When you slam your stem watch your compression system inside the stem. It must be in the same height with stem. When you tight the stem it compresses the steerer tube . To balance the forces manufactures puts the compression plug inside to "push out" . Thats many ppl cut the steerer tube , to correct the height between stem clamp - compression plug. (Sorry for my english, hope to understand me :D )
I un-slammed my stem recently and I not only was I more comfortable as a result, I was also faster for couple of reasons not mentioned in the video. The first is that I could spend more time in the drops. It's lower than the hoods while slammed but way more comfortable. It was a more optimal balance of aero and comfort that I didn't have available before. The second was that I have clip on aero bars. And conventions have become that as low as possible isn't necessary as aero as flat and tucked as possible. Having a higher position allowed me to tuck in better, shrug my shoulders in better, and my back was more flat. Not to mention the greater comfort meant, again, I could spend more time in the aero bar position.
You have more common sense than people wanting to look like a pro or copy pro riders but do not have the physiology of a pro 🤫 keep that as a secret to get faster whilst being comfortable. Let them swallow their ego and pride later on and tell their mates, yeh my back and neck hurts and i cant sustain it 🤷♂️😂
Bars too wide. Shoulder width is max. Narrower is better. That’s the reason for your poor hand position. So many bikes are delivered with bars too wide. Also, you fail to mention the most important slam issue: Steerer compression. You cannot just slam the stem Nilly Willy and leave a tall chimney. That’s dangerous. You need a compression plug covering the area where your stem is clamped, or risk steerer failure.
The steer tube on that bike seems to be aluminum not carbon so a longer steer plug is not required. But I am glad that you mentioned that because most bikes out there 2015 and up are carbon steer tubes anyway, so a longer steer plug is required specially if spacers are at the top and not at the bottom.
You hit the nail on the head. Most hobbyists and even most enthusiast level cyclists are nowhere near as fit, flexible and powerful as professional cyclists. It takes years of work, on and off the bike, to even come close to that. If you’re very keen to improve your speed and technique, by all means go ahead and train in somewhat uncomfortable positions. Try to get your body conditioned to it. You just can’t expect to drop right down to the same positions the pros take without considerable risk of injury.
I can't argue with that. And it is not only about slamming the stem, but about the type of bike you ride too. We need to bear in mind that the peeps who buy road bikes and gravel bikes these days are not experienced cyclists (most of them) and they'd be much better off on a trekking bike
Awesome video. I slammed my stem and loved it. My speed increased by 1kmph. I am 57 years old, ride a 54 size frame with 90mm stem and I weigh 78kilos. I wish I did it much much earlier! I find if way more comfortable and my lower back pain is gone now.
Great videos Jourdain! I like that you are an "average Joe" rider like many of us. I love bikes but I don't ride a $15,000 Pinarello, nor do I ride like a pro. I just love bike riding and building beautiful bikes. I have both name brand bikes, and bikes I built from Chinese parts, and in my case I love them both... I used to ride slammed when I was younger because it looked cool. About 10 years ago I brought my stem back up15mm, and now my bike feels like new! Comfort doesn't mean "slow".
Well said my friend. If you have the flexibility, then go for it. Otherwise, it will do you more harm than good. I totally agree about the fact that you start small and work your way up. Take one spacer out, try it out for a month and see how it is. Then go further. Don't slam it all at once. Gotta crawl before you walk.
Totally agree Jourdaine. I have a Trek Domane (endurance bike) and a Pinarello F8, and I get 90% of my PRs on my Trek because it just feels more comfortable which to me = faster Great video
HI Ian, that's interesting. I would have thought that the F8 would have been better to get your PR's. It just goes to show that comfortable is quicker. Glad you enjoyed the video.
The amount of editing in this video is lit 🔥 love it mate. Indeed, your highlights on neck pain and comfort over aero over a prolonged efforts are fully applicable to me. I had this neck and shoulder issue quite a while until i found this video from 'kinetic cycle coaching' youtube channel on rolling the pelvis on the bike especially when using the drops. It reduce the angle of neck bone and therefore, theoretically reduce the muscle tension nearby. It helps me tremendously and i didn't experience it whatsoever during 1-2hr of continous riding on the drops with my stem slammed. It does take quite a while to get used to that position. Adding core strength will definitely helps in that regards though.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Do you have a link to the kinetic cycle coaching video that you mentioned, I'll give it a watch and see if can help me improve my position 👍🏽
Others just slamming their stem for aesthetics purposes on their bike without knowing the possible consequences it might lead to and yes comfort is faster, I have tried slamming my stem before matched with -17 degree and it makes your core do more effort to lessen the pressure on your hands sitting onto the bar especially on longer rides.
In reality, your body will adapt. If you do want more comfortable after a few miles, you can always place your hands on the bars. I also stand up to peddle every few miles.
I started cycling on October and actually slammed my stem when i got my bike 💀 It made my neck sore for a month but i got used to it and it doesn't hurt anymore even in 100k rides
Good valid points. I did not slam my stem but i did drop it down to one spacer. A bit too low for longer periods, wich required too long of a core engagement. So ive raised it another spacer and hopefully thats more of a sweet spot for my current level of fitness. 🤞
Another great video in the bank! 🎉🎉🎉 I also tried slamming my stem when i first got my bike and also had the same problems. It wasn't right for me, it was uncomfortable...and another added downside (which doesn't affect you Jourdain), with my bigger belly, it meant when riding on the drops or trying to tuck in, the top of my thighs would hit my drooping belly 🤦🐷. I found having the the stem half way down was a happy medium for me. As with all bike measurement changes, doing it in increments is best. And those increments are most likely to be in the millimetres - small changes, big differences!
Hi Han! Interesting to hear that you have had the same experience as me. I'm thinking to drop it a single spacer and see how I feel. Like you said, little by little. It sure did make me realise how much comfort is taken out of the equation with many purchase decisions... but how important it actually is. 👍🏽
Comfortable is faster indeed! i am faster on my hybrid bike then on my road bike i recently bought but maybe i have still have to learn to adapt to it . It is a small frame with a big drop. Now i realize i am not Mark Cavendish.
