What if the Schlieffen Plan Succeeded? (feat. The Great War)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- The daring Schlieffen Plan was Germany's plan to fight a two front war in the West and East. However it failed and the Western Front devolved into trench warfare. What if it succeeded? Here is one scenario.
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"Fortunately once the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated.."
What words to take out of context.
Yes
u and i
A great episode! Thanks a lot Cody, it was great fun working with you. We can't wait for part 2!
you're channel is great! I just found it.
+YugoslavianHeros 1943 Thank you and welcome!
+The Great War Thanks! Your episode was fantastic! It was fun working with you too!
AlternateHistoryHub hey can you post more? I love ur channel too!
+The Great War One little error I think should be mentioned is that when you mentioned the victorious central powers you showed the Ottoman empire. Now had the war been a few month I doubt the empire would really be involved and I think the ottoman empire would be seen as a backwards empire that couldn't be counted as one of the great semi western powers. Also I think that he British empire would still jump on the band wagon and grab a piece of the pie when the Ottoman empire collapse. It's nice to see my two favourite history channels working together. What next you and extra credits going to do a joint video.
at least Indy's hair survived the cross over
Ikr
CCs Welding Hell yee
I think the plan failed because of Verdun's server lag
Lmao
Probably
lol
well to be fair the update just came out soo.....Germany didn't have a chance
I just came from a Super Bunnyhop video on the subject. Craaaazy.
‘I don’t want to oversimplify this scenario.’
This enraged OverSimplified, who punished Cody severely.
Which led to more economic downturn
@@qsummerss economic downturn? There’s a tax for that!
Taxing people for economic downturn? TO THE GUILLOTINE
@@mariansabrdella6588 thats anti-revolutionaty. To the guilleotine.
@@zawarudo1161 Dude, Uncool.
What if WW1 was the war that ended all wars?
we wouldn't be here?
what do you mean?
we wouldn't be at war?
+Dauntless Assassin he means that after WW1 there was never a war ever again
think about population
ww1 germany: Defeats russia and loses to france
ww2 germany: Defeats france and loses to russia
Ww3: allies with russia, defeats france & looses to (not yet existing) austria 2
no it's
ww1 germany: 40 km form paris
ww2 germany: 40 km from moscow
ww3 germany: 40 km from washington
ww1: loses to USA
ww2: loses to USA
@@DawPlayGamesPL ww3: wins agains usa
@@wolfy1398 A decent plottwist
So, the Schlieffen Plan was basically Blitzkrieg but without aircraft or tanks?
RRW no, Blitzkrieg is more complicated than just fast warfare. If your interested go read it up online.
RRW Those are very important to accomplish Blitzkrieg, the combination of vehicles and aircraft, tanks and ground forces coordinating a full on assault and never looking back. But it may have been influenced by the Stoßtrupp and small German units in ww1 who were very light, fast and very strong with as many grenades as they could carry.
As someone who doesn't know about German soldiers, I'm currently imagining a bunch of mad naked blonde guys, with bandoliers of stick grenades, just charging across no mans land.
sm901ftw Lol not exactly that but you get the idea
I'm scarred for life
The Great War channel needs more subs. It's amazing.
+aSecondCaesar Thanks a lot!
I'm just starting to learn history on my countries best university in the field! Thanks for the resources and chance to get more knowledge!
Amen to that. This video lead me to that channel and I'm ever so glad I saw it.
"The Schlieffen Plan did not account for one thing: Ameri... just kidding". That made my day.
What If America joined the central powers?
Noah Lonaker The Allies would be back attacked and would lose.
The Ententes navies would make that pretty difficult to do. America's fleet was better than it used to be, but Britains Navy was still stronger at the time, and the German fleet was locked up in port for a lot of the war. Crossing the Atlantic with enough troops to properly invade would be very hard to do.
Personally I think the bigger problem would be the war between Canada and the US. Canadian troops and supplies bound for the western front would be kept home to hold off the US.
sm901ftw But by then, America would have far much more supplies, then would be able to raid Canada of any extra supplies, so they could take on the British navy.
Why would the US have more supplies if they joined the Central powers? The British were already seizing most cargo bound between the US and Germany IOTL, so it's not like trade with them would help much.
And any supplies they gain by raiding/conquering Canada would be worth far less, in the short term, than the US would spend actually fighting Canada. By the time the US had beaten Canada, prepared its forces and built up its fleet enough to challenge the Royal Navy, theres a good chance the war in Europe would already be over one way or the other. If the Entente won the isolationist US isn't going to bother fighting the British and French on its own for no benefit.
