I went from 270 to the 7mm Remington mag. Both great cartridges but simplified my life with the 30-06. Plentiful brass, common and cheap enough to hand load to give much trigger time. I'm sentimental and have a strong sense of history. The 30-06 has done it all for well over a century. The cartridge of America in 2 world wars. A benchmark cartridge by which all others are judged. I've owned and fired many rifles in many different cartridges and hand loaded for all of them. I cannot live without the boring, trusty, rusty 30-06. It is just simply so dang good.
@jaybailleaux630 I recommended my buddy start with a 308 instead of a 270, because I had a feeling he might some day step up to a 7mm RM. Going from a 270 to a 7RM just seems too much to me like a small increase of almost exactly the same thing. Which I guess is fine if you sell your 270 or have a giant collection. But the next centerfire he buys will be his second. (He went with the 270)
You can skin this cat several different ways. Usually in favor of your particular bias. If you're going with a 26" barrel on the 7 (not a bad idea) then go 26" with the 06 and see what happens. Truth is, the 06 does pretty good in a 22" barrel. Also, everyone talks about long range like its the norm. Not really. Even though everyone on the interwebs is a gifted long range shooter. Riiiiight. I simply ask myself, what would I hunt with one that I wouldn't with the other. Nothing, pick the one you like and have confidence in.
You make a great point on that barrel length. Great great grandpa’s ‘06 is achieving similar results while using a much shorter length barrel. Something else to consider is that most 7mm Rems are usually better suited to that lighter 162-165 max weight because of the twist rate and the chamber cut for the SAMMI spec. Whereas the ’06 was almost always designed to use those heavier loads and have the longer more aerodynamic projectiles. I’ve said it for years and I’ll say again. Luckily we don’t have to, but if you had to own only one hunting rifle for all your big game needs in North America, the only cartridge you should be looking at is the 30-06. The versatility of the vast range of bullets alone makes it the best caliber in the league, and the case volume is sufficient to do just about anything you could possibly want. Modern hand loaders are easily achieving equal or better than original factory loaded 300WM results.
I dont think everyone is gifted at long range. Its just easier than ever to get into and learn. I shoot to 500 every weekend. Me snd the buddy go to his farm and just shoot. Do it enough and you get decent enough. Plenty of youtube videos on how to get started. Guns are more accurate and better than they have ever been. Scopes can be had cheap. Its a good time to be into long range shooting.
All of these old time cartriges aren't great with factory ammo, but with handloads they really wake up and can be special when compared to the "latest and greatest" of today
True… you can handload to peak performance indeed but… We just harvested a bull moose and a bull elk and my buddy was running factory 175gr federal fusions in his 7RM with 2850fps at the muzzle and I do say I was impressed with the performance. For general purpose moose/elk work inside of 400m those fusions do very well. Where we hunt the vast majority of opportunities are in the 50m to 350m range. Cheers!
@@trevorkolmatycki4042 Yes and this is why we don’t ( NEED ) all these new cartridges because 90% of animals are taken under 300 yds and the new cartridges offer very little or no difference at that range ! Most ( average ) hunters can’t hit a deer or elk in the vitals past 300 yards anyway . It’s all about selling new rifles !……..
Remember that spec pressure for the 30-06 is 58,740 to 60,000. I personally would feel fine exceeding that in a modern bolt action with handloads. The same case is rated to 65,000 in the 280 AI and the rifles are all built on the same actions. All the book data is to at most 60k PSI.
The 270 Win came out in 1925 pushing 65,000 psi. I dont think running an '06 to the same limits will cause any problems. As a matter of fact I'll bet Reloading Weatherby knows a friend who has tested this theory a time or two.
I have been a 7Mag Fan since forever. Altho the 22 Mag was my first "magnum" the 7Mag was my first Big Game Magnum. Its always been "close" to the venerable 30/06. The 7Mag shines as yardage lengthens. Recoil is very close. Bullet weight goes to the '06 Trajectories really are close as the '06 aint as bad as many initially think. But the .284 is ballistically superior so nearly always comes out "better". Bullet dia is something most ways we measure the effectiveness isn't measured but it remains one of the biggest integer's in that scenario. Also most think these magnums can be used at distances far past where they are actually optimal. (I know you know this stuff Austin.) Another great video! 🇺🇸❤️🩹🙏🙏
I have always loved the 7mm Rem Mag, I've owned a couple, A Rem 700 BDL Custom Deluxe and the first Browning model A Bolt with a 26" barrel, the Browning would squeeze every bit of power out of the charge whereas the Remington only had a 24" tube, but neither one ever let me down, even with factory loads. About as close to perfection as ya can get IMO.
The original 2 factory loads were a 150gr at 3260 fps and a 175gr at 3020 out of a 26" barrel as per Remington's claims. By the late 1970's these had been down graded due to the use of 24" barrels and because it was being reported that some ballistic labs were reporting occasional weird pressure spikes when testing ammo.
I traded my 7 mm Remington Magnum for a 30-06 and never looked back. The 30-06 cartridge is much more versatile with different bullets and bullet weights available. Also, we really should not be shooting much beyond 400 yards at big game. In field conditions people are just not that accurate to place a killing shot into the vitals of a big game animal constantly past 4 football field lengths. There are no concrete shooting benches in the mountains, the wind is unpredictable ( just ask a mountain certified pilot), and your own physical condition is a big factor. Montana did a study on Wounding Loss in big game season. It was found that for every 100 animals taken off the field, 15 to 30 were lost to wounding. Simply an unacceptable number. Ever wonder where the trophy mule deer went?
Not bucking up at you, but how is the 30-06 "much more versatile?" Both take game from deer to big bears equally well. Who honestly uses a 220 gr bullet anyway? A 200 gr spire point does just as well. A 175 gr has a SD of 310 vs 200 gr in .308 caliber SD of 301. Bc are about the same in those bullets. Loads are within a few grs of each other. So, recoil is comparable. The trajectory goes to the 7mm. I have taken plenty of game, including elk, with both. There is no difference in terminal effect. They are both great catridges, but I fail to see the great difference in versatility that you claim. Not to mention, with monometals, the 7mm probably outshines the 30-06. Could you explain your statement, as I am at a loss to see your claim as true. That is, after shooting both side by side for 40 years. Thanks.
@@jayheslin803 Well if you look at factory loadings, there are many more loads available to 30-06 shooters. Also the weight of (most) factory rifles in 7 mm Rem Mag is heavier, half a pound is significantly heavier unless you are a road hunter. Shorter barrels are more convenient. You can have your 7 mm and I will take my 30-06…… have a safe hunting season!
@@TODinWY Yes, I agree. But walk into any Scheels or Cabelas and go to the scope counter. Almost every scope now makes you a sniper, capable of shooting out to 800 to 1000 yards, or so the public thinks.
@williamfeldner9356 Like I said, I am not bucking up or coming down on you. I am genuinely curious about what game the '06 is better on? I have 7mm mags in 26" and 24", '06s in 24"and 22." Honestly, I would be OK with a 7mm mag in 22". Their loads are within a grain or two. Powder selection weighs heavy in that situation. I agree 400 yards is a solid maximum for shooting at unwounded game. Honestly, I do not think the majority of hunters, especially Eastern hunters, have much business or the skills to consistently take game at beyond 250. Me, 350ish is where I really start soul searching. I have multiple rifles in both the catridges in question. I have shot them side by side for 40 years. I am in my 6th decade. An extra inch or two and the added half pound or less in weight doesn't affect me. No, I do not road hunt or use a wheeler. I reload, as everyone should. If forced to shop for catridges, it is as easy to find one as the other, in comparable bullets. I have never noticed a difference in the terminal effect of one over the other. The truth is I hunt mostly now with a 7mm-08 and a 243. I have killed many elk and a few moose with that little 7mm-08 , and its 20" barrel. With the right bullet, right conditions, and right shot, I would gladly kill elk with my 243. I also bow hunt. As to the statement, another poster made about wounded game and archery. I agree. However, I think that comes about from compound bows and sights, making archers believe in 60-plus yard shots. I shot a 50# bow. Either a recurve or long bow. I shoot instinctively. I have been shooting bows for 50-plus years. I use heavy arrow/broadhead combos. Specifically, heavy, cut on contact, single beveled, 2 bladed broadheads. Shots are kept at less than 35 yards, preferably under 30. I have never lost an animal with a bow. I have lost two with a rifle. The skill set and ability to make a lethal shot trumps all. Not being critical of your choice. I shot an '06 for years. A 7mm mag, likewise. Then I discovered modern bullets and just how effective they are. In my mind, there is no reason to use an '06 nor 7mm mag. Give me a 243, 6.5, or a mild 7mm, and I am good. If I am iffy... I have a couple of 375s and a 458. It's always interesting chatting. Safe hunts. Successful hunts. Cheers!
