Great content. You do a good job with your channel. As I understand it, the point of the 7PRC is not necessarily to match or beat the velocity of the 7 Rem Mag. As I understand it, the purpose is to be able to seat long, heavy for caliber projectiles out further so as not to intrude into the powder capacity. Within standard hunting ranges of up to 400 yards, I see no advantage of the PRC over the Rem Mag. Where the PRC should come into its own is for longer shots using high BC projectiles. Also, the PRC is held to match grade tolerances. I don’t have either. I have a 7mm-08. But, as a Kentucky whitetail hunter, the longest shot I have at any of my current hunt places is about 250 yards. So the 7mm-08 suits me just fine.
You can seat long with the rem mag lol especially if you got a custom rifle or even a browning on some guns are made long. The tolerance is whatever you make it I don’t understand that statement
I agree with all your points but if the prc wasn't supposed to compete with the rem mag why do hornady keep overstating the prc's performance. In my mind hornady are pushing the prc to try to take market share away from the rem mag and it simply can't compete with it
@@craigmandall9420 Hornady developed the cartridge. It does what it was made to do, and they are great at marketing. So, you are right, but then again, the 7mm PRC is a great cartridge for what it was made to do. It is silly to have to re-barrel or get a custom rifle just to match or do better than an off the shelf rifle that does the job. Hornady shot themselves in the foot when they changed powder and lowered the velocity of their loads. They should have known better. But the cartridge is designed well. Very little if any stretch in the case when resized. And one can get book velocities in a good rifle using the right powder.
Well said. Shoot what works for you and don't try to compare calibers or cartridges without stating it's intended purpose! I wish more people would be specific. Are you claiming cartridge x is better than y for benchrest? Elr? Prs? Hunting? Plinking? Fitting multiple roles? Mil/le usage? That's a real debate. Just arbitrarily claiming one is superior just comes off as well I drive a Ford and daddy drove a Ford, never drove anything else but I'm 100% sure ford is the best truck you can get. Lol
You know what I’m about to say 😮 Compare the 7 Rem Mag 7PRC And the 6.8 Western Same projectiles 165g or 175g You know I’m a great fan of my 6.8 Western & we know it needs all the support it can get from gun & ammo manufacturers 🇦🇺👍
Rem arms now chamber the 7mm rem mag in 1in 8 twist and comes with 26 in barrel..I bought a new Rem arm 700 .243 it has a 1 in 8 twist also..twist rates are now stamped on the barrels of new Rem arms 700s.
Thanks for the info Aaron! I have both calibers, only in a 1/10 in my .243 and 1/9 twist in my 7mm Rem mag. A 1/8 would be nice to shoot heavier projectiles 👊😎🇺🇸
I seen comments on a post somewhere that hornady initially loaded 7prc with reloader 26 but had to switch to staball due to powder shortages. I've also seen people claim that the initial batch of factory ammo was a good bit faster..much controversy around the 7prc lol I have a rem 700 in 7prc I figure since it's made such a splash ..sooner or later someone will get their factory ammo right.
Ran into a “ballistics bro” at the range today wielding a 20” shorty PRC. He scoffed at my old 7RM. I’m guessing he didn’t realize his boxed ammo running 2750 can’t catch a 180 grainer cookin’ at 3070 😂 I just have to smile and shake my head…
I bet you are both happy. Speed isn't everything. Maybe he loves his rifle for shorter than long range suppressor hunting. That seems to be the thing. I myself want the barrel length that gives the best performance. Most rifle makers reduce the barrel length an inch or two from what is really where the rifle should be to get that. 308's should even have 24-inch barrels instead of 22 inches and less. Magnums should have a minimum of 26-inch barrels. You get less performance with a lot of muzzle flash with shorter barrels. Enjoy you shooting. Be happy!
Thanks for taking the time for the videos Relaoding Weatherby. The big take away from them is how anemic the Hornady factory ammo in 7prc is. That and you roll the dice buying a moss berg rifle. The 7prc cartridge is a good design and in well built rifles does what it was meant to do(throw heavy high bc bullets at moderate velocities). I have been trying to do load development for a Seekins PH2 in 7 mag the last few weeks and it’s crazy slow. 180’s at 2740-2760 fps. 160 class bullets at 2850 fps. Anything faster and the groups go from 1/2” to 1.5”. If you compare that to what my custom 7prc can do with 2” less barrel then it makes the PRC look way more favorable.
168 and 175ABLRs shoot great in my Rem 700 7mag . 168s at .020 from the lands and the 175s at .050 from the lands. Are you doing any seating depth testing? I've found that the Berger vld seating depth method works very well. However, I modify it a little for my hunting rifles. I start at .015 or .020 then .050, .070, .090, then .130. This method has never failed me with the ABLR bullets.
While the Remmie and the PRC are both great rounds, I think I’ll stick with my 7x57! The 7x57/275Rby is good enough for elephants and since I don’t think I’ll ever hunt anything bigger than a pachyderm, I’ll just roll with the good old 7x57, lol!
Once again you have ( proven ) that these new cartridges are not needed ! It is all Hype and about selling new rifles !…… Thanks for all your hard work for us !
They work better for reloading and long-range shooting eliminating some of the flaws in existing cartridges like the belted cases that do separate when reloaded a number of times. Nothing wrong with any of the cartridges that have been here for a long time. They are all good. Having said that the new cartridges are totally different cartridges. The 7mm Mag he was shooting had a higher twist rate than the standard 1-10 twist. That is why he could shoot the longer bullets accurately. The new cartridges are shot in rifles that are specifically higher twist for heavier bullets. You can be fine with all the old cartridges, but you do have your head in the sand if you think people don't need newer high-tech bullets. Long range shooting competition people will tell you different. And the test here he even made major disclaimers. You can only do honest comparison of 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm PRC shooting two rifles identical except for the cartridge itself. You would have to shoot the same bullet, same powder as well. The barrel lengths would have to be identical as well as the barrel diameter and style. The 7mm Rem Mag is here to stay. It is readily available and hunting it has taken all of the North American game flawlessly.
@@garrytalley8009 Yea , these new cartridges are target cartridges being sold as hunting cartridges . Belted cartridges aren’t that big of a deal as long as you adjust the resizing die to headspace on the shoulder instead of the belt .
Would be interesting to also compare the 7mm Wby Mag with the Rem Mag and PRC. Ruger Hawkeyes in 7mm rem mag come with a 1 in 8.5 twist. Guess Weatherby should think about doing the same in their mark v.
Weatherby magnums have only two problems. They burn barrels out is number one. The cost of ammunition is the other. Of course, with the price of the ammo it makes it less likely you will shoot it enough to burn the barrel out.
I bet the 300W punished you for that group. That said, it doesn't look like the up-side of the PRC outweighs the vast more economical choice of the 7mag if one were shooting factory ammo and reloaders are able to get at least as good performance out of the 7mag. I may be off base here, but the chrono doesn't lie.
7 mag all day over PRC. The PRC and 6.5 Creed have only added twist to what we had in '62. Or 130 years ago in the 6.5 case. 22 creed however is a fantastic addition
You are so silly and have no idea what you are talking about. There is a lot of difference as to the style of the case and the ability to burn powder more efficiently and actually easier to load for as well. The 7mm Rem Mag will always be here it is established as a renowned cartridge. The 7mm PRC is a better designed cartridge. If it was not long-range shooters wouldn't be shooting it. It was designed specifically to shoot heavier high BC bullets as was the Creedmoor as well. They are Nitch cartridges designed for precision target shooting but they can be used hunting as well.
@@garrytalley8009 You're not wrong in any of your points, other than to call someone names. However, the difference in the two cartridges is measured in microns and not miles. For most hunters taking shots at reasonable hunting ranges, terminal performance between the two cartridges is essentially identical.
@@philipdamm8850 It isn't even worth talking about actually. I will apologize if I was calling names. I actually like all the cartridges and they all do what they we designed to do. The PRC family is targeted for long range target shooting of larger than caliber bullets with high BC bullets and it has a better case design and does everything it was designed to do. As the 7mm Rem Mag is still a fine hunting cartridge and has lived up to its reputation as a great hunting cartridge and even a sniper round at one time. But honestly the belted case is not needed, and the shorter fatter case make it more forgiving for load development and longer high BC bullets as well as the shoulder angle reduces case stretch immensely. I have had both. Like them both but the newer cartridge is not hype. I had given my son my 7mm Rem Mag because of ammo availability he does not reload. Just recently I gave him my 7mm STW which I reload for and it's his favorite rifle. Since I did that and wanted another higher powered 7mm other than my 7mm-08 I got the 7mm PRC and I do reload for it, and I am not disappointed. It does what it was designed to do. I don't like belted cases. The weak point is at the belt. I had a 30-Super that split cases. So much that I changed the barrel to make the 7mm STW. I just get tired of everyone losing the point and calling a new cartridge hype. The 6.5 Creedmoor is demeaned big time, and that cartridge does what it was designed to do, and it does it well from targets to medium sized game with well-placed shots. Have a great day!
