Because of you every other boat building I watched, I think to myself "noooo don't short cut on your boat, you will regret it in the future". Every little project you do is overthinked and overkill. I LOVE IT.
subscriber for 3 years from Croatia. Missed this because of game. Very competitive world cup game. Denmark was good. I learnt lot of DIY techniques from you. Thanks
All the best on your Vacation, Mads. After binge-watching all your Athena vids over the last three days, I'm Fully Ready to build a three-masted Square-Rigger, I feel! I have sure learned a LOT, and I LOVE your Work. Overbuild it Once and Forget It. Hell Yeah! And they way you untangled that spaghetti-bowl of Wiring! If I win the Lottery, I'm Hiring YOU to overhaul a Big Hull for me.
Hey Mads - the reason the engine control panel is screwed in is similar to why electrical panels are screwed in. If there's an issue with a switch or button or something that is on that panel, the screws allow for easy access to the back of the panel for troubleshooting and replacement. If you glass that in, you should try to find a way to give yourself easy access to that panel if something were to go awry. But as long as you're thinking of that in the new technical area, it should be ok!
Well, for various reasons I had not seen a Sail Life video since summer last year. I've just binge watched all the videos I missed. A week very well spent! If it's possible these videos just get better and better.
...and what about Jökull? You probably see this on your youtube report. At 2 hours after airing you have over 8000 views and over 1300 likes. We viewers love what you are doing. Keep up the great work. Hi Ava have a fun vacation.
Hi Mads I personally would go with the 4 bolt cleats. With family in the commercial fishing industry it is always strength and safety over appearance and ease of cleaning. Think of the extra cost as a 1 time insurance payment.
It looks like last week's video is missing from the Project Athena playlist. Summer temps here can be around 40+ degrees. A fan blowing into confined spaces makes all the difference. Excellent presentation as usual.
From an engineering standpoint the four bolt cleats should be appreciably stronger than the two bolt cleats both in lateral bending moment and shear, the two main forces you would need a cleat to withstand high loads.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly forgot the password. I love any help you can offer me!
@Kase Mekhi thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
One of my top bucket list items is to visit Denmark, my dad did back in the sixties and loved it. LOVE your channel, i look forward to seeing the next video.
Your timing is impeccable...I am about to start doing what you have been currently working on, in my own cockpit. I have to go along and agree with the seeming majority and say that I would go with the four bolt cleats even if they are not spiffy, the lateral forces are huge in a good blow, or a tow. On a side note, how does this video, or any of yours for that matter manage to get 13 dislikes...what's not to love?? All the best from Scott and Karen aboard SV Siren.
Mads I hope that it is cooler in Denmark than the UK this week - my thoughts are with you ! I have been following your project for over a year now and it is my Sunday night routine now - I love Athena and all I have learnt from you.
The "technical area" sounds interesting. Small parts storage, a workbench with a vice, built in monitor for reading schematics,.... boy would I have fun building that.
Hi Mads, I am late to the party so this might not get read but on your cleats, the new ones will rely on just bolts for support, there is nothing where they sit for support. The more expensive ones have a base to stop "rolling" of the cleat and that along with more mounting points will make them stronger. Sorry I know the cheaper ones saves sailing funds but a cleat pulling out will be more expensive than buying the more expensive ones. Even with a backing plate the cheaper ones rely on just the strength of the bolts, and they look to be about 10mm and a 10 mm bolt has at best 22kN of strength. I changed to pop up cleats on my boat and they used similar hardware and a backing plate and one did pull out, might have been my handy work might be small hardware but I no longer have them on my Beneteau and went back to beefier type with a good base to take most of the support.
