I said, being healer is either boring, or extremely stressful.
the issue with having ONLY high damage spike and barely any sustained damage. Lower damage spike more often would make mistakes more recoverable unless already in a bad shape while giving more predictable things to heal all along the fight.
If a tank is using mit in a wall to wall and the healer is still struggling, that's most likely to be a healer skill check. Work on your healing rotation.
@@JohnDCrafton Or the tank is poorly geared. There are some tanks where their HP drops like a rock. This almost always happens in new expansions. Tanks overestimate themselves and get themselves nearly insta-killed
If they add more sustained damage, I would also like for them to have an additional indicator of it in the UI. Nothing complicated, just dimming the section of the health bar that will be consumed by the dot would be gravy.
@@zRidZz Healer queues are gonna be super short and there'll be a huge healer shortage, because there are 2 new dps jobs. Everyone was talking about how heavily in-demand healers are gonna be as soon as the jobs were announced, long before any healer strike was suggested. Now people are going to take the obvious healer shortage that we've all known was coming, and pretend it's al because of this random healer strike bs. Honestly, this is like the lala chair all over. Some random post on the forums which should have disappeared after a day or 2, but instead blew up to crazy proportions because so many people love to read and share drama.
@@Jeezes718 Still not a healer. One can claim that "oh they had a dps with heals", but at the end of the day the content was cleared with a dps with heals and not a healer, whose main role is to heal. The point is the amount of sustain all the classes have and the lack of difficulty in the content makes healers feel irrelevant, and frankly that's a fair way for them to feel.
The funny thing is healers WERE involved with rotations and cleric stance... Then people complained. So I'm putting this in "Gamers don't know what they want"
SCH was "too complicated" so they nerfed it. AST became "fish for the best cards" so they nerfed it. (And now they're just straight up redoing it from scratch.)
I think the best explanation for this is that, you had a massive influx of new ppl in shb and endwalker. All of them can feel that healers are a bit boring when nothing dangerous is going on so they also hopped on the bandwagon. Those people in particular don't know much that healers used to be more entertaining but were nerfed due to being too hard and are now complaining that healers are boring or useless or whatever. So it's a situation where people from the past complained about it being too hard, but now the new people are also complaining that it is too easy.
What's interesting is that the whole issue with Cleric Stance being nerfed is just where we are now to a degree. Back then it was "Oh they can run in and stun lock AoE DPS burst so there isn't a need for actual healing" but now it's "Oh everyone has so much utility they don't need healing." At least back then healers had the ability to be an additional DPS instead of feeling like a wet noodle when they try to do anything but heal.
Very much so. Smn was so fun in storm blood and shadowbringer. But people cried about it's rotation and recovery being hard. Now it's full on easy mode. They want it to be harder for good players then if casual players can't keep up then they'll cry it's too hard again and it will be nerfed. There's a reason savage and unreal exist. This strike basically became a meme. Mainly because they went at this based off 1 dungeon. Dungeons are designed to be easy with maybe 1 exception being a touch challenging per expansion. Also, tanks have selfsustain to help the healer. There are very bad players in every role, and a bad tank or brain dead dps make healing a nightmare where as a bad healer wipes teams. The only reason verraise and smn resurrection are still in the game is dog water healers being bad and needing the back up. Unfortunately 90% of content caters to bad players. Remember Shinryu? People cried that it gated them from progress. If I'm being honest SE amd yoshi should just make the game how they mean to. Most of these strike healers are still on the game because more than half of them are the people who spend all their time being weird in limsa, or never step foot into raid content amd probably just do dungeons. You can do 90% 9f the story with trusts anyway.
Problem is, if the game suddenly couldnt be played without a healer, healer would be the most stressful role to play, with healers being responsible for everyone else even being ALLOWED to play the game. There will probably always be some level of self sufficiency in the jobs, getting rid of that is not the answer
The game design is fine as it currently is, IMO. Yeah it could be tweaked to be a little harder, but at the end of the day you can clear almost all non-savage content with no tanks or no dps. So where is the "dps strike" or the "tank strike" at? The game could easily be changed so that needing all the roles could be a hard requirement. Like imagine if you upped the damage dealt by all dungeon enemies by 500%, but also increased the mitigation of tank abilities to match. At that point it would become impossible to clear without a tank. Imagine if they increased the HP of every dungeon enemy by 500%, but also increased the dps of damage dealer jobs to match. At that point it would become impossible to clear without dps. If any of the above changes were to take place, it would make the game worse and less accessible. The people who are up in arms about this "healing is too easy" thing have no idea what they're talking about.
Well its pretty clear theres an audience for more “midcore” content, which challenges the players more, but not so much that its on par with ultimates difficulty
It's supposed to be balanced so that everybody functions as a team and there is some job overlap and sometimes newer players and establish players f****up and that's why you have healers so you can keep going or you know overcome devastating situations that could wipe the party. The people who have that emergency responsibility suddenly thinking that they can just walk out of the game is kind of silly because they are needed that is their function Like DPS I can't imagine DPS going on strike because that's literally how you play the game It takes a really long time to defeat the boss if you're not focusing on damage at least part of the time.
There's a huge difference between "every party hinges on the healer being GOOD" and "the healer needs to cast healing spells on a somewhat regular basis for the party to last". The content being easy enough (or the tanks having enough self-sustain) that a half decent tank can make it through without a single heal from the healer is too far in that direction imo, but that doesn't mean we need to swing the pendulum entirely in the opposite direction
Im a healer main too and honestly I’ve been avoiding roulette for the last few weeks because for some reason people have just… not been doing mechanics lately and when I try to explain it, I’ve literally been told ‘don’t care’. I would rather play with the npcs right now. It’s too stressful.
I'm still a sprout who is just about done with shadowbringers. I usually play with npcs, but my friend and I qued together for one of the dungeons. We got a tank that kept standing in mechanics. He too, was a sprout, so we thought maybe he just didn't know any better. We tried to give him some advice, only for him to tell us "if I stand in the AOEs I can lure other enemies into them and the AOE will kill them for us." Like I said, I'm still a sprout but I'm 99% sure that's not how that works
I feel like healers should take some cues from Sage and have more attack's that also heal, but obviously I don't want classes to be even more homogeneous then they already are I really hope 8.0 makes healers and tanks feel more distinct from one another.
I can't agree with you. Healers should heal. If you want to deal damage, play dps. There can be some healer jobs like sage which heals through damage, but definitely not all of them.
Healer is at its best when the party doesn't know what it's doing. Unfortunately, the shelf life on that is rather short. Also, I'm getting a little bit of Expedient vibes with the recent mitigation streamline. Maybe it's copium, but I do think this change will have a drastic effect on the raid tier where healing absolutely will have higher value.
I am a tank main, if my healer appears bored, I will stop using big mitigation unless absolutely needed. I tand to run paladin so I can't exactly stop my self healing as my sheltron and my imperator rotation both heal me. However, current later dungeons have had damage values tweaked. If a healer isn't throwing heals the tank will drop even with mitigation being used on the big pulls. So if your tank isn't single group pulling you are healing nigh constantly.
The thing about being a healer, the better your party, the easier your job is. If your party is doing every mechanic then you have very little to do. I would like to see more of an opportunity to support your party when you dont need to do much healing. Rather than increasing dps complexity, add support functionality similar to astrologian. If you're playing with a bunch of new players then you're likely to be spending a lot more time healing.
I miss this. If your party was good as Sch, you would swap to Selene and she had an aoe buff she would use ON HER OWN on your allies to increase their attack/cast speed! She also had an AoE Esuna (the only one in the game mind you). Those took the place of an aoe heal skill and an aoe shield skill that Eos had. Remember when Whm used to be able to increase the armor of others? If your tank died and you had a Drg the Drg could actually taunt the enemy, and a Whm could increase their armor so they temporarily had the defense of a tank and their own bloodbath skill and lifestrike skill could keep them standing against a boss whle the Whm cast a rez. Ast came later and had the support functions built into the cards and got a damage boost skill. Interestingly only the Ast kept their support buffs. Whm lost their armor boost, and Sch lost their attack/cast speed boost. Sage came later and is the 'attack' healer with options to throw. Give the healers more casual buffs to throw...as for scholar...GIVE THEM BACK THEIR DOTS, and let the fearie do more than single target healing again.
Why is this comment section full of such dramatic people acting like they won't find healers in Dawntrail? Touch grass immediately please. 90% of the playerbase doesn't even know about the healer strike.
☝ This. As of right now, that Healer Strike post on the forum has 4662 comments in it. That's not even 1% of active players, and I'm not even accounting for the fact that a lot of those comments are undoubtedly the same people replying in the thread multiple times. Also, the official forum is a hellhole full of trolls, bigoted weirdos, and tons of sock puppet alt accounts owned by the same RMT gil seller who doesn't even try to hide it much of the time.
One of the things that I've been talking to people about is that healer challenge comes from the content more than the rotation. There has been interviews by the producer where they commented about dungeon difficulty. They said that leveling dungeon will be the same easy content but they want to add more challenge into the expert dungeons. To bring the expert back into those dungeons. Will be interesting to see if they can do that.
Making healing jobs too healing intensive turn things like WoW where all the pressure is on the healer, giving 2 more buttons to press it's the easy way out but changes nothing of how u play, u have an illusion of a dps rotation nothing more. For me the fun part of healer it's not the gameplay itself is the management of the group because i have to focus less on doing a rotation i can focus more on how others play so i can notice that Filiph McTardis is prone to fail more and i can cover for him instead of letting him die because he fuked up.
Actually making a role actually required in content (*gasp* yes, even casual content!) doesn't mean "all pressure is on the healer". You can definitely make the case in high end M+ with certain affixes, and certain fights in higher difficulty raids for sure though, but my point being that this isn't always the case. Personally I'm fine with some content/encounters being healing intensive, and other fights being tank or dps intensive, it adds variety to the gameplay. Something FFXIV doesn't even have any analog of anymore.
I'm a WHM main. I play a healer not just to heal but to be an overall support. I've never been on board with maximizing dps and doing minimal heals on this role. I play the role to be a support, not to be a dps. So yes in my mind I wish there was some mid-tier repeatable content that makes it so I have to stay alert. If there was at least a ramped up version of dungeons at max level that would be cool. Doesn't even need gear upgrades. Maybe a mixture of glam/dyes/materia would suffice.
I don't know how I stand on this. On one hand, Yoshi P tells healers to play Ultimates if they think healing is boring. The healers are balanced around high end content, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. I heal ultimates and I think they are a ton of fun, but I can't deny that when I cue into any dungeon content I just put on a TH-cam video and turn my brain off. And the problem is that we are forced to play this content for leveling and tomes. The only thing I think would be an upgrade across the board would be making healer dps rotation a bit more interesting. Similar to how tank is a "dps light", healers should feel like "caster light". Tanks have responsibilities to mit the party and hold aggro/not die, but they still have interesting dps rotations with some depth. For example maybe Toxicon could be reworked on SGE so that casting Dosos 3 times gives you 1 toxicon, and then can be spent on a dps gain melee attack or something like that. I don't really care what they add; just something to keep track of/optimize
@@christopherramirez3003 You're asking too much lol. Most of the players in this game barely even understand how their abilities work. You expect a limsa rper that does roulette to do a combo dps? They barely even use their rapture or assize in a dungeon ffs. It does sounds nice if a glare proc an ogcd dmg ability or what not. But at the end of the day, the majority barely even touch their dps buttons.
Even in high end content it's mind numbingly boring once you've progged a fight. Damage is very scripted and predictable once you've learned a fight and downtime is inevitable with FF fight design, so healers in every single piece of content: casual, extremes, savage or ultimates, will find themselves with downtime where they have nothing to do but 111111121111. In high end content, that downtime is a lot less than casual content, since of course you need to do mechanics and actually have shit to heal, but it's still very much on a 30s-60s rotation of when you can expect the next raid wide or whatever, whilst you just sit there spamming glare. They really do need a better DPS rotation, even if it was as basic as a WAR. Hell, leave WHM as the 11112111 healer and make the other three more interesting. That way the casuals who love their lobotomy rotation can keep it.
@@DawnAfternoon It absolutely is. The fact that 90% of content needs to be boring when you have half a functioning brain stem is just not good game design philosophy.
Giving feedback didn't work for 2 expansions (or 5 years). Should we do the same again and expect another result ? The issue was never officially acknowledged beside Y-P infamous "try ultimate"... You still want to go and want your queues to be quick ? good for you I guess.
I didn't even know there was a strike. In my group I usually play healer so the my friends can play whatever class they want without having to worry about beating the activity we're in. Honestly I do wish that there was a bit more challenge but separating the casuals and the people who play the game nonstop has always been difficult in the past. If they do change the dungeons so that healers are required in the dungeons then the casuals who are playing with a newer healer or someone who isn't fully mentally there will probably wipe several times.
I play dark knight. And I way to often feel like a marshmallow in the tank department. Don't have this issue with paladin or gunbreaker, but I do need healers. Proper mitigation aside my hp is still shredded like cheese in trash. I need those healers. Not everyone is WAR
This is so blown out of proportion. I main healer and I've not met one speck of content that has been able to be completed without a healer. I don't want a more complicated dps rotation, I'm not a dps I'm a healer. If heals aren't needed as much I look at it as an easy run and that I get to watch the fight for once instead of worrying about where I'm standing, where others are standing and health bars while adding a little extra dps to the boss. If it was savage content and a healer wasn't needed then I would say that perhaps the fights weren't challenging enough. Otherwise I'm going to keep playing healer and when Dawntrail launches I'll get fast queues.
you're perfectly entitled to enjoy your 11111121111 rotation in casual content but to expect other people too as well is just silly. I also don't know what content you're talking about but WAR 56+ is literally immortal and can clear any dungeon without a healer, a lot of trials/raids do not even need healers now.
But in Endwalker, some Savage and Ultimates got cleared during the Content Release Patch without any Healer. In 6.0 the only Dungeon boss that actually really needed a Healer was End of Days Final boss.
I'm gonna disagree w/ you about healers being needed for most content considering a group managed to complete an ultimate with 0 healers lol. There is a problem with lack of outgoing dmg from group encounters, and healer tools being too powerful
An issue with healers is that GCD healing is useless. Bosses do so little damage with tanks recovering on themselves that you only need to use oGCD when a raid mechanic happen then back to 20~30s of 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1. Esuna is barely used. There's barely any DoT that would justify using Medica II.
