I watched this video not that long ago, just recently was watching N. Evoldi 2018 WS highlights and I didn’t need to see 2 pitches and I knew he was driving he looked just like scherzer and everything in this video clicked. Amazing way to translate into words what we are seeing.
I will help you out here. You are looking at the wrong thing completely. Degrom is one of those extension guys. He is lead leg dominant. In doing that, he looses efficiency with his lower body and relies more on the arm and upper body to throw hard. As we have seen, it taxes his arm wayyyy too much. He is filthy of course, but he can’t be a full season guy effectively with so much stress on the arm. Scherzer on the other hand, effectively uses is lower body. He is back leg dominant. At leg lift he tilts his pelvis and starts driving down the mound leading with his front hip. Then he rotates using his back hip. Degrom basically opens his front side and is less rotational. So if anything it should be extension vs rotational or front leg dominant vs back leg dominant. If degrom was to keep his upper body back some as he starts going down the mound, used more pelvic tilt, was more efficient with his back leg and didn’t reach with his front side, he might have less arm issues. His other issue is at release, his glove side is low/dead. From elbow to elbow he is just above 180 degrees. It needs to be less than 180. He needs to find a way to limit the stress on his arm before it shuts him down again. He is a stud and would love to see him keep dominating. Scherzer will be solid and have no arm issues other than fatigue with his great lower half as well as arm action. I think you are on the right path. I get to learn this stuff from the pros and elite training facilities.
Sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know of a method to get back into an Instagram account?? I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Robert Gerardo thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out atm. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Great break down without the too much analysis that bores everybody. I used to pitch in HS and American Legion and had decent velo but broke my pitching arm then it disappeared. Lol I went into tennis and found some similar principles in serving. I use them. if you watch some great servers like Roddick they use a principle like Scherzer compressing into the ground massively and pushing back up and out with the compressed energy release. Surprisingly I can serve around maybe around 110-115 mph by using assimilated skills from pitching though at my age of 70 I'm pretty much a freak. My kid who pitched minor league says 120 but ?? He hits in 130 mph as D1 college guys have to stand near back fence to return his 1st serve. I can blow it by these players as well when placed good. Lol. I sometimes think if I could teach Chapman to serve for a couple months I bet he'd break 150 mph.😮😮😂
Hello, I have been driving to the plate ever since I started pitching, but after trying to accelerate, I feel much better. Do you think I can convert, or are we stuck in these roles?
The most interesting thing to me is what the torsos of each is doing at the point of release. There is a lot more, or appears to be a lot more happening with deGrom
Does this connect at all to er and ir hips as discussed by tread athletics. Drivers seem like ir hips who ride the pelvis while accelerators seem to not have as much pelvis coil in their leg lift and drive.
Degrom has zero IR abilities - hence why he’s stuck in so much extension and his throw becomes arm dominant - watch his starts before he got hurt again and watch his rehab start that didn’t go well - his right foot is literally stuck out in ER almost 60 degrees right - very telling
You said “Nolan Ryan didn’t move forward until peak of leg lift” was Ryan an accelerator or driver? Does that mean “not moving until peak” applies to both accelerate and drive? Thanks for the videos my son and I have had light bulbs go off from them.
Hello, I obviously don’t know as much as Robby, but I’ll do my best to answer this. Ryan was a driver, his goal was not to move until his leg lift reached its max height. Accelerators move forward slightly while lifting their leg to aid in acceleration, drivers typically sit back to be able to hold more energy in their hips or legs
I know this is an older video but I had a general question that I hope can get answered. Could it be the reason that Scherzer is such a "driver" is because of his windup delivery? I understand that this video is from the stretch but when he is coming out of the windup he uses the "over the head" approach. I wonder if the reason that he is such a driver out of the stretch is because he is accustom to the same motion out of the windup? Just an observation. As far as I know most of the "hardball hurlers" (both now and past) are accelerators. It also seems to me that new school approach is almost exclusively accelerator based, no?
I'd say his windup delivery is the way it is because of being a "driver" - I just go off of what it appears each guy is attempting to do within his throw.
