love it. by going through the motions and practicing with whatever you have, you're progressing. doesn't really matter what gear is to learn. Gather data with what you can afford!
Keep at it and upgrade your equipment when you can afford to, I'm still using my cell camera at the moment as well but I'm making payments on a canon DSLR in hopes to get better shots
I live in the UK where astro gear is a bit more expensive than the US. Clear skies are also at a premium, where I live less than fifty nights a year . I have probably wasted a lot of money over the last five years on gear I hardly ever use. My own recommendations to anyone considering photographing emission nebulae etc. is to go for a OSC cam set up similar to yours (to cut down the price I usually go for a Samyang f2 135 lens and a 533 sensor cooled camera) With this set you can be imaging within minutes which is very handy for those nights when you only have an hour or so to image.
I am only at 1:12 and already love it - because a few weeks ago I shot exactly this target for the first time! I did it with a non-astro-modified dslr, so my expectations were realistic, but was still very happy being able to make it visible quite nicely. And since for the time being I still skip the guiding and the computer-run-part I will stick to this. Edit: Beautiful pictures, both of them, it's just such a wonderful region of the sky, one of the best! But wait ... I hear Andromeda in the background calling me out "how about me?!" ... Milky-way-core same thing ... Orion isn't any more quiet ... oh no, M87, no, the whole bunch of galaxies are pointing at me, now ring nebula jumps into the ring too, M61 screams, heart and soul join the party, Leo triplet jumps over them, it's a big mess, HEEELLLLPPPP 🤣! Now back to all seriousness: Both pictures just show how damn good you are at this, congrats and thanks for the video.
I was literally talking about this exact subject with another Patreon member yesterday. Your findings align with my perceptions after just having made the jump to an imx571 camera. Awesome video.
The thing that made me go modified DSLR instead of dedicated astro cam was that with it properly Ha modded it's still a perfectly useful DSLR. You can either do a custom white balance or use a screw on filter to replace the bit that is removed to make it astro-modified and it's ready for normal photography. Put in an IR pass filter and you can do IR photography. My daughter got into macro photography with the same camera I use to shoot the night sky. I realize that I can buy an unmodded DSLR body without breaking the bank these days, but still.
You certainly make a compelling argument for a dedicated Astro camera… But the shocking revelation is the power of an excellent 40 mm objective lens. Aperture-fever firmly humiliated by an overachieving finder scope!
I started two or three years ago and if I could start again, I would not bother with DSLR again. This hobby is a rabbit whole and you end up picking up dedicated camera anyway because it simplify things. But it was nice to experience both.
I'm enjoying all the attention you gave to details like pixel size and weight, and the way you show them with this kind of montage. This is a neet video, I would watch HOURS of honest comparisons about anything, adapters, filters, mounts. You name it!
im a beginner when it comes to astrophotography, using my phone, and legit got amazing results from just the phone. andromeda galaxy, milky way etc. and thank you for inspiring me to even go all in! ill get my hands on a camera as soon as possible. little hard doing it through the phone camera but a great start for now 😅
Nice to see some brand alternatives to ZWO nice that they come with a filter kit. I’ll always lean towards a dedicated Astronomy camera but think if you’re new USE WHAT YOU HAVE! Great video and appreciate the start to finish approach!
Именно так! Надо использовать что есть. На фотоаппарат можно фотографировать просто так и его намного легче продать, если интерес вдруг пропадет или купите отдельную астрокамеру. Лучший телескоп, это тот в который смотрят!
You mention 10- or 20-hours of integration time for capturing some faint deep sky objects. I'm wondering if you might do a future video on exactly HOW to combine data from different nights. How do you shoot calibration frames? What if you need to set-up/tear-down each night?
Nice video Nico! I have a full spectrum Sony camera and seeing how small the difference was between the cameras I am now inspired to give it a go on one of my deep sky rigs.
I really love this video! While I still resist dedicated astro camara´s (I know, one day I will buy one anyway), this video made me decide to sing it out just a bit longer with my already 20 years old Canon 20Da. Apart from the economy reason, I really don´t like to idea to take a computer in the field. It seems to kill a big part of the "under the stars" exerience. Thanks for your always excellent video´s!
I have learned so much from you. I cannot wait to get going with stacking. Been practicing stacking, but haven't had the funds for a kit just yet. Love your channel!!!!!
Perfect timing! I finally got me camera out to try a Milky Way shot and it came out really good. I started saving up for the gti and actually decided on getting the fma 180 as my first scope
The guide quiz was really good. It definitely makes sense. Buying a modified dslr is simply more or less a waist of money because it will only prolong the pain and later on you will have a piece of equipment that is not a dslr anymore and it is not an astronomy camera . The noise ratio defeats the savings.
Nice review of a dedicated Astro camera vs a modded DSLR. I built incrementally and found that the jump to an ASI533MC PRO wasn’t that painful and is cheaper than a 2600 (like the Ogma). The big difference is when I am trying to capture galaxies or reflection nebulae. I can capture these from my Bortle 6 backyard with only a UV/IR cut filter. In this case, the images on the DSLR look much worse.
Ive been binging so many astrophotography videos for the last couple months, and it’s definitely way out of my price range even with the most beginner setups like this but i still think its absolutely amazing what you’re able to capture :). Ive never even owned a telescope tho so maybe i should just stick to visual astronomy.
Your way to explain things makes all simpler and easier to understand. I am not a beginner, but if I knew your channel at the time I was starting, it would be much easier road to success! Regards from Brasi!
I think for the Ogma being similarly priced to a Zwo ASI 2600, I would opt for the ZWO. US based support is cool but the ZWO has a 5 year track record with minimal issues. Awesome video regardless!
OGMA and ZWO cameras aren't similarly priced; you're missing a huge difference. The OGMA camera shown here is currently $200 cheaper than similar ZWO ASI2600MC. In addition, the OGMA comes with a bunch of accessories that aren't included with ZWO. These accessories themselves would cost you a lot more if you were to buy them for ZWO. I haven't looked at the price of all the accessories, but I'm guessing that if you were to compare apples to apples, OGMA is probably near half the price of ZWO.
Just like with my telescope reviews, it's no surprise that the more expensive is 'better', but it's a question of value. Is the $1600 camera 4x better than the $400 camera. Maybe? But I try to go into many of the factors that impact the choice. Cheers, Nico
@@AmatureAstronomer When you compare the processed results, I would say the $400 camera did very well. I wouldn't hesitate to spend more if I had it, but this shows you can start the LONG process of getting really good at astrophotography, before you have tons of cash. Shoot with what you can afford now, there will always be more expensive stuff later
@@joeshmoe7967 I was using my cell phone. I just bought a ZWO ASI183mc. I like it. It works well doing EAA with a short focal length refractor. Didn't get the cooled version. Too heavy for my mount and I don't take long exposures, anyway. Hope to start posting videos of my photographs soon. Takes a while to learn a new hobby.
It's actually clear tonight - So I'll make it short: I've always enjoyed your videos! And I really like this one! I love the equipment you chose for this comparison - Excellent and informative - I never heard of Ogma. Clear skies!
Man ... thank you so much for filming this. Ogmar definitely looks better at first but once you’ve processed them there’s little difference. There’s definitely still a difference but is it worth the extra 1k cost? Hmmmmmm ... I’m not sure it is. Having the direct comparison is so valuable. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Where was this video when I was growing up?! Good ol' Canon XSi (450D) for easy modification. Can grab one now for $100. Convenience of having all the captures on an SD card, less wires, and perfect for starters to appreciate the journey. Even some older Sony mirrorless cameras are great starter candidates.
