Underwater Ram Pump Pressure
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2022
- Will the ram pump work underwater? Does sinking the pump underwater increase the head pressure? Will Seth be eaten by a shark? Find out the answers and more in this episode of Land To House Ram Pumps underwater! I test the ram pump in a swimming pool to see if the pressure increases as the pump is sunk underwater. The pressure difference can tell if the pump is gaining more head pressure or if the hydrostatic pressure on top of the pump negates the extra head pressure.
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The first time you ever showed it working underneath the water, I was like bingo. Even if you lose a little bit of pressure, not have that tap tap tap tap disturbing the peace.
Also, what do you think of these other versions of ram pumps, where they use a tire instead of a pipe have you seen that?
I've actually spoken with that company last year. They are just now starting to send them to the United States. I think shipping is quite ridiculous at several hundred dollars. Other than that looks like they work quite well
You should change The settings for your videos in order for youtube to allow automatic translation into romanian, so that I could understand what you are saying.
That is because the water is pushing against the drive pipe from every direction, and Pascals Principle states that I'm a fluid volume under equilibrium force is transferred equally to all parts of the fluid volume, so the mass of the water transfers the force over a greater area reducing the water hammer effect within the pump.
We just built a 1” ram pump and are using it to move water up a 55’ +/- high ridge to a holding tank. The ram pump is anchored to a concrete block under water in the creek and working perfectly. (It’s SO much quieter putting it under the water) Thank you for the tests in your video - game changer!
Water pressure is main do to height. The pressure in the pipe is due to the height differences from the (water tower or the bucket) and the water at the bottom of the pool. So naturally the water in the pipe has higher pressure.
I think your source bucket should be constant y distance above the ram pump. Surface test had less height difference than the pool bottom. Same for grass ground test. Need that height to be constantly. Thanks for sharing
That was interesting, and a nice touch to have an end scene for running behind the end cards, well done.
Great video! Thanks. Please have more!
I have a few more ram pump videos in the lineup.
Your channel has reached new depths. 🤣 I must admit that I was surprised that the pressure from the water in the pool didn't provide enough resistance to the gate in that valve to slow it down and make it not work as well.
New depths. Thats funny! I knew the pump would work but did not expect a higher psi underwater.
😊
Does it maybe have to do with the angle of the ram pump that when you dropped it in the pool it wasn't flat and having a more efficient flow?
Does more pressure mean more water pumped?
I wonder if adding a weight to the flapper would mimic being underwater?
I believe underwater there is less atmospheric pressure in the head, that variable gives the added pressure.
Also, really interesting to see how fast this waste valve cycles with that much head pressure.
Could I use a spring source for this device.
Could there be a timing issue with turning the pump on and off before putting in the bottom of the pool?
I didn't expect any difference between underwater as the system is closed and not affected to external forces. I think it all comes back to the rigidity of the drive pipe. to get the full effect of the pressure pulse then it must be as rigid as possible. Even a slight deflection in the drive will cause a drop!
What got me was the difference in pressure. Had it been 2 or 3 psi sure but 10psi was a lot.
Is it possible to get high pressure from an IBC tote 275 gallons, 3’ off the ground to water my garden.? Struggling to build pressure.
Thank you for all of the great and informative videos on ram pumps. - I do have an odd or usual question. - Would there be some possible way to use some type of ram pump to recirculate clean, filtered water in an in ground swimming pool, in addition to using the pool pumps or at times when the pool pumps are not running? - Due to the enormous costs, associated with running the pool pumps continuously (year round,) especially in the seasons that the pool may be closed. - During which times, I use an external electric pump, to keep the water somewhat moving and circulating. - I have been thinking about using solar pumps, but would like to know if you had any ideas, or if a ram pump would even work for such an application. - Thank you in advance for any ideas or information. - Kind Regards!!
@Land to House the answer is due to surrounding air pressure. when you did it on top of the water you had some water and temp pressure on the pump. on the bottom of the pool you had greater air pressure in the water than what was in the pump. on the ground you had more in pump pressure than the surrounding air and the air temp was warmer.
Fascinating. Awhile back you did a video on your parent's back steps about the drive pipe angle affecting pressure, and you found a steeper angle increased pressure, and kept blowing your test rig apart (Vertical Drive Pipe Ram Pump - 2 years ago). I wonder if the steeper angle from the bucket with the pump submerged might be why the pressure increased? This suggests another test with the same head pressure for the pump but one long and gentle slope drive pipe and the second shorter and steeper drive pipe.
is it possible to put the waste valve inside the water source/container and put everthing else below it?