Mads, I learn stuff with each of your videos and thank you for that. Please don't let the negative comments bring you down. Know that there are many more positive subscribers than negative ones. I believe if you want to maintain your sanity you must just pretend that the crazy people aren't there and carry on. ;D
Wow another solid video, where to begin.... those new cleats look better! Idk why it is so satisfying for me to watch "complex" shapes get glasses in, it sure is though so thanks for that. It is crazy to me that there is so much moisture still when it is so hot in the shed there i guess once it gets into the core it has nowhere to go maybe you could explain that better. Also congrats on the upcoming vacation you must be over the moon about seeing your significant other have lots of fun and as always I look forward to more videos in the future! Especially the laying up if the non skid I have seen Andy from Boatworks Today do that and it looks exciting witg a great finished product.
Regarding the cleats - I am not a boat expert but simply on engineering grounds the four hole version with the wider base spreads the load onto the deck much better reducing the strain on the decktop. Less chance of any cracking developing.
Have you thought about some sort of hinged rain and protective sun cover over the engine panel? I've seen some pretty nice ones that were only on the top half of the opening which allowed most things to be done without even flipping it up, but worked fairly well to keep the rain and more importantly the UV off of the gauges, switches and such. Also, in the heat of battle and extreme angles of heel and rocking in heavy seas hands, feet, elbows, knees and even butts sometimes get stuffed into these gauges and can do a bit of damage to the innards when that happens. Something to protect and shield them the worst of this abuse would be nice.
I can't believe it was last summer where you treated Athenas hull with your heated orange blanket thing. Time has been flying by, incredible progress so far! I can't wait for the cockpit to be painted! It'll really bring Athena together and look like a true vessel!! :)
Thanks to your meticulous attention to detail, Athena is already a far superior boat than her original new condition. If you ever want to do a video of something different and if you have the stomach for it, might I suggest an interview with Chili Klaus. Of course you will HAVE to eat a pepper :)
I would definitely stay with the four bolt cleats Mads. 90% of the time the two bolt cleats will be fine, but that one time, when you're on a messy mooring in high winds, or being towed off a lee-shore, you'll wish you wish you'd gone with the four bolt arrangement.
Great video again! All said about the toerails: I would still glass them over and would put an 10 cm aluminium "tape" attached to the lifeline posts instead. It would serve all the purpose a towrail have but without the thousand leaking possibility at lower cost. THe deck-hull connection would also be stronger. At least, this is my plan at our 38 feet sailboat. Best regards.
The area of the base of the cleats will determine the torque the cleats can resist. I personally don't think the new ones will hold up in bad conditions as you might imagine. Enjoy watching your journey.
Your cockpit instrument cluster is going to look awesome! Are you planning on putting a lexan/plexiglass cover on it? Flush mounted I assume... because that would look pretty dang spiffy!
The heat has been high on the east coast UK too. Was going to align my reinstalled engine this weekend but held it off as spending time in an overheated engine compartment wasn't very appealing lol. It's supposed to get a little cooler this weekend plus I have 3 days off to get it done.
Thanks for the videos.. and the heads up for the tiny gap in upcoming videos. I look forward to each Sunday session of coffee and sail life! (happy Canada day!)
I want back to watch some videos that you made four years ago and find out 1: your camera (shooting) skill improve a lot! 2: you lose a lot of weight 3: you lose a lot of hair 4: your craftsmanship is miles ahead. Good on you!👍
Mads, 4 bolts are way stronger than just the 2 inbolts, there are often times even a the marina where there is alot of stress on cleats so would go with 4 bolts if the choice is there.
Instrument panel: I think there was a reason why the yard screwed this in. Just for easy access when you have a problem there. I agree that it will look much nicer when it is glassed in but you will have problems to get access to the instruments. But certainly you have thought about that.
The only thing I would do different is to glass over the hull / deck joint. I'd even glass in little stands to screw in the toe rail / stanchion bases as to not risk water ingress ever! Brilliant and very enjoyable project Mads!
I've spent about the last two weeks watching the whole Athena series. Fascinating stuff to watch, now that I'm caught up I cant wait for the next episode.. BTW I think my wife thinks I'm going to run out and buy and old sailboat now....
