IMPORTANT PLEASE READ! RECOMENDED RUDDER (tfl rudder to short did not work on this hull) Speedmaster 1" rudder aassembly1⅝ or 2¼ setback www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-spdr-013
You're blessed by having a vocal community and so are the viewers that just want to watch and learn. Although there is some hard science involved in boat setup, much of it is subjective and the trial and error always makes good content, so just keep doing what your doing. There are no haters here - just fellow enthusiasts that want to share their experiences and cheer you on with their feedback. Your enthusiasm is what brings us to your channel, not the nuts and bolts of setting up a boat. Following you on your journeys is always a fun ride so keep it up. #boatgang for life
Don’t listen to those who say the prop is too deep. I had prop walk on a 27” that I eliminated with moving the strut actually deeper in the water. You know what you are talking about B. You the man!!!!
You had this called out right from the beginning Big B. It’s the strut width, set back and depth. 👍 If you have ever run a boat without a rudder you know what happens, it just turns in a circle, the rudder and strut combination go hand in hand. and what you did at first is what we call squaring up your boat or bench tune. Those are your starting points but I don’t have to tell you that it’s what you always do. GREAT JOB, love your videos 15,600 subscribers can’t be wrong!!! The position of strut and prop are important because one effects the others performance, the prop creates a cavity of air and water try’s to fill in around it that’s why your see that odd twist the water flowing around the rudder is not even on each side, so you set the rudder back and or farther away. But like you said that strut is just not the right one for that boat. 👍 BGFL
Hey big B, I think you're right about the rudder, if look at what the water does around the prop it creates a cavity in the water, kind of like a wake behind a boat it dips down lower than the water surface, therefore if you look at your rudder its pretty short and thin at the tip so not much there to hold the boat straight. I bet when you give it throttle there is only about 3/4" to 1" of rudder in the water. hope it all makes sense big B I'm behind you 100%
I think you need a longer rudder strut. OR a longer prop shaft. Get the prop away from the side of the rudder. It's effecting the thrust cone. I had a very similar issue with a MG29 I jad built a few years ago. I got it with no hardware and had to order 3 different rudder struts before I got it right.
My PT Stealth is very similar to this boat and i run the rudder on the port side with no issues. I heat race it with a abc 1817 *45 and doesnt exhibit what you are having happen. Im putting it on the board today and take some measurements and see how it compares to what you have going on.. great job on breaking this all down for us, much appreciated!
It was the rudder setback. I just got back from testing the 2¼ setback and it handled so much better with the same rudder blade and strut shim.. I'd like to hear your settings & feed back
@@IRONCLADRC ok so heres what I got.. Rudder set back. (transom to leading edge of rudder) 1"1/2 (Speed master 4" slight taper rudder.) Strut depth (bottom of hull to bottom of strut) 29mm The front sponson ride pad measurement between top of pad to bottom of hull (depth) is 23.45mm. the strut measurement is 29mm for a difference of 5.55mm.. my rear strut is lower than yours I think.
What about prop depth? Would raising it help? I guess i should have watched more of the video before asking lol. You got this big B. I will be watching and learning.
I want to see the strut raised. My atlas worked the best with the strut raised up all the way. Outboard hydros ride on the back edge and the way you tune them is to cut the rail at the back to bleed off air. You want to jack the outboard up as much as you can. That is when they came out with low water pickup below the prop center line.
Definitely Need a longer set back on the rudder. And length, it's too short. The back of the hydra comes out of the water pretty far , I've definitely learned a lot. Of good ideas, Keep up the good work.
Don’t worry about it too much brother and not all boats as the same for their set ups. Hydros can be a pain to set up just right. It’s taken me almost 6 months to get my 1/10 Ace hardware hydro tuned out. My personal belief it’s the Rudder! Slowing the video down the back of the boat kicks out. Right then left severely to the most I’ve ever seen. Taper rudder I think when the boat gets up on plane and the lift of the hull just not enough rudder to keep the boat going in the right direction. For just for fun. Should try a Carbon fiber rudder. Mimic a different blade. Worth a try. Feel free to reach out more than happy to help. Good luck, brother.
New rudder should be here this evening or tomorrow so we're gonna find out very soon. Just got back from testing the 2¼ setback and it handled so much better with the rudder behind the prop.
I’d almost try different servo for s’ and g’s. Who knows it might not glitch under power but when it’s under load/ resistance it might get inconsistent?