Hi Pardeep, glad the video was helpful for you! My bike is a size 54 Giant Defy Advanced 1. My stem is 10cm. I'm 5ft 9 1/2 inches tall. Thie bike feels a good size for me, I certainly wouldn't go any larger.
Excellent video! I used to ride with a "somewhat" slammed stem, but as I have gotten older, I have become less flexible, and so I have unslammed and then flipped my stem and find that I am much more comfortable when I ride. If I am bombing down a hill, I just bend my elbows and tuck into it and I can still fly!
Yeah, I figured the same, if you really want to get tucked in and out the wind, you can! Good to hear you have found a position that works for you! Safe riding friend!
Slammed is for the athletic rider who rides hard 70% of the time checking results or competition......play with height and angle for personal performance...stem length
When I first started riding age 15 drops used to be a lot deeper than they seem to be now, I’m 54 now so I’m talking steel bikes, they seemed to have comfort for climbing and the ability to get aero in the deep drops, I could tolerate any position up to the age of my late twenties, after that it’s all down hill guys , to all you oldies that wanna get areo, don’t 🤣
@@lunam7249 it’s gradual ageing until your late forties, then you fall off a cliff in your 50s🤣 I’m in that fight right now, started doing weights again to keep muscle mass up, I know I’m gonna go down but it’s gonna be fighting 💪🏻🤣
This is exactly why I never stopped working out..I've been working out religiously for over 25years straight..im now 47 and I feel fine on my tarmac sl7 race bike..since im 6 foot 2 tall I didn't slam the stem but just removed a few spacers..if I want to get lower I just bend my elbows and tuck my body in..comfort=speed for some of us...
Thanks man this is very helpful for my gravel which I use for both speed and sometimes for climbing which can save me weight(less spacer and the tubular part of the fork) and watts but its very terrible for comfort
It's a very individual thing. I'm not particularly young or skinny, although I am pretty flexible, and I find it unloads my hands a lot more running it slammed vs 'regular'. I don't know if it's something to do with leg or arm length or what. Probably a combination of several factors, including the fact that I run bikes which are fairly large relative to my height. I'd advise people to try it, but obviously if you get a stiff neck or back then raise it back up again.
I will use an aero pose on my commutes if facing strong headwind. It could get me some 3km/h faster at the same output (idk don’t have a power meter) so I think it does work, but my back sometimes hurts because I’m carrying a backpack. Haven’t modified any of the hardware tho
When you want to take of the stem, ALWAYS loosen the bolts on the side first and THEN the top cap. The top cap compresses the steerer via the nut inside, you could damage your headset with the wrong order. When fastening, first do the top cap and then the bolts on the side.
When unscrewing, no need to follow any order. The cap function is only to compress the stem against the headset, so it's not loose. Once you tight the stem bolts, it serves no purpose anymore except for esthetics. If you wish, you can even remove it after tighten the stem.
My bike fitter said to me "congratulations, you are now the proud owner of a slammed stem" as he dropped my stack height down 4cm and fitted a negative 16degree stem.
If you ride less than 10 hours a week I don’t recommend slamming your stem. Your body has to adapt to the position which it will do over time. You also need to Be relatively young and fit with enough core strength to stabilise your upper body.
My bike was supplied with the fork tube chopped very low. Too low for me! I tried an extender just to see and the difference was amazing! I actually enjoy riding my bike with higher bars now! Have ordered some new carbon forks to “un-slam” my stem!
Very fair comment: good to try but especially as one gets older drastically changing any bike fit element is a bad idea: gradual and slight changes are the way to go !
If you're in it for fitness, the less aero the better. Skeletal, joint, tendon or nerve pain indicates damage. Cervical disc injuries are forever. Muscle pain is a different matter. I have a Pinarello Marvel, a Giant Cypress, a full suspension mountain e-bike, and a Schwinn Continental with 14" high rise bars and I come back just as exercised on any of them.
But what I've also noticed when I did a little slamming was, an easing up of the shoulder muscles when your riding on the hoods because your elbows are bent and more relaxed with your upper body weight resting on your wrists and forearms instead of your shoulders. I still found riding in the drops not nearly as comfortable but riding the hoods was much easier on the upper body.
But based on what I understand and experience, the common problem for stem slamming is that most people (especially noob like me) don't have or don't train their flexibility and core that much, causing the discomfort and long term issues with their muscles. Just a simple core exercise would help a lot. Trust me, I've been there.
If you slam your stem, you end up with more reach. So if you want to do it right, you should slam it and make the stem shorter or push the saddle forwards. Pushing the saddle will change your hip / knee angle and isn't recommendable for just everybody. Making the stem shorter is probably a big pain for some that have integrated handlebars / stems. And it changes the 'feel' and steering of the bike.
@@Numeriwar or he bought the wrong bike 😂 these average cyclists are delusional thinking they can do what pro does 🤦♂️ endurance for majority of weekend warriors. End of.
I slammed my stem for the reason of being more aero. Mostly it's my neck that suffered for it, but i guess now that I've watched this video I'm gonna put the spacers back on. I could always hunker down lower and it's more comfortable
For some it may sound funny - I'm lowering my stem time by time to improve my back flexibility. For me (60) it's more a rehab/yoga thing than an aerodynymic issue. 😇
That's good going! Whatever works for you 👌🏼 - Don't forget to adjust the rest of your bike if you change your stem. My full bike fit video may help - th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.html
Keep up the great work..this is exactly why I never stopped working out..I've been working out for over 25years straight and I'm now 47years old..yoga is a great way to stretch the body for flexibility..my daughter is actually a yoga instructor..I groomed her over the years into eating healthy & staying in shape..now she gives me tips on how to maintain my body..lol
THIS IS NOT THE PROPER WAY TO SLAM YOUR STEM! Going full stack to zero stack height is a sure fire way to get hurt. If you want to slam your stem, move one spacer every couple weeks(depending how much you ride) to allow your body to increase its flexibility and become comfortable.
