What makes Frieren's demons fascinating is that they're not necessarily intentionally villainous but rather using humanity as a form of aggressive mimicry. They're predators seeking out human prey using their hard-wired survival skill for faking human compassion. Think of it like how an angler fish doesn't carry duplicitous, evil intent to harm other fish just because its body has a built-in mechanism for luring smaller fish.
You literally missed the point and tried to shoehorn in the “they’re just misunderstood” trope Nate discussed. None of what you said matters. All that matters is they are a threat with whom humans can’t negotiate. By the way, that they admit they take advantage of human sympathies is pretty intentional.
Nah, man. These demons ain't like animal loving people that keep animals in farms, these are poachers that kill animals for fun, and sometimes food. Maybe if we get an episode about demons keeping human farms, complete with milkers. THEN maybe I'd think of them just misunderstood humans with horns.
Maybe I didn't get my point across clearly, but I agree that demons in this series are a threat that cannot be reasoned with. I just think it's neat that instead of being bad due to a twisted moral system, they're bad because human notions of morality don't even register with them in the first place. Humans want to see demons as equals, but demons see humans as prey. Their ability to look and act as if they're just poor, misunderstood humans with horns is the high-level camouflage of a species that developed to hunt other highly intelligent species@@6packproductions710
I love Frieren the character so much. She is so well fleshed out as a character, full of flaws, full of charm, and while so dry in her responses and humor so often it really hits that funny bone when she really lets her emotions out. That smug smirk over the clothing dissolving potion still gets me
"NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST TAKE OUR SUPER DUPER HUMAN KILLING SPELL AND REPURPOSE IT TO KILL DEMONS IN A VENGEFUL ACT OF IRONY!!1!!" "heeheehee zoltraak"
The funny thing is that the whole debate about the morality of killing demons started when demons started to look like people. When we first met Qual no one seemed worried about killing him, but he seemed extremely intelligent and quickly figured out new defense spell and finding his weaknesses. The short airtime Qual got showed that he had more personality than the entire Aura group. however, no one seems to discuss about him because he was a big, clunky monster even he was the same species as his human-like brothers
You did it Nate. You have survived TWO major threatening events towards your TH-cam career and you're still here brother. You're an authentic creator that might not be mainstream but you are main on my stream (kek). Keep them coming!
This story has been the best thing I've seen since LOTR. And it's so refreshing to watch a series where it's about the heart of the characters, and the demons are actually demons.
The adaption of Frieren has been so damn phenomenal and glad we're ending the season with the first class mage exam plus Frieren herself is such a great wingman and the music OH MAI GAWD it's so good
The best part of Frieren is discovering just how much SHE IS “HER”!!!! This chick does not fuck around whatsoever when it comes to battle. And especially against demons. I think she is def the best character in anime of at least the last five years or so…….well except Himmel that is, because HE IS HIM!!
Hey man, haven’t watched your stuff since I was hella depressed like six years ago. Those were weird times and you helped me hold onto some joy, so thank you. Checked this one out because I LOVE Frieren and I’m glad I did! You still got it! Hope you’re doing well my dude, you are a good special boy 😙
I shall endeavor to provide. 🙏 Theres always the patron podcasts, like 20 of the suckers on there, if you feel like coughing up 5 bucks in the meantime. Workin hard on the next release regardless.
Thank god you got your channel back! My sleepless nights havent been same without your amazing lectures, gona put on the kingdom hearts lecture right now, 🙏BLESS🙏
Apparently later in Frieren's story, there is a Daemon who tries to work with humanity, and understand their emotions like "love", and "anger". They never do, they are literally incapable of doing so and even when dying cannot feel regret for their lifelong quest failing to be accomplished.
I'm gonna be real with you chief. I never doubted Frieren for a second. If she says it's on sight it's on sight. That being said, a thing I noticed that doesn't make sense in the story is that Frieren claims that demons only speak language so that they can trick humans, but that's how demons themselves communicate with each other even when there're no humans around. If speaking was just to trick humans then demon would be silent when hanging, or have some other way. So it's possible that something more is going on.
The very fact that they can speak with each other doesnt meen that speech wasnt a weapon against humanity to begin with. Demons just learned from humans and mimiced something thought years. They evolved in that way, not just randomly choosed to
I noticed that too. The show has yet to show Frieren making such a big mistake, other than her lack of appreciation toward Himmel. But it’s the sort of thing I feel the story is building up to. Frieren is right about most things….except some really, really huge things.
there is complexity to evil. EVery Oda's villains have their own justification, still become unflisnhingly evil with no moral ground and no new leaf to turn over
9:40 the point, to me, is that none should actually see themselves as Orcs. They are embodiment of evil, who in the world is the embodiment of evil, which is correct to eradicate from the world. I think Tolkien's works are there to teach also that if you start sympathyse towards evil to the point of feeling yourself more in their shoes than in the good guys, well, you might start think about the path you're following to be fair, maybe is not that great after all
I felt that the show just hit me over the head with the sentimentality right out of the gate before I could come to care about any of these characters, no time to bake in the oven. I might give it another try. I also think that the moral position of the show highlights that a variety of storytelling styles in the medium is a good thing. Escapism should be as prevalent and respected as realism, I think that a lot of people are too obsessed with realism. I get enough reality at my job.
You actually come to grow more attached to the characters after they've already died, because the show is practically half flashbacks and Frieren connecting her adventures then to the adventure now.