However the US would hurt the Entente by denying it a big trading partner and US/Canadian troops.
Well, it would have helped a ton if Germany had:
1-Not invested heavily in its navy. (angered British, was utterly useless and a resource drain)
2-Not rushed so many troops out of the Western front to fight the Russians as it panicked and generals resigned.
3-Mobilized early, rather than later.
4-Not underestimated the Belgium resistance.
5-Offered Italy land, doesn't matter if in Africa, France or wherever necessary to get it into the war.
6-Launched unrestricted submarine warfare from day one.
...
They underestimate the French army in 1914, they were near of Paris then they advanced south to encircle the french army, but there were a french force in paris that threatened the germans forcing them to retreat. I think that it's called "The Battle of Marne"
@@sopmodo8122 the only reason why germany did not try to take paris was because the first german army that protected the flank of the second moved away from paris to maintain contact with it and continue with the encirclement
What if Napoleon never decide to invade Russia.
+Spray And Pray good idea
Those are two different things.
+TwinsPlay Tekkit yea like he said that's 2 different things not coming into power is not coming into power, not invading Russia is building up power and not losing power
Russia was not the devastating defeat for Napoleon as everything thinks it is. Napoleon was able to rebuilt the Grande Armee up to it's former strength right afterwards, the only problem is that Napoleon so tapped the available manpower, that he was not able to replenishes any losses, and the epic Battle of Leipzig was not a decisive victory for the French.
Which can be traced from invading Russia.
The Schleifen plan did succeed, we called that WW2
+lord alrubaie the Germans knew that the allies would expect them to go through belgium again. So, they sent a small force to distract them and make them bring all their forces up to the line only to have the main army go behind them and force the allied armies to Dunkirk.
Love ya
yet they still lost
Germany/Prussia defeated France in a few weeks in the 1870 war, and in 1940. Only in 1914 did the war become one of protracted trench warfare - could this have been avoided by a top calibre general on either side?
Interesting, except Britain was already an ally of France and Russia by 1914 in all but name, because of Germany's rapid naval expansion program which was seen in Britain as a mortal threat pushed the British into French and Russian arms. There were already agreements and understandings between these countries in case of German aggression. All Belgium did was provide a noble figleaf to cover British imperial interests.
@@TheRichardSpearman possibly. The main problem.with their plan was not British intervention, that was likely anyway for numerous other reasons, it was they never committed to it and in fact weakened their western armies because of largely ridiculous fears of Russian invasion. The Germans stripped 4 corps from The west to send east, even though two of them never saw combat before The Russians were crushed at Tannenburg. Those troops might have been the slight edge needs to defeat the French and the British before Paris, and at least temporarily destabilize the western front. Unlike WWII, I doubt France would have collapsed and would have fought on as they did after Paris was encircled and much of northern France was occupied during the Franco Prussian War
But it would have put the allies way back.
Quick recap of why Schlieffen failed:
-Trench warfare
-Russia was nearly fully mobilised when Germany invaded France
Trench warfare was consequence of failour of Shliffen plan.
Uk too
Not really. Entrenched combat lines along the front were only established once the initial German push got bogged down. And the Russian Army was only combat-ready near the front, not to mention they were still technologically and strategically behind (e.g. the Russians transmitted their battle plans using *uncoded* messages, so the Germans knew almost everything), which is why the German Eastern front saw so many successful counterattacks & achieved astonishing results like having an entire Russian army surrender after a failed assault into German territory. The Schlieffen Plan failed because of various reasons, such as:
-- it was scaled back from its original inception due to caution, preventing the use of important railway systems, lowering the German force density, and slowing the overall operation down
-- Belgium resistance tied down the advancing force for crucial days, which could've allowed the Germans to complete their encircling attack (doubly so because the French actually didn't know about the northern force until *after* they launched an attack of their own on the east. The French army could've been shattered if the northern force was able to strike from behind like they originally planned).
-- Great Britain joining the allied cause. The British Expeditionary Force that landed in the middle of the German advance gave the defenders much needed backup, without which they may not have been able to halt the final German push (Britain technically wasn't at war with Germany while these initial events were taking place, they only joined after Berlin ignored London's demand that they withdraw from Belgium).
@@HeyImLucious Do not forget austria hungary have a way below expected performance during the war.This led to german high comand overreacting.
The great war AND alternate historyhub?
*THEORIST BONER*
RaYze dark ikr
Just need MatPat
@RaYze dark Game Theory: History Edition
Taking going to “the hub” on a whole new level
A Game Th- oh wait.