Another great and honest review of two very fine cartridges. I own a 7mm mag and my load development has been paused by injuries and health issues. 72-yrs old and I did not get the extended warranty. N570, H1000 are two powders I am currently looking at to try. I have RL26 and now new load data for handing is available. I may never get out west for Elk BUT I have access to 25-yd to 700-yd range in SE PA. 600-yds is chip shot for me during my High-power days with the 223 80-gr Sierra. Again, thank you for putting excellent information and data.
I can get a bit over 3000fps with a 165gr hornady interlock in my 24 inch 30-06. In Australia we've only got basic powders available, I find most people I know who shoot 7mm rem mags have stepped up from 308's. Me personally I don't think the rem mag is worth moving up to.
For hunting ranges, theres no need to shoot 175gr bullets out of a 7 mag. You lose the flat trajectory that is the best part of the 7 mag. 150 monos, or 160s cup and core.
@@whiteyfisk9769 I lived in Alaska for 37 years, no matter what you're hunting you're in Grizzly country. So I always used the 175 grainers for everything...
@@johnganshow5536 That definitely changes things. I lived in Alaska for 5 years, i still live in grizz country now. I always carried the 300 win mag with 180gr bullets. A few years here i carried a 270 with 130gr ttsx for deer. But when you have a grizzly at 8 yards, that 180gr hits alot harder than a 130.
I’m a hand loader a gunsmith and I’ve owned 2. 7 rem mags I now own several 30-06s In my opinion it’s a better round if I need more I’ll step up to a 300 or 338
I handload and have for over 47 years also I run at least a 26" barrel on all my rifles with the exception being my little 06 auto for thick brush hunting , h1000 and retumbo are excellent powders also for my 7, 300, 338 winny and 338 lapua
I get more speed out of retumbo, than anything else and better accuracy, but needs bore cleaning more often, if it is used for competition. Slow burning powders leave more carbon in the barrel.
Both of those are very good. I currently have a 30-06. But lately I've been comparing 7 rem mag and 7 PRC. I think I'll stick with 7 rem mag for my next rifle. Thanks for the video, good comparison 👍🏼
The ABLR 175 is the only bullet I shoot in 7mm Rem Mag. I only have a 22" barrel, because I purchased with a thread and use a 6" suppressor, so it ends up being close to 28" as it is. I still get 2878 FPS average and that's plenty for a 600 yard rifle. Where I hunt, I cannot take advantage of this rifle too much, but I do enjoy shooting it. Honestly, most of my deer have been taken with my .45-70 Single, Lever or .45 colt Single or Leverguns. I wish I could get my hands on some RL22 because I can get 2921 fps with that over MagPro, but I haven't been able to find any for years.
Great vid- I would have liked to see the 7RM comparison made with a .280 rem or .280AI. From a hand loading standpoint I like efficiency in burning as little of my precious powder as possible.
I had a Rem 700 LSS in 7mm Rem mag, sighted in with 160gr Nosler partitions. It was under 1" at 100 yards with factory ammo. My cousins that shot it said that they'd trade their '06 for the 7mm. It was just a lower recoiling rifle. I sold it after it went off one day without pulling the trigger. That was before the class action suit against Remington came to. Didn't know at the time that I could have replaced the trigger.
The .308 Norma mag is a European round, with a slightly smaller case than the 300 win mag, but it is just as good. I think the winmag out sells it because it is American and easier to get ammo. Norma has brought out the 300 Norma which has a shorter, but much fatter case and more powder capacity. The 300 Norma is a very modern case, which holds slightly less powder, than the Remington Ultra magnum, however I prefer the Norma. The Norma case requires a wider shell holder, for handloaders. My second favorite is the 300 weatherby, with which I have won a lot of 1000 yard competitions. I also have an Ackley improved 30--06, but had to wait 6 months for dies, so have not shot it yet. The ballistics of the 7mm mags are better than the 30 cals, but are harder on barrels. The non magnum 7mms are much better than the magnums, on barrel wear. The 284 win case, is very popular in Australia.
@johnbodman4504 My good friend has a sporterized Mauser in .308 norma mag. It's old as dirt. He gave $200 for it, came with Nikon scope mounted, and a box of ammo. It's heavy and just plain works. We shot his 7 rem mag right after his norma and noticed the brass was the same height, and I did some research, and some folks say that the 7 rem mag is just a necked down .308 Norma.
I've been listening to/reading a lot of Kevin Robertson lately. He is perhaps one of the foremost experts in the world when it comes to cartridge and bullet selection for hunting (on top of being the author of "The Perfect Shot" and "The Perfect Shot, 2", the definitive manuals on shot placement). He's a trained/educated African animal veterinarian and was a professional hunter for about 30 years throughout southern Africa - primarily Zimbabwe, but also South Africa, Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania, and Namibia. All else being relatively equal, bullets with higher Sectional Density will out-penetrate those with lower SD. There are other factors to consider, of course, but it largely starts there. With that in mind, a 175 gr 7mm bullet will out-penetrate a 30 caliber bullet of 180 gr. But there is a threshold on SD, bullet mass, bullet frontal area, and impact velocity where "enough" is literally enough. With a slight nod to 7mm RM, it is superior, but not enough to make a *practical* difference at ordinary hunting distances on almost any game animal we might want to hunt. My best friend and I recently went on a safari in Limpopo province in South Africa. I used my 9.3x62 and he ended up having to use a "camp rifle" chambered in 30-06 (because UA sucks, we'd done a lot of LD for his 300 WSM that UA "forgot" in the holding area in Newark, along with the rifles of 8 or 10 other hunters on his flight). I brought my 9.3x62 because I knew I was likely to have an opportunity at a cape buffalo, but that 30-06 killed his 2 large animals (blue wildebeest and zebra) every bit as effectively as my 9.3x62. And I don't even have a small doubt that our 280AIs with 175 gr North Forks would have been every bit as effective as the 9.3x62 or the 30-06; especially at "Limpopo distances" of under 150 yards. *********edit************* The caution on 175 NABLR in 7mm - the barrel length doesn't matter if it doesn't have at least a 9 twist. Lots of 7mm barrels (particularly Savage) are cut at a 9.5 twist, and that won't stabilize 175 gr NABLR. Federal's Terminal Ascent line of bullets are the long range version of their wildly popular Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, a bullet line used to great effect on dangerous game in calibers like 375 H&H magnum, 416 Remington Magnum, 458 Win mag, etc. It's a great bullet.
I am a huge fan of Kevin Robertson. His knowledge in hunting, bullet placement and caliber/bullet selection are second to none. And as much as he mentions it in his writings, talk to him in person it’s even more so. Lol but one thing I like to add and recommend is that hunting deer, elk and large bears in North America, is not the same as hunting large plains game in Africa. African large game, (not counting dangerous game) have their vitals located farther forward than ours often requiring shooting through the shoulders, not behind them. And in my experience, and as many others will tell you their game animals are definitely tougher than ours.
@@forward1165 No disagreement on any of that, save for elk and moose and big bears shot with fast moving bullets. a 270 is a decent all around cartridge, but fire a cup-and-core 130 gr on a quartering-to on a big bull elk or moose, things aren't likely to go well. And a 175 gr 7mm or 180 or 200 gr .308 bullet will usually travel farther through the body than a 270 firing a 150 gr A Frame would. Momentum is a thing, too, which Doctari also brings up quite a lot. In any case, back to the topic of this video, very little difference between 7mm RM and 30-06, not enough difference to make a difference except at the extreme edges. One thing not mentioned in this video was how by the mid-70s, 7mm RM had developed quite a reputation as a wounder (and not killer) of elk. Those cup and core 140 and 150 gr 7mm bullets screaming along at 3k+ weren't holding together very well on quartering shots. None of those hunters had gotten the memo on Partitions, even though they'd been around since the late 1940s, and by 1982, we had Swift A Frames as well. I'm not sure how much longer people would have continued using 7mm RM if not for the advent of premium bullets.
Exactly , my local gun shop has bags and bags of 7 REM mag once fired brass and I live in small town , except for the 6.5 crapmore you can’t find any once fired brass for the ( new ) cartridges !…..