Bonjour, pour ma théorie c'est la rotation de l'hélice à haute vitesse qui fait pivoter l'arrière du bateau sur la gauche. Tout le poids est sur les flotteurs avant. Sur le UL19 le poids est sur l'arrière des flotteurs avant. En mettant trop de poids sur l'avant tu créé un point de pivot sur l'arrière des flotteurs avant. Essais avec les batteries complètement a l'arrière pour supprimer le point de pivot. Avec la puissance du moteur le bateau sortira de l'eau et tu perdra pas de vitesse de pointe. Bon courage. Cordialement
Ive run a bucket load of these through the 80's , so super interested in your setup , the bench set up looks about correct, but she dont run the same angle on the water , ie nose up like shes towing a branch or weed then the back lets go ! very very odd, worth checking there are no concave spots on back of the hull sucking it down ,and what about filling that blunt leading edge on the strut as there is a lot of white spray at the back ? ive never fitted a rudder on the left so cant comment .( love the content , want to be there buddy )
Just got back from testing the extended rudder and it actually handled much better, I think the rudder was to far forward of the propeller, loosing its effectiveness
@@IRONCLADRC Glad to hear that, if you cant get 100% perfect , then try 1 run with opposite hand prop, just to see if she runs better doing left hand ovals ?
Can't tell from the video but is the prop & strut straight across from each other ? Meaning when U measure how far back the prop is from the back of the boat & how far back is the center of the rudder . I think they are pretty close next to each other as well or in my opinion too close . The prop creates a cone of water , what I will call prop wash . I think it is so close it's affecting the steering/rudder going straight . I think a quick solution would b to measure these distances on a boat that works & has no problems . I think if U can move the rudder in , closer to the back of the boat & push the prop out , farther from the back of the boat U should see the problem dissappear . Another thing to check would b weight distribution between the front & the back . Obviously U would b looking for a good balance between front & back .
Yea the rudder was to far in front of the prop, I really thought I could pull it off with this build but I found it just wouldn't work. Just installed a speedmaster rudder which fixed the handling issue. Vid coming tomorrow
Hey big B i hate throwin my 2 cents in but ive found over the yrs that hydros like their rudder close to the transom. Its the prop wash against the rudder kicking the back out. Notice how the back swings to the right? Its the prop wash splashing against the blade in my opinion. All my hydros have the rear of the rudder just a cunt hair in front of the leading edge of the prop. A high rake prop with a smaller cone may help with the splashing against the rudder
Looks like the front of the boat is coming out of the water, your boat would need to be perfectly balanced not to prop walk. Not sure if I’m seeing it correctly on my phone.
Bonjour. Pèse le UL19 en ordre de marche avec les batteries. Met la balance sous les flotteurs avant, puis sous le gouvernail. Ça te donnera la répartition des masses. Cordialement.
What about running a smaller diameter prop with a large pitch? I did that on a cat that liked to crab walk...may work to stop the prop walk here and not paddle wheel so bad?
Ok so its looking like I was rrrrrrrrrrrrrr Not right, about the cg and the high rake prop, maybe I still think the rudder width is as important as it’s length. But I am probably rrrrrrrrr not actually correct I mean I put my knife blade rudder in backwards. Not an Easy fix for a blind man as it turned out. This is a great journey that’s for sure. I’m glued to this until it’s sorted.
I see during the run that your sponsons came all of the time out of the water. On that point the boat can't give his self any direction. I think, you can try to put your strut deeper. Result: sponsons go deeper.
You could try adding a smaller trailing fin on the right side in the back, I know on full size hydro's sometimes it was needed on certain boats. I ran one boat when I was 14 that did shit like that, was really difficult to drive, I think I wound up on my head 2/4 races... F that boat!!! Hated it. But it was fast, if you didn't end up upside down, you won then it was that fast. Now I do know comparing a real hydro to rc has its differences, especially in outboard racing, rc we can't shift body weight to counter act how the boat feels. But some things help
Yeah, some boat just like to swap ends as we called it, that little fin helped alot. Flat bottom runabouts that we would flat turn like a hydro we would run a side fin and the trail fin always. Don't hurt to try it, part of the fun...
I like this idea, it’s easy and it is quick and it fixes what a few guys are saying about the prop wash hitting the side of the rudder and kicking the boat and another guy saying the prop wash is making a hole in the water the rudder is getting caught in.
