Speed is arguably the best stat in the game since it’s both offensive and defensive; it helps you double and prevent you from being doubled. Wary Fighter negates this completely, forcing the player to change how they engage Wary Fighter Generals. Yes, Hammers and Armorslayers exist but Wary Fighter absolutely helps enemy Armor Units have a more established presence. Benny kinda always wants it but it has a niche to patch up units that get speed-screwed. And YES, units can get speed-screwed; not everyone in Conquest is fast.
Not really. Speed is certainly important, but it's a threshold stat: either a unit reaches the benchmark to get to doubling territory or they don't. Outside that criteria, each individual point is mostly meaningless besides providing a bit of extra avoid (unlike say, each point of defense or HP letting you take that much more punishment on enemy phase, or each point of strength or magic contributing to 2 extra damage if you're doubling). Very few units actually get so speed screwed that they regularly get doubled or cannot be patched up through standard stat stacking means, let alone enough to go out of their way to dip into General for Wary Fighter. Benny is the exception to this, and even he doesn't need the skill to survive his best matchups if he stacks enough defense. Btw, movement is the best stat because high movement is always useful in any situation, even if the unit contributes nothing to combat.
"Bro why are all the busted skills in tier 1" I think it's because IS has a habit of overrating proc skills and overlooking small numerical bonuses that nonetheless add up or push you over a threshold anyway.
I think it's the opposite, actually; they wanted skills to be relevant from the getgo in this game, compared to Awakening or even the Gamecube games, so all the procs and weird niche things are promoted skills, while the flat effects are mostly available early on.
Tomebreaker is actually my favorite to use. Felicia/Jacob solos the entire left side of mages and Orochi in that map. There are multiple other maps where it's incredibly useful, like the Shura ship, Zolan's, Iago's. Replicate (which I think is the best skill in the game) + Tomebreaker Jacob is the best mage killer in the game free. It creates an argument for staying in that class for longer than you normally would imo
Late comment, but Replicate Jakob isn't free by any meams. It takes Ninja F!Corrin marriage. Which isn't a bad investment or way to go, but it takes one of the potentiallt most potent and in-demand resource in the game. Saying it's free is a bit misleading.
Hey! Lunatic Conquest is my favorite FE game to date simply because of how meaningful every choice feels. I love the video series and I agree with a lot of your takes on skills, but I have one issue, recording volume. Zoran and you have very different volumes when recording or speaking, leading to one person being really loud and the other barely audible (I'm exaggerating, but I think you get the point). Please don't take this criticism personally, I deeply enjoy your analysis and would love to see more of it.
I wanted to know where you guys had quick salve lmao I remember having weary fighter on a bond unit, it was an interesting experience, I did use a brave weapon to make up the loss of doubling overall, I enjoyed where you placed these skills, and I'll keep this in mind for future bond units and the like, thanks for the ideas!
Yooo Bowbreaker is my love child, aside for making CQ Chapter 24 easier, it also makes Chapter 23 easier. Leo or Ophelia with Bowbreaker can counter those Snipers with Lunge at the beginning of the chapter, the Snipers at the top of The Great Wall, and with Lightning you can have 100% on Takumi and kill him without risking a counterattack.
You can also just get 100 against him without bowbreaker though because of Malefic Aura. And those Archers are really just Xander food, same as like 99% of the rest of the map.
I can’t believe I just watched this entire 6-7 hour tier list in one day! Fates was my very first entry into the FE series and I really didn’t understand it at all mechanically. It’s been a long time since then and I’m excited to jump back in and really test my skills since then on the harder difficulties, thanks for this very informative series! My only question though, how useful is Trample in the other routes? Is it still meta-defining in them? I’d imagine cavalier enemies and other mounts are much more common in those but it’s been awhile so maybe I’m misremembering.
I'd say that Trample is still good in Birthright but it definitely isn't quite as good in Revelation. I mean, it's still FIVE damage so it's never going to be a bad skill, but the really difficult to kill enemies in Rev lategame are often also mounted. Master ninjas and whatnot are already still pretty frail so the +5 damage doesn't help too much, but against like a 25/25 bulk Dark Knight, the trample buff would be helfpul. Still a great skill and Malig Knight is still a broken class in both routes so you can't really do wrong by obtaining it.