As a vertically challenged adult I find myself comfortable with stem slammed all the way down. Not only that sometimes I have to get more aggressive 25-35 negative degree stem. Others make all sorts of comment/s but my bars are actually right around my saddle height. Yes I do agree with bars being higher will make you more comfortable but I find myself loosing control more often & front wheel keeps coming up when climbing. So I guess it’s different for everyone…
I've done it this year and replaced my stem with a 17 degree negative rise stem in preparation for a race. I'm riding well but my lower back is very sore and tender. I find that pushing hard in this position makes it worse than when I'm just pootling about. Can't wait for this race to come then go so I can get back to a more neutral position.
Im using 20degree. My first month feel sore my body and cannot do high power output. But after 3 month i feel comfortable and faster. Should be understand, muscle and bone flexibility built within time period. Dont push to hard for the first week. Human body are biology system. It will get to the position slowly. Take your time. Some time lower does not mean aero. Handle 10cm below saddle are more than enough.
Quite funny, it did work me very well. Important to note that it happened whilst a pro bike fit and also I have no aero racing bikes. I only have a sportive and a gravel bike. Those bikes offer you a very upright position, so slamming your cockpit won't put you into a very awkwardly low position, it just made feel more like riding an aero racing bike.
I'm 49 next week and have a giant tcr size small 11cm drop slammed stem no issues always have had my stem slamed my stem is a pro vibe 110 with -17° i was going to use a certified slammed top cap but with the -17° stem i didn't need to go that way to get my usual drop
You need more than 30 days to adapt to a low position. Also maybe a longer stem and a more forward saddle position to keep the hips open and prevent the rocking. Take a closer look at pro bikes. 120-140mm stems, small frames, forward on saddle, fast as shit. Just look at Adam Hansen doing 20 back to back grand tours on a mega drop. If it was a comfort issue he'd not make one stage.
While I disagree with your conclusion, your video was very helpful and you did a great job clearly explaining the pros and cons of slamming the stem, particularly the bit about bike fit. I do agree with you that being comfortable translates to better power output, but for someone like me who likes to get low, slamming the stem in combination with riding in a lower position will make me faster (I plan on lowering or slamming my stem today).
Don't do it, looks great but for the majority will cause nothing but pain! You are right comfortable is fast. I did it, cut my steerer too and regretted it.
@@JourdainColeman yoga and core work.. I’ve also got a neck harness to build strength in there. If you add the correct tools to the arsenal, you can do anything
Im from denmark its flat like a pancacke We Got pretty Harsh win conditions. After I slammed my speed I could feel a difference on the speed. Not massive but definitely works for me
Instead of slamming your stem you might try bending your arms, instead of keeping them straight. Goal is to keep your forearms more or less horizontal. This works best when holding your hands on top of the hoods. Some useful advice in this video: th-cam.com/video/KDfOcaPZYdQ/w-d-xo.html
Pros do not "slam" their stem. They have their bike geometry set up correctly for them. A consequence of this may or may not be that their stem is "slammed". For most folk "slamming" their stem means the bike geometry is out. Their bike does not fit them. 🙃🌈
Mant pros have very long arm or upper torso. So even with a slammed stem, they don’t look very low. I personally slammed my stem but with 1x 5mm spacers not for aero but to relief the pressure from my hands and shoulders. It feels much more comfortable except my neck has to get used to it.
Yeah, the pros positions are crazy to be honest! I've had a few bike fits since this video which corrected a lot of issues that I had - th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2IfwVPTrxd2euwEl
Be no good for me. Once a week i carry my shipping home. Weighing easily 17kg. It already hurts my lower back. I have however put a racing stem on my hybrid. I think its light cor what it is ,10kg carbon folks. Soln to have my drop bars and 105 tackle off a broken trek road bike. Then it'll be sweet. Its a Ribble. Great frame.
If you slam your handlebars... you SHOULD reduce the reach of the saddle. Pros are riding with low handlebars since they move forward all the way their saddles (and consecuently increase the saddle height) . On the other hand... take a look to the INSTABILITY that you introduce to your hips when lowering the bars 3:07 !! Your body is balancing to the sides quite a lot!. Why... because you can´t simply lower the handlebar without altering the other parameters: reach and saddle height. All we have comfortable angles for riding. If you want to be low in the front, you have to move forward the saddle and increase its height, just to maintain the leg angles. The rule is: if you lower the handlebar 5 cms, you have to bring the saddle 5 cm closer to the handblebar, so the torso, and arms angles still the same
I don't know about comfort or any other things, it just makes the bike looks cooler, a road bike should look like a racing machine, and with "endurance" new designs they look like MTBs with dropbars, I like to slam my stem just for the looks on my commuter single speed track looking bike, cause it's just for short rides, 30 min max, around town.
be careful about telling people to slam their stems and not cutting the steerer tube or getting a longer compression plug on a carbon steerer tube. It could be dangerous as if you slam your stem lower than the compression plug .. the stem will be putting forces on the unsupported part of the steerer tube and may lead to weakness of the steerer tube which could be catastrophic if failure occurs whilst riding.
In the photos around 2:44, your arms seem completely straight in both images. Around 3:15, you are rocking back and forth as you pedal. These look like signs of a fit issue.
Tbh I don't think you look particularly well set up on either set up...? Good start would have been getting bars that fit you better, i.e. narrower. That would already save you heaps. Next video try narrower bars (maybe slightly longer stem to compensate). And then get used to those and repeat slamming stem... anyway, my two bob, lol.
