Mike, I watched the entire video. Despite what you said, it seems pretty clear to me that, as the title of the video suggests, the point of it was to compare "good metal" to "bad metal," using Dream Theater and Burzum to provide the paradigm examples respectively. I've been a black metal fan for ages, so I'm surely biased. Though I did relisten to each song in turn after watching your video, with an ear toward comparing them as objectively as possible. I tried to observe the way I was affected in each case. Here's what I came away with in the end. The Dream Theater song was alright -- certainly not bad. Yet I have to say, it just didn't "grab" me the same way Burzum did, and always has. (Not that Burzum is even the best example of great black metal.) To try to articulate what I mean by that, let me put it this way: I felt that Dream Theater was playing AT me through most of the song. Sure there were exciting and interesting moments, but the absorption never lasted long. At times, what they were conveying sort of felt like, "look at how sophisticated we are" -- which was distracting. I couldn't help but call the overall motive into question. Beyond that, the production was almost too crisp and perfect. It lacked that sort of organic quality which brings great music to life. That was my experience anyway. By contrast, good black metal is often crafted/produced in such a way as to feel distant, yet enticing. It's a bit like hearing the plaintive cries of an animal in the woods, if that analogy can work. It's primal, and it works on the imagination. And I think it's very much intended to work that way. I find myself more readily and fully absorbed into a soundscape which feels like it's alive and breathing -- as if I'm being consumed by the music itself, more so than the other way around. Also, who cares if it's simple? (I'm sure you've heard that before.) It's true though: simple doesn't always mean boring, just as "more complex" doesn't always mean more interesting. Some songs are simple; some are complex. It can be a good or a bad thing either way. It just depends on the particular instance in question. It depends on what your measure for complexity is as well. I find the Burzum song to be quite complex, albeit in different ways. There is a lot of black metal out there which is complex by your standards as well: modulations, time variation, the whole 9 yards. Some of it's awesome. Some of it sucks. What matters ultimately is the final product as a whole, and that can impact different listeners in different ways. Not to say that the value of music is entirely subjective. There is, however, an undeniably subjective element. Just because you have trouble positioning yourself in the right place to resonate with it, doesn't mean it's objectively terrible, or worthless garbage. That's a pretty radical thing to imply, and obviously not true. If you don't mean it that way, I have to say it definitely comes off that way at times. Yes, I took some time out of my day to write this -- it's my day off. Just figured I'd play the same game. Your content is enjoyable and entertaining for the most part. Keep it up by all means man. You might just consider how fair you're being at times, or the extent to which your own biases might be running the show. Reigning that in some might honestly help your channel fare a little better. All in good spirit. Best wishes.
I respect your comment and your thoughts, but I find it rather the other way around, almost entirely completely the opposite of what you're saying. The reason I can't resonate with a lot of black metal is for the reasons you've stated about Dream Theater, at least from the two songs in this video. It feels more like, to me, it's trying to immerse you in clean, effective manners that feel like they guide you through a told story. My problem with black metal, generally, is the exact opposite, where it sounds often like it's blasting and trying to tell you how it is, not to also show you and take you on the journey with it. Now, I won't lie, I don't know a great deal of black metal, but I've heard a lot of it through friends and family, and it just doesn't sit in the same way with me as a lot of dream theater songs do. Hell, my favorite band is slipknot and that feels like more of a ride to me than a lot of what I've heard with black metal. I don't exactly have the words to explain why I, myself, don't enjoy Black Metal, but what I can say is the overall message from not only you, but the video as well, is that, yeah, there's no definitive example of "good," or "bad' music, as in the end it really is all about how it feels to you and what resonates with you, not anyone else. Been really enjoying this channel recently for its look on music as a whole, and enjoying the accounts of a legitimate metal guitarist's thoughts on not only metal as a genre, but music in general. I enjoyed your account of it, too, and think that an important thing to remember is that music is subjective, and it's nice to see so many people coming to the same conclusions. Have a nice day you guys! Edit: I did wanna say that I think he did an excellent job. Sure, he may have implied that the music is "bad," but that's his opinion regardless. He does mention that it's impossible to truly say whether any music can be considered good or bad, and I honestly think that's enough. If anything I respect him more for making a video about his own opinion, because Lord knows opinions on the internet are a dangerous thing.
@@thomasthefascisttankengine4694 Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can understand where your coming from. I recognize that black metal isn't for everyone. It even took me a while to come around to it -- I think it's very much an acquired taste for most people. It's certainly not as immediately palatable as many other forms of music. If I remember right, for me, it was a gradual process of hearing just one or two songs in the beginning which struck me in a different kind of way. From there, I began to explore a little more, and noticed I was hearing similar aspects in other black metal. Eventually, I found myself completely captivated; it just took some time for me to receive it in the right way, and to be able hear what's valuable in it. Once I did, however, it was like an entire world was opened for me, and I was able to experience an artform which I had never appreciated in the past. As a genre, it's very unique, and it offers things which I've not found in any other genre of music, especially metal. Though I can still understand the aversion which many people experience. There is a lot of variety within black metal, and some of it certainly can be relentless. I've come to appreciate even that stuff as well, so long as it's not substituting for a lack of depth and creativity. Much of it, however, is not so relentlessly blasting -- or if it is, then at least not merely so, or not for that sake only. Check out "Dawn" for instance: Swedish black metal band from the 90's. Those guys are extremely artful, and, I imagine, much more subtle than most would expect who've not had much exposure. Like other bands of the era, they stared out as a death metal band, but soon transitioned to a different sound, & helped to pioneer the genre. Their first real black metal album "Nær sólen gar niþer for evogher," especially, is something special in my opinion. (The first song retains something of a death metal feel, though everything following is really something else.) Setherial is another innovative band. Their first album "Nord" might even be thought of as a "prog metal" album in some sense. It contains some significant progressive elements at least, in the production and composition. Abigor manages to create some of the best atmosphere I've ever heard from any metal band. Their first and third full-lengths are my personal favorites. And just because, I'll go ahead and plug "Where Only the Season's Mark the Path's of Time" by Thy Primordial. That's a great example of a relentless, blasting sort of album, which is no less melodic and creative. And there are so many more. I think a lot of this stuff is just difficult for people to come by, because it's never had widespread exposure outside the niche, and it tends to get buried in the underground. But there's a ton of great stuff out there, which I think is often overlooked, or gets a bad wrap because of certain other, more famous bands which I don't need to name. As a whole, I think black metal often gets misunderstood or misrepresented. I wonder if more people might come to appreciate it to a greater degree if they could push through the initial jarring effect? Though I definitely agree that music requires listeners to truly be what it is, and my perception of it might just be me. I agree too that I was probably a little harsh on Mike in my original comment. I've since checked out more of his content, and I agree that he does a great job. He at least makes arguments to support his positions on things, & I respect that for sure. I wanted to mention also that, overall, I think Dream Theater is great, and most of the time I would rather listen to them than a lot of other stuff. On a final note, Rush has always been one of my all-time favorite bands. Cheers!
Dream theater might be too much. Old deathcore is my fave like winds of plague has heavyness to it and its not completely filled with noise it has pauses and melodies which just add to the anticipation. U can really get into it
@@thomasthefascisttankengine4694 Other way round. Dream Theater is completely soulless music. It's what happens when people proficient at the instruments come together and try to create a song despite lacking songwriting ability.
He really dosent get the point of black metal. couldn't he atleast do a band somewhat closer to what he's comparing Burzum to??? Or atleast do actually bad metal band instead like 5 finger death punch
Black metal: a genre made in rebellion to all clean aspects of metal Prog metal: a genre taking the technical, flashy, and clean aspects of metal to their fullest extent. Two very hard things to compare.
@@BlasphemousVerses I love both these two genres, tho. And don't think that all prog artists are good tho. There are so many Djent bands that sucks, but there are also so many Djent artists that actually make eargasmic music. So, what is Mike's reason for calling black metal as garbage is what I don't understand. There are both good and bad examples of black metal.
black metal: school shooters surf rock prog metal: wankers that are anything but progressive because they all sound the same and they all sound like shit black is still good though, and also had a clear evolution through the years, with three different waves of good and original bands
I'm hearing a lot of stuff I'd like in Burzum if it didn't sound like the whole band was recorded on one $20 room mic with the gain cranked all the way up. Is there any black metal that actually has good audio engineering, or is sounding neigh-unlistenable the whole schtick? Because if it's the latter... I'm inclined to agree with Mike here. And I don't usually do that.
@@TheJoaovicente right on man, I'll check it out. I'm usually a doom/stoner metal guy so the dissonant-ish chord compositions definitely catch my ear, and it seems like Black Metal really leans into that listener discomfort.
@@CraigKeidel I heard blut aus nord is clean sounding but I can’t confirm. Dissection and rotting Christ also have clean production. Maybe Peste noire, if you stay away from the first 2 albums (even though the first is arguably their best). I don’t like harakiri for the sky, but maybe you do, very clean sounding.
Now you are obligated to do Good Jazz vs Bad Jazz Edit: Why are my most liked comments always the ones i spent the least amount of time and effort writing? Jk thnx guys
Right? This guy is literally judging black metal by it's technicality and production value and comparing it to fucking prog. All of his points would be reasonable if he was just explaining why he doesn't like this particular song but stating that it is an objectively bad song just goes to show that this guy does not understand black metal. Talking about intolerance of fans of other music genres towards metal lol.
@@creativeperson5858 Just like metalcore was an embarrassment to metal? People used to hate on metalcore but I never jumped on the bandwagon tried to discredit the artists even though I don't even listen to metalcore. It's the same with black metal now, I don't like it either but that doesn't mean that I constantly have to hate on it. Black Metal is not an embarrassment for metal and it played a pretty big role in the evolution of metal, shove your elitist opinion up your ass.
Honestly, I think this guy is complimenting black metal. He said it sounds like utter shit and garbage. The highest honor given to a black metal musician.
@@lotsapasta0858 I mean, I’ve heard black metal I liked, mostly stuff that wasn’t pure black metal. I listened to this obscure band called Lustravi for a while that was basically all the generic, somewhat death metal-ish ceremonial black metal I needed. Their sound was pretty crude, but at least you could hear the bass, and there was some real songwriting. There’s also a cool Irish band called Mortichnia that basically plays hopeless blackened doom metal and whose album was produced by James Kelly from post-black metal band Altar of Plagues, which I’ve also listened to. I’ve listened to Deafheaven’s Sunbather because hipsters wouldn’t shut up about it, and it was kinda interesting. I’ve listened to Vektor, which is basically blackened progressive thrash metal, and their album Terminal Redux is one of the best metal albums I’ve ever listened to. In short, I think I know what black metal sounds like, but I happen to find it much more interesting when it’s mixed with other things. Relatively generic flavors of it just aren’t my thing. Also, I think it’s disingenuous to act like Burzum was just one edgy kid’s project when it was really influential and has fans to this day. Varg burning a church and murdering his bandmate was essential to popularizing black metal. Burzum is not, I dunno, an abandoned shit-tier crunkcore project. It’s worth analysis and criticism.
