Our local lumber store, (town of 2300 in the middle of Wyoming), won't allow us to go through the bunks. When I was making a custom railing, and needed some super straight, knot free pine 2x6, I asked to go through them. Owner said to me, "I believe a good Craftsman can take any wood and turn it into what they needed to be." I stood up, walked out, and I've never been back. I now drive an hour and a half to a lumber store that truly cares about their customers.
If they don't let you pick through the bunk they really don't care about you and the quality of your project. But I also think it has something todo with the fact that there's a lumberyard in a town of 2300 people so there's not a lot of trun over of material I would guess so they don't want to be trying to get rid of the junk for ever and that's how they do it
"I believe a good lumber store would understand craftsmen would like all the help they can get in making their work less strenuous." Would have been a great reply here. Even if we're able to take a 10' long warped stick of firewood and make it into something usable maybe, just maybe, we'd like to pull out of the parking lot with material that's ready to go.
To sum up: "Avoid the pain, skip the wain. Got a crown? Put it down. Pick it up, inspect for cup. Turn your wrist to look for twist. If there's a knot, you better not. Bark and pitch can be a bitch. Checks and splits are just the pits. Tighter rings for wood that sings. Number 2 will mostly do."
Funny you posted this today. Yesterday, I went to "a big box store" to get some plywood. I was in a hurry and figured I'd save a couple of bucks. I just needed six (6) sheets of CDX (lower quality grade). I pulled ten (10) or so sheets off the pile by myself, looking for an acceptable one, while two employees stood there watching me. Looking through the rest of the stack, I realized they were all delaminated, badly. The entire stack was probably left out and got wet. I drove to a family owned lumber yard and bought what I needed. The guys in the yard had it loaded in my trailer before I could get of my truck and put my gloves on. It was all good stuff. Turned out it was almost $2.00 a sheet cheaper than the big box store. I'll never go back to the big box store for lumber. The little family owned outfit will get all my business from here on out, even if it costs a a few bucks more!
Same thing just happened to me. I was cussing and headed to the door when a couple of the guys I knew pulled me back and yanked some good sheets off of a new stack. If I want pringles, I'll go to the grocery store.
As someone who works the lumber department at one of those big box stores, I appreciate you acknowledging that most boards have value despite flaws. Lots of people chase premium lumber at bargain-bin prices, and just make it worse for everyone, including the quality lumber yards which would have sold them better stuff with less fuss.
I'm 75 and it hurts my heart to walk into a big box store's "lumber" department. And it frustrates my workmanship ethics to use any of this junky wood. At ten-years old, I'd ride my bike to the local lumber yard. I still remember that Mr. Eddie would wait on me. He'd ask what I was building and always led me, and taught me along the way, to the right board. And when I asked for a pound of 8d common nails, he would ask, "Are these for your father or for your treehouse?" When I said, "treehouse," I now know that he would send me home with a very heavy pound-plus brown paper bag full of nails. With mentors like Mr. Eddie, it's no wonder that I had a long career as a carpenter. Oh how I yearn for the old days of the lumber business, although some good yards are keeping those days alive.
I LOVE stories like this! Sometimes an adult makes such an impression on you as a kid you never forget it. It can be a teacher, a neighbor or anyone but it never leaves you.
That was a good world. You'd be up a tree risking life and limb building as you go and nobody around if you fell. You'd ride your bike miles and miles and your parents weren't worried. You learned to be independant from a young age. They made the world today, so kids don't learn this only how to be dependent, and how to think as they are told, not for themselves
It was 70 miles to my grandmothers house. I was maybe four or five. I slept most of the way on the ledge at the back window of our big Chrysler. I didn't die. What a sad world we are living in now. @@livingadamman7994
@@livingadamman7994 Yes, it made me an independent thinker alright. But now -- I am retired in the country of Panama. Schools here teach one thing -- memorization. No thinking whatsoever.
@@panamafred1 It's the same everywhere, and not only that the kids have a blank stare, and no outgoing personality. They cower at anything hard or challenging and give up before the going gets tough.
On that label near the end, my guess is the “FD” means “full dimension” - that 8x8 is actually 8” by 8”, not planed down to something less and just nominally an 8x8.
I am 63 years old and just got into the hobby of woodworking about six or seven years ago. I had not done any since high school. Or Woody has a group that built toys for different children’s organizations. Mostly go to children’s hospitals in the area. With permission, I get the leftover lumber from new houses mostly. Anything to them under 4 feet long is usually junk. We make a lot of little toys from this wood. Some of the things you mentioned in the video I already knew but some I had completely backwards! I thought the sinner of the tree was a good board for a 2 x 4! You really gave me a lot of new stuff to look at now when I buy my own lumber. Thank you so very much for taking the time to make these videos and share your wealth of knowledge!
A loader at my mom and pop yard got lippy when my dad rejected twisted peices for bottom chords. He said 'do you want it to look pretty, or do its job?' The other employees are good though. I saw lippy dick abusing the forklift, too. Disinclined to say anything, lest a small town store label me a troublemaker.
We used to have a wonderful mom and pop lumber store. They only sold the best lumber some of the defects like wein, big knots and split/twists where all set aside to be remilled into some other useful products like form stakes, 2x4s and other things. They weren't afraid to reject a load of lumber from their suppliers if it didn't meet their standards. I truly miss them they always let you pick what you wanted and always had fresh coffee and doughnuts available.
@karlwithak. I looked at getting a contractors license in California 20 years ago, and the cost of doing business there kept me in the Chicago suburbs.
I always find it interesting to see a couple of guys taking a bunch of lumber directly off the pile at Lowes without looking at it (wearing builder's shirts, not the store). Does that make anyone else the least bit curious about what they're building (where quality doesn't seem to matter)?
Yes I've seen the same thing. I'll need just a few boards but the size I need is a junk pile. So by the time I've picked out one good board, those guys come along throw 40 boards on their cart and leave
I saw a video yesterday where I guy was working in a house that had just been framed. He noticed one stud sticking out from the others bowed way out in the center. He took a skillsaw and cut a groove at a 45 deg angle more than half way thru the edge of the board half way up. Then he ran a long screw at an angle thru the cut and tightened it which sort of kinked it back straight and gave a thumbs up and smile. wtf? I guess it was better than having a big bump in your sheet rock since that was the next thing to happen.@@robs1852
I’m retired and work part time in the mill work department of a large orange big box store. Everything you say about the lumber selection available is true. You have to hunt to find the good pieces. However, contractors shop there for price alone and ‘good enough’ material. I frequently tell guy sorting through the moulding section ‘If you’re looking for furniture grade, you’re in the wrong store.’
Prices of molding in that orange store are higher than at my local lumber yard. I priced 3 5/8" crown for a huge job a few years ago - orange was $1.08 a lin/ft, my lumberyard was $ .54. HALF the price.
@@maddierosemusic The Depot will sell you molding by the foot, so they lose a lot of material when the piece gets too short. I like my lumber yard, which sadly is not local, but when I buy a piece of molding there, I'm buying a 16 foot length or nothing.
@@karlwithak. Yeah, you sound like some of the inconsiderates that I get to clean up after. I sometimes have to tell folks like you “Sir, we don’t need you to cull our material for us, thank you.” I see guys pull off many sticks of molding they deem unacceptable and just leave it on the floor. Not cool! Someone (me) has to clean that up. Just be considerate is all.
I used to haul into and out of Home Depot Regional Distribution Center in Salt Lake. The Mills I loaded at would have a special pile of Lumber they took from for the Orange Guys. There is a reason it is cheap.
My local home improvement store sells bundles of “seconds” lumber at 75% off. I buy them all the time to make boxes, and benches. That lumber will really test your skills 😅
Thank you for creating and posting this. I've been a general contractor for 35 years and a woodworker all of my life. I really like your realistic approach to picking out lumber and the fact that you can use boards that are less than "perfect". I don't want to leave my local lumber yard stuck with all of the less than perfect boards, they have to make a living as well.
Great Video Great Explination Thanks Fully agree, less than Perfect Can be Distributed Throught the job. If You Pay Attention, When You Cut the Piece Needed You Will begin to Understand and Plan where the left over Piece will Fit. In Time the Imperfect Piece will Get Fully Used, believe that. Don't become a Perfectionist, it's not Needed, you Will understand pretty Quickly. Attention to Details of all of Your Craft, Especially Waste. One Cut on plywood for Gable End Sheething, difference Fits on Opposite side Gable End. Peace ~♡~
Absolutely; I use a family owned full service lumber yard. So many benefits. I can walk in and head to a contractor counter and make my order to someone who knows what I’m talking about in five minutes or less. I walk out with order ticket and the lumber is pulled and loaded for me. If my order is big enough it will all be delivered to the job still bundled. I’m free to cull any bad lumber and any overs will be picked up and refunded. Generally the lumber is much better grade, much straighter to begin with. I hate the big box stores.
