7:38 just a quick addendum, but this is done for localization purposes. In order to support multiple languages, they replaced most strings with LocalizedText, which is a class that supports loading a string depending on the selected ingame langauge through persistent ID references in a datablock. Luckily for modders, LocalizedText also supports a string value to bypass the localization, so those numbers can actually be replaced in the datablocks with the actual string if you want to. 24:37 level generation is a little bit more controllable than you're making it out to be, it's still very much RNG based and can be a total nightmare to work with, but you do have control over the seeds of specific zones and their markers, the main issue is that zones that occur after the zone you modify in level gen will generally change. This is more of a problem with specific tilesets like data center where rooms are made almost entirely out of Markers, which are influenced more by RNG than normal tiles. I do absolutely agree with you though on the amount of time it takes to make content, you can make a fully fleshed out level in a day or two while working directly in JSON, and we don't have access to any of the editor tools that the devs have which likely makes it much easier to generate levels 58:34 I'm sort of uniquely qualified on this, as I've spent an unhealthy amount of time developing custom weapons and custom weapon parts for this game. They actually totally can create unique animations for firing and reloading on guns, you can actually see that some parts *do* have unique animations assigned to them. The burst cannon's front part, for instance, actually has a really nice reload animation. Their system for tying weapons together through parts instead of as full models doesn't do much of anything to limit their capabilities with animations, this is something that I can only attribute to a lack of effort on the dev's part. Custom weapon models that we make are a serious challenge to animate as we don't have access to the same tools they have or their scripts for inverse kinematics, which would let us see how the hand animations look in unity, but we *can* still create animations for each part that manipulate all of the pieces of a weapon part, like the charging handle, bolt, etc. Almost 100% of their weapon parts are actually split into pieces like this in vanilla, but the vast majority of them simply do not animate any of these pieces out of what i can only assume is lazy work.
As for the incompetence on the part of the devs to fix issues that are simple for modders to fix, I suspect this is in large part due to a lack of communication between the different parts of the dev team, or some amount of corporate bureaucratic type bullshit getting in the way of issues that one part of the dev team finding being passed to the programmers to be fixed. Modders generally know how all of the systems required to fix these things work, and can solve issues themselves, but for the devs, the level design team for example either doesn’t know how or is simply not allowed to resolve these issues, so if they find a problem they probably just have to add it to some stupid ass board that nobody probably checks often enough to actually fix the problem at hand
@@mccad00 its a bit hard to call devs lazy with the way this game works. They have to make a new rundown so often and have it perfectly balanced based on a tier system which may seem easy to some but it’s actually very time consuming
@@saggyflapjax I’m a prominent modder for GTFO and I’ve made a few custom rundowns myself, I’m well aware of the work that goes into each rundown and honestly I don’t even think the pace that the devs work at is unreasonable or slow, they just seemingly take a long hiatus between releases and I’m not sure for what From what I can gather it looks like it takes about 2 months start to finish to complete a rundown for the devs, but we usually see releases about 6 months apart
@@mccad00 its not just rundowns. They have to write, design, develop. They also have to then pass that through the ESRB. Then once it gets approved they then have to send the code to Steam for steam to verify and put out the update. The developers of DRG have complained many times about how painstakingly horrid the process is to put out a patch or update as an indie developer when bigger triple A companies can just buy their way through. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs are also trying to find a way to monetize the game to grow its development more, but monetization could mean a negative impact on growth as determined by the player. But the TH-camr in this video acts like he just quit his job. If you don’t want to play it, then don’t. But don’t act like you know exactly what’s happening when you have no clue. Im just tired of toxic gamers.
I’m gonna miss you a lot, you were the first GTFO TH-camr I just ever came across and I love your videos. The worst part is, I completely understand leaving, as I’ve considered leaving too, and I literally just got the game this rundown. I’ve had such a toxic intro to the game, so many game breaking bugs, and the ENTIRE community (the discord that is) telling me that things will NOT be getting better. But I’ve stuck around for the slight chance that it will.
I'm a little older then you but still pretty new. Don't totally give up. People seem to act like the game has been void of high level interesting content for ages but the last two rundowns before R6 were both really good and difficult. Considering how good R4 and R5 were... I know they're capable of making levels like that. khepri's problems seem to be deeper then that though. But I just want fun and difficult levels that push you into the games systems.
@@leodemushkane9229 And that's fine, more power to you, the problem is people like you (Not you) are very hard detractors on the idea of what Khepri's problem is. They don't see a problem, and fall in the same category of people who "Well I'm still gonna pre order it anyway lmao" or "bro just shut up and enjoy what you got" and that's not what we need right now. The game is stagnant and it needs to change, and pretending like there's no problem and we can just move on is horrible.
If there's one thing I hate most in a game, it's wasted potential, and that's exactly what GTFO is right now. Wish it were better, since it's such an awesome style of game, and I LOVE a challenge, but the way it presents itself right now especially based on what you said, it's just not enough.
Watched this whole thing through, and usually I'm a lurker but you put things succinctly enough that I felt the need to step out of my cave to agree with pretty much everything, especially the modding. Although there were some inaccurate technical aspects that other folks have already commented on, everything related to the community and the pace of their development is on point. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that since these levels are clearly easier for 10CC to make than modders, the devs have even less of an excuse for the glacial release pace of content. I'm not much of a vet - I got gifted the game in R5 - but when I tried to get involved and participate in the community I saw the cracks pretty quickly. It's a little baffling to me that a studio composed of industry vets misses the mark so heavily on how people actually play games and how to engage with the community in a healthy way, but I guess it goes to show that time in the saddle doesn't automatically make you a good dev. Supporting a game's modding community is both an ethical thing and a profitable thing to do; ethical because it lets the people who are most passionate about the game experience it in new ways and create things they enjoy about it, and profitable because it extends the game's lifespan/replayability and is *literally free marketing*! I think people who feel welcome in modding games are likelier to tell their friends about it, and in this day and age, having an empathetic dev team is a really important part of having a healthy community. It's baffling to me that 10CC routinely tries to alienate a large segment of their community that's probably the most passionate chunk of players they have, and I just can't understand why. Trying to main creative or visionary integrity is my only guess, and given the way they've threatened legal action to people for modding, it seems like they're hung up on the idea of being the only people to produce GTFO content. I don't have much else to add, I just wanted to mention that I'm glad that I'm not the only person to have these feelings. I don't hold out hope that 10CC will actually learn from any of this, but I suppose we can hope that they stop being so fragile and mature out of it, or if nothing else, that they can serve as a case study for future devs as how not to run a niche game that will live and die based on its community and word-of-mouth spread.
My sentiments exactly... When I started GTFO blind in R2 I thought this was the most interesting (and fun) gaming experience I had in a long time. I loved (almost) every aspect of it... But since around R5 my interest started waning, and R6 was the first rundown I was too bored to even finish. As you said, nothing major changed again, it's all the same... Modding this game was also a lot of fun for a while but became a hassle quickly as you realize 10C provides zero support and is very restrictive (this was after the whole modding witch hunt). I thought at some point the Devs would realize what a missed opportunity their stance on the whole topic is. I guess I was wrong. Rediculess, really. It's all just such a shame to see a great game idea stagnate so hard. I frequently check the state of GTFO, always with that sliver of hope that they changed course somehow or implemented the next game defining feature that may rekindle my love for this game. 😔
1:01:54 This is a bit of a misunderstanding of what this bug is, probably because most of my own explanation is in text rather than in the voice call. What is supposed to happen is that the game adds a certain amount of heat for a role every time that role spawns, and that heat is reduced by 25 every time a different role spawns. This affects the RNG chance that any particular role will be picked, which helps promote shooters or titans spawning if they haven't spawned in a while, and if they spawn too often the game will completely remove them from the pool until their heat stabilizes. The issue with this system right now is that, sometime in R4, the heat reduction was changed from 25 to 1, which causes heat to remain at high values throughout a play session (heat is not reset until you completely reboot the game). Since almost every wave in this game features the standard, special, and miniboss roles, what will happen over time is that all three of these roles will reach maximum heat and be prevented from spawning. This means that the game defaults to spawning only standard enemies, and will do this until another role cools down enough to spawn one of them, at which point it returns to repeatedly spawning the standard role (Strikers, usually the standard role, are spawned by default and their heat will climb to an arbitrarily large value over a play session; shooters, usually the special role, require 15 enemies to spawn to become available again; titans, usually the miniboss role, require 100 enemies to spawn to become available again). The bug in particular for R6D3 has to do with how this system interacts with the weakling role, which is used in the scout waves for the level. You might have actually noticed that, sometimes, early in D3, if you piss off the scouts in Overload they'll spawn a wave that's a jumble of strikers, shadows, and sometimes (regular) titans. However, most of the time, scout waves you'll see are entirely comprised of shadows. Why is this? Well, because weakling is a rarely used role. What happens after a long play session is the heat ends up how I talked about (standard is arbitrarily high, special and miniboss are on the edge of the maximum), while the weakling heat is probably 0 or close to it. This means that late into a play session, and since it's a reactor this easily happens just playing through D3 normally (about half-way through the level depending), when scout waves spawn the game sees that weakling is the only role it's actually allowed to spawn, because every other role is over the heat cap. So, instead spawning a jumble of roles it spawns shadows (weakling) and _only_ shadows. Feel free to confirm it yourself, as well. It's pretty easy to test. Load D3 on a fresh boot and piss of the scouts for the "normal" scout wave, then farm kills in C3 for ~20 minutes and do it again to get the mono-shadow waves. This is also why people playing R4D2 would sometimes play through the whole level doing alarms that only spawned strikers, shooters, and charger titans, but other people would get waves that included chargers for some reason. Strikers were actually the weakling role for the later alarms, starting at least at the class IV cluster, while chargers were the standard enemy. This meant that when standard heat grew to be arbitrarily large, it would lock out chargers from spawning. This is also why it would sometimes fix itself a few alarms down the line. If enough strikers were spawning with no chargers spawning at all, either the weakling heat would rise to be more than 150, and it would start defaulting to standard enemies every now and then, or the standard heat would cool down enough that it would be allowed to spawn by the normal mechanisms. I was going to actually make this my full reply, but this was a long af bug explanation. TL;DR: Heat doesn't cool down as fast as it's supposed to, so, after a long play session, none of the enemies are actually allowed to spawn so the game just picks a default instead until something becomes available. This creates an issue where roles that are rarely used become the only enemy that can be legally spawned, so many many more of them spawn in waves than are supposed to.
19:00 Speaking of more desync bugs after a restart me and my friend saw every door we ever touched on our last attempt as invisible for the rest of the mission. Very confusing when we are trying to hold out and couldn't tell if the doors were actually blocked.
I just found this today after a buddy sent this to me. I didn't start playing until July 2023 (and have played for 1800 hours since then as of July 2024, RIP my social life) so I wasn't around for all this madness. I am glad to say I haven't seen any of these issues you have identified since I have been a member of the discord and it is likely because of your efforts and those like you so thank you for making the community better Khepri. I hope to see you around.
Fun fact - I was a "veteran" who played heavily and supported the game when it first came out. A few runs in I applied to become a discord moderator to help the team out. DocRed got nasty about me pointing out someone had a nazi symbol in their pfp, and whether it'd be appropriate to message the user and ask if they could change it for the server (not even banning or punishing them, just asking them first). I left after he threw a shitfit at me claiming I was overstepping my bounds for thinking about "harassing" a user over their nazi pfp....(I ended up quitting the same day over that lol) Oh, and he also had a bad habit of deleting people's suggestions for the game + cosmetics + whatever not because they were trolling, but because he personally "didn't like it" or hated the ideas. One person had their submission for a cowboy hat cosmetic deleted and warned they'd be banned if they submitted it again for "trolling." The team really shit the bed with letting that guy be community manager, not just with his crazy attitude with the modding stuff. He was legit unhinged and powertripping. Edit - aw damn, Jorgen got banned for joking around? He was an oldie on that server, like, one of the originals. Damn. He was a good guy too.
I never got why devs were hostile to modders. It's free content that you as a dev do not need to worry about at all, massively bumping up replayability and player-retention, for free. Then recently I started figuring it out! Some devs are petty cunts who don't like competition, and they feel threatened by their modding community because some mods can single-handedly be better than their entire game (doesn't happen often mind, but it definitely can happen). This just gives me the feeling that they look down on modders and see them as a threat. Some of the best games ever were made pretty much exclusively by modders, it's why Valve loves hiring them, modders are passionate and given the right tools they can make incredible products. To want to stifle that and root it out like they're your enemy, is a good way to make a lot of enemies in your community. It never looks good, it never will, and it'll always be visible, modding communities never go un-noticed and trying to screw with that as a dev never goes well.
I feel like 10 chambers takes GTFO too seriously and forget that it’s just a game overall, it doesn’t need to make sense to the lore in cost of less intriguing gameplay, after all most of us play a game to enjoy it and not to just get past it without having fun
Seeing how much content, bug fixes and QoL changes modders can create in such a short time, I'm thinking 10C is working on a new game in the background. GTFOs pricing model isn't really made for the Games as Service model that the changing rundown supports. They probably have a few people working on GTFO updates while the rest is doing something else. I just can't think of a other explanation for the slow updates.
Exactly. They're full of shit. I been trying to figure this team out since Thursday when I tried the game. I ran though A1 with randoms. Two left. Me and another remained and eventually finished it after two hours of learning. It was great. I said wow this games right on. Then I read up on it and quickly realized the devs do not communicate. They remove content regularly. The more I read the less I want it.