I would need a right hand flex cable, if I put a clockwise rotating prop on a left hand cable it would unravel the cable.. it's a great idea but I'm unable to test this theory without the proper cable
@@IRONCLADRC I thought you might have one out of one of your twin engine boats. Unfortunately it would mean firstly it would need to be long enough and then if it needs cutting it puts your other boat out of action. Until you get a cable
I 3d printed a catamaran and I need a rudder that mounts horizontal and I need a strut for the shaft to be combined, do you know of any setup like that?
IMPORTANT PLEASE READ!
RECOMENDED RUDDER (tfl rudder to short did not work on this hull)
Speedmaster 1" rudder aassembly1⅝ or 2¼ setback
www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-spdr-013
You're blessed by having a vocal community and so are the viewers that just want to watch and learn. Although there is some hard science involved in boat setup, much of it is subjective and the trial and error always makes good content, so just keep doing what your doing. There are no haters here - just fellow enthusiasts that want to share their experiences and cheer you on with their feedback. Your enthusiasm is what brings us to your channel, not the nuts and bolts of setting up a boat. Following you on your journeys is always a fun ride so keep it up. #boatgang for life
Blessing in disguise bud. You’re gonna help a ton of people out when they encounter the issue. Not to mention ton of hits and comments to the channel.
@@ped200014 that’s why it will be so beneficial.
I agree, it's a learning process for everyone, myself and the boat gang. Thanks for Watching
Don’t listen to those who say the prop is too deep. I had prop walk on a 27” that I eliminated with moving the strut actually deeper in the water. You know what you are talking about B. You the man!!!!
You had this called out right from the beginning Big B. It’s the strut width, set back and depth. 👍
If you have ever run a boat without a rudder you know what happens, it just turns in a circle, the rudder and strut combination go hand in hand. and what you did at first is what we call squaring up your boat or bench tune. Those are your starting points but I don’t have to tell you that it’s what you always do. GREAT JOB, love your videos 15,600 subscribers can’t be wrong!!!
The position of strut and prop are important because one effects the others performance, the prop creates a cavity of air and water try’s to fill in around it that’s why your see that odd twist the water flowing around the rudder is not even on each side, so you set the rudder back and or farther away. But like you said that strut is just not the right one for that boat. 👍 BGFL
You will figure it out, you always do. That’s part of the fun of the hobby. Can always count on great content from you dude.
it's great you doing this, I learn stuff, thank you BIG B. 👍👍
Glad you enjoy it!
Hey big B, I think you're right about the rudder, if look at what the water does around the prop it creates a cavity in the water, kind of like a wake behind a boat it dips down lower than the water surface, therefore if you look at your rudder its pretty short and thin at the tip so not much there to hold the boat straight. I bet when you give it throttle there is only about 3/4" to 1" of rudder in the water. hope it all makes sense big B I'm behind you 100%
Love hydros, looks like it’s going to be fast when it goes straight, good luck keep up the good work
Go with your instincts, big B great video👍
Always!
I think you need a longer rudder strut.
OR a longer prop shaft.
Get the prop away from the side of the rudder.
It's effecting the thrust cone.
I had a very similar issue with a MG29 I jad built a few years ago.
I got it with no hardware and had to order 3 different rudder struts before I got it right.
Sometimes I use to stop that it'll kind of act it as a gyro but don't get too aggressive with it cause it'll go crazy
Wow, tough to figure out. Comments are all over the map. Just curious, what would happen with thinner prop, less blade area?
Wow that rudder can't get here quick enough. Bg4l
My PT Stealth is very similar to this boat and i run the rudder on the port side with no issues. I heat race it with a abc 1817 *45 and doesnt exhibit what you are having happen. Im putting it on the board today and take some measurements and see how it compares to what you have going on.. great job on breaking this all down for us, much appreciated!
It was the rudder setback. I just got back from testing the 2¼ setback and it handled so much better with the same rudder blade and strut shim.. I'd like to hear your settings & feed back
@@IRONCLADRC ok so heres what I got..
Rudder set back. (transom to leading edge of rudder) 1"1/2 (Speed master 4" slight taper rudder.)
Strut depth (bottom of hull to bottom of strut) 29mm
The front sponson ride pad measurement between top of pad to bottom of hull (depth) is 23.45mm. the strut measurement is 29mm for a difference of 5.55mm.. my rear strut is lower than yours I think.
