This was one of the best episodes of S3. Even though the tone is very comedic in terms of Buffy being able to read minds, it deals with potential mass murder, and teenage suicide. The writers did an incredible job to match these two themes throughout. The embarrassing Xander's thoughts, as with other teenage boys obsessed with sex, and Joyce's attempt to try and stop Buffy finding out that Giles had sex with Joyce are embarrassing and so funny at same time. Earshot is always a fan favourite, keeping up the quality of S3 episodes. Jonathan's attempt to commit suicide is of course stopped by Buffy, as she understands his angst and emotional pain. It was if course not shown on tv at time as well it coincided with the Columbine massacre. It was a brilliant piece of writing.
The part you asked about when Buffy "drinks" that blue liquid that Angel gives her, if I remember correctly,Jane Espenson said in the commentary that they(prop dept I guess) put something clear over the top of that bottle(clear wrap or something like) so the liquid never even touched her mouth when she went to drink the stuff. The effect looked pretty good.
Did everyone notice the two guys stop and stare at Buffy and Giles after overhearing Buffy commenting about Giles having sex with her mother? Love that little afterthought, however it came to be 😅
This was not aired during the original run of season 3 because there had been a school shooting pretty recently at the time that it was supposed to air. They did eventually wind up airing this right before the intended premiere of season 4 and for people who weren't paying attention it was sort of confusing at the time because it is obviously set before the season 3 finale.
not just any school shooting. Columbine! Arguably the first mass shooting of the internet age that got a lot of coverage, because they were rare once, sadly in 20+ years since this episode aired, they have become commonplace sadly.
@@Nexusofgeek Yes. I knew it was Columbine. I was nine or ten and didn't really pay much attention to the news and even I knew it was Columbine, but the relevance to people who are just watching it now is that there was a school shooting. If someone wasn't around to experience the media aftermath of Columbine, then they will never quite understand what it was like in the aftermath.
@@plothole181 which is exactly my point, Columbine was different than other shootings, but I see what you are saying. Sometimes I forget I am old lol. I was already 29 when I saw this episode air for the first time
This episode was originally supposed to air the day of or the day after the columbine shooting occurred but of course got pushed to the end of the season in the US (it still aired on its originally date in other countries). It was by pure coincidence that the episode on school shootings was set to air that date, and when a real school shooting occurred, the episode was moved out of respect and because of how traumatic it would have been to actually air.
I love how this episode starts off like it will play as a humorous episode before leading into the serious issue stuff. I remember wondering at one point early on how did this episode get postponed before the talk of school shootings and Jonathon bringing a gun to school happened. It's original airdate of just after Columbine would have been too much for people.
I think the original episode had Johnatan shooting kids, and Buffy and the gang having to stop (and, possibly kill) him. It makes no sense why he would bring an expensive high-powered sniper rifle with a high-powered scope, to the top of a clock tower, in a perfect position to shoot at unsuspecting students and staff...just to kill himself. Also, the voice we hear say, "This time tomorrow, I'll kill you all." sounds more like Johnathan whispering, than what you would think of for the lunch lady. They did a good job with the reshoots, but I doubt that what we saw was even close to the episode that was originally pulled.
@@TheJankyAnarchist I make the assumption that it was the only gun available to him aka his dad's gun. What was doesn't matter to me because I am a Watsonian. In-universe details are what I mostly focus on. And in-universe Buffy is so close to collapse that she cannot tell the difference between male and female to the point where "it doesn't sound human." Doylist details are fun (like the reshoots details and original script details), but are only just fun facts for me. Not really anything that I think back up in-universe details.