You gotta give it to them, the checkpoint system is so shoddily implemented, that sometimes you *do* get kicked back to lobby because the game ceases to function properly, and you get softlocked haha
27:00 I think the view of 10C has changed. How they built their engine seems to indicate that rundowns were meant to be created automatically so they don't actually need to take time creating new rundowns and only needing to create new items. But as any indie dev seems to be destined to do, they got pressured to add lore, which made them super defensive of their creation and caused them to need to rethink every aspect of the game, what was once a game that could run and create new experiences indefinitely with minor tweaks/content additions, has now devolved into the hell this type of game was seeming to try to avoid.
The state of the game is still baffling. It feels like they've gone out of their way to make people hate them, or they're just so out of touch that this genuinely blindsided them. The modding fiasco was, in my eyes, largely a result of the developers insulating the spaces they talked to people in, so they'd hand-pick a bunch of users and then only talk to these users while also either not letting them speak freely (due to how official spaces are moderated) or failing to take dissenting opinions seriously. This created an effect where people that wanted to mod the game would create underground communities in which like-minded people could exist and talk to each other, while official spaces became increasingly "clean" and agreeable. When the modding server came to life, I would not be surprised if the developers had no idea there were so many people that disagreed with the server rules, I think the devs thought that they were bullying a very tiny group of people with no community prominence up until the moment they saw how massive the server was and just how many of its big names were people in the BH program, people in the official server's moderation, and people with general clout in the community. I'm bringing this all up because I don't think the underlying causes of the modding fiasco have gone away. It seems like they still heavily insulate their private channels, and it seems like they _very much_ think of these people as "the community," regardless of how well their views actually represent how people feel at large. When they were concepting checkpoints, weapon rebalance, ammo balance, the new levels, etc., chances are that either there were people in the BH program that had concerns but they were ignored, or the culture of the BH program is such that it got heaps of praise up until it actually dropped and then suddenly, when the people playing the game aren't hand-picked anymore, they're getting a ton of negative feedback they completely missed before. I also struggle to find explanations for why exactly content drought, testing for bugs, and patching bugs is so horrible after hiring so many more people. Have they put so much on their plate that the game is just completely unsustainable? Have they hired the wrong people, and while production quality is much higher basic things that need to get done like programming, level design, and QA testing have been left to the wayside? Do they have the resources at their disposal, but the developers are either so incompetent or so mismanaged that almost nothing can get done? Why did they go into 1.0 right now? The game is not finished, and their team is not able to deliver the content they need to be able to bring to the table. Are they hurting for money? Is it a part of their TenCent contract? Are they delusional enough to believe that features like MM, CPs, and bots are in a polished state? Something else that is really annoying, these are all questions because we have no communication on what the hell is happening on their end. We only get vague allusions to the company needing some space, the game being just fine, actually, the game having so much good stuff in the works, and there's so much dismissal of anything anyone has to say that's critical of the game... It feels like the developers are either ignorant to their own failings or desperately trying to hide how bad things really are. I don't think that the game is in good hands, and, based on what we've seen so far, it seems like things are going to get worse before they get better. While I think poking the bear on the main server is a bit stupid, I think it does reveal that the moderation themselves are pretty unprofessional. This happens especially when people are pointing people to the modding server, moderation is pretty trigger happy and they don't seem to be able to use their own discretion to be more realistic about rule enforcement (either they're not allowed to or they're regularly making bad decisions). Also, regardless of how the rules currently exist and are enforced, they're pretty dumb. Veteran players don't tend to share the developers' vision of the game, and plenty of them outright have no respect for it. You can't change how people view your game by forcing them to play it a certain way, it only breeds hostility. I can't agree more with the idea that checkpoints could be perfectly fine if their implementation weren't so soulless. Yet another rushed feature, I guess. Banger outro, btw.
With the BH points... one can say both are right. People are getting ignored and there is a lot of bootlicking too. At least it does look to me. Cannot say more obviously. I will leave the BH group too as this game is simply not fun anymore. I am really not sure what the Devs do or what their vision is anymore. Frustrating to say the least.
Im a not a good player of GTFO, but with my friends we welcome the ckeckpoints, we are still learning how to play it correctly. I know we will certainly not be able to end the whole rundown, but the checkpoints make us feel like we are progressing. we are stuck in D1 at the moment, we have been playing for several weeks everyday, the game is really hard to handle lol.
They don't have to be removed, but they can't remain in their current state. There's no meaningful acknowledgement by the game if you beat things without checkpoints, and this means that people who _want_ to play the hardest version of every expedition, how expeditions have been since R1, feel alienated. "Glad you liked the game in early access, but you're not who this game is for anymore." Just give them some kind of separate counter on the rundown screen where clears are logged, and associate at least some cosmetics with beating levels all in one go, so that skipping out on checkpoints can be an ultra-hardcore endgame instead of a challenge run you only do with people you know well enough.
Honestly when i bought gtfo right after release, checkpoints really helped us to get more familiar with the game. But if there were no checkpoints we would probably already be stealth zone speedruners aftrr the countless retries. Theyre kinda good but also bad at the same time.
Good points. I agree with the Checkpoint incentives for beating levels without them, just seems like an obvious thing. I can't really speak to the modding stuff, although I don't see why they don't lean into that more, let people create custom rundowns/levels themselves, lots of games do this to fill in content and add more features. You still keep the core rundowns that people get excited for. Either way, you summed it up for me at the end "It's always the same". For me it just seems like there's not enough. I started in R4 and loved it, R5 was ok but I started to slow down, same with R6. Hopefully they really bring it back in R7.
To me, GTFO at its core has always had this impossible task of trying to realize its vision of a truly hardcore experience while simultaneously making the game financially sustainable in the long run. The foundation of GTFO, namely the core gameplay loop and difficulty, is golden. It’s why I think I love the game so much. But its precisely because it had such a good start that I think the devs have spent the past 3 rundowns tip-toeing around shaking it up at all. GTFO is a niche game, as you said, and I think it was clear to both the vets and devs from very early on that this game would likely never become quite as popular as it needed to be. I don’t mean to speculate, but as someone who’s been around since R2, I see this internal conflict at the core of the turmoil that has plagued this game’s development for so long. Arguably since R2. I believe 10cc still wants to make GTFO the game they envisioned from the start, but at the same time, doing so inherently keeps the game from attracting the fresh blood that it needs to keep its development alive. It’s a long-standing problem that is sadly a consequence of the sheer difficulty and obscurity of the game, and has been surfacing for quite a while now in the form of a lack of truly novel content and (as the vets see it) compromised integrity of the game. This is a problem that my team and I believed needed to be resolved in R6. And while initial concurrent player counts were the highest they had ever been, that peak also fizzled out faster than it ever had before. I love the game a lot. So it makes me sad that now, I have a hard time imagining committed development continuing past R10.
Banned for using the cinematic mod in your video, bad boy. 🙃 With that out of the way, I thank you for taking the time to make this video. As a day one purchaser and player of GTFO and as a member of the Bug Hunters from R4-R5.5 where I willingly left due to the nature of the environment and otherwise, this is the summary of virtually everything I have spoken and critiqued with friends and the communities I have been a part of. There's no worse pain than seeing a game you truly loved playing, and still do love playing, steer itself into such a negative and outright harmful direction, essentially killing itself in the process. I genuinely hope that the developers can take the time to look at these issues, if not from your video from someone else lodging the complaint against them in any other unofficial or official capacity, and take the time to re-evaluate what it is they are doing, why things are the way they are, and making efforts towards correcting some of the glaring flaws the game and the company making it have created. I hope to see you hanging about in some of the sub-communities we share together, and I pray that we both can see this game make amends and begin to steer itself back onto a better path. Until then, please do take care.
Na man, there is no way I would play this without checkpoints. I don't have the time or the patience to sit down for 2 hours, just to have one mistake ruin the whole session. Not everyone plays the game like you and your friends do. Also, the tool/ammo/health spawns this rundown are perfectly fine in my opinion, resource management is still difficult without feeling too punishing. I think maybe my only criticism is that I would like more varied content besides just doing security doors to call in a wave to fight. I also wish there was more to collect around the levels such as weapon upgrades or weapon parts or something that would justify re-playing a mission in order to stock up for the newest - hardest mission.
Thanks for this video. I had been wanting to buy this game for along time(was about to pull the trigger today actually), but hearing how the company treats modders and the people in charge of their community has changed my mind entirely. Real shame, it looked great....
Yeah, I agree with most of what you said. The High,Extreme,Overload system was a good way to balance the levels, make them shorter and easier for newer players and giving better players stuff to achieve while being recognized. Nobody was complaining that you can clear the level in an "easier version" because clearing the harder version showed up on your mission page. Checkpoints dont do that. I also dont like boosters, they fall into the same category. I dont like my skill-based game to be centered around RNG mechanics, the game is not balanced around.
The way the game was earlier felt actually fine, I don't think we needed these boosters and checkpoint system at all, seeing little red colored gems lying all around the complex breaks the immersion for me, I liked GTFO as it was at the start just pure and hardcore with no boosters and shit
@@saggyflapjax Yeah I mean sometimes it's just that constant beep sound when we have like 10 gems lying around in a small area and everyone's pickin em up, kinda breaks the immersion of a horrific complex environment.
Sad. I've been keeping my eye on GTFO, hoping it would become something really special, but apparently it was just going to rot on my wishlist and perhaps fade into irrelevance.
Great video. Goes a lot more in-depth into the gameplay issues and bugs which I didn't know about. and yes, the problems are much worse than I thought. I'll miss the Persona 5 tunes in your guide videos.
No idea how this cam up in my recommended. My story with the game ended a long time ago after about 5 rounds with friends and getting kicked into the lobby on the last one. The support ticket to which despite quickly receiving the label highest priority and containing complete logs and video of the incident, has seemingly not been looked at ever since. Checked that one specifically for you.
I was going to leave a like on this video until you started on checkpoints. And it's not that I think it's gatekeeping. I think it's dumb to say that checkpoints completely devalue the achievements of this game. I have a lot of hours in this game aswell, tho not nearly as many as you because I only started late in R5. But I think you are severely downplaying how difficult the game is to clear at all. I understand all the mechanics, I know how to kite, I can accurately predict enemy pathfinding with waves for efficient mine and c-foam placement, I can stealth melee kill scouts with relative ease, I can consistently hit headshots and know how to prevent stealth from being broken when an enemy wakes up. I also know how enemy attack patterns work and how to sidestrafe and dodge to ensure I don't take any preventable damage. But even despite all of this I struggle to clear levels. I generally don't even use checkpoints because if a run goes bad right before the end and I'm 2+ hours into a mission, then I just call it a day. And that's all that checkpoints mean to me, someone who is very well acquainted with the game's mechanics but still struggles with levels, they are a time saver. Nobody enjoys going through an hour of basically the exact same shit again just for one more try at a difficult bit. Fuck that. It's not even gatekeeping, it's just humane game design. It's respecting the fact that 90% of your playerbase have a fucking life they need to get back to eventually. And the barest fucking minimum you can do is put in the occasional checkpoint in a 2+ hour run so that one wipe doesn't turn a 2 hour run into a 4 hour run. 2 hours for one session is already a gargantuan commitment to ask of most people. Fuck dude I've been sick at home for the past three months and it's a lot to ask from me. In short, checkpoints devalueing achievement is bullshit, this game is still plenty difficult that clearing all the levels is already very impressive. If you don't like it, don't fucking use them, and if you want the bragging rights, just fucking mention that you didn't use checkpoints when you cleared it. There, now you sound even cooler because you willingly made the game harder for yourself.
Checkpoints objectively make the game easier. Clearing 9 segments in sequence demands some amount of consistency from players, but clearing 3 sets of 3 segments demands only 1/3rd of that. It makes it much easier to be pretty ill-equipped for an expedition and get through it anyway by virtue of luck and brute force. That isn't necessarily a bad thing on its own, it makes the game much more accessible, but it does genuinely devalue clears when every type of clear is lumped together. I don't think that suggesting some sort of indicator should be added to the rundown screen, similar to what optional objectives are rn, is a big ask. Very simply, any change that gives succeeding without checkpoints any meaning would be way better than the system as it currently exists. If you don't have the time to really get the hang of a level, you can just get the normal clear, and people that have the time and energy can explicitly shoot for one-shot clears to prove that they have what it takes to get through the whole thing without dying.
@@Rayalot72 I mostly agree, but I do want to point out that een with checkpoints you have to do the entire level in one go because you can't shutdown the game and comeback to the checkpoint later. If you leave to the menu then you still lose all your progress. I think what needs to be done with checkpoints is three fold. First, your most recent checkpoint should be allowed to be accessed even after closing the game, until you've cleared the level or accessed a checkpoint on another level. But equipment should be locked in based on what everyone was carrying so you can use this to cheese the level with different guns for each segment. Second, There needs to be a counter at the mission complete screen showing how many times each checkpoint has been used. Third, the level needs to be randomized the same as starting a new level whenever a checkpoint is loaded to prevent memorization cheese.
Maybe this is a hot take, but when you mentioned rocket jumping, unintended features that kind of make a game feel unique, that was sentries doing more damage from behind for me. It was an interesting thing to me, the sentry being placed outside a door and in a weird way it highlighted how mindless these creatures are, standing with their backs to danger. But they removed it 😕
Okay so I know nothing about this game, only saw a friend play it once a year or so ago. Are you telling me that they straight up deleted old content from being played? And then started banning people who wanted to play the old content?
