Sail Life - Removing the rudder from my sailboat - DIY sailboat repair
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2018
- In this video, I drop (remove) the rudder aboard Athena. Surprisingly the rudder from a 38 ft sailboat is heavy - very heavy!
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"... that it will vacate the premises." LOL! Love your humor! On a separate note, VERY impressed with the quality of the videos and the amount of information you have in them!
You, the hole and the rudder was the funniest thing I've seen in ages. Fabulous!
Yeah, I agree !!!!!!!
Was the hole really necessary?
Oh hey! I love your channel too!! This day is just getting better and better knowing some of my favorite TH-cam's follow each other :D
davide nannini, how else would it be possible to remove the rudder then? Lifting the boat up?
Behold and woe! Hardy Northmen are no diggers. :)
I’ve decided to tackonlabel Sunday as “Madsday”. I don’t think you planned to be so funny but this one had me screaming and holding my sides. Especially when the rudder was falling into the hole. Ava has gotten her Prince Charming!
"Nothing worth doing is ever easy.". Not sure if that is reassurance... But, your cool headed commitment should impress ANYONE! ;)
I love the way you dropped that rudder. Very entertaining.
I think I speak for everyone when i say never worry about a video being boring, we would happily watch you watching paint dry! Love the channel, inspirational for my soon to copy lifestyle and love the AVE references - coooohrntaaakt!
Andy Dufrane did just fine with a spoon lol...Mads, nothing is ever easy on old boats as you know...looking good...we haven't had much Jerkyll lately...love him!!!
long time watcher,first time comment. love the channel. just sandblast and epoxy the rudder arm. Surface rust does not degrade the strength of the arm. Also, do not underestimate the power of a heating torch. Looks like in Denmark, just get the temp up to 70 degrees, the pieces will probably fall apart! Thanks for allowing us to be a part of your project.
Oh god I needed that, the clank of the shovel had me choking with laughter during breakfast, hilarious, well done
As soon as you said dig a hole I thought 'frozen ground'. As soon as you said thawing I thought 'heating pad'. You obviously need to consult me BEFORE you start these projects!
;)))))))
After you dropped the rudder and started digging I was sure you were going to bury it! Rudder, RIP...
Keep up the good work. Very enjoyable videos.
Stainless 316 is the only way to go. Mild steel on a boat will only create problems and look terrible in time. Great video and fantastic sense of humor.
1:57 That' exactly what happened to James on SV Triteia, when he was halfway from California to Hawaii. Good idea to check on it!
Digging, The new favorite hobby.... RIP sander!
Absolutely go for the custom SS bling, always a great show and tell. "This should be easy" ha ha, this it he best jinxed guarantee
Hahahah 12:38 I can just hear your enthusiasm fall apart realizing the grounds frozen... that editing was perfect! Really gave me a hearty laugh xD. Love the content Mads!!
As to your next video, just do whichever project makes you happy most. I’ll enjoy watching either! Thanks
Sail Life: Ha! Famous last words, Mads? " _Nothing_ further to stop this thing (the rudder) from coming out..."
Just _frozen_ ground!
IMO, keep on keepin' on w/ the rudder. Have to know why that thing is so-o-o frikin' heavy!
Another thumbs up for another great vid!
Well, moving on to the immediate question, and if you are still reading these comments: Use your heat pad on your rudder for a bit and drill a 10 mm hole or two at the bottom edge and see if water comes out in quantity. If it does, drill a few more holes to drain most of the water so that you can transport it to your family's heated shop. And, If you've got the bucks ($$$) for stainless, I'd go with bronze or silicon bronze. Boat builders generally build their struts for prop shafts out of it, not stainless steel.
Oh Yes, keep the quips coming, they make my week!
The best video by far! The safety squint had me in stiches
Apparently, I’m the first one to vote, Engine Compartment, but I believe in starting and completing projects one at a time... whenever possible. No need to have too many irons on the fire.
The shovel scene was classic! I laughed. Also, I fully agree with your hatch-orientation logic. If following convention is going to make life difficult, do something else.
Great video, Mads. Keep up the hard work!