Jealous of that t-shirt. I need to order one for next time I get back to the UK. Always loved this episode - such a great mix of comedy and serious heavy themes. And I love anticipating your reactions to the great lines I know are coming up. I hope you had a very Merry Christmas. 🎄🍾
A lovely Christmas with Jayne, Dakara, Buffy and Sharon. As Giles would say it’s…”bloody priceless”. Cheers and Merry Christmas to the entire Dakara nation.
having the power to read minds seems like a useful power but then you realize it would be incredibly scary to hear thoughts like someone want to kill someone else whether they mean it or not and also it would be incredibly arkward , funny but mostly highly disturbing having to hear people's very horny and pervy thoughts too case in point Xander thinking about Buffy naked 😂😂, but really you would just get a splitting headache hearing people's constant thoughts the power of telepathy is definitely one power I can do without if given the choice for a power to have( also I love that they swung back around to Buffy finding out that Giles and Joyce hooked up episodes ago 😂)
Earshot was brilliant but it's release on TV got delayed because of a very unfortunate and tragic event and they felt they couldn't really release the episode too near that incident. there was a school shooting somewhere and once you see this episode you kind of realise "ah makes sense" they had to delay the episode.
Great reaction. I'm glad you noticed that Cordy said exactly what she thought. Then the reveal that Joyce and Giles had sex in that other episode (band candy). Everybody reacted according to their personality. . Really good episode.
I think Buffy's "What am I, Saint Buffy?" isn't out of character or poor character on her part at all. She just saved his life and has done enough and Jonathan is showing signs of a crush on his hero. Why should she then feel any need or pressure to play along with his fantasy? Big no from her on crossing that line with her "generosity" is more than fair!
Hmm...with Buffy unwilling to ask Angel what he's feeling directly, we have yet another episode tying into the running theme of lack of proper communication amongst our group of regulars (not to mention all the hidden feelings that all the students of Sunnydale walk around with everyday).
If you didn't know...they originally had to pull this episode from it's original air date. The Columbine school shooting occurred just before the episode was going to air and the network decide to pull it due to it dealing with guns at school. It didn't air until several months later, just before the start of Season 4. I had thought the episode must have dealt with the subject insensitively and that was why it was pulled. When I finally saw the episode, I was surprised it dealt with the issue of teen suicide and young people feeling alone with great sensitivity. (Not a surprise, I guess. This IS Buffy the Vampire Slayer we're talking about.) I can understand the network feeling nervous and not wanting to air the episode, though.
I know you're ahead on Patreon so this isn't a spoiler but in the episode 'The Prom" when Jonathan presents Buffy with the class protector award, it lost some of it's punch since "Earshot' had not yet aired and we didn't know that Buffy had saved Jonathan's life.
20:30 the guy who plays Jonathan is a good actor but this scene is nothing like talking an actual person down. I actually had to do that two weeks ago and there's a lot more crying and eventually we couldn't talk ehr down so we actually had to remove her from the ledge sue had intended to jump from by force. Jonathan was rational and usually people arent rational when they kill themselves. The girl I interacted with couldn't say anything except crying and repeating that nothing would ever get better.
Well, Buffy didn't know Jonathan was going to commit suicide. He was distraught and desperate to end it all, and she thought he was a simple psycho who had enough of being bullied.
The only thing that took the humor out of this episode was that it aired September 21, 1999. We that grew up around that time remember columbine April 20, 1999.. 😢 They actually had to push back this episode out of fear. It was hard time to be in high school and everyone was scared.
I mean... Xander will eventually mature into something a little more than just a hormonal teenage boy, but at this point in the show he really isn't all that much more than that. 🤷♀
Nice t-shirt, I just bought one for my niece. Great ep, the one single ep I'd show people to demonstrate the series' greatness. Only better if Faith and some later characters were in it.
The fact that it was Xander who knew it was the lunch lady but yet no one believed him 😕. Here's what I think and it's silly but he tends to have random moments where he ends up being at the right place, right time. Think about it, the only way he was able to stop the lunch lady from poisoning people was all because he wanted jello?? The way he just switched from trying to find someone to quickly wanting jello makes me think the Powers That Be were watching everything unfold and wishing they could help out they make Xander want jello to stop the lunch lady lol. Another thing Dakara, this episode was postponed for awhile because of the Columbine shooting that happened during this time. The shooting took place on April 20, 1999. I had just turned 14 seven days prior to this. At the time, I was finishing up the last couple of weeks I had left in 8th grade. We weren't told or knew this had happened. We got home and it was on every channel. It was because of this that I then began to watch the news. Oh but 2 years later and I can tell you in details where I was during 9/11 attacks.