@@ReloadingWeatherby Right on since they changed the recipe using different powder but left the velocity the same on the box. Vitavouri N560 might be a decent powder to try in the 7mm PRC. I did try some in my rifle with very good velocity. I do need to try and tweak it. I only shot about 10 shots with a load in the Hornady Manual. Debating to just try to tune it with my EC-Tuner Brake or work a load on setting zero and then tune it. But you may not be into another extra equation to deal with like a tuner brake. But they do work.
Did you do a seating depth tuning for the PRC? In your opening comparison it looked like you had the exact same C.O.A.L for the PRC as you did for the Rem Mag. That would make a lot of jump for the PRC and make it less accurate if you just hand load the same C.O.A.L. without testing beyond just velocity comparisons.
@@tannervanasten feeling threatened? I definitely am not a PRC hater, (own a 6.5 PRC and 300 PRC). Simple fact, that the fast twist 7 RemMag is just as effective and equivalent. No need for you to be a keyboard warrior
You are wrong. They changed powder because they said they could not get the powder originally loaded anymore. It was getting stated velocity. And Federal gets the stated velocity. It is a target cartridge that can be used hunting as well. It does what it was designed to do.
Random, but maybe they just prefer the ELDm bullets. I have several rifles that prefer the eldx over the eldm. Can’t figure out why but I’m not the first person to have this issue as well.
I love the 7-08 results. I think im going to try them in mine. I'm at 1500 ft elevation, so I'm not sure if they will stabilize, but Im to courious now not to try them.
Surprisingly, the fact that the 7 mm Remington mag is a belted Magnum makes it more intrinsically accurate than a 7mm PRC. If you don't know that, you're not paying attention to the way belted Magnums function inside of a chamber. Because they had space on the Belt the round is always held in the center of the chamber. Rounds that do not have a belt. Unless they have a uniquely tight chamber, they are going to be setting either at the bottom of the chamber or at one side or the other depending on what type of extractor mechanism they have on that particular firearm you might be using. That does make a difference as for velocities, there is very little velocity difference. At least none that you're going to know about if you got shot with one or if anything else gets shot with one
I reached out to Hornady on their youtube channel and asked them for a statement regarding 7prc velocities. It was as many people suspected, the propellent they used in the intial 7 PRC cartridge release has not been available and the new powder chosen is supposed to replicate accuracy but does it a lower velocity. The post can be found in the Hornady 7prc video chat here: th-cam.com/video/esxcfzIaPNo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pupZtn-iC7uKVUfC
I just finished up some load development for my seven MMPRC. I was totally disappointed in the 2864 FPS from the Hornady factory 175 ELDX. I cannot find RL26 anywhere so I loaded up rotombo, h4831 SC and RL22. I may report back to this post on how it did. 🤞🤞🤞
I’d love to see the effort put into 7mm REM Mag be put into the 7mm PRC in the reloading department. I think it’s clear either round fills 98% of the demanded performance, and that last bit is where reloading and innovation comes in. Now my biggest question, how do monolithic projectiles affect velocities and general performance between the 2 calibers. Hell does it even matter? Probably not, but I’ve got both calibers and it’s bound to be fun testing them both.
Good test. Been getting ready for turkey season so ain't been playing with mine. With N560 11 shots I averaged 3013 with 162eldx out of 18 inch barrel. It was a hot load though. First use with my Once fired Peterson brass gonna back it down about .4 an try again but best accuracy I've found with the savage prc was .010 off lands. Gonna play with the rl23 an seating depth next
With identical bullets,twist rates and throats,the 7mm mag wins!!! It holds 2 grains more of water!!!!! 7mm prc is NOTHING more than Hornady sales hype!!!!!!!!!!!! Talking heads on the internet are comparing rifles,NOT cartridges!!!!!
Curious how many rounds have you put through your 7PRC ? Would you say the barrel is broke in? Great video thank you for sharing your work and experience !
@@ReloadingWeatherbyHave you noticed if it has sped up at all? Would of been nice to shoot half a box when you first got the rifle, then the other half after 200rnds. I have to remember to do that with mine.
@dankcincy It hasn't sped up yet. First time I shot it I loaded 67 gr of H1000 with 180 gr ELD-M and got 2802 FPS. Hornady factory ammo has H1000 and it was 67 gr and I got 2800 FPS with it.
So what we are seing is that the 7mm prc only get the velocities listed if you handload often at or above max loads. Sorry but if i have to buy a rifle then buy all the reloading components just to achieve box velocities im choosing one of the many other 7s that offer more performance. 7STW 7weatherby 28 nosler 7 rem mag 7 ultra mag 7 SAUM.
@ReloadingWeatherby also while I'm thinking of it could you please weigh in on these guys that chop a barrel down to 20in for the sake of "weight" and "maneuverability" just to put a 2lb scope and 6in suppressor on the end. Sorry but giving up balistic performance is never the answer as far as I'm concerned.
@@BrandonKilby-r2zThink of the application. Unless you're out west, you're shooting 2-300yrds across a corn field at most. At those ranges you're not really giving up anything.
As you increase the Twist rate, you also increase the resistance of the bullet travel trough the barrel. The faster the twist, chamber preassure increases. Originally the max weight for 7MM was 175. You can load 195 grns 7MM bullets, but why? A 185 won't kill beter or reach out farther than a 175 and they work fine with the Std 1-10 or 1-9 twist
Hi Again, I remember you "said" to me on a short about the 7mm-08 180grain Staball 6.5 load that the twist rate was 1:9.5" can you confirm that ? as I could hear in the video that it is a 1:9". Thanks. And top job you are doing, that's proper real world reloading tests.
@ReloadingWeatherby thanks for the confirmation gives me some latitude to play with my 7mm08 ""m24" seems that around 2500 - 2700fps it works well. I might try some N550 or Staball6.5 if I can find some. Thank you 👍🏻
What's the odds that you simply have a slow barrel on your PRC? Not fanboying out btw, I have not, nor do I intend to own a 7 prc. I have a 28 Nosler, but I have a couple of 7 mags and 1 of them is consistently 150 fps slower than the other with the same loads even from the same box... just thought it bore mentioning. If you can find a powder and load that works well, accurately and consistently you can dial for velocity, but there is no compensation for a crappy group size! Good content nonetheless, I've enjoyed it.
Latest episode (Ep121)of the Hornady podcast, in the comments, they confirmed that it is indeed a powder issue causing the lower velocities. Something along the lines of the powder the 7 Prc was developed with isn't available to them. Im assuming in the quantities needed for production.
I'm taking away four key points from this video. #1. At least as far as handload ballistic potential is concerned, AND if barrel lengths are equal, the 7MM Rem Mag and 7PRC are very close to equal. #2. Hornady's numbers are WAY off - both factory loads and load data. They need to pack a few more grains of powder in their factory loads. #3. The 7MM/08 has ballistic potential very disproportionate to the cartridge's size AND it is extremely accurate. #4. The 300 WBY will roast most (but not all) other hunting cartridges out there. Because the 7PRC case is non belted and because the brass is plentiful as well as affordable, I would personally pick the 7PRC over the 7MM Rem Mag. I have had better accuracy potential with non belted cases vs belted cases over many decades of handloading, and the case life is also considerably better with non belted cases. But as you regularly point out, belted cases are still very much relevant today.
If you can get your hands on some Norma 217, it's worth a look. I've had excellent results with it my 30-378 Wby, using 168 to 180 grain Nosler bullets.
Well seeing the speeds you are getting tells me the PRC would be essentially the same in the same barrel length, but the PRC out performs the mag at long distance and that is what it was designed for. If you never shoot beyond 400 yards or so there is no advantage to one over the other. Also from what I have seen with others the RL22 is not a great choice for the PRC. Try using RL25 or 26
@@ReloadingWeatherby I’m not close to knowledgeable enough on this, just going by so many of the other tests I have seen, but could it have to do with the fact that for the 7mm the bullet has to be seated further in? This is just a guess. I would be interested to see the groups of both at 200 and 300 yards using the optimum loads for each. I don’t have either caliber, but I find this interesting.
@@ReloadingWeatherby same groups at what range? I’m assuming the twist rate on the prc is greater than the 7 mag and since these longer high bc bullets stabilize better with a tighter twist that at distance it will show and the prc will outperform it. This would be common sense, but I would do the actual testing to confirm. Don’t think I would be interested in a prc unless you reload though.
I'd like see you continue this test. I feel like it's incomplete. Maybe try some lrx or ttsx or corelokt or fusions. Every gun likes corelokts and fusions 😂. Idk I feel like nosler and hornady bullets are being too picky for yall.
@@robpederson281 your not the first person I've heard that from. Guy I know reloads heavily in my area and he loves berger bullets for hunting and has stated that as well. He loves 7mm rem mag btw and elks hunts every year with it.
@robpederson281 surprisingly enough my 6.5x300 weatherby shoots half inch groups with the 156 berger, and I've heard others say similar. The new hybrid style berger's are far less picky.
7PRC all day long.I have both.I have a Browning A Bolt White Gold Medallion.Its a Beautiful Stainless Rifle and it shoots good.But my 7PRC shoots better.
I wouldn't down play twist rate. It seems it's all good till it's not. Us AR guys know this well. After the ban expired in 04 every AR15 was a 1-9 and couldn't shoot the heavier more accurate rounds the 1-7 could without key holing. At see level it matters more.
