I have the opinion that if I'm good enough and my friends are good enough, we will climb. If we lose, it's our fault. The answer is to simply be better than your opponent. Too many people believe they are better than they actually are, I go up and down from around 2600-2800, that's my fault. All I can do is improve.
I wish there was more players like you Even if your teammate made a mistake you can cover it with your skill And with this mindset you can improve faster since you're not blaming your team for your own incompetence
Nahh Fam agreed, i most people blame solo queue, but everyone else does it, are they just that much luckier? Or could it possibly be them? No.... definitely not
Nahh Fam True, I got into 1400 SR from placement matches and I haven't even played that much and I'm already 1800 SR. I mean, it's not impressive, but it proves that ELO hell doesn't exist at bronze-silver. I think that the reason I got that rank was because I as the last time I played comp before getting sick of it was at season 3. And I was dropping like crazy. I was at rank ~1750. What solidifies what I've said is that I main Zarya, Lucio and Zenyatta. If this is not debunking ELO hell, I do not know what does.
good video but you should've made the quickplay 'mmr' like 30,000 so its always obviously different, or write '2732h' or something to indicate it's clearly a different type of number
does that mean that every game changes your "hidden" mmr even quicker-play, 3x3 elimination, brawls, mystery hero, without limits mode etc? dang. if it's true then negative performance in any of these WILL backfire on your comp ranking (sooner or later), making it harder to hold!
most likely only quick play really sucks for me because I've logged a lot of good hours in 3v3 and just messed around in quick play ridiculous in my opinion
So, I finished season 1 with like ~68 and I just stoped playing after season 1, because, as we all know season 1 wasn't perfect, and I kinda felt I was getting bored... Before season 4 started I decided to come back to Overwatch. I played a few Quick Play games, just to get back to the game and after that I started playing competitive. I was doing horrible in placement matches, because I didn't play Overwatch for a while. I finished placement matches with only 3 wins and 7 loses, and the game gave me 2700 SR. So the game probably gave me more SR because I was playing much better in season 1. Great video, thanks! :)
Wow that was quick! Excellent youtuber :) I can see how this can be confusing for people but it does make sense. Basically its along the lines of what I was thinking and if every player knew this info it would stop a lot of people from dropping dramatically. Few questions some of you might know the answer too, if we lose 2 games in a row, manage to keep our cool and stop playing ranked, can we go back to quick play, win a couple of times to stop the loss streak and then jump back into ranked? Or does a really bad negative tilt shift back towards our real SR after some time? I feel like I should be rewarded for staying level headed. Thanks for the info!!
How do you get out of a mmr hole once you get in it though? I think that's the question that most people want to know. It seems that you can get in a losing streak like you said. The initial part of that loss streak is probably on you for not playing well. But the rest of it is because you tilted and is really no longer a reflection of your actual skill. The question is: Is there a similar thing with win streaks? I mean, it's not like you can go on a win streak and do so well and be in such a good mood that you do even better than your skill. So it seems that it's easy to get in a MMR hole but it's much harder to get out of it. Am I correct?
0:45 "Everybody's goal should be to get into grandmaster." m8. this season I tried to get into gold and even though it went nicely in the beginning I utterly failed.
Finally i understand my S2 gold placement down to bronze and why i get 25SR for a win and -40 for a loss. Stupid 14 game loss streak that I haven't managed to offset with one equivalent with wins, which is subsequently why a climb out of bronze with 60% win rate since, seems nigh on impossible. Good video, thank you.
Just speculating, but the slower movement of SR relative to MMR suggests that it's calculated using a "moving average" of current and prior MMR. If true that would probably be intended to smooth out short term volatility rather than "make people feel better."
Despite everything, Overwatch is still just a video game and games are supposed to be fun, not make you feel hopelessly frustrated. I was almost placed in gold, had bad luck and played with trolls, leavers, etc. terrible losing streak, now I'm bronze. This system only makes me feel like I'm forever stuck in bronze and I don't even feel like trying anymore. When I win a game I gain so little and when I lose all my hard earned SR goes to shit. This system is not fun, not encouraging and makes players frustrated.
And I thought that maybe I could do better next season but no, my shit mmr will still haunt me forever so I guess i'll have to fucking buy another account or something which fucking sucks.
:) Not any more. Blizzard has found a "cure" in order to keep you down, cos it needs people down in order for others to be higher by staying atop of those who are down. Once you are playing with friends you have to suddenly face way higher ones. At course, if that would be made gradually, just as you are lifting weights at the gym, it will be an ideal way to be climbing up.
Great video, but you claim that MMR fluctuates a lot more than SR. I think it's completely the opposite. In the formula to calculate MMR there usually is something called an uncertainty factor. When you first start playing a game the uncertainty will be very big, so every win and loss will a have a huge impact on your MMR. After you've played a lot of games the system will get more confident in the MMR number it places you at, so your wins will make your MMR improve less than before but your losses will also have less of an impact. So after a lot of games this will be a very static number. Now, a while ago in Heroes of the Storm, Blizzard actually explained why they don't just show you your real MMR, but hide everything behind a tier system. They want the system to feel rewarding and that players can improve their rating in a short time. The tier system in HotS is coupled to your MMR but only loosely. They're scared of players being frustrated because the more games they play the more difficult it will get to actually improve their MMR a lot. To alleviate this even further they recently made it so the uncertainty factor gets a reset every season in HotS. HotS is a different game of course but I think it makes sense that the same reasoning would stand behind the Overwatch SR system.
Ok so I've had a very confusing experience with this system so I've been playing comp sense season 2 and have always been a plat player but this season I placed with my friend who already placed as a silver we went 8-1-1 so I was looking forward to high plat and was thinking about how I could hit diamond this season but it actually put me as I 1723 silver can anyone explain how that happened more clearly
When I finished placements, I was seeded in 2300SR. I was somewhat new to the game so I dropped to 2050 (and was sitting around there). But, lately I've been tryharding and I've been on ridiculous winstreaks (I now have 40+ games on lucio with a 70% win percentage) but I don't seem to gain that much (Discovered that support/tank maining quite literally wins you games). From my experience : If the team is generally less skilled than me I usually receive between 17-20 for a win, and lose 32-37. If my team are quite skilled, I usually get 20-22 for a win, and lose 29-36~. I've noticed that on the 3rd win I start receiving more, usually as follows (20-22-27-30+). If I get on a losing streak, on the second game I usually lose 5 more, and the following loss is usually 10 more (32-37-47+). It makes it so damn hard to climb, even though I'm 2330~ (my top score) and it doesn't seem all that difficult honestly. But for every 2 wins, I make up 1 loss, so it is rough. One question that I think pertinent is, "Does your quickplay MMR influence your competitive play MMR?". I frequently let my girlfriend play quick play on my account and she is (in the kindest way) not very good at the game at all and loses a very large portion of the games she plays (she enjoys playing junkrat every game though). Would that explain why I receive so little for a win and am greatly punished for losing?
I think it shouldn't mix up QP and comp MMRs. If you listen to his explanation he says that if the MMR is crashing and SR is still high, this will happen.. 5:20
That explains a lot, thanks. OW is my first fps (old gamer but never into fps), and when I had my placement matches I won 7 and got placed in frigging Bronze o.O. That made no sense back then. Now I'm in gold and trying to work my way up, though I don't believe I'll ever reach the high tiers tbh.
My main is bastion . Season 5 , 130 hours . 61% winrate . 27% weapon accuracy (barriers don't count as hits now?) . Just under 800 games played . Placed 5 wins 5 losses at 2048 . Season high 3598 . My gain to loss ratio is 17 a win 30 a loss . And believe it or not , I'm top fragging with just about every good except healing . This whole MMR system really throws me around . QuickPlay is just a game mode to practice heroes in a competitive way without getting your SR fucked ... Right ? Honestly , I'm so lost with this game it makes me nervous on what hell I'll be placed for season 6 ...
You got it right but only partially. There are other coefficients which play massive role, but nobody seems to even consider them, because "competitive" players have tunnel vision on the idea that SR = their skill. The main purpose of ranking system is a) sell more copies of the game by keeping big player base and the game popular b) keep people playing so they spend money on microtransactions. If you look at it that way you might come to very interesting conclusions (hint: time and frequency)
Ok, so this season in placements i lost 8/10 games, and got placed at 3850 after ending season 3 at 4200, which makes sense since i lost so many games. My stats themselves look really good, based on overbuff, but this season ive got about a 40% win percentage losing almost 2 games for every win I get (or so it feels like), but somehow at the end of the day I still go positive. I havent gone on any win or losing streaks really, just going W, L, W, L, L, W, etc. for the most part. The weird thing is that I gain more than double what Ive been losing, winning about 50 SR and when I lose it only deducts about 20 each time, Im just curious if you could clarify, do you think is it because I lost so many placements and its trying to get back where I was? Or could it be because my stats are currently above average that is fluffing my SR so much? Or is it a glitch?