@@lunchb0x1986 To not be ignorant and biased. You can't make an argument if you don't understand the side you arguing against, literally one of the most basic concepts in writing. Though, judging you at face value, you don't seem like the type of person who was paying attention to these things in writing, because you wouldn't have made that comment.
@@thecosmicpallbearer It was self defense, even though he had to travel several miles out of his way to get to Mike. He thought Mike was going to kill him. Lol. 😆 😆 😆 😆
I already watched the whole thing mike even tho it came out 1 minute ago and the video is 11 minutes long and i gotta say i disagree with every point you made
I think that you disagree with the subjective points in the video, but about the technical music theory points (intervals, tensions, chord progressions, rhythmic patterns, melodies, harmonizations, etc), they were all pretty accurate. It's like if you were trying "Music theory is wrong, I'm right". If we just focus on music theory, there is a vas difference in usage of music resources between both songs.
david viteri. 1) Dream Theatre make good music and heres why 2) Burzum make bad music and here’s why 3) profit 4) Bunch of morons who clearly didn’t listen to the video and heard Mike say it’s production is bad and all they heard after that was white noise
So basically... Burzum sucks at writing Dream Theater songs, whereas Dream Theater are great at writing Dream Theater songs. What an astounding conclusion.
@@malteekholm7411 I guess if your aesthetic is to simulate a Fallout 76 bug then Burzum's got you covered, but aesthetic is not an excuse for bad mixing.
@Xx Cicerons xX Dude you have Bonded By Blood as a profile pic. I dont think you could tell the difference between a poem and a shit stained door at you local 7-11 with a phone number carved into it , promising for a good time .
here's a radical take: both Dunkelheit and Panic Attack are great songs, better than what most people in the comments are capable of creating. Some black metal may be simple, but actually having the thought to create it is something else. It's not as typically derivative as say, pop.
Mike: Making top-tier shitstorm inducing thumbnail Also Mike: Pls dont make shitstorm in the comments before watching video Ok, let's see where it goes.
que? ele literalmente analisou a tecnica, a teoria e o felling da musica cara! btw ele nem comparou os dois diretamente, ele usou a discrepancia pra dizer q ambos são diferentes mas ainda são metal... lol
@@Canalbiruta não teve revisão de "teoria". o objetivo de black metal é completamente diferente que o de prog. "feeling" não significa literalmente nada btw(todo mundo usa a palavra do jeito que quer).
@X D Listen to these songs- Gorgoroth-Prosperity and beauty (live at wacken),Sign of an open eye. Rotting Christ-666,Devadevam Bathory-The lake Nagaroth-Seven tears are flowing to the river Thy light-In my last mourning Mgla-Exercises in futility 5
@@mariovomhof2775 You definitely are not wrong. Black metal fan base can be very annoying but there are a lot of guys that enjoy black metal and still have a very open mind
i think, a fairer comparison would be good black metal vs bad black metal, ok good prog vs bad prog. Those subgenres are too different to be compared imho
Yes, totally different aesthetics. Prog metal is trying to be progressive in some sense - it needs to have some complexity to it, be it time signature changes, complex rhythms, complicated structure, complicated harmonies, overall technicality, some kind of "I didn't see that coming" moment. Basically, it's taking the basic "sound of metal" and applying more complicated composition techniques to it. Black metal is nothing like that - it's more about creating a dark and brutal mood, and the compositional complexity is totally irrelevant to the genre (in prog metal I would say the compositional complexity is pretty much the most important thing - it is what makes prog prog).
@Nature Revenge What is the message of black metal? What do think it is? I think it's a bunch of cringey goons screaming about how much they hate Christ. Get a life and listen to real music.
@@AmIBeef Black metal has a higher and much more complex message than hating christ, at least early Norwegian black metal like burzum. Varg and his "goons" did what they did to preserve the history of Norway, they had alot of pagan beliefs and most of them just used satanism as a front. They did what they believed was sending a message, showing that the old ways still exist. If you want to do more research on this check out the art project "Sons of Odin" or the documentary until the light takes us.
Me! There music is so epic and I love it, but they can also dial it back and create some really raw sounding metal (train of thought). I just admire their ability to sound so different in all their albums yet have a very particular dream theater-esque sound. I love them. Definitely one of my favorite bands
for me the appeal of burzum, especially "Dunkelheit" is the feeling to completly zone out. It's a very athmosperic song. Of course it's no fancy very complex masterpiece.
I completely understand your arguments however technicality in metal is hard to compare with burzum. Varg himself has stated that burzum was a movement against technical music
Much like the card I be to Eminem one he did The point of metal is to be technical and also pushing boundaries if you're just pushing boundaries then you're not being metal
This is an unfair comparison because the songs you chose are ones you already have strong feelings for or against. In order for this to be more accurate, you should have chosen two songs that were relatively new to you. I personally love both prog and black metal
@@GoldFellaTim cause he is saying a fact? Indeed it's not they. Indeed BM including Burzum are anti-music theory acts. He said nothing offensive. Open your mind before you open your mouth.
@@dvir12345 facts. I’m not a snob and prog is my favourite genre, people do like to tell me why it sucks but I don’t know why anyone here can’t just like their genres without bashing someone else.
No, that is said because you're thinking over feeling, doesn't take away the fact that some music is just bad and the even if you don't think about the theory you're gonna like it
All you said was true. It does not mean Burzum is unenjoyable though. I like this track for the exact reason you hate it, I like the horrible mix, the droniness and the repetition. Because it makes the listener work for his enjoyment and his understanding of the song. The listener must use his imagination and his culture to draw something from the music. And it's true for most Black Metal music. If these tracks were painting, Panic Attack would be an academic painting, something very clear and realistic. Dunkelheit would be a painting from the Impressionism or Surrealism movement, where all is vague, and you have to guess what is depicted. Both can be enjoyable.
Let me put it how I see it: Panic Attack is a very well put together theme park where you come in and it takes your breath with all these amazing elements and moments like: "wow, look at that, oh, and this, and holy shit, that's awesome!" All while it being comfortable and clear to understand. Dunkelheit is a big ole Norwegian snowy valley. It's so empty, it's so cold, snow is smashing you in the face (the bad production), but the view is so beautiful, soul-screeching and atmospheric that it makes for an unusual experience which can be enjoyed if you take it all in as not a purely metal song, but an atmospheric song that's also metal. All that being said, I get your points and understand them, it definitely does take a specific type of preson to be able to enjoy something that monotounous and badly produced.
It all points on wether we should just let ourselves be taken by the experience of hearing, or overanalyzing the piece of music that is presented to us...
Too many blast beats in black metal for me. Just drum like a normal person, not an epileptic centipede. No offense towards actual epileptics, but I think that is an apt analogy
@@unholydiver1095 But then what is good music then. It depends on what you get out of it. To me personally music is all about the emotional response I get from it and black metal dose that for me, its something not ment to sound comfortable to listen to and sometimes it's done shit and other times it's dose it just right.
“Now one of my favorite Dream Theater songs, Panic Attack...” I cant help but feel the biaseness in this episode. I mean I feel like this is just beating a dead horse of things Mike does and doesn’t like in music.
@Dragon Ball fans can't read it's just his opinion of what makes good music. You have your own opinions about music too. Also, He didn't say either was bad metal... Clearly, you didn't finish the video. Also, There's nothing wrong with being a dream theater fan.
@@lukasabcdefg5606 Do you feel how the song kinda keeps edging on and on in a suffocating kind of way? That's a panic attack. The more you feel like you're panicking, the more you'll suffocate into extra panic.
Varg started making music because he was tired of the over-produced and technical metal music that was being released in the 90s. He even said that the leads on this album are "anti-leads," as they are easier to play than the riffs. If you don't like it, it did it's job. And let me tell you, no matter what anyone tells me, a walk in the forest with Filosofem in the headphones is a transcendent experience.
It isn't fair to compare the two songs using musical theory, because the objective of Dunkelheit is creating atmospheric and dense ambient, and Panic Attack a talent showcase and a badass song. One of the things that make the Burzum song appealing is the "bad" mixing, the distorted and distant shouts, the loud drums... Is what makes the song a classic, creating a scary and misterious vibe. So, my point is you shouldnt compare the two songs in the same away, it's like comparing musically orchestral music to lo-fi indie. It doesn't make sense. So, when it comes to differente genres of metal, just listen to what you like, because it's hard to musically compare subgenres. I actually like your channel and I'm subbed to it, but this recent wave of Good vs Bad that you've been putting out has, in my opinion, some inconsistencies.
I have never been able to put my finger on it so well, but now I know how to describe atmospheric BM to people: it plays the same role as LOFI in electronic music and everybody knows what lofi is.
@@andreasfrost-blade4689 He shouldn't have made the comparison in the first place. He should have compared 2 prog metal songs or 2 black metal songs. Comparing Prog to black metal is apples to oranges
Pranav that’s basically what he says, both songs are good representations of metal and you can’t compare them so while someone may have an opinion that one song is better than the other they are both good metal songs. He didn’t make a comparison he made a straw man comparison to detail why one should not make comparisons like this.
Man , keep this in mind for the god sake. Being technically superp doesn't mean it's more listenable than less technical songs. I don't mean specifically these 2 songs.
@@lester9859 well... i picked up before the analisys and... i was bored as fuck at the end, and was 7 minutes. octavarium is 24 minutes and i can't even fell that, it fells more like 4 when it ends.
Chris Ian. Except Mike knows what he is talking about. He’s not using fancy words he is using proper words. I didn’t absolutely shit on Mike for not liking DragonForce or AC/DC I took his opinion and could see where he was coming from and sort of agreed with them but still enjoy the bands. Black Metal fans just disagree altogether and say he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
@@jesterinadeck_2980 I don't even listen to black metal except for a few bands like Emperor and Dissection (which are on the verge of being a swedish death metal band).
@@wiggy009 It has atmosphere. Many of the bands he worships lack that. And yeah the production is horrible, obviously on purpose (and I'm not sure it would've sounded better with better production) but that plays a huge role in how that song sounds. To you it may sound like absolute crap and that's okay, but that's just your opinion, man. And that guy states it like it's some kind of a fact, while it isn't. I for example don't like DT at all, and to me their vocalist sounds like he's getting his scrotum pierced while singing, but I won't deny their strengths as musicians. It's just their music doesn't speak to me.
Yeah its sad. I dont care if he is a piece of shit or if he isnt, I dont care if his views are racist or whatever, I couldnt care less, but TH-cam banning and censoring controvertail content, now that shit scares me to no end.
@@berserker8884 TH-cam is a corporation and this site is their property. It's quite simple. So they can do whatever fvck they want. Including bannig his fucked up content, my comments, your comments etc. If you are constantly breaking their rules, you're out. Nothing more, nothnig less. I don't get why people still think that TH-cam must tolerate everything.