My recommendation for this show would be it’s probably not for you if you aren’t comfortable with a baseline of mild melancholy. For me at least, it’s not really a casual watch, it always makes me ruminate on my own life and human nature. It’s certainly not always as sad and sappy as the first episode though, very playful as well. But I would approach it as a contemplative thing most of all.
Just thought of this too: the sentimentality right out the gate is important, but keep in mind why it’s in the first episode. It was the end of The Hero’s story, Heiter certainly doesn’t have another 50 years in him, and even Eisen is becoming an old man by dwarf standards. But the show is for Frieren, and she is just starting a new chapter. Only, this is the first time in a while she’s turned a page and felt so much impact. She’s left so many friends behind given her age, the fact that this loss shakes her so much is obviously a HUGE deal, even without knowing anything about their relationship (other than she seemingly made no effort to maintain it for fifty years). Admittedly, the show doesn’t say all of this explicitly, but I think that’s what the first episode is going for. The point is not to make the viewer cry the Frieren cries, it’s to make you ask, why is she crying? As the other commenter mentioned, the answer is largely given in flashbacks.
Fern is the way she is because of Frieren. She was taken in by a priest at an orphanage and was shipped off with the greatest elf mage to learn magic. You can’t blame her for Frierens teaching technique lol
I love that they technically could control their mana but since they’re animals that use mana for everything. It’s the basis of their hierarchy, they can’t even think of the possibility of manipulating it. Basically if they hid their power level every other demon would trash on them for being pathetic and weak. It’s basically an instant way to ostracize yourself from all other demons.
If the demons killing humans is justified by them trying to live life the way they see fit, so is humans killing demons in pursuit if the same goal. However, if demons are sapient, sentient creatures they have the capability to not do that. The nature of sapience is the ability to reckon with ones own nature and to choose how to deal with it. The problem with demons is that, due to absence of empathy and overconfidence, they are not motivated to do so. The ending of the demons in this Story will probably end similar to parasyte, where the survivors of the species will integrate (and tone down or forego their destructive natures) because they understand they are outmatched.
Awesome to see you enjoying Frieren and to make a video about it where you talk about Gurren Lagann too. By the way, did you get a chance to watch the gurren lagann movies in teathers?
12:20 true. Same as DS. The reason i like that show most of any others: is it good to understand others, but for the same reason, is needed to stop them if they do too much harm to others.
no one is worthy of trust right away just like no one is worthy of scorn right away and when someone tells you who they are believe them and be self aware
2:54 Funnyily enough, Frieren doesn't go out of her way to hunt down demons. She spent 500 years doing her own thing even demons where freely running around before she met Himmel. She only kills them when they get in her way. And always, it's the demon's fault
The back to the basics of Demons BAD, Humans GOOD is so refreshing. B-BUT LE NUANCES; B-BUT LE ONE DIMENSIONAL VILLAINS; B-BUT LE SHADES OF GRAY AAAAHHHHHH
Another lovely BGE upload 😎In particular, I appreciate the callback to the "I would really prefer if you would be quiet" GDQ clip. Reminded me of that masterpiece of cringe.
"I have a large suspicion that this is a set up to do something like present a demon who avoids harming humans despite ghe urge or something." There is something resembling that later in the manga, beyond the scope of what has currently been greenlit to be adated to anime (would probably be at the end of a potential season 2). However, like most things in the Frieren story, particularly as pertains to the demons, it's a bit more complex than that.
a small correction, there are a few demons that truly want to cooexist (stop reading if you don't want manga spoilers). For example one of the seven sages (macht of el dorado) attempts to cooexist with them and even teach them, however he fails to understand sorrow and regret so his means can be malicious. It's also mentioned that initially the demon king had similar ambitions
14:50 Not really,she was just trying to save her own ass from being hated by the mother. "i will give you this new kid,so you stop resent me and watching me" So no,the demon kid was not trying to do a good deed,it was just another excuse for killing, and she was good, she got you good nateman.
For me it was not an excuse. Demons are all about self preservation (since they form no bond with each others, their life is all what matters). For the demon kid it was simple : the woman is angry against me because she lost her daughter, if I give her a daughter she won't have any reason to hate me and potentially kill me anymore. But since demons form no bonds (they barely work with each other when needed) she could not understand how each human bond is special, unique and irreplacable.
It is so weird seeing people talking about a setup for a payoff you already seem. But yeah, that payoff is probably one of the best antagonist of all time
And then years later when S2 gets animated, it'll get more discussion than the current talks about the demon in this series. Eldorado as the best arc(no one can change mu mind)
I think part of the point is that Flamme forging Frieren into a slayer has made her more similar to demons, becoming anti-social, deceptive and emotionally stunted. Flamme only slightly tried to course-correct when she was a old woman, by teaching her the flower spell, which later on helped her development. To systematically fight sociopaths she started thinking somewhat like them and she might not have linked up with the other party members and succeeded if she had gone too far down that path. Tbh the demon arc in the generic town, with party members seperated and the battle against Aura a obvious build-up for a easy W was kind of a drag. Slice-of-life episodes are superior.
soon maybe in ss2, the El Dolrado arc, we will see more about demons and why they are "evil" in comparison to human or any other species. The more they want to comprehend and co-exist with human, the more destructions are made by them.
