Thank you kindly; well done Kathy. Please tell me; it seems to me that guitar luthiers spend up to two months or even more at the polishing bench - not continously obviously, but esp if they wish to use longer drying times - and they work with comparatively dry rubbers, and plenty of layers, while craftsppl with violins and furniture in general work for much shorter times, and the latter category much wetter. Am I wrong; if not, why the difference? Why do "we" tend to go on forever?
I don't think there's any real hard-and-fast technique that guitar luthiers use....most acoustic steel string builders use lacquer of some sort, which is relatively quicker than French polishing shellac. Usually it's the classical guitar makers who do French polished shellac, which can take any length of time, some in a few weeks, some, as you say, two months or more. (I wouldn't have the patience.) With violins, they either will do oil varnish or spirit varnish (which is brushing a shellac varnish, but many, many thin coats); shellac dries quickly, though, so that's a difference. I'm not sure what you mean by "Why do 'we' tend to go on forever?", though --- what are you referring to?
@@kathmatsushita Thank you kindly Kathy for friendly reply. If I may interpret the general FP tecnique that I know of here where I live - generalising now, and NB ONLY for classical guitars - we do as you, a veeery tiny amount of shellack in the rubber, those who have the patience let the last layer dry/harden/evaporate for at least one day, often longer. That's what I self-critically, tongue-in-cheekly mean ' ...on forever'; it takes several months to do the thing😉. That's my approach right now with my guitar that I brush up, and the result is good - I didn't mean to sound disrespectful. And, to repeat myself, I've got the impression that FP of violins means brushing a few layers, perhaps up to ten if even that, which would take them, say, about one week. But admittedly this my observation only via YT.
@@hni4053 Yes, I use a very dry pad, as well. That's the method that Tom Bills teaches. And, yes, it DOES feel like "forever" whenever you have to wait for a coat or session (whether it be French polish or oil varnish for a violin) to cure. Lucas Fabro, whose violinmaking online course I consider my best resource as I build violins (and I've only done four so far) uses spirit varnish (brushing shellac) on all his violins/violas/cellos. I think he does even up to 25-30 coats!!! But it's a VERY VERY thin finish, and his instruments sound fantastic. One day I'll have to try spirit varnish instead of the oil varnish I've been doing so far.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J3FJPW2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This is what Tom Bills uses in his course --- I like using these instead of other methods people use, like pipettes, ketchup type plastic bottles with the spout, etc. The other methods seem a bit more trouble to me --- all I have to do is open the cap of the bottle and put a "glub" of shellac onto the pad. No measuring or trouble.
@@kathmatsushita Thank you very much. I don't have anything like that on hand and with my guitar being completely constructed, I'm trying to get finish on it asap and am going with a french polish due to the non-toxic, non-bomb, low tech aspects of the method.
Was this walnut idea originally introduced by Eugene Clark? Is your Everclear watered down like ours is in Maryland now? Have you ever calculated the total time involved in the application process. O K, sorry, no more questions. Thank you for a very informative presentation.
Yes....I use Tom Bills's method (he has an online course on French Polishing that is the only one that has "clicked" with me and made sense and made it easy). Tom learned FP with Eugene. As for the Everclear, I live in California, where you can't get the 190-proof, just the 150, which is probably what you're talking about. Back when I first started French polishing, I was able to order the Everclear online from a place called Wine Chateau in New Jersey, I think. But they can't ship it online anymore to California. So, the last time (2017) I went to the GAL (Guild of American Luthiers) Convention up in Tacoma, Washington, I bought a few bottles up in Oregon, I think, on the way back home. Got it in a Safeway there! As for how long the process takes, on my last FP build (a tenor ukulele: theamateurluthier.com/retirement/htmlpages/mytenoruke7c.html --- it took about 3 weeks. Here's a schedule that I just put up on my website: theamateurluthier.com/amateurluthier/htmlpages/FPSchedule.html
@@kathmatsushita Thank you so much for your kind reply. Are you familiar with the "trick" of adding salt to isopropyl alcohol? The salt sinks to the bottom. The water becomes "salty" and separates into a layer below the now pure alcohol. I use that as it is cheaper and safer than denatured. I don't know if it would work with any other alcohol...Your guitar looks fabulous! I remember when you first started years ago in the GAL organization. Thanks again and have a lovely day.
I never stain the neck wood. This one is Honduran mahogany. When I was first building guitars, way back in 1995 or so, I thought you were supposed to stain the mahogany neck wood to match the rosewood sides and back. But I soon learned that you don't have to do that --- and quickly stopped doing that. It's sometimes difficult, as well, to get a nice, even staining color.
Don't know. The walnut oil is a drying oil, and Tom Bills says that it (walnut) will increase the flexibility durability of the finish. I think people use mineral oil in place of the olive oil, just as a lubricant (not mixed into the shellac). Read this article by Tom: theartoflutherie.com/french-polish-shellac/
I do maybe three sessions per day....maybe an hour or so between sessions. This is just a hobby for me. I was a high school English teacher, so only was able to do any building (since around 1995 or so) during the summers when I was off. I'd do one instrument per summer, usually. I have a website which I've kept up since I started, so you might want to look at that to see the progression of my building projects and experience: theamateurluthier.com
Thank you kindly; well done Kathy. Please tell me; it seems to me that guitar luthiers spend up to two months or even more at the polishing bench - not continously obviously, but esp if they wish to use longer drying times - and they work with comparatively dry rubbers, and plenty of layers, while craftsppl with violins and furniture in general work for much shorter times, and the latter category much wetter. Am I wrong; if not, why the difference? Why do "we" tend to go on forever?