Honestly. Some music is not about the production value or technical ability. Adding better production and technical wankery to BM would not enhance appeal to emotion in the slightest. It makes Mike come off as someone who doesn't get the emotional aspects of music.
@@Bartholomule01 i love Mike, Black metal is not my favourite genre, but as i said it gives you that feeling, especially to us Northern Europeans, so Americans might not appreciate it the way we do, as well as i don't appreciate Asian and African metal!
TheNthMouse i really had no interest in hearing mikes pseudo intellectual opinion today, it gets annoying how much he dogs on anything that isnt dream theater or steve vai. Didnt care to hear his reasoning.
varg playing a kids piano in prison is still better than john petrucci "wanky wanky bend bend bend sweep picking 16/65 time signature custom musicman sweep picking, yes i smoke weed and watch rick n morty" stupid solos
yeah got to listen burzum and was like "yeah i don't hate it... but boring as hell" and i love me some atmosphere music. to be honest i like other black metal bands more than varg stuff.
In my humble opinion.. DT,’s “Panic Attack” is generally lifeless and without charisma. The Burzum track, however.. despite the simplicity and dog water production.. definitely has charisma and life to it. I know I’m sounding absurd, but it is what it is…
The burzum track is literally just “noise” at least in comparison to panic attack which literally tells a story and has a full on theme throughout the song along with very catchy rhythms lol
@bobbyflynn6251 i don´t feel much as a viking listening to black metal... but holy hell heilung makes me want to take swords and bows to hunt animals in the forest lol
black metal listeners want something to make them feel like they are in a different dimension.For example a cold foggy scandinavian forest. Dunkenheilt is the perfect example of it All im trying to say is that black metal has a certain doomy, scary and cold ATMOSPHERE and thats what most black metal listeners and metalheads in general, want. They dont want to hear someone playing very complicated and technical riffs with overproduction for 10 minutes straight because they find it nonsensible and boring. this is just my opinion on this subject and of course im one of those black metal listeners i mentioned earlier otherwise i wouldnt have an opinion on why we like black metal more that prog.
@@bemersonbakebarmen It's about Execution, Emotion and atmosphere. Varg composed dunkelheit with cheap equipment in order to make an old, dark and dreadful atmosphere. It's intentional. Behemoth and Dimmu Borgir have great production and we love them too.
If you wanna feel like you're in a cold foggy Scandinavian forest, might I recommend The Devil And The Almighty Blues? Because that doesn't make me reach for a screwdriver to shove in my ears.
BEast Mortuary. Production sucks, no meaning to the music other than be evil/hate everything, vocals are terrible, instrument is some of the most basic stuff, mixing is terrible, and Varg is a piece of shit. I’ve said it before at least when some modern pop band makes bad music they are still like able decent people. I doubt Varg is the only psychopath in Black Metal. It’s probably filled with it. If anyone says they hate Black Metal, Black Metal fans just go to the scape goat of “You just don’t understand it” or “That’s what they were going for”. Mike doesn’t care why they sound the way they do if they sound bad to him they sound bad to him. Except Black Metal should not be appreciated especially not Burzum. Most if not all of the people defending Black Metal just repeat the same thing over and over again. This just means they have no real defense against why the music they listen to is good. I have an open mind hell there are modern rap and modern pop songs I actually enjoy listening to and im a metal head. So don’t think I’m just some kind of close minded individual who only likes one genre. If there is one genre that I have so far not found a single good song in its Black Metal. Death Metal is better because at least the vocals are tolerable and the instrumental is actually good. Maybe I’m being to bias because Dunkleheight is the epitome of literal dog shit that was consumed by Hitler who was then cremated and someone injected his ashes into both of Hillary Clinton’s parents.
@@jesterinadeck_2980 I see you know nothing of black metal other than Burzum. I listen to black metal most of the day (and I listen to a lot of genres), and none of it second wave nonsense with bad production value (some do, but it's on purpose and it fits the melodies well). Most of the black metal released after the 2000's has been very consistent on this. And Black Metal itself has a lot of subgenres of its own, DSBM, atmospheric, folk and the list goes on. The fact that I'm even taking the time to reply to someone who knows nothing about the sub-genre he or she is hating on is because I've seen posting bs everywhere under this video. And let me remind of you something, music and art to its extend, is a subjective matter. If you don't know what that means, I'll gladly explain it to you.
I used to think Black Metal sucked too... but then I discovered “Secrets of the moon” and it opened my mind to the genre. Lots to it that I didn’t even know about... I also like the “black and roll” scene.
Should look into Forest of Stars and Cult of Fire. Greek black metal is completely different from Nordic black metal, as it's not going for the lofi/atmosphere. Rotting Christ is one band to listen to.
Bradley Swanson. If Black Metal has different vocals (actually good vocals) I would understand how people could enjoy it. Secrets of the moon - Veronicas Room is actually decent Secrets of the moon - Carved in Stigmita is just awful. Black Metal just sounds like noise to me and many. It sounds like they just throw their instruments around and the singer swallows razor blades then begins to sing. Black Metal (the bands that sound like Burzum) is really for edgy people who will probably grow up to be serial killers.
I just love how RAW Black Metal is. I think if you wanted to pit a black metal song to a Dream Theater song. You shoulda went with something by Immortal. Atleast they're technically proficient and have a way better production compared to the one man band Burzum.
@@conormurphy4328 How so? Because it isn't time signature wanking and extremely over produced to the point it sounds mechanical? Also the vocals in Dream Theater suck ass.
Ah yes comparing the genre created out of spite of how technical and clean metal was getting to one of the most technical genres of metal, makes a lot of sense
You don't get to make a video based entirely on that shit comparison, then cop out at the end saying "by the way this isn't a fair comparison", you're not absolved of the shit critiques you made.
@@basserman the critiques were about technicalities and why he doesn't like black metal, while also showing why he likes dream theater, did he said that dt is good metal and burzum is bad metal? no the video was actually about how dumb trying to argue this is.
@@basserman what he said at the end of the video. Ppl keep asking him for a good vs bad metal, and like he said, there's no such thing as bad metal because both are metal with distinct characteristics and the only thing he can say that is good or bad is production, technicalities and arrangement. The rest is personal opinion and taste.
@@C0reyTaylor8 Your opinion is trash. Sound quality makes the biggest difference in Metal. It makes the biggest difference in music in general. If this wasn't objectively the case then production, mixing and mastering wouldn't be a thing. Its one thing to say that one can like terrible quality if the music itself is good but to say that it doesn't matter is retarded.
@@libertyprime3482 I never said sound quality doesn't matter, I merely stated that it's not as important (to me) when comparing two different metal songs/bands/albums. I don't really care about how "clean" the instruments sound, it's more about the overall mix and song structure.
@@VeteranCapybara if u dont like dunkelheit, i highly recommend a little earlier Burzum, these albums: aske, Burzum, hvis lyset tar oss, det som engang var
I am not a fan of Black Metal but I do I actually like Dunkelheit. Dunkelheit is one of the very few Black metal songs I do like and it is purely because of the repetitiveness. I find it very relaxing and found myself coming back to it whenever I needed to focus on work. Personally I found it to be good background music to clear my mind and to focus on whatever I am working on.
If Dunkelheit sounds extremely raw, that's because that's the sound Varg was going for with that album; he wouldn't have used the worst microphone he could find for vocals otherwise. Not fair to claim a song is inferior in quality for not sounding polished when that was never the intention.
Dream Theater and all those "look how many notes I can cram in a single song with as many different time signatures as possible" bands bore me to death.
@@raregrimebeats1352 Fair enough, but Im rarely going to watch concerts as compared to listen to the music. I think Concerts and listening to Music are very different experiences.
Sometimes I wish could understand musical structure but then see the torture that these people go through and I’m relieved I get to hear music in its rawest purest form.
To be honest an Art Major will convince you that Duchamp is better than Miguel Angelo. And thats BS. It only proves how much of a pretentious man Varg Vikerness is. You better go lisent to half hour of silence
@fuknwastd How is Steven Wilson's music 'pseudo-intellectual'? Where is the correlation? Very lazy criticism stemming from an inferiority complex. No one thinks you're stupid because you don't like prog, drop the projecting.
I skipped a festival whit Whitesnake, Disturbed and Children of Bodom to see Dream theatre. I regret absolutely nothing. I feel like i need to thank you for helping me make the right choice 🤘
Music doesn't need to be complicated to be complex. It sounds good, it generates emotion unlike technical music(rings of saturn for example) which focuses on showing off skill ignoring the whole purpose of art. A simple painting can generate a lot more emotion than an overdetailed picture.
I never fully understood why fellow black metal fans really cared about Dunkelheit to be honest. It’s okay in the realm of atmospheric bm, but so many other ABM bands (ie Summoning and Caladan Brood) do it way better than Varg did.
The whole album of Filosofem was not ever meant as a black metal album. Rather, it is an anti-black metal album according to Varg. In my eyes it's just very good mesmerizing music with black metal elements
@ Hraedir, Black Metal Elitist Bruv', I even never fully understood why fellow black metal fans really cared about Burzum to be honest. I'm not trve cvlt enough, I guess... :( (...or maybe I just simply don't like it at all...)
A jazz snob here. I find dream theater really boring and unmusical, soulless and I hate the singers voice. I really like dunkelheit, it's really relaxing to my ears and the repetitiveness helps me meditate
Although I love panic attack i'd choose Dunkelheit just because I prefer atmosphere over technicality and the raw potato sound adds charm. I could relax and drive in the night to burzum which I couldn't do for Dream Theater. Love both bands though
Hey, it might be a shitty song technically but it's atmospheric as hell and i love it! Great video even though i don't understand most of the shit you said.
Black Metal seems like a meme to me, but hey, if there is a crowd that basically wants the same song over and over and over and over again, then good for those bands for giving it to them.
Black metal is literally the reason society hates us... Everytimw I tell someone I listen to metal everyone thinks I spend my days with war paint screaming in my room that I love satan
"So how disappointed were you in this conclusion?" Well, I was somewhat surprised that you didn't end up completely thrashing Dunkelheit, but I still don't see the point of this comparison. You're comparing a meditative darkly oppressive ambient song to a masterfully crafted progressive masterpiece. There's really no room for comparison here, because the two songs just fill two completely different roles and were made for completely different purposes. Simply put, if I want to listen to something dense and repetitive to fall asleep to, then I'll listen to Dunkelheit. If I want to listen to something exciting, that will keep me awake at my boring-ass job, then I'll listen to Panic Attack. They both serve their purpose and succeed in what they set out to do and they're really not in each-other's way. It doesn't help that you openly hate Dunkelheit and see no appeal in it. So what this video boils down to is repeating the same exact criticism that everyone who never listens to black metal has already said many times, followed by some prog theory. Yes, it's simple and noisy, that's the point. It's barely even criticism, that's exactly what we like about it. You don't like, that's fine, but you're really not relaying any useful information by stating the obvious. Varg made Dunkelheit in his basement, of course it sounds like shit! With your logic, I could just say, that Dream Theater is garbage, because I can't fall asleep to it. And then make a lengthy video pointing out everything that makes it hard to fall asleep.