Two things: you and a lot of others have seen way below advertised 7 PRC velocity. Big fan of the PRC regardless, but they need to adjust advertised velocities to match reality. 2: one cool thing that I think is attributable to the 7 PRC, is that manufacturers are going to trend towards correct twist rates in the 7 Rem Mag from now on. Definitely takes it to a new level! I’m getting better velocities from my .280 AI than you (and others) are getting from the PRC. As far as accuracy, I blame your rifle. Haha.
Why be a fan of a cartridge that doesn’t do anything your 280 AI can do. I don’t get how people support something that doesn’t accomplish anything. That said even if we apply a range of 600 yards and in I’m still using my 30-06 or 7 mag
@@SpudOutdoors as a generality, modern cartridge design rifles just plain shoot a little better. Kind of like .308 vs 6.5 CM. CM just shoots better across a wider sample of rifles. Sharp shoulder, minimal body taper, correct head height, vertex burn point inside the neck, shorter powder columns, shallow rifling leade angles…these are all good things in case design to write into a SAAMI spec when you submit it. If you’re not a reloader, the .280 AI isn’t really viable. A modern designed 7mm with plenty of factory ammo support is long overdue. Powder capacity at the 68-ish grain mark is a good, balanced spot to be with a modern designed case. There is no magic here and no advantage to my Ackley or the Rem Mag (other than a little speed in some instances) over the corrected case design. When my .280 barrel burns out (I’m at 800-ish rounds in the last 18 months of owning it.) I’ll be getting another one so I don’t have to change bolt faces. The 7 PRC would be my pick otherwise. The great thing is we can all just shoot what we want, and it mostly doesn’t matter because almost none of us shoot enough to see a performance difference in the field.
Accumark, calli built before they moved to Wyoming, half inch groups with the 110 accubond, and half inch groups with the 85gr nos ballistic tips, tried the 100gr ttsx but there a shit bullet in my experience, and tried the 115gr ballistic tip and couldn’t get it too shoot with multiple different powders, for all round general hunting you can’t go past the accubond in that cartridge, shot 100s of deer and never had any type of failure 👍🏼
I think shooting and calibres is personal chose I do not think there is any difference between these 2 I own a 7mm Rem Mag and it is OK for what I use it for
I'm sure Hornady has all the state of the art testing equipment, so why do they lie about velocities. I guess they assume most people buying them will shoot factory ammo and never test for velocity. SAMMI already gave them a leg up by giving them an extra 5kpsi. Either way, the 7prc has to be better than this in most rifles, surely. Id be curious to know how the same Hornady factory load campares with both rifles. Maybe you've already tried that and I missed it.
Rumor is they loaded and tested the ammo with RL-26. Apparently they can't get it anymore so they are using Staball HD and H1000 for the factory ammo... which will not get them that 3000 FPS. They need to update their ammo velocity.
@@ReloadingWeatherby I highly doubt they are using StaBALL HD, as they have zero load data for that powder. What I mean is, they have no load data in their reloading handbook and their reloading app. I don't think they have really tested that powder much at all. I think they mentioned on a podcast they tested it for temperature stability and found it was really good, but other than that I can't find any information about them using it. I think that's just a rumor. That leaves H1000, which their reloading app (the subscription version) gives a max load of 67.5gr of H100 and a speed of about 2900 fps. That lines up more closely with real world test results (they probably load a little short of max). (Edit edit: I guess I should wait to comment until after the video, but looks like I was correct in my guess - the Hornady 180gr ELD-M factory is probably loaded with H1000) Interestingly enough, we were just out shooting side by side with a 7mm RM and the 7mm PRC yesterday, and we were seeing over-pressure signs (sticky bolt lift, extractor smearing) with the factory Hornady 180gr ELD-M Box ammo out of a Christensen Arms Modern Carbon. We have tested that for velocity (not yesterday, but a couple weeks ago) and got about 2900 over 5 shots with it out of a 24inch barrel (not the Christensen arms). So take that for what its worth. Edit: And the 7mm RM shot consistently good, about 1 moa (I'm not that great of a shot). The one 7mm PRC shot better (homebrew, probably about .8 moa), and the Christensen arms shot terrible (2-3 moa, woof).
@nathanbailey9153 I have pulled 7mm PRC factory ammo in two different ammo boxes and it was Staball HD. I'm not the only TH-camr that has done this and found Staball HD.
So it looks like hornady is off by their claimed velocity for factory loads, in a 24 inch barrel, by 175 fps, And off by 125 fps with maxed out hand loads... It also looks like the rem mag beats it by 110 fps using the same max loads and pushing the same bullet. Kinda of 180 degrees opposite of what hornady claimed isnt it?. They claim to have the rem mag beat by 100 fps, but the reality is the rem mag beats the PRC by 110 fps. How does hornady get away with these false claims on velocity? And why hasn't anyone except you called them to account for it? 🤔
7rem, king of the 7s since 1962 the prc will never knock it off it’s perch, just like the 300prc will never knock the 300 win off, the 7rem has never needed anything more than a 9.5 twist, and has never had any trouble killing animals or hitting targets, everyone these days believes the hype of fast twist and high bc. For what?? There’s not a person in any of these comments sections that can ethically take an animal as far as the 7rem with its standard 9.5 twist and a 162gr will kill it at.
7RemMag was only 4.3% of all rifles sold last year. Made #6 of the top 7. However, 7PRC was still very new. High BC bullets are the trend because people are in the 21st Century. They allow heavy for caliber, and they handle wind better. For the shooter who thinks 300yds is a long shot, it’s not enough difference to make a difference except for the rare day with a strong wind. The young guy in the market for a 7mm will probably go with a 7PRC over the 7RemMag. 28 Nosler was the one 7RemMag could have been worried about, but recoil is fairly brutal and short barrel life has guys selling them or hardly shooting them. 7PRC is not going away. Dethrone the 7RemMag? Probably not; maybe. Like many said, if manufacturers barrel with a faster twist rate, it can compete better or existing rifles can be rebarreled. Long range hunting IS hunting, and 600yds is nothing IF you have the right setup and training. 15+yrs ago basically nobody had the rifle, scope, or training. This stuff about a REAL HUNTER closes the distance and shoots inside 300yds is all BS. Nothing screams “I cannot shoot” like that comment. The right bullet, with the right impact velocity and energy, from an accurate rifle, with a trained and practiced rifleman is just fine at the targeted animal at distance. Now at 1000yds there are damn few rifles and rifleman who can make that shot. Most hunters are avg guys we know. They don’t shoot year round. They take their rifle out every fall. This year they didn’t check their zero “because it was good last year when I checked it”, and they just go out hunting. If they never shoot past 250yds because that’s their comfort range…..I’m fine with that. However, I will shoot 700yds without batting an eye because 800yds is approaching unacceptable velocity and energy with my rifle. BTW….I like 7mmRemMag, but I don’t own one. Should I buy another rifle I don’t need it will be 7PRC. Happy Easter
@@chrisgunsandguitars1403 not sure who your talking to mate but I certainly didn’t mention anything about 300yds !! Shit I’ve shot deer further than that with a 204 ruger haha, I love all aspects of hunting and certainly engage in long range hunting! For me personally long range hunting starts at 500yds things are starting to get serious out there, what I said was people get hyped up by BC and fast twist, my 7rem with its 9.5 twist and 162gr is still doing 2000fps and has 1400ftlb of energy at 1000yds, this is at an elevation of 2900ft please chime in anyone with a 7prc running high bc bullets and fast twist too how this compares to the old 7rem, not being a smart ass just simply stating my results and am curious too how that matches the prc in real world data, I have no issues with the 7prc if it is anything like the 6.5prc and 300prc that I have had experience with I’m sure they will be good things, but back to the subject, Even your lower BC standard accubond will work at long range I’ve had 1 shot instant kill with my 257 weatherby at 649yds with a 110gr and BC of only 418. And 1 shot DRT with my 300 weatherby at 831yds with the 180gr and a BC of only 550, crunch some real world numbers with drop and drift and if you have any real experience you will certainly realise that velocity trumps BC out to way further distance than most people have any right shooting at game. Happy Easter
7prc is just a lie. Nothing than marketing with non sence from Hornady. Like each caliber they introduce, atleast 1x per year. I just ordered Bergara in 7 rem mag, rather than in 7prc
Is it a contest to just throw a load together for each and talk about precision. You act like that’s the best they could do? There are just so many things I don’t like about your “comparisons. I’m not ever sure what you’re trying to prove? Respectfully. Then suddenly we are looking at. 300 Wby. Very random. The ultimate showdown was what we were promised. Not sure we got that.
1:8 Rem Mag...Still not worth replacing my Prc. The Prc does everything I need it to do. No need replacing it with some fancy new "Fast Twist" Rem Mag. Thats about as close to apples to apples as youre going to get.
How about a real word SAAMI spec vs SAAMI spec comparison? No custom anything. Truth is that most folks are rocking a SAAMI spec Rem Mag using off the shelf ammo. Comparison is this... Typical Rem Mag hunting load vs Typical PRC hunting load. That's real world.
