Pages with lots of panels often give either a "slow motion" or a montage effect which obviously has an impact on storytelling. I think another worthwhile comparison is to the role rhythm plays in music. We enjoy music because our brain rewards us for accurate pattern recognition, almost like solving a puzzle. If the beat is too simple, we get bored and tune the music out. If the structure of the music is too complex or random, we get frustrated and call it noise. If a song establishes a beat pattern, with say an accent on the four, do do do DA, do do do Da, do do do DA, the musician can then tease the brain by holding off the accent, creating anticipation and then an even greater reward do do do do, do do do DA! or mix it up by throwing in unexpected but delightful accents elsewhere do do do DA, do doDA do DA. Most people listen to the melody or lyrics of a song while the rhythm is felt. I feel like this pattern recognition/reward thing applies to panel structures in comics, yet I've never actually read it compared to music this way. This manipulation of expectations plays a part in why we experience catharsis even when reading something "sad" or "scary".
I think it does definitely depend on content, like the Hawkeye page I used for an earlier episode uses loads of panels to help dialogue beats, so I don't think that does slow mo or montage, but certainly in DKR with these two examples that definitely applies. And yeah! I always love the music example -- Samnee did that as an explainer for one of his pages in the Thor Creators Edition episode with him and it definitely works, like that final row on the first page throwing it off a little. - Hass
Yeah I forgot about talking heads, but that also has a rhythmic element with changing facial expressions. The music analogy isn't a perfect fit for all panel layouts but I think having an awareness of how the brain deals with patterns can help the artist more deftly manipulate the reader.
Fantastic video as always. I loved reading this and i was always surprised that the 16 grid layout of the pages never overwhelmed me once reading through it; now i know why.
Yeah I think if you see it as a unit of storytelling across the row it becomes a lot more bouncy to read, and it flows really well. It spreads out the dialogue as well (something I didn't talk about but might come up in another episode) so individual panels seem less dense. - Hass
I really love how The Walking Dead started using the 16 panel grid during the Whisperer War and then occasionally once or twice an issue. The one in today's issue really gave that scene a lot of power.
I think any structure that create a 4 part narrative uses a essay structure (intro, body, and conclusion) to make a point, and with things like the 16 panel grid this points can combine perfectly to creat a well told story. Amazing video as always
Yeah, I like that you can split it as well. Like you could have two "end"/"conclusion" panels if you wanted, or two intro panels or just two middle panels to fill out some of the body of it. Each row working as a unit of storytelling is really important, though, and so well done here! - Hass
Hey, could you talk a little bit about how Jeff Lemire does panels in Moon Knight? It's such a unique style that I have not really seen before. Love your videos, man!
Hey Hans! Yeah Greg Smallwood who draws that book is doing phenomenal work in Moon Knight. I love what he does with negative space in there. I'll definitely be doing an episode about it, for sure. - Hass
The page with the murder of the Wayne parents being murdered can be interpreted as being focused on Bruce and the killer, not the death of the parents, but I'd argue it's actually the opposite. it's kind of a variation of the old Hitchcock technique, where that which is hinted at, but not shown, becomes more powerful and evocative. the death of the parents, and the bullet leaving the barrel of the gun are never shown, which fits in with the experience of them being too traumatic for bruce's brain to face directly.
Matt W Cheese I see your point. It's a good example too, like the ear cutting off in Reservoir Dogs. I think we're making similar cases, but where we'd differ is that the page to me feels more about Bruce's relationship with death in the face of the thief as opposed to being specifically focused on the death of his parents being brutal. The fact Miller keeps bringing it back to Bruce's face and size would indicate that to me. But that's also the beauty of visual art, no interpretation is any more or less valid than any other -- we take from it what resonates most. That's why these things are so much fun! - Hass
yeah I suppose the effect of the page is the emotional effect of the killing, rather than the physical effect of it. the page really puts the reader in Bruce's POV.
Matt W Cheese I was half tempted to do an episode looking at a bunch of pages from different Batman comics that show the death of the parents and see how they all build it differently and for what effect and context. It must be one of the most drawn sequences in comics by now? - Hass
Awesome video, man! Loved every bit of it specially because TDK is a fantastic work in the medium and you're great at showing why! This channel is the best thing to have the words "strip" and "naked" on the internet! :D
Great video as always! Love TDKR and its art, and I didn't even notice the grid structure's importance to the context of scenes until now (I haven't read it in a LONG time). Can we look forward to more vids on classic comics?
Hey, would you consider talking about Miler and Jansen's paneling in their Daredevil? It always interested me having one long panel running from top to bottom, and all the action appearing on the other side, and I'd love to see some analysis. Love your channel
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Pages with lots of panels often give either a "slow motion" or a montage effect which obviously has an impact on storytelling. I think another worthwhile comparison is to the role rhythm plays in music. We enjoy music because our brain rewards us for accurate pattern recognition, almost like solving a puzzle. If the beat is too simple, we get bored and tune the music out. If the structure of the music is too complex or random, we get frustrated and call it noise. If a song establishes a beat pattern, with say an accent on the four, do do do DA, do do do Da, do do do DA, the musician can then tease the brain by holding off the accent, creating anticipation and then an even greater reward do do do do, do do do DA! or mix it up by throwing in unexpected but delightful accents elsewhere do do do DA, do doDA do DA. Most people listen to the melody or lyrics of a song while the rhythm is felt. I feel like this pattern recognition/reward thing applies to panel structures in comics, yet I've never actually read it compared to music this way. This manipulation of expectations plays a part in why we experience catharsis even when reading something "sad" or "scary".