What about prop depth? Would raising it help? I guess i should have watched more of the video before asking lol. You got this big B. I will be watching and learning.
I want to see the strut raised. My atlas worked the best with the strut raised up all the way. Outboard hydros ride on the back edge and the way you tune them is to cut the rail at the back to bleed off air. You want to jack the outboard up as much as you can. That is when they came out with low water pickup below the prop center line.
I think you are on the right path with putting the rudder behind the propeller and run a wider blade
It was the setback just got back from testing the 2¼ setback and it handled so much better
Definitely Need a longer set back on the rudder. And length, it's too short. The back of the hydra comes out of the water pretty far , I've definitely learned a lot. Of good ideas, Keep up the good work.
My guess is not enough rudder OR it should be on the starboard side 😟. You’re good at filling holes😉
Don’t worry about it too much brother and not all boats as the same for their set ups. Hydros can be a pain to set up just right.
It’s taken me almost 6 months to get my 1/10 Ace hardware hydro tuned out.
My personal belief it’s the Rudder!
Slowing the video down the back of the boat kicks out. Right then left severely to the most I’ve ever seen. Taper rudder I think when the boat gets up on plane and the lift of the hull just not enough rudder to keep the boat going in the right direction.
For just for fun. Should try a Carbon fiber rudder. Mimic a different blade.
Worth a try. Feel free to reach out more than happy to help. Good luck, brother.
New rudder should be here this evening or tomorrow so we're gonna find out very soon. Just got back from testing the 2¼ setback and it handled so much better with the rudder behind the prop.
I’d almost try different servo for s’ and g’s. Who knows it might not glitch under power but when it’s under load/ resistance it might get inconsistent?
Bonjour, pour ma théorie c'est la rotation de l'hélice à haute vitesse qui fait pivoter l'arrière du bateau sur la gauche. Tout le poids est sur les flotteurs avant. Sur le UL19 le poids est sur l'arrière des flotteurs avant. En mettant trop de poids sur l'avant tu créé un point de pivot sur l'arrière des flotteurs avant. Essais avec les batteries complètement a l'arrière pour supprimer le point de pivot. Avec la puissance du moteur le bateau sortira de l'eau et tu perdra pas de vitesse de pointe. Bon courage. Cordialement
Yeah, what he said 😉
Longer rudder bracket, a second shim (more angle) if necessary. May all be moot though, once a different rudder is installed.
It was the setback. I just got back from testing the 2¼ setback, and it handled so much better. Almost night and day!
Getting those comments! You ain't no idiot!
Do you have to look out for gators/crocs?
Ive run a bucket load of these through the 80's , so super interested in your setup , the bench set up looks about correct, but she dont run the same angle on the water , ie nose up like shes towing a branch or weed then the back lets go ! very very odd, worth checking there are no concave spots on back of the hull sucking it down ,and what about filling that blunt leading edge on the strut as there is a lot of white spray at the back ? ive never fitted a rudder on the left so cant comment .( love the content , want to be there buddy )
Just got back from testing the extended rudder and it actually handled much better, I think the rudder was to far forward of the propeller, loosing its effectiveness
@@IRONCLADRC Glad to hear that, if you cant get 100% perfect , then try 1 run with opposite hand prop, just to see if she runs better doing left hand ovals ?
Can't tell from the video but is the prop & strut straight across from each other ? Meaning when U measure how far back the prop is from the back of the boat & how far back is the center of the rudder . I think they are pretty close next to each other as well or in my opinion too close .
The prop creates a cone of water , what I will call prop wash . I think it is so close it's affecting the steering/rudder going straight .
I think a quick solution would b to measure these distances on a boat that works & has no problems .
I think if U can move the rudder in , closer to the back of the boat & push the prop out , farther from the back of the boat U should see the problem dissappear .
Another thing to check would b weight distribution between the front & the back . Obviously U would b looking for a good balance between front & back .
Yea the rudder was to far in front of the prop, I really thought I could pull it off with this build but I found it just wouldn't work.