I really hope this is more than wanting a 1 2 3 combo for healers, because every time I ask for what specifically someone wants when they say they want more attacks, I don't get anything more specific than.... just more attacks. Complexity just for the sake of complexity is not good design. (Also seeing that Scholar already has enough actions to fill up two sets of chotbars, I'm assuming that they aren't getting more attacks without a reduction in healing spells or a chording action ala eukrasia)
Personally, I don't want more attacks on a healer, what I want is not spending 95% of my GCDs on those attacks. In my opinion, the way to do that is to have enemies/bosses deal much more damage overall, but much less spiky than they are right now.
@@Naryoril Perhaps more DoTs from bosses/enemies, and an indication on the health bar to show the dot. (Like greying out the section of HP the DoT will eventually consume) We're in a really weird situation where the trash mobs pack more of a punch than the bosses when pulled wall-to-wall, and it would be good to balance this.
@@threenotesoddity I don't want to spend 95% on healing, i just don't want to spend 95% on damage. Also, Blue Mage is a really bad example, the job is simply not balanced, it's just some fun thing on the side.
That's for the actual developers and designers of the jobs to figure out, players aren't developers and have terrible design suggestions. We say healers are completely not engaging in most content, that's something CB3 needs to figure out how to solve. They're woefully bad at it though
I want more attacks for me cause all I got is a dot and one cast. For MSQ it kinda sucks and killing takes longer. Having a 123 along with my dot would be improvement to my dot cast and redo dot after 25 sec
To be fair, recently before I even heard of the strike… I died in a dungeon (it was my first time doing it) and they were able to do the entire fight without me. Not one person died. It did make me feel utterly useless. I’m still gonna play healer though, but I DO get it… For the first time pretty much ever playing 14 for almost 10 years, I considered leaving a dungeon just because I felt like I genuinely didn’t need to be there… On top of that, I’ve also had recent incidents where I go into dungeons telling them it’s my first time, nobody explains what to expect, then I get trolled by the tank for dying. One tank said “you must’ve bought a level skip”…
I think the strike is stupid because very rarely do I ever get a group where I have nothing to do as a healer. And as a tank, I am grateful for having sustain for all the bad healers out there that I have to deal with on the daily who die to the most basic of mechanics.
AMEN to the bad healers. Too many self important healers go " *yawn* it is a roulette, I will put youtub on and turn off my brain." Then they die in stupid ways or are mindlessly spamming attacks and as a tank I have to heal the group cause the healer is phoning it in. This happens WAY TOO OFTEN. More than once I have had groups vote to kick a healer because they obviously weren't paying attention, then a new one pops in quickly. Yeah, healers get replaced pretty quick, tanks are who you still end up waiting for. Best part is yeah, we will keep pulling without a healer. Makes my job as tank harder but eh, it is whatevs. Tanks are used to just doing what needs done.
This is giving me FF11 flashbacks of WHM striking over the low price of teleports. They wanted to charge people more than the going rate at the time. Strike away. I'll take the faster queues but I support the fact that the gameplay has gotten stale. I don't, however, condone having people tell me that I "shouldn't queue as healer cause it's a strike." I'll queue as healer. Because I still enjoy healer. But I also want Holminster Switch levels of tanks getting stuffed, lol.
As a former tank main who started healing to tank better but never went back to tanking.... not all healers want to be challenged all the time. I have loads of fun even when I dont need to heal much. Sometimes simple is good! W2W tanking always makes for a challenge, for both the tank and the healer, but that high stress high challenge isn't the vibe all the time. The artists put a LOT of work into making the dungeons look amazing, and its nice to be able to enjoy that hard work. If you want more challenge as a healer, play Astrologen!!! Actually memorize what cards work for what roles.
The thing is, W2W is absurdly easy as well since trash mobs don't have any mechanics since ARR. They simply attack :) So every dongeon corridors in every dungeon are exactly the same. As for the second point, I totally agree, but we have Exploration mode for this purpose, we can enjoy dungeon design there. I understand that there are lots of players in FF14 who prefer chill and easy gameplay. But they also shouldn't forget about those who enjoy overcoming challenges and don't want to suffer in savages and ultimates. Right now those ppl (me included) have hardly anything to do in the game. Only extremes, perhaps. I
D-did you survived a TANKbuster as a non Tank job? Time for a Tank strike! Jokes aside while the people doing the Healer strike have some valid points (Just 2 of them) they are going about it in such a childish way with the examples that they use, I fear the dev team might look at this and go like: "lol, must the winny side of the community, let's just ignore ALL of what they said". Also I love your bnnuy and I'll miss her when you Fantasia back to being a cat girl 😢
To be fair (i know you said it jokingly) i think the only way for a non tank to survive a buster is if a sage or sch get a lucky clutch crit shield since that takes forever to cast xD
@@Bismarck9871 Well, monks can with just a normal shield due to having their own mitigation. I was in P7N, one of the tanks died, I saw the tankbuster coming, popped Riddle of Earth, and a sage hit me with a non-crit shield. I lived. To be fair though, I've been monk-tanking since ARR. R.I.P. featherfoot 😢
thing is square has listened to the winy sides of the community before, see 2 min meta being established, shadow bringers healer simplification, deaths of smn, blm, and ast, removal of kiten, Overall job simplification, bosses centering themselves evry 5 seconds, Boss hitboxes growing a bunch ect. still, your point stands as they only listen to cassual players so idk why i even commented
"The best way to make things better is to talk about it in a respectful way". Healers have been attempting to do that since Stormblood launched 7 years ago. And yet the CBU3 devs and tripled down now on healer homogenization and bad gameplay. "The players who cleared that dungeon without healers were high end raiders you can't expect normal players to do that" Xeno was playing terribly as a tank there, he admits it. He was clicking his abilities, didn't have certain things on his hotbars and wasn't supporting his team with his Warrior heals (Bloodwhetting instead of Nascent Flashing a DPS for free healing) The basic premise remains: Healers want something interesting to do during the times the party isn't in danger of dying and the same DPS options from lvl 4 to lvl 100 just don't cut it. It's not engaging and it's not fun. A single 30s DoT, a single filler spell and a single AoE got at ~lvl 45. If any other role had that happen they'd riot.
Well said! I enjoyed listening to this quite a bit. Good points all around. I especially liked the "don't judge it from a single dungeon clear" part. I can't agree more.
I'll be main healer, as always, and I couldn't care less for this strike. Casual content is casual content. I did many many level 80+ dungeons without tank and I ain't complaining shit
Heck, I tanked the last two bosses in the final dungeon in the EW patch series as a SGE because a tank dropped. I think Cider Spider said it first, and Avy reiterated it: you can beat any story dungeon with any combination of jobs. It's not hard. It just might require a bit more work or a bit more time. And the fact that people think that one of the top-rated WAR tanks in the world plus a few of his other world-class raider buddies can no-healer a demo dungeon from an expansion that hasn't even been released yet just... proves how much some people need to go touch grass. Easy content is easy.
@Maria_Erias also managed to do Aurum Vale as a scholar without a tank because he ragequit on the first pull, and I know that this is ARR but I still felt proud pulling this off on a duty roulette
A lot of people who don't even play end game content complaining about something that doesn't effect them in any way while not knowing how good they actually have it compared to other MMOs. Typical day in 14. If I need to, I can play a healing job. I don't think "we're going to protest the alleged not needing a healer by not showing up" is the own they think it is. Just wait for the masses of posts in late DT where a suspiciously familiar group of people are posting to complain that their static dropped them for someone else.
Ikr? They kinda missed the point of why strikes work... when idk nurses strike the healthcare system grind to a halt. When healers go on a strike people will just swap to a healer alt job for 15-20min, or just use a trust for msq.
@@The_Yukki this 100%, if they actually do this then whenever I want to get a dungeon quickly I can switch to one of my healer jobs and get a fast queue, and for regular dungeon content it doesn't matter that I don't main healer because I still know the jobs well enough to get people through a dungeon.
@@The_Yukki Also they'd be unionised (probably) so all the nurses would be on strike. Most healers aren't going to be striking making their vocal miniority strike useless.
@@The_Yukki I played Everquest many years ago and the healers back then had to literally sit down on the ground to regain mana faster. Then stand, cast a heal, sit back down. That was the loop. Kids today don't know how good they have it. That's mostly a joke as they do have a number of legitimate complaints with job feel and engagement but top 1% raiders being able to no healer a dungeon isn't indicative of a problem.
@@25xxfrostxx I remember wow healers having to jump to interrupt their cast in case their target did not take damage by the end of the cast in order to not waste mana 😂
I am a healer main and I am going to play normally. I too pass from groups that barely need healing to groups that seem hungry to take every mechanic in the face. I also understand that balance classes is hard. "Sometimes" is boring if the group is good "sometimes" is a nightmare to try to keep everyone up... Kind of hard to balance. First I'll plat DT and see how it is changes and all, then I'll decide by myself how the situation is.
Soon it’ll be like ESO. The healer out tanking the tank. The dps out tanking the tank. The tank healing himself and rezzing others. And the mobs will just die on their own
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IF I KEEP SCREAMING LIKE THIS THEN SE WILL READ MY MIND AND MAKE MY PERFECT GAME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I sometimes joke that the warrior is the Blue Healer and my whitemage is green DPS + mechanics safety net. Things could be tweaked, for sure. That said, it doesn't really bug me that much. I like to be able to spend some effort in damage, I remember playing WoW and rarely participating in DPS and not being much of a fan of that. I ain't upset enough to go on strike of something. My biggest complaints as WHM, off the top of my head, is my DPS rotation being 90% glare, and that I got a handful of stats that aren't really worthwhile to itemize for - Spellspeed and Piety come to mind. I initially liked the idea of gearing for spellspeed to get faster casts and buffs to regen, but it seems that Crit, Direct hit, and determination are too good to give up for either of those stats. Also, even without any piety materia, food, etc., I rarely have problems with mana.
That no healer run of the dungeon they had a red mage which is basically a backup healer. In every game I know people have always tried all tank, all dps, or all heal runs of dungeons and raids. Idk why everyone is so mad. Yes the content is easy, but they said they were going to start scaling the difficulty back up. I have been playing since 1.0 so I definitely know how hard it use to be. Plus even with how easy it is I have had my fair share of new people still wiping to mechanics.
I never saw that Redmage in the no healer run press his vercure once but please correct me if I'm wrong. They only used Verraise after a dps died. and yes... they were not even sweating, but collecting vulnstacks and maybe 2-3 deaths. Just to clear things up a a bit
healer strike is dumb, who cares if a healer only needs to use 3 DPS skills, its easier to play when you don't have to heal all the time, healers ain't DPS so they shouldn't have many DPS skills and healer skills that's too much to handle, I think its selfishness that healers want to make things harder just so they can heal more often.
I got in a dungeon with a drunk healer last night. We explained it to them cause they had no idea and they were like "shit! But I only press two buttons, no no please no more. I only use assize and (another off cool down. Forgot it's name)." after he said he would go fight the leader of the protest, we went and did the dungeon. He seriously did only use two ocd's to heal. The entire dungeon. Homeboii was just enjoying life and his two button presses. Meanwhile the rest of the dungeon party had to basically no hit run the fights knowing full well that support would be a scarcity
I exclusively play the game while drunk off my ass on AST. That guy was probably just half asleep and/or lazy and wanted to see if tetragrammaton and assize were enough to not get kicked lol
I don't think a strike is something good. I can feel my fellow healers who are stressed lately even if I don't understand. Maybe I'm jaded enough to be a healer in a mmo but no one should follow one path to enjoy a role, nor follow my point of view. I just think we've forgotten to have fun to begin with : having a role is a responsibility, I know, but try harding in every level of content isn't healthy at all. To do a strike without true feedback is fuelling biased points of view and frustration. I agree to the fact this frustration is real, maybe more mid core content is one of the answers. But we need more facts, playing the actual game, asking some questions, talking between players, then act accordingly. I just hope every players will have their share of happiness. Remember. This is a game, a world you're part of, you deserve to enjoy it.
Honestly, this is so overblown. Let people have their casual content/story. Also, clearing a dungeon without a healer as a geared out Lv90 warrior isn't exactly some impressive feat lol
As a complete shock to no one, healers still suck in DawnTrail. As we predicted they would since they've sucked all through ShB and EW. At least Picto is fun!
how did healer suck? they have been balanced well for the most part, none of them really had potency issues, ast keeps changing though, healers were at their wors pre stormblood. nearly all of them were garbage.
you summed up my POV perfectly, i play healers, and we need to seehow DT pans out for everyone to start with before requesting changes. Homoginization of the jobs is unhealthy for the game, risks killing job identity.
Depending who you ask, for some this ship has already sailed with Shadowbringers with how Scholar and Astro were gutted. I used to be a healer main but after that I switched to tanking. I'd take stormblood's SCH and AST anytime over their current versions.
I mean... People's complaints are that healers have nothing to do for DPS, and they haven't received anything except obscure things at the highest levels. It doesn't take playing DT or a crystal ball to see that healers haven't quite gotten what they were after.
"killing job identity, we hate homogenization" before homogenization: everyones damage spike is at very different timings after homogenization: OMG, MY REAPER PLAYS JUST LIKE MY MACHINIST SOMEHOW, 2 MINUTE META BAD
@@hanegawamidori4081 I don't have a problem with having nothing to do for DPS, my problem is, that I spend almost all my time on DPS. Give me reasons to spend my GCDs on heals, and have the oGCDs be emergency buttons when someone screws up or to take pressure off the healing to spend more time on damage from time to time. And yeah, i agree with the rather obscure skills at high level, like the white mage lvl 90 skill....
@@bloodbane93I think that’s one of their complaints. Why be a healer if you made the tank able to heal itself almost as well. It’s more a sense of “why the hell am I here if he can do it himself” so why not just play dps or tank yourself
@@TheLastSane1 Except in anything above dungeons, it's far more efficient and less prone to wipes to just bring a healer. The TOP clear was like months of effort, optimization and RNG luck for top end players to clear without a healer. A 'midcore' healer striking because of that is dumb.
@@anaalvensleben789 it’s mostly just to point to a lack of enjoyment. Healers want more to do, they want to feel more important to the team. It’s entirely valid
This is ultimately just the result of the healer role being disrespected by Squeenix for too long. It started back when they removed damage kits from healers multiple expacs ago, which made healer gameplay 211111111121111111. It was intensified when the healer role was made completely irrelevant due to tanks having massive amounts of healing for both themselves and the party. The thing that really kicked it off, however, was YoshiP straight up saying "if you want engaging content, do Ultimate"... content that is well known for being less than 1% of players engage with.
"Don't judge based on one dungeon in DT." "Don't judge based on one dungeon in EW." "Don't judge based on one dungeon in SHB." Healers have been crap for several expansions now, and we've been calling these problems for a very long time. Nothing about the core kit has changed, or will change, even at 100. And frankly, we shouldn't have to wait until level cap to enjoy our jobs in the first place.