Hello land to house community am robert asking is there any way I can have Chace of getting 2 pairs of ram pump here in Qatar and I myself take it back home africa
What would happen if you put the waste valve on the end and distribution and pressure tank above the center tee. I would imagine same result in the pool because it’s static, but if you waste valve was pushing down stream in a creek. Would it still create a hammer but less resistance on the waste valve?
Great video mate and I like your experimental mind, I’ve made one of your pumps last week and bought the bike tube for testing next week but you reckon it’s no good in operation? Please explain mate👍
The bike tube is ineffective. I made a clear pressure tank and can observe how little the tube does.
I am from ksa
Excellent job my friend
Thank you.
I've been a subscriber for a little while enjoy your videos on both channels I seldom comment always give you a thumbs up I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge! I have a question for you. I have a Artesian well. it is 55 ft deep when the water is not running out of the well you can very easily reach and touch it. I have a very large fall going from the well. I would like to try drawing out of the well letting it free fall down to the round pump would like to discuss this with you. before I buy one I would like to make sure it would work
Does the well keep that level even if water is pulled out? You can siphon start a ram pump as long as you have the drive pipe going down hill from the water source. If the well level drops as its used there might be an issue but if it replenishes itself you will be good.
@@LandtoHouse the water level my drop a few inches but not over a couple of feet I can put the drive pipe deep enough into the well where it will not run out of water. Also I can have foot drop within a short distance. Thank you for your fast response
Can you please let us know the efficiency of the ram pump.
just a theory, since the pump works off the gas reserve in the white chamber. it would make since it would act like holding your breath under water. the ram pump never lets the gas escape, just teases it, expands and compress. I would expect more pressure the deeper. i would have expected much of a noticeable difference that shallow of water though.
I wonder if incasing the pump in cement would add more pressure.
This is kinda intressting, saw the other video about extending the wasevalve, so if you by this logic gained about 5psi in the water and about 30psi outside.
Whould burrying the pump 3 feet help, so instead of lifting the wastevalve, you add a overspill pipe lifting the water out off the hole.
Hi Seth,
What if the top end of an inclined drive pipe is also submerged in the same pool, will the pump work?
The source water needs to come from above the pool that the pump rests in. Otherwise there is no water movement.
Thank you very much for the video!
I bought one of your pumps, and we'll try it out this weekend bringing water up from the creek to the cows. Any idea how long it would last in a muddy creek?
I'm assuming it'll silt in within a couple days, unless there is a way to build it so the pressure would help it "self clean" or something
I like to use a bucket right after the supply water to help reduce the silt. That also gives an air free water source. (I will have these bucket filters for sale in a couple weeks.)
@@LandtoHouse yeah I'm not sure if it'll work in my application. The creek is slow moving and only about 10' of elevation change in a mile. So I'm trying to use it completely submerged and put the ram pump on the bottom of the creek which is only about 3-4 deep. I can dig a hole for the pump and get a couple more feet but it's probably going to silt in really fast. I'm still curious enough to try it but kinda doubt it'll work
@@isaacbell5646just thinking...🤔...
I'm not sure how many smaller pumps would be necessary but, it may be possible to connect several smaller ram pumps with successive, 'stair-stepped' delivery points (containers/buckets/250gal totes?) only slightly higher than each previous one, using "stair-stepped" delivery containers as volume-source pump feeds to artificially increase head pressure & flow for each successive ram pump, up to a final container (tote/water tower) tall enuff to cause sufficient final head pressure to send water uphill...📏🤏🏻👀🤷🏻♂️
@@westtexastll1978 yeah not sure how the volume would work there, but at that point I'll just use a submersible 2" pump an run a fire house to 1,000 gal tank and use that throughout the week if need be.
I'm pretty sure that pressure gauge is measuring the pressure DIFFERENCE between the ram pump and the outside air/water. This may be skewing the results since pressure under water will be different than pressure in air.
Since the deeper underwater, the more pressure, could you have the intake deep to pump out of a pond or lake?
I had just asked the exactly same question.
Can you test the papa ram pump underwater? I want to see if that higher quality one will operate well underwater. Maybe you could give it a 10-15’ head pressure as well? I think that’s the minimum required for that papa to work?
Hi, I’m trying to find an answer regarding my (potential) ram pump placement…..I have lots of flow but not much fall - can you tell me if extra flow can make up for not enough fall? Cheers
Because the pressure wave inside of the drive pipe is cycling back-and-forth between the source and the pump the water Flow rate is going to be limited.
The flow rate does not make up for head pressure.
@@LandtoHouse OK thanks for the prompt reply……looks like I’ll need to find more head or else use the awesome flow we have to drive a water wheel connected to a pump. Happy new year!
@@dallaspoll Happy new year. Water wheel pumps do work. Those are on my to do list someday.
