It seemed like you didnt crank the fuel nozzle all the way up with the jetboil on your wind test like you did on the other stove? So either you biased or failed on your experiment. Either way, this calls for a retest
@@Ricqu I cranked the fuel for all tests. There may be a broll shot or two taken as examples of what I did. I didn't have multiple cameras filming multiple angles throughout.
Don't weigh the stove with the pot because the longer it takes to heat up the more water evaporates to steam. Some of those grams were water, not butane.
I was thinking the same thing. I mean probably not worth making a whole other video, but Justin you should probably consult with the mad scientist (MyLifeOutdoors) before doing tests like this.
@@WhatSmellsLikeToast Yeah from all the hate jetboil gets from influencers, I imagine they're the only ones that don't give away free swag. These guys probably hate having to buy stuff.
Fuel efficiency and boil times are contradictory goals! If you want maximum fuel efficiency you dial back the burner to say 40% output, but this then leads to a longer boil time. If you want the fastest boil time you then drastically reduce fuel efficiency. It's like running your car: to get there quickly you take a hit at the gas pump; to save your wallet at the gas pump you drive 55 and arrive later. You can't have both! Although I appreciate your attempt to standardise your testing methods, in the end I'm not sure how much they relate to real-world conditions. For instance I use the notoriously wind-prone BRS and I have never ever needed to expose it to 10 or 15 mph winds and I've never needed a dedicated windshield to avoid this either - I just find or create a sheltered spot with the things I have with me or find on trail. From the Rockies to the Alps to the Himalayas I'm always getting, at worst, 8g fuel efficiency with it to achieve a 550mL boil, more usually 7g/550mL. Is that the best fuel efficiency possible, no, but as I never need to carry more than one 110g canister between resupplies it doesn't make any real-world difference - to me! Ultimately it depends what you need your stove for. If I'm solo thru hiking I want minimum weight and bulk so I choose accordingly. With a BRS and a Toaks 550 handleless pot I can nest a 110g canister, a bic lighter and a J-cloth inside it and the whole set-up is tiny and weighs only 97g (without the canister). With that 1 canister I could go 11-12 days between resupplies if I ever needed to (which I don't!). I run the BRS at 40% output (so yes, it takes a whopping 70-90 seconds longer to heat!); I shield it from the wind using my backpack or some logs or rocks (or me!); I filter and then only need to heat (not boil) water to 75-80C to safely make any drink or rehydrate any meal. I never need even 8g of fuel to heat 550ml of water with my BRS . In other words: knowledge and experience are important! For me, when solo hiking longer trails, this is as light and efficient as it gets and way beats any Petrel/Windmaster/Jetboil combo you could ever dream of for that particular use case. Other use cases do vary I realise!
I think there are different objectives on efficiency. Even at full gas, you can still want and look for the most fuel efficient burner. As for maximum fuel efficiency, you are correct in that turning it down for a slightly longer boil time will use less gas but I don't agree that 40% would be the magic number.
@@PokerMuppet There have been various threads discussing this over the years on BPL and Reddit/ultralight and I think the consensus is that somewhere around 30-40% output yields max fuel efficiency. Maybe it was nearer 30%!
I think your comment about using filtered water and just warming it up is a very important and probably often overlooked consideration with respect to fuel conservation. I'm guessing that the amount of energy required for even when a UV water purification device is used, is less than the energy required from butane to boil water, therefore your system is probably much more efficient.
Good comments, but slightly biased. Since your only going to 75-80 (and using 8 g). you have to scale that to a full boil to compare apples to apples. In this case, it would scale to about 10 g of fuel. Yes, his experiment is flawed in that he runs the stove full on. but a good HX coupling can yield about 5 g of fuel per 500 ml of water so twice your information from the field. Your 11-12 days between re-supply depends upon how many boils per day and that needs to be stated. At 8 g per boil, you'll get almost 13 heatings to 75-80 C. Someone boiling 2X per day will get half the number of days. Finally, windspeed is one of the hardest things to measure in the field. Additionally, it needs to be done where the stove is located. The difference between windspeed chest height compare to down at ground level can be 1/5 th the speed. It has been tested many times that the BRS fuel efficiency drops like a rock with winds much over 2 mph. My 2 cents.
@@dcaudwell if you say so... Every article I can find says 1/2-3/4 and REI state on their website... 'Run your stove slightly below full power in order to achieve full efficiency, roughly a quarter turn less than full output. If you're running at maximum power, your water might boil faster, but you'll waste heat around the sides of the pot and send it out into the environment.' So I think I'll be keeping my opinions, thanks.
The fuel used is particularly interesting. I did similar tests with a regulated stove (Pocket Rocket) and found that backing off the fuel by a half turn reduced fuel use by a third.
I bought my Jetboil 8 years ago, and the igniter is still working for me. My igniter has stopped working temporarily several times through the years, and I just clean my igniter filament to remove fuel residue and oxidation and it starts working fine again. I wonder how many 'broken' igniters are just lack of cleaning. it isn't unusual for it to take 2 or 3 presses for it to work for me though. Even just 8 years ago, there weren't as many all-in-one systems on the market. Mine was also a lot less than $130. I think I bought mine for ~$75 at the time. I don't use mine backpacking anymore. I use an MSR pocketrocket in the warm season (May-October - ish) now, and an MSR windpro for winter use. But the jetboil is still used a lot. I often bring it to make tea when I get back to the car on a dayhike, or a quick boil option car camping. It works well, and I don't think its a bad stove, although I do think its overpriced. I'm surprised by the wind test you did. I've used mine in winds higher than 10km/h without it going out completely. I don't really understand why yours was consistently doing that.
Ive had the same experience and got mine about 8ish years ago too. Love mine but I don't take it back packing due to bulk and weight. Its my go to for car camping and working in the woods when I dont have to hike far.
It works with the Windmaster + triflex but not the BRS3000, of course you can stand it on top like a regular pot but the groves don't line up because the pot supports for the BRS are offset from the centreline.
Increasing distance from the fins (within reason) actually increases efficiency in no wind. That distance from the fin stack is why the jetboil is more efferent in still air, but as you found, when you add wind that space becomes a liability.
Interesting . I wonder if the fire maple would perform better in zero wind if you didn't use the slots for the stove prongs and just set it on the unslotted portion of the bottom like a normal pot. Effectively raising the pot by the height of the fins.
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@@jasonmiles8974 That’s exactly what someone said in UL group in FB.
Its like when you build a Dragster car it beat everything on the straight line but can't turn well can't have 4 passenger can't take groceries. Jetboil wanted Fastest boil time for the most efficient fuel consumption so they lack elsewhere but they can Boil fast! You won't get this fast with other stove!
Fantastic video! I love how detailed and thorough your were with your analysis. I especially appreciate you detailed the absolute and relative amount of fuel necessary to boil a pot of water. One small nit: if someone is enterprising enough to set up camp in the backcountry, they probably can figure out how to shield a balky stove from the wind--behind a log, a tent, a person, etc. Wind resilience is certainly a factor, but hardly salient (at least to me). So the title is a bit click-baity given what your analysis actually demonstrates. Again, thank you!
