Tallinn - It's All About Positioning
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- I feel Tallinn gets a much worse rep than it deserves, mostly because people play it wrong. It's an AP assassin that has a filthy stealthradar, and when played correctly can absolutely turn games around.
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Sorry about the quiet voice, gf has a super early morning tomorrow and didn't wanna wake her up.
Discord: discord.gg/Flamu
Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu
Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/
Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz
rad lad
Though you are so chilled due to CC no more on your shoulders. Sure that’s what made it aching in the first place 🤓
This quiet voice is actually a good sleeping aid.
Did we hear correctly that they are taking away your CC account, which you no doubt spent thousands and thousands of hours grinding?
@@metwo1492 took. Not taking.
your commentaries are: relaxing ,insightful and entertaining; I always look forward to them.
I call him Prof. Flamu without irony. He's a master at this craft.
I agree!!!
Me 2
Best WOWs commentaries by far
"Nothing spicy today"
Continues to rant on stealth radar.
Good ol flolo yes?
Is ranting on stealth radar controversal? Did i miss something?
@@janniszimbalski6652 No but it gets on peoples nerves when weegee cant keep their shit consistent.
"Not a lot in terms of damage..."
*Has killed literally half the team*
Me: "I somehow don't really think anyone would ever nay-say this result..."
1:11 "some people think that because its short, its not powerful, but that is a big mistake" 😔
Was he talking about himself?
This game was literally flamu fighting against his own team, the more he kills, faster his team suicide
A normal game then.
Stop killing the enemy then!!!1eleven :D
"Tallinn does not have a heal, since it is a T8 cruiser, and not a premium"
*Cries in Mainz*
its german. germans can't have nice things in a russian game
Prinz Eugen with heal consumable: "Am I a joke to you all??"
Hey, Mainz has overpowered firepower
@@Dcarp7 the fact that a Nürnberg is usually a bigger threat than a Prinz, yes she is sadly joke.
People cry in Mainz nowadays ? interesting.
To be fair to DDs YOLOing: As we still don't get any class-specific XP bonus for scouting in a DD, there's a certain pressure to do damage (or to cap or decap even though you know it'll be sketchy).
Otherwise you do 100k spotting in a T7 DD in a T9 battle but none of your torps hit anything and so even though you did everything right and helped your team win, you are second to last.
Ask me how I know...
If this is your actual thought process during most games, without exaggeration, that’s amazing situational awareness
If you ever watch his streams, when he plays a ship someone requests a "how-to" on, he will do the commentary pretty much exactly like this. For myself, those are the best parts of his streams (although the memery and shittalking is sometimes quite enjoyable as well).
4:11 "Dodges the vast majority of my shells"...
Fine if all of them is a vast Majority.
Jingles Sydrome strikes again
I have never seen a better WOWS video than this. Great explaining, all crystal clear. You gained a sub there man, keep them coming!
Great vid as per usual (judging from the start), can you do a Nelson tho..
We need a nelson and hood review
Yes please do nelson
How hard is it to play Nelson, you just play like a thunderer. Sit in the back and burn em' till they sink.
@@whellin9007 its wonky to play against sinop, nose overmatch :(
you go kite in the Nelson, not bow in considering gigantic 26mm nose while the 26mm stern is actually quite small so you can tank with your 32mm mid section.
I rarely even play the game anymore, but still love watching your videos. Thanks for the great videos!
Yup, it's my baby Vladivostok, my nose in Brindisi, great ship, you really did it justice here well done! Most of my games go this way, not a lot of damage, but super effective cash outs on poor fools.
Tallinn masterclass. I like Tallinn but I tend to get too aggressive in her. And get myself blapped from the side.
is probably the best tier 8 cruiser you can brawl with, i have had a 90% win rate with it, as long as you play aggressive then you can survive long enough to get close to BBs and torp them to death, bully DDs and citadelle any other cruiser.
i only had problems with BBs that play secondaries and alway stay away from any close engagement and CV are just OP, you can only sink them if the player is stupid enough to get close to you
"ultimately, dds win games" the quotable Flamu
Imagine if people would only play this thing like a Chapayev with strong AP and not like a hipper. It would be such a huge threat.