Damn. Looks like I am not the only one here who felt a bit confused. Rewatched the video, now I understand more. The whole system again, simplified: New player - Starting MMR QP, loss, *before first placements* - MMR- QP, win, *before first placements* - MMR+ QP, loss, win, after placements - MMR doesn't change Placements, new player - starting SR, MMR as a seed Placements, rated in a previous season - SR as a seed Placements, win - SR+ Placements, win, played well - SR++ Resulting SR increases a bit to make you feel you are important Ranked match, win - SR++, MMR+++ Ranked match, loss - SR--, MMR--- (bloody hell, TH-cam) Ranked match, win streak - SR+++, MMR++++ Ranked match, loss streak - SR---, MMR---- SR gravitates towards MMR Ranked match, better than others, win - SR+, MMR++ Ranked match, better than others, loss - SR---, MMR---- Ranked match, worse than others, win - SR+++, MMR++++ Ranked match, worse than others, loss - SR-, MMR-- Feels like I forgot something, ah well.
So once you're at the point where you're going 50/50 It is irrelevant what your personal performance and stats are in your gameplay in that 50/50 mark? What actually makes your hidden mmr rise? Is it just win/loss or is it personal performance?
Synthinex After placements it is purely based on win/loss, with weighting based on your mmr relative to the average of a match. The theory is that a player that plays a lot of matches and performs above his mmr will tip some matches in his team's favor with his own performance, and so his mmr will rise.
It's based on your performance on the heroes you played compared to the average performance region-wide on those same heroes. It also doesn't compare straight values, like raw damage done, and it doesn't factor in medals. Source was a forum post from a Blizz employee. Not sure what metrics they're actually comparing you by since they didn't really go into that, but it seems pretty accurate
I've been steadily climbing with a 50/50 W/L rate, all the way up to Master on the Xbox, as a Mercy main. If this video is true, I don't know how the hell my MMR got so high. Are you sure individual performance isn't rewarded during regular season matches? Because there have been games where I played my heart out and lost, and I lose only 15SR, then I win and gain 35SR (was in high Diamond at the time). But this pattern doesn't hold when I play anyone besides Mercy, I'll win or lose about 25 if I play Lúcio, for example. How can it be the system doesn't reward individual performance if my SR gain/loss is so dependent on the character I play?
my friends all said that I got carried into platinum in my placement matches. If I really suck as much as they say I do, then how did I get ranked platinum when individual skill matters in comp placement matches not just winning the game.
Justin Wagner because you played against platinums probably if your friends are platinum. And probably won a lot of them. So if you do 50/50 against platinums, the game will put you in platinum too. Same happened for me when I started playing this mid season 2. Then I fell down from almost 2900 to 2300 and got placed 2100 this season. Fortunately I learned the game and climbed up to 3200. So yeah you most likely got carried
Blizzard has been using this method since basically SCII, possibly even WC3. They have confirmed before that there are hidden MRR value. In fact, most games that involve multiplayer have this system because it effectively brackets different skill groups and prevents situations that you may have experienced on community TF2 servers, where all the best players 'mysteriously' end up all on the same team against total noobs.
lmao, to be honest same happened to me, i was placed in silver (i had bad placement matches anyway ) and now I'm in platinum about to be diamond... system is rigged!!!
700sr? If ii drop more than 50sr ii just stop playing. The worst mistake you can make is to feed a losing streak. I've seen TH-cam videos where people play bronze-diamond videos. It's possible to get out of there. But people are usually there because of their game sense. I've seen low levels scatter around like roaches in maps
Ok so I did placements season 3 on a new account and was consistently getting 3 gold medals a game playing against diamonds and went 6-3-1. Placed VERY low platinum. How did that happen?
Since the game can't estimate your SR from a previous season, it uses your MMR from your quickplay games, I'm guessing that your MMR was around mid to high gold before placements, and your MMR might be high platinum right now but if you go 50/50 from now on you might just level off at mid platinum and find yourself stuck at that SR. Seeming that it's been a month, could you fill me in on what actually happened as you played more ranked matches?
ok question: i only once played ranked plancement matches in s2-s3 or somehting and ranked gold didnt play anymore, now im playing with my girlfriend (witch is a total noob) in quickplay and i wanna start playing ranked, does the days of loosing with her in quickplay come in play or if u once ranked in ranked games it dosnt mather anymore what u do in free play ?
As referenced in the video: it looks at your previous seasons OR the Quickplay MMR if you haven't done any seasons yet (aka new player). I can understand your confusion, since he talks about it like only the previous season matters and you're like "but what if I didn't participate last season but I did earlier than that" right? I would guess that it would still look at your season MMR over your quickplay, since you were probably trying to perform better in ranked matches. Quickplay is meant to have its own system that doesn't affect the Comp system so you can feel free to play just for fun, so I wouldn't imagine they would use that rating just because you didn't participate in every consecutive season. They just use the QP MMR to start with since they don't have anything else to go off of. Hope that helped :) Thought your comment deserved a reply.
Just after my placement matches I made 8 wins and the 7th and 8th made eatch +100 points. So I think that the maximum streak for an accout is about 7 wins. Or maybe the streak increase depends of the lvl between the teams.
I hate this system. A good example of why I dislike this system is like you said in the video: someone is playing 50/50 and losing sr to match their hidden mmr. This seems stupid to me, if you play 50/50 then your sr is actually more correct than your mmr (or you are in the zone where you go 50/50 so whats the problem). The system should try to find a place where every player go 50/50 and I think there are much easier systems to do this. PS. love the channel and sorry for my bad english.
its dumb also because i quickplay different heroes just for fun or to do stupid things, most qp games dont even have healers. quickplay rank doesnt really mean shit and shouldnt be used, some people take it really seriously while others dont care at all
+john smith It's only ever used once, because they have to use something. No matter how bad quickplay is for determining your skill it is ALWAYS better than nothing. You will never, ever suffer from this again because now you've played in a competitive season. This is a complete non-issue.
+DHREAVER well the problem is, when I spent the first few months playing random heroes and not caring about winning, when I did placements it ranked me in a rank where I'm at a higher skill level than my teammates, and now I can't be bothered with grinding up 500 points just to play games that are actually competitive
+john smith if you tried in your placements you won't be far from your true rank. If you're as good as you think you are you'll gain 500 Sr. in around 4 hours. That's 4 hours of whooping ass. If you think that's a grind... Ask yourself why you're playing. It's easily rectified, fun to rectify, you aren't the only one in that boat and it only needs to be dealt with once. Find some bigger problems, you won't have to look far, Overwatch has plenty.
I doesn't really understand this, after placement I get 2827SR then I win almost every game I play, in fact I loose 4 games(2 of them is getting disconected and can't rejoin) out of 31 games. And now I'm gaining around 110SR each game(I'm curently at 3546SR) I don't understand if I deserve this rank or not? My friends who play with me only get 30-40SR each game.
Patipan Wongkleaw This is because your mmr (remember, mmr is a hidden value) is high, much higher than your placement sr would have you believe. Because of this, your sr was affected more by your wins than your losses, coupled with the fact that you had a good win streak(which increases your mmr gain further). Eventually you will reach a point where you lose half of your games. At this point your sr will settle in to match your mmr.
I am stuck in bronze I've been trying to get out of bronze at first i got placed to 525sr(Bronze) i climbed up to about 1375sr but for some reason, I've been on a long losing streak and I've fallen below 800 I've been practicing in quick play and in the practice range yet I'm not seeing a lot of improvement if you can give me any tips i would appreciate it
Master player. Did placements to go from bronze to master for a stream. Got placed platinum instead i had to go back to bronze from there i went from bronze to 2989 season ended. ill continue next season from platinum. What happened. I gained just 10-20 sr every game from silver and above. it didn't matter if it was the best game i've done in my life. But i was losing sometimes and in those cases i was loosing about 70-90 sr. Explain plz.
Source? Where did you get this info? When doing this sort of "fact" video that's like the most important thing, otherwise it's just your word against theirs and there is no reason for anyone to belive you outside of pure trust, which in my opinion is a little naive, anyways, sources would be appreciated and if not on this video then just feedback if you do anything similar again
You shouldn't say that it is 100% accurate or fact until that information can be corroborated, IMO. That said, I wholly agree with your stated opinion and that is in line with my observation as well. New sub, great videos keep it up.
It gives a basic idea.look at simple case studies. my winrate is 46 %.my placement sr was 2500 and now after like 50 hrs my sr is 2700(higher even with below 50 winrate)
this is pure hypothese cause u are saying that we get placed higher than our actual skill rating, got placed at 1300 sr and im at 2200 now i allways have win and lose 20-35 sr and when i got a lose strak i won 5 sr then i won 20 sr back after 1 win
Hi Skyline. Thanks for a very informative video. However, as you state in the beginning -- there are many myths going around about how the MMR system works. I feel skeptical to your statement that the claims in this video are "100% facts" as you do not name any sources yourself. How did you research this video? What sources did you find? Are they reliable enough to be "100% facts", and not more guesses? I would like to hear your perspective.