the lord of the rings comparison is interesting but i think it doesn't work as a classic vs modernist approach to fantasy? in lotr some people are just evil because they belong to the sphere of influence of a guy who rebelled against god. in Frieren, especially in an arc that hasn't been animated yet, there's actually a lot of discussion and examination on if and why demons are evil and if that applies to every single member of that species. (yes, they evolved that way, they are inherently antisocial and incapable of empathy on a basic level) Frieren is interested in having a discussion about morality here, it just comes to a very simple answer
I mean even in Tolkien's notes he was kind of stuck trying to figure out the Orc Question. He essentially created a race of enemy NPCs to fill out his story but then realized the implications after publication and was stuck trying to find a way/reason for them to be evil on their own
@@DKNguyen3.1415 'The question of whether they are intrinsically evil is never brought up, and several of Tolkien's unpublished works suggest that this was due to his own misgivings with the concept of a wholly evil race. Melkor had no power to create other beings himself, but the fact that elves could be corrupted would also imply Eru had either made the souls of some elves either inherently evil or easily corrupted to become evil. Unlike Melkor, Sauron, and Balrogs who were spiritual beings that made an active choice to be evil, Orcs are universally portrayed as evil which means they could be evil from birth which was strongly against Tolkien's strong Catholic beliefs in the nature of good and evil. This in turn contradicted his own views on the nature of Eru as a wholly good deity while also opening up some thorny questions of faith for Tolkien himself, and even in his last writings it appears he could not come up with a satisfactory explanation for how they could be universally evil by nature."
@@cyberninjazero5659 Isn't there some line where Eru says that all the introduced flaws are ultimately part of his plan anyways? Seems to me that line pretty much states that Eru expected, and allows everything to happen.
@@DKNguyen3.1415 In the broadest possible sense yes but Tolkien specifically has the view that evil cannot create only corrupt, so Tolkien is left with the question of how Orcs come about. They can't be created by Morgoth and Sauron as he originally decided and he can't have Eru create beings specifically to be evil and even if Orcs are corrupted from other beings that only solves the first generation, you'd still have questions like "is a baby orc evil and why?" Remember these aren't the dumb brutes of later media Tolkien's orcs were cunning, industrious and clever so fully sapient and not like Goblins in fantasy for example who are always dumb savages. So Tolkien was stuck, he workshopped several different origins but couldn't stick to one. The Orc Question is Tolkien's paradox
I had my phase after toddlerhood where I wanted deeper nuance and a gray area to my villains in fiction, and of course I still do, depending on the story and context. But I've seriously gotten sick of the tropes present in such genres. I've really, really enjoyed stories where there was an unequivocal evil to be vanquished without question or hesitation, that requires people to work together to overcome the threat. This is why I loved Attack on Titan so much when it first came out, and why my interest in the series took a nose dive after the basement reveal. It wasn't a bad story, and obviously it's correct in the message it delivered, but I guess I just wanted the realest power fantasy of them all: humanity uniting together in unparalleled support for one another in order to conquer a greater threat.
The demon thing is probably my least favorite part of Frieren. They are written to be only that which we consider evil, and to serve the function of only ever opposing the wellbeing of humanity. This means that they are written as entities whose concept is formed in relation to humanity with no sense of its own, independent existence. Even if Tolkien had a story that made the sides of good and evil blatantly clear, he also had a clear sense of who the bad guys were and what motivated them, and found a way to make that evil reflected in both the protagonists and humanity at large. And even in that context, Tolkien takes time to question how cut and dry the conflict is, take this passage: "He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace -- all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind." By comparison, Frieren seems to be searching for a villainous force that can exist in the story without conveying any sort of meaning at all. And if the series is just waiting a while to do that, then it has spent an awfully long time not developing a very significant aspect of the story, and would probably be better off finding an antagonistic force that doesn't carry this level of personification or focus.
Why would Frieren need an overarching villainous force tho? Most of the overconfident and power hungry demons were part of the demon king’s army and were almost wiped out. Aura and her executioners are cowardly demons who fled from the war, hid until the death of Himmel, to come out. Qual is nothing like her. Do not forget that demons are extremely individualistic too. Every powerful demon has a different mindset and set of priorities. You would be surprised by how interesting they can be. But they can’t be introduced too early in the story because they are way too powerful in an incomprehensible way(not raw mana or strength). They are only alive because of their incomprehensible strength. And you would realise that Demons are not even the worst part the more North you go.
@@neerajcherukuri4052 I am saying that if you want to make characters who just default to evil you need to find a reason for their goals to be opposed to those of humanity, or you probably shouldn't give them characterization or focus. Like why aren't there demons who have just decided that while they don't have human emotions, they also understand that humans are generally dangerous, so they just go about the countryside slaughtering animals that can't reasonably fight back, and looking for random bits of magic like Frieren? There are plenty of examples of high functioning psychopaths in the real world, you need more than just "they don't understand human emotions" to make someone evil. The justification of "they're just evil" doesn't fly by any standard, not just the "modernist" (should probably be called the "post-modernist" or just "modern") standard.
@@jpickens189 it's not just that demons don't understand human emotions. They don't feel some of them too. I feel like I would go into spoilers if I went further. All I will say is this- Demon king started war against humanity because he wants to find a way to coexist with humanity. And also, demons aren't evil. Would you call a tiger evil for killing a goat? It's just their nature. How can you call them evil when they can't even comprehend what malice is? Demons are defined by Flamme as monsters with human speech. You've not seen enough demons in the anime to decide the intricacies of how all demons act.
