Copper Line Set Tube Corrosion and HVAC Refrigerant Leaks Explained!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- In this HVAC Training Video, I Show Examples of Formicary Copper Corrosion on HVAC Line Set Tubing Connected to a Mini Split Air Conditioner/Heat Pump. This System Leaked Almost All of The Refrigerant Out of These Pin Hole Leaks! I Explain the Causes of Corrosion and What Steps Can Be Taken to Try to Avoid New Systems From Leaking Several Years after the Installation! Nobody Wants This to Occur! Supervision is needed by a licensed HVACR Tech while performing tasks as Experience and Apprenticeship garners Wisdom and Safety.
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Information in this video is intended for educational purposes only. Any work related to the topics in this video should be performed by licensed technicians or by apprentices under the supervision of licensed technicians. AC Service Tech LLC is not responsible for any possible damages or injuries caused by the use or misuse of any information provided.
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The level of intelligence here on this channel is like no other. I’ll be installing a mini split I’m going to use all of these tips.
Craig is an encyclopedia of HVAC knowledge...
Don’t forget your permit
Not everywhere requires a permit.@CharlesAnsman
Doing it in NYC.
Thanks for another great video, Craig. Especially on a topic that doesn’t get much coverage.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you so much for bringing attention to this issue and explaining it so clearly! I've run into these tiny corrosion leaks repeatedly on systems using the white insulation, sometimes with very few signs of deterioration on the jacket, but yet with the black jacket line sets I've *never once* seen these leaks on even *bare copper with substantial patina* exposed by completely disintegrated black insulation. I wasn't sure if the white jacket line sets had inferior copper, or if the white insulation was causing a reaction, but now that I know I will immediately put your excellent tips to use!
What a great video about what is turning into a huge problem in our industry
Thanks for watching!!
Hi Craig. Watched one of your videos where you used the Hilmor pig gun. I watched you deburring the vapor line and then tapping out the debris. I'm sure I'm not the inventor of this although I've not seen it anywhere regarding HVAC lines, but what I do is stuff a rolled up piece of cloth inside the pipe by maybe 1/2 inch. This allows me to debur and not worry about the debris. When done, grab your needle nose and quickly pull out the cloth. The debris comes with it. Ex EHT guy here!
Thank you Craig.
A customer of ours has an older system that has some green discoloration on the lines going through the attic.
I made some repairs to the insulation while looking for leaks a couple of years ago.
If they're low on refrigerant this season, I'll recommend replacing the line set.
They spray foam insulated the underside of the roof to help cool the master bedroom, but this is now trapping humidity in that portion of the attic.
My main system has the foam rubber insulation. The original setup was deteriorated by the sun. I replaced it with new but then covered it with aluminum foil. The run is short, only a few feet from the unit to the house wall and pretty much out of sight. It has been that way for several years and no problem.
This information is pure gold!
Here is what I learned from my failed lineset foam. My installer didn't seal the ends. There was black all through the runs but all the failures were within several feet of the condenser. There was water full on flooding the lineset in the low spots but if it was 100% full there were no leaks. The leaks were at the condenser end where it was getting air. 100 feet of lineset and all the leaks on a 3 head unit were within a total of 8-9 from the end.
I just had a mini split heat pump installed last week.I was contemplating installing a hinged roof but now I will definitely do it.
Thanks Craig! It would be great if you make a video dedicated to the types of insulation used in Mini split and vrf/vrv systems.
He basicly just did in this video. Don't use the white stuff though, too risky.
Is it possible in this day and time that the copper is made as thin and cheaply as possible?
More money in the greedy, corporate executives pockets. More money for them to fly their biz jet around on family vacations.
That has always been a concern. It was an issue in the early to mid 1990s and occasionally since then.
I once installed a mini split the customer bought and the lineset was actually aluminum, the manufacturer had the ends near the flares taped in a copper colored tape to make it appear as if the lineset was actually copper.
i hope that manufactures start adapting better insulation or kits offered to combat this potential problem
Great video Craig....thanks for sharing
Great info thanks.
Would love to see video on deteriorated outdoor line set insulation vs replacing with new cost savings/ increased system capacity. Test. Thanks again
Learn something new in every video thank you
Very helpful. I'll check my systems this year. Thanks.
I love his videos. And thanks God he now has a channel in Spanish.
Thank you for watching my videos! I'm glad you have been enjoying the Spanish channel!
5-7 years is all the evaporators last. They all leak. It’s like refrigeration coils have come air conditioning.
You serious? 😂
I have noticed with other copper refrigerant lines in the same building that is 40 to 60 years old. The insulation could be cracked and split worn away exposing the old copper it’ll be green and they’ll be exposed water, but they will be no leaks on the original copper in all the buildings.
But only the new copper installed in these white insulation in the same buildings will be leaking.
So 40+-year-old copper in the old black insulation . That has been ripped into deteriorated and copper will be green and corroded in exposed areas throughout the building does not leak.
They persist on using the white insulation . And just attempt to do measures to keep the air and the water out of it that is futile.
It’s only a temporary stopgap because they’re using a product that naturally breaks down anyway in many situations .
Just like all the problems that re-created by trying to use a cheap product like aluminum, refrigerant lines that has literally bankrupt contractors . Because of marketing. $$$
Then there was that time they thought steel crimp connectors was a good idea, and then they developed leaks, literally crippling contractors and bankrupt them commercial jobs and ruining reputation of many contractors .
And now the big move towards a few manufactures have quick crimp connectors. Now that they’re over a decade old we’re starting to see the failures around the world. . Because they’re easy and marketing works really good. $$$$ they work great at first, but of course everyone that fails is always technician error. (“SO THE MANUFACTURER SAYS”)
Then they even discovered many failures were coming from just the imprinted name or identification marks on the side of a copper being placed under the O-ring was causing leaks.
