**UNDESERVED CONTROVERSY?!** Buffy the Vampire Slayer S3 Ep18 Reaction:FIRST TIME WATCHING "Earshot"
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![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
They call themselves the Scooby Gang, and Xander finding the actual culprit while distracted by food is classic Scooby Doo :)
And SMG is literally Daphne in the later live action SD films, Willow is obviously Velma, the brainy redhead.
But who is Fred? Giles? Is Cordelia Scrappy Doo? Lol
Is Oz the werewolf Scooby Doo?
@@NanciBK Shaggy=Xander, Buffy=Daphne, Willow=Velma, Fred=Giles, Oz=Scooby, Cordelia=Scrappy.
@@Madbandit77 "Let me at 'em. Let me at 'em." Sounds like Cordelia.
Danny Strong who plays Jonathan has been a background character since the unaired Buffy pilot, he’s gone on to great things , writing,directing and producing
He's won 2 Emmys.
@@Tim85-y2q And he will definitely win more this year, Dopesick is the heavy favorite in the limited series categories.
@@fabianhebestreit3240 I couldn't handle Dopesick. I'm from Appalachia and it's just too painful to watch. (It's very good though and deserves all the accolades)
"Undeserved controversy"? I'd say the problem was "Extreme bad timing of air date" This episode was set to air so close to the Columbine shooting that there was no way the network could air it at that time. The episode itself is not that controversial.
Not one person died. Two demons died, only one on-screen.
While school shootings were discussed there was never going to be a school shooting in the ep. Buffy stopped a suicide, not a shooting.
Maybe they were protecting us from re-living the trauma of all those hundreds of school poisonings.😂
Edit: Willow interrogated Jonathan in the episode 'Go Fish' where he confessed to peeing in the pool.
I agree. I don’t really think it was controversial, it was just that there was some very unfortunate real-life stuff that just so happened to coincide with the original desired air date for the episode.
Yeah, this one is understandable. The delay of Graduation Day part II was far more dubious.
@@Tim85-y2q
I think I’ve heard that was delayed but I don’t recall why.
@@zemoxian it was delayed for months because it was scheduled to air just one week after columbine shooting, at a time when school and mass shooting were few and far between.
Angel's dry-as-dust delivery of "I'm a funny guy" cracks me up every single time.
DB actually has a gift for dry understated humor, but he didn't get to show it much as Angel and certainly not before he got his own show.
This was missing probably my favourite moment from this episode: Buffy's smirk when she reads Wesley's mind in the library and discovers he's thinking about Cordelia.
It’s actually really sad that Johnathan, as a background character, FEELS like a background character. It’s like he’s conscious of the fact he’s not as “important” as the characters around him. Because we’ve seen him a lot (Inca Mummy Girl, Go Fish) but always as a minor/unimportant character, and usually being the butt of a joke. Basically… Johnathan just makes me very sad.
Yeah, I often think Jonathan has the most unused potential of any character. There's so much we don't know about him. If I had to pick a character to write myself into as a self-insert fanfic, it would probably be him.
Johnathan is the Stuart Bloom of the Buffyverse!;-
I truly felt for him in The Wish. He was just sitting there minding his on business when Harmony attacts him to dis Cordy and the focus on the scene is on Cordy. Even the purported sympathy of the show ignores him when the attack was more against him than her.
@@dalemundy2279 So true and so unfair 💔 but..I felt that was kinda the point?Meaning he's *such* a loser that _not even the audience_ is allowed to fully empathize with him. As I said..he's like Stuart.🥺
I like what you said about how Buffy trying to read Angel’s mind without his knowledge is a violation. It totally is, but it’s so on brand for what a person her age would do. It honestly highlights for me the most problematic part of their relationship: he’s far too mature for her. Even in life, he was 26 when he was turned. She’s still a kid. She needs at least a couple more years imho. That king of age discrepancy was more common back then. I grew up in a marine town in the ‘90s, and half the girls in my senior class brought adult marine boyfriends to prom. That doesn’t mean it was a good thing, though 😬
It never hit me that Oz’s comments “I just go to the Obits” was probably less ‘funny joke’ and more ‘Sunnydale School paper has an Obit column’. 🤦♂️
Yeah, the joke is that they have enough deaths to require obits.
that's the joke. its a dark joke, but still a joke.
I've always felt like Willow's line of questioning to Jonathon is actually what pushed him over the edge.
Buffy was so ahead of its time. Rewatching season 3, you can see the little moments that showed Faith’s insecurity and disappointment with not being fully included in the Scooby gang. Not that it excuses her actions, but you can see all the little moments that provide a foundation for her to give up on being “good”, and decide to join a side that will accept her and where she feels like she belongs.