When I want an all in one system (which isn't that often, too heavy) I reach for my MRS Windburner. That thing is bombproof and has a different type of burner that work through radiant heating rather than via a flame so even in insane winds the heat will still get to the pot. It also has options for pans if I'm getting really fancy with my meals. I also have a cheapo firemaple jetboil clone too that I don't think they make anymore and I never use it. It's exactly the same as the jetboil, it's just not a good system for the weight. I keep it around as a backup for friends when I bring them backpacking with me. It's cool to see you doing some more scientific tests like this, keep up the good work!
it took me 2 years to cave and buy a windburner (i was using a minards knock off pocket rocket 2). I have not looked back. it's so worth the price and i was amazed at how little fuel i used over a 7 day trip in the backwoods with my partner. I feel like if you want an all in one system and you are multiple people just get the MSR. I could understand if you're a soloist and using a BSR with toaks pot
@@arpakyna which makes sense for why it works for me and my partner cuz we are 2 people on the trail. i think if youre solo just go with some thing cheap, light, and as small as what you need. but the radiant heat im more interested in for fuel cuz my brain thinks its going to conserve the canisters longer (but no backing for this). it could be worth the cost for this reason if you use it enough
Bought the jungle supply (AMAZon) - Bulin Camping Gas Stove Burner an MRS Windburner type, current price $37. Also puchased the Bulin Heat Exchanger Outdoor Camp Pot 1.5/2.1 Liter pot as it fits the stove perfectly. Great for winter OR strong wind. I use the Bulin system to melt snow or for larger amounts of water or food. I have 3 Jetboil systems for many years, like NEW! Hardly used ever. Also don't like the tip-over possibly of the Jetboil systems
Justin, what you and most people who degrade a jetboil due to size, weight, etc don’t take into account is that it’s wheelhouse isn’t necessarily for “backpacking”. Try using a little canister stove with a pot balancing on it while you’re at alpine elevation and the wind is whipping at your tent walls. Yes, most alpinists/mountaineers will use the jetboil in their tents to boil water, having a small vent open of course. The major advantage to the jetboil is it’s a connected system so you can confidently hold it in your hands while you’re sitting in your tent boiling a quick cup of water. This is necessary for mountaineering especially when using small tents with no vestibule. I agree a little canister stove and ultralight pot is better suited for ultralight backpacking, but a jetboil is the right tool for the job when it comes to alpine climbing/mountaineering.
Much agreement "The major advantage to the jetboil is it’s a connected system so you can confidently hold it in your hands while you’re sitting in your tent boiling a quick cup of water. This is necessary for mountaineering". I believe that the jetboil is sold to non-mountaineering outdoor folk. For mountaineering using a hanging attachment is very nice. For car camping, picnicking etc the jetboil is OK, but expensive. The lightest is a small grate held aloft by 3 rocks over a tiny trench in the ground containing a twig fire. The trench can be substituted by a small Solo twig stove. My gear list shows the first purchase of this type stove was Wednesday, June 26, 2013. Your comment is very accurate :) Thanks for contributing. and BackpackingLight is an excellent source of info. Member since Monday, September 19, 2011, Unlimited Lifetime Membership since Jan 9, 2016
Trying to not sound like an old man here... but I've been happy with my liquid fuel stove for 15+ years and it was boiling water fast before canisters stoves were popular. The flame temperature is 500 degrees hotter than a canister stove, the fuel is more dense, you can carry a lot more fuel, and it works every time even in blistering below ice cold conditions in absurd wind. As a bonus, the fuel can be used as an accelerant for an emergency survival campfire. Canister stoves are definitely faster to light, but I've never been pressed for time while cooking dinner.
"liquid fuel stove" What kind of liquid fuel? White gas? I remember my brother had a white gas stove which he really liked. This was about 50 years ago so I'm not sure if those are even used any more.
Really good Justin. I’ll just add this. I have a Jet Boil and under what I would call “the typical backpacking situation “ it’s great. Simple and reliable. But I spend most of my time above 10k feet and using a stove in winter temps. The Jet Boil will not light but my Snow Peak GigaPower will (both piezo). In my environment wind is a constant and you need a windscreen. Beyond that you need a liquid fuel stove.
I absolutely love these sciencey testing comparisons. I definitely want more of these!! Would love to see pocket rocket 2, BSR, Soto amicus. *for science and no weird variables* is the ice water same temp each time? What about weighing out the water?
I've hated Jetboil for so long. I've had two of their igniters completely fail to to the point they've never worked again. I bought the firemaple version in 2020 and it still works. Recently got the exact firemaple you were using and LOVE it. Though there was a lid issue (it wouldn't come off after the water boiled- could literally pick the pot up, full of boiling water with the lid) but they sent me a whole new pot after being made aware of the defect and modifying their lid. So happy with my firemaple gear.
Nice one Justin! Looks like one of my tests, except done better. I have just compared the fire maple fixed star series x1 x2 and x3. I would be honoured if you were to watch it. But! You didn't take into account weight overall against fuel efficiency, so with the jetboil using less fuel, how much heavier is it to that offsets that efficiency? So if it weighs 30g more , but uses 3g less fuel for instance, that's 10 boils to make it worthwhile.
I luxury backpack, so the first meal is always steak, ribs, etc. But the only Jetboil I like for backpacking is the MiniMo or MicroMo, due to the stove being able to simmer for cooking things on a pan.
Awesome comparison! One suggestion, it looks like you used a measuring cup to measure the volume of your water, a more accurate and repeatable way of doing that would be to weigh your water conveniently 500 ml should equal 500 g. Love this type of video. Hope to see more in the future!
@@masterhacker7065 in what possible situation will cold water get hot faster than warmer water? If I have one pot of cold water, and one pot of warm water, as the first pot heats up it has to get to the same temperature as the second pot before it can get hotter, while the second pot is already there. Its like saying if I run 2 miles I can finish faster than if I run 1 mile.
@@christoplerlee1 probably not gonna make that much of a difference. I think someone already tested the petrel pot with and without the neoprene sleeve. it didn't do much in terms of boil time or keeping the water warm afterwards
I have watched a lot of the “ Gear Skeptic” content and running your stove not at max is the way to go for fuel efficiency. I would never use either of these stoves because they are both just to heavy. For cold weather I just go old school and use a multi fuel MSR using white gas. It’s a tank, we call it the blow torch. I am more of a long distance hiker so weight is a big factor. I don’t see a lot of Jet Boils myself. Nice video
Thanks for the demonstration! This just reinforces my view that the Jetboil is just not worth it. I have a 13-year-old Snowpeak Gigapower Light Max stove (one of the -if not the, first titanium backpacking stoves) and it uses about 8 grams to boil a 12 oz of water -in idea conditions, and the stove itself weighs just over 56 grams. I got it for like $30 or something.
Snowpeak is the epitome of overpriced backpacking gear. You clearly got it off the used rack. Those simple stoves are $10 on Amazon. You're not paying for a pot, base, igniter, insulator, lid. You're only paying a premium for the name.
I'm still not interested in a cheaper version of a proprietary all-in-one system. I just prefer the peace of mind that comes with knowing that although I may use a little more fuel, I can use my stoves and my pots in any combination that suits my particular needs for a particular trip.
As I'm sure a few people have mentioned, the MSR windburner is the other main high end all in one stove like the jet boil. However it uses a different heating element and a much more protected heat exchanger, it will blow both of these away for efficiency, especially in the wind tests. Similarly if you're looking for a canister top like the Green Peak, the Soto Windmaster will do much better than these, especially again in the wind tests.
I've a Jet Boil MiniMo user for about 5yrs. I've contemplated going to something lighter. But I need to replace the pot, pot cozy, lid/strainer, bowl, wind block, canister stand. I also have the attachment needed to use a fry pan or larger pot. If I didn't own it, I might look for something lighter. But I'm not sure it's worth replacing for the extra weight I'm carrying.
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@@mikeb5664 I just made the change from MiniMo to Petrel + Windmaster + Triflex + Hamans titanium lid. I agree, it wasn’t that cheap after all. I hope that the new setup works as well as good old MiniMo did.
Yeah, Jetboil is pretty good and easy to use for car camping. When I go backpacking or camping in the high alpine, I use the Soto Windmaster. If you want an alternative to a Jetboil, the Primus Lite stove system is pretty similar and much more wind-resistant.