Can you put a pipe on the valve pushing water out so that it can return to the source so no wastage? I have a pool that has a fall of 1000mm to where the pool pump is. I plan to remove the pool pump and install a small ram pump to cycle the water from the weir back into a sand filter with a overflow back into the pool. My pool is now a fish pond.
So either I have a return pipe from the non return valve or I install a tank and keep the pump underwater with a return overflow pipe on the tank back to the pool. Would appreciate your input.
Ésta es una gran pregunta, lastima que no te la contesta, yo estoy en el mismo dilema y he pasado años tratando de resolverlo y no he podido, sin embargo no me rindo, ya que no pretendo utilizar ninguna bomba eléctrica en el sistema y el reto es producir el retorno del agua desperdiciada a la fuente de abastecimiento.
That was super cool with the pool and to wat smarter than a fool! !
A video I have wanted to make for a few years now.
can this work on aquarium tank?i mean if the water intake pipe is just at the surface of the water,and it overflows filling the water intake pipe,is that possible?
That's a totally good question it must be to be answered for the pro!!
Very interested to see the test results. What i think is that pressure on the waste valve will be nearly the same as the source pressure..
According to AI it would be affected by something called hydrostatic force and wouldn't work. I want to try it though
You should take that bit at the end where you are underwater with the pump thumping and cut it with the Sea Shanty song... seems to be popular in Reels and Shorts lately... 🙂
That is a fun idea. I can add that to my tiktok video.
Water has been used in engineering as a medium for dampening unwanted movement, from the looks of it, by dampening the vibration from the cycling it has in turned allowed the pump to run more efficiently and have an increased output. Due to the dampening effect of the water, the pressure increase of 3 feet of water, would not produce 10 more PSI. An example of this dampening is in the use of Tuned Mass Dampeners used in keeping skyscrapers steady.
The second run of the test i let the pump go underwater and on top I tried to hold drive pipe and pump very still. But had the same psi difference. Odd.
Have a ram pump power a smaller ram pump below the first. Get some chaos going in the system. See what happens. I’m gonna do it but I wouldn’t make a video near the quality of yours. Also to salvage the purge water let only 1 solar panel about 100w and 1 cheap battery power a water pump. No extra energy past this allowed. How long would it run?
I have actually done a test with 1 pump waste water powering another. The second thing would spend on storage tank size and sun for the day.
Interesting... I have an idea that I need to move water to the back part of my property - is there any reason I can't set up water catchment off my sheds and fill up three big IBC totes and then run that water into a ram pump into a sink hole next to it (which allows me to put it significantly further below the water level) and then pump that water back out to the back part of my property and fill up an IBC Tote out there to water sheep? I can use my pressurized water here at the house to top up the supply tanks during the times of low rainfall. What do you think?
You can do that but the waste water is a real issue when your source is limited. Only 10% of that water will be pumped and 90% is lost.
@@LandtoHouse so, the water coming past the gate will go away... hmmm, hadn't thought of this. maybe the expedient thing to do is to drop an electric water pump into the bottom of a tote and pump it out to the tote on the back of the property. wonder if a pump can push water through 1200' of exit pipe?
I have an Idea to not waste water. Would this work if I had a pond about 5ft deep and put the pump at the bottom of the pond and then placed a hose on a float to feed the pump from the surface of the pond.
Yes please. Would this work? It would be amazing if someone could try this
@@daftfox well since I can't get a response I will be trying it myself here in a few weeks
Yes but slightly below the surface. You want to make sure you dont get air bubbles in there.
Maybe higher psi but less volume?
Because mine's alandeka stays below by nobsierra and only throws out the water
Bro, higher bucket, higher pressure,
Low pressure or head on waste valve higher pressure.
Haha, first you had a Yeti, now you have a Shark. You are doing a dangerous job, Seth! 😉
Its a tough job but somebody has to do it!
Maybe the viscosity of the water all over the valve decrease the force it closes
Even the density of the water can dissipate the wave pressure into it alot more then in the air
I am wondering if the reason the pressure increased more when the pump was under water was due to the amount of time the pump ran. If you timed it from the time you started the pump until you started taking the pump out of the water it had a few extra seconds while you lifted it out of the water before you could turn it off.
Possible but it took 30 seconds to gain 10psi roughly so to have an additional 10psi in the same time is odd.
You had more angle drop on the pipe when you sunk the pump into the water.