I think using the character of Jonathan in this way is incredibly smart writing. He had minor roles in a number of episodes, almost always being the butt of the joke, encouring us the viewer to see him as a minor comic relief character. I think to a certain extent that makes the viewer complicit in his feeling of "no one cares about me, you all think I am an idiot". Brilliatly done!
31:24 "What am I, saint Buffy? He's like 3 feet tall!" "Rip to short guys"
You know, as a shorter dude I appreciate you noticing that. It's such a weirdly shitty thing for Buffy to say and I don't know if I've seen any other reactor notice. Her not being into shorter guys is one thing but teenage me felt like I'd been slapped when one of my (short herself) heroes laughingly states that dating someone like me would make her a "saint".
Anthony Head walking into the tree was unscripted.
It's always been my headcanon that Buffy intentionally maneuvered Giles into the tree. 😁
I was studying music education at college when this episode aired. I wasn't watching Buffy at the time (no tv) but I remember watching the coverage of Columbine in my dorm room. It was one of those "where were you" moments for me. You can tell by watching this episode that it was created before Columbine. First, no one would make a casual joke about school shootings (like Xander's "Who hasn't idly thought about shooting up a school" comment) post Columbine. Second, the clock tower. People rarely thought about school shootings before this, but when they did, they usually thought about the University of Texas shooting back in 1966, which was carried out in a clock tower. In fact there was an episode of X Files that also referenced this. There's definitely some cringy moments in this episode because of all of that, but it's still one of my favorites.
Also the lunch lady thing... it's cartoonish, but I've worked in schools since 2001. I've known a lot of cafeteria staff. You'd be surprised how many of them kind of resent students for making demands on them. Not all of them. Some of the most amazing school staff I've met are cafeteria workers who go above and beyond. But the lunch lady in this episode reminds me of a couple of real people... like who yell at kids for wanting food.
I love that they used Jonathan for this instead of some guest star, using the audience's perception of him as a side character who doesn't do anything important in order to address how it feels to not be the star of your own life.
But that's such crap. If Jonathan wanted to be the hero in his own life, he should have stood up for himself against his bullies. Nobody deserves to be bullied, but you also can't accept that treatment.
Jonathan is the type of character who has been ignored and bullied since grade school. Educated guess here, but we don't see him until high school, after he likely tried to stand up against this treatment in middle school which made it worse so he gave up
The actor that played Jonathan did a great acting job this episode. Fun fact he auctioned for Xander. While he didn’t make it, I am glad he has a reoccurring character. He is also great on Gilmore Girls.
The preview for this episode aired on April 20, 1999, the day of the Columbine Massacre. It was going to air the week after. As incredibly messed up as it seems, school shootings are a regular occurrence nowadays, but they weren't then. I was fourteen, a freshman in high school, and that was the first time I'd ever heard of school shooting. It hit us harder back then because we didn't have to have active shooter drills, we didn't have to learn how to hide under desks like kids today do.
Agreed. I was in high school. Columbine was THE school shooting of the time, another Sandy Hook or Uvalde, except those hadn't happened yet so it was even more horrific. It's hard to overstate what a big deal it was, back in a world where "this can't be happening" things only happened once every 5 years or so rather than every month. I agree with the network postponing airing this episode -- it's a wonderful episode, one of my favorites, but It would have been incredibly tone-deaf and insensitive.
"but they weren't then" - well they where but apparently they where not reported on so much, probably because the number of causalities where in the neighborhood of 1-3 per shooting and not 15 as it was in Columbine. In the 1990:ies alone there where 93 school shootings before Columbine, so Oz wasn't wrong when he said "it's bordering on trendy at this point"
Agreed
I was a senior when it happened (1999-2000) and looking back I feel I got out just in time which is a really sad way to look back. I actually feel lucky we didn't have that type of stress in addition to everything else at that age
Henrik is quite right. There were quite a few school shootings before Columbine - enough that it was already being talked about as a problem. And, some of them did actually get quite a bit of coverage.
But, Columbine felt different. Columbine _was_ different. And, tbh, probably the most frustrating thing about the legacy of Columbine is the way that misdiagnoses about what made it different became the common wisdom about it, about school shootings in general, and about how schools should change to try to prevent them.
Because, the thing is, Columbine _wasn't_ a school shooting. It was a failed school bombing - inspired by Timothy McVeigh and by neo-Nazi ideology. The shooting was their backup plan. But, somehow, the story that got told was about black trench coats, violent video games, and bullied kids, not violent white supremecism.
@@SSGranor this!!! If you watch anything that has survivors in it they all talk about how they were the bullies not the bullied and how much the news twisted it.