Their "Rundown System" gives you a bunch of levels, so far it has always been between 6 - 11/12 without extensions. But with every new rundown that is released they remove the old one from the game. If you want to play it you have to manually download an older version of the game with (or without) your friends in order to play those levels again. And yes, they banned people for playing old content on their discord server aswell.
The old rundowns arent deleted exactly but they're disabled in the jsons. You can see this in the game files while modding where there are rundowns that exists before R1
I genuinely think this game mostly makes itself, and they pretend they're actively developing it while collecting money and secretly working on their next game.
A counter point to the complaints about Checkpoints: If you don't like them (cause they do bug out your lobbies which has happened to me before) then just don't use them.
i personally dont understand the hate toward checkpoints am no where near a veteren but i been playing for a year,and checkpoints is possibly the best feature they added especially in bs runs like e7c1,heck id pay for a mod that would remove infectious fog cuz its just abnoxious or lessen it ,strictly talking about the solo experience
I think checkpoints are a great QoL change. Why would you not want a system so you don't have to restart the whole level if something crashes or bugs out?
I don’t think he disagrees with this, he just thinks that there needs to be some actual incentive to not use checkpoints, which I would agree with. There is no downside to using checkpoints at all, which makes dying almost completely meaningless in some levels and leads to people brute forcing levels
Checkpoints are not a bad system inherently but they, due to a persisting fixed seed once you start a level, promote a way of playing in which there is no insentive to learn and understand but simply to memorize spawn locations and optimize this run in particular instead of coming up with an adaptational solution of how to react to different situations in multiple runs. If a run goes bad people sometimes just say lets wipe and reset to 5 minutes ago, theres way less of a hardcore aspect when theres nothing on the line to lose and way less motivation to think. Also while it is entirely possible that people can also use them in order to understand and learn, if someone beats a level by brute force and someone does the intended way then that person has completed a harder challenge without any recogition or reward and is still set to the level of the other person which takes away that feeling of satisfaction as the outcome is the same, for example entire zones or reactor/terminal passwords can be memorized. Although its funny to say it for this game, but normally the sole purpose of checkpoints shouldnt be to restart cause something breaks (which has literally never happened since they were introduced) If checkpoints had limited uses like maybe 3 or 5, or it would randomize spawn locations there wouldnt be nearly as much complaints about their implementation.
The assumption that you should be able to get a clear without having a full survived run is not something everyone agrees with. I do not consider myself having cleared the map, if it hasn't been in one continuous run. Honestly it just feels embarassing to see yourself clear with a checkpoint. It doesn't feel like you deserved that clear.
@@RezaarSwe Where do you get the embarrassment from? That sounds more like insecurity than anything. Nobody cares if you beat it with a checkpoint or without. That does seem pretty gatekeepy to me.
@@Thenicktatorship how do you define gatekeeping? By having any standard at all to beat a level? What if you beat D4 in a version where you have infinite ammo and could finish any enemy with a single shot. if I have a problem with that... Am I gatekeeping? All games require SOMETHING of their players. What makes one gatekeeping and not the other?
while I genuinley agree with a lot of your points, but it does come off really obvious as someone who's worked on games in the past when you start touching on things you don't understand, and that sounds rude but I just don't want people getting the wrong idea on why things are coded a different way or built the way that they are. Being a programmer already entails enough dealing with people making a bunch of assumptions on things they don't understand the function of and yelling at you for it. There are a lot of times where people use something (like how you said the modular guns limits them on animation) to back a point, when the root issue is unrelated. Like I said, agree with things being a problem, but make sure you attribute it to the right place so common design elements and programming solutions don't end up the focus of peoples vitriol.
I know I’m just nerding out but o love the choice of your music as it kinda symbolises your relationship with the game, some of the lyrics like “so I decided that I am done” obviously shows how your are finished playing the game as your stated in your video title and throughout your video. Secondly the lyric “I will always love the time that we shared” emphasises how even though you are finished with gtfo you enjoyed your time with it and (maybe) don’t regret spending countless hours in it. And Finally “I can only hope you find your way” shows how you wish that the fucking stupid ass devs can fix they game and “find a way” to make shit better. I’m such a nerd that a just did an analysis about an outro song but what else am I suppose to do at 11.46pm 😂
I agree with the modding part, disagree with the rest. Being rewarded for clearing the rundown without checkpoints? Then there should also be a reward for clearing it with melee, or with bots, or solo. Checkpoints are great, maybe R6 was way easier than the others, but R7 is back in the difficult zone, and nobody wants to keep resetting from the very beginning a level that can take 80-90 minutes to clear.
Why do all the games I love most fall to this cycle? A great fundamental basis that is never realized in the way it could have been. First Minecraft and now GTFO.
If you like the game, in the R6 Extraction community we welcome anyone to join us. The game has some similarities to GTFO, so it might fit your bill: a focus on tactical gameplay involving stealth, using your gadgets correctly, and fighting creepy aliens (although far less horrifying). We also don't have assholes as community managers, and the game has no checkpoints or other features that would reduce the stakes.
They already started development of another game and they claimed they won't be abandoning gtfo, but.....well..... Not very convincing, since the game has always been in a stale status.
great video. really hard to see all the shittyness thats happened behind the scenes with this game. the devs and community managers have truly squandered all potential this game had. rip
in the person your directly sending this video too, we all have bad days/week/months. sometimes the reasoning behind stuff that happens online is a lot less clear than you would hope. not defending anyone, but i know back trying to run communities early 2k sometimes i went off the handle on ppl that didn't deserve it for whatever reason. i had a lot of problems at the time and not a lot of solutions, and the "homies" on the web whom id been playing/hanging out with for almost a decade didn't have shit to say, except negative stuff. it gets to you man, as a dev, or especially a community expert. 10 chambers should have appointed someone new. no doubt. but you don't know that mans life or what his contract to uphold was. so don't rip on the guy, rip on the company. cuz in essence its not his take, its the overlords that make him a puppet. my 2 cents anyhow. side note, i wish this game got better and more popular. only reason i found this video is I'm reading the Eula very carefully in oct of 2023. cheers
Was a pleasure giving a couple pointers during the making of this video. I really still want to like this game, but the devs are still trying their hardest to get rid of their playerbase it seems. I'll be seeing you in RoR Khep.
@@phantom9312 Uh, yes. I've asked people that have ears in BH, and I've been messaged myself. If you're gonna get triggered, where the fuck is your source, because I know for a fact that you're parroting some unsubstantiated rumor.
@@Rayalot72 What's hilarious is both of you made unsubstantiated claims in this thread without providing evidence - but you get mad at him without seeing it from his POV.
Not being bad towards swedish companies, but looking at the communication levels of DICE, another swedish based company, for Battlefield, I see a correlation.
Me and my bois tried to post this video on the GTFO discussion page and got this taken down for abusive language and trolling. the devs cant handle the truth.
You’re right but put yourself in there shoes. Would you want all your customers to leave? Its not like the game is doing that good as it is imagine a new player was interested in trying the game and saw this video? They’re looking at it from a business standpoint.
@@SonnyMatrix No they aren't, if they were looking at it from a business standpoint they wouldn't have gotten this far gone. IF they looked at this from a business standpoint, they would see that modders are free agents waiting to make content for free, all you need to do is set up people to comb through the mods and clean them up. If they looked at this from a business standpoint, they'd have taken into account player feedback, rather than ignore it and go "We know what you want better than you do." If they looked at this from a business standpoint, we wouldn't need to be here debating about a business standpoint.
They lied to the community completely. They said that gtfo would be available at launch (1.0) for Xbox, PlayStation, and pc but it was pc exclusive. I got the game on pc btw, but the devs had me waiting checking for 3-4 years.
Yes, only after getting into a rather large debate about mods themselves and taking a rather hardline purist stance all on their own. That and there was the whole issue with the original mod discord owner deleting the discord after some debates with the staff of the Ready or Not discord itself. So that's not the best example to use in my opinion.
halfway through this and it sounds like they(dev team) hate modders because they do more and put out better content then the dev team. So it just sounds like money grubbing but they dont wanna look bad
I think the real reason about kiting and limiting general player freedom of movement and actions isn't about the fact players are exploiting the game but more so that, by using these "tactics", players don't need to convince any friends to play their game, and so, they don't get us to advertize their game for them. I would love to get to fight a more diverse amount of enemies while running and and using my environnement to keep the upper hand. The goal isn't necessarely to make DooM, but to offer players more options to explore and fight and encourage them to try new things, even mid fight. All those tactics looks like cheating but the're supposed to be shooters basics mechanics. People kiting looks like cheating because no enemies can follow your path. If you were forced to not run and jump to dodge or run away, fighting would only be about aiming and shooting and would definitely become like any "generic" shooter. Those tactics are not glitches, it's the way players act to compensate for the lack or freedom: They should look at it and think "it looks weird, but it is something that can add fun or ways to have fun. We just need to look how to integer it in a proper way". Improve enemies movement to find more ways to corner us like jumping off (at least some) ledges for example. Just to say, I totally get the "hardcore" mindset of the game but I'm scared to be playing a game where I'm stuck with a linear set of choices in a linear set of situations or against a linear set of enemies (this one is already present in the game, most enemies are the same).
I'm pretty new and didnt know about the modding issues, and its like really fucking weird to me that they are so anti modding when they came from payday, which is a game that basically nobody plays without modding atleast the HUD.
Plot twist, Rayalot, myself and two others were all wrapped up in that PM incident. Rayalot was outright aggressive off the bat to doc, so it was a little deserved. Even if D0c and the dev community is the joke that it is. You really do hit a lot of points on the head tho :)
While I don't shill for 10Chambers and am critical myself I think most of the criticism in this video is overreacting. I wish the developer would encourage modding but in the end if they choose not to then you have to respect it as the game is basically their property. Same for community feature requests. I wish for a lot of new features and improvements and bugfixes etc. but don't expect them to be implemented.
You clearly weren't here for most of the problems and more than likely recently showed up. Most of the complaints in the video stem from promises made and then failed to be kept over and over, with much of them being hidden behind yes men and the toxic as fuck Mods in the discord. This isn't overreacting, this video was a valid critique on the terrible near narcissistic arrogance 10CC has to game development. You know that Road Map for GTFO? About half way into it they just decided it wasn't valid and left it up, but any time someone pointed it out they got a "A Road Map isn't set in stone nor does it indicate the future development path of a game". Swedish devs are just bad at game development, they think they're better than everyone else, look at how they treated modders. Also, it's not their property, get this through your head once I purchase the game it is mine, this is now my property to do with as I please and modify to my liking as I please, end of story. I know you feel like you're going to get a handjob from 10cc for defending them but they are not good people in this.
@@lordrevan571 Hi, I bought the game when R1 came out but only started playing with R6. So it is correct that I am mostly ignorant on what the developers promised in early access. Do I wish the game would be expanded and further developed? Yes. But surely I wouldnt make a video about it. If promises or ideas didn't turn out to be feasible.. well they are a business. They have to earn money. I spent what, maybe 25€ on the game? I played it for 500 hours (cleared all levels). I see this as a fair investment. Again, I would really like to see the game being developed further. But I think I got out enough enjoyment to not be bitter about it :D
@@obsidiangaming88 That's fine, I did not, nor did many other people get what they paid for this game in terms of dedication and time wasted. That's fine you felt happy, but keep your opinion to yourself, the rest of us are disappointed and expected me from a company who promised more. Valid criticism is far better than blind subservience and since you got enough enjoyment out of it, who cares what you have to say.
I can see some of your points and its a shame to loose you because I always liked your content. I gotta say tho that I can understand why the devs arent pushing modded content and old rundowns. Splitting up you playerbase isnt a good thing. Rundown 6 might be a little to easy for Veteran players but the curve is much better for newer players. For those players that get bored with R6 modding exists and as long as its tolerated I think the balance is quite okay.
As someone who's first experience ever with this game was R5 totally blind. I wholeheartedly disagree. it's better for casual players who don't want to learn the games systems. different then new players who do want to learn to experience this game at it's fullest.
But I dont understand.. What was your role in all of this? Were u a developer on their team or one of the modders wanting more? I havent played this game so much so its interesting
Prominent community member. The most active long-term players in general are disillusioned with the game, and sure enough they've basically confirmed it's going to be left behind after R8 releases.
@@Spherehead123 You're a little late, my guy. Not many of the problems with the game during R6 have been resolved, and now certainly won't ever be. I think it's probably fair to have low expectations for Den of Wolves given 10CC's track record. Every problem that GTFO had is probably going to be repeated in Den of Wolves, there just isn't any evidence that they've improved that much over time.