@@ruily276 They're not designing it for casuals. I play with casuals. Even they're unhappy with the design here. They question who SE is designing these Jobs for, because it's insulting how easy the Jobs are, even to actual casuals who can only play for a few hours a week. They fit the full definition of casual, and even they're confused with this crap.
The top clear would be a problem if it was a meta strat and turned out to be easier than bringing healers. It's not. Like you'd have to be fcking insane to do it. And then these people will say "well the fact that it's possible means blah blah blah" no, and please shut up, go do top on healer and tell me how unnecessary you feel 1 minute into the fight.
Eh, the TOP clear bothered me for a day, but then I went and watched the clear. They had to use judicious use of Clemency and Vercure on top of precise use of deaths and raises to clear mechanics. And even then they were still at the mercy of good damage and heal rolls to barely eek out a victory. It was an insanely impressive challenge run solved by some absolute gods among raiders. Nothing more, nothing less
As a player who made FFXIV their main mmo and wow their casual, wow alienated a lot of their casual players focusing on higher end content, and they are helping fund the game. Also, Yoshida said they were playing on an early build and it was made easier for people to play viper and picto. *dusts off white mage.* P.S. I cam here for AvyCatte not AvyBunnie ;-) lol
maybe a way to up the ante for dungeons is to reintroduce them as expert level where rather than you syncing with dungeon level, the dungeon syncs with the highest ilvl. kinda like unreal trials Obviously, not every dungeon would be compatible (probably limit it to only 50+ dungeons), but it could introduce a level of difficulty that has been vacant for the longest time.
I know they can't do it because of the amount of time it would take, and the other features it would delete in order to get it done, but I really miss ARR and HW hard modes and would love to see further hard modes introduced with new expansion dungeons. Those dungeons are still pretty difficult, and a lot of the bosses have unusual mechanics that can swack a group pretty easily.
Would this not just be Minimum iLevel / No Echo dungeons? You'd get to keep your actions, but that would be a buff overall. Hard mode remixes are separate dungeons for content.
As a casual but time-investing sprout dps, I already have so many difficulties to deal both with dps AND mechanics, thus I deeply respect healers who also have to monitor the party's HPs and rez, all this on the fastest pace possible
All I want is healers to have more dps buttons than one single target atk and one aoe atk. Take some cues from Sage and add potency buffs from doing dmg or combo between dps and healing abilities, Anything to make healers more engaging of a role!
I think, to make healers more engaging as a role, what needs to be revamped is the healing side, not the damage side, otherwise healers will always be a discount DPS. And to do that, there needs to be more reason to spend GCDs on heals. There is no need to have more dps buttons if you don't press the 2 DPS buttons you have 95% of the time. I think we need to take much more damage overall, but lowering the spikes (any non-tank being 1 or 2 shotted doesn't make healing engaging or fun).
SE thinking about removing rez from summoners 8.0. WOW players playing Dragonflight mythic raids "hold my beer" Going to heal my little heart out during the strike. This is punishing the DPS ques that are already 30 minutes plus. Thanks for overacting guys!
I think this healer strike will actually hurt healers. You can’t form opinions on an expansion that hasn’t come out yet about the content. And that one no healer dungeon run was run by people who are professional raiders. Not everyone does that. Yes the content needs to be engaging but also done in a way casual players can enjoy. I feel like this strike is only going to hurt the game and players more than help.
Healers when I go into a duty as WAR: noooo I want to heal, let me press my healing buttons 😡😭 Healers when I go into a duty as DRK: noooo I'll have to actually press my healing buttons 😡😭
As a WHM and sometimes SCH-- PLD are my favorite tanks to heal, because they need healing but won't pop. GNB are also kind of nice. WAR are kind of a toss-up as to how well they manage their CDs-- they're either immortal, or their healthbars are doing an impression of Wile E. Coyote running off of a cliff. DRK is the worst though, because they need a lot of healing and then they like to pop Living Dead either right before or right after I drop a big heal >.
Yes, in ordinary dungeons a healer is needed to correct huge mistakes of noobs and that’s all. If the team's mechanics do everything correctly, there is no need for a healer.
@@omensoffate You don't really need much knowledge of War on casual content to be ridiculously broken with healing. I'm a terrible tank and that bad boi help me be a good one.
@@omensoffate This viewpoint is irrelevant. There is still a portion of the community who do know how to play their jobs and want more engagement with it. If the job becomes too difficult for people who want to drool on their keyboard instead of learn how things work, they can find another to play. SMN would be my suggestion, lots of pretty colors for them for them to get excited over.
@@LadyBGames bro it's people like you that make most people not want to engage with stuff like the healer strike. Or even want it to actively fail. Why should S.E change the jobs play styles of a vocal toxic Minority of players. When most of the plays are already fine with the job as is. Not saying their shouldn't be any criticism. But get of you high horse and calm down.
I think the funniest thing is since maybe 2 days after Dawntrail launch tops, I haven't had the slightest difficulty getting through queues as DPS. Either people didn't follow through with the strike for very long, or there were never many people actually striking to begin with.
Idk, there's only one part of the healer strike I even think has any merit to begin with, the "simplified damage rotations." Cause I mean, "healers aren't necessary/healing in casual content is boring?" For one it's quite literally just the WAR that can manage without a healer and let's not forget that Xeno also had a RDM in his group for that no-healer clear, and on top of that it's JUST dungeons, even a WAR can only last so long in basic raids much less savage and ultimate where they simply cannot survive without a healer. So the idea that "so many other classes have sustain now" is fucking stupid, yeah people want to be able to help themselves when the healer is busy, new, or just not paying attention, but the amount non-WARs get, whether DPS or Tank, will never be enough to invalidate healers. But also yeah, in casual content when people know what they're doing healers will feel boring, and guess what, same for literally fucking everyone else! Tanks barely need to use their defensives if at all, fuck they can often get away with not even moving out of any mechanics, DPS can literally ignore all their buffs and just hit the buttons that light up, everything will become boring in casual content when you're no longer at a casual level, ffs. As mentioned I do agree that the healer damage options have become far too simple, but that's the only complaint levied in this "healer strike" worth anything, other then that this whole strike is purely ignorance, imho.
They "can" ignore their extra mechanics, sure. But it will go smoother / faster if Tanks use their skills, if DPS use their skills. Healers can't do that. All they can do is burn mana to overheal. They have options that healers don't. Can I, a monkey-brained MNK, get through a dungeon using the absolutely brainless rotation of 1-2-3 and nothing more? Absolutely, of course I can. Can I, a mango washing monkey-brained MNK, get through a dungeon while practicing my rotation for savage? You better believe it. Slap on a monocle and call me Gunnhilder's Blade, I can do it as a GNB too. Big ol' burn window of double weaving like a flamenco dancing beyblade. But I can't do that as a starry-eyed AST. I'm either going to cover for other people's mistakes so they don't have to learn how to play the dungeon, or I'm going to fall asleep throwing bad luck juju at the enemies.
@@TheOtherCoinflipper Sure, DPS and Tanks can go apeshit in a dungeon for no reason and treat it like some endgame challenge, but that doesn't actually make it any more challenging, it's still a cake walk no matter how you play it, THAT doesn't change from DPS to Tank to Healer. It also can't change for healer unless they improve upon it's offensive options and capabilities, the one thing I did say I agreed should be addressed, but the HEALING part of it being boring isn't cause "the other jobs have too many self healing options," it's cause the content is just that easy. Step out of dungeons and ALL of that changes, no one can survive without healers (except WAR and maybe PLD/GNB in some lower tier normal raids), and all of those concerns are immediately thrown out the window cause they no longer apply. THAT is the content the game is balanced around, it's why DRK still sucks ass in dungeons, cause no one on the dev team apparently gives a shit, so healers being generally bored in the content everyone who isn't purely casual finds boring doesn't actually matter.
So a streamer showed off some gameplay that people took out of context? Sounds like the last Healer controversy. A streamer had to sit in queue a little while longer because of lack of healers. THing was that he was playing later at night after peak hours ended. Cue the "healer shortage" bs we had a couple years back.
NO ONE knows how things are going to be in DT yet, look at all the media tour videos and you will see that they all say the same thing "all potency numbers are subject to change"... the build they played at the media tour was over 2 months old as well. It is almost a guarantee that SE had adjusted things before the media tour took place. Please everyone tap the breaks, take a deep breath and see how things play before you hit enrage. Plus Avy is right, your not hurting the devs or SE... your actions will hurt your fellow players and friends. bright side though, it might bring more people over to healing that wouldn't have considered it.
It’s never changed drastically from media tour to release. Small things sure but it’s generally the same. Unfortunately hurting player experience in the matter is how the devs will in fact hear. When DPS and Tanks can’t get a queue for an extended period of time then they will speak up, the community will unite, and the people that pay the bills will be heard.
@@1Mrstephen that just isn't going to happen. Because there isn't going to be enough healer that give two licks about the strike. The ques are going to be slow regardless because the amount of people that will be playing. But there is going to be more that enough people who don't look at job changes. Who don't read forums. Who don't read twitter. The healers complaining is a very small minority of the actual healers in game. And many people will just switch jobs if que gets to bad. The strike is going to do nothing except waste the time of the people who are striking.
@@1Mrstephen There are two new DPS jobs people are going to be playing and people who play healer, mains or otherwise ( i play everything ) will want to level their jobs to see what new stuff they get. This strike is going to do nothing because you cannot force millions of players to not play healers. This is a joke.
@@kellevichy You are correct in all of that. How are people going to be heard if they don’t do or say something. It’s funny all the liberals that have been protesting all these years are against a protest…. Yes there is a correlation.
Okay so what the first dungeon or even first few dungeons are easy because you’re supposed to be on “vacation” but then BAM 💥 EXTRA HARD DUNGEONS???!!! EVERYONE PANIC. SOLUTION 9!
I agree with the sentiment that calling it a "strike" will just get things made into a joke, but I honestly feel like it's the only option people have left. I know tons of healers and non-healers that find 111111 boring, and most other veterans that I know don't enjoy the role as much as they used to. We have been giving feedback and complaining for years and it's gone ignored, so a performative "strike" feels like the only way left for anyone to get heard unfortunately. I've played healer since late HW and still do even if I've been unsatisfied with the role since 5.0, because I feel like having good healers is a huge team asset in both prog and reclears. I'm willing to take a "personal enjoyment" hit so my group has the best chance of succeeding. For DT though, I'm not on strike per se but I'm maining DPS because I just can't tolerate how boring the gameplay is anymore.
the only way to deal with that is to delete the healer role altogether and make everything dps with dodge and self-healing included. Then, everyone will be the hero of their own story.
@@Naryoril it's not just GW2 that has this model and walked away from the holy trinity. As a healer main I do not share any of the sentiments. I find healers highly fun and engaging. You don't have much of a dps rotation but you have a healing rotation. also, that is never fixed. Also goes without saying, I play 98% just savage, ultimates and ex. Casual content should be easy and fast.
Really good summary and points, Avy. I feel so conflicted on it. I’m pretty casual but also have an understanding and agreement on the “why.” However, I still enjoy healing, even though I agree it needs improvement. I want to level one DPS in MSQ and one heal class right away in Dawntrail dungeons, and I’m worried: are players going to blacklist me if I queue as healer? It’s something I’ve been looking forward to. I started in Endwalker and really was looking forward to hitting new dungeons blind, as a healer, just enjoying some healthy group confusion and problem-solving as we all learn together.
I agree with this sadly.. AST is the healer that brought me into raiding and whatnot. I love how I always have something to do. DT AST looks like a joke sadly
@@allhana365 they're giving the cards back some individuality but locking them as set draws under astral or umbral draw. so you're always drawing the exact same set of cards. always. no need to even fucking think. and since they're doing away with the seals, astrodyne is getting deleted. so mp is also going to get fucked like back in the day.
Not only was this strike planned to be held way too early tbh, I also find they keep forgetting that the devs *just* fixed the dungeons to be played with Duty Support, made them better, some got very simplified. I just find it funny, that shortly after things have been made easier, it is suddenly too easy? Don't get me wrong, I miss the old dungeons but they were really mean when you had a whole group of newbies that had never done that one dungeon before (the one with the Garlean tools you needed to collect stuff for is a good example). I'm not sure how to put this better... but I feel like this whole ordeal shouldve been done after DT released and not before and also not simply judged on a single video?
Here's the issue. A lot of people who are casuals do not know what most of their kit does, they could probably never do a dungeon without a healer and will find it VERY disheartening that they have to stay in queues for tens of minutes on end just to progress the story as a DPS or a tank. This is going to hurt a lot the people who choose to play for the MSQ except healer because of the artificially lengthened dungeon queue times that this will generate.
At the same time, should people feel obligated to play a role that's braindead boring most of time to make the queues more manageable for others? Sure, the idea of stirring the pot and getting people jumping on the bandwagon isn't ideal, but on an individual player level, I want healer to be engaging enough to get people to WANT to play it, and if a lot more people are deciding "I'm not having fun anymore, I'll play another role" then they should do what makes the game more fun for them
I'm really not a fan of the strikers literally attempting to make the launch experience worse for other parts of the playerbase. Yes, let's wake up and decide to make the world a slightly worse place today! Surely I am helping! Like, no one is owed other players queuing up as healer. That's true. But if you read comments from strikers you'll see plenty of verbalized spiteful intent, and I just think that's sad.
Those people who will complain about the upcoming healer shortage are very free to pick one up for quicker queues, but if they do that they'll understand why a lot of us are simply done with the role. It's literally unplayable in casual content. Doing your MSQ's as a healer where you eventually reach a story instance boss where you just 1111121111 - riveting, honestly.
back in the day, there was a thing called healer stance and that one skill pretty much show cased the good healers from the bad, as it single handedly overloaded the healer into switching between attacking and healing. People complained that healers were too hard and to make it easier, and then they removed it because players were complaining. And now we are here where healers are complaining that it's too easy. It just goes to show that no matter what they do people are going to dislike something about the choices they make. If you want a challenge, bring back healer stance. Periodt.
It's CB3's fault for their poor decision making in using feedback to implement changes directly, instead of interpreting feedback through their design vision. They have no design vision. That's why gameplay is so stale.
I hear you, Avy, I do. But I think people are doing the strike because we've BEEN complaining about the easiness of healers since Shadowbringers. People don't feel heard. They don't feel like the devas are listening to healers in particular because we've felt ignored since Shadowbringers. That's why they feel like extreme measures are needed. Like you, I am a healer main and I completely understand the complaints. But I also agree that well, this isn't the best way to go about it. But I also understand why it is happening the way it is. People feel like the devs have been ignoring healers. They've felt this way for years. When enough people are ignored going through the correct channels for too long, they go to further extremes. That's what we are seeing now. Also YoshP said the changes to the easiness of the game will happen after Dawntrail. He specifically said to not expect much different combat in DT.