As the player with the second highest PR and WR in Tallinn on EU, play it like a Hipper with radar, and load He only for DD's or when you spot someone who just dcp'd. It plays best being hyper aggressive around caps. AA is also fantastic for a tier 8, and you will piss off CV's if you spec into it.
Dafuq? Tallinn has almost nothing in common with Chapayev though aside from 12km radar. Chapayev's strength is her high HE DPM and huge range, Tallinn has neither of these.
@@ShawFujikawa Tallinn has more range than Chapayev though? Chapayev's main strength is her completely busted stealth radar, there are many other long range HE spammers so she's not unique in this aspect.
Admiral hipster got HE pen easy mode but lack HE alpha mate,maybe u should watch yuro hipper vid?
7:23 I agree, carrier spotting is indeed bitch frustrating
Flamu: the catcher of throws
@Flamu: The thumbnail is far too sexy for TH-cam!
In short, Tallinn is an overbuffed Hipper, which has already has decent AP
sounds about right
With radar as well
with less armor and much more clumsy, who would have thought
With less armor, trash dispersion, poor reload, poor HE DPM.
Yeah sounds about right.
In short, you're wrong. She just has better AP pen and velocity (worse dispersion tho). Rest is worse.
@@gusp6612 Hipper armor is trash, the turtleback isn't thick enough and the rest is just meh. Hipster also has only 8 guns for the same HE damage, with 109k HE DPM, Tallinn HE DPM is 138k. AP dpm is the same. Tallinn also happens to have a radar, stealth radar at that, and better AA. So Hipper basically has slightly better dispersion but for 8 guns, makes no difference as Tallinn will still score more hits only due to the fact that it has 4 more guns..
So, where are these drawbacks you mentioned since it looks like, that none of them actually exist?
I’m my opinion flamu is the second best wows TH-camr behind sea lord Mountbatten
6:01 'unscratched' is also acceptable.
Good vid Flolo dropped the ball in the end not going over your build though. Did I miss your cruiser commander rework vid? I've seen the new BB and DD commander vids.
He goes over the build in the middle somewhere. It's just standard recommended stuff with the addition of RPF;
so PM-1, PT-2, AR-3, conceal-4, rpf-4; that's 14 then add EM-2 and (extra consumable)-3 for 19 and IDK else
Tallinn is an amazing cruiser, if you ignore what comes next
Petro?
It's more that Tallinn plays somewhat differently than Riga and Petro, where Riga and Petro are similar.
@M BB is it tho? Besides the AP, it's worse than Hipper in every regards.
Flamu posting a video called Tallinn - instant call to watch it when you are actually your self from Tallinn :)
Flamu, are you really suggesting that the Tallinn gets underrated? Its a Hipper that got the full "Sekrit documents" treatment and it pisses me off.
I love the Hipper. I am weird, I know, but I really, really like that ship and I could so some work with it from time to time. But often you just feel hold back because it is lacking in a lot of soft stats. And then you see this being released...
This one, oh boy do I dislike this one. Those 180mm turrets where without a doubt, the single worst armament put on any WW2 era cruiser. Not only where the turrets so terrible that practical RoF was around two salvo's per minute, and with three guns placed so close to each other, dispersion because of mutual interference must have been bad, but the guns themselves where also terrible. They did not achieve the intended 1000 mps muzzle velocity. Then two different versions of those 180mm guns Pattern 1932 existed. The shallow grooved ones where an utter joke with a barrel service life of less than 100 shells. Most 203mm guns could fire several hundred shells before those barrels where worn out. Battleship grade guns even outlasted those 180mm guns. Then the improved deep groove 180mm Pattern 1932 guns, required separate ammunition, thus creating a logistic nightmare. That however didn't fix any of the other issues.
These guns get completely outclassed by the 203mm SK C/34 guns of the Hipper in muzzle velocity, weight of shell, weight of explosive content in the shell, RoF, turret design, penetration, accuracy and barrel life. But Sekrit documents tovarish...
Rant over. 😅
"Who had radar?" intensifies!