I think you have an H1000 problem, not a bullet problem. I don't know what the alternatives are, but the 180 is a really forgiving bullet, you shouldn't be getting those results. Great speed, maybe too much MV. I dunno. Interesting though.
@@ReloadingWeatherby Fair enough. If it was 1, move, then 2+3 I'd say stock like Savages but I can't make heads or tails of that rifle. The PRC is doing exactly what I thought it would though, too bad you haven't been able to show its high points yet.
Seems kinda bias off the bat claiming everyone online is calling it the new king over the 7rm. Like every new hornady cartridge the online community seems split down the middle. They are slightly different and depending on what your doing with it most people wouldn't notice a difference. If you dont own a 7mm i would lean towards the 7prc just because of what i have seen from the 6.5prc and 300prc vs something like 308 and 300wm. The old school rounds i had to reload for to get them affordable and accurate. With my creedmoors and prcs im getting sub 1/2 moa from cheap factory ammo. And i think the average shooter wants exactly that. No one wants to buy a gun and spend 100s of dollars on 10 different factory loads just to find that if they want a 1 moa load they have to buy a 60+ dollar box of ammo. Handloading and knowing a gunsmith solves everything and everyone can benefit from rolling their own... but i think the majority of weekend hunters or plinkers dont care to go down that rabbit hole.
You obviously haven't seen all the comments from fanboys anointing the 7mm PRC as the king of all cartridges. I get them on my channel almost on a daily basis.
The 7mm rem mag is king, the 7mm PRC is all bs from hornady. Just like the 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC, all hype from hornady. The 7mm rem mag can do it all and ammo is found everywhere, unlike the 7mm PRC.
My Bergara 6.5 PRC shoots harder than a 270 win if you consider it is a 6.7mm and the 270 is a 6.8mm. So a 130 grain factory terminal ascent in my gun is running 3100 fps. And you say thats all hype?
Every moa you’re off translates to worse accuracy down range . We should strive to have the greatest accuracy possible ESPECIALLY shooting at living creatures . If my rifles are shotting moa or better , they don’t shoot at living game
@@Paul-q3m7k good for u. I’m telling u it’s not needed to hit the kill zone of deer or elk lungs are a big area the heart is also big the real question is why shoot things so far away that you must worry about moa
@@dankcincy yep I agree an elk kill zone is big a deer is decent sized on a good buck lung hit or heart hit there gonna die at 5 hundo it’ll be lungs surely and that’s a long ways for killing even tho I know it’s done
@TL12352 Ever heard of Gun Werks? Guess what cartridge they favor... 7 mag with a fast twist. Browning wanted in on what Gun Werks was doing. But sure... we can credit Hornady with that one lol
@@TL12352 With that logic... Hornady has been around for 75 years. Why did it take them 73 years to come up with a cartridge that almost matches a 7 mag that is 62 years old?
Hard to follow this one. No velocities with the 180gr ELDM to compare . No group size recorded with the Accubond loads. Throw in some 7mm-08 and Weatherby talk for good measure.
@ReloadingWeatherby I'd like to have some definitive data surrounding the Hornady factory loads, particularly the ELDX . Did they make a powder change as some have suggested due to availability and what's the correlation to velocity and pressure? Federal also loads how are their velocities?
@ReloadingWeatherby appreciate that...I saw your first impression video but it was posted just 4 weeks ago. I believe any "alledged" powder change or quality issues had already happened. Other's with prior lots of factory ammo were realizing much higher velocities closer to posted box. Like your channel. Have a Vanguard First Lite chambered in 30-06 , and although I'm a 7 RM/PRC owner I'd gladly sign on to save 6.8 Western .
I’d love to see the effort put into 7mm REM Mag be put into the 7mm PRC in the reloading department. I think it’s clear either round fills 98% of the demanded performance, and that last bit is where reloading and innovation comes in. Now my biggest question, how do monolithic projectiles affect velocities and general performance between the 2 calibers. Hell does it even matter? Probably not, but I’ve got both calibers and it’s bound to be fun testing them both.
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That tunnel sounds so cool !!
It was fun
Great content. You do a good job with your channel.
As I understand it, the point of the 7PRC is not necessarily to match or beat the velocity of the 7 Rem Mag. As I understand it, the purpose is to be able to seat long, heavy for caliber projectiles out further so as not to intrude into the powder capacity.
Within standard hunting ranges of up to 400 yards, I see no advantage of the PRC over the Rem Mag. Where the PRC should come into its own is for longer shots using high BC projectiles. Also, the PRC is held to match grade tolerances.
I don’t have either. I have a 7mm-08. But, as a Kentucky whitetail hunter, the longest shot I have at any of my current hunt places is about 250 yards. So the 7mm-08 suits me just fine.
You can seat long with the rem mag lol especially if you got a custom rifle or even a browning on some guns are made long. The tolerance is whatever you make it I don’t understand that statement
I agree with all your points but if the prc wasn't supposed to compete with the rem mag why do hornady keep overstating the prc's performance. In my mind hornady are pushing the prc to try to take market share away from the rem mag and it simply can't compete with it
@@craigmandall9420 Hornady developed the cartridge. It does what it was made to do, and they are great at marketing. So, you are right, but then again, the 7mm PRC is a great cartridge for what it was made to do. It is silly to have to re-barrel or get a custom rifle just to match or do better than an off the shelf rifle that does the job. Hornady shot themselves in the foot when they changed powder and lowered the velocity of their loads. They should have known better. But the cartridge is designed well. Very little if any stretch in the case when resized. And one can get book velocities in a good rifle using the right powder.
Well said. Shoot what works for you and don't try to compare calibers or cartridges without stating it's intended purpose! I wish more people would be specific. Are you claiming cartridge x is better than y for benchrest? Elr? Prs? Hunting? Plinking? Fitting multiple roles? Mil/le usage? That's a real debate. Just arbitrarily claiming one is superior just comes off as well I drive a Ford and daddy drove a Ford, never drove anything else but I'm 100% sure ford is the best truck you can get. Lol
You Are Exactly Right.
You know what I’m about to say 😮
Compare the
7 Rem Mag
7PRC
And the 6.8 Western
Same projectiles 165g or 175g
You know I’m a great fan of my 6.8 Western & we know it needs all the support it can get from gun & ammo manufacturers 🇦🇺👍
REM mag all day
The 6.8 Western is just barely better than the 6.5 PRC. I own both
Don't even want nothing new Cuz I know my 7 remmy and I don't mind telling you so!
Rem arms now chamber the 7mm rem mag in 1in 8 twist and comes with 26 in barrel..I bought a new Rem arm 700 .243 it has a 1 in 8 twist also..twist rates are now stamped on the barrels of new Rem arms 700s.
I did as well recently purchased a 243 1:8 I’ll look out for a new 7 too which I think is better than the prc
Thanks for the info Aaron! I have both calibers, only in a 1/10 in my .243 and 1/9 twist in my 7mm Rem mag. A 1/8 would be nice to shoot heavier projectiles 👊😎🇺🇸
You're welcome
I seen comments on a post somewhere that hornady initially loaded 7prc with reloader 26 but had to switch to staball due to powder shortages. I've also seen people claim that the initial batch of factory ammo was a good bit faster..much controversy around the 7prc lol I have a rem 700 in 7prc I figure since it's made such a splash ..sooner or later someone will get their factory ammo right.
@@aaroncrawford2457not to mention most of the people getting bad results with 7PRC are using entry level rifles.
Thats crazy velocity from the 7mm08
It is loaded over book max
@@ReloadingWeatherbywhat length barrel did you use for the 7mm 08. I’m currently using a 22 inch barrel with a 1:9.5 twist
@@Liamisdead99 22 inch barrel
Ran into a “ballistics bro” at the range today wielding a 20” shorty PRC. He scoffed at my old 7RM. I’m guessing he didn’t realize his boxed ammo running 2750 can’t catch a 180 grainer cookin’ at 3070 😂 I just have to smile and shake my head…
I bet you are both happy. Speed isn't everything. Maybe he loves his rifle for shorter than long range suppressor hunting. That seems to be the thing. I myself want the barrel length that gives the best performance. Most rifle makers reduce the barrel length an inch or two from what is really where the rifle should be to get that. 308's should even have 24-inch barrels instead of 22 inches and less. Magnums should have a minimum of 26-inch barrels. You get less performance with a lot of muzzle flash with shorter barrels. Enjoy you shooting. Be happy!
If the 280AI has load data for the 180g ELD-M with a 1-9 twist barrel, I don't see why a 7-08 wouldn't stabilize the same bullet.
Austin, Happy Easter. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Happy Easter!
Just think how many times it took to get the lightbulb right. We are always learning.
Thanks for taking the time for the videos Relaoding Weatherby. The big take away from them is how anemic the Hornady factory ammo in 7prc is. That and you roll the dice buying a moss berg rifle. The 7prc cartridge is a good design and in well built rifles does what it was meant to do(throw heavy high bc bullets at moderate velocities). I have been trying to do load development for a Seekins PH2 in 7 mag the last few weeks and it’s crazy slow. 180’s at 2740-2760 fps. 160 class bullets at 2850 fps. Anything faster and the groups go from 1/2” to 1.5”. If you compare that to what my custom 7prc can do with 2” less barrel then it makes the PRC look way more favorable.