Work on your fundamentals and game knowledge, learn to warm up and practice before you go into Comp for the day. In season 1 I placed into platinum (53). I quit during that season to focus playing WoW. After around a month of not playing OW I came back to season 2 and my rating tanked (~2100) but after some practice I got it up (~2300). After that I went through a lot of ups and downs with OW and ended up deciding it was better for me as a player to worry about having fun and getting consistently better. For season 3 I decided to do all 10 matches drunk in one night. My rating went down again to ~1700. I've pulled it up to ~2100 again. I hope that illustrates the ups and downs you can go through in a season as a player. In season 1 and 2 I never did warm ups or practice when I earned my ranks. In season 2 I did every match drunk because of the consistent toxicity of players I encountered. Season 3 so far has been good. It's had the highest variance between my starting SR and my current SR and the attitude of players seems to have been increasing the longer this game is out.
Im pretty sure they got rid of winstreak multipliers last patch, unless your mmr is much higher than your SR (to get smurfs out of diamond very fast eg).
can anyone give an explanation as why the game would penalize people above the average sr of the team and vice versa?in my mind the system sould reward each player on the team the same amount of mmr change, as everyone wins and looses together as a single unit. if ou play 500 games in a 6 stack with a spread of 900 (sr) (and therefore a big mmr spread too) then it doesn't make sense for the game to draw conclusions and reward some people more than others when the only thing it looks at is weather or not it's a win.
Could you do an updated video for S3/S4? Seems they changed a few things. Edit: seems to be a bit of misinformation in this video...top 500 is based entirely on SR after 50 wins, the leaderboard can attest to that. S1 rating didn't affect s2 rating at all. I was 20 higher then my friend in S1 (61-42), we did placements together in s2 and placed within 10sr. As for new players it's clearly not based off QP mmr anymore. On my alt there was never anyone below 3000sr in my games after lvl 10. Placements started off with 11 unranked and 1 bronze and finished with mid diamond games where I was the only unranked. Then it placed me 2741 (and another master did placements on their smurf, same win/loss/draw of 7/2/1, 2731sr placement) and I was masters inside 50 games.
But Skyline... how can you say you're initially placed a few hundred sr higher than you should be placed? Skill rating systems are all relative, if everyone's placed a few hundred sr higher, they won't all drop after time, the average sr is just a few hundred sr higher and everyone will go up and down relative to each other...
Sadly, I came to this conclusion after making a 2nd account. It seems like you can't play for fun, even in quick play, if you care about your MMR and SR. It makes you wonder how you're supposed to actually learn a hero.
I'll quote Skyline to show this is not true "batteryfarmfilms" and "rather dull"; "Your casual mmr is separate from your ranked mmr. They don't effect each other. The only time your casual mmr matters is if you are a brand new player who has never played ranked in any season before. In that case, your initial placement is based partly on your casual mmr."
+TheLaubum So essentially, your QP MMR *only* affects a player if the account hasn't played Competitive in the past? Then, once you finish placements and get ranked, your Quickplay MMR doesn't affect Competitive? Just asking for clarification because I'm trying to get to GM in S4 and I don't want anything to negatively affect my ranked MMR (since I usually mess around in QP or practice heroes that I'm not good with).
i know this is an old video but i believe its the opposite of what you said at around 5mins I think they place you lower than were you meant to be. for the same reason you said. When you win the next few games that is what makes you feel good and want to climb if they place you higher than where you should be your just might start losing games therefore making the player feel worse.
Try to excel in one hero of every class, that way if your team is lacking something you can makeup for it. Try to watch higher level gameplay, even through this doesn't pertain to your game it can help you with your positioning on maps. If you can't aim just don't pick dps, other classes are more forgiving with aim (expect snipers). I think bronze players should group up with others (don't have to be real life friends) I just think it's easier then solo que when you're at that low of a level. Learn who counters who. When you're that low you don't really need a main person but it's good to have a high range of things you can do even if it's not the best you should learn that "hey they have a pharrah, either I or someone should go soldier or Mcree to shot her out of the sky.
i am average with all characters, i could go plat min with soldier. it is super boring though. what do people like me who want to be switch players do?
i'm in platinum. i won a game partied up with a gold and a silver. and i gained literally 0 sr. absolutely. frikin. zero. i won 2 matches and lost 1 and my sr went down. wtf?
Okay, let me think a bit... Does the information here mean I can win a bunch of quick play matches and that will help me gain skill rating points? This whole MMR/SR system looks too complicated for me. I never cared much about how it works though. All I need to know is that you gotta win to get points, and the loss takes these points away, which is a bad thing and should be avoided at all costs.
Winning in QP would only help you, if you´ve never played comp at all. Because the MMR you gained through QP is taken as a starting point for the first set of placement matches you do. Afterwards QP has no further influence on ranked
10/10 placement matches win. always gold dmg and 2 other gold medals... SILVER... why? because 2 seasons ago I was a silver. I didn't play season 4 and now in season 5 I am back at that trash rank. after 2 weeks I was in almost master really near that. is this a decent think?
Really messy discussion -- Force Gaming at the beginning of the current season stated that the system tends to give a player an SR rating lower than what they can attain. Now you are positing the opposite. I think NO ONE knows for sure. Also, you put so many hypotheticals in a long video when all you are saying is this: you gain points if you win, and lose points if you lose in both QP and CP.
I believe what Force said was a one time only thing because Blizzard changed the scaling of SR. Completely separate from the core workings of the system.
So... I'm just below diamond now (I got diamond but lost a game or 2.) I finished last season in gold, and now I assume I'm getting punished for it, considering I just lost 40 sr then 50 sr not in a losing streak, just 2 loses in a row. This is absolute bullshit.
I got 1 win, 8 lose and 1 draw and given an SR of 1178 now it landslides to 758.. then seeing other profile with 0.98 KD with genji on top of his most played hero but 3000+ SR.
W/L/D doesn't matter much in placements in my experience. It's not like it places you based on your percentage of games won alone. I went 3-6-1 and placed 350 SR above where I was last season because I had improved significantly while playing outside of Comp. Pros went 3-7 and still placed in Grandmaster. One of my friends placed in Plat in S2, got rusty after not playing for two months, then jumped straight into his placements in S3. He went 8-2 and dropped to Gold. I think personal performance is probably a fairly significant factor. At the end of the day, the system determined that you were playing competitively with Bronze players, even if you lost a lot. It also determined that the Genji main with a 1 KD was playing competitively with Plats and Diamonds. KD isn't the end-all-be-all, but a 1 KD at Bronze isn't worth as much as a 1 KD at Diamond. A 1 KD Diamond player could go into a Bronze game and wreck face, while a 1 KD Bronze player could go into a Diamond game and get destroyed. Even if you have a higher KD than someone at a higher SR, that doesn't mean that you deserve to be at their SR. Which is probably obvious, but I think it's worth mentioning
Does the system actually put you a bit above what you belong to? Doesn't that just discourage players when they see their ranks drop? Then everyone is like: "ELO hell, I belong to top 500 hundred but dropped to bronze from silver because of noob teammates!!!1!1!! My teammates are holding me back!!!1!!1!"
There is no exactly qp mmr at all, its not work like this. Also qualification dont care if you win or lost your match, its like qp system but its converting your ingame efficiency to modify your season end placement. Overwatch my first fps game (its not actually fps but lets dont lose a point) so when i start playing my aim was so terrible so Iam was able to miss tanks hit boxes ! First month i played a lot and there was only qp, starting from season 2 Iam start playing only comp games and work on my aim and positioning. Now each time Iam press qp button game trying to find for me oponents with similary shity stats , I can see it very clearly because of their ranks in profile and poor gameplay. For example Iam on very rare occasions lose in arcade games because of diference between my current skill and past skill. p.s my comp rank in season 1 after qualification was ~40 and now Iam hit the master rank. The sad part of this is qp not fun for me anymore, i need to play probably more than 500 hours to make my qp stats at least close to real skill and Iam always being matched with bad players so qp games is boring for me.
You are a great resource for information and insight into Overwatch. But the reason you're not as popular as other Overwatch TH-camrs is because they are more interesting to listen to. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh; it's just the truth. They talk with more vigor and show gameplay in the background. It's not that I want to trash on your channel, I just was thinking about how you could be better yet have so few subscribers in comparison. I am thinking of Stylosa in particular here (he has over 10x your subs). I know it sounds gimmicky, but maybe you should try livening up your videos. Just my thoughts, I'll keep watching regardless.
You're cool, man. I watched a lot of Overwatch videos in the past 3 days, and you're the only one who made me not just subscribe, but start scanning uploaded videos for specific videos that matter to me now. But maybe that's because I don't care about the how or the flash, and just care about the info, the actual content. Or maybe you're just cool enough. =)
You have by far the best channel for useful information for competitive overwatch. Keep doing what you're doing and the subscribers will come to you in time, especially with competitive overwatch gaining more traction.