The Twilight Zone your thinking of is “ A Penny for your thoughts“ starring the late Dick York
I live in England and the incident at Columbine was huge news all over the world at the time so it was understandable that the network moved the airing of this episode. What's unfortunate now is that there have been so many more incidents in the USA since then that it's just another story on the news, because another incident is almost expected to happen due to these situations become "the norm".
And that those with power to stop/reduce incidents just don't care enough because money is more important than children!
This episode is JUST as relevant in 2022 as it was in 1999. That's the sad beauty of this episode and this show. It's an amazing episode, yet very rooted in reality, which is one of the things that makes Buffy as a supernatural show even greater.
Truth. For the OGs who were kids when this first aired and who’ve watched US school shootings become more and more prevalent it’s disturbing to see younger fans being even a little confused by the level of controversy attached to this ep. The frog in water theory isn’t just a theory.
Joss and all the writers were always hyper-aware of the metaphorical nature of their monsters. Also interesting how the Scoobs’ relationship with the monsters becomes much more nuanced over time as the characters mature.
Why do you guys still have such a school shooter problem?
Its been over 20 years are you ready to try what the rest of us did yet? Because it’s not a problem outside USA anymore.
There are lots of good lines from this episode. My favorite got cut, when Buffy tells Jonathan that sometimes her life sucks beyond the telling. We experience that with her every week but her classmates don't see it.
One of the best episodes, the lines, the iconic scenes, a lot of humor but a deep subject well developed
Know what I always find interesting? Joyce wouldn't stop thinking about having the seggs with Giles, to the point where she was avoiding Buffy to stop her from hearing it.
Giles, on the other hand, never once had it even cross his mind.😂
Oddly enough it's the "controversy" that made me a fan of this show. I had seen the movie back in 1992 and hated every frame of it so when this show came out in 1997 I gave it a hard pass. Then Columbine happened in 1999 and the resulting controversy peaked my curiosity since they yanked this episode. My first episode was 3.20 and I enjoyed it enough to stick around until the season finale. The rest is history....
"So, it's obviously this guy...."
Which means in Buffyverse logic there's NO WAY it's this guy....
Oooh, me too! Well, not the Columbine part. It took me a lot longer to watch this show, but I also saw the movie and refused to watch the show for years because of how bad the movie was.
Yeah me too. I was so looking forward to the movie, a girl named Buffy who killed vampires, that was something we really didn't see back then, a heroine I felt I could really get behind. But that movie was an abomination. I was then aware of the series, wondered how someone would even consider making a series from that movie. Every so often, certain Buffy storylines would be talked about in the media and I still wondered who in their right mind would watch this. Then, maybe 8 years ago, someone who's opinion I valued recommended it to me and I gave it a chance and now love this series. I don't normally like rewatching things but I have watched every episode at least four times now.
@@Spiklething It reaallly gets good after about the 10th viewing or so.
@@Shadowman4710 oh I’m up for that! Am part way through the series again but watching with my daughter who’s never seen it. Unfortunately she’s moved away to university so we rarely have time to watch together and she’s been (nicely) warned not to watch it alone.
Me too, the movie traumatized me, so hopeful that it was going to be something better than it actually turned out to be. It actually put me off wanting to watch the TV series. I only caught it because a work colleague couldn't get it so asked me to record it on VHS. My life then improved .
Funniest thing about the last scene? It wasn't scripted; Anthony Head really did walk into that tree by accident. 🤣
That is amazing, omg 😂😂
TV shows ABSOLUTELY rip each other off.
There's no shame in that.
Putting an entirely different cast or characters in a different context through the same thing is COOL. And it's homage, bc you really can't plagiarise concepts for episodes (or rather, everything humans create is derivative)
Buffy does this all the time to amazing effect.
On Jonathan's situation. I was picked on a great deal worse. I'm nearly 40 and I'm still damaged and my self esteem will never recover. Not through lack of self awareness, but bc the trauma is too deep. I make friends easily, have several social circles I'm welcome in (6? More with "sub-groups" within my gaming community, where I can join any clique and be fine) and am often described as "a social butterfly" (on a training course, a colleague I'd just met approached and complimented me on my public speaking after giving a presentation)
I still experience suicidal ideation most days (I accidentally broadcast this on an open mic once, became an in joke where only a handful know it is also quite a serious issue for me) and isolate myself most of the time bc I can't help but feel like a burden to everyone.
Normal teen angst is universal. Some use it to justify abusing others. Others express themselves and become social outcasts.
Most overcome it and mature into good people.
But for people who were the target for prolonged casual abuse... that trauma lasts a life time.