The videos are getting more and more entertaining all the time. 👍
Hi Mads
a couple of opinions. Do the painting last. if you paint first you might destroy your paint job when you re-install the rudder. If need be. Do it in sections. Areas where the rudder and steering components are in your way and engine bay last. a piece of stainless steel that big and machining would cost a small fortune. A rule of thumb in the aviation maintenance industry. if you have one and a half to three threads protruding through the lock nut. That will be satisfactory. A good machine shop while cleaning the part could mill the end cap down to give you more threads or remove the old bolts and replace them with longer new ones. I would go with the new bolts. We all have different opinions. Do the one YOU feel is right.
“AKA, Violence.” 😂
I know your hole is done but I think soaking with water before the heat would’ve worked better. More muddy though.
As far as what to do next? Whatever you want Mads. You’re fun to watch. 🐬
Mads, get the rudder arm sand blasted and painted. It will last 30 more years. Have the machine shop check it for cracks. The rudder stop is easy to make yourself. Just get a piece of steel or ss and bend the end. Bolt on a piece of metal for the rudder stop. Oh to remove the bolts, grind off the heads, heat with torch, support on immovable surface (ground), bang out bolts with appropriate size punch or drift.
You are now my favorite dane. (sorry Chili Klaus). Informative and very fun to watch you videos. I am impressed with your patience. If you ever sail to Malmö and Dockan Marina I will treat you with food and bevarage´s
Really enjoyed this video and your sense of humor. I really enjoy your positive optimism.
If I recall correctly, the two most common failures on sailboats doing long-distance passages are rudder failure and standing rigging failure. Stainless steel version of that rudder shaft bracket gets my thumbs up.
If it were me I would get the rusty arm sand blasted and epoxy painted. As for the bolt thread engagement, I would take the clamp piece to a machine shop and have them mill a little off the end so the nuts go deeper onto the bolts. I would however get that vertical support bar copied in stainless, looks like a simple enough part. Please paint the engine compartment, lol, you'll be glad you did. Great work so far, keep it up!
A rudder that heavy would seem to indicate that the interior foam is full of water and frozen. Can't wait to for you to cut it open so we can see the condition and make sure it is safe. A few years ago I was on a boat in heavy weather and the rudder post separated from the fins so we could only turn right. We ended up getting a tow from US Coast Guard, but it killed the rest of the sailing season.
You might want to learn the "two foot shovel jump stomp" where one holds the shovel out in front with both hands, then jump two-footed onto the foot flanges of the shovel. Think mounting a pogo stick I suppose. The angle you hold the shovel handle is critical as is making sure your full weight body vector comes down in line with the shovel blade vertical axis; this typically involves pushing the handle away from you as you come down on the shovel blade :) But the heating pad worked very well
I just caught the orienteering compass hanging from the hatch.. well done mr mads
Soak the rudder "rod" to derust, clean and then mill an 1/8 inch or so off the top of the smaller piece so you can get more threads to go on. that part has held up for a lot of years. A good cleaning and primer and paint and it will serve for a long time. great question is the bolt condition. At worst have them drilled out and put in new longer bolts. Great Work Mads!
I'd think the weather might be more of a deciding factor on which task you take on next weekend than whatever we viewers may vote. Freezing rain and/or snow, engine compartment. 15C and sunny, tear into rudder.
I vote for dealing with the rudder!!
If finances are a concern I'd just clean everything up and move on. I'd say it has held up pretty well considering. Part of your routine maintenance should be to keep those parts slathered in grease in the future to prevent them from rusting up. You should probably replace the key for sure.
Good video. I vote for finishing out the engine compartment. I also agree with others that you should cut a window into the rudder before making any major cuts. This seems like a more reasonable step to take. Keep posting!
The iron parts will clean up nicely. Longer bolts will be easy to install after a little grinding. Then a little paint and it will look better than new.
Mads, that rudder is full of frozen water!! Stand it up, drill a couple of big holes down the bottom and apply heat. It will be much lighter in a day or so. You know Andy has a great set of videos on rebuilding these beasts. New bolts for the skeg attachment are necessary.
Thanks for another great video!
John H.
B.C. Canada
If you can't find someone to fabricate the parts in stainless you could sandblast steering bracket and replace the preventer with flat bar.
I have to add that the only thing better than sanding is working for hours at arms length while lying on your back...hopefully you can take a bit of a break this week :)
Thanks for another great video.
