Toronaga's plan was always for her to die to cause a revolt among the nobles in Osaka. When that did not happen because Ishido issued the permit, Mariko found a way to die so Toronaga's plan was on track. Like Hiromatsu, she knew her duty well.
The brilliant thing is Toranaga's plan had more than one ending. - Ideal plan: Mariko is able to bring his wives out of Osaka and all the other noble families start revolting so Toranaga has a lot more time to assemble armies/play political games. Ochiba switches sides because she doesn't want to be on the losing end of a civil war. - Alternate plan: Mariko dies and all the other noble families start revolting and Toranaga has a valid reason to go to war with Ishido. Ochiba switches sides because she lost her best friend and doesn't want to be on the losing end of a civil war. Whether Mariko lives or dies, Toranaga wins.
@@xfireflarex Exactly, either way would have worked for him: If Ishido had released all hostages, he would have lost his upper hand. They were his "life insurance". And the regents would have been free to form their own opinions about who the bad guy was - and Toronaga would have had a great opportunity to form alliances against Ishido. But certainly Mariko dying was a calculated risk. And it was the ideal end for her: She would die with honour serving her master, getting her wish while helping her master win the power struggle. EDIT: Also: Mariko dying won her back her childhood friend, a detail that would ultimately decide the conflict.
The shinobi were there to kidnap Mariko. That way, she's neither dead nor "his" prisoner. But the shinobi didn't count on her killing herself by standing in front of the door.
25:25 "I feel like the Latin music was unnecessary". That song is Asperges Me (Sprinkle Me). It is still sung today in the catholic church when the priest sanctifies the congregation (or casket) by sprinkling with holy water
Hosokawa Galasha was considered a progressive thinker in feudal Japan. Nevertheless, she had to live with the karma of being the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide. Even if she was a Christian, that took precedence over everything else. Her sentiments may be difficult to understand if you are not Japanese. It would be difficult to understand her with the logic of people living in the modern world.
Japan has a very strong collectavist society even today. Whats good for the country is far more important than whats good for the individual. Its why even though there are no trash cans on the streets of Japan theres no trash on the streets. People are willing to be inconvenienced for the good of the many. Mariko doesnt see her life as more important than the life of the society. To be ruled by a weasel like Ishido would be the destruction of the country. So her life and Toda(the guy that comitted seppuku) are a small price to pay.
I think one of the things that makes John stepping up to be Mariko's second even more poignant is their Christian belief. Mariko knows that committing suicide is a mortal sin and if she carries it out, she'll be condemned to eternal damnation. That's why she asks Fukiyama to be her second. When he fails to show up, she realizes she'll be condemning her own soul if she continues yet she's determined to do so anyway in order to complete her duty. When John steps up, he does so knowing that, by making the killing stroke, he'll be saving her from damnation but condemning himself to it instead by committing murder. That's why he says "Hell is no place I haven't already known."
It takes a Catholic to understand what Mariko was giving up when she had no second for sepaku. Her immortal soul. Blackthorne was committing a mortal sin by killing her. Both were willing to sacrifice everything for what was most important. Mariko for her honor and Blackthorne for his love of Mariko. She recognized this when he stepped forward as her second. His willingness to kill her was an ironic act of love. "Let us drink cha from an empty cup."
7:10 Mariko mentioning her lineage is a subtle snub to Ishido's own, as Ishido was born of peasantry. With Mariko's death, Ishido can't really stop his hostages from leaving; and to whom might those ex-hostages ally with, but with the lord who helped set them free, I wonder?
"For when you have no words, and just need something to hold onto" I absolutely love the parallel between the start of the episode with the flashback of the priest telling Mariko "For when you have no words, and just need something to hold onto" and giving her the cross and the moment of Mariko picking to held John's hand instead of the cross, meaning how she now has someone to hold onto when she has no words, just like that moment.
I had the same reaction as you two when I finished watching this episode. I had my head in my hands and couldn't speak until the Latin chants finished. Anna Sawai's performance was fantastic, full of tension from start to finish.During the scene where she swings the naginata sword, it was heartbreaking to watch her screams get louder as she grows more exhausted. My favorite scene was when Mariko's samurai guard cut down two men in no time, then slowly sheathe his sword and yell that they were going to leave. Great screenwriter, great camerawork and great actors.And what a great reaction from you two！
Almost for the entire 8 episodes, Mariko used only white/bright kimonos. Except this episode where most of it she use crimson as the color. She was Crimson sky all along.