Every time someone point out something wrong in the game (bug, mechanic, whatever) on Discord, there is always someone from the devs team (Doc, Proclaim or Calle) that is just making joke about it like saying the bug is a feature. That is what pissed me off the most, they always act like they don't give a shit about it because.....well.....they don't give a shit about it!
developers want what they want, they are responsible for their game as well as their community. however, the GTFO discord community has been left in the hands of the moderation team and "manager(s)", leaving their behavior as well as their actions unchecked for some time. while the community management can have holes in its system, or the way it functions, the development team at 10 chambers seems fairly small and they seem to be fairly dedicated to their work, such as how they have stated in numerous channels their willingness to keep their vision of the game at top priority, such as their progressive rundown system and prohibiting the playing of older rundowns, which they have been forced to take action against the entire community to prevent this. although, newer as well as older members of the community have not violated this rule against older rundowns, they should still follow it, which the creators of the game have requested us to. breaking this rule is a risk to themselves, which clearly is being enforced and punished. another thing that the developers at 10 chambers encourage against, or some say they "neglect", is its modding community and it's involvement in the main server. as stated before, the developers at 10 chambers have a vision of their game, which most likely plays no role in the modding community at this time. they do not encourage modding or the use of modded content in their server/game, as stated in the rules. the developers and moderation team of discord do what they do, and the community is allowed to decide towards it, or against it. if you do not enjoy the team behind the game or do not enjoy the community, you can step away from it all, as the title of this video has stated. others who see this video and agree may do the same, and the developers will continue to develop their game as they see fit. they are not required to change for whatever complaints may arise, but many mechanics and features had been in planning for a long time, and if members from the community do not enjoy these decisions then there other games and communities they can take part in. there will never be a perfect development team as many expect, but you also cannot expect a team that will fit with everyones standards.
the modding community itself may be more suitable for many GTFO fans, where the rundown developers would be more willing to listen to their community and advice on changes in their content.
drama like this is incredibly infuriating to me, as well as how many others bring up issues such as stamina not being the solution to kiting, or a lack in content between rundowns and extensions. these are issues that can not be solved to the communities satisfaction and will remain as either a problem themselves or the cause of new ones. this content will always contain flaws to be pointed out and nothing can be perfect, but well off enough that (in this case) the majority of its fanbase enjoy said content as is, whereas the opposition may either continue to pursue those flaws, or leave the enjoyment to the people who enjoy it.
They have over 80+ people working on the game now, so no, it's not a small team at all. "they are not required to change for whatever complaints may arise" Wrong, again, they are indeed required to change for whatever complaints may arise, but only to a point. Player feedback and feedback in general is not something the 10cc team seems to agree with, they have a very arrogant way of dealing with it, going so far as to condecend people for making stupid suggestions or otherwise calling them out on misplaced logic. This has nothing to do with finding the perfect team, or the perfect community, but a team that actually listens to the community to some degree, something 10cc does not do, at all. They're required to make a product, one that will sell and bring in a profit, they are failing at this. The game GTFO is meant to be a one and done type game, wherein you play the level once, beat it and wait for the next content drop, this type of business model is not at all sustainable unless you can drop content once every 2-3 months, any longer and people will eventually move on. 10cc views the game as a "Not something you need to play every day" and have stated before they "Don't want people to only play this game." That in of itself, shows they don't intend to put much effort into the game going forward, and have thus shown that to be true from R3-6, we've had minimal fixes and poor content drops. They can keep making this game as they see fit, but they'll be making it for maybe 20+ people when it's all said and done, and the rest of us will have long moved on. I wonder when no one's left playing Calle will still be on the discussions talking down to people who call him out on his lies and being woefully uninformed.
@@firs7804 Drama like this is what happens when a toxic company actively goes out of its way to harm the playerbase rather than help it, this is what you get. 10cc asked for all this, and the community has responded, this is why the game doesn't have any more than 200+ people playing it at peak times, and only has 1k+ during rundown drops. It's never going anywhere because they refuse to listen to any feedback suggestions. Sniper melee recently got fixed, you know how? They whitelisted a fucking mod that fixed it, by changing a 1.0 to a .5 value. You're telling me, a team of 80+ people couldn't figure this out after 2+ years? They deserve the hate they get.
About the modding situation. It honestly seems pretty simple to me. If the devs specifically state that modding the game is against the rules, and state that in their EULA and discord rules, then mods should not be developed or available to the player base. I'm not really experienced with modding or modding communities of other games, but if 10 Chambers does not want mods to influence their player base, and state it in their rules, then they can do anything within their legal rights to prevent it. Its that simple. Now the argument that they should allow mods is another discussion, one that im not going to partake in. Seriously though. Why would you get mad at the mods for doing their job? @ 10:28. You are pissed that the mods are enforcing the rules of the discord, which is literally their job. If the rules say "no mods" or "don't play old rundowns" then its quite simple, you don't do it. And if you want to do it, don't do it in the official discord, while in a call with one of the devs. I mean what were you expecting? You complain that you get banned for breaking the rules in the discord. You also complain about the inconsistency of the rule enforcement. It's like stealing from a store every day with your friends and one day you get caught. Then you and your friends get punished, but you get mad because you were the only one who stole something, and the fact that you have done it countless times before without getting caught/ noticed somehow justifies it. That thinking is out of touch with reality. If you're breaking the rules, you and those associated are going to get in trouble. @ 11:50. I mean it is quite childish to mock a company and break their rules right in front of their face. Then it is even more childish to rant about it while trying to justify your actions. lmao. And yea, im sure the devs have said some condescending things, but that comes with every argument. It's never only one side that is in the wrong. I'm also sure that you don't agree with some of these rules, but breaking them constantly and mocking the devs is not going to change anything. If you want changes to happen, constantly breaking rules and mocking/ starting shit with devs is not the way to do it. I respect your opinions on what you want 10 Chambers to allow in their community, but I don't respect how you act and respond to the devs and discord mods when they enforce their own rules.
Nah. Modding GTFO with the mod manager blocks you from playing with unmodded players so it doesn't affect anyone who chooses not to use them. When mods have no affect on other people than those who choose to use them, and devs still say no mods, they can go to hell and I'm gonna do it anyway. Some of the best PC gaming content going back 20+ years has been thanks to mods and many games are outright kept alive by a healthy modding community. See 11 years of Skyrim for example. It's literally free content for the players and more incentive to buy the game for the devs. It's true that the rules were stated and he broke them, so him being banned was fair game. But I still think it's silly to have a rule in the first place against something that isn't hurting anyone. But whatever. I'm not involved in the GTFO community anyway. I just hope they fix some bugs and we get a few more rundowns. Shame the game isn't more popular but I don't know that there's a whole lot they can do to fix that beyond making the game even easier than R6, which I don't particularly want. R6 difficulty has been about perfect. I thought the checkpoints were a great addition and would keep more people around but I guess that didn't happen.
@@DeceptivePastry Yea I agree R6 difficulty was pretty good imho, and the checkpoints seemed like a good addition to me. Others couldn’t disagree more though. The devs just have to focus on implementing new and interesting mechanics instead of changing the “broken” mechanics they have been introducing in R6 and previous rundowns. It seems like everything they have added since R3 has been met with so much community backlash by all kinds of different people that all they are doing is fixing everything. Also, I can see why devs don’t like most mods. It splits the player base, and skews their storytelling and rundown system. I don’t really play any mods anyway, so I don’t know much about the modded rundowns/ stuff like that.
@@skyrope9446 "It splits the player base" Maybe moreso in the case of some other games. The way GTFO works I don't believe there's that much overlap with people who haven't finished the vanilla rundown and people who play modded rundowns. Most of the people playing modded have already seen all the rundown has to offer and would likely stop playing or play less often until more content otherwise. Usually people start modding when: 1. The mod introduces a needed quality of life fix that the devs didn't include. 2. They're getting bored of the vanilla content and want something fresh.
Just got into the game and I really feel like stealth is the worse part of the game. The devs focus so much on hard countering speed-runners, but haven't done much to flesh out one of the core mechanics of the game. They just seem disorganized and clueless
I wish they could have delivered the exact same looking game as the E3 trailer 2017. GTFO is just dead for now, R7 didn't changed things, worse, many old players don't see any intereset in it and so, just complete the rundown, and do not play much later. Better play mods that some guys just put so much effort in it, as it can be seen while playing.
AFAIK and what they've been telling us it's tile generation + customization of the layout provided by the procedural generator. And even with my limited gamedev knowledge I'd say that it should be absolutely possible to adjust even the "end result" that way. TBH lighting and setups of many rooms certainly doesn't look like it's "generated", so I belive them on this one.
Remember when this game tauted itself on Simon Viklund and being from ex-Payday 2 devs? Yeah... turns out they went the way of Back 4 Blood, I guess. Just down the drain (if for likely different reasons)
RIP GTFO, had so much potential and ofc failed. Sad thing is, I'm not even angry, sad or even surprised because that is now the norm. There's like a crap-ton of games out there that had potential and failed just like this so I've gotten used to it. Oh well. Thank you guys for the good times in GTFO! You were awesome and you made this game fun! Hope we'll meet in a new game.
I need to mention, the same people saying people are going on a witchhunt after moders and the modding community are the same people who think its ok to go into public lobbies and not say they are modding beforehand, they are also the same people who often think that outright cheating [for example using weapons you cannot use or automatically opening all doors and aggroing all enemies] is quality of life. THESE are the people we are trying to keep out and there is an entire discord dedicated to modding, if you are caught modding in pubs without asking the lobby if its ok beforehand then you will almost certainly get banned on both the server where modding is ok and on the main server, you only screw yourself over by doing that, just ask first or go to the modding server WHICH IS POSTED ON THE MAIN!
Idc if its quality of life, i really don't. But don't outright cheat and say "oh its bug" or "skill" no you are straight up cheating and acting like you aren't and that's not ok, I wouldn't mind if they would ask instead of trying to play it off as not modding.
I’ve encountered many of these bugs, and also many bot bugs, like them spawning in with no weapons, and only tools, or the other way around, only weapons, no tools, and only weapons. I also encountered the old bug where bots couldn’t climb ladders with power cells, and I’ve also had many runs get recked by sudden lag spikes when playing online. Also bots getting themselves downed by sentries, or shooting you from behind, and yet I can still say without a doubt it is one of my favorite games. GTFO will always hold a special place in my heart, and I understand where you’re coming from, but your more recent non-GTFO videos have been getting crap views. Your channel is clearly suffering; you should consider coming back.
My experience with this game has been short, first when it released I tried it and it seemed like a fun coop game to play with friends but ultimately as we didn't understand much of it and there wasn't that much to do we just stopped playing. Recently I picked it up again in R6 just to find that everything is just the same or worse, no progression ,the inability to replay previous rundowns and poor netcode and optimization in general. Generally I don't mind the lack of progression IF (big if) the game is fun enough, and hitting weird zombies while crouching in the dark in the head with a hammer is not fun at all. I have never seen a stealth game in which the stealth mechanic is so dull and boring.
I don't know exactly how it works, but put simply, it's an issue where non-host players have some desync from the host's server that causes enemies to hit them from around corners, through walls, and long distances (sniper melee) because on the host's and server's side the enemies are in range and able to hit them
If you never figured it out for whatever reason two years ago. Sniper Melee was and still is a case where the enemy can hit you from across the room due to desync or just lag. It was never fixed due to poor performance and still plagues the game to this day.
If I were any good as a dev and put out content, I would be very wary of modders. It could reflect badly, if development was still quite new a lot would change and break stuff, checks to guard against OP modded guns in official levels might not be a thing (yet) so you gotta stop that. In Alien Swarm and L4D2 there were major modded campaigns with real issues and people bitched and moaned about it because "game bad". It was the mods. It was usually very rough around the edges and either overly easy or overly hard. Then again, people will want mods. People will want to make their own. It aids popularity of a game (potentially), keeps it alive longterm, etc. I think the best idea would be to put big red text: Mods are not supported and we will not give support on any issues with it. The end. Anyone complains or has any problems with mods: GTFO, you are on your own. No help. Older rundowns would be nice to have. But not all are going to be great and good. Maybe just use the best levels and ones needed for story progression, at rundown 10 or so, let everyone play those. Then keep it going with R11 and on. One button to go to "Classic Rundown" or "Older Rundowns".
Bugs suck and do need fixing and more priority. Especially doors staying closed for 1-2 players while the rest walks through. And only being ablem to alter the apparel of other players but being unable to change your own weapons. Seen that too much.
![Warhammer 40k: Space Marine 2 | เพื่อจักรพรรดิ ! [ตอนเดียวจบ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4M0ckYMA4-U/mqdefault.jpg)
7:38 just a quick addendum, but this is done for localization purposes. In order to support multiple languages, they replaced most strings with LocalizedText, which is a class that supports loading a string depending on the selected ingame langauge through persistent ID references in a datablock. Luckily for modders, LocalizedText also supports a string value to bypass the localization, so those numbers can actually be replaced in the datablocks with the actual string if you want to.
24:37 level generation is a little bit more controllable than you're making it out to be, it's still very much RNG based and can be a total nightmare to work with, but you do have control over the seeds of specific zones and their markers, the main issue is that zones that occur after the zone you modify in level gen will generally change. This is more of a problem with specific tilesets like data center where rooms are made almost entirely out of Markers, which are influenced more by RNG than normal tiles. I do absolutely agree with you though on the amount of time it takes to make content, you can make a fully fleshed out level in a day or two while working directly in JSON, and we don't have access to any of the editor tools that the devs have which likely makes it much easier to generate levels
58:34 I'm sort of uniquely qualified on this, as I've spent an unhealthy amount of time developing custom weapons and custom weapon parts for this game. They actually totally can create unique animations for firing and reloading on guns, you can actually see that some parts *do* have unique animations assigned to them. The burst cannon's front part, for instance, actually has a really nice reload animation. Their system for tying weapons together through parts instead of as full models doesn't do much of anything to limit their capabilities with animations, this is something that I can only attribute to a lack of effort on the dev's part. Custom weapon models that we make are a serious challenge to animate as we don't have access to the same tools they have or their scripts for inverse kinematics, which would let us see how the hand animations look in unity, but we *can* still create animations for each part that manipulate all of the pieces of a weapon part, like the charging handle, bolt, etc. Almost 100% of their weapon parts are actually split into pieces like this in vanilla, but the vast majority of them simply do not animate any of these pieces out of what i can only assume is lazy work.