Well... I'd like to say this is bs. 3rd season I started on 1800, winning 7 and playing well in my placemnts, finished 2nd season on 2200ish. This season I got 1900, winning 4 but still playing well, finishing last season around 2100. Explain that? I don't believe personal performance is included, I always seem to end up with gold elims/obj time, etc, even playing as rein (I get matched with the morons, and can't get higher solo q'ing) - from what I've seen people who play as offense, and get more kills consistently seem to be the ones who are given higher ranks. Placements make 0 sense, and seems to be more bias towards people who play more attacking characters.
This video explains that in your situation it's very likely your true SR is lower than the SR displayed to you, and you're also being matched in games based on that lower true SR, which means that to stay at 2600 SR, you will need to win more than 50% of your games.
Yeah that's the same on my 2nd account. I got placed 2480, while in quick play the whole lobby is full of top 500 players and masters / grand masters. On my main account I'm hovering around masters.
rather dull I wonder if they will make season 4 have a restart for comp mmr, I don't like having teammates that think no tank 4 "offense" is actually a good to play with. and I'm too broke to afford another account lol
The thing is, your MMR is different than SR; it can go up and down from playing any game-mode, as far as I'm aware. Even if they totally reset your comp SR, your placement games would put you with teammates with similar MMR. If the game thinks your MMR is low, and you play like a Grand Master player in your placement games, you will still get placed in Silver or Gold to match your MMR. An option to reset MMR would be very nice, because MMR can hold you back in niche scenarios.
well, like you said, the game-mode doesn't matter for MMR, in quick play i get masters and grandmasters to go against so it should be the same for comp, however i didnt do the season one placements or any games in quick play before that placement, it was my brother... big mistake i know but neither of us were thinking about it back then, and now no matter how good i am, i get much lower skilled players on comp games, and if i 6 stack then thats a totally different fight. things are just bad for my rank at this point but i will still try and improve myself until i get top 500's in quick play and until i get rid of my spaghetti aim. until then i just hope that they either change the comp ranking system or reset comp mmr and have placements be what they were in season 1, and i also hope that i get lucky with good teams so i can climb this god forsaken ladder in comp rank.
I know it's hard to climb. S1 I got placed 39 and climbed to 54, S2 I got placed 2000 and climbed to 3000, S3 I got placed 2500 and climbed to 3400. I know how difficult it is to win games at low rank, even if you're trying your very hardest. I'd say maybe try to master a hero that has decent self sustain and wins 1v1 duels, such as Roadhog. It's always good to get a good team comp though, like playing Reinhardt when your team really needs one, even though you feel like you could contribute more on 76. That and practicing good positioning, there are a lot of guides on youtube, Lone Hawk actually put out a good positioning guide (shocker, I know.) Skyline has some good videos too. Just learn all you can, and hopefully you'll slowly climb.
I got placed at 700 sr man, lost the same amount of games as my friend who was placed at 2300. After a long ass Time o got back up to like 1700. Why is it you don't get shit sr for winning in bronze
Bullshit, I was rank 54 at the end of season 1 (highest was 56) and then I placed 2300 SR season 2 and I went 4-6 in placements getting multiple golds every game. Also, according to you, it means that it is to one's advantage to always play a dps in placement to gain max MMR rating since supports and main tanks don't get high stats.
Season 1 I got placed at 39, climb to 54, and ended at 52. Season 2 I got placed 2100 and climbed to 3000, but ended season 2 at 2600. Season 3 I got placed 2500, but climbed to 3300, and right now I'm at around 3100. I play pretty much Lucio exclusively, and sometimes I'll play a tank or another healer. I don't know how the MMR / SR algorithm works, but it always seems to place me lower than I'm able to climb. I don't know if that's because I play healer, or my playstyle, or some other factor. It's quite frustrating having to climb constantly though.
Short story, I think Skyline is correct with his assumptions. I just hate that Blizzard refuses to tell you how their MMR works. I don't know if I shouldn't pre-fire corners because it lowers my accuracy, shouldn't effectively zone an area around the objective because it's lowering my objective time (when we have 3 teammates already on the point), etc etc.. It feels like the game punishes my MMR for playing the way I want to play, but maybe it's because my MMR started so low because when I first got the game I wanted to try a lot of heroes / play for fun without winning.
:) The first thing before speaking about MMR and SR, Skyline Dear, you should have explained how the hidden MMR is made. What are the criteria for a 50 MMR of a Genji player and a 50 MMR for a Mercy player!?
Blizzard ranking system of Overwatch is just pure shit. Season 2 and season 3 are the same. The same shit. Blizzard make evrything to make us stay playing. No chain win? No promotion, and after they want you believe In elo hell which not exist. Loosing more point than winning ... never see that One day I 've bad teammate in soloq, and the other day, only good ...may be a myth ...
if you didnt want to confuse viewers with the hidden mmr value, why are you using such a similar number lol you said it yourself and you're using numbers like 2300 to compare to 1700 sr. use 100 or something lmao
300+ hours into Overwatch and am still in bronze. Please ask a bronze player how they play and issues they have and 90% will say: 1) bad team comp 2) no comma 3) terrible positioning and 4) difficult to climb because you do your best and carry the team (3-5 golds) and still lose. THIS IS NOT OK. I DO THIS WELL CONSISTENTLY AND AM STILL IN BRONZE WITH 10 YEAR OLDS. Thanks for reading and upvote so he will do a vid!!!!
Your logic is flawed, people who are good enough to get out of bronze, get out of bronze, there is a reason people make it out of bronze. You beat your foe, not your team. If you haven't won, but you have gold medals doesn't that just prove that having gold medals doesn't mean anything? "Oh my team was bad" I hear you say I'm willing to say that you aren't perfect either and you too make mistakes... a lot of mistakes... there is a reason you aren't out of bronze. Let me ask you this, do you do anything those things you mentioned at the top? If not then. No, you do those things otherwise, you would be out of bronze.
The reason you're getting matched with Koreans is that there are a lot of cheating happening in Asian servers, so a lot of asian players are transfering to different regions to avoid the cheating. But yes, what you say is true, it is hard to communicate with asian players who do not understand english.
| Zodrigon | I've had ONE positive match with a korean team. I was the only english speaker, so I was the odd one out. At one point I said Choo choo and they all started repeating it. Fantastic. CHOO CHOO. But otherwise, living hell.
I have the opinion that if I'm good enough and my friends are good enough, we will climb. If we lose, it's our fault. The answer is to simply be better than your opponent. Too many people believe they are better than they actually are, I go up and down from around 2600-2800, that's my fault. All I can do is improve.
I wish there was more players like you
Even if your teammate made a mistake you can cover it with your skill
And with this mindset you can improve faster since you're not blaming your team for your own incompetence
Nahh Fam agreed, i most people blame solo queue, but everyone else does it, are they just that much luckier? Or could it possibly be them? No.... definitely not
:) And how one can improve his teammates!?
Nahh Fam True, I got into 1400 SR from placement matches and I haven't even played that much and I'm already 1800 SR. I mean, it's not impressive, but it proves that ELO hell doesn't exist at bronze-silver. I think that the reason I got that rank was because I as the last time I played comp before getting sick of it was at season 3. And I was dropping like crazy. I was at rank ~1750. What solidifies what I've said is that I main Zarya, Lucio and Zenyatta. If this is not debunking ELO hell, I do not know what does.
good video but you should've made the quickplay 'mmr' like 30,000 so its always obviously different, or write '2732h' or something to indicate it's clearly a different type of number
does that mean that every game changes your "hidden" mmr even quicker-play, 3x3 elimination, brawls, mystery hero, without limits mode etc? dang. if it's true then negative performance in any of these WILL backfire on your comp ranking (sooner or later), making it harder to hold!
most likely only quick play
really sucks for me because I've logged a lot of good hours in 3v3 and just messed around in quick play
ridiculous in my opinion
So, I finished season 1 with like ~68 and I just stoped playing after season 1, because, as we all know season 1 wasn't perfect, and I kinda felt I was getting bored... Before season 4 started I decided to come back to Overwatch. I played a few Quick Play games, just to get back to the game and after that I started playing competitive. I was doing horrible in placement matches, because I didn't play Overwatch for a while. I finished placement matches with only 3 wins and 7 loses, and the game gave me 2700 SR. So the game probably gave me more SR because I was playing much better in season 1. Great video, thanks! :)
Wow that was quick! Excellent youtuber :) I can see how this can be confusing for people but it does make sense. Basically its along the lines of what I was thinking and if every player knew this info it would stop a lot of people from dropping dramatically.
Few questions some of you might know the answer too, if we lose 2 games in a row, manage to keep our cool and stop playing ranked, can we go back to quick play, win a couple of times to stop the loss streak and then jump back into ranked? Or does a really bad negative tilt shift back towards our real SR after some time? I feel like I should be rewarded for staying level headed.
Thanks for the info!!
How do you get out of a mmr hole once you get in it though? I think that's the question that most people want to know. It seems that you can get in a losing streak like you said. The initial part of that loss streak is probably on you for not playing well. But the rest of it is because you tilted and is really no longer a reflection of your actual skill. The question is: Is there a similar thing with win streaks? I mean, it's not like you can go on a win streak and do so well and be in such a good mood that you do even better than your skill.