Then, in some cases, the manufacturing process of the copper was not always perfectly round, and the thickness of the wall was sometimes uneven, and that was to be blamed. Because you cannot control the manufacturer of a copper.. technicians who are in a moving time, limited installation to even care or want to look or measure for such things.
But the one thing that never fails is a good silver braze.
Could quality thick-walled copper.
One of the things the manufactures representatives would brag about at the AHR when talking to them is that their copper did not have to be as thick as Mueller’s copper. Because they said their process for forming manufacturing, the tubing was so much superior that they can have thinner, copper..
And now we can see where that got us.
Can you see the pattern here? it all comes from marketing and manufacturers trying to make the cheapest product to market and push using least amount amount of materials to make the highest profit margin.
With the highest failure rate in the end.
Who cares if it’s not leaking the first year or five years does it make it end of system life towards 20 years plus ?
But by then those who made the money off, the products are long gone 💸💸💸🤣🏦
Great vid. I’m gonna have to seal my insulations now. Thanks.
This has been a problem going on 10 years or maybe even more now, but ive only ever seen it on the white insullated linesets, i stopped using it about 10 yrs ago and went back to armorflex. Never seen this issue with armorflex.
I have seen this probably 10x. EVERY single one was with the white lineset as you showed in the video. It ALWAYS occurs where the lineset is wet. I had one 2 years ago on a 3rd floor head and the lineset was trapped in a knee wall. Zero sunlight. I also saw this once in an underground conduit sleeve for a remote located condenser. Bubbling out of the flooded conduit end. I have NEVER seen this with a rubberized lineset. It also seems to be on linesets 3-7 years old in my experience. My personal opinion is that there is a chemical reaction with the specific foam chemistry
Be aware that water can travel in vapor form, e.g. fog, steam, etc. If water gets into any void in the insulation it may travel throughout the line installation. Do everything practical to exclude water or it's evaporative product.
The white polyethylene insulation corroded my minisplit lines. I bought new lineset made by mueller usa. Then I used the rubber foam insulation, two years and no issues.
Thanks, very helpful but a bit of a bummer.
Very informative
Craig, I wonder if there is a way to predict the breakdown of the insulation and time when to replace it. 🤔
Great I have one of my line sets in the ground and pretty sure that is a ticking time bomb.
Hi Craig ~ Would a chamfer bit commonly used for chamfering thru-holes in steel make a suitable sub for cleaning freshly cut copper tubing?
If a lineset has been in service for a few years already, will sealing the ends as shown help? Or just trap moisture and cause more problems?
Does the non rubberized styrofoam insulation work as well? Or should I go with the rubberized?
Thanks for the information!
Off subject, but I'm curious....is a home AC unit similar to a vehicle's, in that being low on freon can cause the compressor to not kick on? Great video!
Is there a recommended coating, for instance POR, that can be sprayed on the copper line set to prevent corrosion from occurring?
so we always use white linesets that are "UV rated" but they always seem to crack just like in the video
I'm assuming it's more related to climate that gets below freezing. Can we see such corrosion in Southern California?
Copped it on a unit over here in Australia, barely gets below 10C here in winter. That's probably like... 45F? Definitely occurs in weather that doesn't get too cold.
Great information. Thanks Craig. One question. What type of glue do you use to seal the seams on insulation?
MAKE A ONE VIDEO ON R32 CHARGING IN MINI SPLIT INVERTER AIR CONDITIONER, SUB HEAT, SUCTION PRESSURE, DISCHARGE PRESSURE AND STANDING PRESSURE.
can you trap refrigerant into outside unit in inverter mini split?
Yes a pump down is possible. We discuss all the step by step procedures in our Inverter Mini Split book
@@acservicetechchannel thanks ill check it out
Can applying paint or silicone grease on the line set help prevent this ?
The pipe insulation is included in the link(s)?
Are any lineset insulation UV protected?.. the isoclimar I notice has ba corrosion in the sun in a shorter period.
No they are not UV protected
Wrap that line sit outside with vinyl
White polyethylene isn't used by our company for those very reasons you showed
i live with this situation all the time I work in coastal area and the white line sets are terrible in a marine environment. You have to use the black insulation these manufactures need to rectify this immediately. It’s causing a nightmare for technicians and customers have to pay the price. btw fujitsu is not a great systems in general there 5 zone unit is good but it’s down hill after that.
Wasn’t it supposed to protect the line set 🤔 I want my money back. 💰
Here’s the fix people, ignore that white foam junk that came w minisplit go to Home Depot and spend $8 for the black big dog insulation.
People that install the white insulation line sets are hacks.
I dont belive that line set is correct size also.
mini-split, aka mini-sheet. great in theory, bad in real life because of cheap build quality and being over-complicated by complex build/electronics.
whilst I am still temped to install such garbage, something subconscious keeps telling me NOPE NOPE.
yes I have recommended said mini-splits for others, in residential and commercial settings. all small areas with with humidity/thermal output devices, beauty salons/open cooler/store fronts.
I dunno, they work well when done right. "Mini splits" are the main style of unit installed here in Australia in residential and light commercial. Sure, they have issues occasionally, but you do with all units.
Most of the issues we get are from critters getting into the PCB's, because it's a nice warm place to hang out. Then they inevitably fry themselves and usually take the board with them. That's the biggest downside I've seen. They could be better sealed.
Manufacturers could make a cover that this wouldn't happen but they are to cheap.
For fucks sake just by the one on the left, that’s been used for the last 50 fucking years. We don’t need a 30 minute video.
God forbid we learn something all great genius of the internet...wonder how this guy votes!