Yeah, a few people have said that narrower bars would be better. I'm using 38cm bars (centre to centre) which I swapped from 42cm bars that came with the bike. So dropping down to 36cm could be worth a try haha It's a right old mine filed trying to get the position right, but the current position suits me well. (no pains when riding)
@@JourdainColeman wow, they look much wider on you, but 38cm could still be 40cm c-c on the drops or more. For a cheap experiment try 3T 38cm Ergonova bars (alloy ones). They are usually cheap on eBay and 36cm on the hoods and genuinely 38cm c-c. I can ride any width without issues or pain (have ridden anything between 34cm and 40cm), it doesn't matter. However on the track I've settled on 34cm and on the road on 38 (36 on the hoods). Yes I can ride wider but narrow is much nicer! On the track my bars are a tire width above legal (as low as they are allowed to go), my road bars are 1-2 cm above that (about 2cm above tyre). But on another bike with a different geometry, the bars are in fact slightly higher, but still slammed. It's trial and error, but I encourage anyone to experiment. I just really hate a "relaxed" set up. Don't like how it feels physically and the it affects the handling. Then again, I don't do 5 hour rides... so that's another factor to consider.
@@Gabrielle4870 Thanks for the info! I currently building a new bike and I'll look at the bars that you mentioned. I've looked back and can see my arms clearly are wider than my shoulders. I'll also measure mine as there is a chance that 36cm bars would be better for me. All makes sense with what you have said with track bike etc. I'll experiment on the new bike which is more of a race" bike. I'll keep the giant the same and use that for the longer 50/100-mile rides. Safe riding friend!
I'm no expert, but it seems to me like your bike fit was already problematic before slamming the stem. Your elbows were completely straight (not bent) which suggests the reach is probably too long and/or the bars are too low already. Secondly from the front it looks like the bars are too wide for you. It would be interesting to compare good fit (in terms of reach, bar width) but high vs. good fit and low (slammed).
You are correct... Since this video I've had 2 professional bike fits th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.html I have another video as well getting fitted on a race bike 👍🏼
Cheers for your comment, Kevin. Out of curiosity what makes you say the saddle is too high and bars to wide? I'm always looking to improve my bike fit 👍🏼
@@JourdainColeman I can see from back of your body that your hips aren’t moving quite right, maybe you can lowering your saddle about 10mm. About your handlebar width you’ve been rolling those wrists, it’s compensation for the body trying align the wrist with the shoulders. If not, your handlebar is wider than your shoulders. Try narrower handlebar or measure your shoulder width to match the handlebar👍🏽
Totally impractical for 99% of tall riders, esp with proportionately long legs. I already run a 14cm saddle to bar drop with spacers. 'Slamming' is just an affectation, if your ideal fit on the frame happens to result in zero spacers then fine but it's not a goal to aim for in itself.
“Just because the pro’s do it doesn’t mean we should do it”….Why?….. Because we are far from being pro’s. No matter how good you think you are. You’re not a pro. Period.
you did not get the reason for slam the stem at all.. of course if a person get a better car but do not understand how to drive it is not gonna make him faster either...
If you like this video, check out my 30 races in 30 days video here - th-cam.com/video/CuyOor2UA3A/w-d-xo.html
When you slam your stem watch your compression system inside the stem. It must be in the same height with stem. When you tight the stem it compresses the steerer tube . To balance the forces manufactures puts the compression plug inside to "push out" . Thats many ppl cut the steerer tube , to correct the height between stem clamp - compression plug. (Sorry for my english, hope to understand me :D )
I un-slammed my stem recently and I not only was I more comfortable as a result, I was also faster for couple of reasons not mentioned in the video.
The first is that I could spend more time in the drops. It's lower than the hoods while slammed but way more comfortable. It was a more optimal balance of aero and comfort that I didn't have available before.
The second was that I have clip on aero bars. And conventions have become that as low as possible isn't necessary as aero as flat and tucked as possible. Having a higher position allowed me to tuck in better, shrug my shoulders in better, and my back was more flat. Not to mention the greater comfort meant, again, I could spend more time in the aero bar position.
You have more common sense than people wanting to look like a pro or copy pro riders but do not have the physiology of a pro 🤫 keep that as a secret to get faster whilst being comfortable. Let them swallow their ego and pride later on and tell their mates, yeh my back and neck hurts and i cant sustain it 🤷♂️😂
Yes! I remembered Peak Torque mentioned this same point in a vid some months ago.
Tremendously helpful and excellently delivered. Thanks Jourdain and safe riding! Cheers
Bars too wide. Shoulder width is max. Narrower is better. That’s the reason for your poor hand position. So many bikes are delivered with bars too wide. Also, you fail to mention the most important slam issue: Steerer compression. You cannot just slam the stem Nilly Willy and leave a tall chimney. That’s dangerous. You need a compression plug covering the area where your stem is clamped, or risk steerer failure.
If you don´t have steel components…
Needs a longer compression plug with a carbon steerer, he has an aluminum steerer post with a star nut so all good.
2 very good points.
The steer tube on that bike seems to be aluminum not carbon so a longer steer plug is not required. But I am glad that you mentioned that because most bikes out there 2015 and up are carbon steer tubes anyway, so a longer steer plug is required specially if spacers are at the top and not at the bottom.
Try lots of stuff..super wide bars is awesome for mountain climbs, because it opens up your lungs for deep breathing a lot!!!!
I believe that u should gradually reduce the spacers until ure fully comfortable in a slammed stemmed setup
I would certainly recommend reducing the spacers gradually. If it's comfy keep it, if it's not, change it back 👌🏾👍🏽
Well done! Practical and informative. Honesty matters! 😊
Bang on on all counts. The side by side videos show it all too.
Well done!
Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
You hit the nail on the head. Most hobbyists and even most enthusiast level cyclists are nowhere near as fit, flexible and powerful as professional cyclists. It takes years of work, on and off the bike, to even come close to that.
If you’re very keen to improve your speed and technique, by all means go ahead and train in somewhat uncomfortable positions. Try to get your body conditioned to it. You just can’t expect to drop right down to the same positions the pros take without considerable risk of injury.