As for the incompetence on the part of the devs to fix issues that are simple for modders to fix, I suspect this is in large part due to a lack of communication between the different parts of the dev team, or some amount of corporate bureaucratic type bullshit getting in the way of issues that one part of the dev team finding being passed to the programmers to be fixed. Modders generally know how all of the systems required to fix these things work, and can solve issues themselves, but for the devs, the level design team for example either doesn’t know how or is simply not allowed to resolve these issues, so if they find a problem they probably just have to add it to some stupid ass board that nobody probably checks often enough to actually fix the problem at hand
Mccad your rundown is better than the original r6
@@mccad00 its a bit hard to call devs lazy with the way this game works. They have to make a new rundown so often and have it perfectly balanced based on a tier system which may seem easy to some but it’s actually very time consuming
@@saggyflapjax I’m a prominent modder for GTFO and I’ve made a few custom rundowns myself, I’m well aware of the work that goes into each rundown and honestly I don’t even think the pace that the devs work at is unreasonable or slow, they just seemingly take a long hiatus between releases and I’m not sure for what
From what I can gather it looks like it takes about 2 months start to finish to complete a rundown for the devs, but we usually see releases about 6 months apart
@@mccad00 its not just rundowns. They have to write, design, develop. They also have to then pass that through the ESRB. Then once it gets approved they then have to send the code to Steam for steam to verify and put out the update. The developers of DRG have complained many times about how painstakingly horrid the process is to put out a patch or update as an indie developer when bigger triple A companies can just buy their way through. Plus I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs are also trying to find a way to monetize the game to grow its development more, but monetization could mean a negative impact on growth as determined by the player. But the TH-camr in this video acts like he just quit his job. If you don’t want to play it, then don’t. But don’t act like you know exactly what’s happening when you have no clue. Im just tired of toxic gamers.
I’m gonna miss you a lot, you were the first GTFO TH-camr I just ever came across and I love your videos. The worst part is, I completely understand leaving, as I’ve considered leaving too, and I literally just got the game this rundown. I’ve had such a toxic intro to the game, so many game breaking bugs, and the ENTIRE community (the discord that is) telling me that things will NOT be getting better. But I’ve stuck around for the slight chance that it will.
I'm a little older then you but still pretty new. Don't totally give up. People seem to act like the game has been void of high level interesting content for ages but the last two rundowns before R6 were both really good and difficult. Considering how good R4 and R5 were... I know they're capable of making levels like that. khepri's problems seem to be deeper then that though. But I just want fun and difficult levels that push you into the games systems.
@@leodemushkane9229 And that's fine, more power to you, the problem is people like you (Not you) are very hard detractors on the idea of what Khepri's problem is. They don't see a problem, and fall in the same category of people who "Well I'm still gonna pre order it anyway lmao" or "bro just shut up and enjoy what you got" and that's not what we need right now. The game is stagnant and it needs to change, and pretending like there's no problem and we can just move on is horrible.
If there's one thing I hate most in a game, it's wasted potential, and that's exactly what GTFO is right now. Wish it were better, since it's such an awesome style of game, and I LOVE a challenge, but the way it presents itself right now especially based on what you said, it's just not enough.
Watched this whole thing through, and usually I'm a lurker but you put things succinctly enough that I felt the need to step out of my cave to agree with pretty much everything, especially the modding. Although there were some inaccurate technical aspects that other folks have already commented on, everything related to the community and the pace of their development is on point. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that since these levels are clearly easier for 10CC to make than modders, the devs have even less of an excuse for the glacial release pace of content.
I'm not much of a vet - I got gifted the game in R5 - but when I tried to get involved and participate in the community I saw the cracks pretty quickly. It's a little baffling to me that a studio composed of industry vets misses the mark so heavily on how people actually play games and how to engage with the community in a healthy way, but I guess it goes to show that time in the saddle doesn't automatically make you a good dev.
Supporting a game's modding community is both an ethical thing and a profitable thing to do; ethical because it lets the people who are most passionate about the game experience it in new ways and create things they enjoy about it, and profitable because it extends the game's lifespan/replayability and is *literally free marketing*! I think people who feel welcome in modding games are likelier to tell their friends about it, and in this day and age, having an empathetic dev team is a really important part of having a healthy community. It's baffling to me that 10CC routinely tries to alienate a large segment of their community that's probably the most passionate chunk of players they have, and I just can't understand why. Trying to main creative or visionary integrity is my only guess, and given the way they've threatened legal action to people for modding, it seems like they're hung up on the idea of being the only people to produce GTFO content.
I don't have much else to add, I just wanted to mention that I'm glad that I'm not the only person to have these feelings. I don't hold out hope that 10CC will actually learn from any of this, but I suppose we can hope that they stop being so fragile and mature out of it, or if nothing else, that they can serve as a case study for future devs as how not to run a niche game that will live and die based on its community and word-of-mouth spread.
My sentiments exactly...
When I started GTFO blind in R2 I thought this was the most interesting (and fun) gaming experience I had in a long time.
I loved (almost) every aspect of it... But since around R5 my interest started waning, and R6 was the first rundown I
was too bored to even finish. As you said, nothing major changed again, it's all the same...
Modding this game was also a lot of fun for a while but became a hassle quickly as you realize 10C provides zero support and is very restrictive (this was after the whole modding witch hunt). I thought at some point the Devs would realize what a missed opportunity their stance on the whole topic is. I guess I was wrong. Rediculess, really.
It's all just such a shame to see a great game idea stagnate so hard. I frequently check the state of GTFO, always with that sliver of hope that they changed course somehow or implemented the next game defining feature that may rekindle my love for this game. 😔
1:01:54 This is a bit of a misunderstanding of what this bug is, probably because most of my own explanation is in text rather than in the voice call. What is supposed to happen is that the game adds a certain amount of heat for a role every time that role spawns, and that heat is reduced by 25 every time a different role spawns. This affects the RNG chance that any particular role will be picked, which helps promote shooters or titans spawning if they haven't spawned in a while, and if they spawn too often the game will completely remove them from the pool until their heat stabilizes. The issue with this system right now is that, sometime in R4, the heat reduction was changed from 25 to 1, which causes heat to remain at high values throughout a play session (heat is not reset until you completely reboot the game). Since almost every wave in this game features the standard, special, and miniboss roles, what will happen over time is that all three of these roles will reach maximum heat and be prevented from spawning. This means that the game defaults to spawning only standard enemies, and will do this until another role cools down enough to spawn one of them, at which point it returns to repeatedly spawning the standard role (Strikers, usually the standard role, are spawned by default and their heat will climb to an arbitrarily large value over a play session; shooters, usually the special role, require 15 enemies to spawn to become available again; titans, usually the miniboss role, require 100 enemies to spawn to become available again).
The bug in particular for R6D3 has to do with how this system interacts with the weakling role, which is used in the scout waves for the level. You might have actually noticed that, sometimes, early in D3, if you piss off the scouts in Overload they'll spawn a wave that's a jumble of strikers, shadows, and sometimes (regular) titans. However, most of the time, scout waves you'll see are entirely comprised of shadows. Why is this? Well, because weakling is a rarely used role. What happens after a long play session is the heat ends up how I talked about (standard is arbitrarily high, special and miniboss are on the edge of the maximum), while the weakling heat is probably 0 or close to it. This means that late into a play session, and since it's a reactor this easily happens just playing through D3 normally (about half-way through the level depending), when scout waves spawn the game sees that weakling is the only role it's actually allowed to spawn, because every other role is over the heat cap. So, instead spawning a jumble of roles it spawns shadows (weakling) and _only_ shadows.
Feel free to confirm it yourself, as well. It's pretty easy to test. Load D3 on a fresh boot and piss of the scouts for the "normal" scout wave, then farm kills in C3 for ~20 minutes and do it again to get the mono-shadow waves. This is also why people playing R4D2 would sometimes play through the whole level doing alarms that only spawned strikers, shooters, and charger titans, but other people would get waves that included chargers for some reason. Strikers were actually the weakling role for the later alarms, starting at least at the class IV cluster, while chargers were the standard enemy. This meant that when standard heat grew to be arbitrarily large, it would lock out chargers from spawning. This is also why it would sometimes fix itself a few alarms down the line. If enough strikers were spawning with no chargers spawning at all, either the weakling heat would rise to be more than 150, and it would start defaulting to standard enemies every now and then, or the standard heat would cool down enough that it would be allowed to spawn by the normal mechanisms.
I was going to actually make this my full reply, but this was a long af bug explanation.
TL;DR: Heat doesn't cool down as fast as it's supposed to, so, after a long play session, none of the enemies are actually allowed to spawn so the game just picks a default instead until something becomes available. This creates an issue where roles that are rarely used become the only enemy that can be legally spawned, so many many more of them spawn in waves than are supposed to.
19:00 Speaking of more desync bugs after a restart me and my friend saw every door we ever touched on our last attempt as invisible for the rest of the mission. Very confusing when we are trying to hold out and couldn't tell if the doors were actually blocked.
This happens a lot to our group.
I just found this today after a buddy sent this to me. I didn't start playing until July 2023 (and have played for 1800 hours since then as of July 2024, RIP my social life) so I wasn't around for all this madness. I am glad to say I haven't seen any of these issues you have identified since I have been a member of the discord and it is likely because of your efforts and those like you so thank you for making the community better Khepri. I hope to see you around.
Fun fact - I was a "veteran" who played heavily and supported the game when it first came out. A few runs in I applied to become a discord moderator to help the team out. DocRed got nasty about me pointing out someone had a nazi symbol in their pfp, and whether it'd be appropriate to message the user and ask if they could change it for the server (not even banning or punishing them, just asking them first). I left after he threw a shitfit at me claiming I was overstepping my bounds for thinking about "harassing" a user over their nazi pfp....(I ended up quitting the same day over that lol)
Oh, and he also had a bad habit of deleting people's suggestions for the game + cosmetics + whatever not because they were trolling, but because he personally "didn't like it" or hated the ideas. One person had their submission for a cowboy hat cosmetic deleted and warned they'd be banned if they submitted it again for "trolling."
The team really shit the bed with letting that guy be community manager, not just with his crazy attitude with the modding stuff. He was legit unhinged and powertripping.
Edit - aw damn, Jorgen got banned for joking around? He was an oldie on that server, like, one of the originals. Damn. He was a good guy too.
theres another mod called lockout 2 and it has a terminal uplink that is a captcha which is really fun
Big fan of lockout 2, guys. Love lockout 2
@@mccad00 Lockout 2 is my group's favorite tech demo.
I never got why devs were hostile to modders. It's free content that you as a dev do not need to worry about at all, massively bumping up replayability and player-retention, for free.
Then recently I started figuring it out! Some devs are petty cunts who don't like competition, and they feel threatened by their modding community because some mods can single-handedly be better than their entire game (doesn't happen often mind, but it definitely can happen). This just gives me the feeling that they look down on modders and see them as a threat. Some of the best games ever were made pretty much exclusively by modders, it's why Valve loves hiring them, modders are passionate and given the right tools they can make incredible products. To want to stifle that and root it out like they're your enemy, is a good way to make a lot of enemies in your community. It never looks good, it never will, and it'll always be visible, modding communities never go un-noticed and trying to screw with that as a dev never goes well.
And now they're making a second game!
I feel like 10 chambers takes GTFO too seriously and forget that it’s just a game overall, it doesn’t need to make sense to the lore in cost of less intriguing gameplay, after all most of us play a game to enjoy it and not to just get past it without having fun
Seeing how much content, bug fixes and QoL changes modders can create in such a short time, I'm thinking 10C is working on a new game in the background. GTFOs pricing model isn't really made for the Games as Service model that the changing rundown supports. They probably have a few people working on GTFO updates while the rest is doing something else. I just can't think of a other explanation for the slow updates.
Then just say it.............if it's the case!
Exactly. They're full of shit. I been trying to figure this team out since Thursday when I tried the game. I ran though A1 with randoms. Two left. Me and another remained and eventually finished it after two hours of learning. It was great.
I said wow this games right on. Then I read up on it and quickly realized the devs do not communicate. They remove content regularly. The more I read the less I want it.
You gotta give it to them, the checkpoint system is so shoddily implemented, that sometimes you *do* get kicked back to lobby because the game ceases to function properly, and you get softlocked haha
27:00 I think the view of 10C has changed. How they built their engine seems to indicate that rundowns were meant to be created automatically so they don't actually need to take time creating new rundowns and only needing to create new items.
But as any indie dev seems to be destined to do, they got pressured to add lore, which made them super defensive of their creation and caused them to need to rethink every aspect of the game, what was once a game that could run and create new experiences indefinitely with minor tweaks/content additions, has now devolved into the hell this type of game was seeming to try to avoid.
The state of the game is still baffling. It feels like they've gone out of their way to make people hate them, or they're just so out of touch that this genuinely blindsided them.
The modding fiasco was, in my eyes, largely a result of the developers insulating the spaces they talked to people in, so they'd hand-pick a bunch of users and then only talk to these users while also either not letting them speak freely (due to how official spaces are moderated) or failing to take dissenting opinions seriously. This created an effect where people that wanted to mod the game would create underground communities in which like-minded people could exist and talk to each other, while official spaces became increasingly "clean" and agreeable. When the modding server came to life, I would not be surprised if the developers had no idea there were so many people that disagreed with the server rules, I think the devs thought that they were bullying a very tiny group of people with no community prominence up until the moment they saw how massive the server was and just how many of its big names were people in the BH program, people in the official server's moderation, and people with general clout in the community.