Another great video Mads, thank you! You may want to reconsider the two bolt cleats and go with the four bolt pattern with a backing plate, just my opinion. Have a great vacation.
I totally understand the preference for those new cleat designs. However, even though I like the spacing between the legs of the newer ones myself (personal preference)... I think the old cleats, with their 4 bolts and side-tabs would be much stronger in side-load situations, even with a generous backing plate. You're probably right in that your new ones would be fine in most cases, but with those beefier earlier ones you would never have to worry if you were using, say, a water-friction device, such as a drogue or a sea anchor, of the side-load forces bending the bolts you are using to keep the cleat and backing-plate together. It's just something to consider, I'm not making criticism. We can't plan for everything, but you can always just be more careful in your weather routing so that those situations are far less likely.
Just curious how many times you've used a drogue? I've been boating nearly 50 years, both for pleasure and commercially, and have never seen the need to use one, nor ever known anyone that did. Just curious....
Hello Mads, I really enjoy your channel; the quality of your work and the thought you put into it are a real joy to behold. Regarding the two-bolt cleats, I could well be overthinking it, but I worry about the potential for those to crush into the topside of the deck over time. What I'll call "lateral loading" of those cleats (defined for purpose of this post as a force applied perpendicular to both the long axis of the cleat and the longitudinal axis of the bolts securing it through the deck) looks in passing as though it would place a tension load on the bolts which can be well distributed into the boat with a backing plate below the deck. Tension is not, however, the only load path that needs to be addressed here. Locally, at the cleat / deck interface, you will see this load taken in torsion, with the force trying to rotate the cleat around an imaginary axis that, by eye, will fall at or just below the surface of the deck. This force will be transmitted to the deck by whatever the area of ½ of each of those mounting pads on the cleat is (i.e. the area extending beyond the centerline of the bolt on the side opposite the vector of force) which is not a lot of area. On top of that, the distance from the centerline of the cleat to the outside edge of the mounting pad is shorter than the height of the cleat, thus creating a leverage ratio that serves to further increase the force seen by the deck. What all of this amounts to is that you will see VERY high compression loading of the deck immediately under the mounting pads of those cleats when lateral loads are applied to them. My concern would be that over time this will fatigue and compress the deck material, which, as it progresses, will actually allow for even higher peak loads to be generated, accelerating the process, and would also allow for movement of the cleat, setting up a scenario for fatigue failure of the mounting hardware as well. With all of that said, I think the problem is entirely solvable (assuming, of course, that there is a problem at all; as I said at the outset, this could well be a product of my imagination). My thought (which should be taken with a grain of salt considering you know a lot more about building boats that I do) would be two plates, one topside that the cleat sits directly on and one on the underside, sandwiching the deck. They could sit proud of the deck or you could route out a pocket for the topside plate to sit in, so it is flush to the surrounding deck. It'd be very strong in both lateral and axial pull, and I imagine it would look really nice too. Anyhow, hope this is of some help. If not, feel free to disregard it as you obviously know what you’re doing.
I was thinking along the same lines however most of the cleats you see sunken are from core rot. Mads in the past drill, fill, drills everything. pivoting cleat would put stresses on the cleat at the deck mating surface, but fiberglass doesnt work harden. So i think with the thinkness that boat has, a backing plate, and protecting the core it will be fine. My thought... The stainless shear rating of the bolts should be taken into account because stainless is not a strong shear material. Shear would be less of an issue with a larger footprint because the force would be more transitioned to lateral pull. But, I bet the bolts are more than strong enough. That being said... Not sure i would go with the 2 bolts on blue water unless i was installing chocks to direct the load. big beefy cleat feels like good insurance to me. lol
I keep waiting for you to show us how you cleaned up the bilge. Why did they fill it with foam? I can't wait to see the before and after. When all that oil and foam is gone, it's gonna look spiffy! You are going to have the best bilge and pump ever!