Just out of high school I got a job with a finish carpenter trimming out houses. I grew up helping my father build cabinets and other woodworking. I don’t think my boss believed I had that much experience and knowledge for carpentry. After I was through with the base boards, doors and windows he asked if I thought I could do the molding for the cabinet doors. I sorted through the boxes of molding and only used the best and made the most use out of the culled pieces. At first he was a little upset that I culled so much of the molding but I told him that’s the way I was taught to never use anything less for cabinets. He said from then on I was the only one that would be allowed to do cabinets and doors for him. Learning to grade wood was a valuable lesson my father taught me.
When I built my house in California I sourced all wood from a 2-location lumber company and had to stack all the studs with spacers out of the weather for a month because they were dripping wet and twice as heavy as a normal stud. My 2 X 10 joists for the second floor varied a 1/2" in width plus had severe crowning...caused me tons of trouble. Just because a company is small doesn't mean they are better. I'm glad you explained about looking at the end-grain; that's a question I've had for many years as to which cut will deform the least.
@karlwithak.I bought supplies at 10 different Home Depots in the Los Angeles area for 28 years and I watched the lumber quality diminish drastically. I left for Louisiana 12 years ago and shop at 2 H. Deps. and one Lowes with the same problem.
My mom and pop shop actually has kinda bad lumber. I went to home depot and that stack of 2x6 studs looked like a movie prop. 100% perfect boards stacked perfectly. White, straight, hardly knots, DAMN it was a pleasure plucking them up lol
13:20 The hemlock here in eastern Canada is completely different. Splits very easily and when it's dry, you only got to say the word split and it will split apart on its own. As for moldings, not this stuff. Too many small splitters remain on the wood surface to be worthy of anything other than beams, fencing or board and batten. At 14:22 the FD probably means Full Dimension. And yes, please support your local businesses.
We have the same hemlock in New York. As it dries it splits but it's still pretty strong. You want to be wearing leather gloves handling the dry lumber. It's nothing but slivers. It was commonly used for home building back in the 19th and early 20th centuries and for lathe. In my area hemlock was logged to near extinction in the 1800's for the tanning industry.
@@grannydeen1586Very true about wearing gloves. Those small slivers are the devil. Still some big hemlock here. I have two truck loads in the yard to saw up this spring, average 10 to 27 inches in diameter, 12-14ft long.
@@WoodchuckCanuck That's nice stuff. You could sell every stick of it here. I have a few nice sized hemlocks and white pines on my property. My neighbor has a beautiful stand of old, straight white pines but it's so steep, it's difficult even walking to it.
@@grannydeen1586 The more difficult the terrain, the larger the trees. A lot of people notice them in the yard, but I bought them myself and lucky to get them. Not about to let them go :)
Just want to say thank you from a newly appointed head sawyer at my lumber yard. I try and take my profession as serious as possible and your knowledge through the years has helped me tremendously. If I need to know how to make it through the day comfortably to research on wood grain characteristics I come to you.
Here ya go Scott, here's a cool tidbit; in the native Chinook WaWa, or trading language, the name for the Cedar is Kalakwahtie, which roughly translates to "tree of life". That's how respected the Cedar is and has always been. Only the matriarchs in the community were allowed to peel off bark (which they made clothes and tools from) from the cedars, and they would only peel ~40% off the oldest trees. Some of those trees are still standing to this day.
Scott is a fantastic representative of the entire building industry. Great sales man as well. You can tell he is still passionate about the trades and appreciates what a high quality small business supplier can provide on quality and customer service!! Keep up the great work.
He's a practical man. Hes the sort of dude that would tell you never do this, this is dangerous, but if you have to know, here is how to do it. Hes the sort of man that would not tolerate sub-par work, but at the same time recognise you dont need perfect material to do an outstanding work. Life doesnt always go his way, but its ok.
Hi Scott, our local Home Depot, and Lowes does sell junk lumber ! You are absolutely right again 👍. Thank you for all you do, and God Bless you and your family always my friend 🙏.
I’ve worked as a carpenter for all my life,I’m 68. The lumber we get is so much worse than when I started! They are literally cutting down trees way to young! And virgin timber is long gone! I told my local lumber yard owner that don’t worry about trying to compete with big box stores! Having said that he has tried to get better lumber! Everything this man is saying is true! When a customer asked why pay more, I explained that if I have to dig through a bundle of 2bys wasting a lot of time trying to find a straight one, and god only knows if will stay straight! I’ve just cost more than any savings in the cheaper lumber!
Dude, you just taught me exactly what I have wanted to know for very many years. I receive it with all the confidence of the knowledge, experience and authenticity that you offer it: so very much appreciated. Here in the uk lumber is shyte beyond comprehension compared to the quality of that which I grew up with in the 60s and 70s and even into the 80s. I firmly hold that our generation saw the best of it. We did not have mobile phones and any information one could imagine at our finger tips, nor comfortable and efficient personal transport - for the masses at least - but we had the best of everything else I am sure. The air was alive with flying critters of all kinds;the meadows were rich in diversiry of flora and fauna, and if you touched something that had been manufactured, then it resembled something that had been made to do the job for which it had been intended, to do so reliably and would not need to be replaced within any time frame which one might need to be considerate of at the time of purchase. These newer generations have no idea: they might be able to intelectualise what they missee, and it is sad that they will be unable to experience it; to feel it. Thank you very much indeed: excellent video and it is a pleasure to spend a little time with a teacher of admirable morality.
When I was a kid, HD used to sell Kiln Dried lumber. Now they sell wet lumber that as soon as you get home, you must lay flat and put weights on the pile to keep from twisting. Otherwise in hours it is a twisted mess. Most lumber yards do not cater to individual buyers. Only to large companies with large orders
Used to work at home depot and my biggest pet peeve was people coming in and complaining about the lumber. Literally drive 5 minutes down the road and pay 5 cents extra and get better lumber. Why are you wasting your time going through home depot lumber to save a couple bucks?
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Years ago we had 7 lumber yards in town. They couldn't all make a living. Some started to go out of business. Then the first big box store came and more couldn't make a living. Now we have 2 big box stores and 3 lumber yards. 1 lumber yard makes most of their money selling kitchen cabinets and cutting counter tops (yes they still sell some lumber). 1 lumber yard sometimes purchases their stock of lumber from one of the big box stores. They build houses, so they are competing with the local contractors. The 3rd lumber yard got it's start when we had 6 yards (they were the 7th). They sold surplus items and lower quality lumber for lower prices. They have upped the quality/price over the years but aren't generally considered to be top quality. So where do I go? My choices are 3 lumber yards that don't really sell top quality lumber or the 2 big box stores. 1 of the box stores lets you pick through the lumber, has the employees remove the poor grade lumber from the pile and recycles it on a regular basis. That is my pick for the best lumber. Oh, they have a good price too. And they employee more people than the 3 lumber yards put together. And have benefits and bonuses for their employees. And contibute to local charities. Thanks for the video. It's interesting to read through the comments. Not everywhere is the same
I recently decided to get into woodworking (as a hobby) and these videos are so enjoyable. I’ve watched Essential Craftsman for years but now the carpentry related videos mean even more to me. Thanks!
Thanks for this, super informative. I think it's an especially great point to put the weaker part of the board in compression. I will keep that in mind from now on
That cedar is beautiful! Once had a bunk of SPF 12’ delivered and needed all 12 footers. They were all mistakenly cut at 11’-10”. Oops! The lumber yard had a new bunk out in an hour. Good service is valuable.
Wonderful video, informative and entertaining. You say of the wane: "That's where the forest started..." Nice. Yes, the big-box stores don't stock the best lumber, but on the plus side, they let you hunt around as much as you want to find the better pieces. Non-chain lumber yards that cater to contractors usually disallow that; one must take run of the mill. I have even had a guy at one of these yards sense that I wasn't a pro and he "helped" load my vehicle by piling on all their junk lumber, which I just as quickly loaded off. Here in the East we don't lump our eastern hemlock in with white wood. As far as I know it isn't cut much anymore, but it's reddish or brownish rather than white. It is strong and quite rot resistant, and I like it (my house is framed with it). However, it is very splintery. If handling it before planing, you'd better be wearing gloves. BTW, I like that you recommend supporting the independent lumber yards.