I'm bringing this all up because I don't think the underlying causes of the modding fiasco have gone away. It seems like they still heavily insulate their private channels, and it seems like they _very much_ think of these people as "the community," regardless of how well their views actually represent how people feel at large. When they were concepting checkpoints, weapon rebalance, ammo balance, the new levels, etc., chances are that either there were people in the BH program that had concerns but they were ignored, or the culture of the BH program is such that it got heaps of praise up until it actually dropped and then suddenly, when the people playing the game aren't hand-picked anymore, they're getting a ton of negative feedback they completely missed before.
I also struggle to find explanations for why exactly content drought, testing for bugs, and patching bugs is so horrible after hiring so many more people. Have they put so much on their plate that the game is just completely unsustainable? Have they hired the wrong people, and while production quality is much higher basic things that need to get done like programming, level design, and QA testing have been left to the wayside? Do they have the resources at their disposal, but the developers are either so incompetent or so mismanaged that almost nothing can get done?
Why did they go into 1.0 right now? The game is not finished, and their team is not able to deliver the content they need to be able to bring to the table. Are they hurting for money? Is it a part of their TenCent contract? Are they delusional enough to believe that features like MM, CPs, and bots are in a polished state?
Something else that is really annoying, these are all questions because we have no communication on what the hell is happening on their end. We only get vague allusions to the company needing some space, the game being just fine, actually, the game having so much good stuff in the works, and there's so much dismissal of anything anyone has to say that's critical of the game... It feels like the developers are either ignorant to their own failings or desperately trying to hide how bad things really are. I don't think that the game is in good hands, and, based on what we've seen so far, it seems like things are going to get worse before they get better.
While I think poking the bear on the main server is a bit stupid, I think it does reveal that the moderation themselves are pretty unprofessional. This happens especially when people are pointing people to the modding server, moderation is pretty trigger happy and they don't seem to be able to use their own discretion to be more realistic about rule enforcement (either they're not allowed to or they're regularly making bad decisions). Also, regardless of how the rules currently exist and are enforced, they're pretty dumb. Veteran players don't tend to share the developers' vision of the game, and plenty of them outright have no respect for it. You can't change how people view your game by forcing them to play it a certain way, it only breeds hostility.
I can't agree more with the idea that checkpoints could be perfectly fine if their implementation weren't so soulless. Yet another rushed feature, I guess.
Banger outro, btw.
With the BH points... one can say both are right. People are getting ignored and there is a lot of bootlicking too. At least it does look to me. Cannot say more obviously. I will leave the BH group too as this game is simply not fun anymore. I am really not sure what the Devs do or what their vision is anymore. Frustrating to say the least.
@@caopi9783
o7 fellow R1er.
@@caopi9783
o7 from a BH to another BH
Im a not a good player of GTFO, but with my friends we welcome the ckeckpoints, we are still learning how to play it correctly. I know we will certainly not be able
to end the whole rundown, but the checkpoints make us feel like we are progressing. we are stuck in D1 at the moment, we have been playing for several weeks everyday, the game is really hard to handle lol.
They don't have to be removed, but they can't remain in their current state. There's no meaningful acknowledgement by the game if you beat things without checkpoints, and this means that people who _want_ to play the hardest version of every expedition, how expeditions have been since R1, feel alienated. "Glad you liked the game in early access, but you're not who this game is for anymore." Just give them some kind of separate counter on the rundown screen where clears are logged, and associate at least some cosmetics with beating levels all in one go, so that skipping out on checkpoints can be an ultra-hardcore endgame instead of a challenge run you only do with people you know well enough.
Honestly when i bought gtfo right after release, checkpoints really helped us to get more familiar with the game. But if there were no checkpoints we would probably already be stealth zone speedruners aftrr the countless retries. Theyre kinda good but also bad at the same time.
Good points. I agree with the Checkpoint incentives for beating levels without them, just seems like an obvious thing. I can't really speak to the modding stuff, although I don't see why they don't lean into that more, let people create custom rundowns/levels themselves, lots of games do this to fill in content and add more features. You still keep the core rundowns that people get excited for. Either way, you summed it up for me at the end "It's always the same". For me it just seems like there's not enough. I started in R4 and loved it, R5 was ok but I started to slow down, same with R6. Hopefully they really bring it back in R7.
To me, GTFO at its core has always had this impossible task of trying to realize its vision of a truly hardcore experience while simultaneously making the game financially sustainable in the long run. The foundation of GTFO, namely the core gameplay loop and difficulty, is golden. It’s why I think I love the game so much. But its precisely because it had such a good start that I think the devs have spent the past 3 rundowns tip-toeing around shaking it up at all. GTFO is a niche game, as you said, and I think it was clear to both the vets and devs from very early on that this game would likely never become quite as popular as it needed to be.
I don’t mean to speculate, but as someone who’s been around since R2, I see this internal conflict at the core of the turmoil that has plagued this game’s development for so long. Arguably since R2. I believe 10cc still wants to make GTFO the game they envisioned from the start, but at the same time, doing so inherently keeps the game from attracting the fresh blood that it needs to keep its development alive. It’s a long-standing problem that is sadly a consequence of the sheer difficulty and obscurity of the game, and has been surfacing for quite a while now in the form of a lack of truly novel content and (as the vets see it) compromised integrity of the game.
This is a problem that my team and I believed needed to be resolved in R6. And while initial concurrent player counts were the highest they had ever been, that peak also fizzled out faster than it ever had before. I love the game a lot. So it makes me sad that now, I have a hard time imagining committed development continuing past R10.
A potential solution for it is to have the story/lore missions be "easier" but then have extra levels to challenge people.
@@zagstrukk too obvious. These devs would never do it.
Banned for using the cinematic mod in your video, bad boy. 🙃
With that out of the way, I thank you for taking the time to make this video. As a day one purchaser and player of GTFO and as a member of the Bug Hunters from R4-R5.5 where I willingly left due to the nature of the environment and otherwise, this is the summary of virtually everything I have spoken and critiqued with friends and the communities I have been a part of. There's no worse pain than seeing a game you truly loved playing, and still do love playing, steer itself into such a negative and outright harmful direction, essentially killing itself in the process.
I genuinely hope that the developers can take the time to look at these issues, if not from your video from someone else lodging the complaint against them in any other unofficial or official capacity, and take the time to re-evaluate what it is they are doing, why things are the way they are, and making efforts towards correcting some of the glaring flaws the game and the company making it have created.
I hope to see you hanging about in some of the sub-communities we share together, and I pray that we both can see this game make amends and begin to steer itself back onto a better path. Until then, please do take care.
Na man, there is no way I would play this without checkpoints. I don't have the time or the patience to sit down for 2 hours, just to have one mistake ruin the whole session. Not everyone plays the game like you and your friends do. Also, the tool/ammo/health spawns this rundown are perfectly fine in my opinion, resource management is still difficult without feeling too punishing. I think maybe my only criticism is that I would like more varied content besides just doing security doors to call in a wave to fight. I also wish there was more to collect around the levels such as weapon upgrades or weapon parts or something that would justify re-playing a mission in order to stock up for the newest - hardest mission.
Thanks for this video. I had been wanting to buy this game for along time(was about to pull the trigger today actually), but hearing how the company treats modders and the people in charge of their community has changed my mind entirely. Real shame, it looked great....
Yeah, I agree with most of what you said.
The High,Extreme,Overload system was a good way to balance the levels, make them shorter and easier for newer players and giving better players stuff to achieve while being recognized. Nobody was complaining that you can clear the level in an "easier version" because clearing the harder version showed up on your mission page. Checkpoints dont do that.
I also dont like boosters, they fall into the same category. I dont like my skill-based game to be centered around RNG mechanics, the game is not balanced around.
Yeah I didn’t like the boosters either, probably the worst thing to add.
The way the game was earlier felt actually fine, I don't think we needed these boosters and checkpoint system at all, seeing little red colored gems lying all around the complex breaks the immersion for me, I liked GTFO as it was at the start just pure and hardcore with no boosters and shit
I like boosters cuz they add to class building, i just wish they were less rng
@@saggyflapjax Yeah I mean sometimes it's just that constant beep sound when we have like 10 gems lying around in a small area and everyone's pickin em up, kinda breaks the immersion of a horrific complex environment.
@@sarthaksharma9322 could get one whenever you open a crate or cabinet. That would probably work
Sad. I've been keeping my eye on GTFO, hoping it would become something really special, but apparently it was just going to rot on my wishlist and perhaps fade into irrelevance.
Ditto. It was fun from what I played but it's everything else that tells me not to purchase.
Great video. Goes a lot more in-depth into the gameplay issues and bugs which I didn't know about. and yes, the problems are much worse than I thought.
I'll miss the Persona 5 tunes in your guide videos.
No idea how this cam up in my recommended. My story with the game ended a long time ago after about 5 rounds with friends and getting kicked into the lobby on the last one. The support ticket to which despite quickly receiving the label highest priority and containing complete logs and video of the incident, has seemingly not been looked at ever since. Checked that one specifically for you.
I was going to leave a like on this video until you started on checkpoints. And it's not that I think it's gatekeeping. I think it's dumb to say that checkpoints completely devalue the achievements of this game.
I have a lot of hours in this game aswell, tho not nearly as many as you because I only started late in R5. But I think you are severely downplaying how difficult the game is to clear at all. I understand all the mechanics, I know how to kite, I can accurately predict enemy pathfinding with waves for efficient mine and c-foam placement, I can stealth melee kill scouts with relative ease, I can consistently hit headshots and know how to prevent stealth from being broken when an enemy wakes up. I also know how enemy attack patterns work and how to sidestrafe and dodge to ensure I don't take any preventable damage.
But even despite all of this I struggle to clear levels. I generally don't even use checkpoints because if a run goes bad right before the end and I'm 2+ hours into a mission, then I just call it a day.
And that's all that checkpoints mean to me, someone who is very well acquainted with the game's mechanics but still struggles with levels, they are a time saver. Nobody enjoys going through an hour of basically the exact same shit again just for one more try at a difficult bit. Fuck that. It's not even gatekeeping, it's just humane game design. It's respecting the fact that 90% of your playerbase have a fucking life they need to get back to eventually. And the barest fucking minimum you can do is put in the occasional checkpoint in a 2+ hour run so that one wipe doesn't turn a 2 hour run into a 4 hour run.
2 hours for one session is already a gargantuan commitment to ask of most people. Fuck dude I've been sick at home for the past three months and it's a lot to ask from me.
In short, checkpoints devalueing achievement is bullshit, this game is still plenty difficult that clearing all the levels is already very impressive. If you don't like it, don't fucking use them, and if you want the bragging rights, just fucking mention that you didn't use checkpoints when you cleared it. There, now you sound even cooler because you willingly made the game harder for yourself.
Checkpoints objectively make the game easier. Clearing 9 segments in sequence demands some amount of consistency from players, but clearing 3 sets of 3 segments demands only 1/3rd of that. It makes it much easier to be pretty ill-equipped for an expedition and get through it anyway by virtue of luck and brute force. That isn't necessarily a bad thing on its own, it makes the game much more accessible, but it does genuinely devalue clears when every type of clear is lumped together.
I don't think that suggesting some sort of indicator should be added to the rundown screen, similar to what optional objectives are rn, is a big ask. Very simply, any change that gives succeeding without checkpoints any meaning would be way better than the system as it currently exists. If you don't have the time to really get the hang of a level, you can just get the normal clear, and people that have the time and energy can explicitly shoot for one-shot clears to prove that they have what it takes to get through the whole thing without dying.
@@Rayalot72 I mostly agree, but I do want to point out that een with checkpoints you have to do the entire level in one go because you can't shutdown the game and comeback to the checkpoint later. If you leave to the menu then you still lose all your progress.
I think what needs to be done with checkpoints is three fold.
First, your most recent checkpoint should be allowed to be accessed even after closing the game, until you've cleared the level or accessed a checkpoint on another level. But equipment should be locked in based on what everyone was carrying so you can use this to cheese the level with different guns for each segment.
Second, There needs to be a counter at the mission complete screen showing how many times each checkpoint has been used.
Third, the level needs to be randomized the same as starting a new level whenever a checkpoint is loaded to prevent memorization cheese.
Maybe this is a hot take, but when you mentioned rocket jumping, unintended features that kind of make a game feel unique, that was sentries doing more damage from behind for me. It was an interesting thing to me, the sentry being placed outside a door and in a weird way it highlighted how mindless these creatures are, standing with their backs to danger. But they removed it 😕
Not only that, but the sentries could accidently shoot you, making the strategy effective but dangerous in some circumstances
Okay so I know nothing about this game, only saw a friend play it once a year or so ago. Are you telling me that they straight up deleted old content from being played? And then started banning people who wanted to play the old content?
Their "Rundown System" gives you a bunch of levels, so far it has always been between 6 - 11/12 without extensions. But with every new rundown that is released they remove the old one from the game. If you want to play it you have to manually download an older version of the game with (or without) your friends in order to play those levels again.
And yes, they banned people for playing old content on their discord server aswell.
@@amaira1290 sounds like terrible devs with a terrible plan
The old rundowns arent deleted exactly but they're disabled in the jsons. You can see this in the game files while modding where there are rundowns that exists before R1
I genuinely think this game mostly makes itself, and they pretend they're actively developing it while collecting money and secretly working on their next game.
A counter point to the complaints about Checkpoints: If you don't like them (cause they do bug out your lobbies which has happened to me before) then just don't use them.
No, how about, don't add broken shit into a game that already isn't even 40% completed.