I can't argue with that. And it is not only about slamming the stem, but about the type of bike you ride too. We need to bear in mind that the peeps who buy road bikes and gravel bikes these days are not experienced cyclists (most of them) and they'd be much better off on a trekking bike
Awesome video. I slammed my stem and loved it. My speed increased by 1kmph. I am 57 years old, ride a 54 size frame with 90mm stem and I weigh 78kilos. I wish I did it much much earlier! I find if way more comfortable and my lower back pain is gone now.
I am former military and have spinal compression injury. The more aggressive position is better more me too. It stretches my back out.
I know... everything is a secret ...57yo but you did figure it out
Great videos Jourdain! I like that you are an "average Joe" rider like many of us. I love bikes but I don't ride a $15,000 Pinarello, nor do I ride like a pro. I just love bike riding and building beautiful bikes. I have both name brand bikes, and bikes I built from Chinese parts, and in my case I love them both... I used to ride slammed when I was younger because it looked cool. About 10 years ago I brought my stem back up15mm, and now my bike feels like new! Comfort doesn't mean "slow".
Very helpful! Thank you Jourdaine!
Glad it was helpful!
I slammed my stem in 1992 and have never looked back. I've owned several different bikes and I transfer my position from bike to bike.
Well said my friend. If you have the flexibility, then go for it. Otherwise, it will do you more harm than good. I totally agree about the fact that you start small and work your way up. Take one spacer out, try it out for a month and see how it is. Then go further. Don't slam it all at once. Gotta crawl before you walk.
Totally agree Jourdaine. I have a Trek Domane (endurance bike) and a Pinarello F8, and I get 90% of my PRs on my Trek because it just feels more comfortable which to me = faster
Great video
HI Ian, that's interesting. I would have thought that the F8 would have been better to get your PR's. It just goes to show that comfortable is quicker. Glad you enjoyed the video.
Your a wizard...spread the word!!
Totally agree, unslamming and even dropping the seat so much more comfortable. A lot less pain!
This video I made should help - th-cam.com/video/7uO-JzdSuTQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JourdainColeman
The amount of editing in this video is lit 🔥 love it mate.
Indeed, your highlights on neck pain and comfort over aero over a prolonged efforts are fully applicable to me. I had this neck and shoulder issue quite a while until i found this video from 'kinetic cycle coaching' youtube channel on rolling the pelvis on the bike especially when using the drops. It reduce the angle of neck bone and therefore, theoretically reduce the muscle tension nearby.
It helps me tremendously and i didn't experience it whatsoever during 1-2hr of continous riding on the drops with my stem slammed. It does take quite a while to get used to that position. Adding core strength will definitely helps in that regards though.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Do you have a link to the kinetic cycle coaching video that you mentioned, I'll give it a watch and see if can help me improve my position 👍🏽
@@JourdainColeman Have a look here: th-cam.com/video/LhXEI4mOwfk/w-d-xo.html
Others just slamming their stem for aesthetics purposes on their bike without knowing the possible consequences it might lead to and yes comfort is faster, I have tried slamming my stem before matched with -17 degree and it makes your core do more effort to lessen the pressure on your hands sitting onto the bar especially on longer rides.
Very good point Kehn! Looks like you and I have had the same experience.
Hmm, my advise is try to bend your elbow first, if you think that you not low enough, next step is slam it
Yeah comfortable is fast! Great Video as always. Thanks for sharing.
"Yeah comfortable is fast" 👊🏽 - Thanks for watching/commenting!
In reality, your body will adapt. If you do want more comfortable after a few miles, you can always place your hands on the bars. I also stand up to peddle every few miles.
I started cycling on October and actually slammed my stem when i got my bike 💀
It made my neck sore for a month but i got used to it and it doesn't hurt anymore even in 100k rides
Good to hear you found a position that works for you. If you have no pain and you feel good on the bike... what more can you ask for!
Great video, so true , comfort is speed
Good valid points. I did not slam my stem but i did drop it down to one spacer. A bit too low for longer periods, wich required too long of a core engagement. So ive raised it another spacer and hopefully thats more of a sweet spot for my current level of fitness. 🤞
Great content! I'm pretty sure this channel's sub gonna' sky rocker
Thanks for watching and commenting you kind words. We can only hope we get a boost at some point. 😁
Another great video in the bank! 🎉🎉🎉
I also tried slamming my stem when i first got my bike and also had the same problems. It wasn't right for me, it was uncomfortable...and another added downside (which doesn't affect you Jourdain), with my bigger belly, it meant when riding on the drops or trying to tuck in, the top of my thighs would hit my drooping belly 🤦🐷.
I found having the the stem half way down was a happy medium for me.
As with all bike measurement changes, doing it in increments is best. And those increments are most likely to be in the millimetres - small changes, big differences!
Hi Han! Interesting to hear that you have had the same experience as me. I'm thinking to drop it a single spacer and see how I feel. Like you said, little by little. It sure did make me realise how much comfort is taken out of the equation with many purchase decisions... but how important it actually is. 👍🏽
Bike Fit + Pedal Technique + Muscle Activation = everybody has their place
Hiya J good information your right I will leave my bike handle bars the way it is, being comfortable is always key then looking good…🙏🏿
Hey Carl! Glad you enjoyed the video. You are right, keeping comfortable is key 👌🏾
Great video all around.
Glad you enjoyed it
Comfortable is faster indeed! i am faster on my hybrid bike then on my road bike i recently bought but maybe i have still have to learn to adapt to it . It is a small frame with a big drop. Now i realize i am not Mark Cavendish.
Nice, very useful video. Thanks Jourdain.
What length stem do you use, and what size is your bike?
Hi Pardeep, glad the video was helpful for you! My bike is a size 54 Giant Defy Advanced 1. My stem is 10cm. I'm 5ft 9 1/2 inches tall. Thie bike feels a good size for me, I certainly wouldn't go any larger.