So it seems that it's easy to get in a MMR hole but it's much harder to get out of it. Am I correct?
0:45 "Everybody's goal should be to get into grandmaster."
m8. this season I tried to get into gold and even though it went nicely in the beginning I utterly failed.
Finally i understand my S2 gold placement down to bronze and why i get 25SR for a win and -40 for a loss. Stupid 14 game loss streak that I haven't managed to offset with one equivalent with wins, which is subsequently why a climb out of bronze with 60% win rate since, seems nigh on impossible. Good video, thank you.
THANK YOU. Finally someone explained why i go down 10SR when i lose and get like 50SR when i win xD
Just speculating, but the slower movement of SR relative to MMR suggests that it's calculated using a "moving average" of current and prior MMR. If true that would probably be intended to smooth out short term volatility rather than "make people feel better."
Despite everything, Overwatch is still just a video game and games are supposed to be fun, not make you feel hopelessly frustrated. I was almost placed in gold, had bad luck and played with trolls, leavers, etc. terrible losing streak, now I'm bronze. This system only makes me feel like I'm forever stuck in bronze and I don't even feel like trying anymore. When I win a game I gain so little and when I lose all my hard earned SR goes to shit. This system is not fun, not encouraging and makes players frustrated.
And I thought that maybe I could do better next season but no, my shit mmr will still haunt me forever so I guess i'll have to fucking buy another account or something which fucking sucks.
Eins Niko yea I agree
:) Not any more. Blizzard has found a "cure" in order to keep you down, cos it needs people down in order for others to be higher by staying atop of those who are down. Once you are playing with friends you have to suddenly face way higher ones. At course, if that would be made gradually, just as you are lifting weights at the gym, it will be an ideal way to be climbing up.
The chances of trollers leaver etc in ur team is the same as in the enemy team. Sry but ur probably not good enough for silver or gold
Great video, but you claim that MMR fluctuates a lot more than SR. I think it's completely the opposite. In the formula to calculate MMR there usually is something called an uncertainty factor. When you first start playing a game the uncertainty will be very big, so every win and loss will a have a huge impact on your MMR. After you've played a lot of games the system will get more confident in the MMR number it places you at, so your wins will make your MMR improve less than before but your losses will also have less of an impact. So after a lot of games this will be a very static number.
Now, a while ago in Heroes of the Storm, Blizzard actually explained why they don't just show you your real MMR, but hide everything behind a tier system. They want the system to feel rewarding and that players can improve their rating in a short time. The tier system in HotS is coupled to your MMR but only loosely. They're scared of players being frustrated because the more games they play the more difficult it will get to actually improve their MMR a lot. To alleviate this even further they recently made it so the uncertainty factor gets a reset every season in HotS.
HotS is a different game of course but I think it makes sense that the same reasoning would stand behind the Overwatch SR system.
Which is why over should use GLICKO 2 instead of ELO. ELO is heaven for boosters and derankers. This also means luckers win
Ok so I've had a very confusing experience with this system so I've been playing comp sense season 2 and have always been a plat player but this season I placed with my friend who already placed as a silver we went 8-1-1 so I was looking forward to high plat and was thinking about how I could hit diamond this season but it actually put me as I 1723 silver can anyone explain how that happened more clearly
When I finished placements, I was seeded in 2300SR. I was somewhat new to the game so I dropped to 2050 (and was sitting around there). But, lately I've been tryharding and I've been on ridiculous winstreaks (I now have 40+ games on lucio with a 70% win percentage) but I don't seem to gain that much (Discovered that support/tank maining quite literally wins you games).
From my experience : If the team is generally less skilled than me I usually receive between 17-20 for a win, and lose 32-37. If my team are quite skilled, I usually get 20-22 for a win, and lose 29-36~. I've noticed that on the 3rd win I start receiving more, usually as follows (20-22-27-30+). If I get on a losing streak, on the second game I usually lose 5 more, and the following loss is usually 10 more (32-37-47+). It makes it so damn hard to climb, even though I'm 2330~ (my top score) and it doesn't seem all that difficult honestly. But for every 2 wins, I make up 1 loss, so it is rough.
One question that I think pertinent is, "Does your quickplay MMR influence your competitive play MMR?". I frequently let my girlfriend play quick play on my account and she is (in the kindest way) not very good at the game at all and loses a very large portion of the games she plays (she enjoys playing junkrat every game though). Would that explain why I receive so little for a win and am greatly punished for losing?
I think it shouldn't mix up QP and comp MMRs. If you listen to his explanation he says that if the MMR is crashing and SR is still high, this will happen.. 5:20
That explains a lot, thanks. OW is my first fps (old gamer but never into fps), and when I had my placement matches I won 7 and got placed in frigging Bronze o.O. That made no sense back then. Now I'm in gold and trying to work my way up, though I don't believe I'll ever reach the high tiers tbh.
Any idea if the map played or the match length affects the amount of MMR/SR gained/lost?
My main is bastion . Season 5 , 130 hours . 61% winrate . 27% weapon accuracy (barriers don't count as hits now?) . Just under 800 games played . Placed 5 wins 5 losses at 2048 . Season high 3598 . My gain to loss ratio is 17 a win 30 a loss . And believe it or not , I'm top fragging with just about every good except healing . This whole MMR system really throws me around . QuickPlay is just a game mode to practice heroes in a competitive way without getting your SR fucked ... Right ? Honestly , I'm so lost with this game it makes me nervous on what hell I'll be placed for season 6 ...
You got it right but only partially. There are other coefficients which play massive role, but nobody seems to even consider them, because "competitive" players have tunnel vision on the idea that SR = their skill. The main purpose of ranking system is a) sell more copies of the game by keeping big player base and the game popular b) keep people playing so they spend money on microtransactions. If you look at it that way you might come to very interesting conclusions (hint: time and frequency)
Ok, so this season in placements i lost 8/10 games, and got placed at 3850 after ending season 3 at 4200, which makes sense since i lost so many games. My stats themselves look really good, based on overbuff, but this season ive got about a 40% win percentage losing almost 2 games for every win I get (or so it feels like), but somehow at the end of the day I still go positive. I havent gone on any win or losing streaks really, just going W, L, W, L, L, W, etc. for the most part. The weird thing is that I gain more than double what Ive been losing, winning about 50 SR and when I lose it only deducts about 20 each time, Im just curious if you could clarify, do you think is it because I lost so many placements and its trying to get back where I was? Or could it be because my stats are currently above average that is fluffing my SR so much? Or is it a glitch?
Damn. Looks like I am not the only one here who felt a bit confused.
Rewatched the video, now I understand more.
The whole system again, simplified:
New player - Starting MMR
QP, loss, *before first placements* - MMR-
QP, win, *before first placements* - MMR+
QP, loss, win, after placements - MMR doesn't change
Placements, new player - starting SR, MMR as a seed
Placements, rated in a previous season - SR as a seed
Placements, win - SR+
Placements, win, played well - SR++
Resulting SR increases a bit to make you feel you are important
Ranked match, win - SR++, MMR+++
Ranked match, loss - SR--, MMR--- (bloody hell, TH-cam)
Ranked match, win streak - SR+++, MMR++++
Ranked match, loss streak - SR---, MMR----
SR gravitates towards MMR
Ranked match, better than others, win - SR+, MMR++
Ranked match, better than others, loss - SR---, MMR----
Ranked match, worse than others, win - SR+++, MMR++++
Ranked match, worse than others, loss - SR-, MMR--
Feels like I forgot something, ah well.
Let's not forget that most of the information provided here is not confirmed by Blizzard, this is merely a logical speculation.
Not very simplified, ain't it.
So once you're at the point where you're going 50/50 It is irrelevant what your personal performance and stats are in your gameplay in that 50/50 mark? What actually makes your hidden mmr rise? Is it just win/loss or is it personal performance?
Synthinex After placements it is purely based on win/loss, with weighting based on your mmr relative to the average of a match.
The theory is that a player that plays a lot of matches and performs above his mmr will tip some matches in his team's favor with his own performance, and so his mmr will rise.
Synthinex I have a win percentage lower than 50% (139w/123l/22d) and I keep going down to 2700 and back up to 2900 all the time
Synthinex t
What qualifies as playing well in placement? Is it based off damage? Medals? Obj time?
It's based on your performance on the heroes you played compared to the average performance region-wide on those same heroes. It also doesn't compare straight values, like raw damage done, and it doesn't factor in medals. Source was a forum post from a Blizz employee. Not sure what metrics they're actually comparing you by since they didn't really go into that, but it seems pretty accurate
I've been steadily climbing with a 50/50 W/L rate, all the way up to Master on the Xbox, as a Mercy main. If this video is true, I don't know how the hell my MMR got so high.
Are you sure individual performance isn't rewarded during regular season matches? Because there have been games where I played my heart out and lost, and I lose only 15SR, then I win and gain 35SR (was in high Diamond at the time). But this pattern doesn't hold when I play anyone besides Mercy, I'll win or lose about 25 if I play Lúcio, for example. How can it be the system doesn't reward individual performance if my SR gain/loss is so dependent on the character I play?
my friends all said that I got carried into platinum in my placement matches. If I really suck as much as they say I do, then how did I get ranked platinum when individual skill matters in comp placement matches not just winning the game.