Regaring cleats: For normal (e.g. baltic sea weekend cruise) I would prefer the slim ones with 2 bolts. But when I plan a around-the-world I wouldn't make compromises: I would chose the 4 bolt version. You never know, what you have to fix on such a cleat.
Cleats are items that work pieces of equipment that work about 98 percent of a boat's life! They are also an item that is commonly installed improperly at the factory --and --an item that is whose size and configuration s are improperly chosen by the builder!!! With all that in thought---sizing is important as is the fastening of the cleats to the yacht. The larger cleat you show looks good but the 4-bolt units are more prefered --in the the larger size! Cleats are not only used at the dock but also underway. Remember ---your life and that of your sweety may depend on these cleats. Good deck, big backing plates, proper fasteners-----Mikey---was in Seattle, now in Sequim, washington, USA
Hi Mads, great to see the progress you are making. You mention a backing plate for the cleat. I'm wondering, did your existing cleats have backing plates?
Test would be cool but i think mads has plent to fill his time lol. A big backing plate will help, i wonder if there is enough material to allow him to drill out and tap a bigger size like go from M8 to M10 that would also help
You guys should come by and check out Blekinge archipelago! It's lovely here and it's easy to get around to the different islands with hop on-hop off boats and tours.
Because of you every other boat building I watched, I think to myself "noooo don't short cut on your boat, you will regret it in the future". Every little project you do is overthinked and overkill. I LOVE IT.
subscriber for 3 years from Croatia. Missed this because of game. Very competitive world cup game. Denmark was good. I learnt lot of DIY techniques from you. Thanks
All the best on your Vacation, Mads. After binge-watching all your Athena vids over the last three days, I'm Fully Ready to build a three-masted Square-Rigger, I feel! I have sure learned a LOT, and I LOVE your Work. Overbuild it Once and Forget It. Hell Yeah! And they way you untangled that spaghetti-bowl of Wiring! If I win the Lottery, I'm Hiring YOU to overhaul a Big Hull for me.
Hey Mads - the reason the engine control panel is screwed in is similar to why electrical panels are screwed in. If there's an issue with a switch or button or something that is on that panel, the screws allow for easy access to the back of the panel for troubleshooting and replacement. If you glass that in, you should try to find a way to give yourself easy access to that panel if something were to go awry. But as long as you're thinking of that in the new technical area, it should be ok!
Sail Life: "Sanding has never been more fun to watch" :D
Yammering you say? Goods Mads.....just imagine your Yanmar refusing to yammer when you need it most. Yammer all you want....we love it.
You videos give me the courage to just begin already! Everything can be repaired if I screw it up. Thanks for the tutelage.
Well, for various reasons I had not seen a Sail Life video since summer last year. I've just binge watched all the videos I missed. A week very well spent! If it's possible these videos just get better and better.
This will be the best built Warrior ever made
23 skidoo!!! OMG... my grandparents used to say that... I thought it was a Canadian thing. I'm going to have to start saying that in our videos ;)
The Danish Cursing from below the cockpit locker was epic... Its been awhile, I've been experiencing withdrawal symptoms. Thanks for the fix!
Aye - nothing perks me up like some true craftsman's terms like "amen för helvete och satan också" :D
...and what about Jökull? You probably see this on your youtube report. At 2 hours after airing you have over 8000 views and over 1300 likes. We viewers love what you are doing. Keep up the great work. Hi Ava have a fun vacation.
Caught up. A full day well spent ... not cleaning up my own messes. Cheerio and lookin' forward to future episodes!
Hi Mads I personally would go with the 4 bolt cleats. With family in the commercial fishing industry it is always strength and safety over appearance and ease of cleaning. Think of the extra cost as a 1 time insurance payment.