Awesome comparison Nico, especially with the read-noise. Also thanks for showing colorizing and star blending in PS. I do it differently bouncing back and forth from PI to PS to PI to PS but I like your method better - it is much more streamlined. Cheers
I think it mainly comes down to price in the end, the lower the overall cost of your rig is the more sense it makes to get a DSLR instead of a dedicated astro camera. With proper calibration and simply by getting more exposure you can get over the limitations of an inferior camera, but you can't get rid of defects from bad tracking or bad optics. One can probably build a decent rig with 2000/3000$ spending 400$ for an used APS-C camera, while a dedicated astro drain most of it unless you get a way smaller sensor. Another thing is that you can tell when a photo was made with a good scope (or with a bad mount!), but you simply can't tell if the camera used was also top tier or not!
There is another point worth a mention, using a custom white balance on your canon, you can still use it as a daytime snapper and a nighttime astro camera. Also with some dedicated astro cameras like the 183 you get better data, but, have to contend with amp glow. Me, I mod cameras and cool some, I use cooled canon 1200d and mostly my zwo 183mc pro nowadays, controlled by an Asiair plus. Wider shots are better on the canon with a bigger sensor, but, yes, they need a little more exposure time.
Nice Overview nico. I dont have a DSLR or Cooled cam. But I use a Planetary Camera the ASI 224mc from ZWO. It has a very good Read Noise and Gives great Images of DSOs!
wow i love it when someone is on the right side of the fence. another words there is no right answer. as you said in start. its up to what u wanna do and or afford.. i use a self ir modded dslr. works fine for me. but i love gettin the data. i sort of suck at the procssing lol .. but good video for sure
I began to discover photography and I think what's important is finding something that will keep you passionate. My biggest gripe is that not all camera bodies are compatible with all lenses mounting types even with adapters, I understand why, but there are interesting cameras such as the Fujifilm X Pro3 and the Sigma FP-L, I also find non-digital cameras such as the Rolleiflex & Daguerreotype cameras to be fascinating as well. I would like to get into space photography so I would go with a camera like the FP-L due to it's form factor & aesthetic, modular-ness, and performance.
I own a Sigma fp and have borrowed the fp-L a few times. They can work well for astrophotography, and I might do some reviews some time. Very good sensors in those cameras, and I too like the unique form factor. Email me if you have any questions about Sigma cameras and Astrophotography: nicocarver at gmail dot com
This is a well timed video! I’m going through this decision. I’m leaning towards a new DSLR and astro-modifying my Canon 5d. This is for a couple reasons. I would like to astro-landscapes. And if I get the DSLR modified, I can do something I haven’t done since I had a film camera… Infrared photography. The other big question I’m going through… Would I benefit from EAA? Right now, I just have the StarAdventurer GTi, a DSLR, a couple camera lenses, and one telescope. Set up is pretty quick and easy. EAA sees like a lot of setup work, and I’m wondering what it would give me that would make it worth the setup time?
Seems like it makes sense for you to mod the 5D. To know if you'll like EAA, I'd visit some star parties or local astronomy clubs. Usually there are some people who are into it at any meeting of astronomy folks, and you could see if it looks like something you'd like. I think most everyone who does EAA uses astronomy cameras, but they can be uncooled ones that are cheaper.
I did the quiz, came out with a 16 - could go either way.... I think my biggest issue is cost. I am not hurting financially, but it is a matter of priorities, since my house got flooded, had mold, and my insurance company said, "nah, you are on your own." So much for being like a good neighbor, lol.
1 advantage of a modified dslr, is that if you go full spectrum, you can still use your camera for infra red photography with a clip in filter. also a dslr can be used with an asiair if you do not have a laptop to run the required programs for imaging and guiding
Agreed but I chose a zwo camera because cooling is a huge difference alongside its usability with the asiair and stock sensitivity. overall lower noise but pretty comparable
One of the good things about your video's Nico is that you use metric units like the rest of the world, grams as opposed to these ancient American units like the Cubit!
Definitely cool video. I’d be more interested in seeing the difference between a comparable COST astrocam and modified mirrorless. I don’t think many beginners would be comparing something with such a large price difference.
Really cool video, i personally got a mirrorless camera since i also want to be able to shoot diffrent things aside from night sky photography and my budget is too small for having multiple cameras.
Thank you! I neeed a red lamp for using a telescope without white lights but there are hundreds of types on the market (and descriptions are not so clear..). After that video I bought 5 of them. thank you!
Nice video as always! I know this video was about the camera but... I reeeeally want to know more about that telescope. The price is frankly amazing and I have been wanting a short focal length refractor. Unless I missed it I don't see a review of it on your channel. Do you think you could do one at some point?
I think it might have been better to compare cameras of similar price + maybe a cheaper cooled one. So maybe a modified SL2 + a 183 uncooled + 183 cooled camera. I think that represented me when I started out. I was constrained by price first and the smaller sensor actually helped me since I started with a wide angle refractor.
After doing my comparisons of all the DSLR mods a couple years ago, I realized pixel size is very important to my eye for seeing these kinds of comparisons. The 183 has significantly smaller pixels then the SL2 which I think can be a distracting factor because then people will have to sort out the effect of sampling vs. the effect of SNR. What seems to be endlessly debated is the SNR angle so that was my focus here and why I picked the cameras I did. But I agree that there is nothing wrong with a smaller sensor for astrophotography. My first astro camera was the ASI1600MM and I loved it despite the sensor being less 1/2 the total area of my current APS-C astro cams. Cheers, Nico
I enjoyed the video having made the choice already moving from a fully modded Canon T3i to a ZWO 294 MC Pro. Coincidently it was also the Crescent Neb that I chose as my first target with the new astro cam.
@@NebulaPhotos I totally understand. From a conceptual point of view, I totally agree. This video does a good job answering the question, how does an Astro Camera change the image vs a comparable DSLR. But if the question is more practical, "What should i get as my first camera", I feel like budget is going to kick in far too early to consider a 3X price increase. At least it did for me. So maybe the biggest critique is the premise, "video specifically for beginners facing this kind of decision", because I don't think that is the decision. To your point about SNR and pixel size, yes, totally. But again, from a practical stand point, that is something that we have take into consideration as a beginner. I think it would be more interesting, if your answering the beginner question, to address all of those, maybe in a short series of videos.
I assume you just did a default STF / histogram transform in PI to both the r/g files from each camera? If so, that would explain the similar noise profiles and why the dedicated astro camera is "brighter". It got stretched harder than the Canon did because it had a higher SNR. Ultimately, though, you can go a long way in this hobby using a DSLR... and it's considerably cheaper than comparable dedicated astro cams. I know I certainly didn't start this hobby with a dedicated, cooled camera.
For the comparison in PI, that was just default autostretch, and I agree the main reason for the difference is SNR. For the actual stretches I brought into PS, I used HistogramTransformation, but didn't apply the autostretch. I made samples of the background and tried to stretch the two to the same background level. But then that careful work wasn't really followed through because in PS, I didn't use the exact same curves. I thought it was more interesting to edit the astro camera data first and then try to match the DSLR data by eye, and was surprised many of those differences disappeared when I started editing by eye rather than numbers. Hope that makes sense.