Dunkelheit is a masterpiece, and I feel that you’re missing the entire point of the song. It’s atmospheric, the repetition, shitty production quality, and vocals are all intentional.
@@Shoxic666 It's about Execution, Emotion and atmosphere. Varg composed dunkelheit with cheap equipment in order to make an old, dark and dreadful atmosphere. It's intentional.
@@captainfantastic3490 I didn't say all black metal is automatically bad, I'm specifically saying dunkelheit is bad, and that it being bad on purpose doesn't somehow make it good.
For me Dunklheit it's not a bad song, it's ambient black metal it has to give you that feeling of darkness and repetitiveness, for me it does it's work well.
Mike would you consider a video on your music education? I think a lot of us would like to hear about the road to your quest for ultimate music knowledge. Rock on amigo 🤘🏻
I love black metal. I liked this video. Black metal fans need to learn how to not take themselves too seriously, you should be able to laugh at your own music. Dunkelhiet is one of my favourite songs ever and I found this hilarious. Keep it up mike.
That's not the issue. The issue is if Dunkelheit deserves to be laughed at in the first place. Plenty of people "get" Dunkelheit, otherwise it wouldn't be as famous as it is. Mike just seemed to adopt the classic elitist approach of "If it's simple and badly produced, it sucks." It's such blatant low-hanging fruit.
People who say things like "music wankery" are just creating a way to cope with their own incompetence. "Petrucci is way more talented than I am but somehow he can't convey the same type of emotion I convey with my shitty bendy 3 note solo 🤓"
Mike, I watched the entire video. Despite what you said, it seems pretty clear to me that, as the title of the video suggests, the point of it was to compare "good metal" to "bad metal," using Dream Theater and Burzum to provide the paradigm examples respectively. I've been a black metal fan for ages, so I'm surely biased. Though I did relisten to each song in turn after watching your video, with an ear toward comparing them as objectively as possible. I tried to observe the way I was affected in each case. Here's what I came away with in the end. The Dream Theater song was alright -- certainly not bad. Yet I have to say, it just didn't "grab" me the same way Burzum did, and always has. (Not that Burzum is even the best example of great black metal.) To try to articulate what I mean by that, let me put it this way: I felt that Dream Theater was playing AT me through most of the song. Sure there were exciting and interesting moments, but the absorption never lasted long. At times, what they were conveying sort of felt like, "look at how sophisticated we are" -- which was distracting. I couldn't help but call the overall motive into question. Beyond that, the production was almost too crisp and perfect. It lacked that sort of organic quality which brings great music to life. That was my experience anyway. By contrast, good black metal is often crafted/produced in such a way as to feel distant, yet enticing. It's a bit like hearing the plaintive cries of an animal in the woods, if that analogy can work. It's primal, and it works on the imagination. And I think it's very much intended to work that way. I find myself more readily and fully absorbed into a soundscape which feels like it's alive and breathing -- as if I'm being consumed by the music itself, more so than the other way around. Also, who cares if it's simple? (I'm sure you've heard that before.) It's true though: simple doesn't always mean boring, just as "more complex" doesn't always mean more interesting. Some songs are simple; some are complex. It can be a good or a bad thing either way. It just depends on the particular instance in question. It depends on what your measure for complexity is as well. I find the Burzum song to be quite complex, albeit in different ways. There is a lot of black metal out there which is complex by your standards as well: modulations, time variation, the whole 9 yards. Some of it's awesome. Some of it sucks. What matters ultimately is the final product as a whole, and that can impact different listeners in different ways. Not to say that the value of music is entirely subjective. There is, however, an undeniably subjective element. Just because you have trouble positioning yourself in the right place to resonate with it, doesn't mean it's objectively terrible, or worthless garbage. That's a pretty radical thing to imply, and obviously not true. If you don't mean it that way, I have to say it definitely comes off that way at times. Yes, I took some time out of my day to write this -- it's my day off. Just figured I'd play the same game. Your content is enjoyable and entertaining for the most part. Keep it up by all means man. You might just consider how fair you're being at times, or the extent to which your own biases might be running the show. Reigning that in some might honestly help your channel fare a little better. All in good spirit. Best wishes.
I respect your comment and your thoughts, but I find it rather the other way around, almost entirely completely the opposite of what you're saying.
The reason I can't resonate with a lot of black metal is for the reasons you've stated about Dream Theater, at least from the two songs in this video. It feels more like, to me, it's trying to immerse you in clean, effective manners that feel like they guide you through a told story. My problem with black metal, generally, is the exact opposite, where it sounds often like it's blasting and trying to tell you how it is, not to also show you and take you on the journey with it. Now, I won't lie, I don't know a great deal of black metal, but I've heard a lot of it through friends and family, and it just doesn't sit in the same way with me as a lot of dream theater songs do. Hell, my favorite band is slipknot and that feels like more of a ride to me than a lot of what I've heard with black metal.
I don't exactly have the words to explain why I, myself, don't enjoy Black Metal, but what I can say is the overall message from not only you, but the video as well, is that, yeah, there's no definitive example of "good," or "bad' music, as in the end it really is all about how it feels to you and what resonates with you, not anyone else. Been really enjoying this channel recently for its look on music as a whole, and enjoying the accounts of a legitimate metal guitarist's thoughts on not only metal as a genre, but music in general. I enjoyed your account of it, too, and think that an important thing to remember is that music is subjective, and it's nice to see so many people coming to the same conclusions. Have a nice day you guys!
Edit: I did wanna say that I think he did an excellent job. Sure, he may have implied that the music is "bad," but that's his opinion regardless. He does mention that it's impossible to truly say whether any music can be considered good or bad, and I honestly think that's enough. If anything I respect him more for making a video about his own opinion, because Lord knows opinions on the internet are a dangerous thing.
@@thomasthefascisttankengine4694 Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can understand where your coming from. I recognize that black metal isn't for everyone. It even took me a while to come around to it -- I think it's very much an acquired taste for most people. It's certainly not as immediately palatable as many other forms of music. If I remember right, for me, it was a gradual process of hearing just one or two songs in the beginning which struck me in a different kind of way. From there, I began to explore a little more, and noticed I was hearing similar aspects in other black metal. Eventually, I found myself completely captivated; it just took some time for me to receive it in the right way, and to be able hear what's valuable in it. Once I did, however, it was like an entire world was opened for me, and I was able to experience an artform which I had never appreciated in the past. As a genre, it's very unique, and it offers things which I've not found in any other genre of music, especially metal. Though I can still understand the aversion which many people experience. There is a lot of variety within black metal, and some of it certainly can be relentless. I've come to appreciate even that stuff as well, so long as it's not substituting for a lack of depth and creativity. Much of it, however, is not so relentlessly blasting -- or if it is, then at least not merely so, or not for that sake only. Check out "Dawn" for instance: Swedish black metal band from the 90's. Those guys are extremely artful, and, I imagine, much more subtle than most would expect who've not had much exposure. Like other bands of the era, they stared out as a death metal band, but soon transitioned to a different sound, & helped to pioneer the genre. Their first real black metal album "Nær sólen gar niþer for evogher," especially, is something special in my opinion. (The first song retains something of a death metal feel, though everything following is really something else.) Setherial is another innovative band. Their first album "Nord" might even be thought of as a "prog metal" album in some sense. It contains some significant progressive elements at least, in the production and composition. Abigor manages to create some of the best atmosphere I've ever heard from any metal band. Their first and third full-lengths are my personal favorites. And just because, I'll go ahead and plug "Where Only the Season's Mark the Path's of Time" by Thy Primordial. That's a great example of a relentless, blasting sort of album, which is no less melodic and creative. And there are so many more. I think a lot of this stuff is just difficult for people to come by, because it's never had widespread exposure outside the niche, and it tends to get buried in the underground. But there's a ton of great stuff out there, which I think is often overlooked, or gets a bad wrap because of certain other, more famous bands which I don't need to name. As a whole, I think black metal often gets misunderstood or misrepresented. I wonder if more people might come to appreciate it to a greater degree if they could push through the initial jarring effect? Though I definitely agree that music requires listeners to truly be what it is, and my perception of it might just be me. I agree too that I was probably a little harsh on Mike in my original comment. I've since checked out more of his content, and I agree that he does a great job. He at least makes arguments to support his positions on things, & I respect that for sure. I wanted to mention also that, overall, I think Dream Theater is great, and most of the time I would rather listen to them than a lot of other stuff. On a final note, Rush has always been one of my all-time favorite bands. Cheers!
I don't even care much about the technicalities. That first song sounds like someone is playing a song for me over the phone.
Dream theater might be too much. Old deathcore is my fave like winds of plague has heavyness to it and its not completely filled with noise it has pauses and melodies which just add to the anticipation. U can really get into it
@@thomasthefascisttankengine4694
Other way round.
Dream Theater is completely soulless music.
It's what happens when people proficient at the instruments come together and try to create a song despite lacking songwriting ability.
The battle of the ages: Prog metal snobs vs Black metal elitist
Best comment!
This should be top comment hahaha
Can I represent the Black Metal Elitist Committee lmao?
drunken Thrasher wins.
@S K G Thrashers drink Beer together with Death Metal fans while laughing bout elitism
Varg is probably outside your door and is prepared to use his self defence skills, be careful mike
Is Varg really on his door... let's find out.
He really dosent get the point of black metal. couldn't he atleast do a band somewhat closer to what he's comparing Burzum to??? Or atleast do actually bad metal band instead like 5 finger death punch
Hahahahahahahaha
@@ChrisPartiesPresents nah, black metal is ass af
Best comment yet😂
Black metal: a genre made in rebellion to all clean aspects of metal
Prog metal: a genre taking the technical, flashy, and clean aspects of metal to their fullest extent.
Two very hard things to compare.
Two nearly incomparable things
Also Ambient Black metal which Varg invented is way more emotional than stale Prog metal.
based huuttis I'm pretty sure he did, I'd like to hear who you think invented it but as far as I know nobody was doing that at the time.
@@BlasphemousVerses I love both these two genres, tho. And don't think that all prog artists are good tho. There are so many Djent bands that sucks, but there are also so many Djent artists that actually make eargasmic music. So, what is Mike's reason for calling black metal as garbage is what I don't understand. There are both good and bad examples of black metal.
black metal: school shooters surf rock
prog metal: wankers that are anything but progressive because they all sound the same and they all sound like shit
black is still good though, and also had a clear evolution through the years, with three different waves of good and original bands
Mike: "the production value is complete horseshit"
Any black metal band: " i guess we did a great job then "
I'm hearing a lot of stuff I'd like in Burzum if it didn't sound like the whole band was recorded on one $20 room mic with the gain cranked all the way up. Is there any black metal that actually has good audio engineering, or is sounding neigh-unlistenable the whole schtick? Because if it's the latter... I'm inclined to agree with Mike here. And I don't usually do that.