For years I have followed your channel and you always provide valuable information which is so very appreciated. Excellent! I've been working with lumber for years and still learned some valuable points with this video about lumber defects. Thank you!
Your videos are incredibly well done! You have a voice for radio, they’re well produced, and full of great information for those of us who are wanting to learn. I don’t work in construction; I’m a paramedic, musician, and horse person, but I really enjoy getting to build things at home and your videos give me that much more inspiration to try new things. Thank you!
Great to learn about lumber in the PNW. Here in the southeast we just have yellow pine lol. Besides oaks, hickory, and popular in most lumber yards. Cedar is expensive and I have to drive a long way to get it to trim cabins with. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! 15mins of pure in depth information on a new topic. Just started woodworking and only knew to find wood at big box. Knowing nothing even I could tell how crappie the wood is there
Great video Scott, sometimes taking the "junk" isn't bad. Like you said backing, blocking. etc. If you have to tske it and can ys it ask for a discount. Local yard or big box. Odds are they will give it to you. Keep up the goid work Jeff
Thanks Scott. I live one mile from HD in PA & drive 30 minutes to get to a full service yard that will cut sheets of plywood and load it my car. Their price is maybe 10% above HD. I don’t have to search for someone to help and they are helpful. During Covid, they did not layoff a single person. Hats off to Neice Lumber in Lambertville, NJ.
Wonderful instruction, Scott. I got a great education in just a few minutes. Some of it I knew already, but there were several nuggets that make me a better consumer. Thank you.
Your channel is one of my favorite on you tube and the reason why is you have a way of showing people who may not be in the trades just how much knowledge and skill it takes to be a craftsman and a pro in your field. Much respect from SW PA
1. 2:30 middle cut 2. 3:55 tree core visible (wayne) 3. 4:35 knot 4. 7:05 crown (deviation from the straight across the width of the board 5. 7:35 damage in handling 6. 8:20 twist 7. thick fiber lines instead of many fiber lines 8. 9:50 pitch (its like knot but in a line) 9. 10:20 difference in width within board
Great information. My son and I recently built a 10' high wall. Couldn't find straight boards. We ended up finding LSL 2x4's. Expensive yes. That wall is perfecto!
Nice explanations. Brought me back to the 1960s and 1970s when my grandfather (master carpenter) explained these sorts of things to his very young grandson. Here in SoCal we still have Jones Lumber which I grew up close to. My grandfather's company did almost all of their business there. And in the valley we had Northridge Lumber (now under the Ganahl flag). Both of these treasures had the train tracks run straight into their yards. Ganahl Lumber has many locations in Orange County -- they are the go to spot for the OC. And in San Diego it is Dixieline Lumber and J&W Lumber. Cheers.
My lumber package for an upcoming house build is $36,000 at the local mom and pop lumber yard that I would prefer to support. However, Lowe's has the same exact lumber package for $26,000 which is really hard to justify paying $10K More (40% higher price). I would be willing to pay a slight premium say 10%, but not a 40%. These companies need to compete.
The markup on softwood lumber is pennies per board foot. That 10K price difference is Lowe's cutting corners. I think you'll find the 10K is justified if you were able to compare the two lumber packages. I might buy the cheapest material from Lowes (stuff even they can't screw up) and the rest from mom and pop with their customer service.
They would love to compete if the mills and wholesalers treated them both as equals in the first place, did you happen to ask them if they could bring their price down? Sometimes they can go back to their supplier for discounts to make the sale.
@@samviall8734 I'll send back any pieces that are subpar so not sure if Lowe's really cutting corners or not as there is still some due diligence on my part.
@@samviall8734 yup. I get kiln dried #2 from Lowe's to make picnic benches with my students. Always have to order 10-20% extra because there are that many pieces not even good enough for a rough beginner made picnic bench. That 40% price difference will be less than 20% when its all said and done.
That was a lot of growth rings per minute video. Certainly NOT a crap video. A very tight, strong and quality piece. Thanks for helping me build my education on lumber.
Important video. The gold standard of lumber is quarter sawn. Difficult to find and more expensive. Few lumber mills know how produce it. All other lumber is simply through sawn logs producing lumber of low quality but cheap to buy. The low quality lumber has use if you research videos as this one. The job becomes how to select the best of the worst to get your job completed so the customer will pay for it. This fellow can make that happen.
I hit up a big box store yesterday and hit the jackpot. They had just set out a new unit of KD D-Fir 2x4s. About half the boards were damn near perfectly straight. At $3 a pop, I bought 40. Sometimes you just get lucky!
Very rare but that is what i also do. Whenever i go to bigbox store i take a quick look at their lumber stacks if i see a good pile, i buy them and store them away for future projects. I have some douglas fir 2x10’s that are so tight just like old growth timber. I just don’t want to use them they are so good. I also have a 14” 2x12 douglas fir from a very old historic building it weights like it is a steel beam lol.
I have used local lumber stores over the last 40 years and the lumber varies from season to season at them all. I lived in an area on the west coast that had several lumber mills, and most of the better lumber was shipped to other locations, for profit. So no matter were you shop you have to dig thru the unit. It sucks. Recently I found great selection of KD 2x6x12' at Lowes, I was amazed.
Even with a Home Depot or Lowes where they do not stop you from picking through the lumber it is often necessary to wait until a new shipment arrives to find anything that you can use...the other day I spent a couple of hours going through inventory of both of these in order to buy lumber decent enough to build a couple of bookcases (at a cost of $200. for 8 1x8'x3/4" common grade I refuse to buy boards that are totally unsuitable)
My favorite “local” lumberyard sold out to Builders FirstChoice. Whereas my local lumberyard used to be my preferred lumber source, their customer service, knowledge and expertise didn’t transfer to the new operators. I’m old enough to have had the convenience of loading what I want, then going inside to pay. That’s long gone!
If i have a really wonky 2x12, that is dry, can i cut it on my table saw and planer and have stable, dimensional pieces? Or will it continue to twist, cup, crown when resawn? Thanks!
One tip I appreciate about selecting box-store lumber for projects you want to look nice and stay straight is to buy 2x8 or 2x12 and rip it yourself into 2x4s and 2x6s. You're left with two boards with little or no heart-wood, and the larger parent boards are more likely to have tighter growth rings.
Exactly. A local fruit and vegetable store told me not to pick the rotten oranges out of the box and replace with good ones. So I'm supposed to pay for rotten food? I never went back.
Ive tried that before with a straight 2x 12. After i ripped it in half i had two really crowned 2x6s. Didnt even finish the cut before they split from internal forces
@@The_Pennsylvanian It's more about getting better quality wood than saving money. You're already investing more time in handling and ripping larger boards, so if you just need sticks that will hide in stud walls, get the cheapest stuff that is structurally sound. Fortunately the cost isn't that far off. At my local Menards a 2x4x10 is $5, a 2x8x10 is $8. So cheaper to rip. Conversely a 2x6x10 is $7, while a 2x12x10 is $20. That extra $3 a board wouldn't make sense in a large project where a 40% increase in material cost makes a difference. However for a single bench, or deck railing, etc where I want things to look nice and be straight, it can make sense.
I'm with you on cedar. Here in S. Indiana we have an abundance of Eastern red cedar. Fast growing, sustainable, rot resistant and oh, the wonderful smell!
Thank you sir. The information you have given me was very informative. I learned a lot about lumber selection from you in this video. As you say, some things are intuitive, Others are learned by experience or by instruction by experts like you. JJ
when iam building something that doesn't require good lumber i ll take some culls out of the pile to help the supplier because he's there to serve me its reciprocal . use the best stuff first..that way your always using the best stuff.
I feel this. Love the secret forest pic. I get some looks, when I've basically got the entire stock on the shop floor, trying to find even one that isn't a banana or full of knots. On the other hand, you can often get discounts on the board stock as they routinely damage the edges through poor handling. But there must be a huge amount of waste due to these outlets
Living on reservation majority of my lumber is shipped from home hardware, My guy Wayne (no Pun Intended) loves to send me good boards when asked. Also went through the racks and they had zero issues. Only time I had issues was when I purchased 3 birch sheets of good 2 sided and got them delivered with mud on one of the three. Got them replaced easy on the next load up.