Same
But that's just a theory. AN ALTERNATE HISTORY THEORY.
Thanks for watching!
i am glad i watch him
hey i think it would be funny if Alternate History Hub watch game theroy too.
I loved that part!
What if the Irish Famine never happened
JFK wouldn't be president of the U.S that's a fact
We would be living on Mars
I'd love that
YES
+Colic Shark What if Poland lost to the Bolsheviks in 1920 ?
Interesting video, but I think you overstate the Schlieffen Plan's problems. IOTL the Germans very nearly reached France, so not a lot would have to change to get them there. A few options:
- Slightly weaker Belgian resistance
- No French "taxi brigade'
- Slower English decision to get involved
- No German modifications to shift forces East before the war
And, though the plan was conceived without the idea of UK involvement, the UK getting involved didn't (by itself) doom the Germans. Had the Germans gotten to Paris before (or despite) early UK involvement, the French might have bowed out. In that scenario, the Brits aren't likely to try to "go it alone." So peace might break out early.
But the plan relies on immediately securing peace in the West. Problem is with Britain in the Entente that wouldn't happen for years, even if they couldn't properly counter-invade (ik he said Britain stays out of it but that still makes zero sense, we were in the Entente and we wanted that war). Unless I'm missing something the plan would still probably fail without Russia falling to the revolution, but there's no way the Germans could know that'd happen before the war began.
sm901ftw: I (obviously) disagree. The UK wasn't really dedicated to directly participating until immediately before war started and they only had a few forces in France (though they were significant). If France was quickly pushed out of the war, the UK might still stay at war, but I can't see them launching a D-Day style invasion into France to get forces there -- they'd likely limit involvement to naval and colonial actions.
Additionally, the Germans beat the Russians pretty soundly multiple times before the Russian Revolution (it's a key factor leading to the revolution). If the French surrendered early, the Russians (already reeling from German victories in the East) would seek peace quickly, especially since their main treaty was with France. If Russia does get peace early that might even avoid/delay/change the revolution.
jahenders I've since been told the Entente wasn't a defensive alliance between all three nations like I thought, so I agree with your point to some extent at least now. If Germany invaded france I can't see the BE letting it off scot free. That said if they were quick enough to knock out France it might be enough to stop a declaration of war.
I know Germany beat Russia a lot in WW1, but when the plan was proposed there was no guarantee that Russia would be beaten even if it was successful. While Russia would likely surrender quickly if both France and it had been defeated, if France fell but Russia made gains they could still continue. It's no longer a war on two fronts though, so I guess that would be good enough even if Russia did keep fighting.
jahenders aa
Totally agree jahenders
I think WWII could have occur by the creation of a fascist France, with an "Adolphe Albert" like what happened to Germany in our world.
Or Abradolf Lincler. No wait.. Thats for fascist USA..
Lol, nice name, but I don't see any way for US to be fascist at this time ^^
It was a joke and the name was a refrence.
I know I know ^^
Adolphe albert... AlterHis ?
i love how cute the people look
Gay
Ryan Dugan look into oversimplified history
@@witty2898 I bet u play fOrtNiTE
I had remember reading a book for my in depth German history class in college.. The book had said something to the effect that when the Schlieffen Plan was even at full strength, it still was way overly ambitious with what it set out to do, even at those max manpower levels.
no communist russia, since germany wouldn't have had to send lenin back to start trouble
CCs Welding Germany's defeat in WW1 was the worst mistake in history
that game theory reference tho
That made me laugh so hard...
same
Do You know a perfect alternate history game. yes you name it Paradox Crusader kings, Europa Universalis, and my personal favorite Victoria
Isaac Roe XD
... and OverSimplified reference.
Just watched The Great War's video.
lol
+Neutral JB No lol. That is not what lol means. You do not say "lol" when there is absolutely nothing funny about the comment. Got it?
+Lord Marcellus lol
+Lord Marcellus lmao
+Gustavo Sautter lol
I'm watching this in 2019, and Cody's voice is a lot deeper now.
Better mic i suppose, compare his 2014 videos and it sounds even higher, but with lower quallity.
So Indy has Collaborated with Sabaton, Paradox, and Cody. What a legend
4:01 I expected the "NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION" meme
The Great War is probably the best Historical TH-cam channel. It covers the war Week By Week in chronological order on the 100th year anniversary of that week. Every important figure, the battles, politics, equipment, tactics, strategy, and weapons. The structure and detail of the shown is a marvel to behold alone.
then i have to check it out ... now more than ever cos battlefield 1 is comming .