Hi Dakara, love your reactions as usual 😉I totally agree with you on that one. Love this episode, the comic part mixed with the heavy stuff. I felt the same after Jonathan's confession that there is..nothing after, as if it was, ok not the mass killer, let's move on and joke! First with Xander immediately after, then with that Buffy line, out of character for me too..(I felt that for a future Buffy line as well, even more strongly but that's not the time!). Each time I see the stunt on the tower, I roll my eyes, can't help it, way too much..! Looking forward to your next video, again, thanks a lot!!!
On "what am I, Saint Buffy?..." While it's certainly mean... it's not out of character. She doesn't want to date a guy she's not attracted to. That's pretty accurate to life. She'll date toxic men who are bad for her, or charming men who are too old for her (and secretly toxic: Reptile Boy anyone) but being short and nerdy? Deal breaker. I actually thing this is something of Whedon's own experience, insecurity and bitterness sneaking in. Social hierarchies are a thing. As somebody who was VERY badly bullied, people would be kind to me in private, but in public they would either target me too, or ignore me entirely. Girls who SHOULD have been my peers (I was a boffin, so top set for everything, with classmates who SHOULD have at least been able to tolerate me) would routinely abuse me. Even to the point I had to sit at tables on my own bc they wouldn't allow me to sit with them and would express open and immediate disgust if I spoke to them at all. The high irony there is that the "bully boys" in those classes (the guys who initially stole and destroyed my stuff etc) saw how badly I was being targeted and actually started being nice to me. Hell, the prettiest popular girl in my school (imo) was the little sister of one of my brother's gf's and SHE was always wonderful to me, so this is NOT a "popularity" or "beautiful people" thing. It's simply facts that there will ALWAYS be a prefferred target for abuse and insecure people will use that target to deflect attention from themselves. Here Buffy is simply being a teenager. She is aware that being seen with Jonathan would be detrimental to her status. The less believable thing is that Jonathan has ACTUALLY dated Cordy, so things can't actually be that bad for him (I'd have cut my own arm off just to spend time with my highschool crush without her being mean to me, let alone go on an actual date with her. One of my happier memories is walking my crush and her best friend to a school dance and having a thoroughly pleasant conversation, just wish I'd have had the courage to ask either of them to dance, bc her bestie was also terrific people. Likely wouldn't have ended well though, considering how often I was assaulted and how frequently it was for daring to be friendly to girls at school, as the scrawny ginger nerd everyone bullied. This was still the era where teenagers segregated themselves on gender lines to "be cool" and crossing those boundaries took more bravery than I had left in me after a decade plus of verbal and physical abuse from peers)
What status? Buffy is an ex-cheerleader/mean girl. If she wasn't the exterminator of the supernatural underworld, she would just be as shallow as Cordelia and the Cordettes. Buffy would have been friends with them, but almost attacking Cordelia in the pilot episode broke that possibility. Buffy's responsibilities should have given her a sense of real maturity and real compassion, but Whedon's weirdness gets in the way (Jane Esperson wrote this episode, BTW). So Dakara's right. Just because you're a teenager, it doesn't excuse you from having a sense of empathy for anyone who doesn't fit in. Oh, yeah. When did Jonathan dated Cordy?🤔
@@Madbandit77 Reptile boy ^^ After nearly being eaten by a giant snake Cordy decides that high school boys are a better option. Jonathan brings her a coffee and she tells him off for getting her order wrong. And I'll just disagree on the point that Buffy doesn't care what people think. She ABSOLUTELY has social status and if you think that ONLY the popular "mean girls" behave like that you are VERY sheltered. (I was the "Jonathan" and I can say first hand that "unpopular" girls were MORE likely to be nasty to gain clout or even simply to deflect negative attention from themselves. Even at 16 sitting serious exams I had regular female class mates deny my use of shared equipment, refuse to allow me to sit near them in lessons and degrade me FAR worse than boys did. Blaming it on "Whedon's weirdness" points to some people never accepting female characters can have flaws or make bad choices)
@@DmGray Wrong. That wasn't a date, but an act of juvenile sadism. Buffy doesn't have popular social status because she hangs with a nerd (Willow), a doofus (Xander) and the high school librarian (Giles). I think you're the one who's living a shelter life, despite your experiences. Girls can be cruel, but they don't have to be. I'm not saying female characters can't have any flaws. I'm saying human beings who have high standards can't renege on them because what's the point of standing up for something beyond themselves?