Excellent video. My dad owned a small wholesale plywood/lumber business in the SE USA when I was growing up. Worked for him every summer. He would order wood from the NW. USA and wait 9 months for it to arrive. Timing the pricing and need for re-supply was critical. We unloaded 80,000 feet of shelving from RR cars by hand. Saw some nice wood and some really bad wood. I pity the day when you and other content providers like you are not helping us any more. Thank you.
I spent the final 2 decades of my career cursing the big box stores and the way they chased the local lumber yards out of business. They would put all of the lumber I rejected right back in the pile for the next customer to go through. Corporations know nothing about quality materials and the pressures that they put on the suppliers to add to the bottom line are the bane of the industry.
i found 20-25 year old dunnage in a garage at work that was superior quality to any wood i've seen in home depot in the last decade. whenever i find a straight, clean board, i don't even want to cut it because it might be the last one i ever get to see again.
Our local family lumberyards are all gone. I went to the orange box to buy some 2x12 yellow pine for some utility shelves, planning to rip out the pith and toss it. Figured I’d get some usable rift and quarter sawn boards in the end. Chose the driest, best 2x12s in the rack, KD and HT. Ripped them with the big band saw. BANG! Several exploded as the kerf began to release the stress. I saw the crowning and bowing coming, so I stickered them in the house for a year. When it was time to joint and plane, there were 6 foot lengths that crowned AN INCH. After two rounds of milling, weeks apart, the boards were workable. Roughly half of the purchase price lies in the big pile of planer chips. On a pleasant note, two days ago I found nice bunk of Doug fir 2x4s at the blue box. Many were quarter sawn, fairly tight grain. Should have bought a bunch, I guess.
This message is so important. Thank you for making this video. Really, thank you for all of your videos, this is truly a genuine channel. Good will abounds here.
Needed a handful of 2 x 12 for deck joists. Went to a local woodyard and bought them as SPF. they loaded up what I needed and I took them home to find out they were all #1 Douglas Fir. I saved them for doing stairs and treads. Went back and got some more the next day.for the deck.
No truer word in the closing comments… Support the local guy, that supports you! Love the content, always something to learn in these videos. Thank you!
Sadly, our smaller lumber yards (anything not big box) treat non-contractors like dirt. Many times I've tried to buy and the help I've received is about on par with big boxes. Plus, I never go to a big box and ask for advice. At least when I go to a big box the premium grade are in one pile, construction/framing grade in another and so forth.
Yep, I always feel out of place going to the local suppliers. They can smell a DIY'er a mile a way. First step is they usually look at our clothes. That being said, I still try to support the local places. They've delivered to my house and the quality has been pretty decent.
I agree as well. Unless you're buying enough to frame a house, selling a few boards is a waste of time for them. Not always, but definitely more often than not.
Great point ,big box crap will run mom & pop stores out every time . We had 3 ,now were only left with 1. I dont do as much purchasing as i used to , wish younger people understood your point . Thanks so much for the information
Nice presentation. But I've always thought 2nd grade wood was more interesting and that's possibility, depending on your usage. I had access to an almost unlimited number of pallets which had been used to ship raw glass sheets that varied from 8'x8' to 12' x 12'. I used them to make cabin furniture and cabinets. There were "knots" lengthwise imbedded in the boards, pitch pockets, wane and sometimes dual color, but otherwise the board was dead-straight. Shipping glass, it has to be. I cut the nailed ends off (a LOT of nails) and shaved the wane then milled them into workable dimensions. I made everything from 5/8" boards for cabinets and the doors to 1" to 1 1/4" for coffee tables and end tables. And kitchen chairs. Those boards containing partially imbedded branches milled into great looking cabinet handles. If I were to do it again, I'd go to a lumber mill and avoid all those hundreds of nails.
Man do I wish I found this video a couple years ago. I picked up a bunch of lumber for an attic platform and "let it rest" for almost a year before finishing the project and I had the most "wonderful" time dealing with twisted boards.
On the other hand, if you live in a “green” town like Portland Oregon, where the local ordinances require demolition recycling, you’re in luck. For the price of Big Box lumber, you get excellent quality lumber. Some would say premium, because you’re buying well seasoned, dried over seventy indoor year, old growth, tight grain, full dimension lumber. Stuff I can only dream about here in lower California.
Couldn't agree more about the big box store lumber , I go to my local lumber yard always. You have a much better and bigger selection on the west coast than we do on the east coast.
Scott, I love the videos. I just make small things out of 2x4s in my backyard for my friends. But what you taught me I'll pass on down. Nice seeing your friends eating off a table knowing you made that.
I had 2x4s delivered from Lowe's and man, they were so wet that they bled sap when I drilled into them. (Building a chicken coop using screws instead of nails) I broke two bits when they got stuck!
In my area in New York state we have two mom and pop lumber companies about 30 miles in opposite directions from me. They started out small but built up to nearly the size of big box stores. They both have good lumber and building supplies, great tool selections and one even has a nice supply of household goods. For softwoods, hardwoods and moldings I like to use a specialty lumber company that's not too far from Cooperstown. They come from small beginnings, too. They mill, kiln, plane and mold everything they sell.
We used to have two lumberyards with high quality products and people unfortunately we now only have a big orange box store. I could not find any useable 2x4 there, I only needed 15 and finally found them in my friends back yard. He was remodeling and had some straight hard tight grain 60+ years old boards leftover. I’m glad I building a new house. Thanks for the advice
I grew up in Oregon and live in SW Washington in the heart of lumber production. There are no stands of timber anywhere worth a damn. My local mill, like every mill now, has a maximum log size of 22 inches. It isn't worth a damn and is best suited for some sort of chip product. I am a retired carpenter and it makes me sad that young folk will never get to to do fine finish work with old Doug Fir and Cedar. It has gotten so bad that on the drive North up to Quinault or Neah Bay you will see a sing that reads" Large Cedar tree ahead, turn left. There are just not any big trees left anymore.
Hard to find a lumberyard in Honolulu... But surprisingly, one project I was working on I needed some boards, but the time I had to get them was limited by other things I needed to do that day. I actually bought what I needed online, and dropped by and picked it up sight unseen. The boards were beautiful. Almost like Lowes had a hidden stash somewhere... I hope you don't mine me name dropping on your site, but whoever picked them out did a great job.
Building bee boxes to sell and would not be able to if all I had was big box. My solution was a local sawmill with a kiln. And I have a planer and edger. I take him logs and I make bee boxes. At about 75% cheaper than big box.
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Our local lumber store, (town of 2300 in the middle of Wyoming), won't allow us to go through the bunks. When I was making a custom railing, and needed some super straight, knot free pine 2x6, I asked to go through them. Owner said to me, "I believe a good Craftsman can take any wood and turn it into what they needed to be." I stood up, walked out, and I've never been back. I now drive an hour and a half to a lumber store that truly cares about their customers.
I don't blame you that isn't right.
That's terrible, Bloedorns in Buffalo has been good, especially the manager at that location.
If they don't let you pick through the bunk they really don't care about you and the quality of your project. But I also think it has something todo with the fact that there's a lumberyard in a town of 2300 people so there's not a lot of trun over of material I would guess so they don't want to be trying to get rid of the junk for ever and that's how they do it
Well, there goes that sponsorship from Lowes that you were hoping for, probably can forget about Home Depot too. 😢
"I believe a good lumber store would understand craftsmen would like all the help they can get in making their work less strenuous." Would have been a great reply here. Even if we're able to take a 10' long warped stick of firewood and make it into something usable maybe, just maybe, we'd like to pull out of the parking lot with material that's ready to go.
To sum up: "Avoid the pain, skip the wain. Got a crown? Put it down. Pick it up, inspect for cup. Turn your wrist to look for twist. If there's a knot, you better not. Bark and pitch can be a bitch. Checks and splits are just the pits. Tighter rings for wood that sings. Number 2 will mostly do."
I'm no carpenter but I'm saving this and having my kids memorize it.
Hahaha I smell what ur steppin in
Knothead poetry.
Put the crown up.
Is this an instruction of how to drive back home without buying something ;-)?