I fell into the Jetboil scam when I first got into backpacking. The first, yes, the FIRST morning, I went to make some coffee and it wouldn't ignite. I had to use my friend's bic lighter to make my breakfast. I returned it to REI, bought a BRS and Toaks pot, and haven't looked back since.
You fell into the trap of not testing your gear before going camping. Sounds like you were unlucky and got a faulty jetboil. I have a jetboil but I must admit I do use my soto windmaster and my alcohol stove more often. The Jetboil is better for cooking with a frying pan I find.
Well I have had a Jetboil for 15 years and it’s still going strong. Ignition isn’t that great anymore but after a couple of tries it still ignites. I call that value! I consider my Jetboil one of my very best items I have ever purchased. I don’t know if the quality has degraded since, though
@@dudeymcduderson It worked at home just fine, but when I took it into high altitude it didn't work. I mainly camp in the high sierras so it was a no-go for me. And I don't cook on trail, I just need to boil water
@@AW-po7jr I believe that the newer models are known to go out pretty quickly compared to the old ones, I'm glad you got a good one, but if I may ask, why do you like using a Jetboil vs. using a typical cannister stove and pot?
Very thorough and scientific tests! I have both brands and like them both for car/camp ground camping and I like them both for mostly just boiling water alone, but not really for cooking. I’d rather my Coleman butane and white gas stoves for that. I bought the Fire Maple first but didn’t quite trust it, so I wasted my money on the Jet Boil. Too bad your video wasn’t out before I bought them!😂 Thank you for doing all the testing. I’m sure someone in the future will find it very helpful. Much to Jet Boils chagrin!😂
BTW, if you are weighing out the Stove /Canister system, you might as well weigh out the water rather than looking at the meniscus as it will have a much higher accuracy. My 2 cents.
All good! I think that you will find that if you lower the burn rate, you can get a 500 ml boil using 6-7 g of fuel. Even in high winds, you can consume 9-10 g of fuel at a lower burn rate. I agree 100% that the Petrel/Greenpeak (or Soto Windmaster) will outperform the JetBoil in the wind. This has been tested and documented. My 2 cents.
Great experiment! Also have the petrel which I pair with a triflex Windmaster, I have to file the slots in the pot to make it fit better but the combo is super solid. Though I do like jetboil for group trips. No babying needed which is so nice.
Jet boil systems are great if you already have one. And it’s served me extremely well as long as you’re not fully boiling. I got from Neels Gap to the 1/3 mile marker on the AT with ~1/2 a medium canister because I would hot soak my food instead of boiling fully. That’s been the main reason I bought mine in the first place several years ago.
I wonder if the increased efficiency of the jet boil is due some Bernoulli’s principle adjacent, thermodynamic property of the gas flames - maybe the extra space allows for more expansion which could, in turn, allow for a more efficient heat transfer? It seems unintuitive, usually you’d think more space means a less efficient heat transfer. Interesting stuff.
I was lucky enough to win a Jetboil about 10+ years ago. I’ve used it in all sorts of weather over the years. I’ve recently changed it up with a toaks pit and a soto wind master (yet to try) but if I’m being honest I was really reluctant to do so. I’ve never had any issue with my jet boil. Never needed to use a lighter and can’t think of any time it struggled with the wind. The only reason I’ve swapped was to save a bit of size and weight. The Jetboil definitely won’t be retired but being gifted to my dad for his fishing trips and to live on.
Very thorough test indeed. Have you tried the Petrel with the Soto windmaster Justin ? Thats what i mostly use with it and through the colder months i am going to be using the GSI Pinnacle stove with it
Hammered my Flash for over 3 years it gets used everyday i work remote in forestry so it gets bashed around, never missed a beat never had to change a part, the ignition is still fine. Sure theres a lot of cheaper chinesium on the market but i bet it falls apart after 6-12 months hard use. Good content subbed 👍 🇬🇧🤝🇺🇸
Hi Justin interesting test. I bought the Petrel GreenPeak combo several months ago and am happy with it. Would be interesting if you test the Petrel and Soto Windmaster. If it was really windy I would take my MSR Windburner which worked in a steady 30 mph wind one time. The biggest problem was getting it lit at 30 mph (no igniter) but that problem was not insurmountable and of course the weight penalty is an issue with the Windburner.
Good video and I enjoyed your decent attempt to create laboratory conditions, but I choose neither! Not sure if it's a UK only brand but I bought an OEX Hiero for just under forty quid. Boils 500ml of water in a couple of minutes so my walking buddy and I can have a brew, using 6-8g of gas (not that fussed so have never actually timed the boil but I always weigh the gas when I get home to ensure the can is good to go.) However, when I'm on my own I use my Trangia so I can watch nature as it silently boils water for my brew or gently heats a tin of soup for lunch. It's all horses for courses but I will never spend the huge amounts of money Jetboil, MSR and other "premium" brands want when far cheaper alternatives which are just as good exist. For the same reasons I will never own a Hilleberg tent or an Osprey rucksack! Fire Maple do seem to be offering some good stuff at decent prices though.
Been using my Jetboil since 2005. Always reliable and boiled in just over a minute. Used hard, still going strong. Yes, they are heavier and way over priced now days. It’s still my go-to kit for longer group trips when fuel efficiency is more critical for overall weight savings than the weight of the kit itself.
The MSR WindBurner (1.8L) is pretty freaking amazing (if you ignore cost and no piezo ignitor, idc for an ignitor tbh. i have a bic lighter that fits in the pot of the windburner with duct tape wrapped around the lighter too). The technology in the meshing and the fins for heating i feel like has not been replicated with it's competitors. Me and partner didnt even use a full canister of fuel for 6 full days of rehydrating (used it to heat roughly 3x a day - hot breakfast/coffee, hot dinner, and a dessert or drink. cold soaks 2 breakfasts but had 2 hot lunches in exchange). Another couple who used the same fuel (fresh canister MSR) also did not go through a full canister, and they used MSR 1.8L windburner too, same trip as us.
The burner type you are refering to is known as a radiant burner, the only other backpacking stove I know of with a radiant burner is the Firemaple Mars stove.
I've the same and have had zero issues at any elevation, climate, wind, etc. I used one cannister for three weeks just boiling water for breakfast and supper meals. Can't say I'd consider any other stove, at this point.
Oh yeah, everyone always attacks the originating company when a chinese company comes along and copies it for 1/4 the price lol. I've always been able to keep jetboils going in the wind since I started using them 10 years or so ago. But then I was using alcohol stoves before that so it was a huge relief in windy conditions to me.
I would recommend trying to find a good setup to test the pots with the lids on. It will make a pretty big difference in boil time to not have a whole bunch of heat escaping from the system.
In my testing, there was ~5% difference in boil time and fuel consumption with a lid on vs off. My goal is more to do comparable tests as accurately as possible and lid-off makes that easier. 5% is probably within the margin of error anyways.
Nice comparison. Regarding the gas-efficiency, IMO gas consumption should be in line with burn time... But I notice you're weighting both the stove with its boil and the water. It's possible that over several minutes at near-to-ebullition state, some of the water evaporates.
Pretty sure there is increase in efficiency with no wind with a larger burner to pot gap (to an extent) but as you add wind to the equation the larger burner to pot gap looses efficiency quicker than the smaller burner to pot gap. Gear skeptic will hopefully confirm this soon!
Saw a comparison on another channel with the fire maple vs the msr windburner, very simular results , love the comparison type videos to me a beginner or someone wanting to cut weight and save $$ the fire maple is a great choice but if using for more than one peraon the jet boil would be way to go since it would save tume
I got one bc there was hype and when I started seriously collecting for a backpacking set up I was like there’s absolutely no reason for this. It doesn’t even recommend you cook in them. All I need is something to boil water for freeze dried meals.