Healers will refuse to play healers... Like who cares? There's so many healer these days that it doesn't even matter. If anything there will be more healer slots open in pf
From what I've experienced yesterday, the strike started early, and it was more of a hostage situation with party finders requesting money in order to skip the 30+ min roulette times. If it was just a strike, I would understand. If you're going out of your way to say "Pay me, play PvP or sit there and cry" the message is kinda lost. (All of this was from Hyperion, Bozja is basically just dps. There was 1 healer in the whole place. I know this because I had died six different times in southern front, and they found me by complete accident every time.)
As a healer main, the audacity of tanks pulling the biggest pulls (literally pulling 3 groups of mobs) without even asking the healer if it’s cool, or the tank literally standing in and ignoring aoe attacks bc it’s the healers job to keep everyone alive is sooo annoying. Like you can’t do that post-shd dungeons
Most tanks assume the healer knows their shit and it's true 95% of the time. Are you really thinking they're going to ask for consent in every single dungeons?
i noticed that i get a lot more instant queues as healer in dt compared to ew on chaos. it has had a small impact, but i dont think it has been as big as on american dc's
Hearing people say that the game is too casual and needs to be Harder makes me so upset honestly as someone who has limited time to play and plays to RELAX. If I wanted harder content I would *go to the harder content* aka Savage, Extreme, etc. Why do the most vocal chronically online players get to say the game is too easy?
I would like to counter the comment on the DT dungeon without healers, Xenosys forgot to put various buttons on his hotbar and had time mid battle to put them on his hotbar, so it's not like he was playing well at all, he was playing by the seat of his pants the whole time, especially since he didn't have his MMO mouse to play how he normally does. He was basically relearning how to play with a different controller without a healer in dungeon content. Other than that, the rest of the points you make are fair.
He was also lvl 100 in AF gear in a lvl 91 dungeon, so lvl sync putting him at the maximum helps too. Not like we haven't had undergeared tanks melt in dungeons *cough* Bardam's Mettle *cough*
@@anaalvensleben789 That brand new DRK tank in Stone Vigil still wearing level 30 gear who doesn't know what a mitigate is, but still tries to W2W pull because that's what he sees all the big boy tanks doing...
Playing the expansion with very little changes if any except for a couple new skills doesn’t prove or help the cause. The start of the xpac is exactly the right time. In fact I think it should have started already. People want change, playing through it and waiting another 2.5 - 3 years is WAY TO LONG to wait.
@@pagingdoctorsideburns Well, healers have been complaining about this for about five years now. The media tour is just confirmation that they're still not listening. Also, balance patches have gone out at the start of an expansion. I don't see why they couldn't add a couple new simple mechanics to healers, especially when it's becoming this much of an issue.
I agree, but it'll definitely lead to immense disdain for healers and even potential witch hunts. You gotta remember that people also took work off (myself included) to play early access on Friday. Obviously, I wouldn't partake in the witch hunts since it leads to further division in communities but I'd definitely be frustrated knowing my days off will be met with no progress being made
@@chelsthegameruiner8669 totally understand what you’re saying, but if you played End Walker on release, you know, taking the day off for an expansion release is probably a mistake and will lead to more frustrations than a few less less healers in the queues. I hope I’m wrong and they fixed all their issues but part of me highly doubts it
1:26 Even if your party members are new, they are still going to die after 2-3 stacks of weakness debuff, and then you are going to spend an eternity also pressing one button and waiting. Which is literally no different than Healer DPS.
As a healer main, I want to have the game be easy enough for everyone but also some harder content for non-savage-raiders. The gap between casual and high-end-raider is far too big and I would love either harder optional content for groups or at least a better healer gameplay. Both will be coming I am sure since SE is always looking for such issues. The variant dungeons were a good start and this expansion was first and foremost a baseline for improvements starting with graphics. Astro played a lot better already and I assume healers will improve way before the next expansions.
My favorite part about people bitching about healers being too easy is when p5s-p8s were current, and people started bitching about how hard it was to heal that tier, when it was a blast.
I doubt it was the same people flip flopping. All the healers I've known wanted more of Abyssos and felt a glimmer of vitality restore them when they had to heal Harrowing Hell.
Abyssos had a mitigation problem. While I don't mind bleeds and would like to see more of them, having the DoT damage snapshot the moment it goes out makes it a healing AND mitigation check, because if the party didn't mitigate it or mitigated too late, the DoT hits much, much harder. So it's a party responsibility that is then blamed on the healers if they can't keep up with the unmitigated bleed. Harrowing Hell was a better heal check (when it isn't just cheesed with tank LB)
The "strike" is really just people looking for a new main until they see healer design has actually improved. SE has done a bad job showing how healing is going to change in Dawntrail, and what little we have to go on looks like the problem hasn't been addressed, so its hard to blame people for being pessimistic about healers going into Dawntrail.
Yeah, a bunch of people who were already going to be playing picto or viper, but are now pretending that they and any other healer switching is doing it for the strike.
Here is the thing, the Healer design is actually very good. Healer design in FFXIV is not the problem, it's damage patterns and damage variety and to change that would be too big of a change considering how the dungeon formula works. I would argue that I would like to see these changes more in extremes, savage and ultimate but dungeons themselves are only designed to be daily content and not be hard, even though every time a hard dungeon is released they nerf it because players complain (The burn and Pharos Sirius to name a couple).
Very nicely said Avy! I agree with your observations on the state of the game and the better ways to achieve change. The game needs to be fun for a wide variety of players to continue its growth and succeed. Since there is no way one size will fit everyone, making greater use of difficulty tiers seems like an obvious approach. In “another game” dungeons came in Normal, Heroic and Mythic difficulties. I played a healer in all three and never felt unnecessary at higher levels. The issue with this is that the higher levels need to have much better rewards for the greater effort. You did a video on this about variant dungeons. When I was running mythic dungeons with a group from our raid team, they were a way to gear up for heroic raids. Also, party finder only for normal and heroic. Only premade groups for Mythic. Anyway, I think greater use of difficulty levels would help alleviate the concerns. P.S.: They could keep a leader board for mythic clears with group names and clear times.
4:00 While I agree with the video, Xenos literally said in the video made in response to this, "anybody can do this" so that didn't exactly help things.
This makes sense now. When I queue as a Summoner the average queue time is around 20 minutes so I switch and requeue as a Scholar and boom instant queue.
As a sage main, I'm personally content with healer after having played dps/tank roles in prior years. I enjoy my flexibility when needed, but I'll admit the reason I'm sage isn't just for the aesthetic, but because it feels more interactive than other healers. SCH is 2nd for me since providing chonky shields feels nice and I love the attack animations as well as the fairy management(I know it's not a lot but still that's enough to be unique). However I was never personally interested in pure healing because there's really too much of it from some jobs and the fact that tanks seem to handle healing/mitigation enough as is... Sometimes I'll get a dungeon or trial where I'm purely a dps without having to heal... other times I'm 1 of 2 healers doing the healing. While I'm personally not for a strike, I think there's a balance or synergy not being met with healers in relation to co-healing or their tanks anymore. Tanks have their balance with swapping out or taking hits together, mitigation for the group, dps have their priorities and more complex rotations... but you get 2 pure healers together, you easily overheal on top of one another. Same with double shield heals or even 2 competant healers even being 1 shield and 1 pure heal. You go into a dungeon where you're expected to heal the tank, but some dps provide healing on top of how much tanks can already handle, it gets to the point that there's not a lot to really do other than your basic attack skill and any damage abilities on cooldown. As a sage, I'm slapping Kardia on the tank, and that will passively heal them so long as they're doing their job right(which, no one should be mad at people playing correctly either). While I like that... I also never need to hit any other buttons besides phlegma or reaupply dots. At the same time, I don't think I want a complex rotation or more attacks. I just want my healing buttons to matter more and to visibly see I'm contributing the same way a tank now can watch as a hit does nothing to their health through mitigating and a dps gets to watch the boss' health drop when they do damage. I power up Pneuma with Zoe for a huge aoe blast? That's good, but the AST's earthly star already got them to full or near anyways. I want to use my regens? Too late, the other healer used a burst heal or the tank mitigated it to the point that everyone took maybe a sliver off their health. I think most people would agree that they enjoy feeling valued as a healer and not just as "insurance" if something goes wrong. That's just my 2 cents on the matter though.
Sages are in serious need a of a damage nerf. FFXIV logs shows this as an obvious factor. Seeing SGE out damage decent DPS and massively outdamaging mid dps has shown how bad it is. Even during the live letter, Alphy ....as a sage.... was shown as "dps". That means the line is too fine between the two.
I think the main issue is a gameplay problem. That being that damage is the single most important thing in this game, cause once you get to a certain level whether it's savage or ultimate you already know what buttons you're gonna press and when it's about fitting in as much damage as possible. And that's how the game is designed, there's no consistent damage to heal like in other MMOs it's always in bursts or a small window of sustained damage. So the problem then becomes it's not engaging nor rewarding to essentially use a mitigation cooldown and the only damage you're contributing is a DoT and a single target damage spell. For me at least healers use to be complex in the sense that they had loads of buttons but you barely used any of them, so they changed them which imo was good, however they've also been dumbing stuff down and streamlining jobs way too much recently which I think tanks and healers have definitely bore the brunt of. While I do agree with the sentiment this strike has, as I also agree healer is by far the most uninteresting role to play in XIV, however I also think the only real way we're going to get proper change with this is an inherent gameplay change
Meanwhile every time I play Healer it feels like I'm dragging my party's corpses across the finish line no matter how hard they try to die
Right? Where are these competent df groups everyone is talking about where the tank uses mitigation properly and everyone stays out of the damage aoes
As a dragoon I need to tank the floor ok
Ps thanks for keeping us alive ❤😊
@@normalmighty XD im a tank and I usually get healers who have like 1 APM not even kidding like they'll wait till anyone has 200 HP and cast a heal and not do a single point of dmg whole dungeon either D:
unironically my favorite healer moments are scraping people off the floor and practically solo healing the duty in 8 mans or alliance and actually using my full arsenal
And I say that after healing almost all of TOP and DSR
@@Direwoof These are usually my experiences with WHM healers whenever I tank. I check their search info, got all jobs to 90. Spent the time doing everything, but can't be bothered to learn how to do anything well.
After playing healer for a while, I personally think the biggest problem with healing is that healers are faced with two things, being in a party where everyone never gets hit aside from raid-wide damage, or in a group of new people who eat mechanics that happen to be 1-2 shots. It's either going to be boring as a healer, or absolutely catastrophic. What I hate as playing as the healer is that there's no in-between. Sometimes in dungeons, tanks will wall to wall and their hp will DROP like a rock, and here I am scrambling to try to keep them up, even if they're using mitigation skills. Then there are some tricky mechanics in dungeons where some players can eat two at once. Once a it happens to a dps who is unfamiliar with a fight, there's no coming out of that, they're instantly dead. Once your instacast is blown, you're having to figure out that time to keep your team up and an opportunity to revive party member. It can get nightmarish. But like I said, being healer is either boring, or extremely stressful.
the issue with having ONLY high damage spike and barely any sustained damage.
Lower damage spike more often would make mistakes more recoverable unless already in a bad shape while giving more predictable things to heal all along the fight.
If a tank is using mit in a wall to wall and the healer is still struggling, that's most likely to be a healer skill check. Work on your healing rotation.
@@JohnDCrafton Or the tank is poorly geared. There are some tanks where their HP drops like a rock. This almost always happens in new expansions. Tanks overestimate themselves and get themselves nearly insta-killed
If they add more sustained damage, I would also like for them to have an additional indicator of it in the UI.
Nothing complicated, just dimming the section of the health bar that will be consumed by the dot would be gravy.
This unfortunately is the nature of any support role in any game it isn’t a FF14 exclusive issue
Man, between everyone trying the two new dps jobs, and this circus show my healer queue speeds are going to be like something out of science fiction.
Queue is going to pop before you even think about logging in.
The que is gonna pop before the login.
Enter/Hold/Withdraw options will replace the start/datacenter/config in launch menu. Automatic Healer job roulette at login!
tbh theres not nearly enough striking lol, healer queues gonna be the same
@@zRidZz Healer queues are gonna be super short and there'll be a huge healer shortage, because there are 2 new dps jobs. Everyone was talking about how heavily in-demand healers are gonna be as soon as the jobs were announced, long before any healer strike was suggested.
Now people are going to take the obvious healer shortage that we've all known was coming, and pretend it's al because of this random healer strike bs.
Honestly, this is like the lala chair all over. Some random post on the forums which should have disappeared after a day or 2, but instead blew up to crazy proportions because so many people love to read and share drama.
People pretending like Warrior wasn't always borderline unkillable
My buddy and I have been no heal running dungeons for years.
Well they finally got a high profile example to go "told ya"
"cleared dungeon without a healer"
*has a rez-mage*
Rez mage and warrior, the most self-sustaining tank.
Right?! tell me you don't play warrior without telling me you don't play warrior!
That is still not a healer.
@@seripah8852
No, but it is someone who can duel cast both healing and raise.
@@Jeezes718 Still not a healer. One can claim that "oh they had a dps with heals", but at the end of the day the content was cleared with a dps with heals and not a healer, whose main role is to heal. The point is the amount of sustain all the classes have and the lack of difficulty in the content makes healers feel irrelevant, and frankly that's a fair way for them to feel.
Meanwhile, I will be getting insta ques and making gil out of it.
Exactly what I thought when I heard about it haha
100% true
absolutely lol
It’ll be easier to find healer slots in PF as well.
yep, Leveling healers will be dead simple.
The funny thing is healers WERE involved with rotations and cleric stance... Then people complained.
So I'm putting this in "Gamers don't know what they want"
SCH was "too complicated" so they nerfed it. AST became "fish for the best cards" so they nerfed it. (And now they're just straight up redoing it from scratch.)
I think the best explanation for this is that, you had a massive influx of new ppl in shb and endwalker. All of them can feel that healers are a bit boring when nothing dangerous is going on so they also hopped on the bandwagon. Those people in particular don't know much that healers used to be more entertaining but were nerfed due to being too hard and are now complaining that healers are boring or useless or whatever. So it's a situation where people from the past complained about it being too hard, but now the new people are also complaining that it is too easy.
I'm sure there's a portion that don't know what they want, but also, there's a lot of people with a lot of different wants and preferences
What's interesting is that the whole issue with Cleric Stance being nerfed is just where we are now to a degree. Back then it was "Oh they can run in and stun lock AoE DPS burst so there isn't a need for actual healing" but now it's "Oh everyone has so much utility they don't need healing."