I really want to build a long throated chamber and fast twist barrel custom 264 win mag. Its got wonderful BC for below 160grain projectiles and is better than 284 caliber projectiles BC of the same weight. 264 win mag is the best 6.5. I gotta learn how to handload, but it's my current obsession for a hunting rifle build.
could you make a video or short turning 7saum brass into 6.8 western or maybe a full video on fire forming and making brass for more obscure cartridges
I love my 30-06, but I never thought this was really that close really. The 7RM has a better case design, more streamline bullet and more case capacity.
I can't disagree with this hypothesis. A good 7mm Rem. Mag. being fed maximum performance hand loads is a real go getter. A good .30-06 can be maximized to the point of not being a disappointment in a hundred hunting seasons and do it a bit more economically. It's not really a question of which can give you the biggest numbers. It's more of a question as to whether you would ever be disappointed with either shooting at it's best potential in the field. I think both will deliver steaks to the freezer quite well.
I think that is a good theory for me to test. Everyone thinks belted cases don't last as long... Not that I disagree, I'm just curious if it's actually true.
Good video. Can’t go wrong either way. I’d go with a 30-06 in 22 inches. It will still be relatively close to a 7 REM Mag in a 26 inch barrel. 7 mag will definitely be faster. Just the difference between non-magnum and magnum.
Can you show these velocities with safe pressure for the 30-06 on the program you have. I know it’s dependant on internal volume As each company has different internal volumes. Cause 2750 with a 200 outta a 30-06 sounds Ludacris lol
You need to use slower powders for those 200+ gr bullets to achieve 2700+ fps....like rl22, h4831sc,.....I get 2650 from a 225 eldm with rl22...I've even used rl26...this is from a Howa 1500 with a 22" barrel.
@@ReloadingWeatherby what’s that program you use ? I want to get it Cause I might be way under pressure Not sure. Even with 57 grains imr4350 with 180 sst I could barely get 2700. Maybe I have a low pressure barrel. Not sure
The 7mm Remington Magnum shines when you keep your bullet weights down around 140 grains or less. The 06 rocks with 150-168 grain bullets. If you want to shoot super heavy bullets, use a larger bore caliber!
If throated and loaded properly, the 7mm Rem mag will absolutely equal the Weatherby version. I run 3120fps out of a 24" stainless in my old 700 Rem 7mm Rem mag. 3060 is easy with 175 gr partitions.
Your comparison is interesting; and after checking behind you I would draw a different conclusion. You’re probably correct that the best choice for bullets in the .30-06 is a Barnes TTSX; but you could go with a 110 grain. The 120 in the 7mm Rem Mag is right in between. We have a conundrum; and must decide whether to choose speed, sectional density or mass. I would be measuring the case head expansion and pushing the charge on the 30-06 until I hit safe pressure limits. I believe the .30-06 would push the 130 beyond 3,300 fps that Barnes lists. So I would pass on the 7mm Rem Mag and choose .30-06; but if I wanted more I would go with the Weatherby cartridges.
Agree. My 7RM Tikka with their new 1:9 twist barrel gets 3125 with 168 LRX and 73g Ramshot Grand. I actually hit 3176 fps but had too much case head expansion so settled on 73g.
Quick follow up to my comment. One of the benefits of the 7RM was recoil levels about like a 30-06 or only slightly greater but with better ballistics. Once we start loading the 7 rem mag to its full potential and pushing heavier bullets, we lose that benefit because we approach 300 magnum recoil levels, especially in sub 8 pound rifles, I’m not so sure it makes it more effective on game at reasonable hunting distances. Always a trade off.
The 30-06 is great for hand loading and has a huge range of factory offerings. But the main thing is that the 30-06 can be found in every gun/hunting store in the world. While the 7RM is very popular in North America, the 30-06 is that popular around the world! Remember, just because you bought a plane ticket to wherever you wanted to hunt, it doesn’t mean that your ammo made it there also. So, if you’re scrambling for ammo, you’ll find 30-06, 7RM… a definite maybe!
If you shoot 264 with modern powders ? I really doubt the 7mm mag is flatter on trajectory., and if you shoot 30-06 with same barrel lengths, bullet weights and modern powders? I doubt there will be much difference. High BC bullets is the only difference
I like both cartridges. The 30-06 will always be the GOAT. Id be curious to see what an 8mm mag would be like with modern components. Remington did a disservice to the 6.5,350 and the 8mm mag in such light rifles and or stubby barrels.
Every time I look to buy a different cartridge I look in my safe and see if it fills a space that another cartridge I have doesn't already occupie. To clarify for hunting I have a 7mm08, 30-06, 6.8 western, 45-70, and 264 win mag. With those 5 I'm set for every distance and game in north America.
Ive got both. The truth is its been awhile since ive used either. Currently I run a little 308 scout rifle, 270win mountain rifle and a 338win when Im in suspect grizzly locations which happen to be more regular and expanding. I suspect overall the 30-06 might be the most useful? Its kind of a cheat code of sort with an massive bullet selection and adequate powder capacity and barrel life. Really its hard to beat a good 30-06 teamed up with an simple reload kit. In performance and economy logistical considerations the 30-06 wins. Now I feel the need to go take out the 30-06.
I couldn't imagine living in a world without the 06. Shooting, hunting and reloading would definitely be alot less interesting, productive and more behind the times.
I started out with a 30 06 rifle. Went to 7mm mag never went back. I am a 7mm bullet fan. I have a 280 rem, 280AI, and 7mm mag. I'm looking at getting a 7mm stw. The only 30 cal I have right now is a 300 wby!!!
Great video. I still would rather a short barrel but I don't shoot magnums. I have a ruger american 270 with a 20" barrel suppressed and I'm safely hand loading 130gr TTSX with h4350 at an avg velocity of 3015. Factory loads with the same bullets in the same gun avg 3021.
As much as newer components and equipment have theoretically allowed hunting at longer distances than say 20-30 years ago, I have to point out that there were some out in the deer hills that could make 550-600 yard shots. I witnessed 2 myself, with a guy who had a Remington 760 pump and Sierra 165gr boattails loaded to 2700fps (book velocity). The other thing I recall, was a neighbor who had a custom 30-06 built on a Magnum length action and a 26" heavy bull type barrel. He said he did not worry about "blowing it up" with handloads. He drove that '06 to the max. It may have said 30-06 on the barrel, but in practice, it was a lot more. Just some fun stuff from the past.
@@Hunter-vl6ft. I'd have loved to get my hands on that rig, unfortunately the owner passed, his children and ex had some "issues" and I never saw it again.
I watched a you tube episode about the terminal assent to see if it would properly expand past 1000 yds and it did! Sorry do not remember the person doing the test or the caliber but it was impressive. I would never shoot at an animal anywhere close to that distance but the bullet was still opening properly even at extreme distance
You make some really strong points here. you’re totally right that Magnum cartridges deserve 26 inch barrel minimum. But if you’re gonna compare velocities, it’s got to be with the same barrel length. a .30-06 will also benefit with a longer barrel, albeit less so than a 7 mag. Lastly, a .30-06 should benefit slightly more from hand loading to 65 kpsi than the 7 rem mag because it has a lower pressure rating for factory cartridges.
I understand that the 30-06 would do really well with a 26 inch barrel. But I'm trying to give data from hunting rifles you see typically. Not sure I've ever seen a factory rifle in 30-06 with a 26 inch barrel.
I have 2, savage 112, and a ruger #1, both are bone stock rifles, not many out there with 26 inches in 06, my 24 inch shilen barrel on my savage 110, beats both by 50 to 100 fps depending on the loads
You stated that the 7 Rem Mag, 338 & 264 Win Mags used the same parent case. While that’s true, the 7WBY & 300WBY also used the same parent case. Just to full length.