@@robbyrow ahh a kind of chicken or egg scenario, I didn't think about it that way. I myself threw the ball in a driver style because I felt more comfortable (more control, thought above the head was cool, and was taught to drive at a young kid) but I found that I was giving up about 6-7 mph vs the drifting technique. Is that pretty standard? Asking because I plan to coach baseball again this summer and would like to give the best advice possible to the younger generation.
@On The Brink - Im 14 and I was a driver but once I went to pitching training I found out that me switching to being an accelerator gave me a 5-7 mph boost just by going forward while lifting my leg which helps keeping your hands back.
@On The Brink - Also, when you keep your hands back the ball gets to the plate quicker which increases mph. but you also still have to keep your mechanics like hip to shoulder separation which helps A LOT when it comes to increasing velocity.
Both of em throw fireballs. Two slighty different approaches to rotate the hips with the kinetic chain that unloads all the energy straight at the target
Need to see degrom high leg in stretch. He's doing more of slide step here. If he does high like to see comparison or max in slide step I like to call it quick step
This was my exact thought. I don’t think this video is as insightful with that variable. Although there is some differences in pitchers staying taller and some driving off the rubber more I don’t think it’s as dramatic as this video shows
Chris Sale throws more across his body than any pitcher I've ever seen. It's no wonder he's needed TJ. He's likely been injured for a couple years now. Honestly his mechanics are SO bad.
You just debunked the whole ground force theory by proving it's not necessary with the left-hand video example. . What is clear by minute 7:50 is that the throwing arm is at 10 o'clock/90 degrees at foot strike. And that the glove is tucked inward a split second before the foot strike. I think that the ground force theory might be more related to the front foot and not the back based on this video.
@@collinmillerbaseball 5’5 you definitely want go for accelerated because you don’t have have long legs im 15 6’0 I’m a driver because I have the legs to shift my weight forward!
@@henrymarks2237 He's barely lost any velocity or missed any time to injury at 37. Meanwhile DeGrom, who has "perfect" mechanics, is out for the season at 4 years younger and way fewer innings pitched. My mindset at this point is that the human arm was never intended to throw upper 90s, so anyone who can do it consistently for a long period of time without getting injured is probably gonna be a genetic freak no matter what. Hence why there's not much point in learning from guys like Scherzer, Nolan Ryan, etc.
@@JwebGuru right to some point. We were never created or intended to throw that hard regularly. But I think degrom is overcompensating in his mechanics. Hence why he accelerates
The natural timing to block the kinetic energy is insane in some individuals, then Match that with a free arm. Thanks for this analysis Robby.
I watched this video not that long ago, just recently was watching N. Evoldi 2018 WS highlights and I didn’t need to see 2 pitches and I knew he was driving he looked just like scherzer and everything in this video clicked. Amazing way to translate into words what we are seeing.
I will help you out here. You are looking at the wrong thing completely. Degrom is one of those extension guys. He is lead leg dominant. In doing that, he looses efficiency with his lower body and relies more on the arm and upper body to throw hard. As we have seen, it taxes his arm wayyyy too much. He is filthy of course, but he can’t be a full season guy effectively with so much stress on the arm. Scherzer on the other hand, effectively uses is lower body. He is back leg dominant. At leg lift he tilts his pelvis and starts driving down the mound leading with his front hip. Then he rotates using his back hip. Degrom basically opens his front side and is less rotational. So if anything it should be extension vs rotational or front leg dominant vs back leg dominant. If degrom was to keep his upper body back some as he starts going down the mound, used more pelvic tilt, was more efficient with his back leg and didn’t reach with his front side, he might have less arm issues. His other issue is at release, his glove side is low/dead. From elbow to elbow he is just above 180 degrees. It needs to be less than 180. He needs to find a way to limit the stress on his arm before it shuts him down again. He is a stud and would love to see him keep dominating. Scherzer will be solid and have no arm issues other than fatigue with his great lower half as well as arm action. I think you are on the right path. I get to learn this stuff from the pros and elite training facilities.
