Why You Should Always Open Archers vs Goths | AoE2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
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#Ageofempires2, #AoE2, #Hera - เกม
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In the last few months, i spend 80 % of my time on TH-cam on Heras channel. I am back on Aoe2 Baby.
Welcome back.
Snap
Same lmao. Im addicted at this point. Also watching some sotl on the side
Bulgarians: At least I got free Long Sword
Spanish: Cons time!
This is why I always go scouts as Goths.
If Goth player opens maa I open archer, if he goes scout I go scout or archer+sperman based on civ. Also in1300 elo, if opponent is not random and selected Goths then he is lamer 11
so, spam infantry as goths, got it
Been having a lot of trouble against Frank knights lately, even losing one game against them where I went camels. I watched Hera’s top 5 beginner civs video and Franks are #1 so I thought I’d try playing as them and see if mindless knight spam is just that strong at my level (600 Elo).
My first (and probably only) game as Franks was against Goths. I was super tunnel visioned and just stayed on pure knights for the whole game, while my opponent spammed pikes like a maniac - he must have made like ten pikes for every knight I made. It was a bloodbath.
My initial thought was “Franks, never again” but after watching this video I’m thinking maybe my problem was I was just too predictable. Maybe opening archers as Franks v Goths would have given me the initiative in the early game and forced him to transition to huskarls which I could then slaughter with knights. Thanks Hera!
My favourite strat is full booming and playing tower defence against goth spam
wont huskarls melt towers?
That sounds kinda fun.
@@agustinfranco0then just make more 😈
sounds bad my friend 11
Hamza you're doing great, love your videos man
!hamza
if you manage to get to post imp and the goths is still thriving then recommend fully upgraded champions. if the goth goes for champions then add arbalest or scorpions as a supporting unit.
Yes Hera, you as a best player in the world can beat goths with archers, but we're mortals.
Great vid for eating chips and salsa!
Goths are a very map dependent civ.
They are only really good on maps 🗺 with lots of hunt 🦌and where the players are very close so their laming and drushing are very effective.
Sorry for the off-topic question, but you're the best person to ask since you're the best player and you're open-minded when it comes to the game (e.g. your vid arguing pikemen was not a good counter to knights in early castle age). I've been thinking Tarkans and Elite Tarkans are underrated, kind of like Poles were before players *really* put the farm bonus to the test.
I hear the arguments in favor of the knight line.
First, I've heard players argue the Knight line doesn't need castles to be produced, which is true. But the Tarkans are produced fast, which makes up for it once a (few) castle is/are built.
The second argument in favor of Paladins is they're slightly stronger than Elite Tarkans. But the fact is Tarkans only cost 60 gold vs 75 for paladins!
Do you think the Tarkan option has been rigorously tested by the top players, or is there a possibility this unit is being slept on?
Tarkans are tanky anti building raiders, not knights. They can be used but they aren't as generic as knights
The tarkan's melee stats are significantly worse than those of knights, is the problem. You're not going to muscle through pikes with them, let alone halbs.
How are Scorpions doing again huscarls?
What i usually do as a goth player... Mix Halberdiers, and Huskarls, and MAA line. and galleons and such.
GOOD GAME
A lot of this strategy involves what happens if the Goths don't just turtle and boom, in most of the games I've played where Goths win they didn't try early aggression and just had such a heavy house wall that there was no way to get in and do damage then he just waits until late castle and starts moving out. At that point it really is just a civ pick, if I'm Byzantines then I'll be fine but if I'm the Mongols I'm just dead; and I really don't like that dynamic.
If any player tries to boom too hard you can always punish by taking map control and maintaining some minimal pressure while also booming behind it
umm are you joking? Mongols have step lancer you should DESTROY goth with that. Unless goth really got good walls usually they cannot tutle. Your archers should deny all woodlines. He will struggle for the wood. Meanwhile you should get all 5 relics and also be booming. With map control etc goth has 0 chance. The main reason I like to go archers vs goth is it forces them into SKIRM and they have to get upgrades for it that is useless for them in long term. By the time goth is making huskarl I usually am able to switch to knights/step lancers etc and easily win. Goth arent that scary in 1v1.
On an open map it’s almost impossible to house wall efficiently to turtle and boom against a proper feudal rush.
@@vitasignorant usually an early rush of archers (4-5 or even 6, you don't even need to get upgrades or stay dedicated to archers or cav archers, you can switch to stables for lancers/knights while you age up and plant a forward siege workshop)
@@herotalib9556 try that in arena team games...
What if the Goth player anticipates this and just makes a mix of skirms and men at arms from the start in feudal age? If you switch off from archers he switches off of skirms and does well trade wise afterwards because of the cheap men at arms.
This strategy only works if the opponent doesn’t eco boom. This is a 500 elo strategy 😅
hera go live on twitch i cant live without you
Who will be right now that Nili can't
Hera playing chess while Goths are playing checkers!