"you know ye old-timey saying, if you liked it you should have put a bevel on it..." holy sanding, that was funny XD XD
Yammer on Mads, the more yammering the better.
you and girlfriend have a good time and don't worry about gaps in the video I will still watch when you get the new one up
Physics says those 4 bolts cleats are stronger, law of the lever. Personally I prefer the look of them as well. Another great video, thanks Mads
It looks like last week's video is missing from the Project Athena playlist. Summer temps here can be around 40+ degrees. A fan blowing into confined spaces makes all the difference. Excellent presentation as usual.
thank goodness theres a sail life video instead of crap football! your skills and work always looks professional, things never work out smooth for me
From an engineering standpoint the four bolt cleats should be appreciably stronger than the two bolt cleats both in lateral bending moment and shear, the two main forces you would need a cleat to withstand high loads.
Yes exactly I was going to say that but you put it much better.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot the password. I love any help you can offer me!
@Sullivan Korbin instablaster ;)
@Kase Mekhi thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im in the hacking process atm.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Kase Mekhi it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my account !
You had me at dive compressor 😍
haha :D
Agreed 🤓
Just need a diving platform next 😂 then sail to Egypt
One of my top bucket list items is to visit Denmark, my dad did back in the sixties and loved it.
LOVE your channel, i look forward to seeing the next video.
Your timing is impeccable...I am about to start doing what you have been currently working on, in my own cockpit. I have to go along and agree with the seeming majority and say that I would go with the four bolt cleats even if they are not spiffy, the lateral forces are huge in a good blow, or a tow.
On a side note, how does this video, or any of yours for that matter manage to get 13 dislikes...what's not to love??
All the best from Scott and Karen aboard SV Siren.
Thank you Mads. Have a great time off with Ava!
Mads I hope that it is cooler in Denmark than the UK this week - my thoughts are with you ! I have been following your project for over a year now and it is my Sunday night routine now - I love Athena and all I have learnt from you.
Always fun to hear “good morning guys” ! Enjoy your time with your sweetie!
I love the newest cleat. The height/opening underneath is great for threading an end loop
I wish You and Eva the best trip ever! Have fun! See U!
great episode Mads. Athena is looking great. Have a great week and a wonderful visit with Ava. Cheers from PEI Canada, Bryan.
The "technical area" sounds interesting. Small parts storage, a workbench with a vice, built in monitor for reading schematics,.... boy would I have fun building that.
That cockpit when painted is going to look so clean!
That old stainless steel fuel tank could be cut to make great backing plates
Hi Mads, I am late to the party so this might not get read but on your cleats, the new ones will rely on just bolts for support, there is nothing where they sit for support. The more expensive ones have a base to stop "rolling" of the cleat and that along with more mounting points will make them stronger. Sorry I know the cheaper ones saves sailing funds but a cleat pulling out will be more expensive than buying the more expensive ones. Even with a backing plate the cheaper ones rely on just the strength of the bolts, and they look to be about 10mm and a 10 mm bolt has at best 22kN of strength. I changed to pop up cleats on my boat and they used similar hardware and a backing plate and one did pull out, might have been my handy work might be small hardware but I no longer have them on my Beneteau and went back to beefier type with a good base to take most of the support.
Mads, I learn stuff with each of your videos and thank you for that. Please don't let the negative comments bring you down. Know that there are many more positive subscribers than negative ones. I believe if you want to maintain your sanity you must just pretend that the crazy people aren't there and carry on. ;D
Remarkably satisfying viewing, as usual.
Well done as always Mads.! My condolences regarding Danmark going of the World Cup. Hope you have a nice time with Ava coming over..
Warren
s/y Legend
Ah, I see a glint in your eye! Enjoy her visit.
You need a fan! Say "hi" to Eva! Can't wait to see you guys sailing together.
OMG this is just the best channel on youtube. ever. I cant stop watching :)
stor lyckohälsning från Stockholm! /HR 42e
Another exciting episode of the OCD diaries😁
This boat is getting better by the week. Even better then when it left the yard
Wow another solid video, where to begin.... those new cleats look better! Idk why it is so satisfying for me to watch "complex" shapes get glasses in, it sure is though so thanks for that.