I recently bought this combination. the windmaster boiled 1 cup of room-temp water in 45 seconds. Really quick and light setup: I can store a 110 gram fuel canister, the windmaster in its carrying bag, the triflex pot support for the windmaster (necassary to make it interface with the petrel) and regular size bic lighter in the pot, and the handle securely closes it.
@@levis.9408 That’s the set up I’m using and it seems many others are as well. It works very well and is flexible as the Windmaster can be used with other pots or a frying pan.
As someone who's on a ridiculously tight budget, I simply cannot justify the price difference between the Jetboil and the FireMaple because that price difference is ridiculous 😱
If I were to go back and rebuild my kit. I wouldn't do jetboil. But I also don't believe in getting rid of something that isn't broken. So until it actually bites the dust. I will keep using mine.
The China-Maple copycat has not been on the market very long, while I have had Jetboil for 16 years now. My piezo igniter finally died a year ago, 15 years of age, and I replaced the cup too and use a lighter. My Jetboil came with the pot adaptor and I have used it with many pots and with Jetboil skillet as well. However I do not carry Jetboil backpacking any longer as it is heavy&large compared to my BRS stove and Ti pot. I use the Jetboil at home in power outages and for car camping, or just for coffee/hot chocolate on day hikes. I like its insulated handle and easy pour lid for pasta draining. I even have the french press plunger for it.
Yeah true, but jetboil has original designs. Fire maple has blatant ripoffs but somewhat original designs aswell. Jetboil is expensive but the products are better quality.
@@jamesrohner3792 the American inventors should get credit. FireMaple just rips off this intellectual property once again. Technology is always many times more important than who manufactures it, in this information age.
The wind test....ehh. The title of your video doesn't represent what you were demonstrating. In a top down review, the JetBoil Flash has several features that matter and are very useful. The Flash has the can stand, neoprene temp indicator sleeve, soft handle, perforated lid and the measuring cup that attaches completing the capsule. In heavy wind you would get behind boulders, shield with your body or hand for lighting, place it inside your vestibule, etc. I get your point, but a desktop test doesn't represent how we would try to get our stove going in backcountry. And after the first issue with the JetBoil you pretty much excluded it from the rest of the wind test. I live/backpack in Colorado and have been using the Flash consistently over 12,000 feet for the last 2 years, (2k miles of packing) with no issues. This felt a little click baity for what turned out to be...a bit of a biased wind test.
That's a fun experiment. I bought a Jetboil when I first started backpacking but rarely use it due to how much space it takes up. Do you plan on doing this experiment with other stoves?
@@JustinOutdoors that whould be interesting. MLO tested different stoves with this pot and Windmaster was faster and outperformed MSR Windburner for like 20+ seconds
I've never had a problem with the piezo lighter on my old (first version) Snow Peak Gigapower (which is even less efficient than the BRS). Sure, it doesn't always light on the first try, but you don't just give up. Sometimes my stove at home doesn't light on the first try, either.
I drink like 10 cups of coffee a day. So I think jetboil is best for me, I really only boil water. But I already have one from 5 years ago that I bought at bass pro shop cause it was literally the only stove they had in stock. I wouldn't really recommend buying one for 180$, but if you get one for free or have no other choice like me then hey, its good
I have the jetboil flash. It is my first stove for 2~3 years. While the pot and heat exchanger are superior than the other similar products, the stove itself is just below average or even bad. Mine was fail to ignite in the cold or slightly sub-optimum situations numerous times.(but work perfectly fine when I tested it at home) Not just mine is bad, my friend also got the flash had experienced the same issue. You can see the spark but just won’t ignite. Can’t speak for the other jetboil though.
Great but, I'd really like to see a comparison video from your view of the JetBoil vs the Fire Maple cooking system that most closely matches your JetBoil model. My point is the new pot bottom design and your stove choice to pair with it is the differentiator but their other product designs that are more similar in look to a JetBoil appear liable to the same wind problems as the JetBoil. I'm using my stoves around youth at Scouting and those other features like the cozy, handle vs heat difference, and more permanently enclosed stove burner unfortunately make or break our ability to recommended setups like your featured one to teens getting into backpacking or adults working around sometimes clumsy youth. We try to teach them to not have accidents, but we all know things happen sometimes. The new pot is a risk of burns like any un-sleeved pot and the open stoves are a hazard if they are bumped into or in some cases knocked over in limited space situations. May sound nuts but sometimes we don't have a choice when doing events as a group. Hello from Calgary by the way.
Jetboil has its place. Like when I’m taking my family of five only three miles in and I’ve gotta make 5 hot chocolates as well as breakfast. You can crank through boiling a lot of water. But if it’s just me and one of my kids…the Soto Windmaster comes along. Much smaller and lighter.
It would be interesting to know how much difference does it make to go full power vs half power when boiling water, from the gas economy perspective. I'd think going full blast will have lots of wasted energy.
👇 GEAR FROM THE VIDEO 👇
Jetboil Flash: geni.us/JetboilFlash
FireMaple Petrel Pot: geni.us/PetrelPot
FireMaple GreenPeak Stove: geni.us/GreenPeakStove
It seemed like you didnt crank the fuel nozzle all the way up with the jetboil on your wind test like you did on the other stove? So either you biased or failed on your experiment. Either way, this calls for a retest
@@Ricqu I cranked the fuel for all tests. There may be a broll shot or two taken as examples of what I did. I didn't have multiple cameras filming multiple angles throughout.
Have you seen the new Durston X-Dome? Oh boy. . . this sucker looks pretty sweet. Guess you'll be in the market for another tent lol.
To many cooks spoiling the soup 🐲
Don't weigh the stove with the pot because the longer it takes to heat up the more water evaporates to steam. Some of those grams were water, not butane.
I was thinking the same thing. I mean probably not worth making a whole other video, but Justin you should probably consult with the mad scientist (MyLifeOutdoors) before doing tests like this.
the camping/hiking youtube scene is so saturated with sponsored gear "Reviews" I appreciate content like this!
This TH-camr has so many links in the description it's ridiculous.
You can't detect a little bit of bias from this guy?
@@WhatSmellsLikeToast Yeah from all the hate jetboil gets from influencers, I imagine they're the only ones that don't give away free swag. These guys probably hate having to buy stuff.
@@sot8343 Sure buy a jet boil yourself and have the plastic cozy thing melt.
@@tauceti8341 that's the most absurd malfunction I've heard. Chalking that up to user error. They shouldn't let you play with fire.
Fuel efficiency and boil times are contradictory goals! If you want maximum fuel efficiency you dial back the burner to say 40% output, but this then leads to a longer boil time. If you want the fastest boil time you then drastically reduce fuel efficiency. It's like running your car: to get there quickly you take a hit at the gas pump; to save your wallet at the gas pump you drive 55 and arrive later. You can't have both!
Although I appreciate your attempt to standardise your testing methods, in the end I'm not sure how much they relate to real-world conditions. For instance I use the notoriously wind-prone BRS and I have never ever needed to expose it to 10 or 15 mph winds and I've never needed a dedicated windshield to avoid this either - I just find or create a sheltered spot with the things I have with me or find on trail. From the Rockies to the Alps to the Himalayas I'm always getting, at worst, 8g fuel efficiency with it to achieve a 550mL boil, more usually 7g/550mL. Is that the best fuel efficiency possible, no, but as I never need to carry more than one 110g canister between resupplies it doesn't make any real-world difference - to me!