It might be an unpopular opinion but I think, overall, the new Russian cruisers are good for the overall gameplay (with the exception of being able to stealth radar). They have good AP but relatively weak HE, so flanking can be significantly more rewarding compared to HE spamming at nose-in ships. They have weak long-range dispersion so players are rewarded if they getting close. Yes, they do seem to overperform other cruisers if played well, but compared to other decisions WG made in the last year, the introduction of this line is actually one of the better ones.
This, I agree with most of the things you said but any other cruisers can perform as well when they are played correctly
@@danh7411 Thanks. What I mean is, for example, how much better Tallin is compared to Hipper... Powercreep is real
@@mingmiao364 nah,
Tallin is a Hipper that trades HE, tankiness, concealment, accuracy, maneuverability, literally everything for AP and 6km very good hydro for a quite weak 12km 15s radar
Still waiting for the Cruiser captain build guide, and you don't even show the build here :(
same...
He mentioned at the start its a concealment + rpf build, not hard to figure out the rest. He also mentions PT and AR at the end with a possible EL so... very not hard to figure out lol.
That Kagero getting 1.8k base xp while loosing must have been very annoyed by you ^^
They are good Kagero player
Me: What’s a carry??
Flamu: hold my whiskey
YOLOboat mindset might decrease a bit if WG would actually reward tiny ships for fucking spotting...
Going though Talin right now. Haven't thought about using rpf, thanks for advice.
The Kagero was second for base XP, and he lost. That is a performance.
Poetry in motion! Magnificent game :)
Considering physics and some basic ship knowledge Tallinn makes no sense. How can this thing carry so many guns with this pen on a Hipper hull. If you watch Drachinifels vids he explains really good what it needs to swap between tripple turrets and a twin with a higher caliber. The guns are way to big to even fit in that hull + with that pen each barrel must way close to the 20cm guns so even if the somehow squeeze that huge barbet and reaload mech. in the hull the ship would be stupid unstable and not that fast. Some ships needed extensive planning like the Scharnhorsts or Mogamis to swap the tripples for larger twins, but soviet engineering can do that with a hull from another nation they knew nothing about with guns never meant for that ship and their highly limited knowledge about shipbuilding (they bought that hipperhull to get some of that knowledge in the first place).
irl this guns operate very poorly and the reload was astrocious but wait, realism in the same with hp pool?
@@danh7411 Saying irl isnt so much of an argument for warships for sure, but if they create themselfes some fantasy ships they at least should look to make them somewhat reasonable. Instead we got these soviet navy out of their dreams that only would work with allot of fantasy.
@@strixaluco7423 then we have Georgia that some how go 40knots, we have the Ohio which some how can turn her super heavy 457mm turrets in 30s, we have DFAA that with a click somehow improve your AA, we have MBRB that some how double reload speed with a click
Realism isn't really exist in WoWS
Beware of the american 200meter stealth radar lol
Great video, enjoy watching your tactics towards the enemy.
Make a video about Cruisers Commander skill please!
Can you show Edinburgh? I’m having a bit of problem with positioning and countering radar cruisers. Nice vid
Flamu: "I have to kill the Ranger, because it's resetting my Monarch."
Me thinking: "Sure, why should it be possible for the AA of a Tier 8 BB to kill the enemy Tier 6 aircraft, before they are able to attack?!"
Does he have a video over NC, if so probably not after the captain rework right?
Best ship for brawls! DDs? hydro+radar - they get deleted!
Cruisers? Ap + pen angles are too strong and torp angles are good - they get demolished!
BBs? Armor that holds up for a while and 5x17k torps - BBs get yolo blabbed except Tipritzes - those you kyte on rather short range, so their torps are useless and they can not get all guns on you (if they show broadside ur ap teaches them not to)
AA is ok against T8 cvs and if you dont bother for the caps and go straight for them, the sky vermint gets extinguished.
i really, really do like this ship, but funny enough it's rather unpopular and people seem to think its bad^^
dude please bring Tallin into 1v1 brawl, would love to blast you kek
This really needs to be a "how to play Tallin when uptiered". It does fine when top, but against 9s and especially 10s it is roouuugh.
You say that like that isn't how it should be. A T8 going against T9s should be at a notable disadvantage, and against T10s should be almost completely outclassed, with player skill being the only thing to save you.