Funny you posted this today. Yesterday, I went to "a big box store" to get some plywood. I was in a hurry and figured I'd save a couple of bucks. I just needed six (6) sheets of CDX (lower quality grade). I pulled ten (10) or so sheets off the pile by myself, looking for an acceptable one, while two employees stood there watching me. Looking through the rest of the stack, I realized they were all delaminated, badly. The entire stack was probably left out and got wet. I drove to a family owned lumber yard and bought what I needed. The guys in the yard had it loaded in my trailer before I could get of my truck and put my gloves on. It was all good stuff. Turned out it was almost $2.00 a sheet cheaper than the big box store. I'll never go back to the big box store for lumber. The little family owned outfit will get all my business from here on out, even if it costs a a few bucks more!
I find box stores are often priced higher because most people think they are cheaper. It’s a head game.
Our local family-owned chain is consistently cheaper than the big boxes *for equivalent quality*.
I concur. Getting wood anywhere else is a crapshoot
Same thing just happened to me. I was cussing and headed to the door when a couple of the guys I knew pulled me back and yanked some good sheets off of a new stack. If I want pringles, I'll go to the grocery store.
Janet helten wsu
As someone who works the lumber department at one of those big box stores, I appreciate you acknowledging that most boards have value despite flaws. Lots of people chase premium lumber at bargain-bin prices, and just make it worse for everyone, including the quality lumber yards which would have sold them better stuff with less fuss.
I'm 75 and it hurts my heart to walk into a big box store's "lumber" department. And it frustrates my workmanship ethics to use any of this junky wood. At ten-years old, I'd ride my bike to the local lumber yard. I still remember that Mr. Eddie would wait on me. He'd ask what I was building and always led me, and taught me along the way, to the right board. And when I asked for a pound of 8d common nails, he would ask, "Are these for your father or for your treehouse?" When I said, "treehouse," I now know that he would send me home with a very heavy pound-plus brown paper bag full of nails. With mentors like Mr. Eddie, it's no wonder that I had a long career as a carpenter. Oh how I yearn for the old days of the lumber business, although some good yards are keeping those days alive.
I LOVE stories like this! Sometimes an adult makes such an impression on you as a kid you never forget it. It can be a teacher, a neighbor or anyone but it never leaves you.
That was a good world. You'd be up a tree risking life and limb building as you go and nobody around if you fell. You'd ride your bike miles and miles and your parents weren't worried. You learned to be independant from a young age. They made the world today, so kids don't learn this only how to be dependent, and how to think as they are told, not for themselves
It was 70 miles to my grandmothers house. I was maybe four or five. I slept most of the way on the ledge at the back window of our big Chrysler. I didn't die. What a sad world we are living in now. @@livingadamman7994
@@livingadamman7994 Yes, it made me an independent thinker alright. But now -- I am retired in the country of Panama. Schools here teach one thing -- memorization. No thinking whatsoever.
@@panamafred1 It's the same everywhere, and not only that the kids have a blank stare, and no outgoing personality. They cower at anything hard or challenging and give up before the going gets tough.
On that label near the end, my guess is the “FD” means “full dimension” - that 8x8 is actually 8” by 8”, not planed down to something less and just nominally an 8x8.
I am 63 years old and just got into the hobby of woodworking about six or seven years ago. I had not done any since high school. Or Woody has a group that built toys for different children’s organizations. Mostly go to children’s hospitals in the area. With permission, I get the leftover lumber from new houses mostly. Anything to them under 4 feet long is usually junk. We make a lot of little toys from this wood. Some of the things you mentioned in the video I already knew but some I had completely backwards! I thought the sinner of the tree was a good board for a 2 x 4! You really gave me a lot of new stuff to look at now when I buy my own lumber. Thank you so very much for taking the time to make these videos and share your wealth of knowledge!
A carpenter friend of mine, would simply state "I'm not buying firewood" when the clerk pulled out a crappy piece out of a stack.
A loader at my mom and pop yard got lippy when my dad rejected twisted peices for bottom chords. He said 'do you want it to look pretty, or do its job?'
The other employees are good though. I saw lippy dick abusing the forklift, too. Disinclined to say anything, lest a small town store label me a troublemaker.
This guy is such a gem. Decades of knowledge provided for free in 15 minutes for us to consume and learn from.
i do not agree due to the defect he missed being the worse of all
We used to have a wonderful mom and pop lumber store. They only sold the best lumber some of the defects like wein, big knots and split/twists where all set aside to be remilled into some other useful products like form stakes, 2x4s and other things. They weren't afraid to reject a load of lumber from their suppliers if it didn't meet their standards. I truly miss them they always let you pick what you wanted and always had fresh coffee and doughnuts available.
Sounds like heaven!
Amen!@@jamesbarisitz4794
And probably gave you a couple of carpenter pencils that you have to buy these days.
Ahhh! The good old days! I’m glad I lived through those days and got to experience the glory.
@karlwithak. I looked at getting a contractors license in California 20 years ago, and the cost of doing business there kept me in the Chicago suburbs.
I work in one of those small lumber yards and I would like to play the video on repeat for all our customers…thanks for the upload and the support..:)
“You can’t tell a tree how to grow” as my journeyman used to say when I was an apprentice. Great advice from E.C. as always!
Tell that to my tortured bonsai
@@nicholaschryssafis5797 😂
Then don't prune your apple trees - and good luck with that...
@@plenum6448 you win the pedantic award for taking things literally today. Well done you! 🥇
I always find it interesting to see a couple of guys taking a bunch of lumber directly off the pile at Lowes without looking at it (wearing builder's shirts, not the store). Does that make anyone else the least bit curious about what they're building (where quality doesn't seem to matter)?
Yes I've seen the same thing. I'll need just a few boards but the size I need is a junk pile. So by the time I've picked out one good board, those guys come along throw 40 boards on their cart and leave
I saw a video yesterday where I guy was working in a house that had just been framed. He noticed one stud sticking out from the others bowed way out in the center. He took a skillsaw and cut a groove at a 45 deg angle more than half way thru the edge of the board half way up. Then he ran a long screw at an angle thru the cut and tightened it which sort of kinked it back straight and gave a thumbs up and smile. wtf? I guess it was better than having a big bump in your sheet rock since that was the next thing to happen.@@robs1852
I’m retired and work part time in the mill work department of a large orange big box store. Everything you say about the lumber selection available is true. You have to hunt to find the good pieces. However, contractors shop there for price alone and ‘good enough’ material. I frequently tell guy sorting through the moulding section ‘If you’re looking for furniture grade, you’re in the wrong store.’
Prices of molding in that orange store are higher than at my local lumber yard. I priced 3 5/8" crown for a huge job a few years ago - orange was $1.08 a lin/ft, my lumberyard was $ .54. HALF the price.
@@maddierosemusic The Depot will sell you molding by the foot, so they lose a lot of material when the piece gets too short. I like my lumber yard, which sadly is not local, but when I buy a piece of molding there, I'm buying a 16 foot length or nothing.
@@karlwithak. Yeah, you sound like some of the inconsiderates that I get to clean up after. I sometimes have to tell folks like you “Sir, we don’t need you to cull our material for us, thank you.” I see guys pull off many sticks of molding they deem unacceptable and just leave it on the floor. Not cool! Someone (me) has to clean that up. Just be considerate is all.
I used to haul into and out of Home Depot Regional Distribution Center in Salt Lake.
The Mills I loaded at would have a special pile of Lumber they took from for the Orange Guys.
There is a reason it is cheap.
My local home improvement store sells bundles of “seconds” lumber at 75% off. I buy them all the time to make boxes, and benches. That lumber will really test your skills 😅
Thank you for creating and posting this. I've been a general contractor for 35 years and a woodworker all of my life. I really like your realistic approach to picking out lumber and the fact that you can use boards that are less than "perfect". I don't want to leave my local lumber yard stuck with all of the less than perfect boards, they have to make a living as well.
Great Video
Great Explination
Thanks
Fully agree, less than Perfect Can be Distributed Throught the job.
If You Pay Attention, When You Cut the Piece
Needed You Will begin to Understand and Plan where the left over Piece will Fit.
In Time the Imperfect Piece will Get Fully Used, believe that.
Don't become a Perfectionist, it's not Needed, you Will understand pretty Quickly.
Attention to Details of all of Your Craft, Especially Waste.
One Cut on plywood for Gable End Sheething, difference Fits on
Opposite side Gable End. Peace ~♡~
Absolutely; I use a family owned full service lumber yard. So many benefits. I can walk in and head to a contractor counter and make my order to someone who knows what I’m talking about in five minutes or less. I walk out with order ticket and the lumber is pulled and loaded for me. If my order is big enough it will all be delivered to the job still bundled. I’m free to cull any bad lumber and any overs will be picked up and refunded. Generally the lumber is much better grade, much straighter to begin with. I hate the big box stores.