At least back then healers had the ability to be an additional DPS instead of feeling like a wet noodle when they try to do anything but heal.
Very much so. Smn was so fun in storm blood and shadowbringer. But people cried about it's rotation and recovery being hard. Now it's full on easy mode. They want it to be harder for good players then if casual players can't keep up then they'll cry it's too hard again and it will be nerfed. There's a reason savage and unreal exist.
This strike basically became a meme. Mainly because they went at this based off 1 dungeon. Dungeons are designed to be easy with maybe 1 exception being a touch challenging per expansion.
Also, tanks have selfsustain to help the healer. There are very bad players in every role, and a bad tank or brain dead dps make healing a nightmare where as a bad healer wipes teams. The only reason verraise and smn resurrection are still in the game is dog water healers being bad and needing the back up. Unfortunately 90% of content caters to bad players. Remember Shinryu? People cried that it gated them from progress.
If I'm being honest SE amd yoshi should just make the game how they mean to. Most of these strike healers are still on the game because more than half of them are the people who spend all their time being weird in limsa, or never step foot into raid content amd probably just do dungeons. You can do 90% 9f the story with trusts anyway.
As a tank main I appreciate my healers ❤
and we appreciate our tanks ❤️
Problem is, if the game suddenly couldnt be played without a healer, healer would be the most stressful role to play, with healers being responsible for everyone else even being ALLOWED to play the game. There will probably always be some level of self sufficiency in the jobs, getting rid of that is not the answer
The game design is fine as it currently is, IMO. Yeah it could be tweaked to be a little harder, but at the end of the day you can clear almost all non-savage content with no tanks or no dps. So where is the "dps strike" or the "tank strike" at?
The game could easily be changed so that needing all the roles could be a hard requirement. Like imagine if you upped the damage dealt by all dungeon enemies by 500%, but also increased the mitigation of tank abilities to match. At that point it would become impossible to clear without a tank. Imagine if they increased the HP of every dungeon enemy by 500%, but also increased the dps of damage dealer jobs to match. At that point it would become impossible to clear without dps.
If any of the above changes were to take place, it would make the game worse and less accessible.
The people who are up in arms about this "healing is too easy" thing have no idea what they're talking about.
Well its pretty clear theres an audience for more “midcore” content, which challenges the players more, but not so much that its on par with ultimates difficulty
It's supposed to be balanced so that everybody functions as a team and there is some job overlap and sometimes newer players and establish players f****up and that's why you have healers so you can keep going or you know overcome devastating situations that could wipe the party. The people who have that emergency responsibility suddenly thinking that they can just walk out of the game is kind of silly because they are needed that is their function Like DPS I can't imagine DPS going on strike because that's literally how you play the game It takes a really long time to defeat the boss if you're not focusing on damage at least part of the time.
Lmao, just a clout lure and pointless 😂😂😂
There's a huge difference between "every party hinges on the healer being GOOD" and "the healer needs to cast healing spells on a somewhat regular basis for the party to last". The content being easy enough (or the tanks having enough self-sustain) that a half decent tank can make it through without a single heal from the healer is too far in that direction imo, but that doesn't mean we need to swing the pendulum entirely in the opposite direction
Im a healer main too and honestly I’ve been avoiding roulette for the last few weeks because for some reason people have just… not been doing mechanics lately and when I try to explain it, I’ve literally been told ‘don’t care’. I would rather play with the npcs right now. It’s too stressful.
I'm still a sprout who is just about done with shadowbringers. I usually play with npcs, but my friend and I qued together for one of the dungeons. We got a tank that kept standing in mechanics. He too, was a sprout, so we thought maybe he just didn't know any better. We tried to give him some advice, only for him to tell us "if I stand in the AOEs I can lure other enemies into them and the AOE will kill them for us."
Like I said, I'm still a sprout but I'm 99% sure that's not how that works
@@pungivergiverofpuns3611 It is not how that works. The AOE won't hurt enemies, just players.
@@pungivergiverofpuns3611indeed, it does not work that way.
just don't heal them until they get tired and leave, easy
Are you kidding? Those parties are what make my day!! At last get a chance to push some heals
After all this we definitely need a summer beach vacation in dawntrail 😅
and enjoy some big fat tacos in the new world
I feel like healers should take some cues from Sage and have more attack's that also heal, but obviously I don't want classes to be even more homogeneous then they already are I really hope 8.0 makes healers and tanks feel more distinct from one another.
As a SCH/SUM I just want my dots man...
I’m all for bringing job diversity back honestly. Especially for healers
@@KitsuneRogue Kindred spirit... I understand.... But also maybe more group attacking than art of war..... But agreed.
I can't agree with you. Healers should heal. If you want to deal damage, play dps. There can be some healer jobs like sage which heals through damage, but definitely not all of them.
Healer is at its best when the party doesn't know what it's doing. Unfortunately, the shelf life on that is rather short. Also, I'm getting a little bit of Expedient vibes with the recent mitigation streamline. Maybe it's copium, but I do think this change will have a drastic effect on the raid tier where healing absolutely will have higher value.
So true. I love when I get in a group with all sprouts.
I am a tank main, if my healer appears bored, I will stop using big mitigation unless absolutely needed. I tand to run paladin so I can't exactly stop my self healing as my sheltron and my imperator rotation both heal me.
However, current later dungeons have had damage values tweaked. If a healer isn't throwing heals the tank will drop even with mitigation being used on the big pulls. So if your tank isn't single group pulling you are healing nigh constantly.
The thing about being a healer, the better your party, the easier your job is. If your party is doing every mechanic then you have very little to do.
I would like to see more of an opportunity to support your party when you dont need to do much healing. Rather than increasing dps complexity, add support functionality similar to astrologian.
If you're playing with a bunch of new players then you're likely to be spending a lot more time healing.
I miss this. If your party was good as Sch, you would swap to Selene and she had an aoe buff she would use ON HER OWN on your allies to increase their attack/cast speed! She also had an AoE Esuna (the only one in the game mind you). Those took the place of an aoe heal skill and an aoe shield skill that Eos had.
Remember when Whm used to be able to increase the armor of others? If your tank died and you had a Drg the Drg could actually taunt the enemy, and a Whm could increase their armor so they temporarily had the defense of a tank and their own bloodbath skill and lifestrike skill could keep them standing against a boss whle the Whm cast a rez.
Ast came later and had the support functions built into the cards and got a damage boost skill. Interestingly only the Ast kept their support buffs. Whm lost their armor boost, and Sch lost their attack/cast speed boost.
Sage came later and is the 'attack' healer with options to throw.
Give the healers more casual buffs to throw...as for scholar...GIVE THEM BACK THEIR DOTS, and let the fearie do more than single target healing again.
I can see it now, SE says "oh you want healers to matter, every fight now has 40 required esuna's, now you have to bring a healer"
Unironically the healer role quest solo duty was literally "You're only a healer because you have to spam esuna in this fight"
Why is this comment section full of such dramatic people acting like they won't find healers in Dawntrail? Touch grass immediately please. 90% of the playerbase doesn't even know about the healer strike.
Didn't even hear of it until now lol
☝ This. As of right now, that Healer Strike post on the forum has 4662 comments in it. That's not even 1% of active players, and I'm not even accounting for the fact that a lot of those comments are undoubtedly the same people replying in the thread multiple times. Also, the official forum is a hellhole full of trolls, bigoted weirdos, and tons of sock puppet alt accounts owned by the same RMT gil seller who doesn't even try to hide it much of the time.
The grass feels pretty nice….. ooh, there’s a squirrel over there!
There's so many scabs don't worry about it lol
@@averyaustin1 quick, CATCH IT !!!!!
One of the things that I've been talking to people about is that healer challenge comes from the content more than the rotation. There has been interviews by the producer where they commented about dungeon difficulty. They said that leveling dungeon will be the same easy content but they want to add more challenge into the expert dungeons. To bring the expert back into those dungeons. Will be interesting to see if they can do that.
I'm just gonna use this strike to level healers then.
Didnt even know it was happening
Making healing jobs too healing intensive turn things like WoW where all the pressure is on the healer, giving 2 more buttons to press it's the easy way out but changes nothing of how u play, u have an illusion of a dps rotation nothing more.
For me the fun part of healer it's not the gameplay itself is the management of the group because i have to focus less on doing a rotation i can focus more on how others play so i can notice that Filiph McTardis is prone to fail more and i can cover for him instead of letting him die because he fuked up.
Actually making a role actually required in content (*gasp* yes, even casual content!) doesn't mean "all pressure is on the healer".
You can definitely make the case in high end M+ with certain affixes, and certain fights in higher difficulty raids for sure though, but my point being that this isn't always the case.
Personally I'm fine with some content/encounters being healing intensive, and other fights being tank or dps intensive, it adds variety to the gameplay. Something FFXIV doesn't even have any analog of anymore.
I'm a WHM main. I play a healer not just to heal but to be an overall support. I've never been on board with maximizing dps and doing minimal heals on this role. I play the role to be a support, not to be a dps. So yes in my mind I wish there was some mid-tier repeatable content that makes it so I have to stay alert. If there was at least a ramped up version of dungeons at max level that would be cool. Doesn't even need gear upgrades. Maybe a mixture of glam/dyes/materia would suffice.
I don't know how I stand on this. On one hand, Yoshi P tells healers to play Ultimates if they think healing is boring. The healers are balanced around high end content, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. I heal ultimates and I think they are a ton of fun, but I can't deny that when I cue into any dungeon content I just put on a TH-cam video and turn my brain off. And the problem is that we are forced to play this content for leveling and tomes. The only thing I think would be an upgrade across the board would be making healer dps rotation a bit more interesting. Similar to how tank is a "dps light", healers should feel like "caster light". Tanks have responsibilities to mit the party and hold aggro/not die, but they still have interesting dps rotations with some depth. For example maybe Toxicon could be reworked on SGE so that casting Dosos 3 times gives you 1 toxicon, and then can be spent on a dps gain melee attack or something like that. I don't really care what they add; just something to keep track of/optimize
This right here I agree, why can’t healer have a dps combo that’s not just shooting dosis or glare over and over
I like your example addition to sage!
@@christopherramirez3003 You're asking too much lol. Most of the players in this game barely even understand how their abilities work. You expect a limsa rper that does roulette to do a combo dps? They barely even use their rapture or assize in a dungeon ffs. It does sounds nice if a glare proc an ogcd dmg ability or what not. But at the end of the day, the majority barely even touch their dps buttons.
Even in high end content it's mind numbingly boring once you've progged a fight. Damage is very scripted and predictable once you've learned a fight and downtime is inevitable with FF fight design, so healers in every single piece of content: casual, extremes, savage or ultimates, will find themselves with downtime where they have nothing to do but 111111121111.
In high end content, that downtime is a lot less than casual content, since of course you need to do mechanics and actually have shit to heal, but it's still very much on a 30s-60s rotation of when you can expect the next raid wide or whatever, whilst you just sit there spamming glare.
They really do need a better DPS rotation, even if it was as basic as a WAR. Hell, leave WHM as the 11112111 healer and make the other three more interesting. That way the casuals who love their lobotomy rotation can keep it.
play a different game. that's the true answer. Or leave these healers behind and go tank or dps. That's the only solution to this.
This is why I main DPS, too scared to tank and I still have PTSD from playing healer in WoW
Im not on strike but as a healer main im a bit tired of the role jobs being neutered so often.
"People are not playing healer, it probably means we must make it even more boring!" ~ BCE3
as an astro main i both look forward to an xpac and dread it. i am not excited for DT astro
Just play ultimate lulz
@@Quix32 probably the single most tonedeaf statement from yoship yet
@@DawnAfternoon It absolutely is. The fact that 90% of content needs to be boring when you have half a functioning brain stem is just not good game design philosophy.
Giving feedback didn't work for 2 expansions (or 5 years). Should we do the same again and expect another result ? The issue was never officially acknowledged beside Y-P infamous "try ultimate"... You still want to go and want your queues to be quick ? good for you I guess.
I didn't even know there was a strike. In my group I usually play healer so the my friends can play whatever class they want without having to worry about beating the activity we're in. Honestly I do wish that there was a bit more challenge but separating the casuals and the people who play the game nonstop has always been difficult in the past. If they do change the dungeons so that healers are required in the dungeons then the casuals who are playing with a newer healer or someone who isn't fully mentally there will probably wipe several times.
I play dark knight. And I way to often feel like a marshmallow in the tank department. Don't have this issue with paladin or gunbreaker, but I do need healers. Proper mitigation aside my hp is still shredded like cheese in trash. I need those healers. Not everyone is WAR
This is so blown out of proportion. I main healer and I've not met one speck of content that has been able to be completed without a healer. I don't want a more complicated dps rotation, I'm not a dps I'm a healer. If heals aren't needed as much I look at it as an easy run and that I get to watch the fight for once instead of worrying about where I'm standing, where others are standing and health bars while adding a little extra dps to the boss. If it was savage content and a healer wasn't needed then I would say that perhaps the fights weren't challenging enough. Otherwise I'm going to keep playing healer and when Dawntrail launches I'll get fast queues.
it's just streamer content farming, there isn't really much to talk about right now until DT launches so they make a mountain out of a mole hill
you're perfectly entitled to enjoy your 11111121111 rotation in casual content but to expect other people too as well is just silly. I also don't know what content you're talking about but WAR 56+ is literally immortal and can clear any dungeon without a healer, a lot of trials/raids do not even need healers now.
I'm not a DPS I'm a tank but I still don't think AST spamming malefic mindlessly over and over is good job design
But in Endwalker, some Savage and Ultimates got cleared during the Content Release Patch without any Healer.
In 6.0 the only Dungeon boss that actually really needed a Healer was End of Days Final boss.
I'm gonna disagree w/ you about healers being needed for most content considering a group managed to complete an ultimate with 0 healers lol. There is a problem with lack of outgoing dmg from group encounters, and healer tools being too powerful
As a tank main i care my healers.
🫡
goat
Darn right! o7
"but you can run dungeons with just a warrior for healing!" idk, that sounds like a problem with warrior, not with healers.
Why not both ?
You leave Blue Healer alone!
An issue with healers is that GCD healing is useless. Bosses do so little damage with tanks recovering on themselves that you only need to use oGCD when a raid mechanic happen then back to 20~30s of 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.
Esuna is barely used. There's barely any DoT that would justify using Medica II.
I think warrior needs to be slightly nerfed, PLD heal got nerfed in the past, but why has warrior remained so good?