I personally haven't found major issues with it. It does reasonably well against cruiser fire. It pops when under sustained BB fire, but so does every cruiser that's not a Moskva, Petro, or supercruiser.
Uptiered means facing upper tiers. Not being upper tier.
Please think about using Sakkijavren Polkka as your channel intro! It’d so ironic since WG is Russian and you are Finnish
German ships: We have superior engineering
Soviet ship: Haha Russian bias go brrrr
Tallinn is probably better than Hipper but it isn’t head and shoulders above it
@@b-17gflyingfortress6 Idk yet I got Mainz in a crate but haven't grinded to Tallin yet, but I'm almost there :)
Hipper is better than Tallin
(tho both are weak sooooo)
@@b-17gflyingfortress6 Mainz and Tallin are both OP, but they require different playstyle to be effective
-Mainz is mainly dmg farmer with its absurd DPM (especially AP), but it is very squishy, so you either sit behind an island or open water at very long-range (occasionally you can ambush someone since AP is excellent)
-Tallinn is an ambusher. You can sail around and not be spotted (provided no CV) and basically stalk your enemy, wait until it turns broadside and rain hell, or simply open water gunboat at the range also works (but it is not the most effective at that role.) + DD counter potential is huge - excellent concealment, soviet stealth radar, german hydro.
@@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835 Tallin doesn't have German hydro and she's a very bad choice for DD hunting cause astrocious HE DPM
More commentary like these would be awesome
heh this ship just came out on azur lane
I think the Nürnberg actually made the right call. Nürnberg is fairly squishy and getting killed would reduce his Damage far more then the island did. At least he was there to fire on kagero as well. He overall played cautios but shot when he knew the risk of getting blapped was low.
Hey flamu will you do a cruiser guide for captain skills ??
I'm in a weird relationship with Tallinn. My winrate in her is well above average (68% in 35 battles), but I disliked playing this ship so much that I sold her and freeXPed my way to Riga lol. Low speed, poor maneuverability, weak armour, bad DPM make her super uncomfortable to play against T10 for me.
Same, Tallinn just feels really inflexible as a ship. Riga and Petropavlovsk punish mistakes really hard but they don't completely depend on mistakes to excel like Tallinn does.
The games like the one Flamu got here where nobody respects the AP/radar and constantly give broadside are once every hundred games and in the other 99 while you might have some high moments you're mostly just stuck feeling at least one of those weaknesses at any given point. She's probably not _weak_ exactly, but if you get even moderately unlucky with her for too many games it's not surprising that people can feel like she is.
Are there really T8 cruisers that are "comfortable" to play with against T10, though? Sure, some handle uptiering a little bit better than others, but in general, you just blow up in any T8 when a random T10 BB with deadeye takes a good look at you. Maybe those, that you are by default forced to play staying concealed all the time, like Edin, Cleve, Chapa. Balti is a great T8, but in a T10 match you are like a dude in a wedding reception that forgot to bring his pants.
@@tumppu1975 Charles Martel, Chapaev, Mogami are great regardless of matchmaking imo. They have high DPM and other things like maneuverability/concealement/stealth radar (Tallinn has it too but it's nowhere near as good as Chapaev's) that make them strong even when uptiered.
18 sec radar with 12 sec reload, so you would most likely get 2 salvo out. more often than not it's not going to kill anything in good health, especially in 10-12km. It's a good for surprised ambush but nothing too crazy. I've be more worry about Cleveland's radar than Tallinn's radar in a DD, whose reload are fast and the guns reload faster.
but muh stealth radar, not like Baltimore also have stealth radar but oh well, Flamu and his Russian biased opinion
Videos like these are so helpful. Thanks!
Flamu needs to buff his volume, cant hear him.
You didn't read his pinned comment.
one of best replay how to play great WoWs. Thanks Flamu!
Where did you get the camo? I like it
It's from the early access Soviet event, if you can't find it in the Exterior tab, you probably can't get it anymore
It's RDF. There is a difference between position and direction.
Gone all out on torpedoes, Cap skills + equipement for the brawl. So no more stealth radar but working quite good for this type of battle solo. Satisfying being able to torp a few DDs now :)
What's the mode that outlines ships like that? Never seen anything like that before.