Just out of high school I got a job with a finish carpenter trimming out houses. I grew up helping my father build cabinets and other woodworking. I don’t think my boss believed I had that much experience and knowledge for carpentry. After I was through with the base boards, doors and windows he asked if I thought I could do the molding for the cabinet doors. I sorted through the boxes of molding and only used the best and made the most use out of the culled pieces. At first he was a little upset that I culled so much of the molding but I told him that’s the way I was taught to never use anything less for cabinets. He said from then on I was the only one that would be allowed to do cabinets and doors for him. Learning to grade wood was a valuable lesson my father taught me.
As someone who is starting out in DIY this is exactly the sort of video I need. I'll be saving this to refer back to. Thank you!
When I built my house in California I sourced all wood from a 2-location lumber company and had to stack all the studs with spacers out of the weather for a month because they were dripping wet and twice as heavy as a normal stud. My 2 X 10 joists for the second floor varied a 1/2" in width plus had severe crowning...caused me tons of trouble. Just because a company is small doesn't mean they are better. I'm glad you explained about looking at the end-grain; that's a question I've had for many years as to which cut will deform the least.
@karlwithak.I bought supplies at 10 different Home Depots in the Los Angeles area for 28 years and I watched the lumber quality diminish drastically. I left for Louisiana 12 years ago and shop at 2 H. Deps. and one Lowes with the same problem.
My mom and pop shop actually has kinda bad lumber. I went to home depot and that stack of 2x6 studs looked like a movie prop. 100% perfect boards stacked perfectly. White, straight, hardly knots, DAMN it was a pleasure plucking them up lol
13:20 The hemlock here in eastern Canada is completely different. Splits very easily and when it's dry, you only got to say the word split and it will split apart on its own. As for moldings, not this stuff. Too many small splitters remain on the wood surface to be worthy of anything other than beams, fencing or board and batten. At 14:22 the FD probably means Full Dimension. And yes, please support your local businesses.
We have the same hemlock in New York. As it dries it splits but it's still pretty strong. You want to be wearing leather gloves handling the dry lumber. It's nothing but slivers. It was commonly used for home building back in the 19th and early 20th centuries and for lathe. In my area hemlock was logged to near extinction in the 1800's for the tanning industry.
@@grannydeen1586Very true about wearing gloves. Those small slivers are the devil. Still some big hemlock here. I have two truck loads in the yard to saw up this spring, average 10 to 27 inches in diameter, 12-14ft long.
@@WoodchuckCanuck
That's nice stuff. You could sell every stick of it here. I have a few nice sized hemlocks and white pines on my property. My neighbor has a beautiful stand of old, straight white pines but it's so steep, it's difficult even walking to it.
@@grannydeen1586 The more difficult the terrain, the larger the trees. A lot of people notice them in the yard, but I bought them myself and lucky to get them. Not about to let them go :)
Just want to say thank you from a newly appointed head sawyer at my lumber yard. I try and take my profession as serious as possible and your knowledge through the years has helped me tremendously. If I need to know how to make it through the day comfortably to research on wood grain characteristics I come to you.
Here ya go Scott, here's a cool tidbit; in the native Chinook WaWa, or trading language, the name for the Cedar is Kalakwahtie, which roughly translates to "tree of life".
That's how respected the Cedar is and has always been. Only the matriarchs in the community were allowed to peel off bark (which they made clothes and tools from) from the cedars, and they would only peel ~40% off the oldest trees. Some of those trees are still standing to this day.
The forest by my house is full of cedars with the strips of bark cut off. The tradition is alive and well. It’s super cool
Interesting! Anything more that you want to share about that? Serious question.
Scott is a fantastic representative of the entire building industry. Great sales man as well. You can tell he is still passionate about the trades and appreciates what a high quality small business supplier can provide on quality and customer service!! Keep up the great work.
He's a practical man. Hes the sort of dude that would tell you never do this, this is dangerous, but if you have to know, here is how to do it. Hes the sort of man that would not tolerate sub-par work, but at the same time recognise you dont need perfect material to do an outstanding work. Life doesnt always go his way, but its ok.
Hi Scott, our local Home Depot, and Lowes does sell junk lumber ! You are absolutely right again 👍. Thank you for all you do, and God Bless you and your family always my friend 🙏.
I’ve worked as a carpenter for all my life,I’m 68. The lumber we get is so much worse than when I started! They are literally cutting down trees way to young! And virgin timber is long gone! I told my local lumber yard owner that don’t worry about trying to compete with big box stores! Having said that he has tried to get better lumber! Everything this man is saying is true! When a customer asked why pay more, I explained that if I have to dig through a bundle of 2bys wasting a lot of time trying to find a straight one, and god only knows if will stay straight! I’ve just cost more than any savings in the cheaper lumber!
Dude, you just taught me exactly what I have wanted to know for very many years. I receive it with all the confidence of the knowledge, experience and authenticity that you offer it: so very much appreciated.
Here in the uk lumber is shyte beyond comprehension compared to the quality of that which I grew up with in the 60s and 70s and even into the 80s. I firmly hold that our generation saw the best of it. We did not have mobile phones and any information one could imagine at our finger tips, nor comfortable and efficient personal transport - for the masses at least - but we had the best of everything else I am sure. The air was alive with flying critters of all kinds;the meadows were rich in diversiry of flora and fauna, and if you touched something that had been manufactured, then it resembled something that had been made to do the job for which it had been intended, to do so reliably and would not need to be replaced within any time frame which one might need to be considerate of at the time of purchase. These newer generations have no idea: they might be able to intelectualise what they missee, and it is sad that they will be unable to experience it; to feel it.
Thank you very much indeed: excellent video and it is a pleasure to spend a little time with a teacher of admirable morality.
When I was a kid, HD used to sell Kiln Dried lumber. Now they sell wet lumber that as soon as you get home, you must lay flat and put weights on the pile to keep from twisting. Otherwise in hours it is a twisted mess.
Most lumber yards do not cater to individual buyers. Only to large companies with large orders
Used to work at home depot and my biggest pet peeve was people coming in and complaining about the lumber. Literally drive 5 minutes down the road and pay 5 cents extra and get better lumber. Why are you wasting your time going through home depot lumber to save a couple bucks?
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Years ago we had 7 lumber yards in town. They couldn't all make a living. Some started to go out of business. Then the first big box store came and more couldn't make a living. Now we have 2 big box stores and 3 lumber yards. 1 lumber yard makes most of their money selling kitchen cabinets and cutting counter tops (yes they still sell some lumber). 1 lumber yard sometimes purchases their stock of lumber from one of the big box stores. They build houses, so they are competing with the local contractors. The 3rd lumber yard got it's start when we had 6 yards (they were the 7th). They sold surplus items and lower quality lumber for lower prices. They have upped the quality/price over the years but aren't generally considered to be top quality.
So where do I go? My choices are 3 lumber yards that don't really sell top quality lumber or the 2 big box stores. 1 of the box stores lets you pick through the lumber, has the employees remove the poor grade lumber from the pile and recycles it on a regular basis. That is my pick for the best lumber. Oh, they have a good price too. And they employee more people than the 3 lumber yards put together. And have benefits and bonuses for their employees. And contibute to local charities.
Thanks for the video. It's interesting to read through the comments. Not everywhere is the same
I recently decided to get into woodworking (as a hobby) and these videos are so enjoyable. I’ve watched Essential Craftsman for years but now the carpentry related videos mean even more to me. Thanks!
As a saw filer I love watching these videos. Never knew just how complex lumber could be before I started working in sawmills
After 20 years of woodworking i learned a few new things about lumber. Thanks again.
Thanks for this, super informative.
I think it's an especially great point to put the weaker part of the board in compression. I will keep that in mind from now on
That cedar is beautiful! Once had a bunk of SPF 12’ delivered and needed all 12 footers. They were all mistakenly cut at 11’-10”. Oops! The lumber yard had a new bunk out in an hour. Good service is valuable.
Wonderful video, informative and entertaining.
You say of the wane: "That's where the forest started..." Nice.
Yes, the big-box stores don't stock the best lumber, but on the plus side, they let you hunt around as much as you want to find the better pieces. Non-chain lumber yards that cater to contractors usually disallow that; one must take run of the mill. I have even had a guy at one of these yards sense that I wasn't a pro and he "helped" load my vehicle by piling on all their junk lumber, which I just as quickly loaded off.