I have a load of 73 grains of magpro pushing a 162 gr bullet 3060 fps average at 52 degrees f out of a 26” 7mag.
168 and 175ABLRs shoot great in my Rem 700 7mag . 168s at .020 from the lands and the 175s at .050 from the lands. Are you doing any seating depth testing? I've found that the Berger vld seating depth method works very well. However, I modify it a little for my hunting rifles. I start at .015 or .020 then .050, .070, .090, then .130. This method has never failed me with the ABLR bullets.
I think I like the 7 mag more than ever before. 😂
While the Remmie and the PRC are both great rounds, I think I’ll stick with my 7x57!
The 7x57/275Rby is good enough for elephants and since I don’t think I’ll ever hunt anything bigger than a pachyderm, I’ll just roll with the good old 7x57, lol!
Good video I'm impressed with the 708 with those velocities. What was the length of the barrel thank you?
22 inch barrel
Ive used 7 rem mag on moose i dont need all the hype of 7prc
Once again you have ( proven ) that these new cartridges are not needed ! It is all Hype and about selling new rifles !…… Thanks for all your hard work for us !
Thanks for watching
Well, one thing we have to admit is that it works very well for them.
Rifle and ammo sales skyrocket.
@@wheelchairhillbilly it sure did ! Lots of people fell for the Hype !……..
They work better for reloading and long-range shooting eliminating some of the flaws in existing cartridges like the belted cases that do separate when reloaded a number of times. Nothing wrong with any of the cartridges that have been here for a long time. They are all good. Having said that the new cartridges are totally different cartridges. The 7mm Mag he was shooting had a higher twist rate than the standard 1-10 twist. That is why he could shoot the longer bullets accurately. The new cartridges are shot in rifles that are specifically higher twist for heavier bullets. You can be fine with all the old cartridges, but you do have your head in the sand if you think people don't need newer high-tech bullets. Long range shooting competition people will tell you different. And the test here he even made major disclaimers. You can only do honest comparison of 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm PRC shooting two rifles identical except for the cartridge itself. You would have to shoot the same bullet, same powder as well. The barrel lengths would have to be identical as well as the barrel diameter and style. The 7mm Rem Mag is here to stay. It is readily available and hunting it has taken all of the North American game flawlessly.
@@garrytalley8009 Yea , these new cartridges are target cartridges being sold as hunting cartridges . Belted cartridges aren’t that big of a deal as long as you adjust the resizing die to headspace on the shoulder instead of the belt .
Would be interesting to also compare the 7mm Wby Mag with the Rem Mag and PRC. Ruger Hawkeyes in 7mm rem mag come with a 1 in 8.5 twist. Guess Weatherby should think about doing the same in their mark v.
Weatherby magnums have only two problems. They burn barrels out is number one. The cost of ammunition is the other. Of course, with the price of the ammo it makes it less likely you will shoot it enough to burn the barrel out.
Does 7 prc beat 7 rm velocities when it comes to factory ammunition?
Can you try the 190 gr Hornady A tip for the 7mag? Copper creek cartridge company is loading it and list the bc at over 800 for a 1:9 twist
Thank you! The videos are great!
I bet the 300W punished you for that group. That said, it doesn't look like the up-side of the PRC outweighs the vast more economical choice of the 7mag if one were shooting factory ammo and reloaders are able to get at least as good performance out of the 7mag. I may be off base here, but the chrono doesn't lie.
I think you should try some H4831 , 7mm Rem mag shoots extremely well with it.
His gun hates H4831SC
I absolutely love my 7 mmstw
7 mag all day over PRC. The PRC and 6.5 Creed have only added twist to what we had in '62. Or 130 years ago in the 6.5 case. 22 creed however is a fantastic addition
22 creedmoor is the same story as your other examples. Add a fast twist to a 22-250 and you have a 22 creedmoor.
You are so silly and have no idea what you are talking about. There is a lot of difference as to the style of the case and the ability to burn powder more efficiently and actually easier to load for as well. The 7mm Rem Mag will always be here it is established as a renowned cartridge. The 7mm PRC is a better designed cartridge. If it was not long-range shooters wouldn't be shooting it. It was designed specifically to shoot heavier high BC bullets as was the Creedmoor as well. They are Nitch cartridges designed for precision target shooting but they can be used hunting as well.
@@garrytalley8009 You're not wrong in any of your points, other than to call someone names. However, the difference in the two cartridges is measured in microns and not miles. For most hunters taking shots at reasonable hunting ranges, terminal performance between the two cartridges is essentially identical.
@@philipdamm8850 It isn't even worth talking about actually. I will apologize if I was calling names. I actually like all the cartridges and they all do what they we designed to do. The PRC family is targeted for long range target shooting of larger than caliber bullets with high BC bullets and it has a better case design and does everything it was designed to do. As the 7mm Rem Mag is still a fine hunting cartridge and has lived up to its reputation as a great hunting cartridge and even a sniper round at one time. But honestly the belted case is not needed, and the shorter fatter case make it more forgiving for load development and longer high BC bullets as well as the shoulder angle reduces case stretch immensely. I have had both. Like them both but the newer cartridge is not hype. I had given my son my 7mm Rem Mag because of ammo availability he does not reload. Just recently I gave him my 7mm STW which I reload for and it's his favorite rifle. Since I did that and wanted another higher powered 7mm other than my 7mm-08 I got the 7mm PRC and I do reload for it, and I am not disappointed. It does what it was designed to do. I don't like belted cases. The weak point is at the belt. I had a 30-Super that split cases. So much that I changed the barrel to make the 7mm STW. I just get tired of everyone losing the point and calling a new cartridge hype. The 6.5 Creedmoor is demeaned big time, and that cartridge does what it was designed to do, and it does it well from targets to medium sized game with well-placed shots. Have a great day!
You are wrong plain and simple. Ego attached to cartridges you own is fuckin pathetic.
you dont like it? dont shoot it, but pipe the fuck down.
That prc ain't never gonna be in my inventory because my old 700bdl in 7mm Remington Magnum has never let me down, not once!
Wow that 7mm-08 result was impressive. For a hunting rifle with shots at a max of 300 yards, that’s about perfect up to and including elk.
Test some Federal loaded 7prc or some of the Weatherby loaded 7prc. I bet the velocity is way higher.
Shouldn't be hard to beat the Hornady factory ammo velocity
@@ReloadingWeatherby Right on since they changed the recipe using different powder but left the velocity the same on the box. Vitavouri N560 might be a decent powder to try in the 7mm PRC. I did try some in my rifle with very good velocity. I do need to try and tweak it. I only shot about 10 shots with a load in the Hornady Manual. Debating to just try to tune it with my EC-Tuner Brake or work a load on setting zero and then tune it. But you may not be into another extra equation to deal with like a tuner brake. But they do work.
Did you do a seating depth tuning for the PRC? In your opening comparison it looked like you had the exact same C.O.A.L for the PRC as you did for the Rem Mag. That would make a lot of jump for the PRC and make it less accurate if you just hand load the same C.O.A.L. without testing beyond just velocity comparisons.
Yes I messed with seating depth in the 7mm PRC.
Tunnel range sounds like Star wars.
I have an XBolt 7mm REM Mag with the 1:8 twist. Does everything the PRC could do.
Maybe
Nope. Having that gun and feeling threatened enough to try to shit on prc says a lot about the "man" tho
@@tannervanasten feeling threatened? I definitely am not a PRC hater, (own a 6.5 PRC and 300 PRC). Simple fact, that the fast twist 7 RemMag is just as effective and equivalent. No need for you to be a keyboard warrior
No summary?
So can we all agree that the 7mm prc has been vastly overhyped by hornady and it doesn't come close to their quoted figures
You are wrong. They changed powder because they said they could not get the powder originally loaded anymore. It was getting stated velocity. And Federal gets the stated velocity. It is a target cartridge that can be used hunting as well. It does what it was designed to do.
My original boxes hit 3030fps out of a 24" barrel. Powder change hurt the ballistics
@HazardousRob HAHAHAHA right.
Random, but maybe they just prefer the ELDm bullets. I have several rifles that prefer the eldx over the eldm. Can’t figure out why but I’m not the first person to have this issue as well.
That's nuts, I've only ever seen the opposite. But I believe you.
When is the 7mm Weatherby going to get its due? It's better than both the prc or the rm by a big margin and imagine if the 7mm B had a fast twist.
I love the 7-08 results. I think im going to try them in mine. I'm at 1500 ft elevation, so I'm not sure if they will stabilize, but Im to courious now not to try them.
You should be fine.
150’s are plenty good enough.
Surprisingly, the fact that the 7 mm Remington mag is a belted Magnum makes it more intrinsically accurate than a 7mm PRC. If you don't know that, you're not paying attention to the way belted Magnums function inside of a chamber. Because they had space on the Belt the round is always held in the center of the chamber. Rounds that do not have a belt. Unless they have a uniquely tight chamber, they are going to be setting either at the bottom of the chamber or at one side or the other depending on what type of extractor mechanism they have on that particular firearm you might be using. That does make a difference as for velocities, there is very little velocity difference. At least none that you're going to know about if you got shot with one or if anything else gets shot with one
Righto then, I’m going to belt up my 6mm PPC!