@@Konokkenobviously they play favorite. WAR kept receiving questionable buffs from post EW as if they were so weak, meanwhile DRK left rotten.
I really hope this is more than wanting a 1 2 3 combo for healers, because every time I ask for what specifically someone wants when they say they want more attacks, I don't get anything more specific than.... just more attacks. Complexity just for the sake of complexity is not good design.
(Also seeing that Scholar already has enough actions to fill up two sets of chotbars, I'm assuming that they aren't getting more attacks without a reduction in healing spells or a chording action ala eukrasia)
Personally, I don't want more attacks on a healer, what I want is not spending 95% of my GCDs on those attacks. In my opinion, the way to do that is to have enemies/bosses deal much more damage overall, but much less spiky than they are right now.
@@Naryoril Perhaps more DoTs from bosses/enemies, and an indication on the health bar to show the dot. (Like greying out the section of HP the DoT will eventually consume)
We're in a really weird situation where the trash mobs pack more of a punch than the bosses when pulled wall-to-wall, and it would be good to balance this.
@@threenotesoddity I don't want to spend 95% on healing, i just don't want to spend 95% on damage. Also, Blue Mage is a really bad example, the job is simply not balanced, it's just some fun thing on the side.
That's for the actual developers and designers of the jobs to figure out, players aren't developers and have terrible design suggestions.
We say healers are completely not engaging in most content, that's something CB3 needs to figure out how to solve. They're woefully bad at it though
I want more attacks for me cause all I got is a dot and one cast. For MSQ it kinda sucks and killing takes longer. Having a 123 along with my dot would be improvement to my dot cast and redo dot after 25 sec
To be fair, recently before I even heard of the strike… I died in a dungeon (it was my first time doing it) and they were able to do the entire fight without me. Not one person died. It did make me feel utterly useless. I’m still gonna play healer though, but I DO get it…
For the first time pretty much ever playing 14 for almost 10 years, I considered leaving a dungeon just because I felt like I genuinely didn’t need to be there…
On top of that, I’ve also had recent incidents where I go into dungeons telling them it’s my first time, nobody explains what to expect, then I get trolled by the tank for dying. One tank said “you must’ve bought a level skip”…
I think the strike is stupid because very rarely do I ever get a group where I have nothing to do as a healer. And as a tank, I am grateful for having sustain for all the bad healers out there that I have to deal with on the daily who die to the most basic of mechanics.
AMEN to the bad healers. Too many self important healers go " *yawn* it is a roulette, I will put youtub on and turn off my brain." Then they die in stupid ways or are mindlessly spamming attacks and as a tank I have to heal the group cause the healer is phoning it in. This happens WAY TOO OFTEN.
More than once I have had groups vote to kick a healer because they obviously weren't paying attention, then a new one pops in quickly. Yeah, healers get replaced pretty quick, tanks are who you still end up waiting for. Best part is yeah, we will keep pulling without a healer. Makes my job as tank harder but eh, it is whatevs. Tanks are used to just doing what needs done.
This is giving me FF11 flashbacks of WHM striking over the low price of teleports. They wanted to charge people more than the going rate at the time.
Strike away. I'll take the faster queues but I support the fact that the gameplay has gotten stale. I don't, however, condone having people tell me that I "shouldn't queue as healer cause it's a strike."
I'll queue as healer. Because I still enjoy healer. But I also want Holminster Switch levels of tanks getting stuffed, lol.
As a former tank main who started healing to tank better but never went back to tanking.... not all healers want to be challenged all the time. I have loads of fun even when I dont need to heal much. Sometimes simple is good! W2W tanking always makes for a challenge, for both the tank and the healer, but that high stress high challenge isn't the vibe all the time. The artists put a LOT of work into making the dungeons look amazing, and its nice to be able to enjoy that hard work. If you want more challenge as a healer, play Astrologen!!! Actually memorize what cards work for what roles.
The thing is, W2W is absurdly easy as well since trash mobs don't have any mechanics since ARR. They simply attack :) So every dongeon corridors in every dungeon are exactly the same. As for the second point, I totally agree, but we have Exploration mode for this purpose, we can enjoy dungeon design there.
I understand that there are lots of players in FF14 who prefer chill and easy gameplay. But they also shouldn't forget about those who enjoy overcoming challenges and don't want to suffer in savages and ultimates. Right now those ppl (me included) have hardly anything to do in the game. Only extremes, perhaps.
I
D-did you survived a TANKbuster as a non Tank job?
Time for a Tank strike!
Jokes aside while the people doing the Healer strike have some valid points (Just 2 of them) they are going about it in such a childish way with the examples that they use, I fear the dev team might look at this and go like: "lol, must the winny side of the community, let's just ignore ALL of what they said".
Also I love your bnnuy and I'll miss her when you Fantasia back to being a cat girl 😢
To be fair (i know you said it jokingly) i think the only way for a non tank to survive a buster is if a sage or sch get a lucky clutch crit shield since that takes forever to cast xD
@@Bismarck9871 Well, monks can with just a normal shield due to having their own mitigation. I was in P7N, one of the tanks died, I saw the tankbuster coming, popped Riddle of Earth, and a sage hit me with a non-crit shield. I lived.
To be fair though, I've been monk-tanking since ARR. R.I.P. featherfoot 😢
thing is square has listened to the winy sides of the community before, see 2 min meta being established, shadow bringers healer simplification, deaths of smn, blm, and ast, removal of kiten, Overall job simplification, bosses centering themselves evry 5 seconds, Boss hitboxes growing a bunch ect.
still, your point stands as they only listen to cassual players so idk why i even commented
Dev team has been ignoring healer feedback for 6 years now, so nothing would change
"The best way to make things better is to talk about it in a respectful way". Healers have been attempting to do that since Stormblood launched 7 years ago. And yet the CBU3 devs and tripled down now on healer homogenization and bad gameplay.
"The players who cleared that dungeon without healers were high end raiders you can't expect normal players to do that" Xeno was playing terribly as a tank there, he admits it. He was clicking his abilities, didn't have certain things on his hotbars and wasn't supporting his team with his Warrior heals (Bloodwhetting instead of Nascent Flashing a DPS for free healing)
The basic premise remains: Healers want something interesting to do during the times the party isn't in danger of dying and the same DPS options from lvl 4 to lvl 100 just don't cut it. It's not engaging and it's not fun. A single 30s DoT, a single filler spell and a single AoE got at ~lvl 45. If any other role had that happen they'd riot.
Well said! I enjoyed listening to this quite a bit. Good points all around. I especially liked the "don't judge it from a single dungeon clear" part. I can't agree more.
I'll be main healer, as always, and I couldn't care less for this strike. Casual content is casual content. I did many many level 80+ dungeons without tank and I ain't complaining shit
Same here.. Healers FTW!! 💪🏻😎
And not to mention, even if enough healers strike so that the queue is affected, there's already the Trust bots
Heck, I tanked the last two bosses in the final dungeon in the EW patch series as a SGE because a tank dropped. I think Cider Spider said it first, and Avy reiterated it: you can beat any story dungeon with any combination of jobs. It's not hard. It just might require a bit more work or a bit more time. And the fact that people think that one of the top-rated WAR tanks in the world plus a few of his other world-class raider buddies can no-healer a demo dungeon from an expansion that hasn't even been released yet just... proves how much some people need to go touch grass.
Easy content is easy.
"I couldnt care less that I spam 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1"
@Maria_Erias also managed to do Aurum Vale as a scholar without a tank because he ragequit on the first pull, and I know that this is ARR but I still felt proud pulling this off on a duty roulette
A lot of people who don't even play end game content complaining about something that doesn't effect them in any way while not knowing how good they actually have it compared to other MMOs. Typical day in 14.
If I need to, I can play a healing job. I don't think "we're going to protest the alleged not needing a healer by not showing up" is the own they think it is. Just wait for the masses of posts in late DT where a suspiciously familiar group of people are posting to complain that their static dropped them for someone else.
Ikr? They kinda missed the point of why strikes work... when idk nurses strike the healthcare system grind to a halt.
When healers go on a strike people will just swap to a healer alt job for 15-20min, or just use a trust for msq.
@@The_Yukki this 100%, if they actually do this then whenever I want to get a dungeon quickly I can switch to one of my healer jobs and get a fast queue, and for regular dungeon content it doesn't matter that I don't main healer because I still know the jobs well enough to get people through a dungeon.
@@The_Yukki Also they'd be unionised (probably) so all the nurses would be on strike. Most healers aren't going to be striking making their vocal miniority strike useless.
@@The_Yukki I played Everquest many years ago and the healers back then had to literally sit down on the ground to regain mana faster. Then stand, cast a heal, sit back down. That was the loop. Kids today don't know how good they have it.
That's mostly a joke as they do have a number of legitimate complaints with job feel and engagement but top 1% raiders being able to no healer a dungeon isn't indicative of a problem.
@@25xxfrostxx I remember wow healers having to jump to interrupt their cast in case their target did not take damage by the end of the cast in order to not waste mana 😂
I am a healer main and I am going to play normally.
I too pass from groups that barely need healing to groups that seem hungry to take every mechanic in the face.
I also understand that balance classes is hard. "Sometimes" is boring if the group is good "sometimes" is a nightmare to try to keep everyone up... Kind of hard to balance.
First I'll plat DT and see how it is changes and all, then I'll decide by myself how the situation is.
More striking! We're clearing Dawntrail with 4 warriors, DPS can get in the bin too
why not just 1 warrior? thats probably enough
MORE UNGA BUNGA NOISES LMFAO
Soon it’ll be like ESO. The healer out tanking the tank. The dps out tanking the tank. The tank healing himself and rezzing others. And the mobs will just die on their own
@@SirKaibel ESO is such a mess all around.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IF I KEEP SCREAMING LIKE THIS THEN SE WILL READ MY MIND AND MAKE MY PERFECT GAME
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I sometimes joke that the warrior is the Blue Healer and my whitemage is green DPS + mechanics safety net. Things could be tweaked, for sure.
That said, it doesn't really bug me that much. I like to be able to spend some effort in damage, I remember playing WoW and rarely participating in DPS and not being much of a fan of that. I ain't upset enough to go on strike of something.
My biggest complaints as WHM, off the top of my head, is my DPS rotation being 90% glare, and that I got a handful of stats that aren't really worthwhile to itemize for - Spellspeed and Piety come to mind. I initially liked the idea of gearing for spellspeed to get faster casts and buffs to regen, but it seems that Crit, Direct hit, and determination are too good to give up for either of those stats. Also, even without any piety materia, food, etc., I rarely have problems with mana.
That no healer run of the dungeon they had a red mage which is basically a backup healer. In every game I know people have always tried all tank, all dps, or all heal runs of dungeons and raids. Idk why everyone is so mad. Yes the content is easy, but they said they were going to start scaling the difficulty back up. I have been playing since 1.0 so I definitely know how hard it use to be. Plus even with how easy it is I have had my fair share of new people still wiping to mechanics.
I never saw that Redmage in the no healer run press his vercure once but please correct me if I'm wrong. They only used Verraise after a dps died. and yes... they were not even sweating, but collecting vulnstacks and maybe 2-3 deaths.
Just to clear things up a a bit
healer strike is dumb, who cares if a healer only needs to use 3 DPS skills, its easier to play when you don't have to heal all the time, healers ain't DPS so they shouldn't have many DPS skills and healer skills that's too much to handle, I think its selfishness that healers want to make things harder just so they can heal more often.
I got in a dungeon with a drunk healer last night. We explained it to them cause they had no idea and they were like "shit! But I only press two buttons, no no please no more. I only use assize and (another off cool down. Forgot it's name)." after he said he would go fight the leader of the protest, we went and did the dungeon. He seriously did only use two ocd's to heal. The entire dungeon. Homeboii was just enjoying life and his two button presses. Meanwhile the rest of the dungeon party had to basically no hit run the fights knowing full well that support would be a scarcity
I exclusively play the game while drunk off my ass on AST. That guy was probably just half asleep and/or lazy and wanted to see if tetragrammaton and assize were enough to not get kicked lol
He won us over with sheer charisma. Had an absolute blast being curb stomped by the final boss and laughing over it
I don't think a strike is something good. I can feel my fellow healers who are stressed lately even if I don't understand. Maybe I'm jaded enough to be a healer in a mmo but no one should follow one path to enjoy a role, nor follow my point of view. I just think we've forgotten to have fun to begin with : having a role is a responsibility, I know, but try harding in every level of content isn't healthy at all. To do a strike without true feedback is fuelling biased points of view and frustration. I agree to the fact this frustration is real, maybe more mid core content is one of the answers. But we need more facts, playing the actual game, asking some questions, talking between players, then act accordingly.
I just hope every players will have their share of happiness. Remember. This is a game, a world you're part of, you deserve to enjoy it.
Honestly, this is so overblown. Let people have their casual content/story. Also, clearing a dungeon without a healer as a geared out Lv90 warrior isn't exactly some impressive feat lol
As a complete shock to no one, healers still suck in DawnTrail. As we predicted they would since they've sucked all through ShB and EW. At least Picto is fun!
how did healer suck? they have been balanced well for the most part, none of them really had potency issues, ast keeps changing though, healers were at their wors pre stormblood. nearly all of them were garbage.
you summed up my POV perfectly, i play healers, and we need to seehow DT pans out for everyone to start with before requesting changes. Homoginization of the jobs is unhealthy for the game, risks killing job identity.
Depending who you ask, for some this ship has already sailed with Shadowbringers with how Scholar and Astro were gutted.
I used to be a healer main but after that I switched to tanking.
I'd take stormblood's SCH and AST anytime over their current versions.
I mean... People's complaints are that healers have nothing to do for DPS, and they haven't received anything except obscure things at the highest levels. It doesn't take playing DT or a crystal ball to see that healers haven't quite gotten what they were after.
"killing job identity, we hate homogenization"
before homogenization: everyones damage spike is at very different timings
after homogenization: OMG, MY REAPER PLAYS JUST LIKE MY MACHINIST SOMEHOW, 2 MINUTE META BAD
@@hanegawamidori4081 I don't have a problem with having nothing to do for DPS, my problem is, that I spend almost all my time on DPS. Give me reasons to spend my GCDs on heals, and have the oGCDs be emergency buttons when someone screws up or to take pressure off the healing to spend more time on damage from time to time.
And yeah, i agree with the rather obscure skills at high level, like the white mage lvl 90 skill....
You covered every bit of how I feel about this perfectly. Thank you for expressing it all so well!
i just think they are acting entitled and acting out of spite by doing childish toxic behavior that belongs in the wow community
What gets me is WAR has been able to do no healer dungeon runs since literally Stormblood.