I want to say something about Pass, Soleil paralogue Boss have pass at base and It's a Mercenary what means you don't have to put Niles or Shura in a bad class to use It in endgame.
I think you're massively overvaluing Swordbreaker Ryoma isn't that scary, I think a lot of players have had 1 bad experience with a Corrin who wasn't good enough to win against him and are now afraid for life, but the majority of Corrins in a lot of classes at even 20-15 have a >50% chance to beat him with just a little effort, any and all Physical Corrins are almost a free win aside from like Outlaw As long as you can stack enough speed to avoid getting doubled (31 Speed on Corrin after the first turn, since Draconic Hex still works on him it's just weaker) you can easily just spend a few Concoctions to win, otherwise you just have to not get double Astra, while if he doesn't double you just win The only classes that are really afraid are classes like Sorc, Dark Knight, and Strategist that can sometimes either miss the threshold to not get doubled or are too frail, otherwise (and I've tested this) average Corrin having gone: to level 20 Nohr Princess, 5 Nohr Noble, and then level 15 of their class with nothing else wins in an absurd number of classes, and that's an under leveled Corrin, I really don't understand how people are still afraid of the Ryoma duel, losing it is surprisingly hard to lose if you tonic/meal up and just buy a couple concoctions Obviously Swordbreaker saves you the Concoction but Shurikenbreaker gets you more gold by getting the chest in that chapter
Sword breaker is basically a chapter that would be cancer that you now guaranteed never have to worry about. The thing that made us put it in nice to have instead of niche is also because it’s easy to access with all corrins. With m Corrin you can marry Beruka or Camilla and with F Corrin you can friendship with those units or marry percy
Also when it comes to the chest, shurikenbreaker does help against the ninjas but they still are likely to hit you and there’s still a lot of master of arms and whatnot in that map and other units that don’t use shurikens so it’s not as unilateral of a clear strategy.
At the end of the day I appreciate your comment though! I love discussing fates and as a result I make tier lists because it lets us have these discussions in a productive and easily visually represented medium
@@lagspike7763 I'm not sure it actually would be cancer, though admittedly the current testing I've done is pretty limited, I plan to do a full test of the Ryoma fight with some harder metrics and see how it goes, because I'm almost certain it's like free, in almost any class, stayed tuned in MK for the full results sometime But yeah at the end of the day discussing Fates is always just plain fun, it's probably, well not probably, just is the most engaging and depth filled Fire Emblem game which makes it a lot of fun to talk about
Puissance is my personal favorite - gives Effie a niche where 9/10 she's breaking down walls by getting over thresholds with the +3 boost that doesn't care about the enemies defense. It's probably the reason why Wary Fighter can work on her - you gotta lean into the strengths of her main class line.
@@ChaolaoFueChi just wanna point out that it took us 6 hours to go through like 70 skills. Nobody wants to see a 10 hour video where 90% of the skills are ones nobody has used or cares about. Besides, I try to stick to making fates content because fates is at least for me by far the most polished and enjoyable gameplay product out of the modern FE era, and this leads to me wanting to make content about it because the difficulty and depth of the mechanics would lead to people wanting to know more about it.
@@lagspike7763 Yesh, that many hours, well that's all good. You don't really have to do my comment, and yeah makes sense that the skills that are useless aren't gonna be cared.
A bit surprised Luna is higher than Dragon Fang, given its lower proc rate, accessed at a higher level, and in general adds less damage than Dragon Fang. I'd put Luna at top of Bottom tier. Edit: 1:10:10 I would say that Bow Knight is Xander's best class (high speed + shurikenbreaker).
Bow Knight Xander is nice but access to Bow Knight means you have to marry him to Selena which means no HP+5 or Sol from Charlotte or you have to get him an A+ with Laslow which takes time and you're better off having Laslow do his own thing with his 8 movement as a Bow Knight. Besides, Shurikenbreaker is nice but Xander can stack up to so much fucking defense that ninjas just don't want to attack him.