Justin Wagner because you played against platinums probably if your friends are platinum. And probably won a lot of them. So if you do 50/50 against platinums, the game will put you in platinum too. Same happened for me when I started playing this mid season 2. Then I fell down from almost 2900 to 2300 and got placed 2100 this season. Fortunately I learned the game and climbed up to 3200.
So yeah you most likely got carried
I thought mmr did not look at if you won or lost in qp? Help please
If this mmr number isn't visible then how do you know any of this?
Blizzard has been using this method since basically SCII, possibly even WC3. They have confirmed before that there are hidden MRR value. In fact, most games that involve multiplayer have this system because it effectively brackets different skill groups and prevents situations that you may have experienced on community TF2 servers, where all the best players 'mysteriously' end up all on the same team against total noobs.
Does this apply to QP? As when i play this i get placed in games with Diamonds/Plats when my competitive SR is Gold
So thats why i was put in silver
lmao, to be honest same happened to me, i was placed in silver (i had bad placement matches anyway ) and now I'm in platinum about to be diamond... system is rigged!!!
FireBred same
hobo 13 how did u do it
grinded the last 3 days of season 3 XD
:) That was 6 months ago, where are you now, higher or lower?
I dropped 700 sr. I had a lot of toxic teammates. This means I almost can't get up again? even next season?
700sr? If ii drop more than 50sr ii just stop playing. The worst mistake you can make is to feed a losing streak. I've seen TH-cam videos where people play bronze-diamond videos. It's possible to get out of there. But people are usually there because of their game sense. I've seen low levels scatter around like roaches in maps
How does this relate to Season 3?Any changes?
Ok so I did placements season 3 on a new account and was consistently getting 3 gold medals a game playing against diamonds and went 6-3-1. Placed VERY low platinum. How did that happen?
Since the game can't estimate your SR from a previous season, it uses your MMR from your quickplay games, I'm guessing that your MMR was around mid to high gold before placements, and your MMR might be high platinum right now but if you go 50/50 from now on you might just level off at mid platinum and find yourself stuck at that SR. Seeming that it's been a month, could you fill me in on what actually happened as you played more ranked matches?
ok question: i only once played ranked plancement matches in s2-s3 or somehting and ranked gold didnt play anymore, now im playing with my girlfriend (witch is a total noob) in quickplay and i wanna start playing ranked, does the days of loosing with her in quickplay come in play or if u once ranked in ranked games it dosnt mather anymore what u do in free play ?
As referenced in the video: it looks at your previous seasons OR the Quickplay MMR if you haven't done any seasons yet (aka new player). I can understand your confusion, since he talks about it like only the previous season matters and you're like "but what if I didn't participate last season but I did earlier than that" right? I would guess that it would still look at your season MMR over your quickplay, since you were probably trying to perform better in ranked matches. Quickplay is meant to have its own system that doesn't affect the Comp system so you can feel free to play just for fun, so I wouldn't imagine they would use that rating just because you didn't participate in every consecutive season. They just use the QP MMR to start with since they don't have anything else to go off of.
Hope that helped :) Thought your comment deserved a reply.
Makes sense to me, thanks and keep the good job :)
Just after my placement matches I made 8 wins and the 7th and 8th made eatch +100 points. So I think that the maximum streak for an accout is about 7 wins. Or maybe the streak increase depends of the lvl between the teams.
I hate this system. A good example of why I dislike this system is like you said in the video: someone is playing 50/50 and losing sr to match their hidden mmr.
This seems stupid to me, if you play 50/50 then your sr is actually more correct than your mmr (or you are in the zone where you go 50/50 so whats the problem). The system should try to find a place where every player go 50/50 and I think there are much easier systems to do this.
PS. love the channel and sorry for my bad english.
its dumb also because i quickplay different heroes just for fun or to do stupid things, most qp games dont even have healers. quickplay rank doesnt really mean shit and shouldnt be used, some people take it really seriously while others dont care at all
+john smith It's only ever used once, because they have to use something. No matter how bad quickplay is for determining your skill it is ALWAYS better than nothing. You will never, ever suffer from this again because now you've played in a competitive season. This is a complete non-issue.
+DHREAVER well the problem is, when I spent the first few months playing random heroes and not caring about winning, when I did placements it ranked me in a rank where I'm at a higher skill level than my teammates, and now I can't be bothered with grinding up 500 points just to play games that are actually competitive
and that seasons rank is used in the next season, so yes, it'll be an issue for a while
+john smith if you tried in your placements you won't be far from your true rank. If you're as good as you think you are you'll gain 500 Sr. in around 4 hours. That's 4 hours of whooping ass. If you think that's a grind... Ask yourself why you're playing. It's easily rectified, fun to rectify, you aren't the only one in that boat and it only needs to be dealt with once. Find some bigger problems, you won't have to look far, Overwatch has plenty.
I doesn't really understand this, after placement I get 2827SR then I win almost every game I play, in fact I loose 4 games(2 of them is getting disconected and can't rejoin) out of 31 games.
And now I'm gaining around 110SR each game(I'm curently at 3546SR)
I don't understand if I deserve this rank or not? My friends who play with me only get 30-40SR each game.
Patipan Wongkleaw This is because your mmr (remember, mmr is a hidden value) is high, much higher than your placement sr would have you believe. Because of this, your sr was affected more by your wins than your losses, coupled with the fact that you had a good win streak(which increases your mmr gain further).
Eventually you will reach a point where you lose half of your games. At this point your sr will settle in to match your mmr.
I am stuck in bronze I've been trying to get out of bronze at first i got placed to 525sr(Bronze)
i climbed up to about 1375sr but for some reason, I've been on a long losing streak and I've fallen below 800 I've been practicing in quick play and in the practice range yet I'm not seeing a lot of improvement if you can give me any tips i would appreciate it
Does this apply to season 3 as well?
From what I heard, MMR has nothing to do with losing and winning, it's your personal skill level.
Master player. Did placements to go from bronze to master for a stream. Got placed platinum instead i had to go back to bronze from there i went from bronze to 2989 season ended. ill continue next season from platinum.
What happened. I gained just 10-20 sr every game from silver and above. it didn't matter if it was the best game i've done in my life. But i was losing sometimes and in those cases i was loosing about 70-90 sr. Explain plz.
I'm at 2000 sr but I feel like I should be at 2100, but when I play with my lower friends I lose, help
Source? Where did you get this info? When doing this sort of "fact" video that's like the most important thing, otherwise it's just your word against theirs and there is no reason for anyone to belive you outside of pure trust, which in my opinion is a little naive, anyways, sources would be appreciated and if not on this video then just feedback if you do anything similar again
You shouldn't say that it is 100% accurate or fact until that information can be corroborated, IMO. That said, I wholly agree with your stated opinion and that is in line with my observation as well. New sub, great videos keep it up.
It gives a basic idea.look at simple case studies.
my winrate is 46 %.my placement sr was 2500
and now after like 50 hrs my sr is 2700(higher even with below 50 winrate)
Tradtruck it seems pretty much the mmr system is exactly like in starcraft
this is pure hypothese cause u are saying that we get placed higher than our actual skill rating, got placed at 1300 sr and im at 2200 now i allways have win and lose 20-35 sr and when i got a lose strak i won 5 sr then i won 20 sr back after 1 win
did blizzard release "this is how our system works in starcraft"?
Hi Skyline. Thanks for a very informative video. However, as you state in the beginning -- there are many myths going around about how the MMR system works. I feel skeptical to your statement that the claims in this video are "100% facts" as you do not name any sources yourself. How did you research this video? What sources did you find? Are they reliable enough to be "100% facts", and not more guesses? I would like to hear your perspective.
Are there first party sources for any of this info?
I'm pretty sure this is just the standard way games calculate SR and MMR.
So started at 1600, went down to 1350, after win and loses I got to 1730 as my high. but now 1678 sr.
So am I bad or is it my team?
if you truly deserve a better rank, you will get there
Work on your fundamentals and game knowledge, learn to warm up and practice before you go into Comp for the day. In season 1 I placed into platinum (53). I quit during that season to focus playing WoW. After around a month of not playing OW I came back to season 2 and my rating tanked (~2100) but after some practice I got it up (~2300). After that I went through a lot of ups and downs with OW and ended up deciding it was better for me as a player to worry about having fun and getting consistently better. For season 3 I decided to do all 10 matches drunk in one night. My rating went down again to ~1700. I've pulled it up to ~2100 again.
I hope that illustrates the ups and downs you can go through in a season as a player. In season 1 and 2 I never did warm ups or practice when I earned my ranks. In season 2 I did every match drunk because of the consistent toxicity of players I encountered. Season 3 so far has been good. It's had the highest variance between my starting SR and my current SR and the attitude of players seems to have been increasing the longer this game is out.