You can’t beat oxyacetylene torch’s for breaking loose rusty and corroded fittings!
PB Blaster is fantastic stuff!
Hi Mads. Just few thoughts. PB blaster is wonderful, perhaps have Eva ship u couple cans or you could pick some up next time u are in the states at any auto or hardware supply store. Like u, i started building and repairing boats as hobby years ago and find it very rewarding and relaxing ... on most days, ha! In order to add to my quiver, i started learning to work with metal as well. Ive found welding and machining my own parts very satisfying and u would be surprised how inexpensive and easy the process can be. I mention this because of ur rudder parts and other potential items along the way. Its possible to find all things needed for around $1000. Torch, welder, mini lathe, mini mill, sandblaster and even things to powder coat. I spent some time learning about these applications making the coin operated view finders seen all over the world here in Fairhope AL. The learning curve is small and the knowledge vast. For example on ur rudder parts ... u could sand blast, tap the screws and replace with longer stainless, then powdercoat with marine coatings. Most people dont realize how inexpensive and durable this can be. So is something to consider. Also a suggestion if just not ur thing, most machine shops, regardless of there particular specialty, will be glad to make those parts for u on the side. Id be more than happy to share more on where to buy and certain products if u r interested in looking into fabricating ur own parts. Either way, great job and press on mate ! Cheers
Jeez I'm just amazed at the kind of cash you seem to have to replace just about everything you touch. Having said that I would definitely replace the doodacky with stainless steel. Its a job you don't want to leave for Ron! (lateRon!!!!)
Brilliant how you left the last 2*4 there to break and let the rudder down gently.
You need a small propane plumbing torch in your toolkit. Plumbers use them in extremely tight spaces (here in North America, usually surrounded by exposed wood framing) all the time. I don’t mean a big Tiger Torch, I mean one of those small, focused, “blue flame” torches used for soldering copper pipes.
You can use the angle grinder to cut that small weld off, then get longer bolts.
Cut the bolts cut off, get new SS longer ones and nuts/washers - then take all the rusty bits get them shot blasted - arc weld the new nuts in place, then apply two coats of Hammerite paint.
or paint with same epoxy paint than the engine compartment
I love how you describe your rudder as 'unnecessary clutter' :D
I would agree with the others in that I would get the rudder arm, blasted & powder coated or galvanised. The other brackets would be better in stainless though, I agree there
The important parts (mating faces) of the arm are all intact and it's really only surface rust. Cut the bolts off and replace. Stainless bolts have far less tensile strength so might not be suitable.
If you insist on replacing then I think I'd be looking for a bronze replacement as makes any future modifications/additions far easier.
I'd wire brush that arm that connects the rudder post to the autopilot. Then use Phosphoric acid (converts iron oxide to iron phosphate) which stops the rust. Cut the bolt heads off, add longer bolts. Paint her up then reassemble. Watch Boat Works on how he rebuilt a rudder.
as long as you're doing everything else perfect.... midas well kick in for the new part in stainless,... especially knowing it needs longer stainless bolts too! love the videos!! P.S. wish I was as calm and happy as you always seem to be!
For items like the auto pilot connecting arm. You could use, what I call a tuning fork. It is used by mechanics to remove ball joints and linkage like you did for your steering. They don't cost much and are very much worth every penny in frustration saved!
Hatches: big hatch tends to face forward for two reasons. First, if you want to shove a sail down below, hatch opening facing forward helps. Second, ninety percent of the time you are at anchor, your boat will face into the wind. Unless the tide is stronger, then your boat will face at an angle. Ignore this if your boat is tied up to the pier. Small hatches could open outwards toward port and starboard. Example if wind is blowing from port, you open both hatches, port hatch lets wind in and starboard hatch lets wind out.
Rudder: repair and replace everything while you have it out. Bearings and such. Replace that rusted crap with SS.
Mads I too am in favour of painting out your engine compartment. It’s always good to finish a project before starting on the next one. I must admit watching you try to dig the hole for the rudder to drop into had me smiling and thinking you bought the wrong tool. A mattock rather than a spade would have been a good idea. I also had wondered why you didn’t try pouring boiling water onto the ground to help melt the ice. Anyway you got it done regardless. I too think that sure those rusty metal parts are pretty crusty but bead/sand blasted and re painted they probably will be fine. The only thing is somehow installing longer bolts in it will be important. I would think having it remade in stainless while nice would be expensive.