@@Madbandit77 If you think "unpopular kids" won't engage in bullying behaviour, I repeat again you are incredibly sheltered. Typically there will be a handful of kids that are targeted by everyone by social consensus. Willow probably qualifies, Xander doesn't seem to, but I suppose that is arguable with the way Harmony mocks Cordy's choice there. I'm literally describing personal experience here. With "nerdy" girls who were NOT popular personally ostracising me simply because I was so socially toxic. This is even portrayed DIRECTLY in the show, as Buffy is on course to be a "popular girl" until she chooses to associate with Willow. But there's a marked difference between befriending Willow in a desperate attempt to do better at school and dating a boy you find unattractive who is ALSO unpopular. Giles is unequivocally correct that it would do the lad good. But Buffy doesn't OWE anyone anything and her making that shallow choice is VERY reflective of the choices any teenager might make. Projecting it all onto Whedon's personal failings is utter bullshit.
yes the line about Jonathan was insensitive, but I don't see it as out of character since Buffy is a teenager, she's not perfect, she still has some superficial flaws, albeit not as bad as Cordelia for example. A perfect heroine is boring, Buffy is superb because she is complex and flawed like all good heroes
Worst red herring ever: Jonathan goes to a clock tower with a sniper rifle to commit suicide? Seriously? I just want to point out that Xander saves the day, again. He even said the lunch lady was going to murder them with Mulligan stew. He was right!
when you are not thinking straight and are about to end your life, you use whatever you can get your hands on. I did not think it was a bad red herring, considering getting one's hands on weapons was more difficult in 1999 than it is now (sadly)
It's a hunting rifle, actually. Probably the most common type of gun for a small town family to have in the house, which is how Jonathan would have been able to get it the day after Willow's interrogation, which is surely what pushed him into going up into the tower, in order to make people pay attention as he killed himself.
I think Buffy was just being honest regarding Jonathan -- her character is NOT a saint -- this was a real world reaction. Shows pretending that people aren't people are boring and aren't as interesting.
Congrats on 30K you legend! Love the content, keep up the great work! Happy Holidays!
Cordy literally speaking her mind is always a fun nod to her character
Joyce trying her best to avoid Buffy, so she doesn't find out about Giles 😂
This was one of the best episodes of S3. Even though the tone is very comedic in terms of Buffy being able to read minds, it deals with potential mass murder, and teenage suicide. The writers did an incredible job to match these two themes throughout. The embarrassing Xander's thoughts, as with other teenage boys obsessed with sex, and Joyce's attempt to try and stop Buffy finding out that Giles had sex with Joyce are embarrassing and so funny at same time. Earshot is always a fan favourite, keeping up the quality of S3 episodes. Jonathan's attempt to commit suicide is of course stopped by Buffy, as she understands his angst and emotional pain. It was if course not shown on tv at time as well it coincided with the Columbine massacre. It was a brilliant piece of writing.
It was not shown in the US by the time it was supposed to air. It was shown overseas.
As mentioned, this was supposed to be on TV in April 1999, but then they pulled it due to being immediately after Columbine High School shooting.
It's funny how Xander was right all along about it being the lunch lady.
Saw this episode way-back-when, literally did not notice that until this watch-through.😁
@@lachlan1980 same here
I remember on initial viewing really loving that Cordelia says exactly what she thinks. Funny and said a lot about her character.
She's even said "I think it, I say it."
fan favourite episode
I think first time we hear Angel say that Buffy is his first and only love
Just realized that Willow thought the idea of creatures with no mouths was “disquieting”.
Danny Strong is indeed a good actor. Look him up on Wikipedia and get set to be amazed at what else he's done.