I feel bad for Jonathan too :-( I love that he's been hanging around in the background for ages - for example, he was the kid sipping on a Big Gulp that Harmony pretended to set Cordelia up with, when they were making fun of her for being with Xander - and now he gets a whole bunch of depth but it's all really sad.
The actor, Danny Strong, originally auditioned for Xander. He's been in things like Mad Men and written a bunch of things like the movie "Recount" about the 2008 presidential election. He seems to be a pretty smart guy and I love his work here.
He was also cordys date imn inca mummy girl
I agree. I think the fact that he had minor roles in a number of episodes, almost always being the butt of the joke adds another layer to this. Like we as the viewer are encouraged to see him as kind of a minor comic relief character and not as his own person with his own pain and his own feelings about these situations. To a certain extent it makes the viewer complicit in his feeling of "no one cares about me, you all think I am an idiot". Such smart writing.
@@schloodie1942I don't think it's smart writing. Knowing what I know about JW from the NY Magazine article, it's a pathetic cry for help from someone who thinks they DESERVE sympathy without giving it back. Xander, Jonathan, and two future characters are avatars of JW, underdogs who think they're owed the center of the universe seat because they're underdogs. That's bullshit because you have to earn good things by doing good things. You might not get a reward, but the good deed is its own reward.
@@Madbandit77 OK wow. First of fuck JW, he is clearly a shitty person, but I think having him in the forefront of every analysis of the show is a mistake. I definitely have problems with the shows view of Xander and what he gets away with, but I don't feel that way about Jonathan.
Now where I really disagree is this: Everyone deserves sympathy! Not like stop what you are doing and pay attention to me kind of sympathy but still. I don't think you need to earn sympathy. But at the end of the day I think Buffy explains the problem perfectly here: "Everyone here is ignoring your pain, because they are too busy dealing with there own".
The other episode where Willow did the interrogation routine (with Jonathan, no less) was Go Fish. :D
Nope. Pretty sure it was Phases, the episode where we found out Oz was a werewolf.
@@brianhegarty2902 Go Fish. Johnathan tells Will he peed in the pool as his revenge against the swim team.
@@brianhegarty2902 That one Xander was doing the interrogation. ;)
@@dennicaid7682 Yes. Apologies. I was wrong. Too lazy to check until now :(
I love that Cordelia speaks her mind. I think Xanders line about thinking about taking out the school was maybe the bigger issue than Jonathan, but either way there's no way this was going to air. I do love the episode, everyone can be lonely.
That line has aged badly (and is super cringey to begin with), but it would have been a simple edit if that was the only issue. As someone who was just starting high school around that time and who remembers the moment of moral panic (for lack of a better term) that was in the air, the was simply no way they could air a show with this subject matter at that time, let alone that very week.
Honestly, I think if Buffy had another season to go in High School that likely would have meant the end of the entire show.
That said, I think it did kind of get a bad rap because it was tagged as the "school shooter" episode, when it actual contains a strong anti-school violence/anti-bullying message.
what xander said isn't dangerous it is just a combination of sarcastic and dramatic...i say things like that a lot...doesn't mean i would ever do them. to be honest the world sucks nowadays because you can't say anything dramatic even as a joke without people being offended or taking it seriously.
Oz is such an INTP lol. I love when we hear his thoughts lmao. This is me all the time when regular conversations are happening around me lol.
To get a little more detailed on Buffy and Faith jealousy also has something to say with weilding power. Faith may be jealous of Buffy for the respect she has, but it's also respect that's earned and means weilding a lot of burden and responsibility. And it's those same themes that Faith is hinting at that Buffy is missing. Faith tries to convince Buffy to break loose of those responsibilities while completing missing the point that it's those qualities that give Buffy the life's, respect, heroism that Faith wants. It gets confused because the power is passed on without any explanation. But Buffy has earned what she has through the decisions she makes. Episodes like prophecy girl, ted.. becoming pt 2 - faith if anything operates as if the world owes her and doesn't have to work for anything. I think when people have an upbringing and trauma without the kind of support that Buffy has its easier to feel as though your a victim of circumstance and avoid taking responsibility for your actions. Buffys outerlife in forms her and keeps her resilent from abusing her power, we've seen what she's like without it: the wish).
Oddly enough this one of my favorite episodes and I'm talking about the previous episode, lol. This episode all about sonder and mattered so much to me when I was younger - not to mention its charmingly hilarious.