As far as I'm aware dragon fang actually has a lower proc rate and for the most part it's early in the game when you're going to get the skill when it's the most inconvenient because you don't want it porcing because that means you miss out on say dual strikes which you don't want because that could delay things like weapon experience and XP and while you do get Luna a fair bit later it just cuts defense which is useful against units with high defense and also has a slightly higher proc rate of skill% instead of Skill% x 0.75
Deathblow requires Oni Chieftain, which requires an Oni Chieftain M!Corrin, or playing 🤢 revelations. Then again, Corrin pair up for Supportive would do wonders for a Crit build as is
@@quinnlee-miller9792I'm doing a death blow Odin which complements Corrin Odin and Kana's growth spread especially if you have a balanced Corrin. I'd definitely see how it would be way more difficult for a physical unit but thankfully, Axe access fixes arthur/charlotte's helplessness especially if supported by an S rank 🌽 For Corrin, Yato giving stat bonuses just for being in your inventory is a solid boost while his physical backpack spouse wouldn't make E rank axes as bad of a hell. You could use an arms scroll if you're later in the game but this can all be avoided if you're able to heart seal as early as the first heart seal It's a commitment, of course, but death blow's +30crit with Yato's natural +10 is very worth it alone (and you won't really have to worry about sword rank if you focused on axes then)
Great video! Would you recommend Selena A+ supporting either Peri for cavalier or Camilla/Beruka for wyvern rider? They both seem like good options for her, but I’m torn between which one to choose... They both offer great skills, but cavalier plays well into her well-rounded growth rates while wyvern will boost her middling attack.
From personal experience both are excellent. I'd say wyvern edges out because she's stupidly tanky and doesn't get doubled easily because of her growths. Wyvern Selena with beastkiller is actually busted as an anti Kitsune/Pegasus wall.
Wyvern Selena is amazing. The fact that you have a reasonably tanky foot unit that you can turn in a flyer that still has a very good speed stat, is just great. Personally, I'd choose Wyvern Selena over Beruka every day of the week, because Speed is so important. Not only for doubling, but also for not getting doubled. The only downside is her weapon ranks really.
I'm not really down for it because I don't use DLC often and when I do it's just put nyx into witch for dank 8 mag 5 speed pair up and never use her in combat and that's it. A lot of the DLC classes and skills are really pushed and personally I'm just not that interested in it.
@@lagspike7763 Fair enough. I sometimes but out the path-bonus dread fighter and dark flier items on rev since anyone playing rev will have one of the other two, but aside from that yeah they bust the early game wide open.
Alone in a vacuum its mid, due to the sheer strength a unit already has to achieve to make it useable. When talking about building up specific super units in vacuum (ie without considering the entire army backing them up) its much better. Generay good skill, but only in conjunction with an already trained, good unit with a handful of other key skills, vs some other skills that are just universally applicable
I'm not quite sure I understand. We used this tiermaker template that I used here. tiermaker.com/user/794143 If you're not sure what a skill does you can just look it up.
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Speed is arguably the best stat in the game since it’s both offensive and defensive; it helps you double and prevent you from being doubled. Wary Fighter negates this completely, forcing the player to change how they engage Wary Fighter Generals. Yes, Hammers and Armorslayers exist but Wary Fighter absolutely helps enemy Armor Units have a more established presence. Benny kinda always wants it but it has a niche to patch up units that get speed-screwed. And YES, units can get speed-screwed; not everyone in Conquest is fast.
Not really. Speed is certainly important, but it's a threshold stat: either a unit reaches the benchmark to get to doubling territory or they don't. Outside that criteria, each individual point is mostly meaningless besides providing a bit of extra avoid (unlike say, each point of defense or HP letting you take that much more punishment on enemy phase, or each point of strength or magic contributing to 2 extra damage if you're doubling).
Very few units actually get so speed screwed that they regularly get doubled or cannot be patched up through standard stat stacking means, let alone enough to go out of their way to dip into General for Wary Fighter. Benny is the exception to this, and even he doesn't need the skill to survive his best matchups if he stacks enough defense.
Btw, movement is the best stat because high movement is always useful in any situation, even if the unit contributes nothing to combat.
fighting for my life to pay attention to why rally str is better than rally spd bc heritors of arcadia goes hard. great video!