For the hole [in the future], in my winter digging experience if you can get an old ax of some kind it will really make getting through that first 10 to 30 cm of frozen ground go smoothly. From there, it should be easy to dig with a shovel (keep your fingers crossed though ;-).
It makes sense to tackle the rudder first in case you have an unforeseen problem and then you have a backup job to do, its what we call a " no brainer "
Its true what people are saying, steel is stronger than stainless steel. Stainless is harder not stronger. Just refurbish, it will last a life time and you avoid the fabrication cost. Great video as usual thanks.
You are going to have fun getting it back in your boat
Time to start thinking about how you will be getting the rudder back in again!
Mads,. I vote you clean and paint/powder coat the old arm and use it again.
I am curious about the space around the rudder post just after of the diesel tank. Where the green hoses criss cross. It seems that is under used space. A redesign to make that area accessable may be a good idea.
I believe it's time to put the silicone heating mat on the fiberglass over the sail drive hole. This will likely warm the engine room to allow the use of epoxy and slow down the steady stream of objects going through that hole.
Re: Rudder Arm
The old rudder arm looks perfectly robust and serviceable - if it were me, I would grind the heads off the bolts to remove them. New bolts, have it all blasted and powder coated or zinc plated. Spend the money on something you can see, like a shiny new tool or instrument!!
great episode Mads. Hope you have a great week. Cheers from PEI Canada, Bryan
Can't wait for the new video. Here's hoping I can buy my own boat within a year or two. :)
Have a new one built in 316 stainless. Use bolts that go all the way through without welding them on, use self locking nuts or cotter keys and drilled nuts.
I was getting so anxious waiting for each episode on Sunday that I stopped watching for a while so I could binge watch :) I watched this one and loved it as much as I did the first episode I ever saw. I really believe you'll be as important to boating as Lin & Larry Pardey. Before you scoff or deny, I'll bet the Pardey's didn't think they would be as important a fixture in boating as the are either. In 20 years people will still be coming to your channel to figure out how to solve a problem with boats. It's an incredible contribution you're making. Thank you! Now, popcorn and binge watching time.
Great video! I'm very interested to see the innards of your rudder. I may be faced with a similar task at some point, so I very much appreciate these videos. Thank you.
Another man versus machine story told very well. The key was the key. Excellent video, Mads!
A sledgehammer, about 2 kg, and a good skewer(?…spett/spyd) are not only good for rusty mechanics and ground work. They also come in very handy for sailors when mooring at islands with soft ground or cliffs/rocks where the skewer can be jammed etc. ☝🏽
Enjoying it all. Sorry it’s so cold for you
Re: the rudder arm. Its stainless so absolutely keep it. Bead blast it, it will clean up. Get the bolts machined off and new ones installed. You can get the arm powder coated to put a very long lasting protective coat on it. The other vertical brace will need replacing, but a local shop should be able to do all that easily. Cheers : )
I say rudder next but agree with the others that you should cut smaller holes in the skin first. When using penetrating oil like pb blaster, it can take multiple applications and time. A little heat too works wonders. For the rudder part, clean and rebuild with longer new bolts sounds like the best way. You could always get a new one fabricated if necessary, but don't see the need.
Did you consider having the arm for the rudder sandblasted and powder coated? It should be easy to replace the short bolts with longer ones. Steel is stronger than Stainless Steel and it will save you some money. Anyway..,nice progress.I always look out to your videos.
I had the same idea , except to get the parts hot dip galvanized , even powdercoat will separate eventually if scratched.
The rudder shaft is stainless
Steel expands 300 times when rusting, so 2 inch vent pipes rust solid shut becoming air tight. I have had Linex (tough pickup bed liner that is sprayed on) on all sorts of steel, water proof hard to scratch, but stainless will always be bettet. Also a good stainless would be far stronger then steel. One last idea if the new key is steel cover it with antisieze, inexpensive and may make your future self happy. Keep up your awesome work
Jim Jeffries. Stainless is never as strong as carbon steel. However, it can be made strong by making it beefier.