So, in one brief, ridiculous moment, Xander Harris, everyones favoritist Scoobie, saved the entire student body... or, at least the ones who were too poor to eat off-campus. Actually, all the Scoobies have their moments, throughout the series. It seems a lot of fans (myself included) forget that also includes Xander. It would be easier to remember if Xander would just grow up, and pull his head out of his--but that would involve growing up... which Xander and everybody else is gradually doing because of the whole being a teenager situation and, thematically speaking, because that's what the show is literally about. Okay Xander, way to embody the essence of the show. (Don't want to shine the spotlight to bright on the Harris boy for this. Buffy did, after all, punch and kick the cafeteria lunch lady, and that folks is premium entertainment).👊
I loved this episode. I've been looking forward to this reaction.
17:50 I love the Twilight Zone! It was the "Penny for Your Thoughts" episode
This wasn't the only thing delayed because of Columbine. The comic book Hellblazer was set to release an issue called "Shoot" about John Constantine investigating a outbreak of school shooting across America. It was to drop a few days after the massacre but they canceled the release. It wasn't until October of 2010 that it was finally published.
Omg I love Angel too. Everyone complains about his back and forth with Buffy but I find it very realistic due to the circumstances they encounter.
Interestin analysis/prediction about Faith. Let's see how right or wrong you are about it
Once again, Zander saves the day.
@@celinelia8127 you are correct, of course.
If that was you on 3x17 with the baby calf edit...I died, thanks🤣 Oz has always been awesome but hearing his existential musings just seals the deal further. Still waters run deep. Also a big fan of interrogator Willow.
The only thing that bothered me was how clumsy the twist was given that Jonathan was planning to murder himself...with a sniper rifle? That's barely possible let alone practical.
07:00 - 07:31 How poetic is that this thing can kinda also be applied to the end of this episode?;-P With Jonathan envying all his schoolmates and Buffy being like:"Oh,trust me,they have a bunch of flaws and problems on their own!!:-P"
14:15 - 14:25 If you were from 2020+ you would be even *MORE* worried/scared by that word!!😬
20:40 - 20:48 🖤
22:23 - 22:36 Fun fact:the 1st time I've watched this episode(in Italian)I immediately guessed it was the cook. And when Buffy said she couldn't even tell if it was a man or a woman I was like:"Are you kidding me?!?It was obviously a woman:IT WAS THE COOK!:-O" 30:50 - 30:52 *I DID!!!* 🤣 FROM THE VERY 1ST MOMENT!!!@O@
24:04 - 24:18 Another Willow moment to remember for later...much..much later....❣
24:40 - 24:43 I would have watched that!!😍I mean..I already watched 22 seasons of"Law&Order-SVU"and I've watched 4"American Pie"movies *ONLY* because Willow was in them,so...❣
26:52 - 26:57 DON'T ASK ME!🖤______🖤
29:57 - 30:03 With _THAT_ kind of gun?!?Man,that's so impractical!!
31:25 - 31:35 🤣🤣🤣
SPOILER
27:39 - 27:42 WEEEEELLLLL........................................😬😬😬😬😬
Yeah, when he was talking around 7:30 I was thinking, "are you sure you haven't watched this episode!?"
YESSS, more Jonathan Frakes edits 🤣
Your reaction to this one was especially entertaining, btw! Always great to hear you thinking out loud
@Thor Reacts
Hmmmm...Thor, I don’t think many of us got where Faith was headed & why, necessarily. We only got small glimpses of past experience. Such as seeing where she was shacked up, some low rent hovel. It was pretty sad, yet the fact that Faith found it acceptable says a lot. Also, Faith talking about all the things about Buffy’s life that she coveted, like her mother, her home, her squad...even her watcher was better. Remember, Faith has pretty much had to learn about all this slaying on her own, practically. No friends to confide in...Think about the fights where she got hurt & had to go back to her “apartment” & mend her cuts & bruises alone. There’s jealousy & there’s real pain, viewing everything her life has been missing has got to mess with her head. PTSD? Faith has mastered burying her pain, making her open to evil forces, like cults. She’s a sad figure who has gone way past redemption. I imagine that she’ll receive it when she’s ready to die to save others. Just a thought, no spoilers 😸
🖤🌹🖤🧛🏻♀️
The difference between Buffy and Faith, is Buffy was raised in comfort, privilege and love, and Faith was raised with every disadvantage. Then Faith starts having purpose and fighting evil and saving lives, and STILL is not truly accepted or supported, by her new "friends" and watchers
Faith definitely grew up with disadvantages. However, once she got to Sunnyvale, I think that Faith is accepted by them. She goes patrolling with Buffy, joins the Scoobies for meetings, she got invited for Christmas at Buffy’s house, etc. If Faith had nowhere to sleep, Buffy would let her in. Giles too. Willow doesn’t get along with Faith but Faith isn’t entitled to be friends with all of Buffy’s friends.