I own a stock and a modified Dslr. I am looking forward to jumping over and up to a dedicated MONO astronomy camera with filter wheel and all necessary components. I actually was watching your comparison of different OTA glass triplet quadruple etc... looking at your subs of what I think was the jellyfish Nebula in H/A and in monochrome, you can see the hands down better quality of a monochrome sensor using filters for a false color image over a dslr. I bet a One shot Color astronomy camera doesn't differ much except for the ability to control thermal noise if going with the cooling fan version of a dedicated osc astronomy camera. Something like that. I still make great images with both my stock and modified Dslrs. Clear skies
From my point of view as a beginner, and from my own experience, giving -1000 points to the OGMA camera. How can a 1500$ camera not come with the (10$) spacer to make it work out of the box? Imagine buying it and when you connect it the image is "not there"....best 1500 spent ever!!
i think it would've been better to compare the DSLR with a more budget astro cam, like a 585MC or 533MC. closer price range and likely what you would be looking to compare. $500 DSLR vs $400 /$800 astro cam.
I recently got a ZWO ASI2600MC camera. I love it. I also have a Canon 90D DSLR that I had IR modded last year. I recently tried to sell the Canon at a good price, on AstroMart, and eBay. After 2 weeks no one had tried to buy it. Based on looking around I know if I tried to sell my Zwo at a good price it would sell in a day. That's my answer to this question. Also, an uncooled DLSR is crap in the summer. It's OK in the winter, but on a hot summer night it's all noise, no matter how long or short the subs.
Interesting video nico! When you say you used the exact same settings, do you mean exactly the same in terms of settings i.e identical curves adjustments and colour correction, or the exact same process?
Great question. You are right I should have said same process. The colorization steps used the exact same settings, but the Curves adjustment were 'by eye' and were slightly different between the two.
Question ... in many videos, you discuss the need for a dew heater to keep high humidity from accumulating on your lens, but wouldn't an ambient temperature less 40 degrees C cause condensation as well. Further, many times the ambient less 40 degrees C would be below freezing and could actually accumulate frost.
Not sure I understand. A dew heater band also prevents frost from forming on the lens. I know this from lots of practical experience. I never have issue when I use them and constantly run into issues if I don’t. But I live in a place where it’s fairly humid all year (NE USA). If you live in an arid place like Arizona or Nevada, you likely don’t need them.
@@NebulaPhotos (NE Ohio), and if I have an ice-cold glass of ice tea on the picnic table it will frost up, the condensation you are trying to stop with a dew heater, so I get that portion of the concept of why a dew heater is used. My question is aimed at astronomy cameras with multiple stages of TEC coolers so their sensors are much lower than ambient, and often much lower than freezing. If these sensors are exposed to the ambient air wouldn't the water vapor in the air condense on the sensor surfaces?
@@oscar33212 ah, yes. The newer models all have internal dew heaters on the front cover glass to prevent that. They are controllable in software (on/off) but I typically keep mine on all the time.
Ive a modded canon 100d and can concur that you can use a custom white balance and then use as a normal camera. Something to consider if your on a budget and want to do both astrophotography and normal photography.
not exactly. a modified camera is going to take in IR light so just doing a white balance won't often work. I know from exp. but you can buy a IR cut filter and just place it in front of the lens when you want to go back to normal mode
hello I have been working with a modified Canon DSLR 2000D since 2 years. Now I have a ZWO 533 camera since 2 months. Both cameras have flaws and quality. I really appreciate the ability to make a dark library with the Astro camera. It's also easier to make adjustments like focus or pole alignment with the astrocam and my Asiair. I like the quality of the image I can take with it. "Oh tonight it's good sky near my house!" Nice I can take pictures very quickly and the result appears faster so if the very ugly clouds appear, it's not a lost night.😂 Dithering is not necessarily like the Canon. If I don't do the dithering with the Canon I have a weft on my photo, especially if I guide. With the Canon, I like the side of its sensor and its autonomy, no Asiair, no computer necessary. So for an ultra light setting, Canon is still very good. With my Star Adventurer, Canon with 50, 100mm lens or Skywatcher 50ED and I can travel very light With my HEQ5, ZWO 533 with a Skywatcher 80ED and my Asiair and I can took pictures in my garden very quickly The best of both worlds for me. Your work helped me a lot since my beginning in astrophotography. Very cool video Greats from France
Thank you for this video. Ogma looks like a great and promising product. It would be nice if OGMA came out with a device similar to the ASIAIR Plus. I own 2 asiair's and would love to be able to connect different brand cameras to it like Ogma and QHY.
Hi Nico, thanks for the video! I really appreciate your experiments that reveal very fundamentals. I think your experiment would be more correct if you found exposure times for both cameras to achieve the same signal level. And then compare SNR. So two parameters to compare: exposure and SNR. Obviously new IMX571 chip of Ogma will achieve the same level in shorter time and result will be less noisier.
don't get me wrong, i love any kind of "stuff on a budget" video from a pro, but seeing you smile warmly mentioning the cheapest things you can compile together whilst uttering my entire monthly salary just for _some_ of those things...oof. hurts my wallet and my will to give this a try :)) still, cool video!
I don’t even like the idea of goto mounts. Love star hopping. Love my lightrack II. It’s the interactive experience of actually learning the sky that keeps me going. Also, with DSLR, if you’re like me and you don’t want to bring tons of electronics/cord spaghetti into the field. MGEN3 is a game changer for DSLR guiding.
If you plan to be in the hobby a long time and make future upgrades to telescope, etc. I would probably get the better mount first. But if you live in a high Bortle zone (city sky), then I’d go for the Astro cam first.
I don't know too many keyboard shortcuts in PI, but that one is very handy. It's CTRL + Pg Dn on Windows with full keyboard. On my Mac laptop, it's FN + CMD + down arrow
I bought a cheap chinese mirrorless camera. The Yi M1. it was 200$ BRAND NEW. It has a MFT mount. I took it apart easily and removed the IR filter. My lens adapter comes today. Hopefully i'll be able to use it for IR night photography. I'll let y'all know how it works out. it seems like it could be the best/cheapest option for a dedicated IR camera.
My budget says I use an unmodified DSLR and no specialized astronomy camera. I can't afford to spend a fortune on equipment. That's the real world for many people. That DSLR is used for many other purposes besides astronomy.
Great info! I actually have an SL2. I didn't know you take pictures like that with it (and all the extra accessories)!! Do you have a link to the two processed pictures? Thanks!
To put it this way....modded gives you more juice with less squeezing, but a regular camera will still give you a satisfactory drink. I am happy with the results I get with my unmodded Canon 7D Mkii. I will move to a dedicated astro cam when I need more
I just started with a cooled DAC after using a DSLR for the past two years. There is no comparison when it comes to noise. It's so much more manageable in the cooled DAC--so much so that I might not use a DSLR again.
Hi Nico I'm just thinking of getting Fujifilm X series for their XTrans sensor. I have read they are more sensitive to Ha wavelengths without modification. Can you do a Fujifilm capture and comparison? Thanks and more power.❤
Hi Nico, it would be super awesome if you are interested in uploading videos about budget processing the photos like using low cost software (Photoshop, StarNet++,…) but still somehow achieve the same result with PixInsight (Star+Noise+BlurXTerminator) 🎉 Star+Noise+BlurXTerminators are the game changer.