Great video, Seth! Btw., the first value is 28psi (@3:26 you can see that the needle is exactly on the 2nd division line after the 20psi mark, and you have 4psi/Div). But this means still 8psi more in the under-water-test. Explanation: The final pressure depends on the velocity the water reaches just before the Waste Valve shuts close. The velocity of objects (when sliding down) depends also on their path (see Brachistochrone curve). If yout put the pump down to the ground, your Drive Pipe also gets steeper, and hence closer to the Brachistochrone curve. That makes the water in the Drive Pipe faster and you reach a slightly higher end pressure. Nevertheless, the effect of the 3ft more drop in the last experiement increases the pressure much more dramatic.
That's awesome info man. I'm always learning something new.
Looks like it's just because the bucket to pump height is different in the first 2 tests. If you lowered the bucket the same 3 feet it should be exactly the same, right?!
The idea is that the added head pressure would be negated by the hydrostatic pressure in the pool. So keeping the bucket in the same place is required to test this.
I think you might not be recording the pressure of the pump but instead you are recording the pressure of being under water. EDIT: That's not quite right. 😂 I didn't realize the chart I was looking at was in meters but I still believe the difference might have something to do with the pressure of the water not quite being taken into account correctly.
🙏❤️🙏
Its easy your pool water put head pressure on the checkvalve like if it have more weight to it so its harder to open and release the water. Only my 2 cents.
I expected different results too. The pump underwater still had to overcome the pressure of the pool water at that depth.
Really the only thing I can think of is that the waste valve is admitting a slight amount of air while closing with each cycle (not enough to enter the pressure chamber.though) and cushioning the pulse.
Perhaps submerging it only enough to cover the waste valve with water will eliminate this variable?
My ram pump incorporates a 'snifter' valve to admit a small amount of air on each cycle, demonstrating there is a vacuum drawn for a short period of each cycle.
I do want to use the pump in a small amount of water as a way to reduce the sound of the click. I could test the pressure there too.
@@LandtoHouse Just add a short piece of pipe to the top of the clack valve. It will cause a slight reduction in vertical distance to the source but will insure a water tight seal above the valve.
@6:30mins there is a humming bird on the bush behind you!
A diver would easily understand this, the more depth you go the more pressure you got, if you don't know how to equalize, your ears drums will burst in just a few meters underwater.. It's natural, and I bet the water output are just the same because of the pressure of the pipe on top of the water has automatically equalize to the atmosphere outside.
wonder if the 'papa pump' will work under water also...?
I bet it will. My next project is setting up an intake that will pull enough water to run the papa pump. So more tests can be done with that pump.
@@LandtoHouse Nicee, also another project you could try is to get or make a Venturi Water Pump and connect it to the delivery pipe of the Ram Pump, making it collect the waste water. Wonder if that would actually work?
On the top of the water it was 3 feets higher then on the bottom. So potential energy of the water was lower..
There is an additional 3 feet of drop underwater BUT there is also 3 feet of hydrostatic pressure on top of the pump.
pressure is higher under water is probably because the water prevents the 'air chamber' from expanding every cycle
Someone got some chickens😁🐓🐔
Not mine but a friend. The kids and I swim there from time to time.
Which means you can quiet down the ram pump by putting it into some water... Thats good to know. Even though that information is useless for me. Anyway good video.
I do hope to make a video on reducing the ram pump sound.
❤👍🐺
I would really love to see if it works at depth. Same experiment, but the water is 34 foot deep. As we all know pressure doubles at 33 foot. The question would be how far down can it go before the water pressure equalizes the force on the valve to pop open.
The higher pressure underwater was because of the few feet extra of drop when you pushed the pump on the floor of the pool.
Back up your brain, you know how these work! For every inch you went down in depth you lost a psi in pressure compared to open air outside the pool..
Your bucket source stayed fixed, but your drop gained as you sank it into the pool, thus more velocity and head height.
How far off the ground is your bucket?
In other words, yes the water resistance should be compared to the outside ground level psi and the in the pool level psi.
The top of the pool water psi is lower due to less head because your source bucket did not go up higher by 2 feet, but when you put ram valve on ground and on pool bottom you did gain 2 feet of head!
You forgot to use a stick so that you don't get wet.
Science is just fucking around but also writing down the results.
In this case youtubeing the results.
No, no, no... It doesn't increase the pressure as you submerge it in water.
As the slope of the water coming from the source increases, the pressure increases. (Height difference) .ok. 🤔
Every fathom you gain 1 atmosphere
34ft fresh water = 1 atmosphere, 1 fathom = 6 ft. 5 2/3 fathoms to gain 1 atmosphere.
Pyramid pressure. 🤔
I came here to see a ram pump and a shark.. i only see one of those things, this is an example of false advertising!
The shark is yet to come. Beach vacation video might have that shark you are looking for.
@@LandtoHouse Even an inflatable shark would do.. you promised a shark, not a real shark!
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