I have both 06 and 7mm Rem mag. I have to agree that with factory ammunition you can definitely get more out of the 30-06. Especially with Federal Terminal Assents or Winchester's Expedition Big Game with 190 gr Accubond LR. Factory ammunition for 7mm Rem mag is mediocre in my opinion. You do need a 26" pipe to get close to billed velocities for factory 7mm Rem mag. As you said, if you handload 7mm Rem mag. It hard to beat. She hits hard and shoots like a lazer beam. If you have to choose between the two, a consideration would be do you handload or not. If you do get the 30-06., With premium factory ammunition you'll be more than happy. From a 22" pipe it does rather well. If you have a Remington 700 CDL or Winchester 70 with a 24" in 06, the 30'06 really performs. The thing you have to watch out for with the 7mm Rem mag, is twist rate. Typical factory rifles offer the 7 rem mag in slower 9.25 to 9.50 twist rates. To stabilize higher bc bullets in the 7 Rem mag you need something with a 8" twist rate, With a 26" pipe. A standard factory barrel will shoot higher bc 162 and 168gr bullets just fine. My model 70 love's them. If I go to the 175 gr plus my 7mm Rem model 70 turns into a shotgun. The advantage with .30 cal's especially with the 06 is a 1" and 10" twist rate will stabilize a vast majority of hunting bullets. Im not poo-pooing the 7 Rem mag. These are things Ive noticed because I own both. Both cartridges have their advantages over each other. You have to be aware of both cartridges nuances. You have to know their limitations. Handload vs factory.
i am made in 1962 also. i get 3000 fps 175 gr sierra. 68 gr imr 7828. 24" barrel. I like the 30 06 also. I cant tell any recoil difference, my length of pull is correct, and rifle built on p14 action. its an old recipe from 25 yrs ago.
Great assessment! In addition to this, the 7 has good sectional density, and excellent BC in modern bullets. It is versatile. The .300win is the biggest challenger. For top loads 7RM / .300 win, with nolser using each calibers highest BC RDF bullets, the 7RM beats out the 300 every step of the way after about 600yds regarding velocity and drop and drift. The 300 maintains 15-10% more energy in trade all the way. This was out to 3000yd. This using 175gr / 210gr respectively, plotted on a calculator. By switching to copper you can gain BC with less bullet grainage, pushing those pills faster yet. There is a lot to like about 7 & 300.
Make your own choices but, the '06 can be pushed far past book max. Saami specs it 5000 psi less than the 270. There's no reason for that in today's guns. Obviously, look for pressure along the way, like all times, but you can expect much more.
My favorite bullet is the discontinued 160-grain Nosler CT Partition. The "bridge" on those was moved just a bit forward, allowing for a bit more retained weight, and the tip was a bit pointier. I have a few squirreled away.
The 7mm mag was designed to have the same recoil as the 06. Thec300 win mag has more recoil. The 06 is over 100 years old and doing good for a old lady
the biggest problem with the 7RM is the terrible variance in chamber sizes. I've owned a few, and it's like they couldn't decide on the correct dimensions, so they just fooled around and made em really big.
Keep in mind when using nickel plated bullets , you can run into problems when using non plated ones. Nickel fouling can be removed by abrasives ONLY! Very bad stuff.
My Critera...every comparison should be with a 22" barrel in a repeating rifle. Myself, In our West slope Rockies area a long onerous rifle is worse than a few extra ounces of rifle weight. Y'know..the 30/06 rules.
Tking only the "s[ecs" for the 7mm Rem Mag you will be fooled. THe SAAMI spec was as it states a average max presure and was derived becasue earloy reamers were notoriously out of spec so the average had to be lower to avoid the rifle makers mistakes. THe 30-06 is rated at 60000k the Rem at 61000k. Even though based off same case as 300 win and all standard belted magnums at 64000 - 65000k. When loaded for own rifle it regularly can easily push a 175gr to 3100 nd 195 to 3000+ if magazine length can accomadate.
i shoot 7mm rem mag from my sako AIII Carbine 480 mm barrel so it is like 19 inches, i reloaded it up to 960 ms 3150 fps with 150gr nosler e-tip. i handload and use reloading tool, i got to say that with biased view you get really strange takes on physics ! if the cartridge is bigger then you have more power period ! you have to have a little bit different brain to start to wonder that 1000hp 10 l engine is as powerful as 2000 hp 20 l engine. i can put this all to the reloading software but we all know that 30-06 with 19" barrel wont shoot even 800 ms 2640 fps with that short of a barrel with a same bullet. it just has a much smaller engine. ps N570 is wrong powder for the 175 grn bullet i have reloaded it and the sweet spot was N560 or Norma MRP much much faster with a 26 inch barrel 🤣
Ok, I won't be buying a 7mm Rem Mag with a 24" barrel lol. Currently looking at going 6.8 Western with the Seekins Precision Havak PH2 that has a 24" barrel that should be Ok.
@@ReloadingWeatherby If limited to 7mm, I would go 280 Rem, but I prefer the 30-06, with the 270 a close second. Most of my hunting is done with a 338 WM and heavy(ish) loads, and my best handloads are out of a 22-250(3 shots hidden under a dime at 100 meters) I am very intrigued with the 338-06, it might be ideal for where I live.
I went from 270 to the 7mm Remington mag. Both great cartridges but simplified my life with the 30-06. Plentiful brass, common and cheap enough to hand load to give much trigger time. I'm sentimental and have a strong sense of history. The 30-06 has done it all for well over a century. The cartridge of America in 2 world wars. A benchmark cartridge by which all others are judged. I've owned and fired many rifles in many different cartridges and hand loaded for all of them. I cannot live without the boring, trusty, rusty 30-06. It is just simply so dang good.
There are very good reasons for the 06 being the standard that other cartridges compared to.
@jaybailleaux630 I recommended my buddy start with a 308 instead of a 270, because I had a feeling he might some day step up to a 7mm RM. Going from a 270 to a 7RM just seems too much to me like a small increase of almost exactly the same thing. Which I guess is fine if you sell your 270 or have a giant collection. But the next centerfire he buys will be his second. (He went with the 270)
I went from 7mag to 270. Does the same thing with less recoil.
You can skin this cat several different ways. Usually in favor of your particular bias. If you're going with a 26" barrel on the 7 (not a bad idea) then go 26" with the 06 and see what happens. Truth is, the 06 does pretty good in a 22" barrel. Also, everyone talks about long range like its the norm. Not really. Even though everyone on the interwebs is a gifted long range shooter. Riiiiight. I simply ask myself, what would I hunt with one that I wouldn't with the other. Nothing, pick the one you like and have confidence in.
You make a great point on that barrel length. Great great grandpa’s ‘06 is achieving similar results while using a much shorter length barrel. Something else to consider is that most 7mm Rems are usually better suited to that lighter 162-165 max weight because of the twist rate and the chamber cut for the SAMMI spec. Whereas the ’06 was almost always designed to use those heavier loads and have the longer more aerodynamic projectiles.
I’ve said it for years and I’ll say again. Luckily we don’t have to, but if you had to own only one hunting rifle for all your big game needs in North America, the only cartridge you should be looking at is the 30-06. The versatility of the vast range of bullets alone makes it the best caliber in the league, and the case volume is sufficient to do just about anything you could possibly want. Modern hand loaders are easily achieving equal or better than original factory loaded 300WM results.
AMEN! Great minds think alike! Thomas, Mississippi.
I dont think everyone is gifted at long range. Its just easier than ever to get into and learn. I shoot to 500 every weekend. Me snd the buddy go to his farm and just shoot. Do it enough and you get decent enough. Plenty of youtube videos on how to get started. Guns are more accurate and better than they have ever been. Scopes can be had cheap. Its a good time to be into long range shooting.
3:41 @@thatguyfishingben4794
@@soonerfrac4611I have a 7 mm mag but I don't have the 3006, but I have shot them. Regardless I agree. Not crazy about the 7 mag recoil
All of these old time cartriges aren't great with factory ammo, but with handloads they really wake up and can be special when compared to the "latest and greatest" of today
Yep
Well said.
True… you can handload to peak performance indeed but…
We just harvested a bull moose and a bull elk and my buddy was running factory 175gr federal fusions in his 7RM with 2850fps at the muzzle and I do say I was impressed with the performance. For general purpose moose/elk work inside of 400m those fusions do very well. Where we hunt the vast majority of opportunities are in the 50m to 350m range.
Cheers!
@@trevorkolmatycki4042 Yes and this is why we don’t ( NEED ) all these new cartridges because 90% of animals are taken under 300 yds and the new cartridges offer very little or no difference at that range ! Most ( average ) hunters can’t hit a deer or elk in the vitals past 300 yards anyway . It’s all about selling new rifles !……..
Your spot on
220 Partition @2600
200 Patition @ 2700
180 Partition @2900 with R17...have had it pressure tested
Love the 06
30-06.. PERIOD. AVAILABLE, reasonable, sensible and capable of doing it all. Again,
PERIOD.
Thanks for watching
30.06 , always the standard by which others are compared.
Remember that spec pressure for the 30-06 is 58,740 to 60,000. I personally would feel fine exceeding that in a modern bolt action with handloads. The same case is rated to 65,000 in the 280 AI and the rifles are all built on the same actions. All the book data is to at most 60k PSI.
True.