Thank you for another great video. I was wondering if you have compared your Canon Ra in crop mode (Apsc Mode) vs a cooled Apsc Astro camera? I use my modified Canon R in crop mode on my Celestron C6 due to the image circle. I would assume a Full Frame camera would have a better SNR than the Rebel camera even in crop mode and using only 12mb of the sensor.
I've never tried it - I'll add it to my list. In general, Full frame sensor don't necessarily have lower noise than smaller sensors. This is commonly repeated, but it's a generalization that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
For best performance, the sensor MTF should be matched to the imaging MTF. For many years now the typical sensor pixels have been much smaller than what the lens resolves, meaning poor performance. But "high resolution" is the false goal. In optics, the weakest link governs, always.
Obviously the dedicated Astro cam has less noise and better signal to noise ratio, because the sensor is newer and better than the one in the old canon. Otherwise there was no sense in buying those right? Anyway nice to see that for short exposures the difference is not that big as expected!
I live in a Bortle 9 area (dm'ed you saying it was 7, but is 9, with more than 2 million people in the city and 3 million people in the metropolitan área) and I'm current facing this exactly question:should I mod my old d7100 or buy a zwo (either the 183 pro or 533 pro). I was already inclined to buy a dedicated zwo and now I'm even more sure that it's the right move. And also those dual band filter. Thanks for sharing! Clear skies!
I think comparing cooled and uncooled camera ins't same league. You can take a planetary camera with a large sensor to do the comparison, and actually price can be way more attractive than DSLR. And camera is much lighter giving less strain on the focuser and the mount itself. Also talking about software control dedicated cameras are much easier (if you use software) - for example when using DSLR with capture software/processing in real time there is almost never frame-rate = 1/exposure time. When there is clear advantage for DSLR: 1. You already have it so single use camera becomes dual use 2. You already have good lenses that can be used for AP so you save on getting short focal length scopes 3. You want to do general photography and thus it is dual use from other direction. If you don't have DSLR I think getting a good planetary camera can be way cheaper and easier. BTW if you are doing EAA or at least non-guided photography you can try OpenLiveStacker on Android tablet/phone instead of using mini-PC...
yea and the $1000 price difference is the point of comparing. Planetary camera with 'large' sensor? The most popular planetary cameras are no where near APS-C. You can do deep sky with a planetary camera, but you end up with 1000s of frames to stack. I have seen some outstanding images and may try with my ZWO 224MC, just for fun. The video presents a comparison. The info is good. One can always do more research or spend more money.
Congratulations for your channel! My conundrum goes a bit deeper, i have a cooled and astromodified Central DS (with no temperature control) Canon 60D, currently my main rig is a canon EF 500mm f4 L IS USM mounted on a HEQ5, still wondering if a camera like the ASI 533MC-pro wouldn represent a big jump in sensitivity and overall image quality to justify the investment in all the added peripherals
I think it will be considerable, or at least noticeable when you look at the unprocessed stacks like in the video. The 60D is fairly old (although I still use mine too!). Keep in mind the 533 is a much smaller sensor, so look at some FOV visualization tools before buying. For example, only 1/2 of Andromeda galaxy would fit on the 533 sensor at 500mm f.l.
@@NebulaPhotos thank you for the reply, it is indeed a huge jump, something around 1300mm, if i estimate a average of my total RMS is around 1 arcsecond, that meight be a problem down the pipe
Thank for this review. I have a suggestion Nico, can you review the 599 dollar OGMA APO08CC HDR Camera because it looks like a good camera for beginners as a better option than a DSLR but I have not seen anyone review it.
Thanks for video, but the astronomy camera (Ogma AP26CC) is out of my budget, especially purchasing a Celestron 6SE. Is there a cheaper astronomy camera you can get for someone in the middle of the road (beginner and next step up)?
Are you going to do a review of that Askar FMA 180 Pro? Looks like a nice little scope, but curious about star size, shape and chromatic aberration issues - compared to perhaps a RedCat51.
Very good video comparing those two cameras. I am a dslr camera user and I am highly interested in an askar telescope, the fma 180 mm or the 230mm. Are they still having problems with the coma aberration?...I read somewhere that is a common problem on those scopes. Thanks for any help on this. I forgot to mention, my budget is under $1000. Thanks again and CS!
I suspect the OGMA APC26CC is a rebranded Toupcam/Risingcam (see Cuiv the Lazy Geek on yt: "My ASTROCAMERA got a design refresh!.") In the UK this is branded as Altair Astro 26C. Identical specs - different colour. The interesting thing about the latest ones is that they have bolt holes on the front plate that support a ZWO bolt on (eg 2") filter wheel. Not so important for the colour one but the mono version does the same.
Get one and wish for the other until you get it... Then flip flop back and forth until you retire and sell the one that suits on the shelf. Always remember that the more gear you have, the easier it is to smuggle in new gear without your significant other noticing and the more confused as to which to use on a particular night you can become! 😜
Just a newbie question here. I just got the same mount and i use a dslr on a skywatcher evostar 72ED (hope i remember the name correctly haha). I would expect with a goto mount to be able to at least capture couple of minutes without any visible trailing. However i can only go up to 50 secs. I'm sure my polar alignment technique can be improved (feel free to suggest any vids on this 😁), but is it possible to reach 5 minute exposures like you without a guiding scope? Thanks for the amazing vid, your channel is very useful for people like me. Keep it up!
I was using both a smaller imaging scope (Askar FMA180) and a guide scope (William Optics 32mm uniguide). With the 72ED on the GTi, 50 seconds without guiding seems reasonable to me. I'd just bump up the ISO to get a good exposure (1/3 histogram) and go with lots of 50 sec. subs. Cheers, Nico
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
You got me into Astrophotography, although I don't have a camera but I'm using my phone to shoot long exposures, star stacks. And It's awesome
love it. by going through the motions and practicing with whatever you have, you're progressing. doesn't really matter what gear is to learn. Gather data with what you can afford!
i tried using my iphone, and it sucked. barrows by sisters Canon EOS 2000D and its so much better and ive been having so much fun learning it.
Keep at it and upgrade your equipment when you can afford to, I'm still using my cell camera at the moment as well but I'm making payments on a canon DSLR in hopes to get better shots
I live in the UK where astro gear is a bit more expensive than the US. Clear skies are also at a premium, where I live less than fifty nights a year . I have probably wasted a lot of money over the last five years on gear I hardly ever use. My own recommendations to anyone considering photographing emission nebulae etc. is to go for a OSC cam set up similar to yours (to cut down the price I usually go for a Samyang f2 135 lens and a 533 sensor cooled camera) With this set you can be imaging within minutes which is very handy for those nights when you only have an hour or so to image.
Yes, I think limited sky time is a great reason to spend more on a dedicated cooled astro camera. Cheers, Nico
I am only at 1:12 and already love it - because a few weeks ago I shot exactly this target for the first time! I did it with a non-astro-modified dslr, so my expectations were realistic, but was still very happy being able to make it visible quite nicely. And since for the time being I still skip the guiding and the computer-run-part I will stick to this.
Edit: Beautiful pictures, both of them, it's just such a wonderful region of the sky, one of the best! But wait ... I hear Andromeda in the background calling me out "how about me?!" ... Milky-way-core same thing ... Orion isn't any more quiet ... oh no, M87, no, the whole bunch of galaxies are pointing at me, now ring nebula jumps into the ring too, M61 screams, heart and soul join the party, Leo triplet jumps over them, it's a big mess, HEEELLLLPPPP 🤣! Now back to all seriousness: Both pictures just show how damn good you are at this, congrats and thanks for the video.