It is crazy to me that there is so much moisture still when it is so hot in the shed there i guess once it gets into the core it has nowhere to go maybe you could explain that better. Also congrats on the upcoming vacation you must be over the moon about seeing your significant other have lots of fun and as always I look forward to more videos in the future! Especially the laying up if the non skid I have seen Andy from Boatworks Today do that and it looks exciting witg a great finished product.
Look up perfection and there will a picture of mads!!
Regarding the cleats - I am not a boat expert but simply on engineering grounds the four hole version with the wider base spreads the load onto the deck much better reducing the strain on the decktop. Less chance of any cracking developing.
Have you thought about some sort of hinged rain and protective sun cover over the engine panel? I've seen some pretty nice ones that were only on the top half of the opening which allowed most things to be done without even flipping it up, but worked fairly well to keep the rain and more importantly the UV off of the gauges, switches and such. Also, in the heat of battle and extreme angles of heel and rocking in heavy seas hands, feet, elbows, knees and even butts sometimes get stuffed into these gauges and can do a bit of damage to the innards when that happens. Something to protect and shield them the worst of this abuse would be nice.
I like you choice on the new cleats. Always good to have a big enough cleat to pass a loop through.
I can't believe it was last summer where you treated Athenas hull with your heated orange blanket thing. Time has been flying by, incredible progress so far! I can't wait for the cockpit to be painted! It'll really bring Athena together and look like a true vessel!! :)
Thanks to your meticulous attention to detail, Athena is already a far superior boat than her original new condition. If you ever want to do a video of something different and if you have the stomach for it, might I suggest an interview with Chili Klaus. Of course you will HAVE to eat a pepper :)
Please upload some video of your trip with Ava around Scandinavia 😊
Cockpit is looking great! I'm looking forward to seeing the wet plywood structural member, and the rudder is going to be interesting too.
I love the razor blade box openings...so dramatic!!
I would definitely stay with the four bolt cleats Mads. 90% of the time the two bolt cleats will be fine, but that one time, when you're on a messy mooring in high winds, or being towed off a lee-shore, you'll wish you wish you'd gone with the four bolt arrangement.
Great video again! All said about the toerails: I would still glass them over and would put an 10 cm aluminium "tape" attached to the lifeline posts instead. It would serve all the purpose a towrail have but without the thousand leaking possibility at lower cost. THe deck-hull connection would also be stronger. At least, this is my plan at our 38 feet sailboat. Best regards.
I hope you do sailing videos when the refurbishment work is complete
Great Job!!! Looking good. You are a fiberglass expert now ....... Keep up the great work.
The area of the base of the cleats will determine the torque the cleats can resist. I personally don't think the new ones will hold up in bad conditions as you might imagine. Enjoy watching your journey.
Your cockpit instrument cluster is going to look awesome! Are you planning on putting a lexan/plexiglass cover on it? Flush mounted I assume... because that would look pretty dang spiffy!
The heat has been high on the east coast UK too. Was going to align my reinstalled engine this weekend but held it off as spending time in an overheated engine compartment wasn't very appealing lol. It's supposed to get a little cooler this weekend plus I have 3 days off to get it done.
Mads, I have that same aluminium profile on my 2002 Jeanneau and it works nicely. Good choice.
I remember talking to you a bit about diving. Can’t wait to see the compressor you go with.
Thanks for the videos.. and the heads up for the tiny gap in upcoming videos. I look forward to each Sunday session of coffee and sail life! (happy Canada day!)
I want back to watch some videos that you made four years ago and find out 1: your camera (shooting) skill improve a lot! 2: you lose a lot of weight 3: you lose a lot of hair 4: your craftsmanship is miles ahead. Good on you!👍
Mads, 4 bolts are way stronger than just the 2 inbolts, there are often times even a the marina where there is alot of stress on cleats so would go with 4 bolts if the choice is there.
the cleat envy is real!