@@CraigKeidel deathspell omega is clean and its awesome
@@TheJoaovicente right on man, I'll check it out. I'm usually a doom/stoner metal guy so the dissonant-ish chord compositions definitely catch my ear, and it seems like Black Metal really leans into that listener discomfort.
@@TheJoaovicente Wow I'm just about 2 minutes into the intro and I'm already fucking stoked. This is fantastic. Any other suggestions?
@@CraigKeidel I heard blut aus nord is clean sounding but I can’t confirm. Dissection and rotting Christ also have clean production. Maybe Peste noire, if you stay away from the first 2 albums (even though the first is arguably their best). I don’t like harakiri for the sky, but maybe you do, very clean sounding.
This week we compare Return of the Fly by The Misfits to Chopin’s “Etude in G# minor, Op.25; No.6”
Good point
Both are great songs, but both are also vastly different.
LMAO
and that is the point of the video. to argue that both are different
Just to make it clear i like return of the fly much better than etude.
Now you are obligated to do Good Jazz vs Bad Jazz
Edit: Why are my most liked comments always the ones i spent the least amount of time and effort writing? Jk thnx guys
THIS!
HELL YAH
Can someone recommend me some good jazz?
@@racosiandrei3745 in artists, im really into Thelounious Monk, Grant Green, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Hermeto Pascoal and Lee Morgan
Bruno Zago Yama Kasi thanks
You should do a video comparing a good song from a band, and a bad song from the same band. This kind of also eliminates any argument for bias.
Nobody like the comment I just got it to 69
Fuck I ruined it
So he'll be stuck on this foever.
In The End and then Heavy by Linkin Park. Easy peasy Japaneasy
@@GNVS300 the blister exists and then unsainted by slipknot
I simply cannot believe that prog metal is technically more complex than Burzum. How have we never noticed this?
Right? This guy is literally judging black metal by it's technicality and production value and comparing it to fucking prog. All of his points would be reasonable if he was just explaining why he doesn't like this particular song but stating that it is an objectively bad song just goes to show that this guy does not understand black metal. Talking about intolerance of fans of other music genres towards metal lol.
@@SolaceV9 black metal is an embarrassment to metal.
@@creativeperson5858 Just like metalcore was an embarrassment to metal? People used to hate on metalcore but I never jumped on the bandwagon tried to discredit the artists even though I don't even listen to metalcore. It's the same with black metal now, I don't like it either but that doesn't mean that I constantly have to hate on it. Black Metal is not an embarrassment for metal and it played a pretty big role in the evolution of metal, shove your elitist opinion up your ass.
ikilledkenny formoney overly technical, soulless materialist american wankery is an embarrassment to music
Lol
Honestly, I think this guy is complimenting black metal. He said it sounds like utter shit and garbage. The highest honor given to a black metal musician.
And that’s why I stay away from most black metal. Where did they get the idea that the worse it sounds, the better it is?
@@lotsapasta0858 why deep dive into music you can't stand?
@@lotsapasta0858 I mean, I’ve heard black metal I liked, mostly stuff that wasn’t pure black metal. I listened to this obscure band called Lustravi for a while that was basically all the generic, somewhat death metal-ish ceremonial black metal I needed. Their sound was pretty crude, but at least you could hear the bass, and there was some real songwriting. There’s also a cool Irish band called Mortichnia that basically plays hopeless blackened doom metal and whose album was produced by James Kelly from post-black metal band Altar of Plagues, which I’ve also listened to. I’ve listened to Deafheaven’s Sunbather because hipsters wouldn’t shut up about it, and it was kinda interesting. I’ve listened to Vektor, which is basically blackened progressive thrash metal, and their album Terminal Redux is one of the best metal albums I’ve ever listened to.
In short, I think I know what black metal sounds like, but I happen to find it much more interesting when it’s mixed with other things. Relatively generic flavors of it just aren’t my thing.
Also, I think it’s disingenuous to act like Burzum was just one edgy kid’s project when it was really influential and has fans to this day. Varg burning a church and murdering his bandmate was essential to popularizing black metal. Burzum is not, I dunno, an abandoned shit-tier crunkcore project. It’s worth analysis and criticism.
@@lunchb0x1986 To not be ignorant and biased. You can't make an argument if you don't understand the side you arguing against, literally one of the most basic concepts in writing. Though, judging you at face value, you don't seem like the type of person who was paying attention to these things in writing, because you wouldn't have made that comment.
If you truly strive to be hated, you’re no better than some edgy teenager. Honestly, it’s pretty much pathetic. Black metal sounds like incell music.
What does Mike have to say in this video?
*LET'S FIND OUT*
hahahhahahahhah im dead
*Mike the Music Snob found stabbed 23 times in his underwear*
DT are the best!! 😛😂😂
@@thecosmicpallbearer It was self defense, even though he had to travel several miles out of his way to get to Mike. He thought Mike was going to kill him. Lol. 😆 😆 😆 😆
Jesse Eremit 🤣
I already watched the whole thing mike even tho it came out 1 minute ago and the video is 11 minutes long and i gotta say i disagree with every point you made
Haha
fuck this is pretty much the joke i made 2hours later. i should have read the comments first.
I think that you disagree with the subjective points in the video, but about the technical music theory points (intervals, tensions, chord progressions, rhythmic patterns, melodies, harmonizations, etc), they were all pretty accurate. It's like if you were trying "Music theory is wrong, I'm right". If we just focus on music theory, there is a vas difference in usage of music resources between both songs.
Jimmy Wyndham same
@@MaggotSkulls you get my comment was sarcastic right?
1) Dream Theater is more complex than Burzum
2) ???
3) Profit
They are more complex
Pan Pop wrong
david viteri.
1) Dream Theatre make good music and heres why
2) Burzum make bad music and here’s why
3) profit
4) Bunch of morons who clearly didn’t listen to the video and heard Mike say it’s production is bad and all they heard after that was white noise
@@jesterinadeck_2980 also mike tell after reviewing panic attack that both are different styles and neither is necessarily bad...
@@jesterinadeck_2980 I like my noise to be black, sir.
So basically... Burzum sucks at writing Dream Theater songs, whereas Dream Theater are great at writing Dream Theater songs. What an astounding conclusion.
@Ryan Taylor lmao its one dude not they
Ryan Taylor but its used to add to the dark aestethic
@@malteekholm7411 I guess if your aesthetic is to simulate a Fallout 76 bug then Burzum's got you covered, but aesthetic is not an excuse for bad mixing.
@dagtrboi ind Do you know concrete music ?
@dagtrboi ind Yes I do as well.
When night falls
She cloaks the world
In impenetrable darkness
A chill rises
From the soil
And contaminates the air
Suddenly
Life has new meaning.
@Xx Cicerons xX Dude you have Bonded By Blood as a profile pic. I dont think you could tell the difference between a poem and a shit stained door at you local 7-11 with a phone number carved into it , promising for a good time .
Let’s see that fucking ken doll in Dream Theater write something as emotional as that
dagtrboi ind good thing I said specifically the one from dream Theater right? Because he sucks.
@@outis439-A that is fucking poetry that you just said my man
here's a radical take: both Dunkelheit and Panic Attack are great songs, better than what most people in the comments are capable of creating. Some black metal may be simple, but actually having the thought to create it is something else. It's not as typically derivative as say, pop.
Mike: Making top-tier shitstorm inducing thumbnail
Also Mike: Pls dont make shitstorm in the comments before watching video
Ok, let's see where it goes.
Mike: *puts out bait*
Also mike: “please don’t take my bait”
*Let's find out.*
@@conormurphy4328 but if you're dumb enough to take the bait, well then... you're dumb
Negative comment
Yes
Positive reply
actually, you're wrong because of metal reasons
Did you watch the whole video and take into account subpoints?
Negative Like
Please!!! Good Prog vs less good Prog.
I'd also like to see old prog va new prog, how they've changed etc :p
Good prog vs shitty ass terrible prog
@@ashenone6166 almost no such thing
@@samueljacobson470 I can assure you there definitely is. Every single genre has shit whether you like it or not.
Opeth vs Tool?
Well, that's a very reductive way of analysing music.
que? ele literalmente analisou a tecnica, a teoria e o felling da musica cara! btw ele nem comparou os dois diretamente, ele usou a discrepancia pra dizer q ambos são diferentes mas ainda são metal... lol
@@Canalbiruta não teve revisão de "teoria". o objetivo de black metal é completamente diferente que o de prog. "feeling" não significa literalmente nada btw(todo mundo usa a palavra do jeito que quer).
@@98danielray uahauahauahhaauhauahau a lot to learn my friend
"There is one more thing: black metal sucks"
Hate and screams in 144p
It doesn't suck. It's complete horse shit.
@@TrishTin So far I only had bad experiences with people who listen to Black metal. Tons of Elitists and some Nazis.
agalloch would beat DT any day
@X D Listen to these songs-
Gorgoroth-Prosperity and beauty (live at wacken),Sign of an open eye.
Rotting Christ-666,Devadevam
Bathory-The lake
Nagaroth-Seven tears are flowing to the river
Thy light-In my last mourning
Mgla-Exercises in futility 5
@@mariovomhof2775 You definitely are not wrong. Black metal fan base can be very annoying but there are a lot of guys that enjoy black metal and still have a very open mind
Imagine if Dunkelheit was technical or had a good mix and amp etc. It would completely ruin the entire song.
Like it wasn't ruined before.
If it had a good mix it wouldn’t suck ass
Can you please, please explain what it is supposed to be?
I completely disagree. I think that you can create a similar atmosphere and feel with good production. In fact, i think it could be improved.
Jacob G yes, the only „good“ black metal has good production. It makes the supposed atmosphere of bad production pale in comparison
Real quote from Varg of Burzum: “I want one mic in the middle of the room, and nothing else.”
Didn’t he say he used a cheap headset for the vocals
that's actually a fake quote from the movie 'lords of chaos' which varg hated lol. good job
It can work if your mic is good and you know how to mix.
He actually didn't do that he said that he said it was false in one of the videos he uploaded about lords of chaos
Daddockmusic
In the middle of the cave*
i think, a fairer comparison would be good black metal vs bad black metal, ok good prog vs bad prog. Those subgenres are too different to be compared imho
Yes, totally different aesthetics. Prog metal is trying to be progressive in some sense - it needs to have some complexity to it, be it time signature changes, complex rhythms, complicated structure, complicated harmonies, overall technicality, some kind of "I didn't see that coming" moment. Basically, it's taking the basic "sound of metal" and applying more complicated composition techniques to it. Black metal is nothing like that - it's more about creating a dark and brutal mood, and the compositional complexity is totally irrelevant to the genre (in prog metal I would say the compositional complexity is pretty much the most important thing - it is what makes prog prog).
No such thing as good black metal.
@based huuttis You must be a very unhappy person and an antisocial reject if you like black metal, and the shitty message it portrays. Not real music.