@@svetlanagrabar1364 She *doesn't* get invited to all the meetings. She was invited to Xmas only after Joyce *made* Buffy invite her. And actually none of them gave her a place to stay, hence why she's in a gross motel with a sleezy manager, and can't afford it. Buffy witnesses all of that, so they're aware.
@@svetlanagrabar1364 She's included in the group, but she has no family. She's a 16 year old girl with no one concerned for her safety or wellbeing.
Well, not *every* disadvantage.
Buffy certainly has more support than Faith, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say she has every advantage. For the first couple seasons at least, she's effectively been abandoned by her father, considered a delinquent, if not an outright criminal, by every adult in her life other than Giles, including her own mother and loses most of what she does have at the end of season 2,
There's definitely a contrast between them, but at least part of that comes from Buffy's resolve to fight through adversity rather than surrender to it.
You don't have to be anxious about anyone dying in this show from here on. It is only sunshine and rainbows, no one is in danger, nothing will go wrong. Feel better now? 😁
I remember when this episode aired, it actually aired out of order so we had to wait a while until after the season had concluded to watch it because the network was afraid to air it so soon after Columbine. Sadly, the problem of school shootings hasn't changed and actually gotten worse in the over 20 years when this episode aired. I think the lunch lady is a subtle commentary on shootings too because at the time there were a lot postal workers who shot up their workplaces due to the stress, that is where the saying "gone postal" came from if I am not mistaken...Between 1986 and 2011, workplace shootings happened roughly twice per year, with an average of 1.18 people killed per year according to an ASIS Foundation study
LIKE if you’re here mainly to see Thor’s reaction to Buffy finding out about her mom and Giles 😉
That Othello scene I think talks about Faith.
I heard that Anthony Stewart head improvised him bumping into the tree😁
The episode ends in total farce with the sight gag of a comically over-sized box of rat poison because that's what you did on TV in 1999/2000 when your episode was focused mainly on a possible school shooter.
SMG objected the decision at the time not to show it as it was not actually about a shooting, but the network decided it was too close, especially with Xander mentioning shooting people.
I love the way Oz's few words actually hide very deep philosophical thoughts and the way there is absolutely no difference between what Cordelia thinks and what she says, she really does have no filter.
Johnathan is one of the background characters that appears from time to time, like Larry. the gay sportsman, or Harmony, who I think is the only one of the 'Cordettes' named on-screen.
I don't know what to really feel about this episode (I think I'll need to watch it in full on patreon). From the highlights it just feels like a mix of everything. I feel like it had potential to be more serious but then they end it with a caricature "villain" like the lunch lady... "You come in here and you eat and you eat"...I mean, YES! haha...I dunno, it just felt a bit random. I do like the discussion between Buffy and Jonathan too and I do think that those thoughts of everyone having it easier than you is an important theme. I definitely sympathise with Jonathan because high-school tends to create cliques so it's easy to feel left out. I think it's important to look take notice and if you see someone struggling then help them of course, but I also think we're all responsible for ourselves in the end. It's not Buffy's fault or your fault for not remembering Jonathan. In the end we're all looking for genuine connection and we all struggle with that at a certain point and it's not something you can force.
As for Buffy's ability to hear people's thoughts...it's definitely not a power I'd want either. I've been learning to become more conscious of my thoughts and once you actually start paying attention, you realise how much you actually think during the day. Some of those thoughts sound like word vomit in the heat of the moment and some thoughts are just meaningless, but if other's could hear them, it's so easy to take it personally and words can stick with you. I do find it hilarious how your mind immediately jumps to strategy every time haha. Buffy can hear thoughts...GET THE MAYOR!...This is Buffy not "24", Thor! 😂
PS: It made my day to hear you appreciate Bangel (even though they were not your first or second choice! lol). Isn't Angel such a sweetheart though? "In 243 years, I've loved exactly one person" 😍- To me it's obvious that Angel only loves Buffy, but I do understand her doubts after the Faith thing. The Bangel relationship really humanises Buffy for me and I love that. Yes, Angel was "acting" but the visual of that still hurts. I honestly don't think I could date an actor for that reason. During every reaction to Buffy getting jealous I kept thinking of that show that shall not be named, AND "Thor's too mature for this" hahaha.
This actually reminds me of a show that would be fun to see you react to. It's not nearly as deep as Buffy, just stupid fun, but give True Blood a try. It's got vampires *and* a girl who is telepathic. Like, all the time, not just temporarily.
For me True Blood was entertaining... but worth watching a maximum of twice.