Gotta love that return nod to Band Candy, lol!! Giles and Joyce. Oh dear.
The part you asked about when Buffy "drinks" that blue liquid that Angel gives her, if I remember correctly,Jane Espenson said in the commentary that they(prop dept I guess) put something clear over the top of that bottle(clear wrap or something like) so the liquid never even touched her mouth when she went to drink the stuff. The effect looked pretty good.
Did everyone notice the two guys stop and stare at Buffy and Giles after overhearing Buffy commenting about Giles having sex with her mother? Love that little afterthought, however it came to be 😅
This whole season is great, but the back half of it all the way up to the finale is the strongest run of episodes I've seen in any show of its type.
Exactly :)
I think seasons 3 and 5 are the best of the show. A lot of good stuff still coming
This was not aired during the original run of season 3 because there had been a school shooting pretty recently at the time that it was supposed to air. They did eventually wind up airing this right before the intended premiere of season 4 and for people who weren't paying attention it was sort of confusing at the time because it is obviously set before the season 3 finale.
not just any school shooting. Columbine! Arguably the first mass shooting of the internet age that got a lot of coverage, because they were rare once, sadly in 20+ years since this episode aired, they have become commonplace sadly.
@@Nexusofgeek Yes. I knew it was Columbine. I was nine or ten and didn't really pay much attention to the news and even I knew it was Columbine, but the relevance to people who are just watching it now is that there was a school shooting. If someone wasn't around to experience the media aftermath of Columbine, then they will never quite understand what it was like in the aftermath.
@@plothole181 which is exactly my point, Columbine was different than other shootings, but I see what you are saying. Sometimes I forget I am old lol. I was already 29 when I saw this episode air for the first time
Man I remember when this aired at a sensitive time ❤️🙏 Almost forgot about this one, Merry Christmas Dakara 🕯️🎄🕯️
10:05 😂😆
This episode was originally supposed to air the day of or the day after the columbine shooting occurred but of course got pushed to the end of the season in the US (it still aired on its originally date in other countries). It was by pure coincidence that the episode on school shootings was set to air that date, and when a real school shooting occurred, the episode was moved out of respect and because of how traumatic it would have been to actually air.
I love how this episode starts off like it will play as a humorous episode before leading into the serious issue stuff. I remember wondering at one point early on how did this episode get postponed before the talk of school shootings and Jonathon bringing a gun to school happened. It's original airdate of just after Columbine would have been too much for people.
I think the original episode had Johnatan shooting kids, and Buffy and the gang having to stop (and, possibly kill) him. It makes no sense why he would bring an expensive high-powered sniper rifle with a high-powered scope, to the top of a clock tower, in a perfect position to shoot at unsuspecting students and staff...just to kill himself. Also, the voice we hear say, "This time tomorrow, I'll kill you all." sounds more like Johnathan whispering, than what you would think of for the lunch lady. They did a good job with the reshoots, but I doubt that what we saw was even close to the episode that was originally pulled.
@@TheJankyAnarchist I make the assumption that it was the only gun available to him aka his dad's gun. What was doesn't matter to me because I am a Watsonian. In-universe details are what I mostly focus on. And in-universe Buffy is so close to collapse that she cannot tell the difference between male and female to the point where "it doesn't sound human." Doylist details are fun (like the reshoots details and original script details), but are only just fun facts for me. Not really anything that I think back up in-universe details.
@@TheJankyAnarchistThere were no reshoots.
@@Madbandit77 I don't buy that for a second.
@@TheJankyAnarchist Within a short amount of time?
Jealous of that t-shirt. I need to order one for next time I get back to the UK. Always loved this episode - such a great mix of comedy and serious heavy themes. And I love anticipating your reactions to the great lines I know are coming up. I hope you had a very Merry Christmas. 🎄🍾
A lovely Christmas with Jayne, Dakara, Buffy and Sharon. As Giles would say it’s…”bloody priceless”. Cheers and Merry Christmas to the entire Dakara nation.
I love that Cordy literally speaks her mind. She holds nothing back & doesn't care what anyone thinks.
Angel is technically older than 243 he was technically "alive" when he spent a couple hundred years in a hell dimension.