@Nature Revenge What is the message of black metal? What do think it is? I think it's a bunch of cringey goons screaming about how much they hate Christ. Get a life and listen to real music.
@@AmIBeef Black metal has a higher and much more complex message than hating christ, at least early Norwegian black metal like burzum. Varg and his "goons" did what they did to preserve the history of Norway, they had alot of pagan beliefs and most of them just used satanism as a front. They did what they believed was sending a message, showing that the old ways still exist. If you want to do more research on this check out the art project "Sons of Odin" or the documentary until the light takes us.
Does there exist a single Dream Theater fan that doesn’t reduce music to a math equation?
Bro my music is better because it has a cooler time signature bro bro come on bro
Music theory helps one understand what and why something means or is in a song
Me! There music is so epic and I love it, but they can also dial it back and create some really raw sounding metal (train of thought). I just admire their ability to sound so different in all their albums yet have a very particular dream theater-esque sound. I love them. Definitely one of my favorite bands
Me
Is there a single black metal song that doesn’t sound like St Anger got put through a paper shredder
for me the appeal of burzum, especially "Dunkelheit" is the feeling to completly zone out. It's a very athmosperic song. Of course it's no fancy very complex masterpiece.
I love his ambient stuff
I completely understand your arguments however technicality in metal is hard to compare with burzum. Varg himself has stated that burzum was a movement against technical music
Yeah what's the point of music if it's not technical tho?
Much like the card I be to Eminem one he did The point of metal is to be technical and also pushing boundaries if you're just pushing boundaries then you're not being metal
Alex Fitzpatrick are you trying to say prog metal is the only real genre of metal
@@alexfitzpatrick2509 metal can be technical however many genres rely on the feel and emotions. Like doom metal for example
@@alexfitzpatrick2509 Metal does not need to be technical.
This is an unfair comparison because the songs you chose are ones you already have strong feelings for or against. In order for this to be more accurate, you should have chosen two songs that were relatively new to you.
I personally love both prog and black metal
i get it so the message is that opeth is great.Ok
Lmfao
Burzum is not a "they," it's one guy. Mike isnt aware of the anti-music theory of Burzum.
You're the type of person we meme on
@@GoldFellaTim cause he is saying a fact? Indeed it's not they. Indeed BM including Burzum are anti-music theory acts. He said nothing offensive. Open your mind before you open your mouth.
@@paulakrit1308 we meme on you as well
@@GoldFellaTim that's a very normie thing to say actually
@@valentinvali9622 ok
This is why people say music theory ruins your enjoyment of music
Not really.... Prog snobs ruins enjoymentof music😂
@@dvir12345 facts. I’m not a snob and prog is my favourite genre, people do like to tell me why it sucks but I don’t know why anyone here can’t just like their genres without bashing someone else.
@X D cringe
no one says that
No, that is said because you're thinking over feeling, doesn't take away the fact that some music is just bad and the even if you don't think about the theory you're gonna like it
All you said was true. It does not mean Burzum is unenjoyable though. I like this track for the exact reason you hate it, I like the horrible mix, the droniness and the repetition. Because it makes the listener work for his enjoyment and his understanding of the song. The listener must use his imagination and his culture to draw something from the music. And it's true for most Black Metal music.
If these tracks were painting, Panic Attack would be an academic painting, something very clear and realistic. Dunkelheit would be a painting from the Impressionism or Surrealism movement, where all is vague, and you have to guess what is depicted.
Both can be enjoyable.
Dang you did a better job explaining both songs than Mike
Jk Mike explained it well but damn you really nailed it on the head with that analogy
You fucking hit the nail right in the fucking head with that analogy holy shit
I guess you're right. I never liked Black Metal (I've tried to), but you made me realize why some people like it.
I like to be kicked in the balls, because it makes me work for my enjoyment and my understanding of physical sensation.
Grin Drone couldn’t say it better
Let me put it how I see it:
Panic Attack is a very well put together theme park where you come in and it takes your breath with all these amazing elements and moments like: "wow, look at that, oh, and this, and holy shit, that's awesome!" All while it being comfortable and clear to understand.
Dunkelheit is a big ole Norwegian snowy valley. It's so empty, it's so cold, snow is smashing you in the face (the bad production), but the view is so beautiful, soul-screeching and atmospheric that it makes for an unusual experience which can be enjoyed if you take it all in as not a purely metal song, but an atmospheric song that's also metal.
All that being said, I get your points and understand them, it definitely does take a specific type of preson to be able to enjoy something that monotounous and badly produced.
It all points on wether we should just let ourselves be taken by the experience of hearing, or overanalyzing the piece of music that is presented to us...
I can absolutely appreciate atmospheric and repetitive but not the horrible sound quality and piss poor drums.
@@petercarlson811 then you shouldn't listen to Burzum anymore. No better reason! why do it otherwise?
@@puturro Oh trust me, I don't.
Too many blast beats in black metal for me. Just drum like a normal person, not an epileptic centipede. No offense towards actual epileptics, but I think that is an apt analogy
Now youre really gonna lose all ur subscribers
Fredie is that you
M0NG0M4N You are not alone my friend
@@luqmaanabrahams1971 YES
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@arthurabbott4792 same here bruh, from Burzum, Dark Funeral, Batushka, Cradle of Filth, Carpathian Forest to ..etc.
Black metal is about atmosphere. Prog is about skill and techniques.
Black metal is also far more enjoyable to listen too in my opinion
@@vestty5802 Its not, in my opinion
There's plenty of prog with a focus on atmosphere, Dream Theater just aren't an example of it
Music should just be focused on being good music. Black metal has little to no focus on that.
@@unholydiver1095 But then what is good music then. It depends on what you get out of it. To me personally music is all about the emotional response I get from it and black metal dose that for me, its something not ment to sound comfortable to listen to and sometimes it's done shit and other times it's dose it just right.
Alternative title: a band playing next to a waterfall vs musical calculus
BM bands in the studio like
"Yeah it sounds like white noise, drop it."
“Now one of my favorite Dream Theater songs, Panic Attack...” I cant help but feel the biaseness in this episode. I mean I feel like this is just beating a dead horse of things Mike does and doesn’t like in music.
Music snob for a reason. He knows his stuff but his opinions are a bit thick.
Exactly
@Dragon Ball fans can't read it's just his opinion of what makes good music. You have your own opinions about music too. Also, He didn't say either was bad metal... Clearly, you didn't finish the video. Also, There's nothing wrong with being a dream theater fan.
@Dragon Ball fans can't read DREAM THEATER SUCKS COCK BRO💀
Searching for a good technical Band? Go fucking listen to opeth.
Jokes aside, this was my favorite song... until I experienced a real panic attack. Then, it still was my favorite song, except I knew what it meant.
This comment should be engraved somewhere.
Does a panic attack actually feels like the song sounds? I have always wondered
@@lukasabcdefg5606 basically feel like you can't breath and the world is consuming you
@@lukasabcdefg5606 Do you feel how the song kinda keeps edging on and on in a suffocating kind of way?
That's a panic attack. The more you feel like you're panicking, the more you'll suffocate into extra panic.
@@ItsNotaPhaze that's exactly the vibe I got from that song
Varg started making music because he was tired of the over-produced and technical metal music that was being released in the 90s. He even said that the leads on this album are "anti-leads," as they are easier to play than the riffs. If you don't like it, it did it's job. And let me tell you, no matter what anyone tells me, a walk in the forest with Filosofem in the headphones is a transcendent experience.
Supporting a Nazi … also slays?? Varg needs to stop getting attention.
@Hibana Jager Main but, how are you going to learn otherwise?
@Hibana Jager Main your definition of “wrong” needs recalibration.
@Hibana Jager Main please reach out when done with calibration.
@@devonaupurok6920 might wanna read this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Black metal is harsh and primal while “dream theater” sounds like a bunch of homosexuals doing jumping jacks.
I love Dunkleheit and this video doesn't change a thing. Complete masterpiece in its own way, technical or not.
It isn't fair to compare the two songs using musical theory, because the objective of Dunkelheit is creating atmospheric and dense ambient, and Panic Attack a talent showcase and a badass song. One of the things that make the Burzum song appealing is the "bad" mixing, the distorted and distant shouts, the loud drums... Is what makes the song a classic, creating a scary and misterious vibe.
So, my point is you shouldnt compare the two songs in the same away, it's like comparing musically orchestral music to lo-fi indie. It doesn't make sense. So, when it comes to differente genres of metal, just listen to what you like, because it's hard to musically compare subgenres. I actually like your channel and I'm subbed to it, but this recent wave of Good vs Bad that you've been putting out has, in my opinion, some inconsistencies.
Dude, you watch the whole video? Mike literally came to the same conclusion you did.
@@stevestevestevesteve6466 sorry hahahah, English is not my first language
I have never been able to put my finger on it so well, but now I know how to describe atmospheric BM to people: it plays the same role as LOFI in electronic music and everybody knows what lofi is.
@@andreasfrost-blade4689 He shouldn't have made the comparison in the first place. He should have compared 2 prog metal songs or 2 black metal songs. Comparing Prog to black metal is apples to oranges
Pranav that’s basically what he says, both songs are good representations of metal and you can’t compare them so while someone may have an opinion that one song is better than the other they are both good metal songs. He didn’t make a comparison he made a straw man comparison to detail why one should not make comparisons like this.
Man , keep this in mind for the god sake.
Being technically superp doesn't mean it's more listenable than less technical songs. I don't mean
specifically these 2 songs.
Dream theater is fucking horrendous to me. I cannot enjoy them. Varg is a genius
Burzum vs Dream Threater? I wonder which one Mike will say is bad and which one he'll say is good
It's truly a mystery
Who's Mike
lester hine. It still sounds terrible. If you look at the lyrics they might have meaning but who cares when it sounds so horrendously terrible.
@@lester9859 well... i picked up before the analisys and... i was bored as fuck at the end, and was 7 minutes. octavarium is 24 minutes and i can't even fell that, it fells more like 4 when it ends.
Gotta go with trapt on that one
I like both bands, but I'd listen to Burzum over Dream Theater if I were forced to make a choice.
Same...this guy is a fucking moron
That is why we are considered elitists, they dont have what it takes to appreciate art
@@kristofferlien311 """""""Art"""""""
@@Shoxic666 whether you like it or not, Burzum is a form of art.
@@juhman Means nothing, you can call ANYTHING art, doesn't mean it's not shit.
You remind me of my philosophy professors, they use fancy words to explain very complicated stuff yet fail to see the obvious flaws in their thinking.
Chris Ian. Except Mike knows what he is talking about. He’s not using fancy words he is using proper words. I didn’t absolutely shit on Mike for not liking DragonForce or AC/DC I took his opinion and could see where he was coming from and sort of agreed with them but still enjoy the bands. Black Metal fans just disagree altogether and say he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
@@jesterinadeck_2980 I don't even listen to black metal except for a few bands like Emperor and Dissection (which are on the verge of being a swedish death metal band).