The moment when Blackthorne was prepared to second Mariko despite his continuous hesitation to not make Mariko have to commit suicide and the look she gave him... That scene was just stunning. Crying like crazy.
Was a shame the ninja were trying to kill our favorite characters, otherwise I would’ve really enjoyed that scene: ninjas are pretty cool. I was all “wooo yeah Yabu doing some badass, ooh ninja are badass, here comes some cool justice--oh no. Wait. No! hey! wrong guys, Yabu stop”
19:21 "Her husband denied it for years" Exactly, the writers used that specifically scene of Mariko's seppuku to contrast John with Buntaro, who refuses to let her die with honor, and how despite even going agaisnt his own religion, in John's POV, he was willing to go to hell just so Mariko could have an eternal rest in "paradise". Im not even religious myself but it must the most selfless act of love I ever seen on TV/Movies, I was tearing up so hard in that moment.
I don't know if this is true. There is a argument of how " Mariko " died. The Catholics say she was murdered but the Japanese say she committed suiide.
More like a scholastic debate among historians regarding the end of Hosokawa Gracia. There has been a noticeable change among scientists and scholars around the globe in the past several decades -- whether its the physical sciences, the socio-economic and political, or the historians. Reviewing previously universally-accepted studies that were once considered absolutely factual has been the norm for some time now.
I just wonder what it would be happen with John if he actually seconded Mariko. We already saw how he feels with the idea of death, I dont think he would had been able to handle it. I think that the Ainjin would have k*lled himself not too long after Mariko's seppuku.
Toronaga's plan was always for her to die to cause a revolt among the nobles in Osaka. When that did not happen because Ishido issued the permit, Mariko found a way to die so Toronaga's plan was on track. Like Hiromatsu, she knew her duty well.
The brilliant thing is Toranaga's plan had more than one ending.
- Ideal plan: Mariko is able to bring his wives out of Osaka and all the other noble families start revolting so Toranaga has a lot more time to assemble armies/play political games. Ochiba switches sides because she doesn't want to be on the losing end of a civil war.
- Alternate plan: Mariko dies and all the other noble families start revolting and Toranaga has a valid reason to go to war with Ishido. Ochiba switches sides because she lost her best friend and doesn't want to be on the losing end of a civil war.
Whether Mariko lives or dies, Toranaga wins.
@@xfireflarex Exactly, either way would have worked for him: If Ishido had released all hostages, he would have lost his upper hand. They were his "life insurance". And the regents would have been free to form their own opinions about who the bad guy was - and Toronaga would have had a great opportunity to form alliances against Ishido. But certainly Mariko dying was a calculated risk. And it was the ideal end for her: She would die with honour serving her master, getting her wish while helping her master win the power struggle.
EDIT: Also: Mariko dying won her back her childhood friend, a detail that would ultimately decide the conflict.
The shinobi were there to kidnap Mariko. That way, she's neither dead nor "his" prisoner. But the shinobi didn't count on her killing herself by standing in front of the door.
Thank you for explaining this! It wasn't clear to us what was happening in that final sequence 😂
Regarding the shinobi raiding the compound: there is no way Toranaga would entrust Yabushige with a plan like that.
25:25 "I feel like the Latin music was unnecessary". That song is Asperges Me (Sprinkle Me). It is still sung today in the catholic church when the priest sanctifies the congregation (or casket) by sprinkling with holy water
Hosokawa Galasha was considered a progressive thinker in feudal Japan.
Nevertheless, she had to live with the karma of being the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide.
Even if she was a Christian, that took precedence over everything else.
Her sentiments may be difficult to understand if you are not Japanese.
It would be difficult to understand her with the logic of people living in the modern world.
Japan has a very strong collectavist society even today. Whats good for the country is far more important than whats good for the individual. Its why even though there are no trash cans on the streets of Japan theres no trash on the streets. People are willing to be inconvenienced for the good of the many. Mariko doesnt see her life as more important than the life of the society. To be ruled by a weasel like Ishido would be the destruction of the country. So her life and Toda(the guy that comitted seppuku) are a small price to pay.
