How much power difference is there between an Alpine and a restomod Tiger?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- Today I dyno test a Sunbeam Alpine, and stock Sunbeam Tiger and a Sunbeam Tiger upgraded with a 347ci V8 back to back to find out how much power they make.
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This Week With Cars - Episode 00141
#SunbeamAlpine #SunbeamTiger #Dyno - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
That stock 260 V8 in the Tiger seems somewhat low on HP, doesn't Steve? If I remember correctly, the 260 was rated at 164 HP. If you assume 15% loss in the drivetrain, that comes to 25 hp, so it should have somewhere in the range of 130 - 140 hp at the rear wheels. Even if you assume 25% loss in the drivetrain, it should have had about 120 hp at the rear wheels. That engine sounds like it may be sick, maybe as you said part of it being ignition........but it's still a cool car. All three are! Thanks for sharing.
Yeah that is atrocious.
Tigers had around 136bhp nett when new.. and that was still measured in favourable engine on stand with no auxiliaries.....but a stock Tiger in healthy condition should put down 105-115 at the wheels
There can't be many guys with access to three or four Sunbeams, especially like these ones.👍
Having had an Alpine in my youth and a bug eye Sprite currently, I'm enjoying your videos immensely. I'm always amazed at how successful you are at breathing life back into these great older cars. Please do keep on keeping on!
I have a 1961 MG Midget mk1 which is pretty much the same car
Put a 347 in it and go street racing and make your money back.
No one would see you coming...
Thanks Steve ... as always, fascinating content and detail. As an Aussie it was interesting to hear you say "under the bonnet". 😊
drill some drain holes in the frame where the exhaust cut outs are. You can't keep the water from getting in, but you can give it a way out.
I had heard about the power comparisons of Tiger v Sunbeam....but it's nice to see the numbers of exactly how much. I'll watch anything you care to post.
The hot Tiger looks a thousand percent better with those wheels and tires than it did on the showroom floor when it was new.
I saw a Tiger when I was like 12 that had 289 badging, and the guy said it was the 271 horse, but I guess he must have done it himself, unless it was possible to special order them.
Love all those Alpines. The earlier British models had tailfins. Looked a bit like a mini Ford Thunderbird.
My first car was a used 1959 Rapier convertible once owned by a notorious South London private detective. So nice in those days to have a car with a simple engine you could learn to maintain and fix with basic tools.
That Tiger is a pretty sweet, good looks, good sound, like a retro sleeper.
Problemas de recanbios
Great content as always! Amazing how low the HP numbers are on these old sports cars yet they are still super fun! Still that stroked 347 is sweet.
What a great video! Man, it's usually difficult for some posters to get any dyno figures, but you got 3! Nice job and thank you very much!
Thanks again Steve, shared locally on a classic / everything page.. Ian --UK
Love Sunbeams anything you do with them is fine with me.
As always Steve , your enthusiasm shines through . The "hot " Tiger was red hot ! Seeing that one on the lift made me feel much better about my "e"type ! Thankfully it does have a chassis , a derivative of the Hillman Husky chassis l believe . Thanks Steve .
Love these Sumbeams, great video Steve, keep up the good work take care and stay safe.👍.
Great video Steve, love the Tigers.
thanks Steve ... my first car was a "66 black Alpine w/wire wheels just like yours ... that was back when you could buy a great car for $200.00 ... i had many MGBs after that, but the Alpine was always a favorite.
Imagine building one of these cars up...going on the highway and having the body twist because it's structure is rusted out from the inside.
The 260 Ford V8 powered Tiger was all the rage, when I was in high school!
I'd like to see that one perked up somewhat to get it's potential to the ground through the wheels.
Had a 63 stock Alpine. Fun drive. Had a collection of dash plaques collected from Gymcanas and rallying. Sold it to a friend and it was a daily driver till about 1980.
I too am fond of Sunbeam's ... especially the Tiger. Enjoyed the video.
Back in 1969, I had both a Tiger and an Alpine. Ended up selling them. Loved them both. Sunbeam is my favorite British sports car. Both were 1966's..
Always liked Tigers, this test makes me understand why Tigers want nothin' to do with my tube chassis, custom suspension '64 SBC MGB (500hp, aluminum rod, solid roller cammed, 12+ to 1 comp. 8500rpm, 358ci) little beast
Interesting how little BHP the middle car has for a V8…. And you correctly used the Brit terminology for the bonnet, but confused me by calling the boot….the trunk……😂😂😂great informative vid….
Nicely done video. Nice comparison. I had to laugh though.... that Alpine on the dyno. Thought you were rolling coal there for a second when I saw those black clouds....lol.
I will be very interested in the improvements to the stock 260; it was delivered with approx 160 hp if my brief search is accurate. With a fresh engine the Alpine would be a spirited performer but in it's current state it is asking for help.
Nice work!
Love the Tiger. Great to see some running.
Superb comparison of these fine cars .
That car has to be an animal with that stroker ford in it. Awesome.