I was literally talking about this exact subject with another Patreon member yesterday. Your findings align with my perceptions after just having made the jump to an imx571 camera.
Awesome video.
The thing that made me go modified DSLR instead of dedicated astro cam was that with it properly Ha modded it's still a perfectly useful DSLR. You can either do a custom white balance or use a screw on filter to replace the bit that is removed to make it astro-modified and it's ready for normal photography. Put in an IR pass filter and you can do IR photography. My daughter got into macro photography with the same camera I use to shoot the night sky. I realize that I can buy an unmodded DSLR body without breaking the bank these days, but still.
My score was very accurate :) "You can go both ways".. and I do.. GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome).
You certainly make a compelling argument for a dedicated Astro camera… But the shocking revelation is the power of an excellent 40 mm objective lens. Aperture-fever firmly humiliated by an overachieving finder scope!
That's just the video I need. I really thought about upgrading. But I think for now I'll stay with the dslr. Thank you for the informative video.
I started two or three years ago and if I could start again, I would not bother with DSLR again. This hobby is a rabbit whole and you end up picking up dedicated camera anyway because it simplify things. But it was nice to experience both.
I'm enjoying all the attention you gave to details like pixel size and weight, and the way you show them with this kind of montage. This is a neet video, I would watch HOURS of honest comparisons about anything, adapters, filters, mounts. You name it!
im a beginner when it comes to astrophotography, using my phone, and legit got amazing results from just the phone. andromeda galaxy, milky way etc. and thank you for inspiring me to even go all in! ill get my hands on a camera as soon as possible. little hard doing it through the phone camera but a great start for now 😅
Nice to see some brand alternatives to ZWO nice that they come with a filter kit. I’ll always lean towards a dedicated Astronomy camera but think if you’re new USE WHAT YOU HAVE! Great video and appreciate the start to finish approach!
Именно так! Надо использовать что есть. На фотоаппарат можно фотографировать просто так и его намного легче продать, если интерес вдруг пропадет или купите отдельную астрокамеру.
Лучший телескоп, это тот в который смотрят!
You mention 10- or 20-hours of integration time for capturing some faint deep sky objects. I'm wondering if you might do a future video on exactly HOW to combine data from different nights. How do you shoot calibration frames? What if you need to set-up/tear-down each night?
Nice video Nico! I have a full spectrum Sony camera and seeing how small the difference was between the cameras I am now inspired to give it a go on one of my deep sky rigs.
I really love this video! While I still resist dedicated astro camara´s (I know, one day I will buy one anyway), this video made me decide to sing it out just a bit longer with my already 20 years old Canon 20Da. Apart from the economy reason, I really don´t like to idea to take a computer in the field. It seems to kill a big part of the "under the stars" exerience.
Thanks for your always excellent video´s!
I have learned so much from you. I cannot wait to get going with stacking. Been practicing stacking, but haven't had the funds for a kit just yet. Love your channel!!!!!
A lot of great information! Any newb to astrophotography appreciates this!
Perfect timing! I finally got me camera out to try a Milky Way shot and it came out really good. I started saving up for the gti and actually decided on getting the fma 180 as my first scope
The guide quiz was really good. It definitely makes sense. Buying a modified dslr is simply more or less a waist of money because it will only prolong the pain and later on you will have a piece of equipment that is not a dslr anymore and it is not an astronomy camera . The noise ratio defeats the savings.
I got a 33 out of 35. I enjoyed the quiz and it very clearly supports what is the best choice for me today.
Bortle 3 sky really did help to distinguish between cooled and non-cooled cameras
Nice review of a dedicated Astro camera vs a modded DSLR. I built incrementally and found that the jump to an ASI533MC PRO wasn’t that painful and is cheaper than a 2600 (like the Ogma). The big difference is when I am trying to capture galaxies or reflection nebulae. I can capture these from my Bortle 6 backyard with only a UV/IR cut filter. In this case, the images on the DSLR look much worse.
Ive been binging so many astrophotography videos for the last couple months, and it’s definitely way out of my price range even with the most beginner setups like this but i still think its absolutely amazing what you’re able to capture :). Ive never even owned a telescope tho so maybe i should just stick to visual astronomy.
The Ogma looks great. Amazing what those Sony CMOS sensors can do!
I have an SL3 that I modified myself and I love it! It is noisy like you said though.
It was my first DSLR. I converted it after I upgraded.
Your way to explain things makes all simpler and easier to understand. I am not a beginner, but if I knew your channel at the time I was starting, it would be much easier road to success! Regards from Brasi!
I think for the Ogma being similarly priced to a Zwo ASI 2600, I would opt for the ZWO. US based support is cool but the ZWO has a 5 year track record with minimal issues. Awesome video regardless!
OGMA and ZWO cameras aren't similarly priced; you're missing a huge difference. The OGMA camera shown here is currently $200 cheaper than similar ZWO ASI2600MC. In addition, the OGMA comes with a bunch of accessories that aren't included with ZWO. These accessories themselves would cost you a lot more if you were to buy them for ZWO. I haven't looked at the price of all the accessories, but I'm guessing that if you were to compare apples to apples, OGMA is probably near half the price of ZWO.
Interesting. So, a $400 camera is weaker than a $1600 camera. Who would have thought?
Just like with my telescope reviews, it's no surprise that the more expensive is 'better', but it's a question of value. Is the $1600 camera 4x better than the $400 camera. Maybe? But I try to go into many of the factors that impact the choice. Cheers, Nico
@@NebulaPhotos Oh, that makes sense. Thanks a lot.
@@AmatureAstronomer When you compare the processed results, I would say the $400 camera did very well. I wouldn't hesitate to spend more if I had it, but this shows you can start the LONG process of getting really good at astrophotography, before you have tons of cash.
Shoot with what you can afford now, there will always be more expensive stuff later
@@joeshmoe7967 I was using my cell phone. I just bought a ZWO ASI183mc. I like it. It works well doing EAA with a short focal length refractor. Didn't get the cooled version. Too heavy for my mount and I don't take long exposures, anyway. Hope to start posting videos of my photographs soon. Takes a while to learn a new hobby.
Very nice, now I wanna capture the crescent nebula
It's actually clear tonight - So I'll make it short: I've always enjoyed your videos! And I really like this one! I love the equipment you chose for this comparison - Excellent and informative - I never heard of Ogma. Clear skies!
Just get both. Lol. I can’t wait to see your finished observatory. The Crescent Nebula is one of my favorites.❤
Man ... thank you so much for filming this. Ogmar definitely looks better at first but once you’ve processed them there’s little difference. There’s definitely still a difference but is it worth the extra 1k cost? Hmmmmmm ... I’m not sure it is. Having the direct comparison is so valuable. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Where was this video when I was growing up?!
Good ol' Canon XSi (450D) for easy modification. Can grab one now for $100. Convenience of having all the captures on an SD card, less wires, and perfect for starters to appreciate the journey. Even some older Sony mirrorless cameras are great starter candidates.
This video helped me decide to buy a Nikon D5300 and astromodify it. I got a low-mile body for less than $300. I already have a number of lenses.
Awesome comparison Nico, especially with the read-noise. Also thanks for showing colorizing and star blending in PS. I do it differently bouncing back and forth from PI to PS to PI to PS but I like your method better - it is much more streamlined. Cheers
Love your videos
Keep it up sir ❤❤
I think it mainly comes down to price in the end, the lower the overall cost of your rig is the more sense it makes to get a DSLR instead of a dedicated astro camera.