Im pretty sure they got rid of winstreak multipliers last patch, unless your mmr is much higher than your SR (to get smurfs out of diamond very fast eg).
I won and loss 50% of my placement matches and went down 300SR, why might that be?
can anyone give an explanation as why the game would penalize people above the average sr of the team and vice versa?in my mind the system sould reward each player on the team the same amount of mmr change, as everyone wins and looses together as a single unit. if ou play 500 games in a 6 stack with a spread of 900 (sr) (and therefore a big mmr spread too) then it doesn't make sense for the game to draw conclusions and reward some people more than others when the only thing it looks at is weather or not it's a win.
Could you do an updated video for S3/S4? Seems they changed a few things.
Edit: seems to be a bit of misinformation in this video...top 500 is based entirely on SR after 50 wins, the leaderboard can attest to that. S1 rating didn't affect s2 rating at all. I was 20 higher then my friend in S1 (61-42), we did placements together in s2 and placed within 10sr. As for new players it's clearly not based off QP mmr anymore. On my alt there was never anyone below 3000sr in my games after lvl 10. Placements started off with 11 unranked and 1 bronze and finished with mid diamond games where I was the only unranked. Then it placed me 2741 (and another master did placements on their smurf, same win/loss/draw of 7/2/1, 2731sr placement) and I was masters inside 50 games.
But Skyline... how can you say you're initially placed a few hundred sr higher than you should be placed? Skill rating systems are all relative, if everyone's placed a few hundred sr higher, they won't all drop after time, the average sr is just a few hundred sr higher and everyone will go up and down relative to each other...
So is it not a good idea to go into Quick Play to learn heroes without caring about the win?
Sadly, I came to this conclusion after making a 2nd account. It seems like you can't play for fun, even in quick play, if you care about your MMR and SR. It makes you wonder how you're supposed to actually learn a hero.
I'll quote Skyline to show this is not true "batteryfarmfilms" and "rather dull";
"Your casual mmr is separate from your ranked mmr. They don't effect each other. The only time your casual mmr matters is if you are a brand new player who has never played ranked in any season before. In that case, your initial placement is based partly on your casual mmr."
+TheLaubum
So essentially, your QP MMR *only* affects a player if the account hasn't played Competitive in the past?
Then, once you finish placements and get ranked, your Quickplay MMR doesn't affect Competitive?
Just asking for clarification because I'm trying to get to GM in S4 and I don't want anything to negatively affect my ranked MMR (since I usually mess around in QP or practice heroes that I'm not good with).
Exactly, QP will not affect your ranked play in any way.
Ok great, thanks for the additional confirmation.
i know this is an old video but i believe its the opposite of what you said at around 5mins I think they place you lower than were you meant to be. for the same reason you said. When you win the next few games that is what makes you feel good and want to climb if they place you higher than where you should be your just might start losing games therefore making the player feel worse.
567 bronze stuck i have a 38% winrate can i get some tips to get off of it?
Try to excel in one hero of every class, that way if your team is lacking something you can makeup for it. Try to watch higher level gameplay, even through this doesn't pertain to your game it can help you with your positioning on maps. If you can't aim just don't pick dps, other classes are more forgiving with aim (expect snipers).
I think bronze players should group up with others (don't have to be real life friends) I just think it's easier then solo que when you're at that low of a level.
Learn who counters who. When you're that low you don't really need a main person but it's good to have a high range of things you can do even if it's not the best you should learn that "hey they have a pharrah, either I or someone should go soldier or Mcree to shot her out of the sky.
I really think they should just start us off at bronze and we just work our way up from there
Is this just speculation? What's the source for this? Scattered forum posts?
this video is old AF and people still don't understand the concept of MMR.
you did a great job though. hopefully ppl see this
i am average with all characters, i could go plat min with soldier. it is super boring though. what do people like me who want to be switch players do?
When I was in plat I was matched with top 500 and gms and we won with a full hold and I gained 10 sr
Hey, impossible to get that writed on a page !? I m french and i don't understand all you say :D thx a lot for your videos !!
i'm in platinum. i won a game partied up with a gold and a silver. and i gained literally 0 sr. absolutely. frikin. zero. i won 2 matches and lost 1 and my sr went down. wtf?
Well how do i get that mmr then
Okay, let me think a bit... Does the information here mean I can win a bunch of quick play matches and that will help me gain skill rating points?
This whole MMR/SR system looks too complicated for me. I never cared much about how it works though. All I need to know is that you gotta win to get points, and the loss takes these points away, which is a bad thing and should be avoided at all costs.
Winning in QP would only help you, if you´ve never played comp at all. Because the MMR you gained through QP is taken as a starting point for the first set of placement matches you do. Afterwards QP has no further influence on ranked
Good to know, thank you. Was a bit worried I'll have to care about quick plays more.
10/10 placement matches win. always gold dmg and 2 other gold medals...
SILVER... why? because 2 seasons ago I was a silver. I didn't play season 4 and now in season 5 I am back at that trash rank. after 2 weeks I was in almost master really near that. is this a decent think?
i have no idea people were being placed higher. i was placed in gold and had to climb to diamond.
I once got 117 SR after a win streak ^^
Really messy discussion -- Force Gaming at the beginning of the current season stated that the system tends to give a player an SR rating lower than what they can attain. Now you are positing the opposite. I think NO ONE knows for sure.
Also, you put so many hypotheticals in a long video when all you are saying is this: you gain points if you win, and lose points if you lose in both QP and CP.
the only thing that was hypothetical was the exact numbers.
this is how mmr works tho for ALL competitive online games
I believe what Force said was a one time only thing because Blizzard changed the scaling of SR. Completely separate from the core workings of the system.
first time playing competitive in season 4- won 6 lost 4 got into gold
So... I'm just below diamond now (I got diamond but lost a game or 2.) I finished last season in gold, and now I assume I'm getting punished for it, considering I just lost 40 sr then 50 sr not in a losing streak, just 2 loses in a row. This is absolute bullshit.
I got 1 win, 8 lose and 1 draw and given an SR of 1178 now it landslides to 758.. then seeing other profile with 0.98 KD with genji on top of his most played hero but 3000+ SR.
W/L/D doesn't matter much in placements in my experience. It's not like it places you based on your percentage of games won alone. I went 3-6-1 and placed 350 SR above where I was last season because I had improved significantly while playing outside of Comp. Pros went 3-7 and still placed in Grandmaster. One of my friends placed in Plat in S2, got rusty after not playing for two months, then jumped straight into his placements in S3. He went 8-2 and dropped to Gold. I think personal performance is probably a fairly significant factor. At the end of the day, the system determined that you were playing competitively with Bronze players, even if you lost a lot.
It also determined that the Genji main with a 1 KD was playing competitively with Plats and Diamonds. KD isn't the end-all-be-all, but a 1 KD at Bronze isn't worth as much as a 1 KD at Diamond. A 1 KD Diamond player could go into a Bronze game and wreck face, while a 1 KD Bronze player could go into a Diamond game and get destroyed. Even if you have a higher KD than someone at a higher SR, that doesn't mean that you deserve to be at their SR. Which is probably obvious, but I think it's worth mentioning
Soc Rej s3 is my first season. i got 3w 6l 1d and got placed at 1789
Soc Rej 0.98 KD? That guy sucks my season 3 KD is almost 4.00 and I play mostly Lucio and McCree
Does the system actually put you a bit above what you belong to? Doesn't that just discourage players when they see their ranks drop? Then everyone is like: "ELO hell, I belong to top 500 hundred but dropped to bronze from silver because of noob teammates!!!1!1!! My teammates are holding me back!!!1!!1!"
my mmr thought i was bronze player and thats where i got placed. i am now in high plat and i can got diamond soon too.
funny, cuz i usually get placed with high diamond/master/GM players when i go QP
but my SR is 2718
:thinking:
What does MMR stand for?
www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mmr+gaming&*
There is no exactly qp mmr at all, its not work like this. Also qualification dont care if you win or lost your match, its like qp system but its converting your ingame efficiency to modify your season end placement. Overwatch my first fps game (its not actually fps but lets dont lose a point) so when i start playing my aim was so terrible so Iam was able to miss tanks hit boxes ! First month i played a lot and there was only qp, starting from season 2 Iam start playing only comp games and work on my aim and positioning. Now each time Iam press qp button game trying to find for me oponents with similary shity stats , I can see it very clearly because of their ranks in profile and poor gameplay. For example Iam on very rare occasions lose in arcade games because of diference between my current skill and past skill.
p.s my comp rank in season 1 after qualification was ~40 and now Iam hit the master rank. The sad part of this is qp not fun for me anymore, i need to play probably more than 500 hours to make my qp stats at least close to real skill and Iam always being matched with bad players so qp games is boring for me.
You are a great resource for information and insight into Overwatch. But the reason you're not as popular as other Overwatch TH-camrs is because they are more interesting to listen to. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh; it's just the truth. They talk with more vigor and show gameplay in the background. It's not that I want to trash on your channel, I just was thinking about how you could be better yet have so few subscribers in comparison. I am thinking of Stylosa in particular here (he has over 10x your subs). I know it sounds gimmicky, but maybe you should try livening up your videos. Just my thoughts, I'll keep watching regardless.