@@neerajcherukuri4052 I have spoiled myself on everything, don't worry. Psychopaths also don't feel human emotions, but they definitely can understand how to coexist peacefully just based on the fact that it fulfills their interests. What is missing here is a broader motivation to engage in the conflict in the first place, esp. if it has been established that humans are actually dangerous. In the tiger example, tigers eat goats because goats don't generally fight back, and they are the food that is most readily available. It is not just their nature, it is a reasonable decision based off their needs and capabilities at a particular time. The king might have done so out of curiosity, but why does everyone else do so? It just feels very artificially constructed around making them an unambiguous antagonistic force, rather than just thinking of how they work openly and writing whatever follows logically from that.
@@jpickens189 humans used to be way weaker when the war started. Flamme legalised magic and humanity slowly grew stronger. I feel like it's just preferences at this point. I get what you say, but there are a hundred fantasy novels and anime that do that. It felt refreshing for me when they subverted that trope. And I love the way demons are written. Because that's the only way characters like Macht and Solitar can exist. I particularly didn't care about demons when I first read the manga, but by the time of Macht's arc, I was enjoying every word and thought of his. And about the tiger and goat example. That's literally how frieren kills demons. She appears weaker than them and kills them easily. This simple trick made her the person to kill the most demons in history. Demons generally don't fight people with more mana than them. If anything, this proves that an average demon is closer to an animal than human.
I totally agree that presenting a simple, unambiguously evil villain can free up the story to focus on and flesh out the protagonists and other characters instead. Now if you could please explain what's supposed to be compelling about these cardboard characters or the themes surrounding them and their arcs that would be great
@@BestGuyEver It definitely feels like everyone hyping this show up misleads about its strengths, praising its characterization and themes. You could pluck out just about any of the arcs/sidequests that have taken place in the show and it wouldn't change anything for the characters. The way the story justifies these detours thematically is usually by having the party meet someone who mourns or reminisces about a dead loved one, paralleling Frieren's own regrets. But I just wish the story could explore the value of human connection by, y'know, having LIVING characters affecting one another, gathering insights from each other's unique perspectives, shifting their values and growing as a result. Early on in the show, Frieren seemed to struggle to grasp human values; she'd constantly annoy others by talking about long timespans like they're nothing, for example. But when her new adventure starts in earnest, it suddenly seems she has nothing to learn. I honestly have enough grievances about this show to fill a terabyte hard drive, but I'll end it there for the sake of brevity. I must admit there is something occasionally endearing about this band of autistic goofballs bouncing off one another, and it makes for some fun memes and fan works. The show can be enjoyable if one's expectations are properly tempered. I will never stop seething about this show being #1 on MAL, though.
@@BoredyTF2 If you're willing and don't put much work into this, what are like the top 10 must watch, stand-out anime one "should" watch. Ones which you would say stand out by being atleast like a 9/10 in every aspect. I've seen the super popular stuff like NGE, Gits, gurren lagann and so on. Haven't yet touched utena or gundam for example.
What makes Frieren's demons fascinating is that they're not necessarily intentionally villainous but rather using humanity as a form of aggressive mimicry. They're predators seeking out human prey using their hard-wired survival skill for faking human compassion. Think of it like how an angler fish doesn't carry duplicitous, evil intent to harm other fish just because its body has a built-in mechanism for luring smaller fish.
You literally missed the point and tried to shoehorn in the “they’re just misunderstood” trope Nate discussed. None of what you said matters. All that matters is they are a threat with whom humans can’t negotiate. By the way, that they admit they take advantage of human sympathies is pretty intentional.
Nah, man. These demons ain't like animal loving people that keep animals in farms, these are poachers that kill animals for fun, and sometimes food.
Maybe if we get an episode about demons keeping human farms, complete with milkers. THEN maybe I'd think of them just misunderstood humans with horns.
Maybe I didn't get my point across clearly, but I agree that demons in this series are a threat that cannot be reasoned with. I just think it's neat that instead of being bad due to a twisted moral system, they're bad because human notions of morality don't even register with them in the first place. Humans want to see demons as equals, but demons see humans as prey. Their ability to look and act as if they're just poor, misunderstood humans with horns is the high-level camouflage of a species that developed to hunt other highly intelligent species@@6packproductions710
@@6packproductions710 They weren't saying demons are misunderstood or deserving of sympathy.
@@TheNobleFivewell its sounds that way when you go out of your way to use a 'they not evil' fish metaphor
“What’s a father?”
“No idea lol”
-demons
"you have no enemies, we can all co-exist together" said the demon
"No" *Zoltraak* best elf replies
Actually that was another character.
I love Frieren the character so much. She is so well fleshed out as a character, full of flaws, full of charm, and while so dry in her responses and humor so often it really hits that funny bone when she really lets her emotions out. That smug smirk over the clothing dissolving potion still gets me
She's extremely endearing, it's undeniable.
"NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST TAKE OUR SUPER DUPER HUMAN KILLING SPELL AND REPURPOSE IT TO KILL DEMONS IN A VENGEFUL ACT OF IRONY!!1!!"
"heeheehee zoltraak"
"zoltraak go brrrr"
Ordinary Offensive Magic™
The funny thing is that the whole debate about the morality of killing demons started when demons started to look like people. When we first met Qual no one seemed worried about killing him, but he seemed extremely intelligent and quickly figured out new defense spell and finding his weaknesses.