It really makes me happy to see that the old "parts car" is getting fixed up.
Awesome.
Love the Sunbeams. All of them
Am surprised the horsepower is so low on a standard Tiger, always liked them after seeing Max Smart drive one on "Get Smart" TV series lol
Back in the day I recall hearing about a fellow that broke a lot of dragstrip records around the southeast with a Sunbeam Tiger.
Sweet, Super Tiger! THNX!
Just got myself a series 4 Alpine but it needs lots of work.. looking forward to restoring it.. love these cars.. Hi from the UK.
I am in the middle of a Series V restoration for myself, one of my first cars.
Loved this!
Very interesting 👌 I would be glad to see more. My first car, bought when I was 19, was a '61 Alpine Series II, finished in Lake blue like the Bond car. It was a one previous (lady) owner with about 70,000 miles and full history. It had no heater. Pity, but I let it go eventually to buy my then girlfriend a Mini. I'd like to own another one. Great little cars. Wouldn't mind a bigger engine option though.
The black Alpine looks to be running rich.
Thanks for posting. Enjoy your interesting videos. When will you get to Colin Chapman's content?
Hi Steve, I'm really enjoying your content. In the past I've had booth Alpines and Tigers. I currently have a 64 Alpine converted to Tiger (aka Alger). Mine has a 302 +.30 over plus AC and cruise control. I noticed on your Red Tiger that your running a upgraded alternator. What kind is it? Was it easy to convert to the newer alternator, since 1964-66 Tigers traditionally had Generators? Also have you ever considered a LED dash lighting upgrade?
Really enjoying the shows .Keep up the great work.
Thanks
Mark
This was fantastic! the 260 is pretty limited with a small bore, but any idea of HP increase with the described 4bbl intake / carb?
Thank you again always good 👍.
I want that 347 Tiger coupe. I had a 74 MG midget when I was 18. I didn't know enough to preserve it.
Am not such a Sunbeam fan but great video!!! 👍👍👍
I would love to see you working on that car tearing it down and rebuilding it it would make great content for videos
Beautiful cars.
What are the spec's for the wheels please on the Tiger? Size and offset? They sit perfectly in the arches, great video.
I love this car dude
I did a rear swap and a W58 Subaru transmission on my 62 sunbeam with the 1600 4 banger that I can now go 72 at 3,000revs, its not performance but great on gas and comfortable on the highway..
Would you do a more detailed description of the restomod Tiger to give us a better idea how it handles all that power please.
I’d love to know where you find these gems
I'm not surprised by the rust. My favourite car ever is also a Rootes car - the Hillman Avenger, sold in the States as the '71-'73 Plymouth Cricket. Unfortunately, they rusted very quickly, mostly in the inner and outer sills and front inner and outer wings, but basically everywhere. There was also a high-performance model called the Avenger Tiger, which I think was based on a performance package available for the Cricket.
Car and Driver liked those too.
I wonder if they were Buddy Holly fans?
I've had 2 Alpines in the past. I would love to find a Tiger in my price range.
There was also a fancier version of the car called the Hillman Avenger Alpine
@@pashakdescilly7517 I think the Avenger Alpine was New Zealand-only, although it was the top-spec model.
I think the most notable model is the Avenger Tiger, which was the high-performance (for the time) version.
@@Zeem4 You could be right. When I was a teenager, my father had an Avenger estate, the next-door neighbour had an Avenger Alpine. The posh model was only ever a 4-door car.
1st car I bought, 67 Alpine in red for $100 in 79. Had wiring issue I can’t believe I fixed. Didn’t want to keep at college & couldn’t talk my dad - who was 82nd Airborne WW2 & thought British cars were junk - into letting me park it covered in our long driveway to a garage. So I sold it for $150. 🤣😕 Missed it since then lol.
The 347 (5.7l). It's over 7 times the original BHP. Crazy mad.
Nearly 5 times the power of the 260 with the 347! Sweet!
If you want to go along distances, get a Alpine They're better on gas and did very well. In the 24 hour Lamont race.
I'm surprised the standard V8 delivers so little power, or was that normal for the time?
Brazing and hand fabricated panels... circa 1975 thru 1985.👍👍
Go Steve
That's just what I wanted to know. I always wondered about the mysterious Tiger with a ford engine. I had heard tell...
From James Bond to Maxwel Smart. LoL
Just an icon
I am sure that 347 Tiger is a riot!
i paused and am going to go with 250 rear wheel hp. Damn. I was way off. Stout Windsor you have there
LOL, I said exactly 250 as well. That thing is singing.
I would love to see someone try and shoehorn a Chrysler 273-318 LA series V8 into these just to see what Chrysler was up against in deciding to kill off the Tiger when they took over Rootes group because of the Ford V8 and supposed inability to fit their own V8 to the Alpine/Tiger.
My 1966 BRG Tiger was a pure chick magnet. Just ask my then girlfriend, now wife. On another note, a few years ago I was yearning for another Tiger but when I went looking I was warned to watch out for “fake” Tigers. These apparently were Alpines that had V8’s dropped into them. I gave up on that idea. Looking forward to more Tiger videos.