Two of the best to ever do it! And they’re on the same fucking team!!!!
You are officially my new guy!!! Outstanding insight!!
Ayyy love that! Appreciate it!
Sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know of a method to get back into an Instagram account??
I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Royce Lennox Instablaster :)
@Robert Gerardo thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Robert Gerardo It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thank you so much, you saved my account!
Great break down without the too much analysis that bores everybody. I used to pitch in HS and American Legion and had decent velo but broke my pitching arm then it disappeared. Lol I went into tennis and found some similar principles in serving. I use them. if you watch some great servers like Roddick they use a principle like Scherzer compressing into the ground massively and pushing back up and out with the compressed energy release. Surprisingly I can serve around maybe around 110-115 mph by using assimilated skills from pitching though at my age of 70 I'm pretty much a freak. My kid who pitched minor league says 120 but ?? He hits in 130 mph as D1 college guys have to stand near back fence to return his 1st serve. I can blow it by these players as well when placed good. Lol. I sometimes think if I could teach Chapman to serve for a couple months I bet he'd break 150 mph.😮😮😂
Lincecum is someone who accelerated their body pretty well and produced a lot of power for a small guy
He's 5'11
He also jumped off of the mound and had great flexibility, until he screwed up his hips…
Robbie this is really really good
Great analysis
Hello, I have been driving to the plate ever since I started pitching, but after trying to accelerate, I feel much better. Do you think I can convert, or are we stuck in these roles?
listen to your own feedback!
The most interesting thing to me is what the torsos of each is doing at the point of release. There is a lot more, or appears to be a lot more happening with deGrom
They're on the same team now, so you're going to get a chance to make a lot of analysis.
This is from the stretch. Which is better to keep a runner at first from stealing second?
Yes
Thank you for this, I appreciate the art of pitching a whole lot more
Kinda scary how they on the same team this year 😳
Yeah, it was..
Does this connect at all to er and ir hips as discussed by tread athletics. Drivers seem like ir hips who ride the pelvis while accelerators seem to not have as much pelvis coil in their leg lift and drive.
You’re exactly right
Degrom has zero IR abilities - hence why he’s stuck in so much extension and his throw becomes arm dominant - watch his starts before he got hurt again and watch his rehab start that didn’t go well - his right foot is literally stuck out in ER almost 60 degrees right - very telling
Can you do a breakdown of Zach Plesac’s mechanics please. He’s on the Cleveland Indians. Great Video btw!
Great vid
What is your opinion on where the arm should be at foot plant?
Depends , some guys have it extended further back some guys have it shorter
@@lightlybatteredjustcrispy Should the arm be all of the way up at foot plant or angled inward? A late arm can be tough on the shoulder.
Now both on the same team
You said “Nolan Ryan didn’t move forward until peak of leg lift” was Ryan an accelerator or driver? Does that mean “not moving until peak” applies to both accelerate and drive? Thanks for the videos my son and I have had light bulbs go off from them.
Hello, I obviously don’t know as much as Robby, but I’ll do my best to answer this. Ryan was a driver, his goal was not to move until his leg lift reached its max height. Accelerators move forward slightly while lifting their leg to aid in acceleration, drivers typically sit back to be able to hold more energy in their hips or legs
I know this is an older video but I had a general question that I hope can get answered. Could it be the reason that Scherzer is such a "driver" is because of his windup delivery? I understand that this video is from the stretch but when he is coming out of the windup he uses the "over the head" approach. I wonder if the reason that he is such a driver out of the stretch is because he is accustom to the same motion out of the windup? Just an observation.
As far as I know most of the "hardball hurlers" (both now and past) are accelerators. It also seems to me that new school approach is almost exclusively accelerator based, no?
I'd say his windup delivery is the way it is because of being a "driver" - I just go off of what it appears each guy is attempting to do within his throw.