The short airtime Qual got showed that he had more personality than the entire Aura group. however, no one seems to discuss about him because he was a big, clunky monster even he was the same species as his human-like brothers
Real restraint not putting 800 lewds from the Hews catalogue Nate, Herculean self discipline.
11/10
You did it Nate. You have survived TWO major threatening events towards your TH-cam career and you're still here brother. You're an authentic creator that might not be mainstream but you are main on my stream (kek). Keep them coming!
FRIEREN AHHHHH
How dare you mock Fern, Nate. You will not be forgiven.
Shes grown on me more but Frieren shines like the sun next to her lmao
She's a typical childish teenager who's convinced they're an adult. She has a stick up her v and needs to grow the f up. Letters.
This story has been the best thing I've seen since LOTR. And it's so refreshing to watch a series where it's about the heart of the characters, and the demons are actually demons.
Very happy the channel is back bge!
The adaption of Frieren has been so damn phenomenal and glad we're ending the season with the first class mage exam plus Frieren herself is such a great wingman and the music OH MAI GAWD it's so good
This show’s take on demons is such a breath of fresh air, not even kidding
Glad to see you back king!
He’s back! With a vengeance
glad to see the channel back man!
When I saw Johan from Monster as a demon I knew this shit was about to get good.
The best part of Frieren is discovering just how much SHE IS “HER”!!!! This chick does not fuck around whatsoever when it comes to battle. And especially against demons. I think she is def the best character in anime of at least the last five years or so…….well except Himmel that is, because HE IS HIM!!
DO THE IMPOSSIBLE BREAK THE UNBREAKABLE
Hey man, haven’t watched your stuff since I was hella depressed like six years ago. Those were weird times and you helped me hold onto some joy, so thank you.
Checked this one out because I LOVE Frieren and I’m glad I did! You still got it! Hope you’re doing well my dude, you are a good special boy 😙
A monthly upload?
I USED TO PRAY FOR TIMES LIKE THESE
OMG!!! I'M SO HAPPY MAN!!! YOUR ARE BACK!!! YOU REALLY ARE THE BEST GUY EVER!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! IT'S TRUEEEE!!!
Thank you, Baxter
ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER!
its a good day when BGE uploads a video.
Please make more videos my guy, please. Going back through all the videos, lectures, and PCP podcasts.
I shall endeavor to provide. 🙏
Theres always the patron podcasts, like 20 of the suckers on there, if you feel like coughing up 5 bucks in the meantime. Workin hard on the next release regardless.
They free'd our guy
El Dorado arc was cooking with the concept of Demons Co existing with humans but it's ending is interesting
and based on schlacht all of it is part of his plan
grats nate!
WE
ARE
SO
FUCKING
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Hi, Medieval demon commenter here. What the fuck dude
we're so back
Thank god you got your channel back! My sleepless nights havent been same without your amazing lectures, gona put on the kingdom hearts lecture right now, 🙏BLESS🙏
Apparently later in Frieren's story, there is a Daemon who tries to work with humanity, and understand their emotions like "love", and "anger". They never do, they are literally incapable of doing so and even when dying cannot feel regret for their lifelong quest failing to be accomplished.
He's back
i just wanna say that there is a story arc that solidifies the nature of demons in frieren and i'm really looking forward to see it in animation
I'm really glad Nate is providing us bite-size content to consume while he actively works on the definitive 5 hour Nika analysis video.
OH MY RUBBER NEN-IKA
I'm gonna be real with you chief. I never doubted Frieren for a second. If she says it's on sight it's on sight. That being said, a thing I noticed that doesn't make sense in the story is that Frieren claims that demons only speak language so that they can trick humans, but that's how demons themselves communicate with each other even when there're no humans around. If speaking was just to trick humans then demon would be silent when hanging, or have some other way. So it's possible that something more is going on.
The very fact that they can speak with each other doesnt meen that speech wasnt a weapon against humanity to begin with. Demons just learned from humans and mimiced something thought years. They evolved in that way, not just randomly choosed to
It can make total sense in so far as it is Frieren's view on the matter and that she does not know what demons are up to when she is not around.
I noticed that too. The show has yet to show Frieren making such a big mistake, other than her lack of appreciation toward Himmel. But it’s the sort of thing I feel the story is building up to. Frieren is right about most things….except some really, really huge things.
there is complexity to evil. EVery Oda's villains have their own justification, still become unflisnhingly evil with no moral ground and no new leaf to turn over
WE SO BACK!
Best Guy Ever back with best takes ever
There is indeed a big arc later on that focuses on the demon thing and I think you'll really like it.
IT'S BACK!
Welcome back!
We’re SO UNBELIEVABLY BACK BABY
Starting off strong I see
Ahh splendid video best man ever
9:40 the point, to me, is that none should actually see themselves as Orcs. They are embodiment of evil, who in the world is the embodiment of evil, which is correct to eradicate from the world. I think Tolkien's works are there to teach also that if you start sympathyse towards evil to the point of feeling yourself more in their shoes than in the good guys, well, you might start think about the path you're following to be fair, maybe is not that great after all
Cool video
Beautiful video
Just when you think this channel hits you with a It's so over, Nate hits you with a We're so back! Waiting for Stand Alone Complex vid still.
I felt that the show just hit me over the head with the sentimentality right out of the gate before I could come to care about any of these characters, no time to bake in the oven. I might give it another try.