I reached out to Hornady on their youtube channel and asked them for a statement regarding 7prc velocities. It was as many people suspected, the propellent they used in the intial 7 PRC cartridge release has not been available and the new powder chosen is supposed to replicate accuracy but does it a lower velocity. The post can be found in the Hornady 7prc video chat here: th-cam.com/video/esxcfzIaPNo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pupZtn-iC7uKVUfC
Thanks for sharing. Looks like the rumors are true. They can only get velocity with RL-26
love them both, 7mm was my go to rifle now it's 7prc only cause of the bullet coefficients difference and speed....less recoil makes a big difference
Thanks for watching
I would suggest, try Imr 7828 in the seven mag.
I just finished up some load development for my seven MMPRC. I was totally disappointed in the 2864 FPS from the Hornady factory 175 ELDX. I cannot find RL26 anywhere so I loaded up rotombo, h4831 SC and RL22. I may report back to this post on how it did. 🤞🤞🤞
Please do!
Should have the 7mm RUM and the 7mm weatherby mag there as well, kinda have a full line-up of 7mm's
Would have been interesting to see the 7mm Weatherby with the 180 gr. I think it’s a better performer than 7PRC.
For sure
What powder are you running behind those heavy bullets in the 708?
Impressive velocity and nice little group.
6.5 Staball
Good question.
Thanks 4 the video.
Thanks for watching
I’d love to see the effort put into 7mm REM Mag be put into the 7mm PRC in the reloading department. I think it’s clear either round fills 98% of the demanded performance, and that last bit is where reloading and innovation comes in. Now my biggest question, how do monolithic projectiles affect velocities and general performance between the 2 calibers. Hell does it even matter? Probably not, but I’ve got both calibers and it’s bound to be fun testing them both.
Good test. Been getting ready for turkey season so ain't been playing with mine. With N560 11 shots I averaged 3013 with 162eldx out of 18 inch barrel. It was a hot load though. First use with my Once fired Peterson brass gonna back it down about .4 an try again but best accuracy I've found with the savage prc was .010 off lands. Gonna play with the rl23 an seating depth next
With identical bullets,twist rates and throats,the 7mm mag wins!!! It holds 2 grains more of water!!!!! 7mm prc is NOTHING more than Hornady sales hype!!!!!!!!!!!! Talking heads on the internet are comparing rifles,NOT cartridges!!!!!
Thanks for watching
Curious how many rounds have you put through your 7PRC ? Would you say the barrel is broke in? Great video thank you for sharing your work and experience !
About 120 rounds
@@ReloadingWeatherbyid be curious if it speeds up at all soon. My 28 noz did after about that many
@@orr89rocz Hope so... it's been pretty darn slow
@@ReloadingWeatherbyHave you noticed if it has sped up at all? Would of been nice to shoot half a box when you first got the rifle, then the other half after 200rnds. I have to remember to do that with mine.
@dankcincy It hasn't sped up yet. First time I shot it I loaded 67 gr of H1000 with 180 gr ELD-M and got 2802 FPS. Hornady factory ammo has H1000 and it was 67 gr and I got 2800 FPS with it.
So what we are seing is that the 7mm prc only get the velocities listed if you handload often at or above max loads. Sorry but if i have to buy a rifle then buy all the reloading components just to achieve box velocities im choosing one of the many other 7s that offer more performance. 7STW 7weatherby 28 nosler 7 rem mag 7 ultra mag 7 SAUM.
The federal loaded ammunition is way closer to box velocity. The Hornady ammo is junk.
This is what I've found
@ReloadingWeatherby also while I'm thinking of it could you please weigh in on these guys that chop a barrel down to 20in for the sake of "weight" and "maneuverability" just to put a 2lb scope and 6in suppressor on the end. Sorry but giving up balistic performance is never the answer as far as I'm concerned.
@@BrandonKilby-r2zAdvertising works even if not true.
@@BrandonKilby-r2zThink of the application. Unless you're out west, you're shooting 2-300yrds across a corn field at most. At those ranges you're not really giving up anything.
As you increase the Twist rate, you also increase the resistance of the bullet travel trough the barrel. The faster the twist, chamber preassure increases. Originally the max weight for 7MM was 175. You can load 195 grns 7MM bullets, but why? A 185 won't kill beter or reach out farther than a 175 and they work fine with the Std 1-10 or 1-9 twist
I think seating depth testing would do you a solid.
I've been doing it
…and flat base bullets.
Love you videos!! Never been a fan of the 7mm but hey it does work .......sometimes ;)
I prefer 308
I’ve never had a 7mm
But I’m thinking of getting a 7mm08 ?? With a fast twist rate
What twist rates can you get & which gun maker has one ??
I think most 7mm-08 come with 1in9
Hi Again, I remember you "said" to me on a short about the 7mm-08 180grain Staball 6.5 load that the twist rate was 1:9.5" can you confirm that ? as I could hear in the video that it is a 1:9". Thanks. And top job you are doing, that's proper real world reloading tests.
It's a 1in9.5
@ReloadingWeatherby thanks for the confirmation gives me some latitude to play with my 7mm08 ""m24" seems that around 2500 - 2700fps it works well. I might try some N550 or Staball6.5 if I can find some. Thank you 👍🏻
Im pretty sure a whitetail or elk cant tell the difference between the different 7s. Truth be told i think the 7mm08 beat both mags
It did
Yep.
What's the odds that you simply have a slow barrel on your PRC? Not fanboying out btw, I have not, nor do I intend to own a 7 prc. I have a 28 Nosler, but I have a couple of 7 mags and 1 of them is consistently 150 fps slower than the other with the same loads even from the same box... just thought it bore mentioning. If you can find a powder and load that works well, accurately and consistently you can dial for velocity, but there is no compensation for a crappy group size! Good content nonetheless, I've enjoyed it.
Oh I have a slow barrel
Latest episode (Ep121)of the Hornady podcast, in the comments, they confirmed that it is indeed a powder issue causing the lower velocities. Something along the lines of the powder the 7 Prc was developed with isn't available to them. Im assuming in the quantities needed for production.
I made a community post about it
@@ReloadingWeatherbyShould your community posts be showing up on my feed?
@@dankcincy They should...
I'm taking away four key points from this video.
#1. At least as far as handload ballistic potential is concerned, AND if barrel lengths are equal, the 7MM Rem Mag and 7PRC are very close to equal.
#2. Hornady's numbers are WAY off - both factory loads and load data. They need to pack a few more grains of powder in their factory loads.
#3. The 7MM/08 has ballistic potential very disproportionate to the cartridge's size AND it is extremely accurate.
#4. The 300 WBY will roast most (but not all) other hunting cartridges out there.
Because the 7PRC case is non belted and because the brass is plentiful as well as affordable, I would personally pick the 7PRC over the 7MM Rem Mag. I have had better accuracy potential with non belted cases vs belted cases over many decades of handloading, and the case life is also considerably better with non belted cases. But as you regularly point out, belted cases are still very much relevant today.
Those are fair takes
That 168 Nosler AccuBond LR is money in my 28 Nosler bank.
I've been testing these in my dad's 28 Nosler... hasn't liked it so far. Any powders I should try?
Great in the 7 rem mag as well and even in the 280 AI
@@ReloadingWeatherby
In a word, RETUMBO!
If you can get your hands on some Norma 217, it's worth a look. I've had excellent results with it my 30-378 Wby, using 168 to 180 grain Nosler bullets.
175’s in my 9 twist 28 w/ Retumbo
Is that under ground range in Vandalia OH ??
No, I'm in Utah
😃 Yep, The 300 WBY "Smokes" Either 7mm "Magnum"! 🔥😳
Well seeing the speeds you are getting tells me the PRC would be essentially the same in the same barrel length, but the PRC out performs the mag at long distance and that is what it was designed for. If you never shoot beyond 400 yards or so there is no advantage to one over the other. Also from what I have seen with others the RL22 is not a great choice for the PRC. Try using RL25 or 26
How does it outperform it when it's shooting the same bullet at the same velocities?
@@ReloadingWeatherby I’m not close to knowledgeable enough on this, just going by so many of the other tests I have seen, but could it have to do with the fact that for the 7mm the bullet has to be seated further in? This is just a guess. I would be interested to see the groups of both at 200 and 300 yards using the optimum loads for each. I don’t have either caliber, but I find this interesting.
@@shawnengstrom3906 If both rifles shoot the same groups at the same velocity... there will be no difference between a 7mm PRC and a 7mm Rem mag
@@ReloadingWeatherby same groups at what range? I’m assuming the twist rate on the prc is greater than the 7 mag and since these longer high bc bullets stabilize better with a tighter twist that at distance it will show and the prc will outperform it. This would be common sense, but I would do the actual testing to confirm. Don’t think I would be interested in a prc unless you reload though.
@@shawnengstrom3906 Did you not watch the video? Both guns have a 1in8 twist
I'd like see you continue this test. I feel like it's incomplete. Maybe try some lrx or ttsx or corelokt or fusions. Every gun likes corelokts and fusions 😂. Idk I feel like nosler and hornady bullets are being too picky for yall.