Except for high ELO, I guees, I think goth infantry spam rewards you too much for how little planning or skill it requires. In late game, just mix halbs and huskarls and send them forward without even paying attention, unless you are playing against Cataphracts or your opponent already had decided to make 100 barracks and fully upgraded champions, which is not usually on anyone's mind until it's too late
You continue to say things I've realized recently (making me feel smart) but this time you have added some things I can change.
I've been playing Britons a lot lately and my approach against goths has been feudal archers into a big longsword push in castle age to try and nuke their base with infantry. Nobody expects the British longswords 11.
I have not been taking advantage of that early castle age window against them like you suggest. I underestimate my xbows in early castle and think I need to switch out of them asap. Xbow timing goes out the window.
The most dangerous part of the goths is not the imp spam. It's the early aggression thanks to their hunt bonus and unit discounts. So I already know opening archers is good to stop this. But maybe I won't be in as big a hurry to transition out of them after watching this video.
Also if you are Britons with the Extra Range you also kinda counter Skirms. So you advantage it's even bigger
Guys pro tip if you are playing goths always open skirms!
Noob question: What's the best way to stop a Sicilian donjon rush, specifically in a team game? Just hold on and wait for the pocket to help? Have the pocket go raid their base since all their eco is at my base? Immediately start building up some archers to kill the serjeants before they get up their donjons? I got cheesed by it last night and I felt like it was a very preventable or counter-able scenario, but my pocket wasn't very helpful either. lol
As a donjon player. 1) Don't be scared to attack or even vill rush the donjon its not that strong 2) Knights. 3) Serjeants are slow so use mobility. Pocket can best help with defensive castle or knights.
Most important is just don’t panic
Just try to get to castle without losing to many units and the a couple monks or knights plus some siege
@@CardsPride15 Sounds as simple as playing against a trush but then at some point every sergeant alreadyon the field gets a major stat buff.
Castle age sergeants are only slightly weaker than knights. They have very good stats on age up. So there's one more power spike to deal with that you wouldn't have with a regular tower rush.
wouldnt any goth player with a brain see the archer mass or just range in general and start making skirms?
goths just want to survive till mid or late castle and skirms would definitely force out siege or stables
Forcing them to add Skirm delays the Huskarl transition. And if you can force Elite Skirm that's good too as it's kind of a waste of res for Goths when they're trying to transition to an anti-archer Unique Unit as they'll be doubling up on Archer counters.
Adding a stable is also not bad for you as Knight + Crossbow is a good combo early Castle against Goths as it makes pure Pike or pure Huskarl play difficult.
@@EchelonFisher Difference is if they're going straight archer and you scout it, you dont need as many skirms to counter it or stave it off. Huskarl transition is always going to be delayed its better that it happens with no to low eco damage rather than losing trying to be greedy.
Any person who tries to go naked FC into huskarl as goths on any even semi open map will never make it there unless its like 750 elo or something where build orders dont matter.
The goth player is always going to have to make something first, the goth player knows whatever they make will never finish the opponent or even do significant damage unless their opponent is braindead and allows something like knights free access to a woodline and doesnt react.
So if you KNOW archers are coming, you just make skirms. Its probably the most cost effective unit to stall with especially as you're likely heavy on food anyway because everything you aim to make as goths uses it.
Knight xbow makes sense in specific civ matchups - usually when huskarls arent the play. Like against Armenians or something.
But what if I'm playing the Spanish though?
then you CONSTRUIR
SUUUPREEEMACYY
This is great Hera but Bulgarians cannot make crossbows
You got free updrage on infantry, MAA WARRR
@Hera, Heavy goth player here. I am happy if in a 1vs1 the player goes archers. With the hunt bonus you can (mid elo level here) go into fully upgrades feudal scouts. I usually go pretty late into feudal like 26 to 28 vills and can afford the upgrades and w stable scouts opening. (with bloodlines). This in comparison forces the engagement with the archers. (kill the mass before he can go to crossbows) and then sometimes can go on the counter offensive. Sure you then have a late castle age but then it means you eco is untouched. Even if he spreads in pikes I find with enough numbers it is fine. Then transition into boom delay with light cav any counter keep enemy off guard until infrantry in late castle\early imp.
Why would you delay feudal so much?
@zachariastsampasidis8880 I completely glanced over that detail. Even a 1000 would crush 27 pop scouts. It sounds so bad.
Can't even build defensive towers in dark age. Can you even stonewall? How would you survive?
Because it does actually work. You only need to react to the opponent play. You have the eco to have options. I am sure it may not be a high elo option but definately in mid elo it works. So how come I am 1200 with this type of play? everything is defendable early on.
Even at 850 elo going feudal that late will be punished by the 50% of players that have a decent dark age build order.
I don't know how someone that goes feudal that late thinks they should be giving hera advice...
@@1985tris1 >1200
>Mid elo
You can stop posting friend and go to sleep
Bro low elo players can never do this.