Ultimately it depends what you need your stove for. If I'm solo thru hiking I want minimum weight and bulk so I choose accordingly. With a BRS and a Toaks 550 handleless pot I can nest a 110g canister, a bic lighter and a J-cloth inside it and the whole set-up is tiny and weighs only 97g (without the canister). With that 1 canister I could go 11-12 days between resupplies if I ever needed to (which I don't!). I run the BRS at 40% output (so yes, it takes a whopping 70-90 seconds longer to heat!); I shield it from the wind using my backpack or some logs or rocks (or me!); I filter and then only need to heat (not boil) water to 75-80C to safely make any drink or rehydrate any meal. I never need even 8g of fuel to heat 550ml of water with my BRS . In other words: knowledge and experience are important! For me, when solo hiking longer trails, this is as light and efficient as it gets and way beats any Petrel/Windmaster/Jetboil combo you could ever dream of for that particular use case. Other use cases do vary I realise!
I think there are different objectives on efficiency. Even at full gas, you can still want and look for the most fuel efficient burner. As for maximum fuel efficiency, you are correct in that turning it down for a slightly longer boil time will use less gas but I don't agree that 40% would be the magic number.
@@PokerMuppet There have been various threads discussing this over the years on BPL and Reddit/ultralight and I think the consensus is that somewhere around 30-40% output yields max fuel efficiency. Maybe it was nearer 30%!
I think your comment about using filtered water and just warming it up is a very important and probably often overlooked consideration with respect to fuel conservation. I'm guessing that the amount of energy required for even when a UV water purification device is used, is less than the energy required from butane to boil water, therefore your system is probably much more efficient.
Good comments, but slightly biased. Since your only going to 75-80 (and using 8 g). you have to scale that to a full boil to compare apples to apples. In this case, it would scale to about 10 g of fuel. Yes, his experiment is flawed in that he runs the stove full on. but a good HX coupling can yield about 5 g of fuel per 500 ml of water so twice your information from the field. Your 11-12 days between re-supply depends upon how many boils per day and that needs to be stated. At 8 g per boil, you'll get almost 13 heatings to 75-80 C. Someone boiling 2X per day will get half the number of days. Finally, windspeed is one of the hardest things to measure in the field. Additionally, it needs to be done where the stove is located. The difference between windspeed chest height compare to down at ground level can be 1/5 th the speed. It has been tested many times that the BRS fuel efficiency drops like a rock with winds much over 2 mph. My 2 cents.
@@dcaudwell if you say so... Every article I can find says 1/2-3/4 and REI state on their website...
'Run your stove slightly below full power in order to achieve full efficiency, roughly a quarter turn less than full output. If you're running at maximum power, your water might boil faster, but you'll waste heat around the sides of the pot and send it out into the environment.'
So I think I'll be keeping my opinions, thanks.
The fuel used is particularly interesting. I did similar tests with a regulated stove (Pocket Rocket) and found that backing off the fuel by a half turn reduced fuel use by a third.
I bought my Jetboil 8 years ago, and the igniter is still working for me. My igniter has stopped working temporarily several times through the years, and I just clean my igniter filament to remove fuel residue and oxidation and it starts working fine again. I wonder how many 'broken' igniters are just lack of cleaning. it isn't unusual for it to take 2 or 3 presses for it to work for me though.
Even just 8 years ago, there weren't as many all-in-one systems on the market. Mine was also a lot less than $130. I think I bought mine for ~$75 at the time.
I don't use mine backpacking anymore. I use an MSR pocketrocket in the warm season (May-October - ish) now, and an MSR windpro for winter use. But the jetboil is still used a lot. I often bring it to make tea when I get back to the car on a dayhike, or a quick boil option car camping. It works well, and I don't think its a bad stove, although I do think its overpriced.
I'm surprised by the wind test you did. I've used mine in winds higher than 10km/h without it going out completely. I don't really understand why yours was consistently doing that.
Ive had the same experience and got mine about 8ish years ago too. Love mine but I don't take it back packing due to bulk and weight. Its my go to for car camping and working in the woods when I dont have to hike far.
same, i replicated this with my micro mo and it lit right up
It’s giving My Life Outdoors. I appreciate the depth and time this took.
Love the experiment and appreciate the time you put into this! I also appreciate the transparency and lack of bias!
Fun note, the Fire Maple's grooves also line up perfectly with the Soto Windmaster's Triflex attachment! Ditto the BRS 3000.
It works with the Windmaster + triflex but not the BRS3000, of course you can stand it on top like a regular pot but the groves don't line up because the pot supports for the BRS are offset from the centreline.
@@chazphot You're right; I was thinking of the 1L for the BRS.
You can bend the BRS arms a little to make them fit.
Windmaster and Firemaple Petrel is a very good combination.
I also bent my brs arms a little and it works great.
Increasing distance from the fins (within reason) actually increases efficiency in no wind. That distance from the fin stack is why the jetboil is more efferent in still air, but as you found, when you add wind that space becomes a liability.
Interesting . I wonder if the fire maple would perform better in zero wind if you didn't use the slots for the stove prongs and just set it on the unslotted portion of the bottom like a normal pot. Effectively raising the pot by the height of the fins.
@@jasonmiles8974 That’s exactly what someone said in UL group in FB.
Its like when you build a Dragster car it beat everything on the straight line but can't turn well can't have 4 passenger can't take groceries. Jetboil wanted Fastest boil time for the most efficient fuel consumption so they lack elsewhere but they can Boil fast! You won't get this fast with other stove!
Fantastic video! I love how detailed and thorough your were with your analysis. I especially appreciate you detailed the absolute and relative amount of fuel necessary to boil a pot of water. One small nit: if someone is enterprising enough to set up camp in the backcountry, they probably can figure out how to shield a balky stove from the wind--behind a log, a tent, a person, etc. Wind resilience is certainly a factor, but hardly salient (at least to me). So the title is a bit click-baity given what your analysis actually demonstrates.
Again, thank you!
When I want an all in one system (which isn't that often, too heavy) I reach for my MRS Windburner. That thing is bombproof and has a different type of burner that work through radiant heating rather than via a flame so even in insane winds the heat will still get to the pot. It also has options for pans if I'm getting really fancy with my meals. I also have a cheapo firemaple jetboil clone too that I don't think they make anymore and I never use it. It's exactly the same as the jetboil, it's just not a good system for the weight. I keep it around as a backup for friends when I bring them backpacking with me. It's cool to see you doing some more scientific tests like this, keep up the good work!
it took me 2 years to cave and buy a windburner (i was using a minards knock off pocket rocket 2). I have not looked back. it's so worth the price and i was amazed at how little fuel i used over a 7 day trip in the backwoods with my partner. I feel like if you want an all in one system and you are multiple people just get the MSR. I could understand if you're a soloist and using a BSR with toaks pot
theres a radiant heat system from fire maple called mars. I think radiant systems are only worth it if you are boiling a lot of water at a time.
@@arpakyna which makes sense for why it works for me and my partner cuz we are 2 people on the trail. i think if youre solo just go with some thing cheap, light, and as small as what you need. but the radiant heat im more interested in for fuel cuz my brain thinks its going to conserve the canisters longer (but no backing for this). it could be worth the cost for this reason if you use it enough
Bought the jungle supply (AMAZon) - Bulin Camping Gas Stove Burner an MRS Windburner type, current price $37. Also puchased the Bulin Heat Exchanger Outdoor Camp Pot 1.5/2.1 Liter pot as it fits the stove perfectly. Great for winter OR strong wind. I use the Bulin system to melt snow or for larger amounts of water or food.