The 270 Win came out in 1925 pushing 65,000 psi. I dont think running an '06 to the same limits will cause any problems. As a matter of fact I'll bet Reloading Weatherby knows a friend who has tested this theory a time or two.
I have been a 7Mag Fan since forever. Altho the 22 Mag was my first "magnum" the 7Mag was my first Big Game Magnum. Its always been "close" to the venerable 30/06. The 7Mag shines as yardage lengthens.
Recoil is very close.
Bullet weight goes to the '06
Trajectories really are close as the '06 aint as bad as many initially think. But the .284 is ballistically superior so nearly always comes out "better".
Bullet dia is something most ways we measure the effectiveness isn't measured but it remains one of the biggest integer's in that scenario.
Also most think these magnums can be used at distances far past where they are actually optimal. (I know you know this stuff Austin.)
Another great video! 🇺🇸❤️🩹🙏🙏
Can't go wrong with either if you're a handloader. Just one more reason I'm glad I got into it over thirty years ago.
I have always loved the 7mm Rem Mag, I've owned a couple, A Rem 700 BDL Custom Deluxe and the first Browning model A Bolt with a 26" barrel, the Browning would squeeze every bit of power out of the charge whereas the Remington only had a 24" tube, but neither one ever let me down, even with factory loads. About as close to perfection as ya can get IMO.
7mm mag needs a 26" bbl. Factory ammo is anemic. Gotta roll your own.
The original 2 factory loads were a 150gr at 3260 fps and a 175gr at 3020 out of a 26" barrel as per Remington's claims. By the late 1970's these had been down graded due to the use of 24" barrels and because it was being reported that some ballistic labs were reporting occasional weird pressure spikes when testing ammo.
I traded my 7 mm Remington Magnum for a 30-06 and never looked back. The 30-06 cartridge is much more versatile with different bullets and bullet weights available.
Also, we really should not be shooting much beyond 400 yards at big game. In field conditions people are just not that accurate to place a killing shot into the vitals of a big game animal constantly past 4 football field lengths. There are no concrete shooting benches in the mountains, the wind is unpredictable ( just ask a mountain certified pilot), and your own physical condition is a big factor.
Montana did a study on Wounding Loss in big game season. It was found that for every 100 animals taken off the field, 15 to 30 were lost to wounding. Simply an unacceptable number. Ever wonder where the trophy mule deer went?
AND what about archery wound statistics? I bet it's 50% and maybe higher. Just sayin'.
Not bucking up at you, but how is the 30-06 "much more versatile?" Both take game from deer to big bears equally well. Who honestly uses a 220 gr bullet anyway? A 200 gr spire point does just as well. A 175 gr has a SD of 310 vs 200 gr in .308 caliber SD of 301. Bc are about the same in those bullets. Loads are within a few grs of each other. So, recoil is comparable. The trajectory goes to the 7mm. I have taken plenty of game, including elk, with both. There is no difference in terminal effect. They are both great catridges, but I fail to see the great difference in versatility that you claim. Not to mention, with monometals, the 7mm probably outshines the 30-06. Could you explain your statement, as I am at a loss to see your claim as true. That is, after shooting both side by side for 40 years. Thanks.
@@jayheslin803 Well if you look at factory loadings, there are many more loads available to 30-06 shooters. Also the weight of (most) factory rifles in 7 mm Rem Mag is heavier, half a pound is significantly heavier unless you are a road hunter. Shorter barrels are more convenient. You can have your 7 mm and I will take my 30-06…… have a safe hunting season!
@@TODinWY Yes, I agree.
But walk into any Scheels or Cabelas and go to the scope counter. Almost every scope now makes you a sniper, capable of shooting out to 800 to 1000 yards, or so the public thinks.
@williamfeldner9356 Like I said, I am not bucking up or coming down on you. I am genuinely curious about what game the '06 is better on? I have 7mm mags in 26" and 24", '06s in 24"and 22." Honestly, I would be OK with a 7mm mag in 22". Their loads are within a grain or two. Powder selection weighs heavy in that situation.
I agree 400 yards is a solid maximum for shooting at unwounded game. Honestly, I do not think the majority of hunters, especially Eastern hunters, have much business or the skills to consistently take game at beyond 250. Me, 350ish is where I really start soul searching. I have multiple rifles in both the catridges in question. I have shot them side by side for 40 years. I am in my 6th decade. An extra inch or two and the added half pound or less in weight doesn't affect me. No, I do not road hunt or use a wheeler. I reload, as everyone should. If forced to shop for catridges, it is as easy to find one as the other, in comparable bullets. I have never noticed a difference in the terminal effect of one over the other.
The truth is I hunt mostly now with a 7mm-08 and a 243. I have killed many elk and a few moose with that little 7mm-08 , and its 20" barrel. With the right bullet, right conditions, and right shot, I would gladly kill elk with my 243. I also bow hunt. As to the statement, another poster made about wounded game and archery. I agree. However, I think that comes about from compound bows and sights, making archers believe in 60-plus yard shots. I shot a 50# bow. Either a recurve or long bow. I shoot instinctively. I have been shooting bows for 50-plus years. I use heavy arrow/broadhead combos. Specifically, heavy, cut on contact, single beveled, 2 bladed broadheads. Shots are kept at less than 35 yards, preferably under 30. I have never lost an animal with a bow. I have lost two with a rifle. The skill set and ability to make a lethal shot trumps all.
Not being critical of your choice. I shot an '06 for years. A 7mm mag, likewise. Then I discovered modern bullets and just how effective they are. In my mind, there is no reason to use an '06 nor 7mm mag. Give me a 243, 6.5, or a mild 7mm, and I am good. If I am iffy... I have a couple of 375s and a 458. It's always interesting chatting. Safe hunts. Successful hunts. Cheers!
Another great and honest review of two very fine cartridges. I own a 7mm mag and my load development has been paused by injuries and health issues. 72-yrs old and I did not get the extended warranty. N570, H1000 are two powders I am currently looking at to try. I have RL26 and now new load data for handing is available. I may never get out west for Elk BUT I have access to 25-yd to 700-yd range in SE PA. 600-yds is chip shot for me during my High-power days with the 223 80-gr Sierra. Again, thank you for putting excellent information and data.
If you have rl26 no need to keep shopping. That's the king of 7mm in every case capacity. But trying and knowing is fun no matter your age.
I love my 700 SPS 7mm rem mag! Glass bedded, free floating barrel, and lightened trigger. I only use handloads of course.
30-06 the old war horse is hard to beat! Great video
I agree with the 300wby statement. My vanguard rips factory 180 ttsx at 3271
300 WBY is king!
@@ReloadingWeatherby I agree
I can get a bit over 3000fps with a 165gr hornady interlock in my 24 inch 30-06.
In Australia we've only got basic powders available, I find most people I know who shoot 7mm rem mags have stepped up from 308's. Me personally I don't think the rem mag is worth moving up to.
The "speed demon" 7mm was usually using 140 grain bullets. Almost no one was using 175 geain bullets back in 1962.
For hunting ranges, theres no need to shoot 175gr bullets out of a 7 mag. You lose the flat trajectory that is the best part of the 7 mag. 150 monos, or 160s cup and core.
@@whiteyfisk9769 I lived in Alaska for 37 years, no matter what you're hunting you're in Grizzly country. So I always used the 175 grainers for everything...
@@johnganshow5536 That definitely changes things. I lived in Alaska for 5 years, i still live in grizz country now. I always carried the 300 win mag with 180gr bullets.
A few years here i carried a 270 with 130gr ttsx for deer. But when you have a grizzly at 8 yards, that 180gr hits alot harder than a 130.
@@johnganshow5536 If you are hunting in Alaska, why the coyote gun? 😉
@@whiteyfisk9769did you ever consider the 35whelen in either place..or just needed a little longer range caliber ?
I’m a hand loader a gunsmith and I’ve owned 2. 7 rem mags
I now own several 30-06s
In my opinion it’s a better round if I need more I’ll step up to a 300 or 338
Thanks for sharing
@@ReloadingWeatherby I wasn’t clear I meant to 30-06 is a better round
@@Steve-vx2xp I understood what you said.
I greatly disagree
@@gregcamp4290 You’re entitled to your opinion
That 200 gr Terminal Ascent loading is the shindizzle for going after large game with a 30/06. Puts it in a whole other class.
The good old do it all 3006. I personally like my 270 more but will not give up My 3006 ether
I handload and have for over 47 years also I run at least a 26" barrel on all my rifles with the exception being my little 06 auto for thick brush hunting , h1000 and retumbo are excellent powders also for my 7, 300, 338 winny and 338 lapua
I get more speed out of retumbo, than anything else and better accuracy, but needs bore cleaning more often, if it is used for competition. Slow burning powders leave more carbon in the barrel.