That's what's so funny. There's not a WAR main in the world who hasn't solo'd a boss to save a wipe. Now it's a big deal?
@@bloodbane93I think that’s one of their complaints. Why be a healer if you made the tank able to heal itself almost as well. It’s more a sense of “why the hell am I here if he can do it himself” so why not just play dps or tank yourself
@@TheLastSane1 Except in anything above dungeons, it's far more efficient and less prone to wipes to just bring a healer. The TOP clear was like months of effort, optimization and RNG luck for top end players to clear without a healer. A 'midcore' healer striking because of that is dumb.
@@anaalvensleben789 it’s mostly just to point to a lack of enjoyment. Healers want more to do, they want to feel more important to the team. It’s entirely valid
@@bloodbane93 Honestly it amaze people everytime that pull off, now it turn into drama. Waste of good moment 🙃
This is ultimately just the result of the healer role being disrespected by Squeenix for too long. It started back when they removed damage kits from healers multiple expacs ago, which made healer gameplay 211111111121111111. It was intensified when the healer role was made completely irrelevant due to tanks having massive amounts of healing for both themselves and the party. The thing that really kicked it off, however, was YoshiP straight up saying "if you want engaging content, do Ultimate"... content that is well known for being less than 1% of players engage with.
"Don't judge based on one dungeon in DT." "Don't judge based on one dungeon in EW." "Don't judge based on one dungeon in SHB." Healers have been crap for several expansions now, and we've been calling these problems for a very long time. Nothing about the core kit has changed, or will change, even at 100. And frankly, we shouldn't have to wait until level cap to enjoy our jobs in the first place.
The game isn't balanced around dungeons though. It's balanced around extreme/savage/ultimates, like it or not.
Then that's garbage design, when every single player has to do dungeons, and doesn't have to do those types of content.
@@Zyart Exactly, every players needs to do it. They made it so easy because even the casuals want to be able to clear it.
@@ruily276 They're not designing it for casuals. I play with casuals. Even they're unhappy with the design here. They question who SE is designing these Jobs for, because it's insulting how easy the Jobs are, even to actual casuals who can only play for a few hours a week. They fit the full definition of casual, and even they're confused with this crap.
It's hilarious to me that a leveling dungeon triggered this and not TOP being cleared with no healer ON CONTENT
I think it was more the straw that broke the camels back. Just one more thing
The top clear would be a problem if it was a meta strat and turned out to be easier than bringing healers. It's not. Like you'd have to be fcking insane to do it. And then these people will say "well the fact that it's possible means blah blah blah" no, and please shut up, go do top on healer and tell me how unnecessary you feel 1 minute into the fight.
Healer's last blood vessel popped.
Eh, the TOP clear bothered me for a day, but then I went and watched the clear. They had to use judicious use of Clemency and Vercure on top of precise use of deaths and raises to clear mechanics. And even then they were still at the mercy of good damage and heal rolls to barely eek out a victory. It was an insanely impressive challenge run solved by some absolute gods among raiders. Nothing more, nothing less
@@Hawkbreath36 oh for sure, i more meant that it was possible would i think trigger healers more than *checks notes* a leveling dungeon
As a player who made FFXIV their main mmo and wow their casual, wow alienated a lot of their casual players focusing on higher end content, and they are helping fund the game. Also, Yoshida said they were playing on an early build and it was made easier for people to play viper and picto. *dusts off white mage.* P.S. I cam here for AvyCatte not AvyBunnie ;-) lol
maybe a way to up the ante for dungeons is to reintroduce them as expert level where rather than you syncing with dungeon level, the dungeon syncs with the highest ilvl. kinda like unreal trials
Obviously, not every dungeon would be compatible (probably limit it to only 50+ dungeons), but it could introduce a level of difficulty that has been vacant for the longest time.
I know they can't do it because of the amount of time it would take, and the other features it would delete in order to get it done, but I really miss ARR and HW hard modes and would love to see further hard modes introduced with new expansion dungeons. Those dungeons are still pretty difficult, and a lot of the bosses have unusual mechanics that can swack a group pretty easily.
Would this not just be Minimum iLevel / No Echo dungeons? You'd get to keep your actions, but that would be a buff overall. Hard mode remixes are separate dungeons for content.
As a casual but time-investing sprout dps, I already have so many difficulties to deal both with dps AND mechanics, thus I deeply respect healers who also have to monitor the party's HPs and rez, all this on the fastest pace possible
All I want is healers to have more dps buttons than one single target atk and one aoe atk. Take some cues from Sage and add potency buffs from doing dmg or combo between dps and healing abilities, Anything to make healers more engaging of a role!
I think, to make healers more engaging as a role, what needs to be revamped is the healing side, not the damage side, otherwise healers will always be a discount DPS.
And to do that, there needs to be more reason to spend GCDs on heals. There is no need to have more dps buttons if you don't press the 2 DPS buttons you have 95% of the time.
I think we need to take much more damage overall, but lowering the spikes (any non-tank being 1 or 2 shotted doesn't make healing engaging or fun).
GIVE US BACK CLARIC STANCE!!!
That ability was pure trash, good riddance, nerfing your potency to turn into a weak dps.
SE thinking about removing rez from summoners 8.0.
WOW players playing Dragonflight mythic raids "hold my beer"
Going to heal my little heart out during the strike. This is punishing the DPS ques that are already 30 minutes plus. Thanks for overacting guys!
I think this healer strike will actually hurt healers. You can’t form opinions on an expansion that hasn’t come out yet about the content. And that one no healer dungeon run was run by people who are professional raiders. Not everyone does that. Yes the content needs to be engaging but also done in a way casual players can enjoy. I feel like this strike is only going to hurt the game and players more than help.
Healers when I go into a duty as WAR: noooo I want to heal, let me press my healing buttons 😡😭
Healers when I go into a duty as DRK: noooo I'll have to actually press my healing buttons 😡😭
I had to heal a DRK recently and I had fun :D Pls keep playing it more often!
I actually love when a warrior comes in BECAUSE I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT YOU. I can focus on the others and just do little checks on you.
Healers when I go into duty as a GNB:
*superbolide*
Healer: *Panik*
As an AST main I love warrior so much makes my job easier
As a WHM and sometimes SCH-- PLD are my favorite tanks to heal, because they need healing but won't pop. GNB are also kind of nice.
WAR are kind of a toss-up as to how well they manage their CDs-- they're either immortal, or their healthbars are doing an impression of Wile E. Coyote running off of a cliff.
DRK is the worst though, because they need a lot of healing and then they like to pop Living Dead either right before or right after I drop a big heal >.
Yes, in ordinary dungeons a healer is needed to correct huge mistakes of noobs and that’s all. If the team's mechanics do everything correctly, there is no need for a healer.
I do think it's dumb how little healing is required in casual content at the moment, particularly with WAR tanks. That's it, no further statement.
Have you seen the general player base ? People can’t even play the job properly
Yup, and healer dps toolkit is extremely boring lol
@@omensoffate You don't really need much knowledge of War on casual content to be ridiculously broken with healing. I'm a terrible tank and that bad boi help me be a good one.
@@omensoffate This viewpoint is irrelevant. There is still a portion of the community who do know how to play their jobs and want more engagement with it. If the job becomes too difficult for people who want to drool on their keyboard instead of learn how things work, they can find another to play. SMN would be my suggestion, lots of pretty colors for them for them to get excited over.
@@LadyBGames bro it's people like you that make most people not want to engage with stuff like the healer strike. Or even want it to actively fail.
Why should S.E change the jobs play styles of a vocal toxic Minority of players. When most of the plays are already fine with the job as is. Not saying their shouldn't be any criticism. But get of you high horse and calm down.
I think the funniest thing is since maybe 2 days after Dawntrail launch tops, I haven't had the slightest difficulty getting through queues as DPS.
Either people didn't follow through with the strike for very long, or there were never many people actually striking to begin with.
Idk, there's only one part of the healer strike I even think has any merit to begin with, the "simplified damage rotations."
Cause I mean, "healers aren't necessary/healing in casual content is boring?" For one it's quite literally just the WAR that can manage without a healer and let's not forget that Xeno also had a RDM in his group for that no-healer clear, and on top of that it's JUST dungeons, even a WAR can only last so long in basic raids much less savage and ultimate where they simply cannot survive without a healer. So the idea that "so many other classes have sustain now" is fucking stupid, yeah people want to be able to help themselves when the healer is busy, new, or just not paying attention, but the amount non-WARs get, whether DPS or Tank, will never be enough to invalidate healers.
But also yeah, in casual content when people know what they're doing healers will feel boring, and guess what, same for literally fucking everyone else! Tanks barely need to use their defensives if at all, fuck they can often get away with not even moving out of any mechanics, DPS can literally ignore all their buffs and just hit the buttons that light up, everything will become boring in casual content when you're no longer at a casual level, ffs.
As mentioned I do agree that the healer damage options have become far too simple, but that's the only complaint levied in this "healer strike" worth anything, other then that this whole strike is purely ignorance, imho.
So you agree with a key point of the post and yet call it ridiculous :)
@@hayalmatnu9919 Yes, cause the majority of the points being made are ignorant, at best.
No clue why that's suddenly a foreign concept to some.
They "can" ignore their extra mechanics, sure. But it will go smoother / faster if Tanks use their skills, if DPS use their skills. Healers can't do that. All they can do is burn mana to overheal. They have options that healers don't.
Can I, a monkey-brained MNK, get through a dungeon using the absolutely brainless rotation of 1-2-3 and nothing more? Absolutely, of course I can. Can I, a mango washing monkey-brained MNK, get through a dungeon while practicing my rotation for savage? You better believe it. Slap on a monocle and call me Gunnhilder's Blade, I can do it as a GNB too. Big ol' burn window of double weaving like a flamenco dancing beyblade.
But I can't do that as a starry-eyed AST. I'm either going to cover for other people's mistakes so they don't have to learn how to play the dungeon, or I'm going to fall asleep throwing bad luck juju at the enemies.
@@TheOtherCoinflipper Sure, DPS and Tanks can go apeshit in a dungeon for no reason and treat it like some endgame challenge, but that doesn't actually make it any more challenging, it's still a cake walk no matter how you play it, THAT doesn't change from DPS to Tank to Healer.
It also can't change for healer unless they improve upon it's offensive options and capabilities, the one thing I did say I agreed should be addressed, but the HEALING part of it being boring isn't cause "the other jobs have too many self healing options," it's cause the content is just that easy.
Step out of dungeons and ALL of that changes, no one can survive without healers (except WAR and maybe PLD/GNB in some lower tier normal raids), and all of those concerns are immediately thrown out the window cause they no longer apply. THAT is the content the game is balanced around, it's why DRK still sucks ass in dungeons, cause no one on the dev team apparently gives a shit, so healers being generally bored in the content everyone who isn't purely casual finds boring doesn't actually matter.
So a streamer showed off some gameplay that people took out of context? Sounds like the last Healer controversy. A streamer had to sit in queue a little while longer because of lack of healers. THing was that he was playing later at night after peak hours ended. Cue the "healer shortage" bs we had a couple years back.
NO ONE knows how things are going to be in DT yet, look at all the media tour videos and you will see that they all say the same thing "all potency numbers are subject to change"... the build they played at the media tour was over 2 months old as well. It is almost a guarantee that SE had adjusted things before the media tour took place. Please everyone tap the breaks, take a deep breath and see how things play before you hit enrage. Plus Avy is right, your not hurting the devs or SE... your actions will hurt your fellow players and friends. bright side though, it might bring more people over to healing that wouldn't have considered it.
It’s never changed drastically from media tour to release. Small things sure but it’s generally the same. Unfortunately hurting player experience in the matter is how the devs will in fact hear. When DPS and Tanks can’t get a queue for an extended period of time then they will speak up, the community will unite, and the people that pay the bills will be heard.
@@1Mrstephen that just isn't going to happen. Because there isn't going to be enough healer that give two licks about the strike. The ques are going to be slow regardless because the amount of people that will be playing. But there is going to be more that enough people who don't look at job changes. Who don't read forums. Who don't read twitter. The healers complaining is a very small minority of the actual healers in game. And many people will just switch jobs if que gets to bad. The strike is going to do nothing except waste the time of the people who are striking.
@@1Mrstephen There are two new DPS jobs people are going to be playing and people who play healer, mains or otherwise ( i play everything ) will want to level their jobs to see what new stuff they get. This strike is going to do nothing because you cannot force millions of players to not play healers. This is a joke.
@@kellevichy You are correct in all of that. How are people going to be heard if they don’t do or say something. It’s funny all the liberals that have been protesting all these years are against a protest…. Yes there is a correlation.
Okay so what the first dungeon or even first few dungeons are easy because you’re supposed to be on “vacation” but then BAM 💥 EXTRA HARD DUNGEONS???!!! EVERYONE PANIC. SOLUTION 9!
I agree with the sentiment that calling it a "strike" will just get things made into a joke, but I honestly feel like it's the only option people have left. I know tons of healers and non-healers that find 111111 boring, and most other veterans that I know don't enjoy the role as much as they used to. We have been giving feedback and complaining for years and it's gone ignored, so a performative "strike" feels like the only way left for anyone to get heard unfortunately.
I've played healer since late HW and still do even if I've been unsatisfied with the role since 5.0, because I feel like having good healers is a huge team asset in both prog and reclears. I'm willing to take a "personal enjoyment" hit so my group has the best chance of succeeding. For DT though, I'm not on strike per se but I'm maining DPS because I just can't tolerate how boring the gameplay is anymore.
the only way to deal with that is to delete the healer role altogether and make everything dps with dodge and self-healing included. Then, everyone will be the hero of their own story.
@@Ennasalin That's what GW2 did. It doesn't make for engaging encounter design. I can only talk of vanilla GW2 though.
@@Naryoril it's not just GW2 that has this model and walked away from the holy trinity.
As a healer main I do not share any of the sentiments. I find healers highly fun and engaging. You don't have much of a dps rotation but you have a healing rotation. also, that is never fixed.
Also goes without saying, I play 98% just savage, ultimates and ex. Casual content should be easy and fast.
Really good summary and points, Avy. I feel so conflicted on it. I’m pretty casual but also have an understanding and agreement on the “why.” However, I still enjoy healing, even though I agree it needs improvement.
I want to level one DPS in MSQ and one heal class right away in Dawntrail dungeons, and I’m worried: are players going to blacklist me if I queue as healer? It’s something I’ve been looking forward to. I started in Endwalker and really was looking forward to hitting new dungeons blind, as a healer, just enjoying some healthy group confusion and problem-solving as we all learn together.