I also think that the moral position of the show highlights that a variety of storytelling styles in the medium is a good thing. Escapism should be as prevalent and respected as realism, I think that a lot of people are too obsessed with realism. I get enough reality at my job.
Indeed!
You actually come to grow more attached to the characters after they've already died, because the show is practically half flashbacks and Frieren connecting her adventures then to the adventure now.
My recommendation for this show would be it’s probably not for you if you aren’t comfortable with a baseline of mild melancholy. For me at least, it’s not really a casual watch, it always makes me ruminate on my own life and human nature. It’s certainly not always as sad and sappy as the first episode though, very playful as well. But I would approach it as a contemplative thing most of all.
Just thought of this too: the sentimentality right out the gate is important, but keep in mind why it’s in the first episode. It was the end of The Hero’s story, Heiter certainly doesn’t have another 50 years in him, and even Eisen is becoming an old man by dwarf standards. But the show is for Frieren, and she is just starting a new chapter. Only, this is the first time in a while she’s turned a page and felt so much impact. She’s left so many friends behind given her age, the fact that this loss shakes her so much is obviously a HUGE deal, even without knowing anything about their relationship (other than she seemingly made no effort to maintain it for fifty years).
Admittedly, the show doesn’t say all of this explicitly, but I think that’s what the first episode is going for. The point is not to make the viewer cry the Frieren cries, it’s to make you ask, why is she crying? As the other commenter mentioned, the answer is largely given in flashbacks.
What is the name of the Anime you showed at 12:00?
gurren lagann
@@georgalex62 Thanks for the anserw.
Fern is the way she is because of Frieren. She was taken in by a priest at an orphanage and was shipped off with the greatest elf mage to learn magic.
You can’t blame her for Frierens teaching technique lol
I love that they technically could control their mana but since they’re animals that use mana for everything. It’s the basis of their hierarchy, they can’t even think of the possibility of manipulating it.
Basically if they hid their power level every other demon would trash on them for being pathetic and weak. It’s basically an instant way to ostracize yourself from all other demons.
Top notch as always Mr. Basedman
If the demons killing humans is justified by them trying to live life the way they see fit, so is humans killing demons in pursuit if the same goal. However, if demons are sapient, sentient creatures they have the capability to not do that. The nature of sapience is the ability to reckon with ones own nature and to choose how to deal with it. The problem with demons is that, due to absence of empathy and overconfidence, they are not motivated to do so. The ending of the demons in this Story will probably end similar to parasyte, where the survivors of the species will integrate (and tone down or forego their destructive natures) because they understand they are outmatched.
Interested in your take on Macht later on and the situation that unfolds in El Dorado
2 months and no new videos? Very lazy. You hate to see it
True.
Awesome to see you enjoying Frieren and to make a video about it where you talk about Gurren Lagann too. By the way, did you get a chance to watch the gurren lagann movies in teathers?
god i love the thumbnail
It was a labor of love! (and murderous intent)
FIGHT THE POWER
Demons are bad, unequivocally
12:20 true. Same as DS. The reason i like that show most of any others: is it good to understand others, but for the same reason, is needed to stop them if they do too much harm to others.
Understand and accept are not the same things. We should understand why and how evil exists, but we shouldn't accept it.
@@jarleikkeland i agree, good way to put it
no one is worthy of trust right away just like no one is worthy of scorn right away and when someone tells you who they are believe them and be self aware
What anime does this clip come from? 0:24
Chad Pure Simple & Evil vs The Virgin Justified and Morally Challenging
We're back baby
2:54 Funnyily enough, Frieren doesn't go out of her way to hunt down demons. She spent 500 years doing her own thing even demons where freely running around before she met Himmel. She only kills them when they get in her way. And always, it's the demon's fault
12:26 BestGuyEver I didn't know you was cool like that
I actually didn't remembered i didn't watched the video before the channel deletion. So i got a double new video.
We are so back
Love u guy
Welcome back gamer
The back to the basics of Demons BAD, Humans GOOD is so refreshing. B-BUT LE NUANCES; B-BUT LE ONE DIMENSIONAL VILLAINS; B-BUT LE SHADES OF GRAY AAAAHHHHHH
that goblin slayer/frieren team up page is gold.
and should be a homm3 scenario
and now I want to add Lelouch
Another lovely BGE upload 😎In particular, I appreciate the callback to the "I would really prefer if you would be quiet" GDQ clip. Reminded me of that masterpiece of cringe.
"I have a large suspicion that this is a set up to do something like present a demon who avoids harming humans despite ghe urge or something."
There is something resembling that later in the manga, beyond the scope of what has currently been greenlit to be adated to anime (would probably be at the end of a potential season 2). However, like most things in the Frieren story, particularly as pertains to the demons, it's a bit more complex than that.
a small correction, there are a few demons that truly want to cooexist (stop reading if you don't want manga spoilers). For example one of the seven sages (macht of el dorado) attempts to cooexist with them and even teach them, however he fails to understand sorrow and regret so his means can be malicious. It's also mentioned that initially the demon king had similar ambitions
I stopped reading, but why did you start spoiling before the warning?
@@MsNikeNike that's not really a spoiler. I'm not spoiling the actual plot or characters.
@@MsNikeNike either way mb
At a time with immigration being a key issue during an election year.
What could BGE mean with this timely upload?
14:50 Not really,she was just trying to save her own ass from being hated by the mother.