Your saying Xander looks different reminded me that the actor has a twin brother.
Nineteen times a day sounds like a scheduling nightmare.
having the power to read minds seems like a useful power but then you realize it would be incredibly scary to hear thoughts like someone want to kill someone else whether they mean it or not and also it would be incredibly arkward , funny but mostly highly disturbing having to hear people's very horny and pervy thoughts too case in point Xander thinking about Buffy naked 😂😂, but really you would just get a splitting headache hearing people's constant thoughts the power of telepathy is definitely one power I can do without if given the choice for a power to have( also I love that they swung back around to Buffy finding out that Giles and Joyce hooked up episodes ago 😂)
eh, i'm not convinced. i'm still up for mindreading powers if anyone's handing them out.
This episode is so funny love this one
They almost didn't broadcast this episode. They had to wait for few weeks, because shooting at the Columbine high school happened at the same time.
My favorite funny moment was when Buffy found out about Joyce and Giles. "Twice?"
Earshot was brilliant but it's release on TV got delayed because of a very unfortunate and tragic event and they felt they couldn't really release the episode too near that incident. there was a school shooting somewhere and once you see this episode you kind of realise "ah makes sense" they had to delay the episode.
They didn't have to delay it.
Great reaction. I'm glad you noticed that Cordy said exactly what she thought. Then the reveal that Joyce and Giles had sex in that other episode (band candy). Everybody reacted according to their personality. . Really good episode.
I think Buffy's "What am I, Saint Buffy?" isn't out of character or poor character on her part at all. She just saved his life and has done enough and Jonathan is showing signs of a crush on his hero. Why should she then feel any need or pressure to play along with his fantasy? Big no from her on crossing that line with her "generosity" is more than fair!
Hmm...with Buffy unwilling to ask Angel what he's feeling directly, we have yet another episode tying into the running theme of lack of proper communication amongst our group of regulars (not to mention all the hidden feelings that all the students of Sunnydale walk around with everyday).
Twice??!?!!
Xander was right, it was the lunch lady.
If you didn't know...they originally had to pull this episode from it's original air date. The Columbine school shooting occurred just before the episode was going to air and the network decide to pull it due to it dealing with guns at school. It didn't air until several months later, just before the start of Season 4.
I had thought the episode must have dealt with the subject insensitively and that was why it was pulled. When I finally saw the episode, I was surprised it dealt with the issue of teen suicide and young people feeling alone with great sensitivity. (Not a surprise, I guess. This IS Buffy the Vampire Slayer we're talking about.) I can understand the network feeling nervous and not wanting to air the episode, though.
I know you're ahead on Patreon so this isn't a spoiler but in the episode 'The Prom" when Jonathan presents Buffy with the class protector award, it lost some of it's punch since "Earshot' had not yet aired and we didn't know that Buffy had saved Jonathan's life.
Sarah tried to convince the network to air the episode, but it was a no go.
Wait, so you're saying that British people can't control the thoughts in their own heads? I thought that was your collective superpower.
This one isn't in the playlist at all. I nearly missed it, but I had to see your reaction to "TWICE!?" and the final shot. I was not disappointed.
20:30 the guy who plays Jonathan is a good actor but this scene is nothing like talking an actual person down. I actually had to do that two weeks ago and there's a lot more crying and eventually we couldn't talk ehr down so we actually had to remove her from the ledge sue had intended to jump from by force. Jonathan was rational and usually people arent rational when they kill themselves. The girl I interacted with couldn't say anything except crying and repeating that nothing would ever get better.
Well, Buffy didn't know Jonathan was going to commit suicide. He was distraught and desperate to end it all, and she thought he was a simple psycho who had enough of being bullied.
The only thing that took the humor out of this episode was that it aired September 21, 1999. We that grew up around that time remember columbine April 20, 1999.. 😢 They actually had to push back this episode out of fear. It was hard time to be in high school and everyone was scared.
Lovn' the shirt!!!