Just installed a speedmaster rudder which fixed the handling issue. Vid coming tomorrow
All my boats with offset rudders are on the right side of the transom. Just saying
Wouldn't turn in things on the back stop that
Hey big B i hate throwin my 2 cents in but ive found over the yrs that hydros like their rudder close to the transom. Its the prop wash against the rudder kicking the back out. Notice how the back swings to the right? Its the prop wash splashing against the blade in my opinion. All my hydros have the rear of the rudder just a cunt hair in front of the leading edge of the prop. A high rake prop with a smaller cone may help with the splashing against the rudder
Looks like the front of the boat is coming out of the water, your boat would need to be perfectly balanced not to prop walk. Not sure if I’m seeing it correctly on my phone.
Bonjour.
Pèse le UL19 en ordre de marche avec les batteries. Met la balance sous les flotteurs avant, puis sous le gouvernail. Ça te donnera la répartition des masses.
Cordialement.
I will do a video very soon with a scale under the hull. Thanks
What about running a smaller diameter prop with a large pitch? I did that on a cat that liked to crab walk...may work to stop the prop walk here and not paddle wheel so bad?
That could very well help. I'll try that out here shortly
@@IRONCLADRC i hope you get it sorted out soon brother! boat looks great and i enjoyed watching the build process!
@@backyardboatracing1423 I'm close with the Extended Rudder I tested today, uploading run tomorrow. New rudder should be here in the next couple days
@@IRONCLADRC hell yeah!
Ok so its looking like I was rrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Not right, about the cg and the high rake prop, maybe
I still think the rudder width is as important as it’s length.
But I am probably rrrrrrrrr not actually correct
I mean I put my knife blade rudder in backwards. Not an Easy fix for a blind man as it turned out.
This is a great journey that’s for sure.
I’m glued to this until it’s sorted.
Do I hear "The Fonz" somewhere in that statement? 🙄
No you were right about prop, the higher rake prop acted much better than the 2 other props.. thank you for your input I really appreciate it
Hi, please put your turn fin under 30 degrees. Greetings Herman
Its got to be the rudder all the bouncing its does the rudder is barely in the water allowing all sorts of wonky shit.
I see during the run that your sponsons came all of the time out of the water. On that point the boat can't give his self any direction. I think, you can try to put your strut deeper. Result: sponsons go deeper.
You know from what I can tell from your video it looks like there’s not enough rudder authority just like you’ve been saying all along
You could try adding a smaller trailing fin on the right side in the back, I know on full size hydro's sometimes it was needed on certain boats. I ran one boat when I was 14 that did shit like that, was really difficult to drive, I think I wound up on my head 2/4 races... F that boat!!! Hated it. But it was fast, if you didn't end up upside down, you won then it was that fast. Now I do know comparing a real hydro to rc has its differences, especially in outboard racing, rc we can't shift body weight to counter act how the boat feels. But some things help
i have a Dunlap kneeler hydro that has a trailing fin on the back as well...they can definitely help
Really? That's cool I never herd of a trailing fin on a hydro, very cool I may look into this a little more. Thanks
Yeah, some boat just like to swap ends as we called it, that little fin helped alot. Flat bottom runabouts that we would flat turn like a hydro we would run a side fin and the trail fin always. Don't hurt to try it, part of the fun...
Have you tried running a right hand prop
I like this idea, it’s easy and it is quick and it fixes what a few guys are saying about the prop wash hitting the side of the rudder and kicking the boat and another guy saying the prop wash is making a hole in the water the rudder is getting caught in.
@@jamesatkinson7517 that's what I figured it would be an easy test without changing much except the prop and motor rotation
I would need a right hand flex cable, if I put a clockwise rotating prop on a left hand cable it would unravel the cable.. it's a great idea but I'm unable to test this theory without the proper cable
@@IRONCLADRC I thought you might have one out of one of your twin engine boats. Unfortunately it would mean firstly it would need to be long enough and then if it needs cutting it puts your other boat out of action.
Until you get a cable
@@IRONCLADRC yeah you would
hey where can i get the rudder for the miss geico 17?
Stock active power sports or horizon hobby, aftermarket OFFSHOREELECTRICS.COM
Hey thanks for always being a big help
I 3d printed a catamaran and I need a rudder that mounts horizontal and I need a strut for the shaft to be combined, do you know of any setup like that?
Here's a micro rudder for 14-17" boats
www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-80047
Micro strut 12-17" hulls
www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-83046
@@IRONCLADRC who is better than you? Thank you!! That looks like what I'm looking for
Just for shots and giggles, why not try raising the prop. I mean you're just messing around and it looks easy to try so why not
I'm sorry Big B. I was only trying to help...