LUL i love the background gameplay :)
Real sad you're leaving but thanks for all the explanations, I hope we will be able to play toghether once !
i personally dont understand the hate toward checkpoints am no where near a veteren but i been playing for a year,and checkpoints is possibly the best feature they added especially in bs runs like e7c1,heck id pay for a mod that would remove infectious fog cuz its just abnoxious or lessen it ,strictly talking about the solo experience
I think checkpoints are a great QoL change. Why would you not want a system so you don't have to restart the whole level if something crashes or bugs out?
I don’t think he disagrees with this, he just thinks that there needs to be some actual incentive to not use checkpoints, which I would agree with. There is no downside to using checkpoints at all, which makes dying almost completely meaningless in some levels and leads to people brute forcing levels
Checkpoints are not a bad system inherently but they, due to a persisting fixed seed once you start a level, promote a way of playing in which there is no insentive to learn and understand but simply to memorize spawn locations and optimize this run in particular instead of coming up with an adaptational solution of how to react to different situations in multiple runs. If a run goes bad people sometimes just say lets wipe and reset to 5 minutes ago, theres way less of a hardcore aspect when theres nothing on the line to lose and way less motivation to think.
Also while it is entirely possible that people can also use them in order to understand and learn, if someone beats a level by brute force and someone does the intended way then that person has completed a harder challenge without any recogition or reward and is still set to the level of the other person which takes away that feeling of satisfaction as the outcome is the same, for example entire zones or reactor/terminal passwords can be memorized.
Although its funny to say it for this game, but normally the sole purpose of checkpoints shouldnt be to restart cause something breaks (which has literally never happened since they were introduced)
If checkpoints had limited uses like maybe 3 or 5, or it would randomize spawn locations there wouldnt be nearly as much complaints about their implementation.
The assumption that you should be able to get a clear without having a full survived run is not something everyone agrees with. I do not consider myself having cleared the map, if it hasn't been in one continuous run. Honestly it just feels embarassing to see yourself clear with a checkpoint. It doesn't feel like you deserved that clear.
@@RezaarSwe Where do you get the embarrassment from? That sounds more like insecurity than anything. Nobody cares if you beat it with a checkpoint or without. That does seem pretty gatekeepy to me.
@@Thenicktatorship how do you define gatekeeping? By having any standard at all to beat a level? What if you beat D4 in a version where you have infinite ammo and could finish any enemy with a single shot. if I have a problem with that... Am I gatekeeping? All games require SOMETHING of their players. What makes one gatekeeping and not the other?
while I genuinley agree with a lot of your points, but it does come off really obvious as someone who's worked on games in the past when you start touching on things you don't understand, and that sounds rude but I just don't want people getting the wrong idea on why things are coded a different way or built the way that they are. Being a programmer already entails enough dealing with people making a bunch of assumptions on things they don't understand the function of and yelling at you for it. There are a lot of times where people use something (like how you said the modular guns limits them on animation) to back a point, when the root issue is unrelated. Like I said, agree with things being a problem, but make sure you attribute it to the right place so common design elements and programming solutions don't end up the focus of peoples vitriol.
17:38 Sir. You didn't have to flex on me like this. Man's even pulled out the receipt. 😫
I feel like the rant is still pretty tame but yeah, relatable😏
this video is just depressing ;-;
I know I’m just nerding out but o love the choice of your music as it kinda symbolises your relationship with the game, some of the lyrics like “so I decided that I am done” obviously shows how your are finished playing the game as your stated in your video title and throughout your video. Secondly the lyric “I will always love the time that we shared” emphasises how even though you are finished with gtfo you enjoyed your time with it and (maybe) don’t regret spending countless hours in it. And Finally “I can only hope you find your way” shows how you wish that the fucking stupid ass devs can fix they game and “find a way” to make shit better.
I’m such a nerd that a just did an analysis about an outro song but what else am I suppose to do at 11.46pm 😂
I agree with the modding part, disagree with the rest. Being rewarded for clearing the rundown without checkpoints? Then there should also be a reward for clearing it with melee, or with bots, or solo.
Checkpoints are great, maybe R6 was way easier than the others, but R7 is back in the difficult zone, and nobody wants to keep resetting from the very beginning a level that can take 80-90 minutes to clear.
Why do all the games I love most fall to this cycle? A great fundamental basis that is never realized in the way it could have been. First Minecraft and now GTFO.
If you like the game, in the R6 Extraction community we welcome anyone to join us. The game has some similarities to GTFO, so it might fit your bill: a focus on tactical gameplay involving stealth, using your gadgets correctly, and fighting creepy aliens (although far less horrifying). We also don't have assholes as community managers, and the game has no checkpoints or other features that would reduce the stakes.
55:00 sliding is actually an intended mechanic, there's specific code that handles sliding.
lf unban
Lets just say the company does not want their game to succeed. Very deep explanations and factual statements, great video.
They already started development of another game and they claimed they won't be abandoning gtfo, but.....well..... Not very convincing, since the game has always been in a stale status.
great video. really hard to see all the shittyness thats happened behind the scenes with this game. the devs and community managers have truly squandered all potential this game had. rip
No more guides… ☹️
in the person your directly sending this video too, we all have bad days/week/months. sometimes the reasoning behind stuff that happens online is a lot less clear than you would hope. not defending anyone, but i know back trying to run communities early 2k sometimes i went off the handle on ppl that didn't deserve it for whatever reason. i had a lot of problems at the time and not a lot of solutions, and the "homies" on the web whom id been playing/hanging out with for almost a decade didn't have shit to say, except negative stuff. it gets to you man, as a dev, or especially a community expert. 10 chambers should have appointed someone new. no doubt. but you don't know that mans life or what his contract to uphold was. so don't rip on the guy, rip on the company. cuz in essence its not his take, its the overlords that make him a puppet. my 2 cents anyhow. side note, i wish this game got better and more popular. only reason i found this video is I'm reading the Eula very carefully in oct of 2023. cheers
Was a pleasure giving a couple pointers during the making of this video. I really still want to like this game, but the devs are still trying their hardest to get rid of their playerbase it seems.
I'll be seeing you in RoR Khep.
Not like you care or anything but D0cR3d did get kicked or left 10CC a while back. If somebody knows the reason please do tell me as well
He still works in the company, he just doesn't interact with the community anymore, which is probably for the best.
@@Rayalot72 Source = trust me bro?
@@phantom9312 Uh, yes. I've asked people that have ears in BH, and I've been messaged myself.
If you're gonna get triggered, where the fuck is your source, because I know for a fact that you're parroting some unsubstantiated rumor.
@@Rayalot72 What's hilarious is both of you made unsubstantiated claims in this thread without providing evidence - but you get mad at him without seeing it from his POV.
@@owen551 You either know what's up, or you have no fucking clue. OP has no fucking clue.
Yeah
Btw datablock text all look like numbers because of Localisaton, such that text can change based off language pref
So how did you like Rundown 7?
Not being bad towards swedish companies, but looking at the communication levels of DICE, another swedish based company, for Battlefield, I see a correlation.
Good to know I shouldn't go anywhere near this game after the free weekend.
Me and my bois tried to post this video on the GTFO discussion page and got this taken down for abusive language and trolling. the devs cant handle the truth.
You’re right but put yourself in there shoes. Would you want all your customers to leave? Its not like the game is doing that good as it is imagine a new player was interested in trying the game and saw this video? They’re looking at it from a business standpoint.
@@SonnyMatrix No they aren't, if they were looking at it from a business standpoint they wouldn't have gotten this far gone. IF they looked at this from a business standpoint, they would see that modders are free agents waiting to make content for free, all you need to do is set up people to comb through the mods and clean them up. If they looked at this from a business standpoint, they'd have taken into account player feedback, rather than ignore it and go "We know what you want better than you do." If they looked at this from a business standpoint, we wouldn't need to be here debating about a business standpoint.
@@lordrevan571 IM GONNA NEED YOU TO CALMMMMM DOWNNNNN......ITS GONNA BE OK YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS!
They lied to the community completely. They said that gtfo would be available at launch (1.0) for Xbox, PlayStation, and pc but it was pc exclusive. I got the game on pc btw, but the devs had me waiting checking for 3-4 years.
Look at Void interactive doing with Ready or Not, they make discord announcement promoting some of the mods out there.
Yes, only after getting into a rather large debate about mods themselves and taking a rather hardline purist stance all on their own. That and there was the whole issue with the original mod discord owner deleting the discord after some debates with the staff of the Ready or Not discord itself. So that's not the best example to use in my opinion.
Come to play Deep Rock Galactic :^) Devs are nice as well as the community along with pretty fun content :^)
halfway through this and it sounds like they(dev team) hate modders because they do more and put out better content then the dev team. So it just sounds like money grubbing but they dont wanna look bad
GOATed video as always.
this is so sad
I think the real reason about kiting and limiting general player freedom of movement and actions isn't about the fact players are exploiting the game but more so that, by using these "tactics", players don't need to convince any friends to play their game, and so, they don't get us to advertize their game for them.
I would love to get to fight a more diverse amount of enemies while running and and using my environnement to keep the upper hand. The goal isn't necessarely to make DooM, but to offer players more options to explore and fight and encourage them to try new things, even mid fight.
All those tactics looks like cheating but the're supposed to be shooters basics mechanics.
People kiting looks like cheating because no enemies can follow your path. If you were forced to not run and jump to dodge or run away, fighting would only be about aiming and shooting and would definitely become like any "generic" shooter.
Those tactics are not glitches, it's the way players act to compensate for the lack or freedom: They should look at it and think "it looks weird, but it is something that can add fun or ways to have fun. We just need to look how to integer it in a proper way". Improve enemies movement to find more ways to corner us like jumping off (at least some) ledges for example.
Just to say, I totally get the "hardcore" mindset of the game but I'm scared to be playing a game where I'm stuck with a linear set of choices in a linear set of situations or against a linear set of enemies (this one is already present in the game, most enemies are the same).
I'm pretty new and didnt know about the modding issues, and its like really fucking weird to me that they are so anti modding when they came from payday, which is a game that basically nobody plays without modding atleast the HUD.
imagine this all happens because one of the devs eat someones else food in the company fridge
False 🤓
🤣
When do you get banned?
@@Gandalf17374 when you stop hiding behind fake accounts
@@Fireblade_GTFO why don’t you work?
i also agree with stamina
lfg legacy
lfg L3-E2
based
No cheese no mod no mayo no moderator 18+ e-girls only at least 50 victory royales and has a micropeen
Need one more 11744892617484927
Plot twist, Rayalot, myself and two others were all wrapped up in that PM incident. Rayalot was outright aggressive off the bat to doc, so it was a little deserved. Even if D0c and the dev community is the joke that it is. You really do hit a lot of points on the head tho :)
Glad to see you exist still ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@blackdragon8951 Unfortunately
While I don't shill for 10Chambers and am critical myself I think most of the criticism in this video is overreacting. I wish the developer would encourage modding but in the end if they choose not to then you have to respect it as the game is basically their property. Same for community feature requests. I wish for a lot of new features and improvements and bugfixes etc. but don't expect them to be implemented.
You clearly weren't here for most of the problems and more than likely recently showed up. Most of the complaints in the video stem from promises made and then failed to be kept over and over, with much of them being hidden behind yes men and the toxic as fuck Mods in the discord. This isn't overreacting, this video was a valid critique on the terrible near narcissistic arrogance 10CC has to game development. You know that Road Map for GTFO? About half way into it they just decided it wasn't valid and left it up, but any time someone pointed it out they got a "A Road Map isn't set in stone nor does it indicate the future development path of a game". Swedish devs are just bad at game development, they think they're better than everyone else, look at how they treated modders.
Also, it's not their property, get this through your head once I purchase the game it is mine, this is now my property to do with as I please and modify to my liking as I please, end of story. I know you feel like you're going to get a handjob from 10cc for defending them but they are not good people in this.
@@lordrevan571 Hi, I bought the game when R1 came out but only started playing with R6. So it is correct that I am mostly ignorant on what the developers promised in early access. Do I wish the game would be expanded and further developed? Yes. But surely I wouldnt make a video about it. If promises or ideas didn't turn out to be feasible.. well they are a business. They have to earn money. I spent what, maybe 25€ on the game? I played it for 500 hours (cleared all levels). I see this as a fair investment.
Again, I would really like to see the game being developed further. But I think I got out enough enjoyment to not be bitter about it :D
@@obsidiangaming88 That's fine, I did not, nor did many other people get what they paid for this game in terms of dedication and time wasted. That's fine you felt happy, but keep your opinion to yourself, the rest of us are disappointed and expected me from a company who promised more. Valid criticism is far better than blind subservience and since you got enough enjoyment out of it, who cares what you have to say.
That outro, damn nice :)
Wait, why they threatened Modder for? This I don't understand they would do this to anyone who loved their game?
I can see some of your points and its a shame to loose you because I always liked your content. I gotta say tho that I can understand why the devs arent pushing modded content and old rundowns. Splitting up you playerbase isnt a good thing. Rundown 6 might be a little to easy for Veteran players but the curve is much better for newer players. For those players that get bored with R6 modding exists and as long as its tolerated I think the balance is quite okay.
As someone who's first experience ever with this game was R5 totally blind. I wholeheartedly disagree. it's better for casual players who don't want to learn the games systems. different then new players who do want to learn to experience this game at it's fullest.
34:00 "people are clearing it in a month" try 48 hours lmao
I agree with everything, if it wasn't for my friends and mods from the mod community, I wouldn't have been around this game for a long time.
But I dont understand..
What was your role in all of this?
Were u a developer on their team or one of the modders wanting more?