+Konstantinos Merikakis Greatest historical show on TH-cam.
>week by week
My god, I thought I was nerdy
@@Aurelian369_ lol They're onto WWII Now
The assassination of Franz Ferdinand directly led to the creation of Hentai.
well, not *directly*
Kind off actually
Little Nero singing PADORU PADORU Franz dies, world war 1 begins, world war 1 ends, world war 2 begins with the axis powers and imperial Japanese expansion, imperial Japanese attack America, America glasses japan, Japan rebuilds, hentai
Something like that
@Little Nero singing PADORU PADORU because WW1 Lead to WW2 which lead to nuking of Japan
Yes, it goes that far back
i swear to god your little animation people are adorable.
*We’d all be speaking German and eating peffrpothast all the time*
Spaceorca dude uncool
@@prallel 😡
GB Prallel
You’re uncool, stfu
nice video as allways, I'll wait for part II :)
+alternatehistorypt Thanks!
I love ur vids
+AlternateHistoryHub I love ur vids
nope disagree he was only one man if he not there a other will take his place in history
there more then one group of guys they try to kill him (but only one movie about that) and goering :D No not him he was in the army not in the reichstag but there are a lot of simular persons like adi @ the same time ..he let them eliminate, so if he not there this group have take the same way ...and the plan to the end was to push back the soviets @ all cost no one wont to go to sibira into a gulag and die there ps: staufenberg was not a hero he was one of the inner circle, a guy that not makes his uniform dirty if he wont him death then he takes his luga and one shoot from 3m in hitlers head ..he only wont more power in the time after the war but he dident wont to pay the price a real royal that staufenberg (freiherr, Baron)
Am I the only one that noticed Reichtangle?
+The General Harith 8:23
+Henry Boyer Ich did, Now is Anschluss Zeit
Orh ja!!
I luv polandball :D
Guten tag
Very interesting video and well thought out. Well done. Please do more videos about WWI as I am currently studying this war and time in history.
indy has really grown hasn't he...collabing with cody to getting with Sabaton. its kinda beautiful
If it vas successful, zen ve voot prrrrrrobably all be typink in Cherman accents.
+Mr K Das wäre furchtbar, nicht? ;)
+Mr K Ja uberdeutchland uber alles!
I'm of German descent btw 😃
+Born2Rock Gamer me too
+Mr K aksents
1) Austria-Hungary Annexes Serbia and parts of South Western Russia
2) Ottomans take French North African territory and expand in the Caucasus
3) Germany takes the rest of the French colonies and all of modern day Poland, maybe even the Baltics.
+Siddiq Ismail Well, no. Germans had already more than enough problems with the poles living in there empire before the war. They would have installed puppet goverments in Poland and Ober Ost. Maybe even in the Ukraine and the rest of Belarus. Austria-Hungary and Ottmans would sooner or later collapse, possibly with Austria joining Germany.
+Todesbananez Well, they installed a puppet government in Ukraine. This is one of the reasons why Ukraine wasn't given the recognition in the peace treaty, and Poland got large chunks of western Ukraine.
+Todesbananez i could see the Austro-Hungarians joining Germany in this scenario, I'm not so sure about the ottomans however
+Siddiq Ismail Ottomans were doomed. Even if Germany's empire lived, the Ottomans would've fell apart long before the war ended.
Todesbananez So they go the Hapsburg way and install Princes all throughout the newly "freed" countries?
I'm not so sure about Austra-Hungary, but the Ottomans collapse is highly exaggerated. Most of their troubles in the 1800s came form Balkan nationalists, and Arab revolts were virtually nonexistent (aside from the different religious groups going at each other's throats every once in a while) until the British came, and even then the Arab revolt under Lawrence had at a small fraction of the arab population.
Remember the Ottoman Empire's situation: the were sitting on the world's largest oil reserves as oil just started to become a thing. They were also rapidly trying to modernize but had funding problems (hence why they relied on the Germans).
If the Ottomans survive WW1 without losing any territory, they'll most likely see an oil boom and get rich enough to fully modernize.
Love how you incorporated Indy into the episode
Great. Now I fell into the death trap of going back and forth between this video and the one on the great war channel! :D great job both.
What if carthage won the punic wars?
+Howie Fang Idea for alternate history
It'd not just be a change of borders and languages, it'd be an entire cultural shift. Today, we imagine Greece as the birthplace of Western Civilization. If Carthage won, we'd imagine Phoenicia (where the Carthaginians originally came, according to legend) as the birthplace of Western Civilization.