You're cool, man. I watched a lot of Overwatch videos in the past 3 days, and you're the only one who made me not just subscribe, but start scanning uploaded videos for specific videos that matter to me now. But maybe that's because I don't care about the how or the flash, and just care about the info, the actual content. Or maybe you're just cool enough. =)
You have by far the best channel for useful information for competitive overwatch. Keep doing what you're doing and the subscribers will come to you in time, especially with competitive overwatch gaining more traction.
Citation needed, or at least an explanation to where this certainty comes from.
source?
I play 10 games, I won 9 games for my friend 1700sr to 2485sr back 2475sr silver to gold. that is easy boost for my friend.
right now I'm getting 40-60 sr a game and I'm in masters
Well... I'd like to say this is bs. 3rd season I started on 1800, winning 7 and playing well in my placemnts, finished 2nd season on 2200ish. This season I got 1900, winning 4 but still playing well, finishing last season around 2100. Explain that? I don't believe personal performance is included, I always seem to end up with gold elims/obj time, etc, even playing as rein (I get matched with the morons, and can't get higher solo q'ing) - from what I've seen people who play as offense, and get more kills consistently seem to be the ones who are given higher ranks. Placements make 0 sense, and seems to be more bias towards people who play more attacking characters.
Yay i feel good! or carried i got 2600 SR at like lvl 30
This video explains that in your situation it's very likely your true SR is lower than the SR displayed to you, and you're also being matched in games based on that lower true SR, which means that to stay at 2600 SR, you will need to win more than 50% of your games.
So QP really does matter? 100% of matches in QP, someone says "Bro, it's QP, calm down." LOL
Last season I was 2100
so thats why i verse masters and grandmasters in quick play and in comp im in gold elo hell (not placed for season 3 yet)
Yeah that's the same on my 2nd account. I got placed 2480, while in quick play the whole lobby is full of top 500 players and masters / grand masters. On my main account I'm hovering around masters.
rather dull I wonder if they will make season 4 have a restart for comp mmr, I don't like having teammates that think no tank 4 "offense" is actually a good to play with. and I'm too broke to afford another account lol
The thing is, your MMR is different than SR; it can go up and down from playing any game-mode, as far as I'm aware. Even if they totally reset your comp SR, your placement games would put you with teammates with similar MMR. If the game thinks your MMR is low, and you play like a Grand Master player in your placement games, you will still get placed in Silver or Gold to match your MMR. An option to reset MMR would be very nice, because MMR can hold you back in niche scenarios.
well, like you said, the game-mode doesn't matter for MMR, in quick play i get masters and grandmasters to go against so it should be the same for comp, however i didnt do the season one placements or any games in quick play before that placement, it was my brother... big mistake i know but neither of us were thinking about it back then, and now no matter how good i am, i get much lower skilled players on comp games, and if i 6 stack then thats a totally different fight. things are just bad for my rank at this point but i will still try and improve myself until i get top 500's in quick play and until i get rid of my spaghetti aim. until then i just hope that they either change the comp ranking system or reset comp mmr and have placements be what they were in season 1, and i also hope that i get lucky with good teams so i can climb this god forsaken ladder in comp rank.
I know it's hard to climb. S1 I got placed 39 and climbed to 54, S2 I got placed 2000 and climbed to 3000, S3 I got placed 2500 and climbed to 3400. I know how difficult it is to win games at low rank, even if you're trying your very hardest. I'd say maybe try to master a hero that has decent self sustain and wins 1v1 duels, such as Roadhog. It's always good to get a good team comp though, like playing Reinhardt when your team really needs one, even though you feel like you could contribute more on 76. That and practicing good positioning, there are a lot of guides on youtube, Lone Hawk actually put out a good positioning guide (shocker, I know.) Skyline has some good videos too. Just learn all you can, and hopefully you'll slowly climb.
I got placed at 700 sr man, lost the same amount of games as my friend who was placed at 2300. After a long ass Time o got back up to like 1700. Why is it you don't get shit sr for winning in bronze
Bullshit, I was rank 54 at the end of season 1 (highest was 56) and then I placed 2300 SR season 2 and I went 4-6 in placements getting multiple golds every game. Also, according to you, it means that it is to one's advantage to always play a dps in placement to gain max MMR rating since supports and main tanks don't get high stats.
Season 1 I got placed at 39, climb to 54, and ended at 52. Season 2 I got placed 2100 and climbed to 3000, but ended season 2 at 2600. Season 3 I got placed 2500, but climbed to 3300, and right now I'm at around 3100. I play pretty much Lucio exclusively, and sometimes I'll play a tank or another healer. I don't know how the MMR / SR algorithm works, but it always seems to place me lower than I'm able to climb. I don't know if that's because I play healer, or my playstyle, or some other factor. It's quite frustrating having to climb constantly though.
Short story, I think Skyline is correct with his assumptions. I just hate that Blizzard refuses to tell you how their MMR works. I don't know if I shouldn't pre-fire corners because it lowers my accuracy, shouldn't effectively zone an area around the objective because it's lowering my objective time (when we have 3 teammates already on the point), etc etc.. It feels like the game punishes my MMR for playing the way I want to play, but maybe it's because my MMR started so low because when I first got the game I wanted to try a lot of heroes / play for fun without winning.
I started at 2300... then went to down 2100
I started at 2300 too... then went up to 2960. Now I'm at 2600. So close to diamond, but I've never gotten it!
I was 3.3 the whole season then this last week I fell down to 2.4K wtf is up with that?
Hurricane ur bad
:) The first thing before speaking about MMR and SR, Skyline Dear, you should have explained how the hidden MMR is made. What are the criteria for a 50 MMR of a Genji player and a 50 MMR for a Mercy player!?
I won 5 lost 5 im placed 1788
Blizzard ranking system of Overwatch is just pure shit.
Season 2 and season 3 are the same. The same shit.
Blizzard make evrything to make us stay playing.
No chain win? No promotion, and after they want you believe In elo hell which not exist.
Loosing more point than winning ... never see that
One day I 've bad teammate in soloq, and the other day, only good ...may be a myth ...
k
You're just bad
Tyler Hendrix dude that is good I am right now in masters on a winning streak and I gain 40-60 skill rating every game and now I'm at 3685
if you didnt want to confuse viewers with the hidden mmr value, why are you using such a similar number lol you said it yourself and you're using numbers like 2300 to compare to 1700 sr. use 100 or something lmao
I was grandmaster am now is bronze please fix blizz
High Cheese Lord lol, that cant be true at all
u dont say lmao
High Cheese Lord whats ur battletag u can prove it if i add u
i said u dont say, meaning i said its obvious its not true its a joke lol
I just lost a game and got 12 Sr WTF LOSE NOT WIN
i win 15 and lose 27
300+ hours into Overwatch and am still in bronze. Please ask a bronze player how they play and issues they have and 90% will say: 1) bad team comp 2) no comma 3) terrible positioning and 4) difficult to climb because you do your best and carry the team (3-5 golds) and still lose. THIS IS NOT OK. I DO THIS WELL CONSISTENTLY AND AM STILL IN BRONZE WITH 10 YEAR OLDS.
Thanks for reading and upvote so he will do a vid!!!!
Your logic is flawed, people who are good enough to get out of bronze, get out of bronze, there is a reason people make it out of bronze. You beat your foe, not your team. If you haven't won, but you have gold medals doesn't that just prove that having gold medals doesn't mean anything? "Oh my team was bad" I hear you say I'm willing to say that you aren't perfect either and you too make mistakes... a lot of mistakes... there is a reason you aren't out of bronze. Let me ask you this, do you do anything those things you mentioned at the top? If not then. No, you do those things otherwise, you would be out of bronze.
this game MMR decide all of game win or lose, not my play skill , system forced to try set 50% winrate , stupid system
I just wanna know why I keep getting placed with Koreans. It ain't right, we can't communicate, like you're SUPPOSED to in comp
The reason you're getting matched with Koreans is that there are a lot of cheating happening in Asian servers, so a lot of asian players are transfering to different regions to avoid the cheating. But yes, what you say is true, it is hard to communicate with asian players who do not understand english.
| Zodrigon | I've had ONE positive match with a korean team. I was the only english speaker, so I was the odd one out. At one point I said Choo choo and they all started repeating it. Fantastic. CHOO CHOO. But otherwise, living hell.
Juan Carlos lmao
TLDR: it doesnt
I bought overwatch 27.12.2016 And now im level 39 and 2100sr
tuucca. than you just good bruh. or at least much better than those in bronze and silver. gold is 2000-2500 right?
Daniel Gomez Thanks! And yeah it is.
Daniel Gomez That was on console. Played my placements on pc recently and got placed arpund 2.2k and im level 28 there :D
wanna play on pc? I'm in eu and about the same sr
StarKill Im eu too. My battletag is Tuucca#2839 id you want to add me :)