Research the VIN codes. Then you can know.
I would rather spend for an Alpine, and drop in a crate engine. I couldn't care less if it was a " real" Tiger, when the crate engine " fake" would leave it in the dust.
It costs real money to do complete brake system upgrades,. Switch to an alternator and I would think there would be suspension upgrades to do as well.
Pile on the premium for a Tiger and it could get pretty stratospheric in a hurry.
Do you have a rear end and leaf springs for sale?
Can we see more of the 240z if possible. Thanks.
I'm new to your channel and am trying to figure you out. You seem to be a very down to earth, easy going blue collar guy that happens to be a millionaire. Can someone enlighten me?
Re: the wheels on the restomod Tiger. Doesn't anyone make some suitable wheels that at least resemble the originals ?
The more modern wheels do spoil the look a bit IMO.
The splines on those wheels are also abit shite so would prob need to make all new hubs
Oh my goodness...what a joy. Question...you mentioned the most powerful one as not being particularly good driving in the city. Is that due to the weight of the engine and the fact that the car doesn't have power steering?
If it had power steering that would solve a lot of it. The ackerman got screwed up when they put the steering rack in the tigers to clear the engine so the front tires work against each other when turning.
@@ThisWeekWithCars THANKS. Young people don't know how lucky they have it today where every vehicle has power steering. My first car was a '67 Plymouth (small aircraft carrier)...lots of steel without power steering. My forearms looked great after a year or two though...
Can the drivetrain hold the HP?
Oops,missed it by this much!
That black 67 had the wrong grill if it's a Mark II.
The 347 Tiger is going to be FAST
352 never would've guessed
The Alpine looked to be heavily over fuelling at the top end.
My '67 Alpine had a Chrysler pentagon
More Tigers have been ruined by stuffing oversized engines (Boss 302's, etc) in them. It is not a hot rod but a comfortable cruiser. The wheels and tires are a limiting factor unless you really butcher the car.
Will the Ford motor
From the tiger bolt
Into the alpine ?
The motor yes, the transmission no. The transmission tunnel needs to be changed to put the Ford drivetrain into an Alpine.
What's wrong with that 260? 74 wheel hp??? Peak at 3400 rpm?
I thought there were only alpine and tiger ? The wiring looks like a mess ! Also didn’t the Tiger have 289 cu in V-8 ?
Later ones did. Even the 1964.5 Mustang had the 260 as an option, but did come with the 289 in higher performance versions, though.
Take the Hot Tiger for a ride please
300?
why such low power in the stock 260 V8 Tiger? It doesn't add up from the performance figures of the day, recorded was 0-60 8.6sec and top speed of 120mph, you don't do that with 74hp on tap. The Alpine with the 1725cc should be getting you at least 90hp if it's a clean engine.
I guessed 150 hp on the 260 and 250 hp on the big banger so no trophy for me
225 HP
235hp
We never saw a V8 here in the UK? But the Alpine is more than familiar to me here in Europe! Still a fun car but not as much as a Midget! 🤣🤣
There were RHD versions of the Tiger built for the UK market and there is a very active group of owners in the UK, I do not know if many if any were sold in mainland Europe.
My dad had a alpine but we sure did have tigers
I knew of two with 289's in we had a 1964 series 4Gt with the 1600cc engine at the time and loved it, wish I still had it.
@@GrandadBaz A V8? In Britain... In the 1960's? Ford V8 pilots? American imports? But Roots group? Or any other mainstream manufacturers, apart from Rover and Triumph still trying to export? I was studying automobile engineering at "The Austin" back then! A far cry from what America enjoyed 🤣!
@@JRattheranch Allard also used the Flathead V8 that was in the Pilot.
standard and mild is the most fun. brutal amounts of hp is just a lack of finesse and doesn't make for an enjoyable driver's car. maybe ok if you only intent to drive in straight lines.
Huh? Just control the power with the throttle!
Well, I only missed it by 50%
Torque....??!....always comes first in 4 cycles....
Love those little cars. Too bad they don't make anything like them anymore. Everything is overweight, numb, agreeable. I miss grumpy cantankerous cars that made you work for your fun.
ok I'll bite: 200 horses. That's my answer. ...... Hmmmm I was waaaaay off!
Alpine...you're nuts.... Please.
The alpine1725 was the last engine ever made that regularly destroyed its crank ie big end failure wouldn't be testing that to often
Stunningly beautiful cars if these were produced today with an electric motor I believe they would sell very well 👍
I honestly thought the stock Tiger would have had at least 100 horsepower.
On an engine dyno it would be close to 100hp gross This was on rear wheel dyno that’s net hp which is always lower but true horse power
Sunbeam cars have a reputation of structure problems due to the use of wood parts!
There are no wood parts...
I`d rip that shitty Alpine engine out and drop in batteries to make a cool all-electric model Alpine.