The Culture of the Carthaginians were also much different then the Romans. The Carthaginians had a heritage of exploration, colonizing and trade (much more then Rome did). Had Carthage won, the Americas could have been discovered (permanently) a lot sooner, maybe as early as 1 AD! (just a random number) In contrast, Rome was focused much more on engineering, city building, and military.
+Howie Fang Maybe the roman empire would never conquer galia britain and the hispanic territorys so that the stats of western and central europe would never develop. Moreover the languages and cultures in this regions could be dominate by the carthagians. And if the winner of the punic war didn´t expand like the romans the asian nomadic people and the parthain would become an bigger part in european history.
+Howie Fang Hey! that was my question!
+Beni Habibi Me too. I really would like to see them cover that. :)
That "ehm ehm sorry" got me so good I was laughing so hard.
How did I miss this? A crossover between my two favorite channels!
This was the video that introduced me to Indy Neidell. It was love at first site.
I
Same
+Top 10s woah top 10s!
+Top 10s Why can't you stay in your own damn channel!?
8:30 Luxembourg is definitely small but not a kingdom.
Cody, never got the chance to thank you for introducing me to "The Great War" channel!
omg when you made that game theory joke, I lost it. Great channel, subbed
What if the Ottoman Empire had never joined the Central Powers? That's always been one of my favorite alternate WW1 scenarios.
RedXlV it would have been a longer civil war
They still would have fallen
@@electricpants8194 no I think they would have not fallen Watch What if Aultist
If the Schlieffen Plan had worked there never would have been a "Soup Nazi." No more soup for you! Step aside!
Very true and good point
+CD Copley ha
Just watched that episode
2:08 🎶I'VE BECOME SO NUMB, I CAN'T FEEL YOU THERE....🎶
So basically ww1 was america's puberty
Roundman u are a god now
I would like but it’s at 69. But your right
More like it’s first girlfriend
That's assuming our maturity is based on our involvement on the world stage some would argue us doing nothing is less costly and better for the world.
orcfish Na that’s probably there pre teens
Hoi 4 kaiserreich
I just imagine France in this scenario talking to Belgium just like
I TRUSTED YOU
Love your vids!
almost 1 million views gongrats dude =)
What if the Byzantine survived and win against the Turks
+JorgeJavier Laborde you need to specify when, are you talking about 1400s or 1000s?
Arda Poda I guess he meant the Ottomans
+JorgeJavier Laborde even if they won against them, they were doomed to fall, as the 4th crusade weakened them greatly and they never recovered
Fatihturk0071 But the Byzantines where orthodox Christians. "Because Muhammed said it would of been conquered" that's not a reason.
Fatihturk0071 But the Byzantines where the roman empire before it split in two parts. Jesus was a pacifist and didn't think about conquering. Africa was conquered because they were weak compered to the European powers. And I can't understand what you really wrote
If the Schliefen Plan succeded we would live in a Steampunk world
Lol
Love this channel, I hadn't watched a video in a while, I forgot about the Bridin thing though
wow Cody, almost a million subs!! congrets man!!
Reichtangle will rise. Haaalo Polan.
+LukeDaDuke Was?
+LukeDaDuke Reichtangle stronk
+LukeDaDuke No matter how you change the timeline, Reichtangle will always be there looking for Anschluss.
Guten Tag, ist Anchluss Zeit, Polan?
Just found out this existed. Instant sub.
I like to think that in some alternate world they're making alternate history videos on "What if the Schlieffen plan failed?"
I really love when people drop in. It's so funny!
You should do a video that could be titled "What if NATO never intervened during the Yugoslav Wars?" I think that would be a fascinating video to watchh
Srbs would still lose, they are stupidest nation of all time
Perhaps so, but one with the most qualified and experience military. We are seeing a WW1 vid, try to read how Serbs crush invasions of 10 times their manpower. Of course til´ Germany and Bulgary joined the Austrians.
*UK HAS JOINED THE CHAT*
WW1 Germany: You weren't Supposed to do that
I have no idea how I got here, but I'm glad I did. I'm a huge nerd, particularly about history, so this stuff is really fun to watch.
Moltke : it is important to use trains
Moltke electric bugalo : you know what this old plan looks fun
I love the great wars channel
Fuck yeah, I love you Cody and Indi!
+texaschizophrenic We really like you too.
Dude, did you just get friend zoned by a youtube channel?