Here in the East we don't lump our eastern hemlock in with white wood. As far as I know it isn't cut much anymore, but it's reddish or brownish rather than white. It is strong and quite rot resistant, and I like it (my house is framed with it). However, it is very splintery. If handling it before planing, you'd better be wearing gloves.
BTW, I like that you recommend supporting the independent lumber yards.
For years I have followed your channel and you always provide valuable information which is so very appreciated. Excellent! I've been working with lumber for years and still learned some valuable points with this video about lumber defects. Thank you!
Your videos are incredibly well done! You have a voice for radio, they’re well produced, and full of great information for those of us who are wanting to learn. I don’t work in construction; I’m a paramedic, musician, and horse person, but I really enjoy getting to build things at home and your videos give me that much more inspiration to try new things. Thank you!
Great to learn about lumber in the PNW. Here in the southeast we just have yellow pine lol. Besides oaks, hickory, and popular in most lumber yards. Cedar is expensive and I have to drive a long way to get it to trim cabins with.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! 15mins of pure in depth information on a new topic. Just started woodworking and only knew to find wood at big box. Knowing nothing even I could tell how crappie the wood is there
Great video Scott, sometimes taking the "junk" isn't bad. Like you said backing, blocking. etc. If you have to tske it and can ys it ask for a discount. Local yard or big box. Odds are they will give it to you.
Keep up the goid work
Jeff
Thanks Scott. I live one mile from HD in PA & drive 30 minutes to get to a full service yard that will cut sheets of plywood and load it my car. Their price is maybe 10% above HD. I don’t have to search for someone to help and they are helpful. During Covid, they did not layoff a single person. Hats off to Neice Lumber in Lambertville, NJ.
Wonderful instruction, Scott. I got a great education in just a few minutes. Some of it I knew already, but there were several nuggets that make me a better consumer. Thank you.
Your channel is one of my favorite on you tube and the reason why is you have a way of showing people who may not be in the trades just how much knowledge and skill it takes to be a craftsman and a pro in your field. Much respect from SW PA
Ditto. And also from SW PA.
1. 2:30 middle cut 2. 3:55 tree core visible (wayne) 3. 4:35 knot 4. 7:05 crown (deviation from the straight across the width of the board 5. 7:35 damage in handling 6. 8:20 twist 7. thick fiber lines instead of many fiber lines 8. 9:50 pitch (its like knot but in a line) 9. 10:20 difference in width within board
You are a brilliant educator and your wisdom will hopefully help so many others in the trades! Well done once again!
Great information. My son and I recently built a 10' high wall. Couldn't find straight boards. We ended up finding LSL 2x4's. Expensive yes. That wall is perfecto!
Nice explanations. Brought me back to the 1960s and 1970s when my grandfather (master carpenter) explained these sorts of things to his very young grandson. Here in SoCal we still have Jones Lumber which I grew up close to. My grandfather's company did almost all of their business there. And in the valley we had Northridge Lumber (now under the Ganahl flag). Both of these treasures had the train tracks run straight into their yards. Ganahl Lumber has many locations in Orange County -- they are the go to spot for the OC. And in San Diego it is Dixieline Lumber and J&W Lumber. Cheers.
Tip. If you need goods framing studs get the precuts as they're always better than the lift lumber.
THanks for the info! As to the FD, I believe it stands for Full Dimension, meaning a 2X4 is actually 2" X 4", not 1 1/2 X 3 1/2.
This is the answer.
My lumber package for an upcoming house build is $36,000 at the local mom and pop lumber yard that I would prefer to support. However, Lowe's has the same exact lumber package for $26,000 which is really hard to justify paying $10K More (40% higher price). I would be willing to pay a slight premium say 10%, but not a 40%. These companies need to compete.
The markup on softwood lumber is pennies per board foot. That 10K price difference is Lowe's cutting corners. I think you'll find the 10K is justified if you were able to compare the two lumber packages. I might buy the cheapest material from Lowes (stuff even they can't screw up) and the rest from mom and pop with their customer service.
They would love to compete if the mills and wholesalers treated them both as equals in the first place, did you happen to ask them if they could bring their price down? Sometimes they can go back to their supplier for discounts to make the sale.
@@samviall8734 I'll send back any pieces that are subpar so not sure if Lowe's really cutting corners or not as there is still some due diligence on my part.
@@Freefarmer533 Yes, I tried, but unfortunately they didn't want to compete. Really wish they would.
@@samviall8734 yup. I get kiln dried #2 from Lowe's to make picnic benches with my students. Always have to order 10-20% extra because there are that many pieces not even good enough for a rough beginner made picnic bench. That 40% price difference will be less than 20% when its all said and done.
That was a lot of growth rings per minute video. Certainly NOT a crap video. A very tight, strong and quality piece. Thanks for helping me build my education on lumber.
Important video. The gold standard of lumber is quarter sawn. Difficult to find and more expensive. Few lumber mills know how produce it. All other lumber is simply through sawn logs producing lumber of low quality but cheap to buy. The low quality lumber has use if you research videos as this one. The job becomes how to select the best of the worst to get your job completed so the customer will pay for it. This fellow can make that happen.
I hit up a big box store yesterday and hit the jackpot. They had just set out a new unit of KD D-Fir 2x4s. About half the boards were damn near perfectly straight. At $3 a pop, I bought 40. Sometimes you just get lucky!
Very rare but that is what i also do. Whenever i go to bigbox store i take a quick look at their lumber stacks if i see a good pile, i buy them and store them away for future projects. I have some douglas fir 2x10’s that are so tight just like old growth timber. I just don’t want to use them they are so good. I also have a 14” 2x12 douglas fir from a very old historic building it weights like it is a steel beam lol.
I have used local lumber stores over the last 40 years and the lumber varies from season to season at them all. I lived in an area on the west coast that had several lumber mills, and most of the better lumber was shipped to other locations, for profit. So no matter were you shop you have to dig thru the unit. It sucks. Recently I found great selection of KD 2x6x12' at Lowes, I was amazed.
Just starting to look into wood species' and grades and things, and this video is perfect. Thank you!
Even with a Home Depot or Lowes where they do not stop you from picking through the lumber it is often necessary to wait until a new shipment arrives to find anything that you can use...the other day I spent a couple of hours going through inventory of both of these in order to buy lumber decent enough to build a couple of bookcases (at a cost of $200. for 8 1x8'x3/4" common grade I refuse to buy boards that are totally unsuitable)
That’s my experience, leave and come back when they’re better boards.
My favorite “local” lumberyard sold out to Builders FirstChoice. Whereas my local lumberyard used to be my preferred lumber source, their customer service, knowledge and expertise didn’t transfer to the new operators. I’m old enough to have had the convenience of loading what I want, then going inside to pay. That’s long gone!
Dixieline?
If i have a really wonky 2x12, that is dry, can i cut it on my table saw and planer and have stable, dimensional pieces? Or will it continue to twist, cup, crown when resawn?
Thanks!
One tip I appreciate about selecting box-store lumber for projects you want to look nice and stay straight is to buy 2x8 or 2x12 and rip it yourself into 2x4s and 2x6s.
You're left with two boards with little or no heart-wood, and the larger parent boards are more likely to have tighter growth rings.
Exactly.
A local fruit and vegetable store told me not to pick the rotten oranges out of the box and replace with good ones. So I'm supposed to pay for rotten food? I never went back.
It's more expensive like that, a 2x12 cost more than two 2x6
Ive tried that before with a straight 2x 12. After i ripped it in half i had two really crowned 2x6s. Didnt even finish the cut before they split from internal forces
@@The_Pennsylvanian It's more about getting better quality wood than saving money. You're already investing more time in handling and ripping larger boards, so if you just need sticks that will hide in stud walls, get the cheapest stuff that is structurally sound.
Fortunately the cost isn't that far off.
At my local Menards a 2x4x10 is $5, a 2x8x10 is $8. So cheaper to rip.
Conversely a 2x6x10 is $7, while a 2x12x10 is $20. That extra $3 a board wouldn't make sense in a large project where a 40% increase in material cost makes a difference. However for a single bench, or deck railing, etc where I want things to look nice and be straight, it can make sense.
@@logsdongarage That sucks. Was the wood really wet?
Spot On. I never buy any lumber from Home Depot. I pay a premium for material from a old established , private lumber company. Never had issues .
I'm with you on cedar. Here in S. Indiana we have an abundance of Eastern red cedar. Fast growing, sustainable, rot resistant and oh, the wonderful smell!