Used a 150 gr eld-x out of my 7mm rem mag with a 26" barrel last year worked darn well.
Nice
@ReloadingWeatherby on elk anyways just got into handloading a couple years ago really enjoy your videos
Easy answer. Buy both! 👌
I have 4 of each. A guy has to be prepared, right?
AMEN BROTHER
@@leroyhileman4284 dammit!! I only have two of each
Both of those are very good. I currently have a 30-06. But lately I've been comparing 7 rem mag and 7 PRC. I think I'll stick with 7 rem mag for my next rifle. Thanks for the video, good comparison 👍🏼
The ABLR 175 is the only bullet I shoot in 7mm Rem Mag. I only have a 22" barrel, because I purchased with a thread and use a 6" suppressor, so it ends up being close to 28" as it is. I still get 2878 FPS average and that's plenty for a 600 yard rifle. Where I hunt, I cannot take advantage of this rifle too much, but I do enjoy shooting it. Honestly, most of my deer have been taken with my .45-70 Single, Lever or .45 colt Single or Leverguns. I wish I could get my hands on some RL22 because I can get 2921 fps with that over MagPro, but I haven't been able to find any for years.
Great vid- I would have liked to see the 7RM comparison made with a .280 rem or .280AI. From a hand loading standpoint I like efficiency in burning as little of my precious powder as possible.
I had a Rem 700 LSS in 7mm Rem mag, sighted in with 160gr Nosler partitions. It was under 1" at 100 yards with factory ammo. My cousins that shot it said that they'd trade their '06 for the 7mm. It was just a lower recoiling rifle. I sold it after it went off one day without pulling the trigger. That was before the class action suit against Remington came to. Didn't know at the time that I could have replaced the trigger.
Can you a video on the 3006AI using modern powder? Alk I can find is older stuff. I use the 165 hornday copper bullet
In 1962, there was also a lesser know cartridge.. the 308 Norma Mag. Which got buried by 7 rem mag and then 300 win mag.
The .308 Norma mag is a European round, with a slightly smaller case than the 300 win mag, but it is just as good. I think the winmag out sells it because it is American and easier to get ammo. Norma has brought out the 300 Norma which has a shorter, but much fatter case and more powder capacity. The 300 Norma is a very modern case, which holds slightly less powder, than the Remington Ultra magnum, however I prefer the Norma. The Norma case requires a wider shell holder, for handloaders. My second favorite is the 300 weatherby, with which I have won a lot of 1000 yard competitions. I also have an Ackley improved 30--06, but had to wait 6 months for dies, so have not shot it yet. The ballistics of the 7mm mags are better than the 30 cals, but are harder on barrels. The non magnum 7mms are much better than the magnums, on barrel wear. The 284 win case, is very popular in Australia.
@johnbodman4504 My good friend has a sporterized Mauser in .308 norma mag. It's old as dirt. He gave $200 for it, came with Nikon scope mounted, and a box of ammo. It's heavy and just plain works. We shot his 7 rem mag right after his norma and noticed the brass was the same height, and I did some research, and some folks say that the 7 rem mag is just a necked down .308 Norma.
I've been listening to/reading a lot of Kevin Robertson lately. He is perhaps one of the foremost experts in the world when it comes to cartridge and bullet selection for hunting (on top of being the author of "The Perfect Shot" and "The Perfect Shot, 2", the definitive manuals on shot placement). He's a trained/educated African animal veterinarian and was a professional hunter for about 30 years throughout southern Africa - primarily Zimbabwe, but also South Africa, Mozambique, Zambia, Tanzania, and Namibia.
All else being relatively equal, bullets with higher Sectional Density will out-penetrate those with lower SD. There are other factors to consider, of course, but it largely starts there. With that in mind, a 175 gr 7mm bullet will out-penetrate a 30 caliber bullet of 180 gr. But there is a threshold on SD, bullet mass, bullet frontal area, and impact velocity where "enough" is literally enough. With a slight nod to 7mm RM, it is superior, but not enough to make a *practical* difference at ordinary hunting distances on almost any game animal we might want to hunt.
My best friend and I recently went on a safari in Limpopo province in South Africa. I used my 9.3x62 and he ended up having to use a "camp rifle" chambered in 30-06 (because UA sucks, we'd done a lot of LD for his 300 WSM that UA "forgot" in the holding area in Newark, along with the rifles of 8 or 10 other hunters on his flight). I brought my 9.3x62 because I knew I was likely to have an opportunity at a cape buffalo, but that 30-06 killed his 2 large animals (blue wildebeest and zebra) every bit as effectively as my 9.3x62. And I don't even have a small doubt that our 280AIs with 175 gr North Forks would have been every bit as effective as the 9.3x62 or the 30-06; especially at "Limpopo distances" of under 150 yards.
*********edit*************
The caution on 175 NABLR in 7mm - the barrel length doesn't matter if it doesn't have at least a 9 twist. Lots of 7mm barrels (particularly Savage) are cut at a 9.5 twist, and that won't stabilize 175 gr NABLR.
Federal's Terminal Ascent line of bullets are the long range version of their wildly popular Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, a bullet line used to great effect on dangerous game in calibers like 375 H&H magnum, 416 Remington Magnum, 458 Win mag, etc. It's a great bullet.
I am a huge fan of Kevin Robertson. His knowledge in hunting, bullet placement and caliber/bullet selection are second to none. And as much as he mentions it in his writings, talk to him in person it’s even more so. Lol but one thing I like to add and recommend is that hunting deer, elk and large bears in North America, is not the same as hunting large plains game in Africa. African large game, (not counting dangerous game) have their vitals located farther forward than ours often requiring shooting through the shoulders, not behind them. And in my experience, and as many others will tell you their game animals are definitely tougher than ours.
@@forward1165 No disagreement on any of that, save for elk and moose and big bears shot with fast moving bullets. a 270 is a decent all around cartridge, but fire a cup-and-core 130 gr on a quartering-to on a big bull elk or moose, things aren't likely to go well. And a 175 gr 7mm or 180 or 200 gr .308 bullet will usually travel farther through the body than a 270 firing a 150 gr A Frame would. Momentum is a thing, too, which Doctari also brings up quite a lot.
In any case, back to the topic of this video, very little difference between 7mm RM and 30-06, not enough difference to make a difference except at the extreme edges.
One thing not mentioned in this video was how by the mid-70s, 7mm RM had developed quite a reputation as a wounder (and not killer) of elk. Those cup and core 140 and 150 gr 7mm bullets screaming along at 3k+ weren't holding together very well on quartering shots. None of those hunters had gotten the memo on Partitions, even though they'd been around since the late 1940s, and by 1982, we had Swift A Frames as well. I'm not sure how much longer people would have continued using 7mm RM if not for the advent of premium bullets.
Exactly , my local gun shop has bags and bags of 7 REM mag once fired brass and I live in small town , except for the 6.5 crapmore you can’t find any once fired brass for the ( new ) cartridges !…..
Great Video, I have all three cartridges. Prefer the 300 Weatherby Mag.
Good video I think you nailed it! Because factory 06 ammo is cheaper than 7mag. Which you say benefits better with hand loads.
I was very surprised by the ftlb comparison
Thanks for watching!
@@ReloadingWeatherby thanks for making awesome content
Which reloading handbook you are using at 6:30? It shows load density which is pretty cool
Nosler. Not sure which edition. But it is a Nosler manual.
@@MTMILITIAMAN7.62 Thanks!
I really want to build a long throated chamber and fast twist barrel custom 264 win mag. Its got wonderful BC for below 160grain projectiles and is better than 284 caliber projectiles BC of the same weight. 264 win mag is the best 6.5. I gotta learn how to handload, but it's my current obsession for a hunting rifle build.
could you make a video or short turning 7saum brass into 6.8 western or maybe a full video on fire forming and making brass for more obscure cartridges
I'll see what I can do
I love my 30-06, but I never thought this was really that close really. The 7RM has a better case design, more streamline bullet and more case capacity.
With factory ammo they are pretty close to each other
@ReloadingWeatherby just a testament to how lame some factory loads are.
@@galenpedersen4755The 7MM Rem Mag .Case design SUCKS in modern.terms. BELTS ARE B.S.
@@JamesClark-lw6swAnd will still shoot well and kill big game equally well.