+texaschizophrenic I have a girlfriend but I'm flattered
+AlternateHistoryHub omg you have a girlfriend??? thats amazing
+AlternateHistoryHub With a voice like yours,I'm not surprised.
i just realized,
because Poland was gone for centuries, when it popped back up. it was like that one friend from high school that you haven't seen in years
That glimpse of the grim-dark future in which Alternate History Hub becomes assimilated by Game Theory.
"AMERIC... no, I'm just kidding, the UK"BEST xD
The game theory reference had me laughing so hard lol
cant wait for part 2 yeah
9
you deserve more subs
A request for a future video: What if the Louisiana purchase never happened?
+Zach Harris US probably would have taken it anyway. A sort of French version of the Mexican-American War.
Or Maybe Lousiana gains Independence just like Haiti did.
Since, France had just regained control of Louisiana a few years prior from the purchase from the Spaniards, I could see Spain regaining some of that territory specially the north, the southern parts would have been the most likely to have become independent (how does the Republic of New Orleans sound?). However, successful would these territories be? I mean France saw no use of Louisiana after they lost Haiti and they only became what they are because they became part of the U.S. as they need a "breadbasket".
nice content
Its been 2 1/2 years.... we need a part two!
What if Pablo Escobar became president of Colombia !
Please Cody, this would've impacted the drug war hugely and it'd be cool to see your thoughts of it!
Please, Cody. You're my only hope.
+Fishko Vaysi It was imposibble, how Pablo Escobar become a president?
Honestly it’s not completely impossible to imagine, if they had won the battle of the Marne they could’ve taken Paris
Really great video as always, a major inspiration on my own channel where I've done a video on what would have happened if WWI was over quickly as a result of the Brits not being involved.
The Great War is an amazing channel.
All the Central Powers really had to do to win the war was not invading Belgium and play it defensively in the west. The Schlieffen plan already (and somewhat correctly) assumed that Russia would take a while to mobilize - but it took the wrong conclusion, in that it would be best to take out France first. Had Germany used the ressources the Schlieffen plan took for an initial assault on Russia, they would have wiped the floor with the czar's armies while France would have been wasting manpower uselessly attacking the fortified positions on the franco-german border.
No british involvement means that Italy would have been easier to handle. It probably never would have switched sides if the Kaiser had promised them some french land and colonies (and in this case the promises wouldn't seem so far-fetched). And even if they did, Germany would have had the ressources to handle that situation much better. The Ottoman Empire would have likely also not joined the Central Powers, but they weren't really helping much anyway.
Really, keeping the Brits out of the war was the one factor that could have won it for the Central Powers. Though Britain might have still intervened at some point to avoid the possibility of a german-dominated Europe. But without a legitimate reason and without the propaganda advantage that the invasion of Belgium gave them, they would have had a much harder time.
Exactly!
Mm… that’s not entirely true, in WWI France was a titan, Germany had chances, but that high
love colabs
+LukeDaDuke We do to!
+The Great War too*
I love how you say in this that it's impossible to tell what would have happened if the Germans had won but host today you uploaded the part 2 for that exact topic
when i first watched this video and heard about the great war channel i didnt care. but now that i have discoverd it i am hooked
lol my name is cody so that kinda scared me.
+Cody Batterson What does Cody from Alternate History Hub look like?
+carultch A Roman god that's what
+AlternateHistoryHub could you make a part 2 to them what if the cold war never ended video?
+AlternateHistoryHub Hey do you have a twitter?
The video makes it seem like the Schlieffen Plan failed only because of British involvement and so the only scenario allowing it to succeed is that the British stay out of the war! But is this necessarily true?
Certainly the British played a big part in the failure of the Schlieffen Plan. But it is arguably the case that the biggest reason for its failure was not mentioned in this video. The fact that the plan was not implemented properly.
The Schlieffen Plan was substantially modified by German Chief of Staff Helmuth von Moltke, who then allowed it to be further modified as events unfolded. These modifications fatally undermined its effectiveness. What is always remembered about the Schlieffen Plan is that it requires that the heavily defended Franco-German border is circumvented by substantial German forces going around it into northern France through Belgium across the Franco-Belgian border.
But there is another element to the plan that is often forgotten. That smaller German forces located at the Franco-German border should be limited in size, and should play a relatively passive role in the first instance. This would lure the French forces at the border into crossing the border into the area they so desired to re-acquire, i.e Alsace-Lorraine, and beginning an invasion of south-western Germany. The German forces there were supposed to fall back, drawing the French forces further and further away from their heavily fortified areas in France opposite the German border. Only when the French forces had reached an appreciable distance away from their safe areas, was the German army there supposed to strike hard and fully engage that force. With a substantial part of the French army thus engaged against German forces in south-western Germany, there would be virtually no French forces within easy reach of the main German force pushing through Belgium into northern France. And with very limited French forces available to oppose the main German force pushing through northern France, the chances of a 'Miracle on the Marne' type outcome that saved France would be very low indeed. A German victory would be at hand!