With proper calibration and simply by getting more exposure you can get over the limitations of an inferior camera, but you can't get rid of defects from bad tracking or bad optics.
One can probably build a decent rig with 2000/3000$ spending 400$ for an used APS-C camera, while a dedicated astro drain most of it unless you get a way smaller sensor.
Another thing is that you can tell when a photo was made with a good scope (or with a bad mount!), but you simply can't tell if the camera used was also top tier or not!
There is another point worth a mention, using a custom white balance on your canon, you can still use it as a daytime snapper and a nighttime astro camera. Also with some dedicated astro cameras like the 183 you get better data, but, have to contend with amp glow. Me, I mod cameras and cool some, I use cooled canon 1200d and mostly my zwo 183mc pro nowadays, controlled by an Asiair plus. Wider shots are better on the canon with a bigger sensor, but, yes, they need a little more exposure time.
Nice Overview nico. I dont have a DSLR or Cooled cam. But I use a Planetary Camera the ASI 224mc from ZWO. It has a very good Read Noise and Gives great Images of DSOs!
wow i love it when someone is on the right side of the fence. another words there is no right answer. as you said in start. its up to what u wanna do and or afford.. i use a self ir modded dslr. works fine for me. but i love gettin the data. i sort of suck at the procssing lol .. but good video for sure
I began to discover photography and I think what's important is finding something that will keep you passionate. My biggest gripe is that not all camera bodies are compatible with all lenses mounting types even with adapters, I understand why, but there are interesting cameras such as the Fujifilm X Pro3 and the Sigma FP-L, I also find non-digital cameras such as the Rolleiflex & Daguerreotype cameras to be fascinating as well.
I would like to get into space photography so I would go with a camera like the FP-L due to it's form factor & aesthetic, modular-ness, and performance.
I own a Sigma fp and have borrowed the fp-L a few times. They can work well for astrophotography, and I might do some reviews some time. Very good sensors in those cameras, and I too like the unique form factor. Email me if you have any questions about Sigma cameras and Astrophotography: nicocarver at gmail dot com
This is a well timed video! I’m going through this decision. I’m leaning towards a new DSLR and astro-modifying my Canon 5d.
This is for a couple reasons. I would like to astro-landscapes. And if I get the DSLR modified, I can do something I haven’t done since I had a film camera… Infrared photography.
The other big question I’m going through… Would I benefit from EAA? Right now, I just have the StarAdventurer GTi, a DSLR, a couple camera lenses, and one telescope. Set up is pretty quick and easy. EAA sees like a lot of setup work, and I’m wondering what it would give me that would make it worth the setup time?
Seems like it makes sense for you to mod the 5D. To know if you'll like EAA, I'd visit some star parties or local astronomy clubs. Usually there are some people who are into it at any meeting of astronomy folks, and you could see if it looks like something you'd like. I think most everyone who does EAA uses astronomy cameras, but they can be uncooled ones that are cheaper.
That quiz was so helpful, Thank You!!
I did the quiz, came out with a 16 - could go either way....
I think my biggest issue is cost. I am not hurting financially, but it is a matter of priorities, since my house got flooded, had mold, and my insurance company said, "nah, you are on your own." So much for being like a good neighbor, lol.
1 advantage of a modified dslr, is that if you go full spectrum, you can still use your camera for infra red photography with a clip in filter. also a dslr can be used with an asiair if you do not have a laptop to run the required programs for imaging and guiding
Agreed but I chose a zwo camera because cooling is a huge difference alongside its usability with the asiair and stock sensitivity. overall lower noise but pretty comparable
One of the good things about your video's Nico is that you use metric units like the rest of the world, grams as opposed to these ancient American units like the Cubit!
Definitely cool video. I’d be more interested in seeing the difference between a comparable COST astrocam and modified mirrorless. I don’t think many beginners would be comparing something with such a large price difference.
But I didn’t know you were (fairly) local here in New England!
Really cool video, i personally got a mirrorless camera since i also want to be able to shoot diffrent things aside from night sky photography and my budget is too small for having multiple cameras.
Thank you! I neeed a red lamp for using a telescope without white lights but there are hundreds of types on the market (and descriptions are not so clear..).
After that video I bought 5 of them. thank you!
Amazing Video! Thanks a lot! :D
I got the SV220 filter it's awesome for the price!
Огромное спасибо за Ваш труд!
You are a great teacher. I needed this!! Thanks
Nice video as always! I know this video was about the camera but... I reeeeally want to know more about that telescope. The price is frankly amazing and I have been wanting a short focal length refractor. Unless I missed it I don't see a review of it on your channel. Do you think you could do one at some point?
I think it might have been better to compare cameras of similar price + maybe a cheaper cooled one. So maybe a modified SL2 + a 183 uncooled + 183 cooled camera. I think that represented me when I started out. I was constrained by price first and the smaller sensor actually helped me since I started with a wide angle refractor.
After doing my comparisons of all the DSLR mods a couple years ago, I realized pixel size is very important to my eye for seeing these kinds of comparisons. The 183 has significantly smaller pixels then the SL2 which I think can be a distracting factor because then people will have to sort out the effect of sampling vs. the effect of SNR. What seems to be endlessly debated is the SNR angle so that was my focus here and why I picked the cameras I did. But I agree that there is nothing wrong with a smaller sensor for astrophotography. My first astro camera was the ASI1600MM and I loved it despite the sensor being less 1/2 the total area of my current APS-C astro cams. Cheers, Nico
I enjoyed the video having made the choice already moving from a fully modded Canon T3i to a ZWO 294 MC Pro. Coincidently it was also the Crescent Neb that I chose as my first target with the new astro cam.
@@NebulaPhotos I totally understand. From a conceptual point of view, I totally agree. This video does a good job answering the question, how does an Astro Camera change the image vs a comparable DSLR. But if the question is more practical, "What should i get as my first camera", I feel like budget is going to kick in far too early to consider a 3X price increase. At least it did for me. So maybe the biggest critique is the premise, "video specifically for beginners facing this kind of decision", because I don't think that is the decision.
To your point about SNR and pixel size, yes, totally. But again, from a practical stand point, that is something that we have take into consideration as a beginner. I think it would be more interesting, if your answering the beginner question, to address all of those, maybe in a short series of videos.
I assume you just did a default STF / histogram transform in PI to both the r/g files from each camera? If so, that would explain the similar noise profiles and why the dedicated astro camera is "brighter". It got stretched harder than the Canon did because it had a higher SNR. Ultimately, though, you can go a long way in this hobby using a DSLR... and it's considerably cheaper than comparable dedicated astro cams. I know I certainly didn't start this hobby with a dedicated, cooled camera.
For the comparison in PI, that was just default autostretch, and I agree the main reason for the difference is SNR. For the actual stretches I brought into PS, I used HistogramTransformation, but didn't apply the autostretch. I made samples of the background and tried to stretch the two to the same background level. But then that careful work wasn't really followed through because in PS, I didn't use the exact same curves. I thought it was more interesting to edit the astro camera data first and then try to match the DSLR data by eye, and was surprised many of those differences disappeared when I started editing by eye rather than numbers. Hope that makes sense.