I havent played this game so much so its interesting
Prominent community member. The most active long-term players in general are disillusioned with the game, and sure enough they've basically confirmed it's going to be left behind after R8 releases.
@@Rayalot72 waah waah waaah
@@Spherehead123 You're a little late, my guy.
Not many of the problems with the game during R6 have been resolved, and now certainly won't ever be.
I think it's probably fair to have low expectations for Den of Wolves given 10CC's track record. Every problem that GTFO had is probably going to be repeated in Den of Wolves, there just isn't any evidence that they've improved that much over time.
@@Spherehead123 Anime pfp and brainrot response, as expected.
Every time someone point out something wrong in the game (bug, mechanic, whatever) on Discord, there is always someone from the devs team (Doc, Proclaim or Calle) that is just making joke about it like saying the bug is a feature. That is what pissed me off the most, they always act like they don't give a shit about it because.....well.....they don't give a shit about it!
developers want what they want, they are responsible for their game as well as their community. however, the GTFO discord community has been left in the hands of the moderation team and "manager(s)", leaving their behavior as well as their actions unchecked for some time. while the community management can have holes in its system, or the way it functions, the development team at 10 chambers seems fairly small and they seem to be fairly dedicated to their work, such as how they have stated in numerous channels their willingness to keep their vision of the game at top priority, such as their progressive rundown system and prohibiting the playing of older rundowns, which they have been forced to take action against the entire community to prevent this. although, newer as well as older members of the community have not violated this rule against older rundowns, they should still follow it, which the creators of the game have requested us to. breaking this rule is a risk to themselves, which clearly is being enforced and punished. another thing that the developers at 10 chambers encourage against, or some say they "neglect", is its modding community and it's involvement in the main server. as stated before, the developers at 10 chambers have a vision of their game, which most likely plays no role in the modding community at this time. they do not encourage modding or the use of modded content in their server/game, as stated in the rules. the developers and moderation team of discord do what they do, and the community is allowed to decide towards it, or against it. if you do not enjoy the team behind the game or do not enjoy the community, you can step away from it all, as the title of this video has stated. others who see this video and agree may do the same, and the developers will continue to develop their game as they see fit. they are not required to change for whatever complaints may arise, but many mechanics and features had been in planning for a long time, and if members from the community do not enjoy these decisions then there other games and communities they can take part in. there will never be a perfect development team as many expect, but you also cannot expect a team that will fit with everyones standards.
the modding community itself may be more suitable for many GTFO fans, where the rundown developers would be more willing to listen to their community and advice on changes in their content.
drama like this is incredibly infuriating to me, as well as how many others bring up issues such as stamina not being the solution to kiting, or a lack in content between rundowns and extensions. these are issues that can not be solved to the communities satisfaction and will remain as either a problem themselves or the cause of new ones. this content will always contain flaws to be pointed out and nothing can be perfect, but well off enough that (in this case) the majority of its fanbase enjoy said content as is, whereas the opposition may either continue to pursue those flaws, or leave the enjoyment to the people who enjoy it.
They have over 80+ people working on the game now, so no, it's not a small team at all. "they are not required to change for whatever complaints may arise" Wrong, again, they are indeed required to change for whatever complaints may arise, but only to a point. Player feedback and feedback in general is not something the 10cc team seems to agree with, they have a very arrogant way of dealing with it, going so far as to condecend people for making stupid suggestions or otherwise calling them out on misplaced logic. This has nothing to do with finding the perfect team, or the perfect community, but a team that actually listens to the community to some degree, something 10cc does not do, at all.
They're required to make a product, one that will sell and bring in a profit, they are failing at this. The game GTFO is meant to be a one and done type game, wherein you play the level once, beat it and wait for the next content drop, this type of business model is not at all sustainable unless you can drop content once every 2-3 months, any longer and people will eventually move on. 10cc views the game as a "Not something you need to play every day" and have stated before they "Don't want people to only play this game." That in of itself, shows they don't intend to put much effort into the game going forward, and have thus shown that to be true from R3-6, we've had minimal fixes and poor content drops.
They can keep making this game as they see fit, but they'll be making it for maybe 20+ people when it's all said and done, and the rest of us will have long moved on. I wonder when no one's left playing Calle will still be on the discussions talking down to people who call him out on his lies and being woefully uninformed.
@@firs7804 Drama like this is what happens when a toxic company actively goes out of its way to harm the playerbase rather than help it, this is what you get. 10cc asked for all this, and the community has responded, this is why the game doesn't have any more than 200+ people playing it at peak times, and only has 1k+ during rundown drops. It's never going anywhere because they refuse to listen to any feedback suggestions. Sniper melee recently got fixed, you know how? They whitelisted a fucking mod that fixed it, by changing a 1.0 to a .5 value. You're telling me, a team of 80+ people couldn't figure this out after 2+ years? They deserve the hate they get.
About the modding situation. It honestly seems pretty simple to me. If the devs specifically state that modding the game is against the rules, and state that in their EULA and discord rules, then mods should not be developed or available to the player base.
I'm not really experienced with modding or modding communities of other games, but if 10 Chambers does not want mods to influence their player base, and state it in their rules, then they can do anything within their legal rights to prevent it. Its that simple.
Now the argument that they should allow mods is another discussion, one that im not going to partake in.
Seriously though. Why would you get mad at the mods for doing their job? @ 10:28. You are pissed that the mods are enforcing the rules of the discord, which is literally their job. If the rules say "no mods" or "don't play old rundowns" then its quite simple, you don't do it. And if you want to do it, don't do it in the official discord, while in a call with one of the devs. I mean what were you expecting?
You complain that you get banned for breaking the rules in the discord. You also complain about the inconsistency of the rule enforcement. It's like stealing from a store every day with your friends and one day you get caught. Then you and your friends get punished, but you get mad because you were the only one who stole something, and the fact that you have done it countless times before without getting caught/ noticed somehow justifies it. That thinking is out of touch with reality. If you're breaking the rules, you and those associated are going to get in trouble.
@ 11:50. I mean it is quite childish to mock a company and break their rules right in front of their face. Then it is even more childish to rant about it while trying to justify your actions. lmao. And yea, im sure the devs have said some condescending things, but that comes with every argument. It's never only one side that is in the wrong. I'm also sure that you don't agree with some of these rules, but breaking them constantly and mocking the devs is not going to change anything. If you want changes to happen, constantly breaking rules and mocking/ starting shit with devs is not the way to do it.
I respect your opinions on what you want 10 Chambers to allow in their community, but I don't respect how you act and respond to the devs and discord mods when they enforce their own rules.
Nah. Modding GTFO with the mod manager blocks you from playing with unmodded players so it doesn't affect anyone who chooses not to use them. When mods have no affect on other people than those who choose to use them, and devs still say no mods, they can go to hell and I'm gonna do it anyway. Some of the best PC gaming content going back 20+ years has been thanks to mods and many games are outright kept alive by a healthy modding community. See 11 years of Skyrim for example. It's literally free content for the players and more incentive to buy the game for the devs.
It's true that the rules were stated and he broke them, so him being banned was fair game. But I still think it's silly to have a rule in the first place against something that isn't hurting anyone. But whatever. I'm not involved in the GTFO community anyway. I just hope they fix some bugs and we get a few more rundowns. Shame the game isn't more popular but I don't know that there's a whole lot they can do to fix that beyond making the game even easier than R6, which I don't particularly want. R6 difficulty has been about perfect. I thought the checkpoints were a great addition and would keep more people around but I guess that didn't happen.
@@DeceptivePastry Yea I agree R6 difficulty was pretty good imho, and the checkpoints seemed like a good addition to me. Others couldn’t disagree more though. The devs just have to focus on implementing new and interesting mechanics instead of changing the “broken” mechanics they have been introducing in R6 and previous rundowns. It seems like everything they have added since R3 has been met with so much community backlash by all kinds of different people that all they are doing is fixing everything.
Also, I can see why devs don’t like most mods. It splits the player base, and skews their storytelling and rundown system. I don’t really play any mods anyway, so I don’t know much about the modded rundowns/ stuff like that.
@@skyrope9446 "It splits the player base" Maybe moreso in the case of some other games. The way GTFO works I don't believe there's that much overlap with people who haven't finished the vanilla rundown and people who play modded rundowns. Most of the people playing modded have already seen all the rundown has to offer and would likely stop playing or play less often until more content otherwise.
Usually people start modding when:
1. The mod introduces a needed quality of life fix that the devs didn't include.
2. They're getting bored of the vanilla content and want something fresh.
if you play R6 now will you get progression/skins?
They didn't really fix any major bug like sniper melee or checkpoint for r7 after half year. Some levels of r7 are buggy as fuck, namely d1c2
Just got into the game and I really feel like stealth is the worse part of the game. The devs focus so much on hard countering speed-runners, but haven't done much to flesh out one of the core mechanics of the game. They just seem disorganized and clueless
I bought this game 1 day ago and already regret giving these devs my money...
I wish they could have delivered the exact same looking game as the E3 trailer 2017. GTFO is just dead for now, R7 didn't changed things, worse, many old players don't see any intereset in it and so, just complete the rundown, and do not play much later.
Better play mods that some guys just put so much effort in it, as it can be seen while playing.
47:05 epilepsy warning
AFAIK and what they've been telling us it's tile generation + customization of the layout provided by the procedural generator.
And even with my limited gamedev knowledge I'd say that it should be absolutely possible to adjust even the "end result" that way.
TBH lighting and setups of many rooms certainly doesn't look like it's "generated", so I belive them on this one.
Remember when this game tauted itself on Simon Viklund and being from ex-Payday 2 devs?
Yeah... turns out they went the way of Back 4 Blood, I guess. Just down the drain (if for likely different reasons)
RIP GTFO, had so much potential and ofc failed. Sad thing is, I'm not even angry, sad or even surprised because that is now the norm. There's like a crap-ton of games out there that had potential and failed just like this so I've gotten used to it. Oh well. Thank you guys for the good times in GTFO! You were awesome and you made this game fun! Hope we'll meet in a new game.
I need to mention, the same people saying people are going on a witchhunt after moders and the modding community are the same people who think its ok to go into public lobbies and not say they are modding beforehand, they are also the same people who often think that outright cheating [for example using weapons you cannot use or automatically opening all doors and aggroing all enemies] is quality of life. THESE are the people we are trying to keep out and there is an entire discord dedicated to modding, if you are caught modding in pubs without asking the lobby if its ok beforehand then you will almost certainly get banned on both the server where modding is ok and on the main server, you only screw yourself over by doing that, just ask first or go to the modding server WHICH IS POSTED ON THE MAIN!
Idc if its quality of life, i really don't. But don't outright cheat and say "oh its bug" or "skill" no you are straight up cheating and acting like you aren't and that's not ok, I wouldn't mind if they would ask instead of trying to play it off as not modding.
based
I’ve encountered many of these bugs, and also many bot bugs, like them spawning in with no weapons, and only tools, or the other way around, only weapons, no tools, and only weapons. I also encountered the old bug where bots couldn’t climb ladders with power cells, and I’ve also had many runs get recked by sudden lag spikes when playing online. Also bots getting themselves downed by sentries, or shooting you from behind, and yet I can still say without a doubt it is one of my favorite games. GTFO will always hold a special place in my heart, and I understand where you’re coming from, but your more recent non-GTFO videos have been getting crap views. Your channel is clearly suffering; you should consider coming back.
My experience with this game has been short, first when it released I tried it and it seemed like a fun coop game to play with friends but ultimately as we didn't understand much of it and there wasn't that much to do we just stopped playing. Recently I picked it up again in R6 just to find that everything is just the same or worse, no progression ,the inability to replay previous rundowns and poor netcode and optimization in general. Generally I don't mind the lack of progression IF (big if) the game is fun enough, and hitting weird zombies while crouching in the dark in the head with a hammer is not fun at all. I have never seen a stealth game in which the stealth mechanic is so dull and boring.
what is sniper melee??
I don't know exactly how it works, but put simply, it's an issue where non-host players have some desync from the host's server that causes enemies to hit them from around corners, through walls, and long distances (sniper melee) because on the host's and server's side the enemies are in range and able to hit them
If you never figured it out for whatever reason two years ago. Sniper Melee was and still is a case where the enemy can hit you from across the room due to desync or just lag. It was never fixed due to poor performance and still plagues the game to this day.
If I were any good as a dev and put out content, I would be very wary of modders. It could reflect badly, if development was still quite new a lot would change and break stuff, checks to guard against OP modded guns in official levels might not be a thing (yet) so you gotta stop that. In Alien Swarm and L4D2 there were major modded campaigns with real issues and people bitched and moaned about it because "game bad". It was the mods. It was usually very rough around the edges and either overly easy or overly hard.
Then again, people will want mods. People will want to make their own. It aids popularity of a game (potentially), keeps it alive longterm, etc.
I think the best idea would be to put big red text: Mods are not supported and we will not give support on any issues with it. The end. Anyone complains or has any problems with mods: GTFO, you are on your own. No help.
Older rundowns would be nice to have. But not all are going to be great and good.
Maybe just use the best levels and ones needed for story progression, at rundown 10 or so, let everyone play those. Then keep it going with R11 and on. One button to go to "Classic Rundown" or "Older Rundowns".
Bugs suck and do need fixing and more priority. Especially doors staying closed for 1-2 players while the rest walks through.
And only being ablem to alter the apparel of other players but being unable to change your own weapons. Seen that too much.
so true king
Ok bye
oof
insightful and direct, I now hate gtfo
im sorry you can't play the game exactly the way you want to play it