Excellent video! I used to ride with a "somewhat" slammed stem, but as I have gotten older, I have become less flexible, and so I have unslammed and then flipped my stem and find that I am much more comfortable when I ride. If I am bombing down a hill, I just bend my elbows and tuck into it and I can still fly!
Yeah, I figured the same, if you really want to get tucked in and out the wind, you can! Good to hear you have found a position that works for you! Safe riding friend!
Great video & informative
Glad it was helpful!
Slammed is for the athletic rider who rides hard 70% of the time checking results or competition......play with height and angle for personal performance...stem length
When I first started riding age 15 drops used to be a lot deeper than they seem to be now, I’m 54 now so I’m talking steel bikes, they seemed to have comfort for climbing and the ability to get aero in the deep drops, I could tolerate any position up to the age of my late twenties, after that it’s all down hill guys , to all you oldies that wanna get areo, don’t 🤣
😂😂🤣
I think you feel aging at 40 little by little and hey it's cool... every flower has its turn in the sun...
@@lunam7249 it’s gradual ageing until your late forties, then you fall off a cliff in your 50s🤣 I’m in that fight right now, started doing weights again to keep muscle mass up, I know I’m gonna go down but it’s gonna be fighting 💪🏻🤣
@@lunam7249 and ever eagles continues to soar until it's time to be reborn as a phoenix stronger and wiser
This is exactly why I never stopped working out..I've been working out religiously for over 25years straight..im now 47 and I feel fine on my tarmac sl7 race bike..since im 6 foot 2 tall I didn't slam the stem but just removed a few spacers..if I want to get lower I just bend my elbows and tuck my body in..comfort=speed for some of us...
Thanks man this is very helpful for my gravel which I use for both speed and sometimes for climbing which can save me weight(less spacer and the tubular part of the fork) and watts but its very terrible for comfort
Glad to help!
It's a very individual thing. I'm not particularly young or skinny, although I am pretty flexible, and I find it unloads my hands a lot more running it slammed vs 'regular'. I don't know if it's something to do with leg or arm length or what. Probably a combination of several factors, including the fact that I run bikes which are fairly large relative to my height. I'd advise people to try it, but obviously if you get a stiff neck or back then raise it back up again.
I will use an aero pose on my commutes if facing strong headwind. It could get me some 3km/h faster at the same output (idk don’t have a power meter) so I think it does work, but my back sometimes hurts because I’m carrying a backpack. Haven’t modified any of the hardware tho
Also, if the bike you have is too big, slamming the stem can help, as well as lowering the seat.
When you want to take of the stem, ALWAYS loosen the bolts on the side first and THEN the top cap. The top cap compresses the steerer via the nut inside, you could damage your headset with the wrong order.
When fastening, first do the top cap and then the bolts on the side.
Thank for the tips! Much appreciated 👍🏽
When unscrewing, no need to follow any order. The cap function is only to compress the stem against the headset, so it's not loose. Once you tight the stem bolts, it serves no purpose anymore except for esthetics. If you wish, you can even remove it after tighten the stem.
I am totally agreed with you, some ppls just because it looks cool and follow the pro~~
My bike fitter said to me "congratulations, you are now the proud owner of a slammed stem" as he dropped my stack height down 4cm and fitted a negative 16degree stem.
If you ride less than 10 hours a week I don’t recommend slamming your stem. Your body has to adapt to the position which it will do over time. You also need to
Be relatively young and fit with enough core strength to stabilise your upper body.
It helps a lot to angle the seat nose down to match the lower hand position.
Comfort is fast, great insight thanks.
Glad it was helpful! 😁
My bike was supplied with the fork tube chopped very low. Too low for me! I tried an extender just to see and the difference was amazing! I actually enjoy riding my bike with higher bars now! Have ordered some new carbon forks to “un-slam” my stem!
Swapping the Defy for a TCR would make you faster....... But joking aside, a great video!!
Glad you enjoyed the video, Sam! I've had my eye on a TCR 👀
Very fair comment: good to try but especially as one gets older drastically changing any bike fit element is a bad idea: gradual and slight changes are the way to go !
Good point!
If you're in it for fitness, the less aero the better. Skeletal, joint, tendon or nerve pain indicates damage. Cervical disc injuries are forever. Muscle pain is a different matter. I have a Pinarello Marvel, a Giant Cypress, a full suspension mountain e-bike, and a Schwinn Continental with 14" high rise bars and I come back just as exercised on any of them.
Muchas gracias, me hubiera encantado que hubiera habido subtítulos en español.
Thanks.
But what I've also noticed when I did a little slamming was, an easing up of the shoulder muscles when your riding on the hoods because your elbows are bent and more relaxed with your upper body weight resting on your wrists and forearms instead of your shoulders. I still found riding in the drops not nearly as comfortable but riding the hoods was much easier on the upper body.
But based on what I understand and experience, the common problem for stem slamming is that most people (especially noob like me) don't have or don't train their flexibility and core that much, causing the discomfort and long term issues with their muscles. Just a simple core exercise would help a lot. Trust me, I've been there.
If you slam your stem, you end up with more reach.
So if you want to do it right, you should slam it and make the stem shorter or push the saddle forwards. Pushing the saddle will change your hip / knee angle and isn't recommendable for just everybody. Making the stem shorter is probably a big pain for some that have integrated handlebars / stems. And it changes the 'feel' and steering of the bike.
When you lean forward your reach naturally increases. So you dont have to shorten the stem
@@Numeriwar or he bought the wrong bike 😂 these average cyclists are delusional thinking they can do what pro does 🤦♂️ endurance for majority of weekend warriors. End of.