Almost all match type bullets like to be at or almost touch in my experience
Bergers seem to like to b in lands slightly
@@robpederson281 your not the first person I've heard that from. Guy I know reloads heavily in my area and he loves berger bullets for hunting and has stated that as well. He loves 7mm rem mag btw and elks hunts every year with it.
@robpederson281 surprisingly enough my 6.5x300 weatherby shoots half inch groups with the 156 berger, and I've heard others say similar.
The new hybrid style berger's are far less picky.
What was the barrel length on that 7mm-08?
22 inch
Use some Accurate Mag Pro with the 180 ELD-M in the 7 RM. That’s what my gun likes
7PRC all day long.I have both.I have a Browning A Bolt White Gold Medallion.Its a Beautiful Stainless Rifle and it shoots good.But my 7PRC shoots better.
I wouldn't down play twist rate. It seems it's all good till it's not. Us AR guys know this well. After the ban expired in 04 every AR15 was a 1-9 and couldn't shoot the heavier more accurate rounds the 1-7 could without key holing. At see level it matters more.
Go look at the Berger website. 195 EOL stabilizes with a 1in9 even at sea level. Hornady had to create a reason for the 7mm PRC
I should clarify... I'm only referring to 1in9 and 7mm
@@ReloadingWeatherby so let's ask some questions rather than assume. Is the 180gr Hornady bullet longer than the 195 grain Berger?
@@kylemartin832 I have done my research... not to be rude. You're the one assuming, not me.
180 ELD-M is 1.535"
195 EOL is 1.648"
@@kylemartin832I have done my research... I don't mean to be rude, but you are the one assuming.
180 ELD-M 1.535"
195 EOL 1.648"
Flyer seems like a heat issue ?
Maybe
Two things: you and a lot of others have seen way below advertised 7 PRC velocity. Big fan of the PRC regardless, but they need to adjust advertised velocities to match reality.
2: one cool thing that I think is attributable to the 7 PRC, is that manufacturers are going to trend towards correct twist rates in the 7 Rem Mag from now on. Definitely takes it to a new level!
I’m getting better velocities from my .280 AI than you (and others) are getting from the PRC.
As far as accuracy, I blame your rifle. Haha.
Why be a fan of a cartridge that doesn’t do anything your 280 AI can do. I don’t get how people support something that doesn’t accomplish anything. That said even if we apply a range of 600 yards and in I’m still using my 30-06 or 7 mag
@@SpudOutdoorsfully agree
@@SpudOutdoors as a generality, modern cartridge design rifles just plain shoot a little better. Kind of like .308 vs 6.5 CM. CM just shoots better across a wider sample of rifles. Sharp shoulder, minimal body taper, correct head height, vertex burn point inside the neck, shorter powder columns, shallow rifling leade angles…these are all good things in case design to write into a SAAMI spec when you submit it.
If you’re not a reloader, the .280 AI isn’t really viable. A modern designed 7mm with plenty of factory ammo support is long overdue.
Powder capacity at the 68-ish grain mark is a good, balanced spot to be with a modern designed case. There is no magic here and no advantage to my Ackley or the Rem Mag (other than a little speed in some instances) over the corrected case design.
When my .280 barrel burns out (I’m at 800-ish rounds in the last 18 months of owning it.) I’ll be getting another one so I don’t have to change bolt faces. The 7 PRC would be my pick otherwise.
The great thing is we can all just shoot what we want, and it mostly doesn’t matter because almost none of us shoot enough to see a performance difference in the field.
Accumark, calli built before they moved to Wyoming, half inch groups with the 110 accubond, and half inch groups with the 85gr nos ballistic tips, tried the 100gr ttsx but there a shit bullet in my experience, and tried the 115gr ballistic tip and couldn’t get it too shoot with multiple different powders, for all round general hunting you can’t go past the accubond in that cartridge, shot 100s of deer and never had any type of failure 👍🏼
I'm also getting half MOA with my 257 Weatherby with the 110 Accubond.
@@ReloadingWeatherby yeah I did see that 👍🏼 nice work on that load, are you going to do any hunting with it?
@@kingy300wby Deer hunting this year
@@ReloadingWeatherby nice 👍🏼 you will have fun with that
I have both calibers, but my 7prc shoots .25 inch groups and 7mag, 1 inch.
Accuracy comes down to the gun and ammo.
I have a 7mm rem and love it. I have a 7mm 08 as well. Il probably end up with the prc....we shall see haha
Nice
I think shooting and calibres is personal chose I do not think there is any difference between these 2 I own a 7mm Rem Mag and it is OK for what I use it for
Thanks for watching
I'm sure Hornady has all the state of the art testing equipment, so why do they lie about velocities.
I guess they assume most people buying them will shoot factory ammo and never test for velocity.
SAMMI already gave them a leg up by giving them an extra 5kpsi.
Either way, the 7prc has to be better than this in most rifles, surely.
Id be curious to know how the same Hornady factory load campares with both rifles.
Maybe you've already tried that and I missed it.
Rumor is they loaded and tested the ammo with RL-26. Apparently they can't get it anymore so they are using Staball HD and H1000 for the factory ammo... which will not get them that 3000 FPS. They need to update their ammo velocity.
@@ReloadingWeatherby I highly doubt they are using StaBALL HD, as they have zero load data for that powder. What I mean is, they have no load data in their reloading handbook and their reloading app. I don't think they have really tested that powder much at all. I think they mentioned on a podcast they tested it for temperature stability and found it was really good, but other than that I can't find any information about them using it. I think that's just a rumor.
That leaves H1000, which their reloading app (the subscription version) gives a max load of 67.5gr of H100 and a speed of about 2900 fps. That lines up more closely with real world test results (they probably load a little short of max). (Edit edit: I guess I should wait to comment until after the video, but looks like I was correct in my guess - the Hornady 180gr ELD-M factory is probably loaded with H1000)
Interestingly enough, we were just out shooting side by side with a 7mm RM and the 7mm PRC yesterday, and we were seeing over-pressure signs (sticky bolt lift, extractor smearing) with the factory Hornady 180gr ELD-M Box ammo out of a Christensen Arms Modern Carbon. We have tested that for velocity (not yesterday, but a couple weeks ago) and got about 2900 over 5 shots with it out of a 24inch barrel (not the Christensen arms). So take that for what its worth.
Edit: And the 7mm RM shot consistently good, about 1 moa (I'm not that great of a shot). The one 7mm PRC shot better (homebrew, probably about .8 moa), and the Christensen arms shot terrible (2-3 moa, woof).
@nathanbailey9153 I have pulled 7mm PRC factory ammo in two different ammo boxes and it was Staball HD. I'm not the only TH-camr that has done this and found Staball HD.
@@ReloadingWeatherby Interesting. It's strange that they don't have any reloading data for StaBALL HD.
So it looks like hornady is off by their claimed velocity for factory loads, in a 24 inch barrel, by 175 fps, And off by 125 fps with maxed out hand loads... It also looks like the rem mag beats it by 110 fps using the same max loads and pushing the same bullet. Kinda of 180 degrees opposite of what hornady claimed isnt it?. They claim to have the rem mag beat by 100 fps, but the reality is the rem mag beats the PRC by 110 fps. How does hornady get away with these false claims on velocity? And why hasn't anyone except you called them to account for it? 🤔
My rifle seems to be slower than others... but yes the claimed velocities are still way off
7rem, king of the 7s since 1962 the prc will never knock it off it’s perch, just like the 300prc will never knock the 300 win off, the 7rem has never needed anything more than a 9.5 twist, and has never had any trouble killing animals or hitting targets, everyone these days believes the hype of fast twist and high bc. For what?? There’s not a person in any of these comments sections that can ethically take an animal as far as the 7rem with its standard 9.5 twist and a 162gr will kill it at.
Thanks for watching!