I usually play healer or dps in this game, but I won’t touch healer during DT. Not because of the strike, but because of how they changed AST…
I agree with this sadly.. AST is the healer that brought me into raiding and whatnot. I love how I always have something to do. DT AST looks like a joke sadly
Oh no what are they doing to AST? I know nothing of the changes they are making to any jobs at this point in time.
I stopped playing Astro when the devs took away Nocturnal and Diurnal sect during ShB. 😢
@@allhana365 they're giving the cards back some individuality but locking them as set draws under astral or umbral draw. so you're always drawing the exact same set of cards. always. no need to even fucking think. and since they're doing away with the seals, astrodyne is getting deleted. so mp is also going to get fucked like back in the day.
@@whitemoonwolf13 Aww noo… T~T
Thanks for explaining. ^^
Not only was this strike planned to be held way too early tbh, I also find they keep forgetting that the devs *just* fixed the dungeons to be played with Duty Support, made them better, some got very simplified. I just find it funny, that shortly after things have been made easier, it is suddenly too easy? Don't get me wrong, I miss the old dungeons but they were really mean when you had a whole group of newbies that had never done that one dungeon before (the one with the Garlean tools you needed to collect stuff for is a good example). I'm not sure how to put this better... but I feel like this whole ordeal shouldve been done after DT released and not before and also not simply judged on a single video?
Here's the issue. A lot of people who are casuals do not know what most of their kit does, they could probably never do a dungeon without a healer and will find it VERY disheartening that they have to stay in queues for tens of minutes on end just to progress the story as a DPS or a tank. This is going to hurt a lot the people who choose to play for the MSQ except healer because of the artificially lengthened dungeon queue times that this will generate.
Duty support exists.
@@hayalmatnu9919 Up until the first trial, where unless they pull the same trick they did with the level 89 trial in EW, you need healers in the que.
At the same time, should people feel obligated to play a role that's braindead boring most of time to make the queues more manageable for others?
Sure, the idea of stirring the pot and getting people jumping on the bandwagon isn't ideal, but on an individual player level, I want healer to be engaging enough to get people to WANT to play it, and if a lot more people are deciding "I'm not having fun anymore, I'll play another role" then they should do what makes the game more fun for them
I'm really not a fan of the strikers literally attempting to make the launch experience worse for other parts of the playerbase. Yes, let's wake up and decide to make the world a slightly worse place today! Surely I am helping!
Like, no one is owed other players queuing up as healer. That's true. But if you read comments from strikers you'll see plenty of verbalized spiteful intent, and I just think that's sad.
Those people who will complain about the upcoming healer shortage are very free to pick one up for quicker queues, but if they do that they'll understand why a lot of us are simply done with the role. It's literally unplayable in casual content. Doing your MSQ's as a healer where you eventually reach a story instance boss where you just 1111121111 - riveting, honestly.
back in the day, there was a thing called healer stance and that one skill pretty much show cased the good healers from the bad, as it single handedly overloaded the healer into switching between attacking and healing. People complained that healers were too hard and to make it easier, and then they removed it because players were complaining. And now we are here where healers are complaining that it's too easy. It just goes to show that no matter what they do people are going to dislike something about the choices they make. If you want a challenge, bring back healer stance. Periodt.
It's CB3's fault for their poor decision making in using feedback to implement changes directly, instead of interpreting feedback through their design vision. They have no design vision. That's why gameplay is so stale.
I hear you, Avy, I do. But I think people are doing the strike because we've BEEN complaining about the easiness of healers since Shadowbringers. People don't feel heard. They don't feel like the devas are listening to healers in particular because we've felt ignored since Shadowbringers. That's why they feel like extreme measures are needed.
Like you, I am a healer main and I completely understand the complaints. But I also agree that well, this isn't the best way to go about it. But I also understand why it is happening the way it is. People feel like the devs have been ignoring healers. They've felt this way for years. When enough people are ignored going through the correct channels for too long, they go to further extremes. That's what we are seeing now.
Also YoshP said the changes to the easiness of the game will happen after Dawntrail. He specifically said to not expect much different combat in DT.
Healers will refuse to play healers...
Like who cares? There's so many healer these days that it doesn't even matter. If anything there will be more healer slots open in pf
Oh no it will be even easier for me as a healer main to get instant queues during Dawntrail. Thanks! :D
cringe
@@pedrorocha6044you are indeed cringe, yes
1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1
From what I've experienced yesterday, the strike started early, and it was more of a hostage situation with party finders requesting money in order to skip the 30+ min roulette times. If it was just a strike, I would understand. If you're going out of your way to say "Pay me, play PvP or sit there and cry" the message is kinda lost. (All of this was from Hyperion, Bozja is basically just dps. There was 1 healer in the whole place. I know this because I had died six different times in southern front, and they found me by complete accident every time.)
As a healer main, the audacity of tanks pulling the biggest pulls (literally pulling 3 groups of mobs) without even asking the healer if it’s cool, or the tank literally standing in and ignoring aoe attacks bc it’s the healers job to keep everyone alive is sooo annoying. Like you can’t do that post-shd dungeons
Most tanks assume the healer knows their shit and it's true 95% of the time. Are you really thinking they're going to ask for consent in every single dungeons?
Love the whm weapon glam I legit thought i was the only one that used that particular glam, it matches really well with any pure white glamour dye
This drama must be an NA thing because nothing has changed on other data centres.
i noticed that i get a lot more instant queues as healer in dt compared to ew on chaos. it has had a small impact, but i dont think it has been as big as on american dc's
Hearing people say that the game is too casual and needs to be Harder makes me so upset honestly as someone who has limited time to play and plays to RELAX. If I wanted harder content I would *go to the harder content* aka Savage, Extreme, etc. Why do the most vocal chronically online players get to say the game is too easy?
I would like to counter the comment on the DT dungeon without healers, Xenosys forgot to put various buttons on his hotbar and had time mid battle to put them on his hotbar, so it's not like he was playing well at all, he was playing by the seat of his pants the whole time, especially since he didn't have his MMO mouse to play how he normally does. He was basically relearning how to play with a different controller without a healer in dungeon content. Other than that, the rest of the points you make are fair.
He was also lvl 100 in AF gear in a lvl 91 dungeon, so lvl sync putting him at the maximum helps too. Not like we haven't had undergeared tanks melt in dungeons *cough* Bardam's Mettle *cough*
@@anaalvensleben789 That brand new DRK tank in Stone Vigil still wearing level 30 gear who doesn't know what a mitigate is, but still tries to W2W pull because that's what he sees all the big boy tanks doing...
you can really clear any normal content with all of one class. We did Nier raid 3 on release with all healers.
Playing the expansion with very little changes if any except for a couple new skills doesn’t prove or help the cause. The start of the xpac is exactly the right time. In fact I think it should have started already. People want change, playing through it and waiting another 2.5 - 3 years is WAY TO LONG to wait.
cept the detail that the damage changes are better than the END ones, unless ppl really wanted a new coat of paint on their filler spell.
The start of the xpac is exactly the worst time, what? One week before the game changes is when we need to complain that we want to game to change?
@@pagingdoctorsideburns Well, healers have been complaining about this for about five years now. The media tour is just confirmation that they're still not listening.
Also, balance patches have gone out at the start of an expansion. I don't see why they couldn't add a couple new simple mechanics to healers, especially when it's becoming this much of an issue.
I agree, but it'll definitely lead to immense disdain for healers and even potential witch hunts. You gotta remember that people also took work off (myself included) to play early access on Friday.
Obviously, I wouldn't partake in the witch hunts since it leads to further division in communities but I'd definitely be frustrated knowing my days off will be met with no progress being made
@@chelsthegameruiner8669 totally understand what you’re saying, but if you played End Walker on release, you know, taking the day off for an expansion release is probably a mistake and will lead to more frustrations than a few less less healers in the queues. I hope I’m wrong and they fixed all their issues but part of me highly doubts it
1:26 Even if your party members are new, they are still going to die after 2-3 stacks of weakness debuff, and then you are going to spend an eternity also pressing one button and waiting.
Which is literally no different than Healer DPS.
I 100% support the healers' strike. I main healer, and a strike guarantees split second roulette queues for me!!!
As a healer main, I want to have the game be easy enough for everyone but also some harder content for non-savage-raiders. The gap between casual and high-end-raider is far too big and I would love either harder optional content for groups or at least a better healer gameplay. Both will be coming I am sure since SE is always looking for such issues. The variant dungeons were a good start and this expansion was first and foremost a baseline for improvements starting with graphics. Astro played a lot better already and I assume healers will improve way before the next expansions.
My favorite part about people bitching about healers being too easy is when p5s-p8s were current, and people started bitching about how hard it was to heal that tier, when it was a blast.
I doubt it was the same people flip flopping. All the healers I've known wanted more of Abyssos and felt a glimmer of vitality restore them when they had to heal Harrowing Hell.
Abyssos had a mitigation problem. While I don't mind bleeds and would like to see more of them, having the DoT damage snapshot the moment it goes out makes it a healing AND mitigation check, because if the party didn't mitigate it or mitigated too late, the DoT hits much, much harder. So it's a party responsibility that is then blamed on the healers if they can't keep up with the unmitigated bleed. Harrowing Hell was a better heal check (when it isn't just cheesed with tank LB)
Each class as two functions:
Function one:
Blue DPS
Red DPS
Green DPS
Second Function:
Aggro Seduction
Damage Burst Window
Medication
The "strike" is really just people looking for a new main until they see healer design has actually improved. SE has done a bad job showing how healing is going to change in Dawntrail, and what little we have to go on looks like the problem hasn't been addressed, so its hard to blame people for being pessimistic about healers going into Dawntrail.
You will get your 30 extra potency on your Glare and Yoshi P will consider the problem to be solved
Yeah, a bunch of people who were already going to be playing picto or viper, but are now pretending that they and any other healer switching is doing it for the strike.
Im sick of them complaining, im not switching my main role and idc. I dont need any changes.
Here is the thing, the Healer design is actually very good. Healer design in FFXIV is not the problem, it's damage patterns and damage variety and to change that would be too big of a change considering how the dungeon formula works. I would argue that I would like to see these changes more in extremes, savage and ultimate but dungeons themselves are only designed to be daily content and not be hard, even though every time a hard dungeon is released they nerf it because players complain (The burn and Pharos Sirius to name a couple).
We have already seen SE's response. Yoshi P said that if you don't find healing engaging then do Ultimates.
Very nicely said Avy! I agree with your observations on the state of the game and the better ways to achieve change. The game needs to be fun for a wide variety of players to continue its growth and succeed. Since there is no way one size will fit everyone, making greater use of difficulty tiers seems like an obvious approach. In “another game” dungeons came in Normal, Heroic and Mythic difficulties. I played a healer in all three and never felt unnecessary at higher levels. The issue with this is that the higher levels need to have much better rewards for the greater effort. You did a video on this about variant dungeons. When I was running mythic dungeons with a group from our raid team, they were a way to gear up for heroic raids. Also, party finder only for normal and heroic. Only premade groups for Mythic. Anyway, I think greater use of difficulty levels would help alleviate the concerns.
P.S.: They could keep a leader board for mythic clears with group names and clear times.
I get whats fueling it, but I also know only 5 people are going to actually do it.
As a healer main, I plan to carry on playing healer.
Yeah, with returners, casuals who never heard of it etc., I don't think people will even notice there being a strike.
4:00 While I agree with the video, Xenos literally said in the video made in response to this, "anybody can do this" so that didn't exactly help things.
If these healers get my Warrior nerfed then ima start a Tank Strike
This makes sense now. When I queue as a Summoner the average queue time is around 20 minutes so I switch and requeue as a Scholar and boom instant queue.
As a sage main, I'm personally content with healer after having played dps/tank roles in prior years. I enjoy my flexibility when needed, but I'll admit the reason I'm sage isn't just for the aesthetic, but because it feels more interactive than other healers. SCH is 2nd for me since providing chonky shields feels nice and I love the attack animations as well as the fairy management(I know it's not a lot but still that's enough to be unique). However I was never personally interested in pure healing because there's really too much of it from some jobs and the fact that tanks seem to handle healing/mitigation enough as is... Sometimes I'll get a dungeon or trial where I'm purely a dps without having to heal... other times I'm 1 of 2 healers doing the healing. While I'm personally not for a strike, I think there's a balance or synergy not being met with healers in relation to co-healing or their tanks anymore. Tanks have their balance with swapping out or taking hits together, mitigation for the group, dps have their priorities and more complex rotations... but you get 2 pure healers together, you easily overheal on top of one another. Same with double shield heals or even 2 competant healers even being 1 shield and 1 pure heal. You go into a dungeon where you're expected to heal the tank, but some dps provide healing on top of how much tanks can already handle, it gets to the point that there's not a lot to really do other than your basic attack skill and any damage abilities on cooldown. As a sage, I'm slapping Kardia on the tank, and that will passively heal them so long as they're doing their job right(which, no one should be mad at people playing correctly either). While I like that... I also never need to hit any other buttons besides phlegma or reaupply dots.
At the same time, I don't think I want a complex rotation or more attacks. I just want my healing buttons to matter more and to visibly see I'm contributing the same way a tank now can watch as a hit does nothing to their health through mitigating and a dps gets to watch the boss' health drop when they do damage. I power up Pneuma with Zoe for a huge aoe blast? That's good, but the AST's earthly star already got them to full or near anyways. I want to use my regens? Too late, the other healer used a burst heal or the tank mitigated it to the point that everyone took maybe a sliver off their health.
I think most people would agree that they enjoy feeling valued as a healer and not just as "insurance" if something goes wrong. That's just my 2 cents on the matter though.
Sages are in serious need a of a damage nerf. FFXIV logs shows this as an obvious factor. Seeing SGE out damage decent DPS and massively outdamaging mid dps has shown how bad it is. Even during the live letter, Alphy ....as a sage.... was shown as "dps". That means the line is too fine between the two.
I think the main issue is a gameplay problem. That being that damage is the single most important thing in this game, cause once you get to a certain level whether it's savage or ultimate you already know what buttons you're gonna press and when it's about fitting in as much damage as possible. And that's how the game is designed, there's no consistent damage to heal like in other MMOs it's always in bursts or a small window of sustained damage. So the problem then becomes it's not engaging nor rewarding to essentially use a mitigation cooldown and the only damage you're contributing is a DoT and a single target damage spell.
For me at least healers use to be complex in the sense that they had loads of buttons but you barely used any of them, so they changed them which imo was good, however they've also been dumbing stuff down and streamlining jobs way too much recently which I think tanks and healers have definitely bore the brunt of.
While I do agree with the sentiment this strike has, as I also agree healer is by far the most uninteresting role to play in XIV, however I also think the only real way we're going to get proper change with this is an inherent gameplay change