With Buffy on the other hand, there is no maximum number of times that it's worth watching.
Thor, thanks for this reaction, and the collaboration on the previous episode. This one ranks in my personal top ten, so you have amazement yet to come (no spoilers, just sayin'). The end of the episode is one of the best closing lines of all, though.
When I first saw this, I sort of made no sense, but I later learned that it was in fact due to Columbine. They had to play this one out of order due to actual bad stuff that happened then.
“Undeserved”? What? There had JUST BEEN A MASS SHOOTING!!!!!! Hopefully this is the reactor being young & not something else.
Trilogy The Hobbit Extended Edition Of The Adventures Of Bilbo Baggin:
(1) An Unexpected Journey Extended Edition
(2) The Desolation Of Smaug Extended Edition
(3) The Battle Five Armie Extended Edition
unfortunately buffy isn't choosing to listen to people...she just does.
also i think the pink and black t-shirt willow wears in this episode is so awesome...it's cool but also suggestive...i'm sure people get the dirty joke.
Two of my favorite quotes (paraphrased) on happiness (sorry I can't remember who said them):
1) It would be fine if we were content being happy, but we want to be happier than others. Which is almost always impossible because we perceive them to be happier than they are.
2) It is difficult to find happiness within ourselves and impossible to find it elsewhere.
Sorry if I missed you mentioning this, but are you going to watch "Angel" alongside "Buffy", when the time comes?
you said at the end that willow and oz still kind of get along after what happened but they show no signs of having lingering issues after what happened with xander. i think you have not fogiven/gotten over it but they have. its fine that they arent your fave couple anymore but i think you are projecting your own issues with the situation onto oz when he has clearly forgiven her and moved on.
If you enjoy the concept of mindreading as a useful tool, and wanna try other vampire/supernatural shows one day you should definitely try True Blood. The main female character is a telepath, though it's more of an adult/HBO series. Definitely worth it though! and there's some Buffy references lol.
It wasn’t particularly controversial. It was just not aired when it was originally scheduled. It was the right call. Obviously school shootings were a thing before or else the things in this episode would make no sense. But it’s hard to overstate how much Columbine changed the landscape of the phenomenon. It would have been the height of callousness to air this right after Columbine.
I think it’s a great episode, and unfortunately it was unsettlingly timely for the era. I also always thought it was great to realize that they had this group of regular background characters and to see one of them come in for a bigger role. I also didn’t really pick up on him on first watch when it was airing, so it was always fascinating to watch the earlier episodes and see him continually popping up.
"Great reaction" I don't think it's your place to decide that.
Most people know the backstory to the episode, but what I don't know was if the network was always going to eventually air it or did they have to be talked into it?
They always were going to air it as far as I remember they just wanted to wait awhile for things to calm down.
From Oz comment it's pretty clear that US school shootings already was a trope by the time they were filming the episode but I don't think there was one every week back then so it made sense to wait a bit to not air it too closely.
@@boretrk Not one per week (the frequency and the number of casualties per "incident" have increased from year to year) but in the 1990:ies alone there had been 93 school shootings before Columbine.
@@boretrk I know that. I was asking if the networks planned on airing it at a later date or just skipping it altogether before someone changed their minds. I wasn't sure about that. The reason they didn't air it to begin with, though is practically common knowledge to most Buffy fans.
@@Buffy8Fan The Notorious SMG (yes, she should be called that) lobbied for the episode to air, but the network executives didn't want to take the risk. Recently, after the Uvalde school massacre, she helped get new school tables for the school via a fundraiser.
What happened to episode 17? Also, you forgot to put this in the Buffy playlist 😁
Yeah, Thor explains in the intro where the ep17 reaction is and provided a link in the description, it is over on Alley Box's channel.
are you talking about twilight zone episode called a penny for your thoughts?
yes TZ season 2 episode 16 was about mind reading
Every time I see Jonathan Frakes…. Lmao
Lame episode. Almost season 1 material.
Couple things...the stunt woman for the lunch lady is hilarious!! It's so glaringly obvious the stunt lady is 200 pounds lighter lol
And on the serious side, as others have mentioned there is a real life story with this episode. I'm pretty sure this was filmed before Columbine happened but it was going to air shortly after it did happen (it got pushed back). Glad to say but school shootings weren't really a thing back then or as frequent as they have unfortunately become over the last 20 years. This topic has sadly become more relevant instead of less. Just my 2 cents.....
Edit: No shade dude, just trying to give perspective. And I love that Cordelia just speaks her mind
Please watch the wolfwalkers☺ It's a very cool movie
I didn't like this little arc. Angel literally lost his soul getting with Buffy. It's a curse and that only can happen one way. Find true love and happiness. Not have a casual fling, not pretend to love, nothing but the real deal can do it. The fact that he turned into Angelus is a proof beyond anything else that his love for her is real.