I have 3 Jetboil systems for many years, like NEW! Hardly used ever. Also don't like the tip-over possibly of the Jetboil systems
I prefer cooking with alcohol. It’s silent. It takes more time but hey, when I go out there it’s to slow down and watch nature. Not to chase it away.
That's what made me a convert, absolute silence, chilling out enjoying nature, I can wait a few extra minutes for the coffee.
Justin, what you and most people who degrade a jetboil due to size, weight, etc don’t take into account is that it’s wheelhouse isn’t necessarily for “backpacking”. Try using a little canister stove with a pot balancing on it while you’re at alpine elevation and the wind is whipping at your tent walls. Yes, most alpinists/mountaineers will use the jetboil in their tents to boil water, having a small vent open of course. The major advantage to the jetboil is it’s a connected system so you can confidently hold it in your hands while you’re sitting in your tent boiling a quick cup of water. This is necessary for mountaineering especially when using small tents with no vestibule. I agree a little canister stove and ultralight pot is better suited for ultralight backpacking, but a jetboil is the right tool for the job when it comes to alpine climbing/mountaineering.
Much agreement "The major advantage to the jetboil is it’s a connected system so you can confidently hold it in your hands while you’re sitting in your tent boiling a quick cup of water. This is necessary for mountaineering". I believe that the jetboil is sold to non-mountaineering outdoor folk. For mountaineering using a hanging attachment is very nice. For car camping, picnicking etc the jetboil is OK, but expensive.
The lightest is a small grate held aloft by 3 rocks over a tiny trench in the ground containing a twig fire. The trench can be substituted by a small Solo twig stove. My gear list shows the first purchase of this type stove was Wednesday, June 26, 2013.
Your comment is very accurate :) Thanks for contributing.
and BackpackingLight is an excellent source of info. Member since Monday, September 19, 2011, Unlimited Lifetime Membership since Jan 9, 2016
Trying to not sound like an old man here... but I've been happy with my liquid fuel stove for 15+ years and it was boiling water fast before canisters stoves were popular. The flame temperature is 500 degrees hotter than a canister stove, the fuel is more dense, you can carry a lot more fuel, and it works every time even in blistering below ice cold conditions in absurd wind. As a bonus, the fuel can be used as an accelerant for an emergency survival campfire. Canister stoves are definitely faster to light, but I've never been pressed for time while cooking dinner.
@JohnathonFisher Old fudd here. MSR Whisperlite for me, all day. Added advantage of burning multiple different fuel types.
"liquid fuel stove"
What kind of liquid fuel? White gas?
I remember my brother had a white gas stove which he really liked. This was about 50 years ago so I'm not sure if those are even used any more.
@ddegn The ‘MSR Whisperlite International’ burns ‘white gas’ kerosene, or unleaded gasoline.
@@trickydicky2908 Thanks.
I’ve been using MSR Pocketrockets for 16+ years. Like to see innovation in camping stoves. Thanks for the video.
Are the stoves at different heights? If so, I wonder whether the wind speed was different at different heights. I loved the video!
Good video, I hope to see more stoves tested as I am in the market for one before next season 👍
I tried something similar with Minimo and Petrel coupled with Windmaster. I suspect that the stove he is using isn’t that efficient.
I really appreciate this test, and look forward to seeing you test other stoves similarly. I.e. the Soto Windmaster.
Really good Justin. I’ll just add this. I have a Jet Boil and under what I would call “the typical backpacking situation “ it’s great. Simple and reliable. But I spend most of my time above 10k feet and using a stove in winter temps. The Jet Boil will not light but my Snow Peak GigaPower will (both piezo). In my environment wind is a constant and you need a windscreen. Beyond that you need a liquid fuel stove.
I absolutely love these sciencey testing comparisons. I definitely want more of these!! Would love to see pocket rocket 2, BSR, Soto amicus.
*for science and no weird variables* is the ice water same temp each time? What about weighing out the water?
I've hated Jetboil for so long. I've had two of their igniters completely fail to to the point they've never worked again. I bought the firemaple version in 2020 and it still works. Recently got the exact firemaple you were using and LOVE it. Though there was a lid issue (it wouldn't come off after the water boiled- could literally pick the pot up, full of boiling water with the lid) but they sent me a whole new pot after being made aware of the defect and modifying their lid. So happy with my firemaple gear.
Nice one Justin! Looks like one of my tests, except done better. I have just compared the fire maple fixed star series x1 x2 and x3. I would be honoured if you were to watch it.
But! You didn't take into account weight overall against fuel efficiency, so with the jetboil using less fuel, how much heavier is it to that offsets that efficiency? So if it weighs 30g more , but uses 3g less fuel for instance, that's 10 boils to make it worthwhile.
"Right in the meniscus!" is going to be my new catch phrase.
right to the meniscus babyeeee
I luxury backpack, so the first meal is always steak, ribs, etc. But the only Jetboil I like for backpacking is the MiniMo or MicroMo, due to the stove being able to simmer for cooking things on a pan.
I also have the minimo!. I really like the simmer control and the option to add the pot support to use the summit skillet.
@@MrEllio7 Same. Good for backpackers that like to eat something other then dehydrated meals
Awesome comparison! One suggestion, it looks like you used a measuring cup to measure the volume of your water, a more accurate and repeatable way of doing that would be to weigh your water conveniently 500 ml should equal 500 g. Love this type of video. Hope to see more in the future!
the only issue is using ice cold water isnt the best because it actually gets up to a hotter temp faster than room temp water does
@@masterhacker7065 in what possible situation will cold water get hot faster than warmer water? If I have one pot of cold water, and one pot of warm water, as the first pot heats up it has to get to the same temperature as the second pot before it can get hotter, while the second pot is already there. Its like saying if I run 2 miles I can finish faster than if I run 1 mile.
Is nobody going to mention that the Jetboil has an insulated pot?
The jetboil has an insulated pot.. 😮
Insulation for petrel pot exists and is sold separately.
Insulation is a stretch
I’m saying his test was skewed because the jetboil pot was insulated and the petrel pot wasn’t so of course it will have faster heat up times.
@@christoplerlee1 probably not gonna make that much of a difference. I think someone already tested the petrel pot with and without the neoprene sleeve. it didn't do much in terms of boil time or keeping the water warm afterwards
Great test! I'm waiting for the msr windburner test!
I have watched a lot of the “ Gear Skeptic” content and running your stove not at max is the way to go for fuel efficiency. I would never use either of these stoves because they are both just to heavy. For cold weather I just go old school and use a multi fuel MSR using white gas. It’s a tank, we call it the blow torch. I am more of a long distance hiker so weight is a big factor. I don’t see a lot of Jet Boils myself. Nice video
Great job Justin! I got the Fire Maple set up that you have earlier this year and it's amazing!
Thanks for the demonstration! This just reinforces my view that the Jetboil is just not worth it. I have a 13-year-old Snowpeak Gigapower Light Max stove (one of the -if not the, first titanium backpacking stoves) and it uses about 8 grams to boil a 12 oz of water -in idea conditions, and the stove itself weighs just over 56 grams. I got it for like $30 or something.
Snowpeak is the epitome of overpriced backpacking gear. You clearly got it off the used rack. Those simple stoves are $10 on Amazon. You're not paying for a pot, base, igniter, insulator, lid. You're only paying a premium for the name.
Great video Justin. We appreciate your hard work and testing insights
Cheap Tin Windscreen around the stove flame works wonders when it's windy.
I'm still not interested in a cheaper version of a proprietary all-in-one system. I just prefer the peace of mind that comes with knowing that although I may use a little more fuel, I can use my stoves and my pots in any combination that suits my particular needs for a particular trip.
Great test Justin!! I love FireMaple products!