So what’s wrong with what he said? Dunkelheit has horrible production and it’s boring as fuck. Total ear rape
@@wiggy009 It has atmosphere. Many of the bands he worships lack that. And yeah the production is horrible, obviously on purpose (and I'm not sure it would've sounded better with better production) but that plays a huge role in how that song sounds. To you it may sound like absolute crap and that's okay, but that's just your opinion, man. And that guy states it like it's some kind of a fact, while it isn't. I for example don't like DT at all, and to me their vocalist sounds like he's getting his scrotum pierced while singing, but I won't deny their strengths as musicians. It's just their music doesn't speak to me.
Chris Ian fair enough, but opeth and dream theater have great atmosphere, just listen to octavarium or black water park.
Is Burzum bad metal?
*points*
Let's find out!
RIP Varg's YT channel tho.
Yeah its sad. I dont care if he is a piece of shit or if he isnt, I dont care if his views are racist or whatever, I couldnt care less, but TH-cam banning and censoring controvertail content, now that shit scares me to no end.
Varg have bitchute channel now.
Rest in peace thulean perspektive \m/ rock on
@@berserker8884 What's ironic is people who hate capitalism want Varg (who also hates capitalism🤔🤔) to be unpersoned by a corporation.
@@berserker8884 TH-cam is a corporation and this site is their property. It's quite simple. So they can do whatever fvck they want. Including bannig his fucked up content, my comments, your comments etc. If you are constantly breaking their rules, you're out. Nothing more, nothnig less. I don't get why people still think that TH-cam must tolerate everything.
BLACK METAL IS ABOUT THE FEEL IT GIVES YOU ON A FROSTY NIGHT!
I feel disappointment
FROSTY NIGHT WITH A FROSTY FACEPAINT!! And a barely recognizable logo just like your entire musical direction. :p
i feel like i'd rather be listening to something else
Honestly. Some music is not about the production value or technical ability. Adding better production and technical wankery to BM would not enhance appeal to emotion in the slightest. It makes Mike come off as someone who doesn't get the emotional aspects of music.
@@Bartholomule01 i love Mike, Black metal is not my favourite genre, but as i said it gives you that feeling, especially to us Northern Europeans, so Americans might not appreciate it the way we do, as well as i don't appreciate Asian and African metal!
Damn I have to wait 11:54 minutes?! Christ almighty, Mike.
@@drewp.weiner5708 you mean rush
1.5x speed
Thank me later
"Eleven fifty-four minutes". Come on brah
Ya know Burzum is simple by black metal standards right?
Define ‘simple’
Simplified
art is not a theory.
is made out theoritical stuff.
You thought it might be something interesting, BUT IT WAS ME, 3 2 3 1!!!
KONO 4/4 DA
Is that a fucking Jojo reference?
ZA BEATO!!
*varg stabbing euronymous* MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA
Shut the fuck up
*Run, Mike! Varg fanboys are coming!*
We're already here tho
@@weirdkidfromspace We're everywhere!
WATCH YOUR BACK BITCH
Tbh Burzum is the most overrated black metal band
@@RandomHobo Nah.
So glad this series is doing well for you - well deserved
I dont care what you say. Burzum is not “bad metal”.
he is the cringiest human being in existence, and that's fact
You didn't watch the video.
Ben Dover the artist being cringy doesnt equate to bad music.
TheNthMouse i really had no interest in hearing mikes pseudo intellectual opinion today, it gets annoying how much he dogs on anything that isnt dream theater or steve vai. Didnt care to hear his reasoning.
@@JR-rk3hs So you get your ass hurt?? Poor boy hahahaha
Just cause its hard to play doesnt mean its good.
varg playing a kids piano in prison is still better than john petrucci "wanky wanky bend bend bend sweep picking 16/65 time signature custom musicman sweep picking, yes i smoke weed and watch rick n morty" stupid solos
based
nah, varg stuff still sounds like white noise my guitar makes when i turn on my ac lol
I bet MIke has never even burned a Church down. How can he call himself a guitar player?
Thanks for showing me this cool song, Mike.
I'm not talking about the Dream Theater one
The comments are really funny actually, it's like everyone is ignoring any black metal that wasn't releases in the 90's.
yeah got to listen burzum and was like "yeah i don't hate it... but boring as hell" and i love me some atmosphere music. to be honest i like other black metal bands more than varg stuff.
The more complex the song, the higher the quality. Got it.
In my humble opinion.. DT,’s “Panic Attack” is generally lifeless and without charisma. The Burzum track, however.. despite the simplicity and dog water production.. definitely has charisma and life to it. I know I’m sounding absurd, but it is what it is…
The burzum track is literally just “noise” at least in comparison to panic attack which literally tells a story and has a full on theme throughout the song along with very catchy rhythms lol
100 percent right
@bobbyflynn6251 i don´t feel much as a viking listening to black metal... but holy hell heilung makes me want to take swords and bows to hunt animals in the forest lol
black metal listeners want something to make them feel like they are in a different dimension.For example a cold foggy scandinavian forest. Dunkenheilt is the perfect example of it
All im trying to say is that black metal has a certain doomy, scary and cold ATMOSPHERE and thats what most black metal listeners and metalheads in general, want. They dont want to hear someone playing very complicated and technical riffs with overproduction for 10 minutes straight because they find it nonsensible and boring.
this is just my opinion on this subject and of course im one of those black metal listeners i mentioned earlier otherwise i wouldnt have an opinion on why we like black metal more that prog.
Then why dont they lisent to GOOD BLACK METAL intstead of Burzum?
bemersonbakebarmen Burzum is good black metal.
@@bemersonbakebarmen It's about Execution, Emotion and atmosphere. Varg composed dunkelheit with cheap equipment in order to make an old, dark and dreadful atmosphere. It's intentional.
Behemoth and Dimmu Borgir have great production and we love them too.
If you wanna feel like you're in a cold foggy Scandinavian forest, might I recommend The Devil And The Almighty Blues? Because that doesn't make me reach for a screwdriver to shove in my ears.
@@CraigKeidel i feel like you unintentionally complimented black metal with that screwdriver comment
Boring prog wankery vs a beautifully atmospheric piece of art
th-cam.com/video/QpLbkxEL5bs/w-d-xo.html A simple song to tell the truth
"Black metal sucks."
Ok, I see what his opinion of that is now.
"The production sucks."
Do you not know what black metal is? Lol
BEast Mortuary. Production sucks, no meaning to the music other than be evil/hate everything, vocals are terrible, instrument is some of the most basic stuff, mixing is terrible, and Varg is a piece of shit. I’ve said it before at least when some modern pop band makes bad music they are still like able decent people. I doubt Varg is the only psychopath in Black Metal. It’s probably filled with it. If anyone says they hate Black Metal, Black Metal fans just go to the scape goat of “You just don’t understand it” or “That’s what they were going for”. Mike doesn’t care why they sound the way they do if they sound bad to him they sound bad to him. Except Black Metal should not be appreciated especially not Burzum. Most if not all of the people defending Black Metal just repeat the same thing over and over again. This just means they have no real defense against why the music they listen to is good. I have an open mind hell there are modern rap and modern pop songs I actually enjoy listening to and im a metal head. So don’t think I’m just some kind of close minded individual who only likes one genre. If there is one genre that I have so far not found a single good song in its Black Metal. Death Metal is better because at least the vocals are tolerable and the instrumental is actually good. Maybe I’m being to bias because Dunkleheight is the epitome of literal dog shit that was consumed by Hitler who was then cremated and someone injected his ashes into both of Hillary Clinton’s parents.
Jesterinadeck _ Fuck off poser
bad on purpose is still bad
@@jesterinadeck_2980 If you like Dream Theatre you are not a metalhead.
@@jesterinadeck_2980 I see you know nothing of black metal other than Burzum. I listen to black metal most of the day (and I listen to a lot of genres), and none of it second wave nonsense with bad production value (some do, but it's on purpose and it fits the melodies well). Most of the black metal released after the 2000's has been very consistent on this. And Black Metal itself has a lot of subgenres of its own, DSBM, atmospheric, folk and the list goes on. The fact that I'm even taking the time to reply to someone who knows nothing about the sub-genre he or she is hating on is because I've seen posting bs everywhere under this video. And let me remind of you something, music and art to its extend, is a subjective matter. If you don't know what that means, I'll gladly explain it to you.
Dunkelheit is what metal sounds like to people who hate metal
I hate metal, but I love Burzum.
I hate BM but I love Burzum
I BM hate but Burzum Love I
@@Raffini Hate to say it but your probably a nazi
@Simon Karki Point proven
Man compares apples and oranges and gets mad when the oranges don't taste like apples.
I used to think Black Metal sucked too... but then I discovered “Secrets of the moon” and it opened my mind to the genre. Lots to it that I didn’t even know about... I also like the “black and roll” scene.
Should look into Forest of Stars and Cult of Fire. Greek black metal is completely different from Nordic black metal, as it's not going for the lofi/atmosphere. Rotting Christ is one band to listen to.
Black metal sucked until varg went to prision and euronymus died.
Bradley Swanson. If Black Metal has different vocals (actually good vocals) I would understand how people could enjoy it.
Secrets of the moon - Veronicas Room is actually decent
Secrets of the moon - Carved in Stigmita is just awful. Black Metal just sounds like noise to me and many. It sounds like they just throw their instruments around and the singer swallows razor blades then begins to sing. Black Metal (the bands that sound like Burzum) is really for edgy people who will probably grow up to be serial killers.
I just love how RAW Black Metal is.
I think if you wanted to pit a black metal song to a Dream Theater song. You shoulda went with something by Immortal. Atleast they're technically proficient and have a way better production compared to the one man band Burzum.
he purposely chose a bad song. thats the point of this series
sardine He doesn't like black metal so its all bad.
TallicaMan1986 but burzum’s song is bad in every sense
@@conormurphy4328 How so? Because it isn't time signature wanking and extremely over produced to the point it sounds mechanical?
Also the vocals in Dream Theater suck ass.
TallicaMan1986 there’s a whole 12 minute video up there explaining it to you.
Rip Thuleansperspective (Varg's channel)
Thank God it's gone
@@TheUnmitigatedDawn Burzum's Aight
Pawn Hearts Nah, fuck you.
anus vær så snill dra til helveta!
Ah yes comparing the genre created out of spite of how technical and clean metal was getting to one of the most technical genres of metal, makes a lot of sense
Commenter: This isn't a valid comparison.
Replies: bUrZuM sUcKs.
You don't get to make a video based entirely on that shit comparison, then cop out at the end saying "by the way this isn't a fair comparison", you're not absolved of the shit critiques you made.
@@basserman the critiques were about technicalities and why he doesn't like black metal, while also showing why he likes dream theater, did he said that dt is good metal and burzum is bad metal? no the video was actually about how dumb trying to argue this is.
@@Canalbiruta then what the fuck was the point of the video? he's said nothing, he gets the criticism that he deserves.