I slammed my stem for the reason of being more aero. Mostly it's my neck that suffered for it, but i guess now that I've watched this video I'm gonna put the spacers back on. I could always hunker down lower and it's more comfortable
For some it may sound funny - I'm lowering my stem time by time to improve my back flexibility. For me (60) it's more a rehab/yoga thing than an aerodynymic issue. 😇
That's good going! Whatever works for you 👌🏼 - Don't forget to adjust the rest of your bike if you change your stem. My full bike fit video may help - th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.html
Keep up the great work..this is exactly why I never stopped working out..I've been working out for over 25years straight and I'm now 47years old..yoga is a great way to stretch the body for flexibility..my daughter is actually a yoga instructor..I groomed her over the years into eating healthy & staying in shape..now she gives me tips on how to maintain my body..lol
THIS IS NOT THE PROPER WAY TO SLAM YOUR STEM! Going full stack to zero stack height is a sure fire way to get hurt. If you want to slam your stem, move one spacer every couple weeks(depending how much you ride) to allow your body to increase its flexibility and become comfortable.
As a vertically challenged adult I find myself comfortable with stem slammed all the way down. Not only that sometimes I have to get more aggressive 25-35 negative degree stem. Others make all sorts of comment/s but my bars are actually right around my saddle height. Yes I do agree with bars being higher will make you more comfortable but I find myself loosing control more often & front wheel keeps coming up when climbing. So I guess it’s different for everyone…
I've done it this year and replaced my stem with a 17 degree negative rise stem in preparation for a race. I'm riding well but my lower back is very sore and tender. I find that pushing hard in this position makes it worse than when I'm just pootling about. Can't wait for this race to come then go so I can get back to a more neutral position.
Im using 20degree. My first month feel sore my body and cannot do high power output. But after 3 month i feel comfortable and faster. Should be understand, muscle and bone flexibility built within time period. Dont push to hard for the first week. Human body are biology system. It will get to the position slowly. Take your time. Some time lower does not mean aero. Handle 10cm below saddle are more than enough.
Quite funny, it did work me very well. Important to note that it happened whilst a pro bike fit and also I have no aero racing bikes. I only have a sportive and a gravel bike. Those bikes offer you a very upright position, so slamming your cockpit won't put you into a very awkwardly low position, it just made feel more like riding an aero racing bike.
I'm 49 next week and have a giant tcr size small 11cm drop slammed stem no issues always have had my stem slamed my stem is a pro vibe 110 with -17° i was going to use a certified slammed top cap but with the -17° stem i didn't need to go that way to get my usual drop
You need more than 30 days to adapt to a low position. Also maybe a longer stem and a more forward saddle position to keep the hips open and prevent the rocking. Take a closer look at pro bikes. 120-140mm stems, small frames, forward on saddle, fast as shit. Just look at Adam Hansen doing 20 back to back grand tours on a mega drop. If it was a comfort issue he'd not make one stage.
Coming two years late, does tightening your stem cap to the given amount make it easier than trying different tightness?
While I disagree with your conclusion, your video was very helpful and you did a great job clearly explaining the pros and cons of slamming the stem, particularly the bit about bike fit. I do agree with you that being comfortable translates to better power output, but for someone like me who likes to get low, slamming the stem in combination with riding in a lower position will make me faster (I plan on lowering or slamming my stem today).
My old neck and back couldn’t handle it
Even when getting very low on the drops my thighs start to hit my rib cage. And that is without slamming my cockpit.
I've dropped mine not slammed now 50\50 on whether I should move it up one spacer
Don't do it, looks great but for the majority will cause nothing but pain! You are right comfortable is fast. I did it, cut my steerer too and regretted it.
Exactly!! You are right, comfortable is fast. Do you still have yours slammed now?
@@JourdainColeman I've sold that bike now luckily. Won't be slamming my new stem that's for sure!
Comfortable is smooth and smooth is fast...
Been riding slammed for years.
As long as you have flexibility, you’re good to go.
Good to hear... I think need to increase my flexibility hahah.
@@JourdainColeman yoga and core work..
I’ve also got a neck harness to build strength in there.
If you add the correct tools to the arsenal, you can do anything
Did u raise ur saddle when u slammed the stem?
Is it okay if my spacer is a one whole spacer? Just flipped my stem and deciding to do slamming...btw im using mtb
Im from denmark its flat like a pancacke We Got pretty Harsh win conditions. After I slammed my speed I could feel a difference on the speed. Not massive but definitely works for me
Instead of slamming your stem you might try bending your arms, instead of keeping them straight. Goal is to keep your forearms more or less horizontal. This works best when holding your hands on top of the hoods.
Some useful advice in this video: th-cam.com/video/KDfOcaPZYdQ/w-d-xo.html
Pros do not "slam" their stem. They have their bike geometry set up correctly for them. A consequence of this may or may not be that their stem is "slammed". For most folk "slamming" their stem means the bike geometry is out. Their bike does not fit them. 🙃🌈
Mant pros have very long arm or upper torso. So even with a slammed stem, they don’t look very low. I personally slammed my stem but with 1x 5mm spacers not for aero but to relief the pressure from my hands and shoulders. It feels much more comfortable except my neck has to get used to it.
Yeah, the pros positions are crazy to be honest! I've had a few bike fits since this video which corrected a lot of issues that I had - th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2IfwVPTrxd2euwEl
Be no good for me. Once a week i carry my shipping home. Weighing easily 17kg. It already hurts my lower back. I have however put a racing stem on my hybrid. I think its light cor what it is ,10kg carbon folks. Soln to have my drop bars and 105 tackle off a broken trek road bike. Then it'll be sweet. Its a Ribble. Great frame.
Its better to angle up your hoods to bend your elbows to be more aero and relax.