"i will give you this new kid,so you stop resent me and watching me"
So no,the demon kid was not trying to do a good deed,it was just another excuse for killing, and she was good, she got you good nateman.
Actually, we will never find out the demon kid's motives .
For me it was not an excuse. Demons are all about self preservation (since they form no bond with each others, their life is all what matters). For the demon kid it was simple : the woman is angry against me because she lost her daughter, if I give her a daughter she won't have any reason to hate me and potentially kill me anymore. But since demons form no bonds (they barely work with each other when needed) she could not understand how each human bond is special, unique and irreplacable.
It is so weird seeing people talking about a setup for a payoff you already seem. But yeah, that payoff is probably one of the best antagonist of all time
So what you're saying is, Monster Girl Quest video is next?
And then years later when S2 gets animated, it'll get more discussion than the current talks about the demon in this series. Eldorado as the best arc(no one can change mu mind)
can't wait until we meet Macht in the series
I think part of the point is that Flamme forging Frieren into a slayer has made her more similar to demons, becoming anti-social, deceptive and emotionally stunted. Flamme only slightly tried to course-correct when she was a old woman, by teaching her the flower spell, which later on helped her development. To systematically fight sociopaths she started thinking somewhat like them and she might not have linked up with the other party members and succeeded if she had gone too far down that path.
Tbh the demon arc in the generic town, with party members seperated and the battle against Aura a obvious build-up for a easy W was kind of a drag. Slice-of-life episodes are superior.
OK, that Sam Hyde bit got me good.
soon maybe in ss2, the El Dolrado arc, we will see more about demons and why they are "evil" in comparison to human or any other species. The more they want to comprehend and co-exist with human, the more destructions are made by them.
the lord of the rings comparison is interesting but i think it doesn't work as a classic vs modernist approach to fantasy?
in lotr some people are just evil because they belong to the sphere of influence of a guy who rebelled against god.
in Frieren, especially in an arc that hasn't been animated yet, there's actually a lot of discussion and examination on if and why demons are evil and if that applies to every single member of that species. (yes, they evolved that way, they are inherently antisocial and incapable of empathy on a basic level)
Frieren is interested in having a discussion about morality here, it just comes to a very simple answer
I mean even in Tolkien's notes he was kind of stuck trying to figure out the Orc Question. He essentially created a race of enemy NPCs to fill out his story but then realized the implications after publication and was stuck trying to find a way/reason for them to be evil on their own
@@cyberninjazero5659 What were the implications?
@@DKNguyen3.1415 'The question of whether they are intrinsically evil is never brought up, and several of Tolkien's unpublished works suggest that this was due to his own misgivings with the concept of a wholly evil race. Melkor had no power to create other beings himself, but the fact that elves could be corrupted would also imply Eru had either made the souls of some elves either inherently evil or easily corrupted to become evil. Unlike Melkor, Sauron, and Balrogs who were spiritual beings that made an active choice to be evil, Orcs are universally portrayed as evil which means they could be evil from birth which was strongly against Tolkien's strong Catholic beliefs in the nature of good and evil. This in turn contradicted his own views on the nature of Eru as a wholly good deity while also opening up some thorny questions of faith for Tolkien himself, and even in his last writings it appears he could not come up with a satisfactory explanation for how they could be universally evil by nature."
@@cyberninjazero5659 Isn't there some line where Eru says that all the introduced flaws are ultimately part of his plan anyways? Seems to me that line pretty much states that Eru expected, and allows everything to happen.
@@DKNguyen3.1415 In the broadest possible sense yes but Tolkien specifically has the view that evil cannot create only corrupt, so Tolkien is left with the question of how Orcs come about. They can't be created by Morgoth and Sauron as he originally decided and he can't have Eru create beings specifically to be evil and even if Orcs are corrupted from other beings that only solves the first generation, you'd still have questions like "is a baby orc evil and why?" Remember these aren't the dumb brutes of later media Tolkien's orcs were cunning, industrious and clever so fully sapient and not like Goblins in fantasy for example who are always dumb savages. So Tolkien was stuck, he workshopped several different origins but couldn't stick to one.
The Orc Question is Tolkien's paradox
I never thought I would see the day, when BestGuyEver copies my video.
Jk of course. Always been a fan of your work and I mostly agree with ya here.
I LOVE ELVVESSS
I wonder how bestguy's opinion of the demons will be after the el dorado arc
I had my phase after toddlerhood where I wanted deeper nuance and a gray area to my villains in fiction, and of course I still do, depending on the story and context. But I've seriously gotten sick of the tropes present in such genres. I've really, really enjoyed stories where there was an unequivocal evil to be vanquished without question or hesitation, that requires people to work together to overcome the threat. This is why I loved Attack on Titan so much when it first came out, and why my interest in the series took a nose dive after the basement reveal.
It wasn't a bad story, and obviously it's correct in the message it delivered, but I guess I just wanted the realest power fantasy of them all: humanity uniting together in unparalleled support for one another in order to conquer a greater threat.
Another banger
As a manga reader your suspicions may or may not be correct
Very cool BGE
What happened to you, where have you been?
The demon thing is probably my least favorite part of Frieren. They are written to be only that which we consider evil, and to serve the function of only ever opposing the wellbeing of humanity. This means that they are written as entities whose concept is formed in relation to humanity with no sense of its own, independent existence.