I think it does definitely depend on content, like the Hawkeye page I used for an earlier episode uses loads of panels to help dialogue beats, so I don't think that does slow mo or montage, but certainly in DKR with these two examples that definitely applies. And yeah! I always love the music example -- Samnee did that as an explainer for one of his pages in the Thor Creators Edition episode with him and it definitely works, like that final row on the first page throwing it off a little.
- Hass
Yeah I forgot about talking heads, but that also has a rhythmic element with changing facial expressions. The music analogy isn't a perfect fit for all panel layouts but I think having an awareness of how the brain deals with patterns can help the artist more deftly manipulate the reader.
It never ceases to amaze me how tightly edited and interesting your videos are. Truly you are an inspiration to us all
Oscar J Stones haha thanks Oscar :)
- Hass
The first page foreshadows the whole story.
Yup!
- Hass
Fantastic video as always. I loved reading this and i was always surprised that the 16 grid layout of the pages never overwhelmed me once reading through it; now i know why.
Yeah I think if you see it as a unit of storytelling across the row it becomes a lot more bouncy to read, and it flows really well. It spreads out the dialogue as well (something I didn't talk about but might come up in another episode) so individual panels seem less dense.
- Hass
I really love how The Walking Dead started using the 16 panel grid during the Whisperer War and then occasionally once or twice an issue. The one in today's issue really gave that scene a lot of power.
I think any structure that create a 4 part narrative uses a essay structure (intro, body, and conclusion) to make a point, and with things like the 16 panel grid this points can combine perfectly to creat a well told story. Amazing video as always
Yeah, I like that you can split it as well. Like you could have two "end"/"conclusion" panels if you wanted, or two intro panels or just two middle panels to fill out some of the body of it. Each row working as a unit of storytelling is really important, though, and so well done here!
- Hass
I went from not being very keen on the 16-panel format to suddenly being sold on it. A very strong argument indeed, haha
Hey, could you talk a little bit about how Jeff Lemire does panels in Moon Knight? It's such a unique style that I have not really seen before.
Love your videos, man!
Hey Hans! Yeah Greg Smallwood who draws that book is doing phenomenal work in Moon Knight. I love what he does with negative space in there. I'll definitely be doing an episode about it, for sure.
- Hass
Greg Smallwood is a phenomenal artist!
The page with the murder of the Wayne parents being murdered can be interpreted as being focused on Bruce and the killer, not the death of the parents, but I'd argue it's actually the opposite. it's kind of a variation of the old Hitchcock technique, where that which is hinted at, but not shown, becomes more powerful and evocative. the death of the parents, and the bullet leaving the barrel of the gun are never shown, which fits in with the experience of them being too traumatic for bruce's brain to face directly.
Matt W Cheese I see your point. It's a good example too, like the ear cutting off in Reservoir Dogs. I think we're making similar cases, but where we'd differ is that the page to me feels more about Bruce's relationship with death in the face of the thief as opposed to being specifically focused on the death of his parents being brutal. The fact Miller keeps bringing it back to Bruce's face and size would indicate that to me. But that's also the beauty of visual art, no interpretation is any more or less valid than any other -- we take from it what resonates most. That's why these things are so much fun!
- Hass
yeah I suppose the effect of the page is the emotional effect of the killing, rather than the physical effect of it. the page really puts the reader in Bruce's POV.
Matt W Cheese I was half tempted to do an episode looking at a bunch of pages from different Batman comics that show the death of the parents and see how they all build it differently and for what effect and context. It must be one of the most drawn sequences in comics by now?
- Hass
DO IT!!!!!
Awesome video, man! Loved every bit of it specially because TDK is a fantastic work in the medium and you're great at showing why! This channel is the best thing to have the words "strip" and "naked" on the internet! :D
Hahaha -- maybe there's some counter argument to that but I'll take it :P
- Hass
Great video as always! Love TDKR and its art, and I didn't even notice the grid structure's importance to the context of scenes until now (I haven't read it in a LONG time). Can we look forward to more vids on classic comics?
Definitely. It always comes down to what's been taking my fancy recently, there's not much method to my madness to be honest!
- Hass
Hey, would you consider talking about Miler and Jansen's paneling in their Daredevil? It always interested me having one long panel running from top to bottom, and all the action appearing on the other side, and I'd love to see some analysis. Love your channel
Yeah... I'd definitely want to tackle some more Miller in the future, and that's a good one to take a look at.
- Hass
Dope analysis 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks!
Man can you increase the pace. It feels that the whole video could be compress in less than five minutes
Haha, feels free to speed up the video!
your content is very Good
Ah thanks man :) I've just got a good set of comics to work with!
- Hass
good stuff, keep it up
Cheers :D
- Hass
Your chanel should reach 1mil subcribes.
Haha, I'm always surprised it got past 1000. Very niche topics...