I think one of the things that makes John stepping up to be Mariko's second even more poignant is their Christian belief. Mariko knows that committing suicide is a mortal sin and if she carries it out, she'll be condemned to eternal damnation. That's why she asks Fukiyama to be her second. When he fails to show up, she realizes she'll be condemning her own soul if she continues yet she's determined to do so anyway in order to complete her duty. When John steps up, he does so knowing that, by making the killing stroke, he'll be saving her from damnation but condemning himself to it instead by committing murder. That's why he says "Hell is no place I haven't already known."
She asked Fukiyama, in a way, telling him he can go to HELL.
It takes a Catholic to understand what Mariko was giving up when she had no second for sepaku. Her immortal soul. Blackthorne was committing a mortal sin by killing her. Both were willing to sacrifice everything for what was most important. Mariko for her honor and Blackthorne for his love of Mariko. She recognized this when he stepped forward as her second. His willingness to kill her was an ironic act of love. "Let us drink cha from an empty cup."
7:10 Mariko mentioning her lineage is a subtle snub to Ishido's own, as Ishido was born of peasantry.
With Mariko's death, Ishido can't really stop his hostages from leaving; and to whom might those ex-hostages ally with, but with the lord who helped set them free, I wonder?
Ochiba means fallen leaves in Japanese. This make the reference to the leafless branch in the poems meaningful
"For when you have no words, and just need something to hold onto"
I absolutely love the parallel between the start of the episode with the flashback of the priest telling Mariko "For when you have no words, and just need something to hold onto" and giving her the cross and the moment of Mariko picking to held John's hand instead of the cross, meaning how she now has someone to hold onto when she has no words, just like that moment.
I had the same reaction as you two when I finished watching this episode. I had my head in my hands and couldn't speak until the Latin chants finished.
Anna Sawai's performance was fantastic, full of tension from start to finish.During the scene where she swings the naginata sword, it was heartbreaking to watch her screams get louder as she grows more exhausted.
My favorite scene was when Mariko's samurai guard cut down two men in no time, then slowly sheathe his sword and yell that they were going to leave.
Great screenwriter, great camerawork and great actors.And what a great reaction from you two！
Amazing episode of an amazing show! 💙
I loved her character as well. The final episode felt so empty without her.
The women are the heroes in this version of the story. The last episode clears up all lose ends.
Almost for the entire 8 episodes, Mariko used only white/bright kimonos. Except this episode where most of it she use crimson as the color. She was Crimson sky all along.
The moment when Blackthorne was prepared to second Mariko despite his continuous hesitation to not make Mariko have to commit suicide and the look she gave him... That scene was just stunning. Crying like crazy.
Was a shame the ninja were trying to kill our favorite characters, otherwise I would’ve really enjoyed that scene: ninjas are pretty cool.
I was all “wooo yeah Yabu doing some badass, ooh ninja are badass, here comes some cool justice--oh no. Wait. No! hey! wrong guys, Yabu stop”
19:21 "Her husband denied it for years" Exactly, the writers used that specifically scene of Mariko's seppuku to contrast John with Buntaro, who refuses to let her die with honor, and how despite even going agaisnt his own religion, in John's POV, he was willing to go to hell just so Mariko could have an eternal rest in "paradise".
Im not even religious myself but it must the most selfless act of love I ever seen on TV/Movies, I was tearing up so hard in that moment.
The meaning of leafless branch take meaning in the last episode, but basically it has to do with the fact that Ochiba translated is Fallen leaves.
The Poem was about Daiyon-no-kata, Mariko was implying that the heir was illegitimate, the Branch is the royal family tree.
18:10 Crimson Sky.
Great reaction! 🔥💪🏽🔥
I don't know if this is true. There is a argument of how " Mariko " died. The Catholics say she was murdered but the Japanese say she committed suiide.
More like a scholastic debate among historians regarding the end of Hosokawa Gracia. There has been a noticeable change among scientists and scholars around the globe in the past several decades -- whether its the physical sciences, the socio-economic and political, or the historians. Reviewing previously universally-accepted studies that were once considered absolutely factual has been the norm for some time now.
Ochiba means "falling petal".
Falling leaves, actually.
If you're looking for another series I recommend Fallout, you would enjoy it based on your previous reactions.
I just wonder what it would be happen with John if he actually seconded Mariko. We already saw how he feels with the idea of death, I dont think he would had been able to handle it. I think that the Ainjin would have k*lled himself not too long after Mariko's seppuku.