@@basserman what he said at the end of the video. Ppl keep asking him for a good vs bad metal, and like he said, there's no such thing as bad metal because both are metal with distinct characteristics and the only thing he can say that is good or bad is production, technicalities and arrangement. The rest is personal opinion and taste.
"muh production value"
Black metal fans: muh album was made on the budget of a huge sandwich.
Lmao, not even a black metal fan (though I do like Dunkelheit). Sound quality doesn't matter much when it comes to metal in my opinon, that's all.
@@C0reyTaylor8 Your opinion is trash. Sound quality makes the biggest difference in Metal. It makes the biggest difference in music in general. If this wasn't objectively the case then production, mixing and mastering wouldn't be a thing. Its one thing to say that one can like terrible quality if the music itself is good but to say that it doesn't matter is retarded.
@@libertyprime3482 I never said sound quality doesn't matter, I merely stated that it's not as important (to me) when comparing two different metal songs/bands/albums. I don't really care about how "clean" the instruments sound, it's more about the overall mix and song structure.
mike: black metal sucks
me: well..i don't need to watch the rest of the video
:D Best comment so far, thumbs up bro!
I mean he's right
Actually: you do.
TheNthMouse why?
Pawn Hearts - because the line in question is obviously trolling?
U dont even know that burzum is a solo project
Well every point in the video is invalid then.
yes….@@conormurphy4328
So that's one person creating that crappy sound?
@@VeteranCapybara its meant to be shitty quality he said it himself in a interview
@@VeteranCapybara if u dont like dunkelheit, i highly recommend a little earlier Burzum, these albums: aske, Burzum, hvis lyset tar oss, det som engang var
Niccce! I wanted to see this video! Been patiently waiting. Thanks Mike!
I am not a fan of Black Metal but I do I actually like Dunkelheit. Dunkelheit is one of the very few Black metal songs I do like and it is purely because of the repetitiveness. I find it very relaxing and found myself coming back to it whenever I needed to focus on work. Personally I found it to be good background music to clear my mind and to focus on whatever I am working on.
Look into atmospheric black metal and blackgaze
@@man4437 Blackgaze I do like. Sadness is one of my favorites.
If Dunkelheit sounds extremely raw, that's because that's the sound Varg was going for with that album; he wouldn't have used the worst microphone he could find for vocals otherwise. Not fair to claim a song is inferior in quality for not sounding polished when that was never the intention.
*Burzum and Dream Theater*
I W O N D E R W H I C H I S T H E G O O D O N E
I’m on the edge of my seat with anticipation
It’s burzum..
@@vestty5802 😐
@@ripit.3457 shut up butt head
*yOu jUsT dOnT uNdeRsTaNd hOw tO be KvLt*
Umm, it's cult. Don't h8 me.
@@abhirupb316 it's KvLT yov fvcking poser
Mt dew’s pretty kvlt right?
Dream Theater and all those "look how many notes I can cram in a single song with as many different time signatures as possible" bands bore me to death.
Why are they boring to you?
@@IrrelevantPlease because they suck
@@IrrelevantPlease no emotion, very robotic, not at all human
@@CausticSpace watch them play it live. It’s very human
@@raregrimebeats1352 Fair enough, but Im rarely going to watch concerts as compared to listen to the music. I think Concerts and listening to Music are very different experiences.
Sometimes I wish could understand musical structure but then see the torture that these people go through and I’m relieved I get to hear music in its rawest purest form.
When you know all about technicalities and nothing about art
“Art”
@@conormurphy4328 or anti-art
To be honest an Art Major will convince you that Duchamp is better than Miguel Angelo. And thats BS. It only proves how much of a pretentious man Varg Vikerness is. You better go lisent to half hour of silence
bemersonbakebarmen I’ll take the bait... who is Miguel Angelo
@fuknwastd How is Steven Wilson's music 'pseudo-intellectual'? Where is the correlation? Very lazy criticism stemming from an inferiority complex. No one thinks you're stupid because you don't like prog, drop the projecting.
I agree with you but I think you can't really compare two subgenres with each other Black and Progressive are so different
I skipped a festival whit Whitesnake, Disturbed and Children of Bodom to see Dream theatre. I regret absolutely nothing. I feel like i need to thank you for helping me make the right choice 🤘
Skipping children of bodom wasnt such a good idea to be honest
Honestly I’d have skipped Dream Theatre for the others honestly.
Actually fuck disturbed
Music doesn't need to be complicated to be complex. It sounds good, it generates emotion unlike technical music(rings of saturn for example) which focuses on showing off skill ignoring the whole purpose of art. A simple painting can generate a lot more emotion than an overdetailed picture.
One of my favorite aspects of early Burzum is how simple and consistent the drums are
I like black metal actually...
This just makes me want to see you try Good Dream Theater vs Bad Dream Theater.
Prepare for war...
there's no such thing as good Dream Theater
I never fully understood why fellow black metal fans really cared about Dunkelheit to be honest. It’s okay in the realm of atmospheric bm, but so many other ABM bands (ie Summoning and Caladan Brood) do it way better than Varg did.
i agree with everything you said Hraedir. Dunkelheit is iconic tho and dont ask me why :D
The whole album of Filosofem was not ever meant as a black metal album. Rather, it is an anti-black metal album according to Varg. In my eyes it's just very good mesmerizing music with black metal elements
Hraedir, Black Metal Elitist wish he’d listen to paragon belial by darkthrone
@
Hraedir, Black Metal Elitist Bruv', I even never fully understood why fellow black metal fans really cared about Burzum to be honest. I'm not trve cvlt enough, I guess... :(
(...or maybe I just simply don't like it at all...)
A jazz snob here. I find dream theater really boring and unmusical, soulless and I hate the singers voice.
I really like dunkelheit, it's really relaxing to my ears and the repetitiveness helps me meditate
Dream Theater is too sterile for my liking.
Yeah, boring - the very definition of every Dream Theater song.
I enjoy prog, in fact old Opeth, PT and Mastodon are some of my favourite bands. But Burzum shits all over Dream Theater's synthetic, soulless wank.
I like a few of DT’s albums a lot but some of those early Burzum albums put me in another realm if you know what I mean
Although I love panic attack i'd choose Dunkelheit just because I prefer atmosphere over technicality and the raw potato sound adds charm. I could relax and drive in the night to burzum which I couldn't do for Dream Theater. Love both bands though
Hey, it might be a shitty song technically but it's atmospheric as hell and i love it!
Great video even though i don't understand most of the shit you said.
Dont let him convince you its a shitty song. Its not, its just a shitty song in his oppinion.
It's not atmospheric dumb bl*ck metal fan, Varg doesn't have money. That's it.
What atmosphere? Putting a mic down a garbage disposal?
Black Metal seems like a meme to me, but hey, if there is a crowd that basically wants the same song over and over and over and over again, then good for those bands for giving it to them.
Black metal is literally the reason society hates us... Everytimw I tell someone I listen to metal everyone thinks I spend my days with war paint screaming in my room that I love satan
So black metal sounds like shit and whatever Dream Theater is sounds like a anime intro?
Guess the anime intro sounds better
Lmao!.anime intro😂 MegaMan boss.battle
At least it doesn’t sound like St Anger put through a shredder
"So how disappointed were you in this conclusion?"
Well, I was somewhat surprised that you didn't end up completely thrashing Dunkelheit, but I still don't see the point of this comparison. You're comparing a meditative darkly oppressive ambient song to a masterfully crafted progressive masterpiece. There's really no room for comparison here, because the two songs just fill two completely different roles and were made for completely different purposes. Simply put, if I want to listen to something dense and repetitive to fall asleep to, then I'll listen to Dunkelheit. If I want to listen to something exciting, that will keep me awake at my boring-ass job, then I'll listen to Panic Attack. They both serve their purpose and succeed in what they set out to do and they're really not in each-other's way.
It doesn't help that you openly hate Dunkelheit and see no appeal in it. So what this video boils down to is repeating the same exact criticism that everyone who never listens to black metal has already said many times, followed by some prog theory. Yes, it's simple and noisy, that's the point. It's barely even criticism, that's exactly what we like about it. You don't like, that's fine, but you're really not relaying any useful information by stating the obvious. Varg made Dunkelheit in his basement, of course it sounds like shit!
With your logic, I could just say, that Dream Theater is garbage, because I can't fall asleep to it. And then make a lengthy video pointing out everything that makes it hard to fall asleep.
Dunkelheit is a masterpiece, and I feel that you’re missing the entire point of the song. It’s atmospheric, the repetition, shitty production quality, and vocals are all intentional.
deliberately bad is still bad
@@Shoxic666 It's about Execution, Emotion and atmosphere. Varg composed dunkelheit with cheap equipment in order to make an old, dark and dreadful atmosphere. It's intentional.
@@captainfantastic3490 atmosphere can be achieved through artistry, cheap tricks like shitty production just result in shitty production.
@@Shoxic666 OK, You don't want to listen. There are masterpieces in Black Metal with amazing production too and we hardcore fans will enjoy them all.
@@captainfantastic3490 I didn't say all black metal is automatically bad, I'm specifically saying dunkelheit is bad, and that it being bad on purpose doesn't somehow make it good.
For me Dunklheit it's not a bad song, it's ambient black metal it has to give you that feeling of darkness and repetitiveness, for me it does it's work well.
Mike would you consider a video on your music education? I think a lot of us would like to hear about the road to your quest for ultimate music knowledge. Rock on amigo 🤘🏻
I love black metal. I liked this video. Black metal fans need to learn how to not take themselves too seriously, you should be able to laugh at your own music. Dunkelhiet is one of my favourite songs ever and I found this hilarious. Keep it up mike.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Their isn't an issue with taking pride in what you listen to. Just dont be an elitist
@@thebrainless1 Exactly
Mike is an elitist though. But hey, his name IS music snob, you know what we would be getting
It’s not really a comedy video tho lmao
That's not the issue. The issue is if Dunkelheit deserves to be laughed at in the first place. Plenty of people "get" Dunkelheit, otherwise it wouldn't be as famous as it is. Mike just seemed to adopt the classic elitist approach of "If it's simple and badly produced, it sucks." It's such blatant low-hanging fruit.
It's funny how a guy in prison wrote a more memorable metal song than the ultimate music wankery masters
Actually, he only wrote dark ambient music in prison. He only had a keyboard, no guitar.
hahahahahahahahhaahahyahahahahah
Oh you're serious? pfffffftahahhahahahahaha
People who say things like "music wankery" are just creating a way to cope with their own incompetence.
"Petrucci is way more talented than I am but somehow he can't convey the same type of emotion I convey with my shitty bendy 3 note solo 🤓"
@Dragon Ball fans can't read
Your mom has a lot of substance
@@federicogonzalez8945 Then why does nobody say similar things about classical composers? It's because those are actually good.
Mike: Before you leave a...
Lots of people: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOUR OPINION IS WRONG
Every metal page ever