I slam my stem for the looks... 😎
It does look good I must admit. 👌🏾
If you slam your handlebars... you SHOULD reduce the reach of the saddle. Pros are riding with low handlebars since they move forward all the way their saddles (and consecuently increase the saddle height) . On the other hand... take a look to the INSTABILITY that you introduce to your hips when lowering the bars 3:07 !! Your body is balancing to the sides quite a lot!. Why... because you can´t simply lower the handlebar without altering the other parameters: reach and saddle height. All we have comfortable angles for riding. If you want to be low in the front, you have to move forward the saddle and increase its height, just to maintain the leg angles. The rule is: if you lower the handlebar 5 cms, you have to bring the saddle 5 cm closer to the handblebar, so the torso, and arms angles still the same
This is what I need, and after watching im decided to not Slam it, comfortable is the important mate
I don't know about comfort or any other things, it just makes the bike looks cooler, a road bike should look like a racing machine, and with "endurance" new designs they look like MTBs with dropbars, I like to slam my stem just for the looks on my commuter single speed track looking bike, cause it's just for short rides, 30 min max, around town.
Yeah I agree... The look much more racey with the stem slammed 👌🏼
That extra tube in the middle wont help in a crash. Might break chest bones.( that tube is called chimney )
Yeah, now you mention it... that chimney needs chopping off real quick!
I just dropped a spacer , I wana slam just for the ascetic but I ride long trips so not sure if slammed is practical
Comfortable is fast... I hope you find a stem length that's good for you 👍🏽
My missus slams my stem.
be careful about telling people to slam their stems and not cutting the steerer tube or getting a longer compression plug on a carbon steerer tube. It could be dangerous as if you slam your stem lower than the compression plug .. the stem will be putting forces on the unsupported part of the steerer tube and may lead to weakness of the steerer tube which could be catastrophic if failure occurs whilst riding.
Wonderful world greetings
Can’t you just bend your arms more instead of slamming the stem to get to more aero position?
Pretty much yeah, you can consciously tuck yourself and get really aero 👍🏽
Are you an RP speaker? You sound a bit like a British person (upper class)
I slam my stem every night
In the photos around 2:44, your arms seem completely straight in both images. Around 3:15, you are rocking back and forth as you pedal. These look like signs of a fit issue.
Since this video I have had a full bike fit which addressed a lot of issues I had th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.html 👍🏽
@@JourdainColeman I'm glad to hear that! I'm in the process of having a bike fit myself, so I've become very sensitive to such issues.
00:17 should add “..w/ bars that are too wide” into the title. 🤷🏻♂️
Tbh I don't think you look particularly well set up on either set up...?
Good start would have been getting bars that fit you better, i.e. narrower. That would already save you heaps.
Next video try narrower bars (maybe slightly longer stem to compensate). And then get used to those and repeat slamming stem... anyway, my two bob, lol.
Yeah, a few people have said that narrower bars would be better. I'm using 38cm bars (centre to centre) which I swapped from 42cm bars that came with the bike. So dropping down to 36cm could be worth a try haha
It's a right old mine filed trying to get the position right, but the current position suits me well. (no pains when riding)
@@JourdainColeman wow, they look much wider on you, but 38cm could still be 40cm c-c on the drops or more. For a cheap experiment try 3T 38cm Ergonova bars (alloy ones). They are usually cheap on eBay and 36cm on the hoods and genuinely 38cm c-c. I can ride any width without issues or pain (have ridden anything between 34cm and 40cm), it doesn't matter. However on the track I've settled on 34cm and on the road on 38 (36 on the hoods). Yes I can ride wider but narrow is much nicer!
On the track my bars are a tire width above legal (as low as they are allowed to go), my road bars are 1-2 cm above that (about 2cm above tyre). But on another bike with a different geometry, the bars are in fact slightly higher, but still slammed. It's trial and error, but I encourage anyone to experiment. I just really hate a "relaxed" set up. Don't like how it feels physically and the it affects the handling. Then again, I don't do 5 hour rides... so that's another factor to consider.
@@Gabrielle4870 Thanks for the info!
I currently building a new bike and I'll look at the bars that you mentioned. I've looked back and can see my arms clearly are wider than my shoulders. I'll also measure mine as there is a chance that 36cm bars would be better for me.
All makes sense with what you have said with track bike etc. I'll experiment on the new bike which is more of a race" bike. I'll keep the giant the same and use that for the longer 50/100-mile rides.
Safe riding friend!
I'm no expert, but it seems to me like your bike fit was already problematic before slamming the stem. Your elbows were completely straight (not bent) which suggests the reach is probably too long and/or the bars are too low already. Secondly from the front it looks like the bars are too wide for you. It would be interesting to compare good fit (in terms of reach, bar width) but high vs. good fit and low (slammed).
You are correct... Since this video I've had 2 professional bike fits th-cam.com/video/EnGSLC9FtNI/w-d-xo.html
I have another video as well getting fitted on a race bike 👍🏼
Your saddle is too high and the handlebar is too wide, mate. If you really get a bike fit, get a bike fitters with experiences. Cheers.
Cheers for your comment, Kevin. Out of curiosity what makes you say the saddle is too high and bars to wide? I'm always looking to improve my bike fit 👍🏼
@@JourdainColeman I can see from back of your body that your hips aren’t moving quite right, maybe you can lowering your saddle about 10mm. About your handlebar width you’ve been rolling those wrists, it’s compensation for the body trying align the wrist with the shoulders. If not, your handlebar is wider than your shoulders. Try narrower handlebar or measure your shoulder width to match the handlebar👍🏽
Totally impractical for 99% of tall riders, esp with proportionately long legs. I already run a 14cm saddle to bar drop with spacers. 'Slamming' is just an affectation, if your ideal fit on the frame happens to result in zero spacers then fine but it's not a goal to aim for in itself.
Wise words 👍🏽
“Just because the pro’s do it doesn’t mean we should do it”….Why?….. Because we are far from being pro’s. No matter how good you think you are. You’re not a pro. Period.
you did not get the reason for slam the stem at all.. of course if a person get a better car but do not understand how to drive it is not gonna make him faster either...
I think stems are slammed because it lets them ride a smaller lighter frame size.
I will have a slammed stem on my race bike!
SLAM SLAM SLAM!
🤣🤣🤣
It’s comfort but ugly…i love agressive bikes !
😂😂