I can't disagree with this hypothesis. A good 7mm Rem. Mag. being fed maximum performance hand loads is a real go getter. A good .30-06 can be maximized to the point of not being a disappointment in a hundred hunting seasons and do it a bit more economically. It's not really a question of which can give you the biggest numbers. It's more of a question as to whether you would ever be disappointed with either shooting at it's best potential in the field. I think both will deliver steaks to the freezer quite well.
Belted cases tend to be good for fewer reloads, so as a handloader I'd go for the 7 PRC now.
I think that is a good theory for me to test. Everyone thinks belted cases don't last as long... Not that I disagree, I'm just curious if it's actually true.
Get a larry willis collet sizing die and your brass will last much longer.
Good video. Can’t go wrong either way. I’d go with a 30-06 in 22 inches. It will still be relatively close to a 7 REM Mag in a 26 inch barrel. 7 mag will definitely be faster. Just the difference between non-magnum and magnum.
Thanks for watching and your insight
7 Mag hard to Beat. Flat Shooting, 175 Grain hits hard. Shoot long Distances. Mellow Recoil. Ammo everywhere
Hope you enjoy the video
I would assert that not only can you go 3000 with 162gr 7mm but you need to for the proper small group and small SD.
Thanks for watching Ross
I run a bit over 3000 with a 165gr in my 30-06.
Not to get off topic, but did you get your elk? Did you use the .340?
I didn't get an elk this year... I used my 300 WBY
Can you show these velocities with safe pressure for the 30-06 on the program you have. I know it’s dependant on internal volume As each company has different internal volumes. Cause 2750 with a 200 outta a 30-06 sounds Ludacris lol
You need to use slower powders for those 200+ gr bullets to achieve 2700+ fps....like rl22, h4831sc,.....I get 2650 from a 225 eldm with rl22...I've even used rl26...this is from a Howa 1500 with a 22" barrel.
Yeah I'll show it. I did get up to 2870 FPS with the 190 ABLR...
@@RobertSmith-xh4lx I’ve used h4831sc at 54 grains with a 220 partition and was just about mid 2400. Maybe I got a slow barrel. Not sure. Tikka t3x
But that maybe low pressure. lol.
@@ReloadingWeatherby what’s that program you use ? I want to get it Cause I might be way under pressure Not sure. Even with 57 grains imr4350 with 180 sst I could barely get 2700. Maybe I have a low pressure barrel. Not sure
The 7mm Remington Magnum shines when you keep your bullet weights down around 140 grains or less. The 06 rocks with 150-168 grain bullets. If you want to shoot super heavy bullets, use a larger bore caliber!
If throated and loaded properly, the 7mm Rem mag will absolutely equal the Weatherby version. I run 3120fps out of a 24" stainless in my old 700 Rem 7mm Rem mag. 3060 is easy with 175 gr partitions.
Dreamer…..the Weatherby round is superior no matter how much you fiddle with your rem mag.
Your comparison is interesting; and after checking behind you I would draw a different conclusion. You’re probably correct that the best choice for bullets in the .30-06 is a Barnes TTSX; but you could go with a 110 grain. The 120 in the 7mm Rem Mag is right in between. We have a conundrum; and must decide whether to choose speed, sectional density or mass. I would be measuring the case head expansion and pushing the charge on the 30-06 until I hit safe pressure limits. I believe the .30-06 would push the 130 beyond 3,300 fps that Barnes lists. So I would pass on the 7mm Rem Mag and choose .30-06; but if I wanted more I would go with the Weatherby cartridges.
Thanks for your comment!
Agree. My 7RM Tikka with their new 1:9 twist barrel gets 3125 with 168 LRX and 73g Ramshot Grand. I actually hit 3176 fps but had too much case head expansion so settled on 73g.
Quick follow up to my comment. One of the benefits of the 7RM was recoil levels about like a 30-06 or only slightly greater but with better ballistics. Once we start loading the 7 rem mag to its full potential and pushing heavier bullets, we lose that benefit because we approach 300 magnum recoil levels, especially in sub 8 pound rifles, I’m not so sure it makes it more effective on game at reasonable hunting distances. Always a trade off.
What was that video that you posted a while back about a friend of yours getting in sane velocities with a 30-06?
I posted 2 videos on shooting the 190 gr ABLR. Both guns got over 2800 FPS
Is the terminal ascent bullet finally available as a component??
Kind of...
@ ???
@@alexandrealain You can get some of them on the Federal website... it's very expensive
The 30-06 is great for hand loading and has a huge range of factory offerings. But the main thing is that the 30-06 can be found in every gun/hunting store in the world. While the 7RM is very popular in North America, the 30-06 is that popular around the world!
Remember, just because you bought a plane ticket to wherever you wanted to hunt, it doesn’t mean that your ammo made it there also. So, if you’re scrambling for ammo, you’ll find 30-06, 7RM… a definite maybe!
I have a 7 mag she love a 168 vld with retumbo with a lot of energy
so what would the 7 MM rem mag necked up to .30 be called?
308 Norma Mag
If you shoot 264 with modern powders ? I really doubt the 7mm mag is flatter on trajectory., and if you shoot 30-06 with same barrel lengths, bullet weights and modern powders? I doubt there will be much difference. High BC bullets is the only difference
Nice catch. I agree. My mistake
@@ReloadingWeatherby no worries
I like both cartridges. The 30-06 will always be the GOAT.
Id be curious to see what an 8mm mag would be like with modern components.
Remington did a disservice to the 6.5,350 and the 8mm mag in such light rifles and or stubby barrels.
Thanks for your comment!
Every time I look to buy a different cartridge I look in my safe and see if it fills a space that another cartridge I have doesn't already occupie. To clarify for hunting I have a 7mm08, 30-06, 6.8 western, 45-70, and 264 win mag. With those 5 I'm set for every distance and game in north America.
Those are all great but you "need" a 35whelen too!😁😉🤣
@@camwinston5248 It is a great cartridge. I do have a bunch of other rifles and cartridges its just for my needs these 5 are the ones I grab.
Ive got both. The truth is its been awhile since ive used either. Currently I run a little 308 scout rifle, 270win mountain rifle and a 338win when Im in suspect grizzly locations which happen to be more regular and expanding. I suspect overall the 30-06 might be the most useful? Its kind of a cheat code of sort with an massive bullet selection and adequate powder capacity and barrel life. Really its hard to beat a good 30-06 teamed up with an simple reload kit. In performance and economy logistical considerations the 30-06 wins. Now I feel the need to go take out the 30-06.
I couldn't imagine living in a world without the 06. Shooting, hunting and reloading would definitely be alot less interesting, productive and more behind the times.
Thanks for watching
I started out with a 30 06 rifle. Went to 7mm mag never went back. I am a 7mm bullet fan. I have a 280 rem, 280AI, and 7mm mag. I'm looking at getting a 7mm stw. The only 30 cal I have right now is a 300 wby!!!
Nice
Great video. I still would rather a short barrel but I don't shoot magnums. I have a ruger american 270 with a 20" barrel suppressed and I'm safely hand loading 130gr TTSX with h4350 at an avg velocity of 3015. Factory loads with the same bullets in the same gun avg 3021.
My gunsmith is putting a new 26in barrel on my 7mm mag in the next week. Can't wait to start load testing.
As much as newer components and equipment have theoretically allowed hunting at longer distances than say 20-30 years ago, I have to point out that there were some out in the deer hills that could make 550-600 yard shots. I witnessed 2 myself, with a guy who had a Remington 760 pump and Sierra 165gr boattails loaded to 2700fps (book velocity). The other thing I recall, was a neighbor who had a custom 30-06 built on a Magnum length action and a 26" heavy bull type barrel. He said he did not worry about "blowing it up" with handloads. He drove that '06 to the max. It may have said 30-06 on the barrel, but in practice, it was a lot more. Just some fun stuff from the past.
Same kinda set up I have, except mine is specd for long loads and it can easily get high 31s with 208 a tips. Muzzle break also.
@@Hunter-vl6ft. I'd have loved to get my hands on that rig, unfortunately the owner passed, his children and ex had some "issues" and I never saw it again.
@@Hunter-vl6ftIs keyboard bullshit
I watched a you tube episode about the terminal assent to see if it would properly expand past 1000 yds and it did! Sorry do not remember the person doing the test or the caliber but it was impressive. I would never shoot at an animal anywhere close to that distance but the bullet was still opening properly even at extreme distance
I also saw that video. It was a 170 gr TA in a 7mm PRC.
What reloading book is that?