I prefer 300 RUM to 300 win mag and 300 prc
@@jtigertic 300 rum is a beast a mate of mine uses one for his stag Rifle, it’s a 700 sendero. I simply meant for popularity and availability 👍🏼
7RemMag was only 4.3% of all rifles sold last year. Made #6 of the top 7. However, 7PRC was still very new. High BC bullets are the trend because people are in the 21st Century. They allow heavy for caliber, and they handle wind better. For the shooter who thinks 300yds is a long shot, it’s not enough difference to make a difference except for the rare day with a strong wind. The young guy in the market for a 7mm will probably go with a 7PRC over the 7RemMag. 28 Nosler was the one 7RemMag could have been worried about, but recoil is fairly brutal and short barrel life has guys selling them or hardly shooting them. 7PRC is not going away. Dethrone the 7RemMag? Probably not; maybe. Like many said, if manufacturers barrel with a faster twist rate, it can compete better or existing rifles can be rebarreled. Long range hunting IS hunting, and 600yds is nothing IF you have the right setup and training. 15+yrs ago basically nobody had the rifle, scope, or training. This stuff about a REAL HUNTER closes the distance and shoots inside 300yds is all BS. Nothing screams “I cannot shoot” like that comment. The right bullet, with the right impact velocity and energy, from an accurate rifle, with a trained and practiced rifleman is just fine at the targeted animal at distance. Now at 1000yds there are damn few rifles and rifleman who can make that shot. Most hunters are avg guys we know. They don’t shoot year round. They take their rifle out every fall. This year they didn’t check their zero “because it was good last year when I checked it”, and they just go out hunting. If they never shoot past 250yds because that’s their comfort range…..I’m fine with that. However, I will shoot 700yds without batting an eye because 800yds is approaching unacceptable velocity and energy with my rifle. BTW….I like 7mmRemMag, but I don’t own one. Should I buy another rifle I don’t need it will be 7PRC. Happy Easter
@@chrisgunsandguitars1403 not sure who your talking to mate but I certainly didn’t mention anything about 300yds !! Shit I’ve shot deer further than that with a 204 ruger haha, I love all aspects of hunting and certainly engage in long range hunting! For me personally long range hunting starts at 500yds things are starting to get serious out there, what I said was people get hyped up by BC and fast twist, my 7rem with its 9.5 twist and 162gr is still doing 2000fps and has 1400ftlb of energy at 1000yds, this is at an elevation of 2900ft please chime in anyone with a 7prc running high bc bullets and fast twist too how this compares to the old 7rem, not being a smart ass just simply stating my results and am curious too how that matches the prc in real world data, I have no issues with the 7prc if it is anything like the 6.5prc and 300prc that I have had experience with I’m sure they will be good things, but back to the subject,
Even your lower BC standard accubond will work at long range I’ve had 1 shot instant kill with my 257 weatherby at 649yds with a 110gr and BC of only 418. And 1 shot DRT with my 300 weatherby at 831yds with the 180gr and a BC of only 550, crunch some real world numbers with drop and drift and if you have any real experience you will certainly realise that velocity trumps BC out to way further distance than most people have any right shooting at game. Happy Easter
7prc is just a lie. Nothing than marketing with non sence from Hornady. Like each caliber they introduce, atleast 1x per year. I just ordered Bergara in 7 rem mag, rather than in 7prc
How is it a lie?
Must suck to have a room temp IQ lol
Tikka ,t3x super lite 65.4 gr rl22 and 150 gr Barnes bullet on 7 rey mag at 3018. The prc is over hyped.
Cant go wrong with the 7mm rem mag unless you shooting way to close to a target its over powerful but never to weak
Thanks for watching!
Very difficult to follow along! Not enough information here, imagine things there, etc.
So what was the result? Did the 7 PRC beat the 7 RM?
Nothing went as planned for me that day. And sadly both guns shot terribly.
Is it a contest to just throw a load together for each and talk about precision. You act like that’s the best they could do? There are just so many things I don’t like about your “comparisons. I’m not ever sure what you’re trying to prove? Respectfully. Then suddenly we are looking at. 300 Wby. Very random. The ultimate showdown was what we were promised. Not sure we got that.
This video was a mess... a lot of things didn't go as planned
1:8 Rem Mag...Still not worth replacing my Prc. The Prc does everything I need it to do. No need replacing it with some fancy new "Fast Twist" Rem Mag.
Thats about as close to apples to apples as youre going to get.
Try flat base 140’s and watch your groups shrink.
Very possible
How about a real word SAAMI spec vs SAAMI spec comparison?
No custom anything.
Truth is that most folks are rocking a SAAMI spec Rem Mag using off the shelf ammo.
Comparison is this...
Typical Rem Mag hunting load vs Typical PRC hunting load.
That's real world.
I'll try to do it
@@ReloadingWeatherbyI keep suggesting all these side quests, I should probably be helping with some of the ammo costs huh?
I think you have an H1000 problem, not a bullet problem. I don't know what the alternatives are, but the 180 is a really forgiving bullet, you shouldn't be getting those results. Great speed, maybe too much MV. I dunno. Interesting though.
Nah my gun is the issue
@@ReloadingWeatherby Fair enough. If it was 1, move, then 2+3 I'd say stock like Savages but I can't make heads or tails of that rifle. The PRC is doing exactly what I thought it would though, too bad you haven't been able to show its high points yet.
Seems kinda bias off the bat claiming everyone online is calling it the new king over the 7rm. Like every new hornady cartridge the online community seems split down the middle. They are slightly different and depending on what your doing with it most people wouldn't notice a difference. If you dont own a 7mm i would lean towards the 7prc just because of what i have seen from the 6.5prc and 300prc vs something like 308 and 300wm. The old school rounds i had to reload for to get them affordable and accurate. With my creedmoors and prcs im getting sub 1/2 moa from cheap factory ammo. And i think the average shooter wants exactly that. No one wants to buy a gun and spend 100s of dollars on 10 different factory loads just to find that if they want a 1 moa load they have to buy a 60+ dollar box of ammo. Handloading and knowing a gunsmith solves everything and everyone can benefit from rolling their own... but i think the majority of weekend hunters or plinkers dont care to go down that rabbit hole.
You obviously haven't seen all the comments from fanboys anointing the 7mm PRC as the king of all cartridges. I get them on my channel almost on a daily basis.
Say the line PRC fanboys... 😂
Good luck surviving the comments on this one Reloading Weatherby.
The 7mm rem mag is king, the 7mm PRC is all bs from hornady. Just like the 6.5 CM and 6.5 PRC, all hype from hornady. The 7mm rem mag can do it all and ammo is found everywhere, unlike the 7mm PRC.
My Bergara 6.5 PRC shoots harder than a 270 win if you consider it is a 6.7mm and the 270 is a 6.8mm. So a 130 grain factory terminal ascent in my gun is running 3100 fps. And you say thats all hype?
Im having a better luck with retumbo,, for velocity
Nice
Hornady lies on the fps 7mm PRC advertisement on their box ammo. This should continue to be called out. Marketing BS all day long.
I've called them out from the beginning.
No doubt this is the worse comparison video of these two cartridges on you tube. What were you thinking?
Sometimes the guns don't shoot well. And while this video was a mess... it was not the worst video
I’d still
Hunt with it if that’s at a hundred yards it will still work it doesn’t need to be moa or sub moa to hunt with learn the rifle
My 1000 yard range video proved you don't need sub MOA to hit targets at long distance. I still want to try to get this sub MOA
Every moa you’re off translates to worse accuracy down range . We should strive to have the greatest accuracy possible ESPECIALLY shooting at living creatures . If my rifles are shotting moa or better , they don’t shoot at living game
@@Paul-q3m7k good for u. I’m telling u it’s not needed to hit the kill zone of deer or elk lungs are a big area the heart is also big the real question is why shoot things so far away that you must worry about moa
With a 2 moa gun at 500yrds, you're still hitting a pie plate.
@@dankcincy yep I agree an elk kill zone is big a deer is decent sized on a good buck lung hit or heart hit there gonna die at 5 hundo it’ll be lungs surely and that’s a long ways for killing even tho I know it’s done
three shots are a waste of time. Try ten, see if you have an opinion, then another ten, etc.
Maybe your gun is no good
Very likely
Funny how factory 7 mags are now coming out with faster twist rates, y’all can thank hornady and their suck ass prcs for that.
Browning X-Bolt in 7 mag has had a 1in8 twist since 2018... 4 years before the 7mm PRC was even announced.
@@ReloadingWeatherbysince 2018, and the 7 rem mag has been around for over 60 years, my bad they are Johnny on the spot with those fast twists
@TL12352 Ever heard of Gun Werks? Guess what cartridge they favor... 7 mag with a fast twist. Browning wanted in on what Gun Werks was doing. But sure... we can credit Hornady with that one lol
@@ReloadingWeatherby gunwerks has been around since 2006, like I said Johnny on the spot for a 60 year old cartridge
@@TL12352 With that logic... Hornady has been around for 75 years. Why did it take them 73 years to come up with a cartridge that almost matches a 7 mag that is 62 years old?
Hard to follow this one. No velocities with the 180gr ELDM to compare . No group size recorded with the Accubond loads. Throw in some 7mm-08 and Weatherby talk for good measure.
The video was a mess... Nothing went as planned, both guns shot bad and I decided to turn lemons into lemonade with the 7mm-08 and 300 WBY.
@ReloadingWeatherby I'd like to have some definitive data surrounding the Hornady factory loads, particularly the ELDX . Did they make a powder change as some have suggested due to availability and what's the correlation to velocity and pressure? Federal also loads how are their velocities?
@@supersnake69 I'll see what I can do. My first 7mm PRC range video I tested the 175 ELD-X factory ammo and 160 CX factory ammo
@ReloadingWeatherby appreciate that...I saw your first impression video but it was posted just 4 weeks ago. I believe any "alledged" powder change or quality issues had already happened. Other's with prior lots of factory ammo were realizing much higher velocities closer to posted box. Like your channel. Have a Vanguard First Lite chambered in 30-06 , and although I'm a 7 RM/PRC owner I'd gladly sign on to save 6.8 Western .
I’d love to see the effort put into 7mm REM Mag be put into the 7mm PRC in the reloading department. I think it’s clear either round fills 98% of the demanded performance, and that last bit is where reloading and innovation comes in. Now my biggest question, how do monolithic projectiles affect velocities and general performance between the 2 calibers. Hell does it even matter? Probably not, but I’ve got both calibers and it’s bound to be fun testing them both.