Instrument panel: I think there was a reason why the yard screwed this in. Just for easy access when you have a problem there. I agree that it will look much nicer when it is glassed in but you will have problems to get access to the instruments. But certainly you have thought about that.
Good luck on the adventure its was nice meeting you two when you where in LA
We like the yammering :-)
Thanks :D
Yes we do!
The only thing I would do different is to glass over the hull / deck joint. I'd even glass in little stands to screw in the toe rail / stanchion bases as to not risk water ingress ever! Brilliant and very enjoyable project Mads!
glorious, glorious sanding....
Bless you Mads and your Danish swearing, that made me laugh!
Thank you Mads for keeping me entertained and inspired every Sunday
Another great one and thanks for taking the time to share it with all of us!
You should use a small fan for heat reduction in those small spaces.
I've spent about the last two weeks watching the whole Athena series. Fascinating stuff to watch, now that I'm caught up I cant wait for the next episode.. BTW I think my wife thinks I'm going to run out and buy and old sailboat now....
I hope she's right!
gman99 that's what we did.... (and I'm the wife!)
Get friends with boats... it's cheaper....
Have a great vacation.
Thank you kindly :)
Much deserved. Enjoy and don't worry about us. Go have fun. We will survive.....................I hope lmao
Use a lot of support backing plate on the bottom of the deck and those two bolt cleats will be awesome.
Great work Sir. Definitely take time with the Misses. I hope you guys have a blast adventuring around.
Thank you for putting so much effort into your videos! Enjoy your time off. :)
Another great video Mads, thank you! You may want to reconsider the two bolt cleats and go with the four bolt pattern with a backing plate, just my opinion. Have a great vacation.
I totally understand the preference for those new cleat designs. However, even though I like the spacing between the legs of the newer ones myself (personal preference)... I think the old cleats, with their 4 bolts and side-tabs would be much stronger in side-load situations, even with a generous backing plate. You're probably right in that your new ones would be fine in most cases, but with those beefier earlier ones you would never have to worry if you were using, say, a water-friction device, such as a drogue or a sea anchor, of the side-load forces bending the bolts you are using to keep the cleat and backing-plate together.
It's just something to consider, I'm not making criticism. We can't plan for everything, but you can always just be more careful in your weather routing so that those situations are far less likely.
totally agree, was going to say the same thing!
use beefier cleats
As long as he uses those rope slot doohickeys on the gunwale, he shouldn’t have much side load... if any.
I wouldn't trust that my lines were going to stay in their slots in heavy seas when I'm using a drogue.
Just curious how many times you've used a drogue? I've been boating nearly 50 years, both for pleasure and commercially, and have never seen the need to use one, nor ever known anyone that did. Just curious....
Hello Mads, I really enjoy your channel; the quality of your work and the thought you put into it are a real joy to behold.
Regarding the two-bolt cleats, I could well be overthinking it, but I worry about the potential for those to crush into the topside of the deck over time.
What I'll call "lateral loading" of those cleats (defined for purpose of this post as a force applied perpendicular to both the long axis of the cleat and the longitudinal axis of the bolts securing it through the deck) looks in passing as though it would place a tension load on the bolts which can be well distributed into the boat with a backing plate below the deck. Tension is not, however, the only load path that needs to be addressed here. Locally, at the cleat / deck interface, you will see this load taken in torsion, with the force trying to rotate the cleat around an imaginary axis that, by eye, will fall at or just below the surface of the deck. This force will be transmitted to the deck by whatever the area of ½ of each of those mounting pads on the cleat is (i.e. the area extending beyond the centerline of the bolt on the side opposite the vector of force) which is not a lot of area. On top of that, the distance from the centerline of the cleat to the outside edge of the mounting pad is shorter than the height of the cleat, thus creating a leverage ratio that serves to further increase the force seen by the deck.