That is a damn nice socket and driver kit man. I am somewhat jealous.
I think to make that part in stainless could break the bank. It would last another 40 years in mild steel, just get a coat of paint on it and touch it up every 7 to 10 years.
No touch up required: look at the surface of that thing, freshly ripped out, completely uncoated for who-knows-how-long: That's one quality chunk of a lever!
Second that. Get it blasted, and paint it with some rustkiller & layers of good quality paint.
Will outlive us all, no worry.
I've got to agree. That's a nice chunk of steel. Clean it up and keep it. If you're concerned about the bolts not being quite long enough (a valid concern,) just mill out an eighth inch to counter sink the nuts. There's plenty of metal on that bracket and it won't affect the integrity. Alternately, grind down the bolt heads and drill them out. Whichever of those two routes you take, it will be leaps and bounds ahead of manufacturing a new unit.
Good luck with whatever you decide and all the best.
I wouln't spend the money on SS for that control arm. A good sand blasting and paint job with good quality rust resistant paint will last you the life of the boat. The fittings on it are SS anyway. I would grind the weld off of the rusted fasteners that are too short remove them, and replace with SS bolts and nuts that are long enough. You could have a welder tack them on if you want, but if you can get a wrench on them in situ - i wouldn't bother.
The bracket, on the other hand- should be remanufactured out of 316 SS.
Regards - Chris Clark
Agreed a good shot blast and recoat with decent paint is the way to go. If possible I would get it zinc flame sprayed after shot blasting and before painting. regards
In the U.S. we have a product like no other for separating "rusty bits".......it is called P.B.Blaster. It will change your life and remove a lot of stress. Anti-seize compounds will help will assembly and future disassembly. Lock nuts should have at the very least, one complete thread showing above it, but three is more correct.
PB Blaster is gold great for everything you can think of
Chances are the rudder arm is steel because of its strength.I wanted to make mine in stainless but my friend who is boat builder recommended keeping it in steel.There is tons of force on that arm in a sea and stainless can break.Either blast and epoxy prime/paint it or replace with steel but no point in going to stainless.
I'd review the stress relief in that welded one. The key is gentle arcs for change of profile.
You are the most dedicated, project oriented guy I have ever seen. Love the videos!
Mads you will obviously need a new key but whoever makes one for you will need both the rudder shaft and the quadrant piece to get a perfect tight fit. I would most strongly recommend that you open up the rudder to see what, if any issues it has to the metal inside and get it dealt with as necessary before taking these parts somewhere to get them dealt with. Doing so will also make it much lighter to handle as well!
Replacing the nuts and bolts for the quadrant attachment should be easy by cutting off the weld holding the heads and welding the new S Steel ones back in place. Regarding these quadrant pieces get them shotblasted and inspected. I think they will be fine and ideally have them powder coated for anti-corrosion purposes.
The long flat piece of steel with a foot would be cheap and easy to replace but I would also have this powder coated with new nuts and bolts all through.
Lastly seriously consider having the seal which the rudder shaft passes through in the hull of the boat at least inspected and, in my opinion, replaced while it is easy to do so - access will never be easier!!
Get a large drill bit and drill numerous holes in the target area. Does wonders in getting through frozen or compacted ground.
RexI would start on the rudder as it is the project on which you cannot control the timeline. You can almost always paint. We will enjoy the video no matter what you do, except Moby sleeping.
I think what I would do for the rudder arm is grind the heads off of the bolts so I could use longer stainless bolts, then just take it in to be sandblasted and powder coated. Affordable, and it should last another 30 years.
Mill a couple of millimeters off the cap for more thread engagement, Sand blast and paint, powdercoat or nickel plate.
You could take mr angle grinder to the welds on the bolts on the steering arm to replace them them sandblast the arm and have it powdercoated to protect it , paint the engine compartment now that youve got it cleared out
HIGHLY suggest you refinish the steel steering arm and simply replace the welded-in studs with longer HIGH STRENGTH oned to get the full thread engagement in the nuts. With the high working load on that arm you're better of with the original proven steel than a stainless alloy + it will save you lots-o-cash for something more important down the road!