I love this episode 💟
~300 "standing poles" a day at that age and anything can set it rising lol, puberty is ###%
I mean... Xander will eventually mature into something a little more than just a hormonal teenage boy, but at this point in the show he really isn't all that much more than that. 🤷♀
Nice t-shirt, I just bought one for my niece. Great ep, the one single ep I'd show people to demonstrate the series' greatness. Only better if Faith and some later characters were in it.
The fact that it was Xander who knew it was the lunch lady but yet no one believed him 😕. Here's what I think and it's silly but he tends to have random moments where he ends up being at the right place, right time. Think about it, the only way he was able to stop the lunch lady from poisoning people was all because he wanted jello?? The way he just switched from trying to find someone to quickly wanting jello makes me think the Powers That Be were watching everything unfold and wishing they could help out they make Xander want jello to stop the lunch lady lol.
Another thing Dakara, this episode was postponed for awhile because of the Columbine shooting that happened during this time. The shooting took place on April 20, 1999. I had just turned 14 seven days prior to this. At the time, I was finishing up the last couple of weeks I had left in 8th grade. We weren't told or knew this had happened. We got home and it was on every channel. It was because of this that I then began to watch the news. Oh but 2 years later and I can tell you in details where I was during 9/11 attacks.
Jonathan actor is so good he was giving acting lessons as needed to the cast and is a grand 5 foot 3. I'm sure the line was a friendly joke.
Hi Dakara, love your reactions as usual 😉I totally agree with you on that one. Love this episode, the comic part mixed with the heavy stuff. I felt the same after Jonathan's confession that there is..nothing after, as if it was, ok not the mass killer, let's move on and joke! First with Xander immediately after, then with that Buffy line, out of character for me too..(I felt that for a future Buffy line as well, even more strongly but that's not the time!). Each time I see the stunt on the tower, I roll my eyes, can't help it, way too much..! Looking forward to your next video, again, thanks a lot!!!
It's actually the other way around - there's something inside Angelus (a soul) that he can't fight.
On "what am I, Saint Buffy?..."
While it's certainly mean... it's not out of character.
She doesn't want to date a guy she's not attracted to. That's pretty accurate to life. She'll date toxic men who are bad for her, or charming men who are too old for her (and secretly toxic: Reptile Boy anyone) but being short and nerdy? Deal breaker.
I actually thing this is something of Whedon's own experience, insecurity and bitterness sneaking in.
Social hierarchies are a thing. As somebody who was VERY badly bullied, people would be kind to me in private, but in public they would either target me too, or ignore me entirely. Girls who SHOULD have been my peers (I was a boffin, so top set for everything, with classmates who SHOULD have at least been able to tolerate me) would routinely abuse me. Even to the point I had to sit at tables on my own bc they wouldn't allow me to sit with them and would express open and immediate disgust if I spoke to them at all.
The high irony there is that the "bully boys" in those classes (the guys who initially stole and destroyed my stuff etc) saw how badly I was being targeted and actually started being nice to me. Hell, the prettiest popular girl in my school (imo) was the little sister of one of my brother's gf's and SHE was always wonderful to me, so this is NOT a "popularity" or "beautiful people" thing. It's simply facts that there will ALWAYS be a prefferred target for abuse and insecure people will use that target to deflect attention from themselves.
Here Buffy is simply being a teenager.
She is aware that being seen with Jonathan would be detrimental to her status.
The less believable thing is that Jonathan has ACTUALLY dated Cordy, so things can't actually be that bad for him (I'd have cut my own arm off just to spend time with my highschool crush without her being mean to me, let alone go on an actual date with her. One of my happier memories is walking my crush and her best friend to a school dance and having a thoroughly pleasant conversation, just wish I'd have had the courage to ask either of them to dance, bc her bestie was also terrific people. Likely wouldn't have ended well though, considering how often I was assaulted and how frequently it was for daring to be friendly to girls at school, as the scrawny ginger nerd everyone bullied. This was still the era where teenagers segregated themselves on gender lines to "be cool" and crossing those boundaries took more bravery than I had left in me after a decade plus of verbal and physical abuse from peers)
What status? Buffy is an ex-cheerleader/mean girl. If she wasn't the exterminator of the supernatural underworld, she would just be as shallow as Cordelia and the Cordettes. Buffy would have been friends with them, but almost attacking Cordelia in the pilot episode broke that possibility. Buffy's responsibilities should have given her a sense of real maturity and real compassion, but Whedon's weirdness gets in the way (Jane Esperson wrote this episode, BTW). So Dakara's right. Just because you're a teenager, it doesn't excuse you from having a sense of empathy for anyone who doesn't fit in.