But as we know this did not happen in reality as the Schlieffen Plan was not correctly applied. Instead of a light German force opposite the Franco-German border there was a heavy one. And though the German forces there did draw back slightly and begin to lure the French forces away from their fortified areas on the French side of the border and into Germany, this only occurred to a very limited extent. Why? Because the local German commanders, Prince Rupprecht and General Krafft, objected to a passive strategy and wanted to grab some glory by strongly taking-on the invading French force early. And as French forces were now on German territory, these commanders applied strong pressure to German Chief of Staff von Moltke to give them orders allowing them to strongly engage the enemy. After 3 days von Moltke gave way and these orders were given, with the result that French forces, though suffering heavy casualties, were thrown back into France to their fortified areas. This German mistake was then compounded when Rupprecht & Krafft applied further pressure and von Moltke again gave way and allowed them to attack the heavily defended French fortifications, resulting in over 300,000 German casualties. But the more important consequence was that this strong French force, sitting behind its fortifications, was in France and available to be transported rapidly by train toward Paris & northern France should the need arise. And when it became clear that the bulk of the German army was actually attacking northern France from Belgium, large numbers of these French troops started being sent west and northwards from the Franco-German border, by train. And it is precisely these troops that were to form the French '6th Army' that was used to undertake the 'Miracle on the Marne' battle that saved France and stopped the progress of the German army in northern France.
If the Schlieffen Plan had been applied correctly, could it have worked despite British involvement? Of course we can't know for sure, but it seems entirely possible! Remember, the British expeditionary force, though it delayed the German advance, was eventually overcome and pushed into full retreat. The decisive factor at the battle of the Marne was the substantial number of French troops joining the battle after having been transported by train from eastern France. These troops would not have been available had the Schlieffen plan been applied properly!
So the chances of the Schlieffen Plan succeeding were not as small as this video makes out. What killed it were its modifications and von Moltke's failure to ensure it was properly applied!
The plan also asked for avoiding strong French forces but Von Moltke weakened the German wings and allowed the French and British to counterattack
+Ben Johnson Also Russia Mobilized much quicker than Germany expected so they had to divide their forces.
+Ben Johnson Britain would have made any excuse to join the war. Germany was a big threat to it's empire, it is easier to gang up and beat Germany than to fight them alone.
+MAXZONE47
True, the Russians did begin to mobilize quicker than expected, but that did not mean von Moltke was right in weakening the attack through Belgium by sending extra troops east toward Russia. They didn't get there in time to participate in the German victory at Tannenberg anyway! The success of the whole Schlieffen plan depended on the 'knock out blow' to France by the German forces invading through Belgium, succeeding. This was an essential requirement. Anything that reduced the likelihood of that was likely to be a big mistake. But the Germans were too worried about the idea of any of their cherished homeland, such as East Prussia, being overrun by the enemy, even temporarily. Von Moltke, a weak and flawed character panicked and easily succumbed to pressure. He didn't really give the strategy a chance! Not long after the German failure at the Marne, he had a nervous breakdown and was replaced!
+tytube3001
Yes, Belgium was something of an excuse for Britain to join the war. Belgium was a small neutral country and those in the British govt. who favoured war were able to use Belgium to convince the doubters in the Parliament and in the country that Britain had to enter the war to counter German aggression. But the real reason Britain went to war was simply in order to stop the Germans winning, especially against France. The British did not want to see a German dominated Europe, or the Channel ports under German control.
I live right next to New Ulm, MN (7:36). One of the coolest cities you can find, it's got Herman The German, tons of Oktoberfest events, the best beer and bread you can find anywhere in the US, and people regularly speak German. Awesome place.