@@robbyrow ahh a kind of chicken or egg scenario, I didn't think about it that way. I myself threw the ball in a driver style because I felt more comfortable (more control, thought above the head was cool, and was taught to drive at a young kid) but I found that I was giving up about 6-7 mph vs the drifting technique. Is that pretty standard? Asking because I plan to coach baseball again this summer and would like to give the best advice possible to the younger generation.
@On The Brink - Im 14 and I was a driver but once I went to pitching training I found out that me switching to being an accelerator gave me a 5-7 mph boost just by going forward while lifting my leg which helps keeping your hands back.
@On The Brink - Also, when you keep your hands back the ball gets to the plate quicker which increases mph. but you also still have to keep your mechanics like hip to shoulder separation which helps A LOT when it comes to increasing velocity.
Both of em throw fireballs. Two slighty different approaches to rotate the hips with the kinetic chain that unloads all the energy straight at the target
BOTH ON SAME TEAM LFGM
Does one or the other generally make pitchers throw harder?
Need to see degrom high leg in stretch. He's doing more of slide step here. If he does high like to see comparison or max in slide step I like to call it quick step
My favorite player is Max Scherzer
Kind of looks like a slide step with runner on 1st vs the stretch with no runner on... The coach in the back tells the story.
This was my exact thought. I don’t think this video is as insightful with that variable. Although there is some differences in pitchers staying taller and some driving off the rubber more I don’t think it’s as dramatic as this video shows
Absolutely
What’s the app you use to write your arrows onto the screen/video
therobbyrowshow.com/content-creation/
Pls 🙏 do mechanics of Randy Johnson and Chris sale
I have done chris sale before.
Chris Sale throws more across his body than any pitcher I've ever seen. It's no wonder he's needed TJ. He's likely been injured for a couple years now. Honestly his mechanics are SO bad.
witch is better?
DeGrom thrusts forward using his body to get his Ball velocity probably helping his arm overall
Helping Velo hurting his arm cause it's alone and can't stay healthy
You just debunked the whole ground force theory by proving it's not necessary with the left-hand video example. . What is clear by minute 7:50 is that the throwing arm is at 10 o'clock/90 degrees at foot strike. And that the glove is tucked inward a split second before the foot strike. I think that the ground force theory might be more related to the front foot and
not the back based on this video.
So would aroldis Chapman be accelerator
Got him as more of a hybrid.. checkout this article for more details - therobbyrowshow.com/accelerators-drivers/
@Robby Rowland - Is There a better choice between accelerators vs drivers?
I really want to maximize my velocity for my age
I'm 5'5 and I weight about 130, what would you recommend me? Accelerator or driver?
@@collinmillerbaseball 5’5 you definitely want go for accelerated because you don’t have have long legs im 15 6’0 I’m a driver because I have the legs to shift my weight forward!
Degrom is throwing a circle change
Khan academy of pitching
I'm amazed Scherzer hasn't hurt his shoulder. He flies open so early with his top half and has such a delayed arm swing.
He’s just a freak, he must have hyper mobility
@@henrymarks2237 He's barely lost any velocity or missed any time to injury at 37. Meanwhile DeGrom, who has "perfect" mechanics, is out for the season at 4 years younger and way fewer innings pitched. My mindset at this point is that the human arm was never intended to throw upper 90s, so anyone who can do it consistently for a long period of time without getting injured is probably gonna be a genetic freak no matter what. Hence why there's not much point in learning from guys like Scherzer, Nolan Ryan, etc.
@@JwebGuru right to some point. We were never created or intended to throw that hard regularly. But I think degrom is overcompensating in his mechanics. Hence why he accelerates
Slide step vs full leg lift?
No one is better than DeGrom
Sounds like smaller guys should more than likely be accelerators
Yeah that's typically a good starting point for sure.
You can determine it by ISA angles really
These two play for the same team now…
Scherzer is a knee slam. Chapman is a driver(3x)
It seems that all ACE players are drivers.
deGrom has really long legs
His stride looks insanely long
Being 6’4 does that
No hablo ingles
Terrible vid. DeGrom has a runner in base this is his slide step
Omg, this could have been a third as long, get to the point