I don't think there's any real hard-and-fast technique that guitar luthiers use....most acoustic steel string builders use lacquer of some sort, which is relatively quicker than French polishing shellac. Usually it's the classical guitar makers who do French polished shellac, which can take any length of time, some in a few weeks, some, as you say, two months or more. (I wouldn't have the patience.) With violins, they either will do oil varnish or spirit varnish (which is brushing a shellac varnish, but many, many thin coats); shellac dries quickly, though, so that's a difference. I'm not sure what you mean by "Why do 'we' tend to go on forever?", though --- what are you referring to?
@@kathmatsushita Thank you kindly Kathy for friendly reply. If I may interpret the general FP tecnique that I know of here where I live - generalising now, and NB ONLY for classical guitars - we do as you, a veeery tiny amount of shellack in the rubber, those who have the patience let the last layer dry/harden/evaporate for at least one day, often longer. That's what I self-critically, tongue-in-cheekly mean ' ...on forever'; it takes several months to do the thing😉. That's my approach right now with my guitar that I brush up, and the result is good - I didn't mean to sound disrespectful. And, to repeat myself, I've got the impression that FP of violins means brushing a few layers, perhaps up to ten if even that, which would take them, say, about one week. But admittedly this my observation only via YT.
@@hni4053 Yes, I use a very dry pad, as well. That's the method that Tom Bills teaches. And, yes, it DOES feel like "forever" whenever you have to wait for a coat or session (whether it be French polish or oil varnish for a violin) to cure. Lucas Fabro, whose violinmaking online course I consider my best resource as I build violins (and I've only done four so far) uses spirit varnish (brushing shellac) on all his violins/violas/cellos. I think he does even up to 25-30 coats!!! But it's a VERY VERY thin finish, and his instruments sound fantastic. One day I'll have to try spirit varnish instead of the oil varnish I've been doing so far.
@@kathmatsushita Thanks for info Kathy, good luck with everything and all the best to you!
/Hakan
@@hni4053 I'd love to see photos of some of your work!
Could you give us recipe a little more precise than a "few drops? Is that a 4oz bottle?
Yes, it's a 4 ounce bottle. It's not really a precise measurement, as far as the walnut oil goes. I probably put 2 or 3 drops in.
what was the source of those beautiful little glass bottles?
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J3FJPW2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This is what Tom Bills uses in his course --- I like using these instead of other methods people use, like pipettes, ketchup type plastic bottles with the spout, etc. The other methods seem a bit more trouble to me --- all I have to do is open the cap of the bottle and put a "glub" of shellac onto the pad. No measuring or trouble.
@@kathmatsushita Thank you very much. I don't have anything like that on hand and with my guitar being completely constructed, I'm trying to get finish on it asap and am going with a french polish due to the non-toxic, non-bomb, low tech aspects of the method.
Was this walnut idea originally introduced by Eugene Clark? Is your Everclear watered down like ours is in Maryland now? Have you ever calculated the total time involved in the application process. O K, sorry, no more questions. Thank you for a very informative presentation.
Yes....I use Tom Bills's method (he has an online course on French Polishing that is the only one that has "clicked" with me and made sense and made it easy). Tom learned FP with Eugene. As for the Everclear, I live in California, where you can't get the 190-proof, just the 150, which is probably what you're talking about. Back when I first started French polishing, I was able to order the Everclear online from a place called Wine Chateau in New Jersey, I think. But they can't ship it online anymore to California. So, the last time (2017) I went to the GAL (Guild of American Luthiers) Convention up in Tacoma, Washington, I bought a few bottles up in Oregon, I think, on the way back home. Got it in a Safeway there! As for how long the process takes, on my last FP build (a tenor ukulele: theamateurluthier.com/retirement/htmlpages/mytenoruke7c.html --- it took about 3 weeks. Here's a schedule that I just put up on my website: theamateurluthier.com/amateurluthier/htmlpages/FPSchedule.html
@@kathmatsushita Thank you so much for your kind reply. Are you familiar with the "trick" of adding salt to isopropyl alcohol? The salt sinks to the bottom. The water becomes "salty" and separates into a layer below the now pure alcohol. I use that as it is cheaper and safer than denatured. I don't know if it would work with any other alcohol...Your guitar looks fabulous! I remember when you first started years ago in the GAL organization. Thanks again and have a lovely day.
did you stain the neck wood? and it is mahogany?
I never stain the neck wood. This one is Honduran mahogany. When I was first building guitars, way back in 1995 or so, I thought you were supposed to stain the mahogany neck wood to match the rosewood sides and back. But I soon learned that you don't have to do that --- and quickly stopped doing that. It's sometimes difficult, as well, to get a nice, even staining color.
Would mineral oil work instead of walnut?
Don't know. The walnut oil is a drying oil, and Tom Bills says that it (walnut) will increase the flexibility durability of the finish. I think people use mineral oil in place of the olive oil, just as a lubricant (not mixed into the shellac). Read this article by Tom: theartoflutherie.com/french-polish-shellac/
@@kathmatsushita thank you!
How long does it take between sessions? High gloss! Oh, mercy, how beautiful! Do you do this full time?
I do maybe three sessions per day....maybe an hour or so between sessions. This is just a hobby for me. I was a high school English teacher, so only was able to do any building (since around 1995 or so) during the summers when I was off. I'd do one instrument per summer, usually. I have a website which I've kept up since I started, so you might want to look at that to see the progression of my building projects and experience: theamateurluthier.com
@@kathmatsushita This is wonderful, and you deserve praise! ❤️