Even if Tolkien had a story that made the sides of good and evil blatantly clear, he also had a clear sense of who the bad guys were and what motivated them, and found a way to make that evil reflected in both the protagonists and humanity at large. And even in that context, Tolkien takes time to question how cut and dry the conflict is, take this passage:
"He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace -- all in a flash of thought which was quickly driven from his mind."
By comparison, Frieren seems to be searching for a villainous force that can exist in the story without conveying any sort of meaning at all. And if the series is just waiting a while to do that, then it has spent an awfully long time not developing a very significant aspect of the story, and would probably be better off finding an antagonistic force that doesn't carry this level of personification or focus.
Why would Frieren need an overarching villainous force tho? Most of the overconfident and power hungry demons were part of the demon king’s army and were almost wiped out. Aura and her executioners are cowardly demons who fled from the war, hid until the death of Himmel, to come out. Qual is nothing like her. Do not forget that demons are extremely individualistic too. Every powerful demon has a different mindset and set of priorities. You would be surprised by how interesting they can be. But they can’t be introduced too early in the story because they are way too powerful in an incomprehensible way(not raw mana or strength). They are only alive because of their incomprehensible strength. And you would realise that Demons are not even the worst part the more North you go.
@@neerajcherukuri4052 I am saying that if you want to make characters who just default to evil you need to find a reason for their goals to be opposed to those of humanity, or you probably shouldn't give them characterization or focus. Like why aren't there demons who have just decided that while they don't have human emotions, they also understand that humans are generally dangerous, so they just go about the countryside slaughtering animals that can't reasonably fight back, and looking for random bits of magic like Frieren? There are plenty of examples of high functioning psychopaths in the real world, you need more than just "they don't understand human emotions" to make someone evil. The justification of "they're just evil" doesn't fly by any standard, not just the "modernist" (should probably be called the "post-modernist" or just "modern") standard.
@@jpickens189 it's not just that demons don't understand human emotions. They don't feel some of them too. I feel like I would go into spoilers if I went further. All I will say is this- Demon king started war against humanity because he wants to find a way to coexist with humanity. And also, demons aren't evil. Would you call a tiger evil for killing a goat? It's just their nature. How can you call them evil when they can't even comprehend what malice is? Demons are defined by Flamme as monsters with human speech. You've not seen enough demons in the anime to decide the intricacies of how all demons act.
@@neerajcherukuri4052 I have spoiled myself on everything, don't worry. Psychopaths also don't feel human emotions, but they definitely can understand how to coexist peacefully just based on the fact that it fulfills their interests. What is missing here is a broader motivation to engage in the conflict in the first place, esp. if it has been established that humans are actually dangerous. In the tiger example, tigers eat goats because goats don't generally fight back, and they are the food that is most readily available. It is not just their nature, it is a reasonable decision based off their needs and capabilities at a particular time. The king might have done so out of curiosity, but why does everyone else do so? It just feels very artificially constructed around making them an unambiguous antagonistic force, rather than just thinking of how they work openly and writing whatever follows logically from that.
@@jpickens189 humans used to be way weaker when the war started. Flamme legalised magic and humanity slowly grew stronger. I feel like it's just preferences at this point. I get what you say, but there are a hundred fantasy novels and anime that do that. It felt refreshing for me when they subverted that trope. And I love the way demons are written. Because that's the only way characters like Macht and Solitar can exist. I particularly didn't care about demons when I first read the manga, but by the time of Macht's arc, I was enjoying every word and thought of his.
And about the tiger and goat example. That's literally how frieren kills demons. She appears weaker than them and kills them easily. This simple trick made her the person to kill the most demons in history. Demons generally don't fight people with more mana than them. If anything, this proves that an average demon is closer to an animal than human.
I totally agree that presenting a simple, unambiguously evil villain can free up the story to focus on and flesh out the protagonists and other characters instead. Now if you could please explain what's supposed to be compelling about these cardboard characters or the themes surrounding them and their arcs that would be great
Haha I get that. This is why I called it slice of life-esque. It pretty much has to be enjoyed for the vibes, the plot is clearly a secondary concern.
@@BestGuyEver It definitely feels like everyone hyping this show up misleads about its strengths, praising its characterization and themes.
You could pluck out just about any of the arcs/sidequests that have taken place in the show and it wouldn't change anything for the characters. The way the story justifies these detours thematically is usually by having the party meet someone who mourns or reminisces about a dead loved one, paralleling Frieren's own regrets. But I just wish the story could explore the value of human connection by, y'know, having LIVING characters affecting one another, gathering insights from each other's unique perspectives, shifting their values and growing as a result. Early on in the show, Frieren seemed to struggle to grasp human values; she'd constantly annoy others by talking about long timespans like they're nothing, for example. But when her new adventure starts in earnest, it suddenly seems she has nothing to learn.
I honestly have enough grievances about this show to fill a terabyte hard drive, but I'll end it there for the sake of brevity.
I must admit there is something occasionally endearing about this band of autistic goofballs bouncing off one another, and it makes for some fun memes and fan works. The show can be enjoyable if one's expectations are properly tempered. I will never stop seething about this show being #1 on MAL, though.
@@BoredyTF2 If you're willing and don't put much work into this, what are like the top 10 must watch, stand-out anime one "should" watch. Ones which you would say stand out by being atleast like a 9/10 in every aspect. I've seen the super popular stuff like NGE, Gits, gurren lagann and so on. Haven't yet touched utena or gundam for example.
thank god they freed him