LMAO what a way to describe it thank you so much for this hilarious comment
"Bro why are all the busted skills in tier 1"
I think it's because IS has a habit of overrating proc skills and overlooking small numerical bonuses that nonetheless add up or push you over a threshold anyway.
I think it's the opposite, actually; they wanted skills to be relevant from the getgo in this game, compared to Awakening or even the Gamecube games, so all the procs and weird niche things are promoted skills, while the flat effects are mostly available early on.
Tomebreaker is actually my favorite to use. Felicia/Jacob solos the entire left side of mages and Orochi in that map. There are multiple other maps where it's incredibly useful, like the Shura ship, Zolan's, Iago's. Replicate (which I think is the best skill in the game) + Tomebreaker Jacob is the best mage killer in the game free. It creates an argument for staying in that class for longer than you normally would imo
Late comment, but Replicate Jakob isn't free by any meams. It takes Ninja F!Corrin marriage. Which isn't a bad investment or way to go, but it takes one of the potentiallt most potent and in-demand resource in the game. Saying it's free is a bit misleading.
Hey! Lunatic Conquest is my favorite FE game to date simply because of how meaningful every choice feels. I love the video series and I agree with a lot of your takes on skills, but I have one issue, recording volume. Zoran and you have very different volumes when recording or speaking, leading to one person being really loud and the other barely audible (I'm exaggerating, but I think you get the point). Please don't take this criticism personally, I deeply enjoy your analysis and would love to see more of it.
I know I know I hate listening to this damn video it's so bad. If it's any consolation, my more recent videos tend to have better audio balance Q_Q
I wanted to know where you guys had quick salve lmao
I remember having weary fighter on a bond unit, it was an interesting experience, I did use a brave weapon to make up the loss of doubling
overall, I enjoyed where you placed these skills, and I'll keep this in mind for future bond units and the like, thanks for the ideas!
Luna is entirely for making FE 8 Wyvern Knights in Fates without the glitch.
Great video! Would love to see more tier lists like this in the future, maybe for personal skills or something.
Yooo Bowbreaker is my love child, aside for making CQ Chapter 24 easier, it also makes Chapter 23 easier. Leo or Ophelia with Bowbreaker can counter those Snipers with Lunge at the beginning of the chapter, the Snipers at the top of The Great Wall, and with Lightning you can have 100% on Takumi and kill him without risking a counterattack.
You can also just get 100 against him without bowbreaker though because of Malefic Aura. And those Archers are really just Xander food, same as like 99% of the rest of the map.
I liked the part where Zoran said "Uuuummmmmmm"
Ikr that’s my signature line
I can’t believe I just watched this entire 6-7 hour tier list in one day! Fates was my very first entry into the FE series and I really didn’t understand it at all mechanically. It’s been a long time since then and I’m excited to jump back in and really test my skills since then on the harder difficulties, thanks for this very informative series!
My only question though, how useful is Trample in the other routes? Is it still meta-defining in them? I’d imagine cavalier enemies and other mounts are much more common in those but it’s been awhile so maybe I’m misremembering.
I'd say that Trample is still good in Birthright but it definitely isn't quite as good in Revelation. I mean, it's still FIVE damage so it's never going to be a bad skill, but the really difficult to kill enemies in Rev lategame are often also mounted. Master ninjas and whatnot are already still pretty frail so the +5 damage doesn't help too much, but against like a 25/25 bulk Dark Knight, the trample buff would be helfpul. Still a great skill and Malig Knight is still a broken class in both routes so you can't really do wrong by obtaining it.
I want to say something about Pass, Soleil paralogue Boss have pass at base and It's a Mercenary what means you don't have to put Niles or Shura in a bad class to use It in endgame.
is that only on Lunatic or do they have it on Hard?