I own a stock and a modified Dslr. I am looking forward to jumping over and up to a dedicated MONO astronomy camera with filter wheel and all necessary components. I actually was watching your comparison of different OTA glass triplet quadruple etc... looking at your subs of what I think was the jellyfish Nebula in H/A and in monochrome, you can see the hands down better quality of a monochrome sensor using filters for a false color image over a dslr. I bet a One shot Color astronomy camera doesn't differ much except for the ability to control thermal noise if going with the cooling fan version of a dedicated osc astronomy camera.
Something like that. I still make great images with both my stock and modified Dslrs.
Clear skies
From my point of view as a beginner, and from my own experience, giving -1000 points to the OGMA camera. How can a 1500$ camera not come with the (10$) spacer to make it work out of the box? Imagine buying it and when you connect it the image is "not there"....best 1500 spent ever!!
i think it would've been better to compare the DSLR with a more budget astro cam, like a 585MC or 533MC. closer price range and likely what you would be looking to compare. $500 DSLR vs $400 /$800 astro cam.
I recently got a ZWO ASI2600MC camera. I love it. I also have a Canon 90D DSLR that I had IR modded last year. I recently tried to sell the Canon at a good price, on AstroMart, and eBay. After 2 weeks no one had tried to buy it. Based on looking around I know if I tried to sell my Zwo at a good price it would sell in a day. That's my answer to this question. Also, an uncooled DLSR is crap in the summer. It's OK in the winter, but on a hot summer night it's all noise, no matter how long or short the subs.
Now we gotta see how good the astro cam can do portraits
Interesting video nico!
When you say you used the exact same settings, do you mean exactly the same in terms of settings i.e identical curves adjustments and colour correction, or the exact same process?
Great question. You are right I should have said same process. The colorization steps used the exact same settings, but the Curves adjustment were 'by eye' and were slightly different between the two.
@NebulaPhotos thanks for the reply nico!
Question ... in many videos, you discuss the need for a dew heater to keep high humidity from accumulating on your lens, but wouldn't an ambient temperature less 40 degrees C cause condensation as well. Further, many times the ambient less 40 degrees C would be below freezing and could actually accumulate frost.
Not sure I understand. A dew heater band also prevents frost from forming on the lens. I know this from lots of practical experience. I never have issue when I use them and constantly run into issues if I don’t. But I live in a place where it’s fairly humid all year (NE USA). If you live in an arid place like Arizona or Nevada, you likely don’t need them.
@@NebulaPhotos (NE Ohio), and if I have an ice-cold glass of ice tea on the picnic table it will frost up, the condensation you are trying to stop with a dew heater, so I get that portion of the concept of why a dew heater is used. My question is aimed at astronomy cameras with multiple stages of TEC coolers so their sensors are much lower than ambient, and often much lower than freezing. If these sensors are exposed to the ambient air wouldn't the water vapor in the air condense on the sensor surfaces?
@@oscar33212 ah, yes. The newer models all have internal dew heaters on the front cover glass to prevent that. They are controllable in software (on/off) but I typically keep mine on all the time.
Ive a modded canon 100d and can concur that you can use a custom white balance and then use as a normal camera. Something to consider if your on a budget and want to do both astrophotography and normal photography.
not exactly. a modified camera is going to take in IR light so just doing a white balance won't often work. I know from exp.
but you can buy a IR cut filter and just place it in front of the lens when you want to go back to normal mode
hello I have been working with a modified Canon DSLR 2000D since 2 years.
Now I have a ZWO 533 camera since 2 months.
Both cameras have flaws and quality. I really appreciate the ability to make a dark library with the Astro camera. It's also easier to make adjustments like focus or pole alignment with the astrocam and my Asiair. I like the quality of the image I can take with it.
"Oh tonight it's good sky near my house!" Nice I can take pictures very quickly and the result appears faster so if the very ugly clouds appear, it's not a lost night.😂
Dithering is not necessarily like the Canon. If I don't do the dithering with the Canon I have a weft on my photo, especially if I guide.
With the Canon, I like the side of its sensor and its autonomy, no Asiair, no computer necessary. So for an ultra light setting, Canon is still very good.
With my Star Adventurer, Canon with 50, 100mm lens or Skywatcher 50ED and I can travel very light
With my HEQ5, ZWO 533 with a Skywatcher 80ED and my Asiair and I can took pictures in my garden very quickly
The best of both worlds for me.
Your work helped me a lot since my beginning in astrophotography. Very cool video
Greats from France
Thank you for this video. Ogma looks like a great and promising product. It would be nice if OGMA came out with a device similar to the ASIAIR Plus. I own 2 asiair's and would love to be able to connect different brand cameras to it like Ogma and QHY.
Hi Nico, thanks for the video! I really appreciate your experiments that reveal very fundamentals. I think your experiment would be more correct if you found exposure times for both cameras to achieve the same signal level. And then compare SNR. So two parameters to compare: exposure and SNR. Obviously new IMX571 chip of Ogma will achieve the same level in shorter time and result will be less noisier.
don't get me wrong, i love any kind of "stuff on a budget" video from a pro, but seeing you smile warmly mentioning the cheapest things you can compile together whilst uttering my entire monthly salary just for _some_ of those things...oof. hurts my wallet and my will to give this a try :)) still, cool video!
I don’t even like the idea of goto mounts. Love star hopping. Love my lightrack II. It’s the interactive experience of actually learning the sky that keeps me going. Also, with DSLR, if you’re like me and you don’t want to bring tons of electronics/cord spaghetti into the field. MGEN3 is a game changer for DSLR guiding.
i vote no spaghetti in the field! I like using a mirrorless camera. My sony can do long exp timelapse for hours on a single battery charge.
@@baqcasanke I use the a73 exclusively. Definitely recommend the Ha mod. Totally worth it.
Nice video, as always!
For a price difference of USD1'000, would you change the astromod cam to a dedicated one or would you invest in a better mount?
If you plan to be in the hobby a long time and make future upgrades to telescope, etc. I would probably get the better mount first. But if you live in a high Bortle zone (city sky), then I’d go for the Astro cam first.
Good stuff Nico! How do you blink between two similar sized images in PI? Never knew that was a thing!
I don't know too many keyboard shortcuts in PI, but that one is very handy. It's CTRL + Pg Dn on Windows with full keyboard. On my Mac laptop, it's FN + CMD + down arrow
@Nebula Photos. I would like to point out the the Star Adventurer GTi has a SNAP port, so the GTi can be the intervalometer for the DSLR.
I bought a cheap chinese mirrorless camera. The Yi M1. it was 200$ BRAND NEW. It has a MFT mount. I took it apart easily and removed the IR filter. My lens adapter comes today. Hopefully i'll be able to use it for IR night photography.
I'll let y'all know how it works out. it seems like it could be the best/cheapest option for a dedicated IR camera.
My budget says I use an unmodified DSLR and no specialized astronomy camera. I can't afford to spend a fortune on equipment. That's the real world for many people. That DSLR is used for many other purposes besides astronomy.
Very detailed and accurate.
Great info! I actually have an SL2. I didn't know you take pictures like that with it (and all the extra accessories)!!
Do you have a link to the two processed pictures? Thanks!
Is there a video comparing modded vs unmodified dslr?