As I'm sure a few people have mentioned, the MSR windburner is the other main high end all in one stove like the jet boil. However it uses a different heating element and a much more protected heat exchanger, it will blow both of these away for efficiency, especially in the wind tests. Similarly if you're looking for a canister top like the Green Peak, the Soto Windmaster will do much better than these, especially again in the wind tests.
For me, the time it takes to boil water is not very important. The fuel used and weight of the system is.
I've a Jet Boil MiniMo user for about 5yrs. I've contemplated going to something lighter. But I need to replace the pot, pot cozy, lid/strainer, bowl, wind block, canister stand. I also have the attachment needed to use a fry pan or larger pot. If I didn't own it, I might look for something lighter. But I'm not sure it's worth replacing for the extra weight I'm carrying.
@@mikeb5664 I just made the change from MiniMo to Petrel + Windmaster + Triflex + Hamans titanium lid. I agree, it wasn’t that cheap after all. I hope that the new setup works as well as good old MiniMo did.
Yeah, Jetboil is pretty good and easy to use for car camping. When I go backpacking or camping in the high alpine, I use the Soto Windmaster. If you want an alternative to a Jetboil, the Primus Lite stove system is pretty similar and much more wind-resistant.
Kilometers? Celsius? where do you think we are, Canada? 😋
Great video!
I fell into the Jetboil scam when I first got into backpacking. The first, yes, the FIRST morning, I went to make some coffee and it wouldn't ignite. I had to use my friend's bic lighter to make my breakfast. I returned it to REI, bought a BRS and Toaks pot, and haven't looked back since.
You fell into the trap of not testing your gear before going camping. Sounds like you were unlucky and got a faulty jetboil.
I have a jetboil but I must admit I do use my soto windmaster and my alcohol stove more often. The Jetboil is better for cooking with a frying pan I find.
Well I have had a Jetboil for 15 years and it’s still going strong. Ignition isn’t that great anymore but after a couple of tries it still ignites. I call that value! I consider my Jetboil one of my very best items I have ever purchased.
I don’t know if the quality has degraded since, though
@@dudeymcduderson It worked at home just fine, but when I took it into high altitude it didn't work. I mainly camp in the high sierras so it was a no-go for me. And I don't cook on trail, I just need to boil water
@@AW-po7jr I believe that the newer models are known to go out pretty quickly compared to the old ones, I'm glad you got a good one, but if I may ask, why do you like using a Jetboil vs. using a typical cannister stove and pot?
@@AW-po7jrYeap same for me! Easy fast efficient packable and can find parts every where if i need a replacement cap or french press!
Very thorough and scientific tests! I have both brands and like them both for car/camp ground camping and I like them both for mostly just boiling water alone, but not really for cooking. I’d rather my Coleman butane and white gas stoves for that. I bought the Fire Maple first but didn’t quite trust it, so I wasted my money on the Jet Boil. Too bad your video wasn’t out before I bought them!😂 Thank you for doing all the testing. I’m sure someone in the future will find it very helpful. Much to Jet Boils chagrin!😂
BTW, if you are weighing out the Stove /Canister system, you might as well weigh out the water rather than looking at the meniscus as it will have a much higher accuracy. My 2 cents.
But but. I love miniscii. :(
Ya... I will probably weigh the water next time.
thank you. ordered one along with the adapter for the more common cannisters.
Sammy Walton makes one just like that if not the exact copy. I use it to make green chile beef stew on rainy days. Thanks for the video. 🤝
All good! I think that you will find that if you lower the burn rate, you can get a 500 ml boil using 6-7 g of fuel. Even in high winds, you can consume 9-10 g of fuel at a lower burn rate. I agree 100% that the Petrel/Greenpeak (or Soto Windmaster) will outperform the JetBoil in the wind. This has been tested and documented. My 2 cents.
Love these kind of test , keep it up
Great experiment! Also have the petrel which I pair with a triflex Windmaster, I have to file the slots in the pot to make it fit better but the combo is super solid.
Though I do like jetboil for group trips. No babying needed which is so nice.
Jet boil systems are great if you already have one. And it’s served me extremely well as long as you’re not fully boiling. I got from Neels Gap to the 1/3 mile marker on the AT with ~1/2 a medium canister because I would hot soak my food instead of boiling fully. That’s been the main reason I bought mine in the first place several years ago.
I wonder if the increased efficiency of the jet boil is due some Bernoulli’s principle adjacent, thermodynamic property of the gas flames - maybe the extra space allows for more expansion which could, in turn, allow for a more efficient heat transfer? It seems unintuitive, usually you’d think more space means a less efficient heat transfer. Interesting stuff.
insulated pot vs non insulated pot
I was lucky enough to win a Jetboil about 10+ years ago. I’ve used it in all sorts of weather over the years. I’ve recently changed it up with a toaks pit and a soto wind master (yet to try) but if I’m being honest I was really reluctant to do so. I’ve never had any issue with my jet boil. Never needed to use a lighter and can’t think of any time it struggled with the wind. The only reason I’ve swapped was to save a bit of size and weight. The Jetboil definitely won’t be retired but being gifted to my dad for his fishing trips and to live on.
Very thorough test indeed. Have you tried the Petrel with the Soto windmaster Justin ? Thats what i mostly use with it and through the colder months i am going to be using the GSI Pinnacle stove with it
I moved over to alcohol burners a few years ago and never went back.
I love seeing tests like this, good video.
Do we already know the numbers for the same test using just a Soto windmaster and toaks or evernew pot? I’d love to see that.
Hammered my Flash for over 3 years it gets used everyday i work remote in forestry so it gets bashed around, never missed a beat never had to change a part, the ignition is still fine.
Sure theres a lot of cheaper chinesium on the market but i bet it falls apart after 6-12 months hard use.
Good content subbed 👍
🇬🇧🤝🇺🇸
Hi Justin interesting test. I bought the Petrel GreenPeak combo several months ago and am happy with it. Would be interesting if you test the Petrel and Soto Windmaster. If it was really windy I would take my MSR Windburner which worked in a steady 30 mph wind one time. The biggest problem was getting it lit at 30 mph (no igniter) but that problem was not insurmountable and of course the weight penalty is an issue with the Windburner.
Good video and I enjoyed your decent attempt to create laboratory conditions, but I choose neither! Not sure if it's a UK only brand but I bought an OEX Hiero for just under forty quid. Boils 500ml of water in a couple of minutes so my walking buddy and I can have a brew, using 6-8g of gas (not that fussed so have never actually timed the boil but I always weigh the gas when I get home to ensure the can is good to go.)
However, when I'm on my own I use my Trangia so I can watch nature as it silently boils water for my brew or gently heats a tin of soup for lunch.
It's all horses for courses but I will never spend the huge amounts of money Jetboil, MSR and other "premium" brands want when far cheaper alternatives which are just as good exist. For the same reasons I will never own a Hilleberg tent or an Osprey rucksack! Fire Maple do seem to be offering some good stuff at decent prices though.
Sick with Covid watching my favorite TH-camrs.
Been using my Jetboil since 2005. Always reliable and boiled in just over a minute. Used hard, still going strong. Yes, they are heavier and way over priced now days. It’s still my go-to kit for longer group trips when fuel efficiency is more critical for overall weight savings than the weight of the kit itself.
I'd love to see this same testing done with a combination of the Fire Maple Petrel Pot and the Soto Windmaster
The MSR WindBurner (1.8L) is pretty freaking amazing (if you ignore cost and no piezo ignitor, idc for an ignitor tbh. i have a bic lighter that fits in the pot of the windburner with duct tape wrapped around the lighter too).