@@celinelia8127 It's not the bad guys being idiots here. It's *Buffy*. She spends half the episode worrying about how Angel is feeling, even tries to use her power to see what's on his mind.... all over something she already knows the answer to. He wouldn't have lost his soul if he didn't love her, absolutely.
You should check out the movie blade
they kinda cheated with the high powered rifle, i dont think Jonathan could have shot himself with it
Sadly, it can be managed. Shotguns have been used in the past. Stock on the floor, barrel in the mouth, there are ways to manipulate the trigger. I hope nobody here is tempted to do it.
Actually.... Bye!
you either have authority or you don't.giles has earned his.(oh now i remember!giles!!twice!?you are my hero man!).
Stay Puft🤣
The plot of someone dying when the last thing you said was hurtful is sort of the reverse of the end of season 2, where Angel had just come back from the dark side but Buffy had to kill him.
I can’t be the only one that heard the voice of a woman threatened to kill the entire student body in the cafeteria. The show was successful in misleading the viewer to believe it was a potential school shooter being that a historical “school shooting” happened years before.🤷♀️
Watch Epic and How To Train Your Dragon, please Thor! You are awesome!!
i feel bad for jonathan. hes been treated poorly in his background role for the whole show. im glad she saved him. i wish she could have been able to stay and talk with him more instead of needing to go save the day more. i get why they didnt air this at the time. i was in high school when columbine happened and school shootings were a new thing and a huge huge deal. it was shocking and tragic and no one was used to it the way we shouldnt be now.
ther4 was no controversy for the sake of controversy it just had to do with the timing. It’s very standard for such things in tv to get moved across most eras if they are close enough to some kind of tragedy.
Am I the only one who was certain the killer would end up being the popular basketball player who was introduced at the beginning? It would have been an interesting twist.
I love this episode so much. Buffy's speech to Jonathan is exactly what I needed to hear when I was in high school.
I was wondering where episode 17 was lol I thought I missed something and apparently I did. Going to go watch that now.
where is it?
@@MooniK55 th-cam.com/video/YAtCOFyFkbg/w-d-xo.html
Thor put the link in the description and mentioned that in the intro.
Isnt it crazy to think that when they made this episode, Columbine hadnt happened yet. I miss those pre 9/11 pre fear days..
@@celinelia8127 You dont know how old i am lol. And 9/11 was after Columbine.
@@celinelia8127 And when you learn about history, you can understand when shit started to go down. Things havent gotten any better since then. Columbine was an extra unusual event back then. It isnt nowadays.
2 episodes this week was awesome! I hope you do end up doing another live stream. Congrats on the 30k you deserve it!
Love it!
omg i just realized the prom ep is coming soon 0.0 ...
I mean besides the fact that he brought a huge ass rifle to kill himself with making no sense…🤷🏻♀️
And there are ways to make it work. It has been done in the real world.
I need the link to episode 17 please
Go to alley box's channel to see it
@@Olivetree80 oooh! That Alley ok. you should still add a link because people might not know what Alley you mean if they only follow you 🙂
@@ElisaH_DarklyiShine thanks. i had no idea who Alley is
This episode is way better than a tail.
There is no link to Allie's channel and ep 17 in the description.
He may have added it later, it is there now.
The only thing I didn't like about the episode is Jonathan's gun.
I know they had to make it a rifle so the audience would think he's a school shooter...
But who's going to commit suicide with a rifle? Makes no sense to me.
Hmm. Yeah. I wonder if they could have handled that a little better. There must be guns that would have been more believable as a method of suicide that also would have been believable as a murder weapon.
@@smashbrandiscootch719 But why did he attach the sights? I never understood that part.
@@knowledge-girl Why did he attach the sights? He didn’t want to miss, duh…😏
A rifle is commonly used for that purpose because that's what households have laying around.
In a study from 1988 they found out that a rifle was used in 20% of the suicides in the US.
3x17.
Alley Box's channel is linked at the very top of my Channel.
Every time I watch the episode I wonder how Jonathan could have killed himself. The barrel of the gun is way too long for him to be able to hold it to his head. Or do I have a misconception?
Perhaps he didn't think that far and this was the only rifle that he had easy access to.
Brace on the floor, barrel in mouth, and there a ways to manipulate the trigger - for example, put a pen through the trigger guard, step on it, or otherwise attach something to the trigger that can be pressed down. Shotguns have been used similarly. Very disturbing. :(
No 3x17 ?
@@evatesche thank you