Hornady and Nosler
You make some really strong points here. you’re totally right that Magnum cartridges deserve 26 inch barrel minimum. But if you’re gonna compare velocities, it’s got to be with the same barrel length. a .30-06 will also benefit with a longer barrel, albeit less so than a 7 mag.
Lastly, a .30-06 should benefit slightly more from hand loading to 65 kpsi than the 7 rem mag because it has a lower pressure rating for factory cartridges.
I understand that the 30-06 would do really well with a 26 inch barrel. But I'm trying to give data from hunting rifles you see typically. Not sure I've ever seen a factory rifle in 30-06 with a 26 inch barrel.
I have 2, savage 112, and a ruger #1, both are bone stock rifles, not many out there with 26 inches in 06, my 24 inch shilen barrel on my savage 110, beats both by 50 to 100 fps depending on the loads
Very nice breakdown
Thank you
Maybe in a Semi Auto 06 be the one. Thick Timber, big Elk. 7 Mag maybe better Open Country like a 270
You stated that the 7 Rem Mag, 338 & 264 Win Mags used the same parent case. While that’s true, the 7WBY & 300WBY also used the same parent case. Just to full length.
7mm Wby is not a full length H&H case.
I have both 06 and 7mm Rem mag. I have to agree that with factory ammunition you can definitely get more out of the 30-06. Especially with Federal Terminal Assents or Winchester's Expedition Big Game with 190 gr Accubond LR. Factory ammunition for 7mm Rem mag is mediocre in my opinion. You do need a 26" pipe to get close to billed velocities for factory 7mm Rem mag. As you said, if you handload 7mm Rem mag. It hard to beat. She hits hard and shoots like a lazer beam. If you have to choose between the two, a consideration would be do you handload or not. If you do get the 30-06., With premium factory ammunition you'll be more than happy. From a 22" pipe it does rather well. If you have a Remington 700 CDL or Winchester 70 with a 24" in 06, the 30'06 really performs. The thing you have to watch out for with the 7mm Rem mag, is twist rate. Typical factory rifles offer the 7 rem mag in slower 9.25 to 9.50 twist rates. To stabilize higher bc bullets in the 7 Rem mag you need something with a 8" twist rate, With a 26" pipe. A standard factory barrel will shoot higher bc 162 and 168gr bullets just fine. My model 70 love's them. If I go to the 175 gr plus my 7mm Rem model 70 turns into a shotgun. The advantage with .30 cal's especially with the 06 is a 1" and 10" twist rate will stabilize a vast majority of hunting bullets. Im not poo-pooing the 7 Rem mag. These are things Ive noticed because I own both. Both cartridges have their advantages over each other. You have to be aware of both cartridges nuances. You have to know their limitations. Handload vs factory.
great honest video I like and subscribe
🤠 FYI: Horneday Has Just Released The 25 Creedmore and a 138 Grain Bullet For The 25 Caliber! 🥳
i am made in 1962 also. i get 3000 fps 175 gr sierra. 68 gr imr 7828. 24" barrel. I like the 30 06 also. I cant tell any recoil difference, my length of pull is correct, and rifle built on p14 action. its an old recipe from 25 yrs ago.
With a Dial-the-range scope a bullet's BC isn't as important anymore , but you've got to have used enough gun to upset the bullet when it gets there.
It is a valid comparison at the muzzle, however, the 7RM (.284 Remington Magnum 😊), is easily outperformed downrange with the drag conversation
Great assessment!
In addition to this, the 7 has good sectional density, and excellent BC in modern bullets. It is versatile. The .300win is the biggest challenger.
For top loads 7RM / .300 win, with nolser using each calibers highest BC RDF bullets, the 7RM beats out the 300 every step of the way after about 600yds regarding velocity and drop and drift. The 300 maintains 15-10% more energy in trade all the way. This was out to 3000yd. This using 175gr / 210gr respectively, plotted on a calculator.
By switching to copper you can gain BC with less bullet grainage, pushing those pills faster yet.
There is a lot to like about 7 & 300.
I'll stay with my 7mm
Never ever let me down.
Make your own choices but, the '06 can be pushed far past book max. Saami specs it 5000 psi less than the 270. There's no reason for that in today's guns. Obviously, look for pressure along the way, like all times, but you can expect much more.
The numbers I used were going up to 65k psi
Is the 7mm a bone stock over the counter rifle with a factory chamber? Or does it have a snazzy chamber custom built for speed?
SAAMI spec 7 mag with a 26 inch barrel
The 7 shooting a 160 grainer at 3000 fps is really the way to go. Elk, mulies and pronghorn disagree. 🤠
My favorite bullet is the discontinued 160-grain Nosler CT Partition. The "bridge" on those was moved just a bit forward, allowing for a bit more retained weight, and the tip was a bit pointier. I have a few squirreled away.
The 7mm mag was designed to have the same recoil as the 06. Thec300 win mag has more recoil. The 06 is over 100 years old and doing good for a old lady
the biggest problem with the 7RM is the terrible variance in chamber sizes. I've owned a few, and it's like they couldn't decide on the correct dimensions, so they just fooled around and made em really big.
Great video good information 👍
Thanks James
I must be an anachronism because I have an early manufacture model 700 in .30'06.
Very nice
Keep in mind when using nickel plated bullets , you can run into problems when using non plated ones. Nickel fouling can be removed by abrasives ONLY! Very bad stuff.
7mm Rem Mag is way better... not even close.
i give the 7MM mag mad props, but hate all MM cart....i would maybe buy one if it was called the .275 mag....
Just think of it as the the 284 Rem mag
For whitetail 30-06 150gr core-lokt
I’ll stick with the 7 mm rem mag.
150grn Hornady SST for my BAR Safari II in 30-06 is a hammer on whitetail every time........
I bet it is
My Critera...every comparison should be with a 22" barrel in a repeating rifle.
Myself, In our West slope Rockies area a long onerous rifle is worse than a few extra ounces of rifle weight.
Y'know..the 30/06 rules.
Haha
BAR Mark II Safari is a fantastic rifle for that criteria.......
I can't live without my 30-06's
It doesn't matter what you use if you can hit what you are aiming at.
Okay...
Twist rate will come into play
Tking only the "s[ecs" for the 7mm Rem Mag you will be fooled. THe SAAMI spec was as it states a average max presure and was derived becasue earloy reamers were notoriously out of spec so the average had to be lower to avoid the rifle makers mistakes. THe 30-06 is rated at 60000k the Rem at 61000k. Even though based off same case as 300 win and all standard belted magnums at 64000 - 65000k. When loaded for own rifle it regularly can easily push a 175gr to 3100 nd 195 to 3000+ if magazine length can accomadate.
Thanks for watching
i shoot 7mm rem mag from my sako AIII Carbine 480 mm barrel so it is like 19 inches, i reloaded it up to 960 ms 3150 fps with 150gr nosler e-tip. i handload and use reloading tool, i got to say that with biased view you get really strange takes on physics ! if the cartridge is bigger then you have more power period ! you have to have a little bit different brain to start to wonder that 1000hp 10 l engine is as powerful as 2000 hp 20 l engine. i can put this all to the reloading software but we all know that 30-06 with 19" barrel wont shoot even 800 ms 2640 fps with that short of a barrel with a same bullet. it just has a much smaller engine.
ps N570 is wrong powder for the 175 grn bullet i have reloaded it and the sweet spot was N560 or Norma MRP much much faster with a 26 inch barrel 🤣
Thanks for watching
Good video
Every hunter should own rifles chambered in both of these cartridges.
Why?
@@Westerner_ So they can experience 2 of the greats
Absolutely not necessary at all
@@llamawizard owning more than one rifle isn't necessary at all for most but more is a lot more fun
@@Accuracy1st so, we are in agreement then.
Ok, I won't be buying a 7mm Rem Mag with a 24" barrel lol. Currently looking at going 6.8 Western with the Seekins Precision Havak PH2 that has a 24" barrel that should be Ok.
338 win mag with 180 gr at over 3200 fps..308 norma case is similar to 7mm mag.
I own both. 😊😊
That's the way to do it
I'm a handloader, and you couldn't give me a 7mm RM!(Well, if it was given, I'd take it, but it would be gone soon)
Not a fan huh? What cartridge would you get?
@@ReloadingWeatherby If limited to 7mm, I would go 280 Rem, but I prefer the 30-06, with the 270 a close second. Most of my hunting is done with a 338 WM and heavy(ish) loads, and my best handloads are out of a 22-250(3 shots hidden under a dime at 100 meters) I am very intrigued with the 338-06, it might be ideal for where I live.