What all of this amounts to is that you will see VERY high compression loading of the deck immediately under the mounting pads of those cleats when lateral loads are applied to them. My concern would be that over time this will fatigue and compress the deck material, which, as it progresses, will actually allow for even higher peak loads to be generated, accelerating the process, and would also allow for movement of the cleat, setting up a scenario for fatigue failure of the mounting hardware as well.
With all of that said, I think the problem is entirely solvable (assuming, of course, that there is a problem at all; as I said at the outset, this could well be a product of my imagination). My thought (which should be taken with a grain of salt considering you know a lot more about building boats that I do) would be two plates, one topside that the cleat sits directly on and one on the underside, sandwiching the deck. They could sit proud of the deck or you could route out a pocket for the topside plate to sit in, so it is flush to the surrounding deck. It'd be very strong in both lateral and axial pull, and I imagine it would look really nice too.
Anyhow, hope this is of some help. If not, feel free to disregard it as you obviously know what you’re doing.
I was thinking along the same lines however most of the cleats you see sunken are from core rot. Mads in the past drill, fill, drills everything.
pivoting cleat would put stresses on the cleat at the deck mating surface, but fiberglass doesnt work harden. So i think with the thinkness that boat has, a backing plate, and protecting the core it will be fine.
My thought... The stainless shear rating of the bolts should be taken into account because stainless is not a strong shear material. Shear would be less of an issue with a larger footprint because the force would be more transitioned to lateral pull. But, I bet the bolts are more than strong enough.
That being said... Not sure i would go with the 2 bolts on blue water unless i was installing chocks to direct the load. big beefy cleat feels like good insurance to me. lol
Have a good holiday mate. Well deserved
Great video as always! Enjoy your timme together!
I keep waiting for you to show us how you cleaned up the bilge. Why did they fill it with foam? I can't wait to see the before and after. When all that oil and foam is gone, it's gonna look spiffy! You are going to have the best bilge and pump ever!
You just need to wait one more week ;) That's the pre-recorded video :)
I like the larger bridge clearance center of the new model cleats. Easier to get a braided loop through.
Regaring cleats: For normal (e.g. baltic sea weekend cruise) I would prefer the slim ones with 2 bolts. But when I plan a around-the-world I wouldn't make compromises: I would chose the 4 bolt version. You never know, what you have to fix on such a cleat.
Cleats are items that work pieces of equipment that work about 98 percent of a boat's life! They are also an item that is commonly installed improperly at the factory --and --an item that is whose size and configuration s are improperly chosen by the builder!!! With all that in thought---sizing is important as is the fastening of the cleats to the yacht. The larger cleat you show looks good but the 4-bolt units are more prefered --in the the larger size! Cleats are not only used at the dock but also underway. Remember ---your life and that of your sweety may depend on these cleats. Good deck, big backing plates, proper fasteners-----Mikey---was in Seattle, now in Sequim, washington, USA
Looking pretty dang spiffy!
love your technical approach, I have learned a great deal!
"Yammering on"....yep....that pretty much sums it up.
Always a great video , thank you Mads . See you next week. Suisse are wathing !
Athena is looking fantastic. A lot of work. I wish i had that ability.
Frank Nicholson you
Hi Mads, great to see the progress you are making. You mention a backing plate for the cleat. I'm wondering, did your existing cleats have backing plates?
it would be interesting to see a test of how much more force the four bolt cleat can withstand than the two bolt cleat, before tearing out.
It's all about the back plate. The bigger the better.
Test would be cool but i think mads has plent to fill his time lol. A big backing plate will help, i wonder if there is enough material to allow him to drill out and tap a bigger size like go from M8 to M10 that would also help
You could do a little travelvlog of Ava discovering Lutfisk.
Helo mads a lot of work you make look fast and easy .
Hey! Thanks for your videos, I really love them, I learned a lot from you! (Especially patients) You doing a great job!
You guys should come by and check out Blekinge archipelago! It's lovely here and it's easy to get around to the different islands with hop on-hop off boats and tours.
Beautiful !