I can't believe you've never heard of PB Blaster!!!! It's like WD-40 x 10. It's a must have item on any boat, or any serious engine repair. You can use it on everything from the standing rigging to the motor mounts. Maybe your lady friend here in the states can send you a case? It will be one of the best investments you'll ever make during the re-fit.
Not a good job at sea .... Great that you are doing it now!!!!! hope it all goes OK !!!
Cut off the bolts with a cutting disc. Treat steering arm and clamp with rust converter. It will last your lifetime.
The rust converter I have used you can paint over it. That steel on the arm is much stronger than stainless steel.
Hey Mads,
PB Blaster is your friend. I use it on 70+ year old cars and tractors to loosen stubborn bolts. Hit it with a hammer a couple times, spray PB blaster generously and let it soak for a couple of minutes. You should be able to buy some off Amazon if nothing else. Or you might get an American friend to send you a few cans. You can also get them to send some carpenter's pencils. I think you'd love them.
On that arm you want to have rebuilt. I might suggest aluminium bronze or silicon bronze. Stainless steel is more rust resistant than normal steels but it still rusts. Bronze does not. Just something to look into.
Great that you got rudder down. Next time you fly to Ava or back, you have to make a little stop here in Iceland. goodbye from the snowstorm of Iceland
Wow, you're lucky you didn't lose a tooth when that arm cap fell on your face! Good job tackling these difficult jobs on your own! And thank you for taking the time to create edit and post your videos!
What a load of fun you're having. I've wanted to get a small sail boat for quite awhile now. Thank you for tackling such a project and inspiring me to start looking.
I would absolutely take the rudder to your Parent's heated workshop, no matter what it takes to get that heavy thing into your car (you may have to remove your passenger seats but it will be worth it). I'm a stainless steel welder and I'd really like to see what's inside and my bet is soaking wet core with rusty welds just you have said. The reason welds on stainless rust is way to complicated to type out here, but the solution is electro polish the welds after the new ones are completed. With a new foam core and glass/epoxy repair to reattach the skin you should never have rust problems again anyway if water never gets to the welds.
I love when you explain stuff. Thumbs up!
Hi
I like your videos enormously they are very informative and well done. Regarding the the rudder I think the arm is made from steel because it is much stronger than stainless steel. It is worth checking out. With a clean and paint it should last a while. Try using etching primer when painting to get good adhesion. Peter
Definitely go for the stainless steel piece. Also, your voice is perfect for radio or reading audio books.
Yes Madds replace the torque arm with stainless steel. I did on my refit and I am very happy with it.
Cut of the bolts, bead blast and powder coat- mask the shaft mounting areas. If it breaks, which is unlikely, you can have steel welded easier than stainless!
I loved your reaction when the cell phone fell through the only possible opening on the boat. Look on the bright side, you could've been up the mast. Btw, I'm no Metalist, but I don't think you need to replace the rudder bracket with stainless steel...save your money for flowers...lots of flowers for your girlfriend. :) Fair winds! Oh, I vote engine compartment.
Hi Mads - im a fussy aircraft engineer but i wouldnt consider replacing rudder arm with stainless - it would be a considerable sum, have it sand blasted and zinc or cadnium plated, then apply a waxy rust preventitive - it will outlast you! as for the bolts - do as someone suggested and maybe replace with stainless bolts with self locking nuts - good luck , Bert
You are doing an amazing job Mads...I never thought a rudder would be that heavy.
You are going to be SHOCKED at how much those parts will cost made out of stainless steel !
The 2 bolts that are not long enough, have a machine shop cut and drill them out and then replace them with longer stainless bolts. Clean out the pieces with a wire brush and sand paper then apply a couple of coats of an ant-dust primer. Final coats can be your choice.
Next time you need to remove a keyway from a shaft and need some way to grab it try a pair of electrical side cutter pliers. The cutting edge from the pliers will allow you to grip the key then by pulling/pushing the pliers against the shaft the key will pull out. I have used this method for over 40 years with a lot of luck.
You can find these rudder arms in cast alumimium (or Aluminum). They are light and sturdy and would probably be a fraction of the price of a custom made ss part. Though I would keep the steel piece, replacing the studs and sand blasting it ( if you have an air compressor you can make one yourself) and have it epoxy coated.