The sea is quite quiet, this morning.
Great game, Flamu!
I love how every feature about Russian ships is either "Most op for the tier"
Ridicilously accurate
Incredible concealment
Amazing manouverability.
And this is just further proven ingame. Wargaming needs a damn reform.
Ridiculous accuracy? Tallin has the worst possible dispersion formular out of all cruisers.
Incredible concealment? Tallin literally has 300m worst concealment than Hipper.
Amazing maneuverability? Dude how the hell is 900m turning circle amazing? All of the Russian ships have trash tier maneuverability.
@@AndreiSemenov-d6u ikr? But Muh Flamu always right.
@@AndreiSemenov-d6u Im not surprised a ruski feels this way, Stalin is in your brain anyway.
I never spoke about Tallinn specifically but i have noticed that whenever i am against a russian ship i can almost never penetrate let alone citadel them. Only MAYBE if they show me 100% broadside will i get a cit or two but thats it.
A very slightly angled tallinn has ricochet Yammy, montana, GK and even thunderer AP shells which has left me infuriated to say the least, its the same for the other ruski cruisers. Their armor is absolutely ridiculous.
And what do you mean no one ever mentions the other ships you noted? People (Myself included) have pure hatred for FRD and Kleber. Georgia is kind of meh right now. Bourgogne is a ship i almost never see in games so no reason to complain there tbh.
@@danh7411 Like i responded to the other guy, i didnt speak about tallinn specifically however im literally watching a video of how busted Tallinn is and you're here trying to prove me wrong? No buddy. Get that stalinium stick out of your ass.
Russian ships in general are incredibly strong at higher tiers. Very quick rudder shift, super quick turret turn, stupidly good armor considering i cant even pen a slightly angled cruiser in a Yammy, thundere, monty or republique.
Ahh, I see your problem, git gudder then.
flamuBS :mega: ackshually you are wrong and tallinn is bad cause of the low HE DPM, i read that on reddit so it must be true
+ extremly poor accuracy far range
+ 900m turning circle so you're easier to explode than Hippers
+ only 15s radar
+ very bad HE DPM
+ have to rely on broadsides to do damage, whenever you meet people with a brain, you deal next to 0 damage
tks for sharing this.... a well played tallin is a very tanky and hard to deal with
It's All about NOT Spending 1 Cent on this Outrageous company Wargaming!
Hey Flamu when will you be releasing your cruiser build video?
Always baffles me when idiots say that the Russian stealth radar is okey just because it's only 15s. Doesn't matter, it could be 1s, it still reveals the position of the DD without it having any counterplay.
Always baffles me when nobody mentions Baltimore's stealth radar but always give credits to the Russians
Godsend .. I am almost at Riga and still didnt figure out how to play this thing effectively :D
Are the commander skills and build described in the video?
this i what i need, i grinding petro right now for competitive
Does that radio location work well for donskoi and nevski? Or should they keep more distance for worse armor?
very nice played
could you do dedicated cruiser build for new commander rework? ive just been sticking what i know before but would love to see your recommendations
Master Class
very good play
Nice video m8. I'd also like to see the teams at start, please.
how do you get the sea reflection like that O.o
Not that much in terms of damage, I'm so absolutely ridiculously bad at this game, if it get 80 to 100k I'm feeling pretty darn good... The crazy thing is how often I'm in the top half...
7:23 Did i hear "Bitch"? 🤣
looks extremely op like all sov ships. Best this improved that and aa and this and that.... citadel BBs and feels like 100% fire chance..
Yes, considering Tallin is weak af, she is like all sov ships
@@danh7411 sov ships are weak? o.O they all have improved stuff I didn't even know existed.
@@rosalina2938
Ye
France ships have improved reload when you click a consumable, idk that existed?
Georgia has improved speed, reaching unthinkable speed with just 1 consumable, idk that existed?
UK BBs have dry dock on sea, idk that existed?
Ohio can turn her super heavy 457mm turrets in 30s, idk physics allow that?