Thank you sir. The information you have given me was very informative. I learned a lot about lumber selection from you in this video.
As you say, some things are intuitive, Others are learned by experience or by instruction by experts like you.
JJ
when iam building something that doesn't require good lumber i ll take some culls out of the pile to help the supplier because he's there to serve me its reciprocal . use the best stuff first..that way your always using the best stuff.
I feel this. Love the secret forest pic. I get some looks, when I've basically got the entire stock on the shop floor, trying to find even one that isn't a banana or full of knots. On the other hand, you can often get discounts on the board stock as they routinely damage the edges through poor handling. But there must be a huge amount of waste due to these outlets
Living on reservation majority of my lumber is shipped from home hardware, My guy Wayne (no Pun Intended) loves to send me good boards when asked. Also went through the racks and they had zero issues. Only time I had issues was when I purchased 3 birch sheets of good 2 sided and got them delivered with mud on one of the three. Got them replaced easy on the next load up.
Excellent video. My dad owned a small wholesale plywood/lumber business in the SE USA when I was growing up. Worked for him every summer. He would order wood from the NW. USA and wait 9 months for it to arrive. Timing the pricing and need for re-supply was critical. We unloaded 80,000 feet of shelving from RR cars by hand. Saw some nice wood and some really bad wood. I pity the day when you and other content providers like you are not helping us any more. Thank you.
Thanks for the drone shot of the forest here in Oregon. Far to many people think we are a land of stumps.
I spent the final 2 decades of my career cursing the big box stores and the way they chased the local lumber yards out of business. They would put all of the lumber I rejected right back in the pile for the next customer to go through. Corporations know nothing about quality materials and the pressures that they put on the suppliers to add to the bottom line are the bane of the industry.
Your old video on this topic was a life saver. I have my boys go through the stacks and pock out the best boards now!
Finally someone who explains how to lookout for good lumber. Not many people know about this. Thank you for posting!
i found 20-25 year old dunnage in a garage at work that was superior quality to any wood i've seen in home depot in the last decade. whenever i find a straight, clean board, i don't even want to cut it because it might be the last one i ever get to see again.
Our local family lumberyards are all gone. I went to the orange box to buy some 2x12 yellow pine for some utility shelves, planning to rip out the pith and toss it. Figured I’d get some usable rift and quarter sawn boards in the end.
Chose the driest, best 2x12s in the rack, KD and HT. Ripped them with the big band saw. BANG! Several exploded as the kerf began to release the stress.
I saw the crowning and bowing coming, so I stickered them in the house for a year. When it was time to joint and plane, there were 6 foot lengths that crowned AN INCH.
After two rounds of milling, weeks apart, the boards were workable. Roughly half of the purchase price lies in the big pile of planer chips.
On a pleasant note, two days ago I found nice bunk of Doug fir 2x4s at the blue box. Many were quarter sawn, fairly tight grain. Should have bought a bunch, I guess.
This message is so important. Thank you for making this video. Really, thank you for all of your videos, this is truly a genuine channel. Good will abounds here.
You guys are amazing! Thank you for doing what you do, and sharing your years of knowledge!
Needed a handful of 2 x 12 for deck joists. Went to a local woodyard and bought them as SPF. they loaded up what I needed and I took them home to find out they were all #1 Douglas Fir. I saved them for doing stairs and treads.
Went back and got some more the next day.for the deck.
No truer word in the closing comments…
Support the local guy, that supports you!
Love the content, always something to learn in these videos.
Thank you!
Sadly, our smaller lumber yards (anything not big box) treat non-contractors like dirt. Many times I've tried to buy and the help I've received is about on par with big boxes. Plus, I never go to a big box and ask for advice. At least when I go to a big box the premium grade are in one pile, construction/framing grade in another and so forth.
Yep, I always feel out of place going to the local suppliers. They can smell a DIY'er a mile a way. First step is they usually look at our clothes.
That being said, I still try to support the local places. They've delivered to my house and the quality has been pretty decent.
I agree as well. Unless you're buying enough to frame a house, selling a few boards is a waste of time for them. Not always, but definitely more often than not.
Great point ,big box crap will run mom & pop stores out every time .
We had 3 ,now were only left with 1. I dont do as much purchasing as i used to , wish younger people understood your point .
Thanks so much for the information
Nice presentation. But I've always thought 2nd grade wood was more interesting and that's possibility, depending on your usage. I had access to an almost unlimited number of pallets which had been used to ship raw glass sheets that varied from 8'x8' to 12' x 12'.
I used them to make cabin furniture and cabinets.
There were "knots" lengthwise imbedded in the boards, pitch pockets, wane and sometimes dual color, but otherwise the board was
dead-straight. Shipping glass, it has to be.
I cut the nailed ends off (a LOT of nails) and shaved the wane then milled them into workable dimensions.
I made everything from 5/8" boards for cabinets and the doors to 1" to 1 1/4" for coffee tables and end tables. And kitchen chairs. Those boards containing partially imbedded branches milled into great looking cabinet handles.
If I were to do it again, I'd go to a lumber mill and avoid all those hundreds of nails.
Man do I wish I found this video a couple years ago. I picked up a bunch of lumber for an attic platform and "let it rest" for almost a year before finishing the project and I had the most "wonderful" time dealing with twisted boards.
On the other hand, if you live in a “green” town like Portland Oregon, where the local ordinances require demolition recycling, you’re in luck. For the price of Big Box lumber, you get excellent quality lumber. Some would say premium, because you’re buying well seasoned, dried over seventy indoor year, old growth, tight grain, full dimension lumber.
Stuff I can only dream about here in lower California.
Couldn't agree more about the big box store lumber , I go to my local lumber yard always. You have a much better and bigger selection on the west coast than we do on the east coast.
Scott, I love the videos. I just make small things out of 2x4s in my backyard for my friends. But what you taught me I'll pass on down. Nice seeing your friends eating off a table knowing you made that.
Its fun listening to an honorable man. Thanks for the info.
Disdero lumber is great. Did business with them for years and never been let down.
Hey thanks for the info. Some things I didn’t know but I’ll look for next time I’m in the market for wood. Thanks for the video. 👍👍
I had 2x4s delivered from Lowe's and man, they were so wet that they bled sap when I drilled into them. (Building a chicken coop using screws instead of nails) I broke two bits when they got stuck!
In my area in New York state we have two mom and pop lumber companies about 30 miles in opposite directions from me. They started out small but built up to nearly the size of big box stores. They both have good lumber and building supplies, great tool selections and one even has a nice supply of household goods. For softwoods, hardwoods and moldings I like to use a specialty lumber company that's not too far from Cooperstown. They come from small beginnings, too. They mill, kiln, plane and mold everything they sell.
We used to have two lumberyards with high quality products and people unfortunately we now only have a big orange box store. I could not find any useable 2x4 there, I only needed 15 and finally found them in my friends back yard. He was remodeling and had some straight hard tight grain 60+ years old boards leftover. I’m glad I building a new house. Thanks for the advice
I like that darn near every board is that way at big stores thank you for your video
Good video. The Depot has some good wood but lots of crap too.
What a quality video!
I wasn't sure about clicking.
Glad I do.
Please support local lumber yards because when they're gone we will lose so much!!
I grew up in Oregon and live in SW Washington in the heart of lumber production. There are no stands of timber anywhere worth a damn. My local mill, like every mill now, has a maximum log size of 22 inches. It isn't worth a damn and is best suited for some sort of chip product. I am a retired carpenter and it makes me sad that young folk will never get to to do fine finish work with old Doug Fir and Cedar. It has gotten so bad that on the drive North up to Quinault or Neah Bay you will see a sing that reads" Large Cedar tree ahead, turn left. There are just not any big trees left anymore.
Thanks for the tips and your insistence on supporting the local businesses 👍
Last year I was getting 2x8's that were
So very true, support those who do their best because they know you do your best!
Hard to find a lumberyard in Honolulu...
But surprisingly, one project I was working on I needed some boards, but the time I had to get them was limited by other things I needed to do that day. I actually bought what I needed online, and dropped by and picked it up sight unseen. The boards were beautiful. Almost like Lowes had a hidden stash somewhere... I hope you don't mine me name dropping on your site, but whoever picked them out did a great job.
Building bee boxes to sell and would not be able to if all I had was big box. My solution was a local sawmill with a kiln. And I have a planer and edger. I take him logs and I make bee boxes. At about 75% cheaper than big box.