I came to this video just after watching a Great War video, I thought that was awesome
interesting video
+louiethepitt yes
exactly just imagine....the alternative timeline is way better than our crappy timeline.... 1-Bolchevic revolt was sponsored by Germany to take out Russia...in this timeline there wouldn't have been a necessity to help the communist and Russia would have been defeated before the red revolution....so that translate to a world with no real Communist power....Russia maybe would still have a Czar....No communist China, no Cuba missile crisis, no Soviet Union, No Ukraine conflict, Chechen conflict, no invasion of Tibet by china, no Vietnam war....any type of conflict that came out of Communist spread would have been tone down or never happened at all. 2-ottoman Empire fading by its own without being split by westerners...this would have stopped in its track the Zionist movement...so that translate to no Israel state, no massacre of Palestinians by Israel, no Palestinian conflict, more organic distribution of the land according to religion Islamic alignment and ethnicity...there still will be conflict between the two Islamic groups but this would be more tone down, No ISIS, no 9-11, no war on terror, no Afghanistan war with Soviet Union nor USA...it would be a more civilize and organic middle east with no Jew invaders in Palestine....No Iran conflict with Westerners...no mass immigration to Europe from middle east....lower gas prices. 3-A victorious Germany would also translate into a more prosperous central Empire...with Socialist tendencies but no chance for extremist groups like the Nazi to win any kind of election and that goes also for the communist...The government would have a lot of influence in Europe, economic, military....you could say that it would have rival Britain and the USA...Jews never would have been persecuted, no need for Israel state in Palestine....Gold will be the worlds currency...No UN...no economic crash in Germany, no central banks in most of the world, no need to change to petroleum based gas, most countries the majority would still be on alcohol based gas. No UN development bank braking country after country with debt so this translates to a great reduction in poverty and 3rd world countries. 4-If Britain in this scenario wouldn't enter the war...they would have remain as the worlds #1 superpower, they wouldn't have given the trade to USA in the pacific so the war with Japan would still had happen but it would have been a trade war and with Britain not USA...the world superpowers would be more equally distributed....Britain would have ended the worlds richest nation and even more influential that the victorious Germany. 5-USA not entering the war....no baby boom so a more stable population with no mas illegal immigrants, no crash in the 20s equals no FED, no removal from gold standard because there wouldn't be any war effort, no economy based in the war military industrial complex, no Dollar as worlds reserved currency, so there would,'t have been any mas printouts of dollars like we have today, the debt would be maybe a couple of billion dollars at the most, we wouldn't be on the brink of an economic collapse, China wouldn't own the debt, no welfare state in almost all the world, a free market would be the Norm, no need for passports to travel...they where put into place between WW1 and WW2 to control spy etc...in this scenario people would be free to trade visit where ever they want....most important USA wouldn't have this Imperialistic idea of policing the world and intervening in other countries ...so that is a no CIA cover missions to overthrown governments like Chile, Persia, Guatemala Libya etc etc etc...Mexico and the rest of Latin America wouldn't have been fucked by undercover CIA missions to take over the resources nor they wouldn't be broke by the UN development bank so this economies would be stable maybe even a lot as 1st world countries with no Guerrillas no CIA etc....who knows what would happen with Drugs that is the real question. The world went to shit the moment Britain and later USA entered the war and in this scenario the world is so much greater for humanity...its a shame.
+louiethepitt want to live there now.
Had the Schlieffen Plan been successful, the two major world powers would be Britain (not destabilized by the war) and Germany, and later, the Soviet Union. Due to harsh terms in the Treaty of Stuttgart (a parallel to the Treaty of Versailles) and a depression, France experiences the fascist wave that Germany had along with Italy and maybe Japan and so WWII is made a reality but with a French rather than German enemy; however, it is less racist and more akin to that of Napoleon's empire in spirit. Despite the rivalry between Britain, Germany, and the Soviets, they would ally to contain French imperialism and would be quickly crushed; it is at this point that the US is drawn into European affairs, likely on the Anglo-German side due to cultural ties. France is crushed and split into occupation zones between British (in the north), American (in the west), and German (in the east) zones, with the Soviet Union perhaps occupying some French colonies in the East. A three-way Cold War begins between democratic America and Britain, monarchal Germany, and the communist Soviets.
TristanBomb
I would totally watch a movie about that
Guten Tag! Prepare for Anschluss!!!
4:10 "By declaring war on Germany, Germany's plans of a quick war fell apart..."
Its pretty hard to have a quick war when fighting YOURSELF.
What if France never helped the US for their independence?
What if Hogan's Heroes wasn't fiction?
...it wasn't?
Oh hai
Shultz you dumkaff!!
I like that you got the hair right
Barely any alternate history in this video, just like every video on this channel. Btw nice detailed map at 8:18.
The British king George V, the Russian Tsar Nicholas II, and the German Kaiser Wilhelm II were all very very closely related. I even think they were cousins (educated guess, not 100% sure). Just look up the extreme physical similarities between George V and Nicholas II on google.
They were cousins, Wilhelm and Nicholas wrote back and forth, adressing eachother as "Willy" and "Niky"
they were actually first cousins. They had the same grandmother