@@danh7411 yea mostly consumables and those are differences ships
but sov ships... I mean just take kremlin.
best armour, best hp, strongest deck, immune to HE spam, immune to AP if not broadside, strong AA if it is alive, the best most op absolute garbage captain that should not even be in the game available, fastest dmg con, fast turrets, shells that pen everything and overmatch most, defy physics and are faster than any other shells. I had a game once where 5 people fought a single kremlin and he was just laughing on how little we could do... 80% nonpens and ricochets. only downside... AA dies quick xD even petro is a monster if you are not spamming HE from 20 km away. every time I face sov ships I always notice they take less dmg than others and do more than most....Just yesterday I lost a rekord (for me) because I could not oneshot a moskva with my ohio that was 12 km away and fully broadside and my shots hid perfectly......
Also always fire on first HE shell ALWAYS
(btw I don't say other broken ships don't exist.. its just with sov ships its so obvious)
@@rosalina2938 yes I won't argue how tanky Kremlin and Petropavlovsk are for their class but they traded that with everything else
Their guns can't hit shits, both are clumsy, both have average AA, both have average firepower (until an idiot show up full broadside at close range of course) and specifically for Petro, extremely bad HE DPM, slow turret traverse, short radar. I only see balanced average ships.
As for the Moskva you fought, maybe bad RNG idk, I have no problem nuking that citadel city even at max range.
Looking forward to hearing about new ships...
No shit, Flamu. You're making it sound like not every single surface ship is all about positioning.
Should I play on 240 144 or 60 fps?
Why should you choose less if youre pc and screen is capable of supporting 240...
@@arianmotahamelian1684 I've heard the game isn't properly optimised for high refresh rates
@@LuluTwoEleven maybe idk but i think i would have felt it somehow if the game had problems with high fps. I play since 2015
@@arianmotahamelian1684 you get headache at 120fps+ because movement of everything looks weird
What I don't understand about this ship is if it has a Hipper hull why it's turning much worse.
Russian trait
Zao just got its 203mm undisputed pen record dumpster fired by slav 180mm railguns 2 tiers lower, what even lol.
Tallinn 180mm averages over 75mm more pen at all ranges than Hinden/Hipper AP, just HILARIOUS.
As if anyone would consider Zao or Hinden have good pen but ok
@@danh7411
I can agree with Hinden having anemic pen.
But Zao has the highest 203mm pen in the game and is still unbroken for 4-5 years, it may not have DMs or Russian CA pen angles, but it gets destroyer dispersion instead.
It was only recently beaten on its long range pen by italian 203mm with their better airdrag values, and now Tallinn 0 airdrag buff 180mm which has higher pen at all ranges other than point blank.
@@la_potat6065 sure, higher pen ya da ya da only if you can hit anything
"those improved pen angles on the ranger" dude the ranger is made wet paper and glass, a destroyer can cidel it let alone a Russian cruiser., Hell before they adjusted the height of Dive bombers, i could cidel a ranger with its OWN bombers.
Pen angles don't mean how much you pen. It means how much you bounce
@@Poctyk Well yes, but im not sure if that at angle it would have mattered, cant tell.
@@jaywerner8415 it doesn't, 5 degrees is quite small improvement.
What you realy need are some Cod on Tallinn for maximum effect.
You want to win games now adays. You do THIS, or play DD. Most players on the game are just abismal at best. Hope you all learned something from The Great Flamuu.
russian hipper
Man, that past_flolo guy is such a jerk, isn't he? Not activating sector reinforcement on time, building questionable production lines in DSP...
Yeah having a hard time making meaningful contribution at the moment with the Talinn
Uploaded 2 minues ago - 250 views
Are you people watching this on 15x speed?
2:45 wait what? DDs win games? How dare you 😉😉😉 As we all know it's BBs that win the game 😂😂😂
Does the Riga have the same improved pen angles?
I dont think so for the riga...petro has it
yes, they all have the un-noticeable 5 degree improved pen angle
Ah yes tallian ap.....
video uploaded 48 seconds ago . 12 likes lol also first
nice game flamu
what would be the main playstyle differences between Tallinn and Hipper besides playing around the radar?
For Tallin you play much safer cause you have light cruiser hull and not heavy cruiser like Hipper.