Both
another case not paralogue locked but late a good amount of the falcoknight in Hinokas chapter
I think you're massively overvaluing Swordbreaker
Ryoma isn't that scary, I think a lot of players have had 1 bad experience with a Corrin who wasn't good enough to win against him and are now afraid for life, but the majority of Corrins in a lot of classes at even 20-15 have a >50% chance to beat him with just a little effort, any and all Physical Corrins are almost a free win aside from like Outlaw
As long as you can stack enough speed to avoid getting doubled (31 Speed on Corrin after the first turn, since Draconic Hex still works on him it's just weaker) you can easily just spend a few Concoctions to win, otherwise you just have to not get double Astra, while if he doesn't double you just win
The only classes that are really afraid are classes like Sorc, Dark Knight, and Strategist that can sometimes either miss the threshold to not get doubled or are too frail, otherwise (and I've tested this) average Corrin having gone: to level 20 Nohr Princess, 5 Nohr Noble, and then level 15 of their class with nothing else wins in an absurd number of classes, and that's an under leveled Corrin, I really don't understand how people are still afraid of the Ryoma duel, losing it is surprisingly hard to lose if you tonic/meal up and just buy a couple concoctions
Obviously Swordbreaker saves you the Concoction but Shurikenbreaker gets you more gold by getting the chest in that chapter
Sword breaker is basically a chapter that would be cancer that you now guaranteed never have to worry about. The thing that made us put it in nice to have instead of niche is also because it’s easy to access with all corrins. With m Corrin you can marry Beruka or Camilla and with F Corrin you can friendship with those units or marry percy
Also when it comes to the chest, shurikenbreaker does help against the ninjas but they still are likely to hit you and there’s still a lot of master of arms and whatnot in that map and other units that don’t use shurikens so it’s not as unilateral of a clear strategy.
At the end of the day I appreciate your comment though! I love discussing fates and as a result I make tier lists because it lets us have these discussions in a productive and easily visually represented medium
@@lagspike7763 I'm not sure it actually would be cancer, though admittedly the current testing I've done is pretty limited, I plan to do a full test of the Ryoma fight with some harder metrics and see how it goes, because I'm almost certain it's like free, in almost any class, stayed tuned in MK for the full results sometime
But yeah at the end of the day discussing Fates is always just plain fun, it's probably, well not probably, just is the most engaging and depth filled Fire Emblem game which makes it a lot of fun to talk about
I can attest to making Corrin a GK and Ryouma did so little damage he did 0 when using Astra
2:02:40 Ah, but capturing the C.9 (or, even better, C.11 for instant promotion level) gives you access to Rally Luck before chapter 23.
Yeah and they’re not terrible as I said but you really could (and probably should) be doing better than them
@@lagspike7763 Holy catfish, that was a fast response. Impressive
@@theleftfootedsultan I respond as soon as possible when anyone comments because I like to interact with the community it's just that simple
Are you planning on ranking personal skills? Also great videos 😁
That would be great. There's so much to say on personal skills and honestly, I know far less about that than the regular skills.
Vow of Friendship is going into insta S-tier I bet
Aching Blood is SS tier
Puissance
is my personal favorite - gives Effie a niche where 9/10 she's breaking down walls by getting over thresholds with the +3 boost that doesn't care about the enemies defense. It's probably the reason why Wary Fighter can work on her - you gotta lean into the strengths of her main class line.
@@hennyzhi2261 it’s good but worse than aching blood
All I know is my favorite thing to do is making crit/sol bot Selena and Crit bot Beruka + Takumi when playing birthright/Rev
amazing thumbnail
I need to work on using rallies more, and not just on Laslow/Shigure.
I wanna see you rank the entire, like I mean the entire whole skills in FEH, Awakening, Birthright/Conquest, etc. Echos... maybe?
That would be hell to do you couldn’t even find the shit you wanna find easily
@@lagspike7763 hehehe! Yeah, that's true. It be hell and difficult.
@@ChaolaoFueChi just wanna point out that it took us 6 hours to go through like 70 skills. Nobody wants to see a 10 hour video where 90% of the skills are ones nobody has used or cares about. Besides, I try to stick to making fates content because fates is at least for me by far the most polished and enjoyable gameplay product out of the modern FE era, and this leads to me wanting to make content about it because the difficulty and depth of the mechanics would lead to people wanting to know more about it.
@@lagspike7763 Yesh, that many hours, well that's all good. You don't really have to do my comment, and yeah makes sense that the skills that are useless aren't gonna be cared.
A bit surprised Luna is higher than Dragon Fang, given its lower proc rate, accessed at a higher level, and in general adds less damage than Dragon Fang. I'd put Luna at top of Bottom tier.