Oh, yeah. When did Jonathan dated Cordy?🤔
@@Madbandit77
Reptile boy ^^
After nearly being eaten by a giant snake Cordy decides that high school boys are a better option. Jonathan brings her a coffee and she tells him off for getting her order wrong.
And I'll just disagree on the point that Buffy doesn't care what people think.
She ABSOLUTELY has social status and if you think that ONLY the popular "mean girls" behave like that you are VERY sheltered. (I was the "Jonathan" and I can say first hand that "unpopular" girls were MORE likely to be nasty to gain clout or even simply to deflect negative attention from themselves. Even at 16 sitting serious exams I had regular female class mates deny my use of shared equipment, refuse to allow me to sit near them in lessons and degrade me FAR worse than boys did. Blaming it on "Whedon's weirdness" points to some people never accepting female characters can have flaws or make bad choices)
@@DmGray Wrong. That wasn't a date, but an act of juvenile sadism.
Buffy doesn't have popular social status because she hangs with a nerd (Willow), a doofus (Xander) and the high school librarian (Giles). I think you're the one who's living a shelter life, despite your experiences. Girls can be cruel, but they don't have to be. I'm not saying female characters can't have any flaws. I'm saying human beings who have high standards can't renege on them because what's the point of standing up for something beyond themselves?
@@Madbandit77 If you think "unpopular kids" won't engage in bullying behaviour, I repeat again you are incredibly sheltered.
Typically there will be a handful of kids that are targeted by everyone by social consensus. Willow probably qualifies, Xander doesn't seem to, but I suppose that is arguable with the way Harmony mocks Cordy's choice there.
I'm literally describing personal experience here. With "nerdy" girls who were NOT popular personally ostracising me simply because I was so socially toxic.
This is even portrayed DIRECTLY in the show, as Buffy is on course to be a "popular girl" until she chooses to associate with Willow. But there's a marked difference between befriending Willow in a desperate attempt to do better at school and dating a boy you find unattractive who is ALSO unpopular.
Giles is unequivocally correct that it would do the lad good. But Buffy doesn't OWE anyone anything and her making that shallow choice is VERY reflective of the choices any teenager might make. Projecting it all onto Whedon's personal failings is utter bullshit.
Seriously what the point here ? Why you Watch This show ?
yes the line about Jonathan was insensitive, but I don't see it as out of character since Buffy is a teenager, she's not perfect, she still has some superficial flaws, albeit not as bad as Cordelia for example. A perfect heroine is boring, Buffy is superb because she is complex and flawed like all good heroes
Worst red herring ever: Jonathan goes to a clock tower with a sniper rifle to commit suicide? Seriously?
I just want to point out that Xander saves the day, again. He even said the lunch lady was going to murder them with Mulligan stew. He was right!
when you are not thinking straight and are about to end your life, you use whatever you can get your hands on. I did not think it was a bad red herring, considering getting one's hands on weapons was more difficult in 1999 than it is now (sadly)
It's a hunting rifle, actually. Probably the most common type of gun for a small town family to have in the house, which is how Jonathan would have been able to get it the day after Willow's interrogation, which is surely what pushed him into going up into the tower, in order to make people pay attention as he killed himself.
I think Buffy was just being honest regarding Jonathan -- her character is NOT a saint -- this was a real world reaction. Shows pretending that people aren't people are boring and aren't as interesting.
So killing vampires isn't a sainty thing? There's no justice without compassion, regardless if you're a teenage girl or not.
11:00 No.l idea I tried it on my old roomie and he wasn't intrested.
I the release if this episode got delayed cuz it was gonna come out shortly after the Columbine school shooting
This episode was delayed due to Columbine shootings