Yes: th-cam.com/video/KL45mPSU9dU/w-d-xo.html
Yep, I got you covered: th-cam.com/video/KL45mPSU9dU/w-d-xo.html
yes this one even compares all different mods including one that was not modded th-cam.com/video/KL45mPSU9dU/w-d-xo.html
To put it this way....modded gives you more juice with less squeezing, but a regular camera will still give you a satisfactory drink. I am happy with the results I get with my unmodded Canon 7D Mkii. I will move to a dedicated astro cam when I need more
I just started with a cooled DAC after using a DSLR for the past two years. There is no comparison when it comes to noise. It's so much more manageable in the cooled DAC--so much so that I might not use a DSLR again.
Hi Nico I'm just thinking of getting Fujifilm X series for their XTrans sensor. I have read they are more sensitive to Ha wavelengths without modification. Can you do a Fujifilm capture and comparison? Thanks and more power.❤
I wanted to buy the Askar 180 pro to go with my Canon T5+Stellarmate OS/PI4 + AZGTI but instead bought the DwarfII
Hi Nico, it would be super awesome if you are interested in uploading videos about budget processing the photos like using low cost software (Photoshop, StarNet++,…) but still somehow achieve the same result with PixInsight (Star+Noise+BlurXTerminator) 🎉
Star+Noise+BlurXTerminators are the game changer.
Thank you for another great video. I was wondering if you have compared your Canon Ra in crop mode (Apsc Mode) vs a cooled Apsc Astro camera? I use my modified Canon R in crop mode on my Celestron C6 due to the image circle. I would assume a Full Frame camera would have a better SNR than the Rebel camera even in crop mode and using only 12mb of the sensor.
I've never tried it - I'll add it to my list.
In general, Full frame sensor don't necessarily have lower noise than smaller sensors. This is commonly repeated, but it's a generalization that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
For best performance, the sensor MTF should be matched to the imaging MTF. For many years now the typical sensor pixels have been much smaller than what the lens resolves, meaning poor performance. But "high resolution" is the false goal. In optics, the weakest link governs, always.
Obviously the dedicated Astro cam has less noise and better signal to noise ratio, because the sensor is newer and better than the one in the old canon. Otherwise there was no sense in buying those right? Anyway nice to see that for short exposures the difference is not that big as expected!
I live in a Bortle 9 area (dm'ed you saying it was 7, but is 9, with more than 2 million people in the city and 3 million people in the metropolitan área) and I'm current facing this exactly question:should I mod my old d7100 or buy a zwo (either the 183 pro or 533 pro). I was already inclined to buy a dedicated zwo and now I'm even more sure that it's the right move. And also those dual band filter. Thanks for sharing! Clear skies!
Thanks support ... what is best for telescope ? DSLR or astro cam?
I think comparing cooled and uncooled camera ins't same league.
You can take a planetary camera with a large sensor to do the comparison, and actually price can be way more attractive than DSLR. And camera is much lighter giving less strain on the focuser and the mount itself. Also talking about software control dedicated cameras are much easier (if you use software) - for example when using DSLR with capture software/processing in real time there is almost never frame-rate = 1/exposure time.
When there is clear advantage for DSLR:
1. You already have it so single use camera becomes dual use
2. You already have good lenses that can be used for AP so you save on getting short focal length scopes
3. You want to do general photography and thus it is dual use from other direction.
If you don't have DSLR I think getting a good planetary camera can be way cheaper and easier. BTW if you are doing EAA or at least non-guided photography you can try OpenLiveStacker on Android tablet/phone instead of using mini-PC...
yea and the $1000 price difference is the point of comparing. Planetary camera with 'large' sensor? The most popular planetary cameras are no where near APS-C.
You can do deep sky with a planetary camera, but you end up with 1000s of frames to stack. I have seen some outstanding images and may try with my ZWO 224MC, just for fun.
The video presents a comparison. The info is good. One can always do more research or spend more money.
Wow, $1500 for that Ogma cam is so pricey ! I could just get my older 50D modified for about $200 professionally.
Excellent!
Congratulations for your channel! My conundrum goes a bit deeper, i have a cooled and astromodified Central DS (with no temperature control) Canon 60D, currently my main rig is a canon EF 500mm f4 L IS USM mounted on a HEQ5, still wondering if a camera like the ASI 533MC-pro wouldn represent a big jump in sensitivity and overall image quality to justify the investment in all the added peripherals
I think it will be considerable, or at least noticeable when you look at the unprocessed stacks like in the video. The 60D is fairly old (although I still use mine too!). Keep in mind the 533 is a much smaller sensor, so look at some FOV visualization tools before buying. For example, only 1/2 of Andromeda galaxy would fit on the 533 sensor at 500mm f.l.
@@NebulaPhotos thank you for the reply, it is indeed a huge jump, something around 1300mm, if i estimate a average of my total RMS is around 1 arcsecond, that meight be a problem down the pipe
Thank for this review. I have a suggestion Nico, can you review the 599 dollar OGMA APO08CC HDR Camera because it looks like a good camera for beginners as a better option than a DSLR but I have not seen anyone review it.
Can you do a imaging and processing tutorial for a star cluster? I can’t figure out how to process the Hercules star cluster in photoshop or Siri.
Thanks for video, but the astronomy camera (Ogma AP26CC) is out of my budget, especially purchasing a Celestron 6SE. Is there a cheaper astronomy camera you can get for someone in the middle of the road (beginner and next step up)?
ZWO ASI 533mc pro
Check out player one cameras.
Are you going to do a review of that Askar FMA 180 Pro? Looks like a nice little scope, but curious about star size, shape and chromatic aberration issues - compared to perhaps a RedCat51.
Very good video comparing those two cameras. I am a dslr camera user and I am highly interested in an askar telescope, the fma 180 mm or the 230mm. Are they still having problems with the coma aberration?...I read somewhere that is a common problem on those scopes. Thanks for any help on this. I forgot to mention, my budget is under $1000. Thanks again and CS!
I suspect the OGMA APC26CC is a rebranded Toupcam/Risingcam (see Cuiv the Lazy Geek on yt: "My ASTROCAMERA got a design refresh!.")
In the UK this is branded as Altair Astro 26C.
Identical specs - different colour. The interesting thing about the latest ones is that they have bolt holes on the front plate that support a ZWO bolt on (eg 2") filter wheel. Not so important for the colour one but the mono version does the same.
Yes, it is. Didn’t know about the bolt pattern - cool!
Hi, Nico, I have a dilemma, and I was wondering if you could advise me. I have a Fuji XH2, but I am not sure which mod to go with.
Could you make a quiz for mono vs OSC?
Get one and wish for the other until you get it... Then flip flop back and forth until you retire and sell the one that suits on the shelf. Always remember that the more gear you have, the easier it is to smuggle in new gear without your significant other noticing and the more confused as to which to use on a particular night you can become! 😜
Just a newbie question here. I just got the same mount and i use a dslr on a skywatcher evostar 72ED (hope i remember the name correctly haha). I would expect with a goto mount to be able to at least capture couple of minutes without any visible trailing. However i can only go up to 50 secs. I'm sure my polar alignment technique can be improved (feel free to suggest any vids on this 😁), but is it possible to reach 5 minute exposures like you without a guiding scope?
Thanks for the amazing vid, your channel is very useful for people like me. Keep it up!
I was using both a smaller imaging scope (Askar FMA180) and a guide scope (William Optics 32mm uniguide). With the 72ED on the GTi, 50 seconds without guiding seems reasonable to me. I'd just bump up the ISO to get a good exposure (1/3 histogram) and go with lots of 50 sec. subs. Cheers, Nico