Edit: 1:10:10 I would say that Bow Knight is Xander's best class (high speed + shurikenbreaker).
Bow Knight Xander is nice but access to Bow Knight means you have to marry him to Selena which means no HP+5 or Sol from Charlotte or you have to get him an A+ with Laslow which takes time and you're better off having Laslow do his own thing with his 8 movement as a Bow Knight. Besides, Shurikenbreaker is nice but Xander can stack up to so much fucking defense that ninjas just don't want to attack him.
@@lagspike7763 don't you get sol access by marrying Selena though?
As far as I'm aware dragon fang actually has a lower proc rate and for the most part it's early in the game when you're going to get the skill when it's the most inconvenient because you don't want it porcing because that means you miss out on say dual strikes which you don't want because that could delay things like weapon experience and XP and while you do get Luna a fair bit later it just cuts defense which is useful against units with high defense and also has a slightly higher proc rate of skill% instead of Skill% x 0.75
@@MegaScytheman
You can get sol from both Selena and Charlotte. Of those 2, it's better to get sol from charrlotte.
def death blow underrated, like u can get a charlotte or an arthur build with death blow and gamble to make a one shot machine
Deathblow requires Oni Chieftain, which requires an Oni Chieftain M!Corrin, or playing 🤢 revelations.
Then again, Corrin pair up for Supportive would do wonders for a Crit build as is
@@quinnlee-miller9792I'm doing a death blow Odin which complements Corrin Odin and Kana's growth spread especially if you have a balanced Corrin.
I'd definitely see how it would be way more difficult for a physical unit but thankfully, Axe access fixes arthur/charlotte's helplessness especially if supported by an S rank 🌽
For Corrin, Yato giving stat bonuses just for being in your inventory is a solid boost while his physical backpack spouse wouldn't make E rank axes as bad of a hell. You could use an arms scroll if you're later in the game but this can all be avoided if you're able to heart seal as early as the first heart seal
It's a commitment, of course, but death blow's +30crit with Yato's natural +10 is very worth it alone (and you won't really have to worry about sword rank if you focused on axes then)
Great video! Would you recommend Selena A+ supporting either Peri for cavalier or Camilla/Beruka for wyvern rider? They both seem like good options for her, but I’m torn between which one to choose...
They both offer great skills, but cavalier plays well into her well-rounded growth rates while wyvern will boost her middling attack.
From personal experience both are excellent. I'd say wyvern edges out because she's stupidly tanky and doesn't get doubled easily because of her growths. Wyvern Selena with beastkiller is actually busted as an anti Kitsune/Pegasus wall.
Wyvern selena yeah
Wyvern Selena is amazing. The fact that you have a reasonably tanky foot unit that you can turn in a flyer that still has a very good speed stat, is just great. Personally, I'd choose Wyvern Selena over Beruka every day of the week, because Speed is so important. Not only for doubling, but also for not getting doubled. The only downside is her weapon ranks really.
So, is there any plan to go ahead and tier the path bonus/dlc skills just for the heck of it?
I'm not really down for it because I don't use DLC often and when I do it's just put nyx into witch for dank 8 mag 5 speed pair up and never use her in combat and that's it. A lot of the DLC classes and skills are really pushed and personally I'm just not that interested in it.
@@lagspike7763 Fair enough. I sometimes but out the path-bonus dread fighter and dark flier items on rev since anyone playing rev will have one of the other two, but aside from that yeah they bust the early game wide open.
Music way too loud. Otherwise very informative and inspiring
Sorry for that
Why would you have vantage so low when ive seen you fellas use it in builds over and over as one of the core skills?
I don't use it but it's more that it's good but you can do damage for a lot less headache.
Alone in a vacuum its mid, due to the sheer strength a unit already has to achieve to make it useable. When talking about building up specific super units in vacuum (ie without considering the entire army backing them up) its much better. Generay good skill, but only in conjunction with an already trained, good unit with a handful of other key skills, vs some other skills that are just universally applicable
the music is a little too loud
Tytyty
Thanks for your effort. Is there a link that i can point out my mouse to see the names of skills of this website for your construction?
I'm not quite sure I understand. We used this tiermaker template that I used here.
tiermaker.com/user/794143
If you're not sure what a skill does you can just look it up.