The technology in the meshing and the fins for heating i feel like has not been replicated with it's competitors. Me and partner didnt even use a full canister of fuel for 6 full days of rehydrating (used it to heat roughly 3x a day - hot breakfast/coffee, hot dinner, and a dessert or drink. cold soaks 2 breakfasts but had 2 hot lunches in exchange).
Another couple who used the same fuel (fresh canister MSR) also did not go through a full canister, and they used MSR 1.8L windburner too, same trip as us.
The burner type you are refering to is known as a radiant burner, the only other backpacking stove I know of with a radiant burner is the Firemaple Mars stove.
I've the same and have had zero issues at any elevation, climate, wind, etc. I used one cannister for three weeks just boiling water for breakfast and supper meals. Can't say I'd consider any other stove, at this point.
Did you first test factor in the leakage you get putting a stove on a gas canister ?
10:15 he didn't screw it off. Which is the better way. But why weigh the pot, dunno.
@@bcamping1 it has leakage when both screwing the canister on and off
@@Fizzyfuzzybignbuzzy this conversation is over.
@@bcamping1 haha alright?
Oh yeah, everyone always attacks the originating company when a chinese company comes along and copies it for 1/4 the price lol. I've always been able to keep jetboils going in the wind since I started using them 10 years or so ago. But then I was using alcohol stoves before that so it was a huge relief in windy conditions to me.
The petrel pot is a bit of a different solution to the jetboil type stoves. It isn't a clone.
Justin science 😂
I would recommend trying to find a good setup to test the pots with the lids on. It will make a pretty big difference in boil time to not have a whole bunch of heat escaping from the system.
In my testing, there was ~5% difference in boil time and fuel consumption with a lid on vs off. My goal is more to do comparable tests as accurately as possible and lid-off makes that easier. 5% is probably within the margin of error anyways.
@@JustinOutdoors huh interesting that's far less of a difference than I'd expect. Yeah I'd probably agree that 5% is within a good margin of error.
Nice comparison. Regarding the gas-efficiency, IMO gas consumption should be in line with burn time... But I notice you're weighting both the stove with its boil and the water. It's possible that over several minutes at near-to-ebullition state, some of the water evaporates.
Weighing happened before water was added and after water was poured out.
Pretty sure there is increase in efficiency with no wind with a larger burner to pot gap (to an extent) but as you add wind to the equation the larger burner to pot gap looses efficiency quicker than the smaller burner to pot gap. Gear skeptic will hopefully confirm this soon!
Would enjoy a comparison if you added a DIY insulator to the Maple.
My trusty Trangia has fed many hungry gas stove owners in windy weather. The windshield design is super. But it isn't superlight or fast.
Saw a comparison on another channel with the fire maple vs the msr windburner, very simular results , love the comparison type videos to me a beginner or someone wanting to cut weight and save $$ the fire maple is a great choice but if using for more than one peraon the jet boil would be way to go since it would save tume
Great video!
I’ve had a jet boil zip for 14 years. It’s the mark 1 version. Still going strong
very helpful testing, thanks!
I got one bc there was hype and when I started seriously collecting for a backpacking set up I was like there’s absolutely no reason for this. It doesn’t even recommend you cook in them. All I need is something to boil water for freeze dried meals.
I'd love to see the Petrel with the Soto windmaster
Or the Camping Moon XD-2F
I recently bought this combination. the windmaster boiled 1 cup of room-temp water in 45 seconds. Really quick and light setup: I can store a 110 gram fuel canister, the windmaster in its carrying bag, the triflex pot support for the windmaster (necassary to make it interface with the petrel) and regular size bic lighter in the pot, and the handle securely closes it.
@@levis.9408 That’s the set up I’m using and it seems many others are as well. It works very well and is flexible as the Windmaster can be used with other pots or a frying pan.
now i'm curious how the MSR Windburner compares
As someone who's on a ridiculously tight budget, I simply cannot justify the price difference between the Jetboil and the FireMaple because that price difference is ridiculous 😱
If I were to go back and rebuild my kit. I wouldn't do jetboil. But I also don't believe in getting rid of something that isn't broken. So until it actually bites the dust. I will keep using mine.
The China-Maple copycat has not been on the market very long, while I have had Jetboil for 16 years now. My piezo igniter finally died a year ago, 15 years of age, and I replaced the cup too and use a lighter. My Jetboil came with the pot adaptor and I have used it with many pots and with Jetboil skillet as well. However I do not carry Jetboil backpacking any longer as it is heavy&large compared to my BRS stove and Ti pot. I use the Jetboil at home in power outages and for car camping, or just for coffee/hot chocolate on day hikes. I like its insulated handle and easy pour lid for pasta draining. I even have the french press plunger for it.
China Maple copy cat... considering jetboil is mfg in China I'll take that as a wash.
To be fair the jet boil used to be made in New Hampshire.
@@jamesrohner3792considering he said the jet boil has lasted longer.. don't think that's a wash lol but I get what you're saying
Yeah true, but jetboil has original designs. Fire maple has blatant ripoffs but somewhat original designs aswell. Jetboil is expensive but the products are better quality.
@@jamesrohner3792 the American inventors should get credit. FireMaple just rips off this intellectual property once again. Technology is always many times more important than who manufactures it, in this information age.
The wind test....ehh. The title of your video doesn't represent what you were demonstrating. In a top down review, the JetBoil Flash has several features that matter and are very useful. The Flash has the can stand, neoprene temp indicator sleeve, soft handle, perforated lid and the measuring cup that attaches completing the capsule. In heavy wind you would get behind boulders, shield with your body or hand for lighting, place it inside your vestibule, etc. I get your point, but a desktop test doesn't represent how we would try to get our stove going in backcountry. And after the first issue with the JetBoil you pretty much excluded it from the rest of the wind test. I live/backpack in Colorado and have been using the Flash consistently over 12,000 feet for the last 2 years, (2k miles of packing) with no issues. This felt a little click baity for what turned out to be...a bit of a biased wind test.
Exactly the jet boil doesn’t blow out with a slight wind in the real world, there would need to be a significant wind
That's a fun experiment. I bought a Jetboil when I first started backpacking but rarely use it due to how much space it takes up. Do you plan on doing this experiment with other stoves?
If the video does well and there is interest! I'd really like to compare the Windmaster and Pocket Rocket Deluxe and BRS3000 to the Windmaster/PRD.
@@JustinOutdoorsand the Amicus please.
@@texmexia49The pot won't work with the Amicus' 4 supports.
@@geoffdouglass4668 👌thank you.
@@JustinOutdoors that whould be interesting. MLO tested different stoves with this pot and Windmaster was faster and outperformed MSR Windburner for like 20+ seconds
It's America's Test Kitchen for backpacking stoves.
Good so far...
All stoves do better with a windscreen.
A few grams of foil would probably double the efficiency of both stoves in wind.
The Optimus clip on windshield works well with the petrel pot.
I'm a sucker for a good stove system showdown... Let alone a HX pot one!
I've never had a problem with the piezo lighter on my old (first version) Snow Peak Gigapower (which is even less efficient than the BRS). Sure, it doesn't always light on the first try, but you don't just give up. Sometimes my stove at home doesn't light on the first try, either.
is the alloy quality also worth comparing? are cheaper alloys more likely to leach metallic substances into yr food?
Project farm level reviews, very nice!
I drink like 10 cups of coffee a day. So I think jetboil is best for me, I really only boil water. But I already have one from 5 years ago that I bought at bass pro shop cause it was literally the only stove they had in stock. I wouldn't really recommend buying one for 180$, but if you get one for free or have no other choice like me then hey, its good
My lighter is packed in my pot. In fact, my whole cook system is packed in my pot, including the spork!
I have the jetboil flash. It is my first stove for 2~3 years. While the pot and heat exchanger are superior than the other similar products, the stove itself is just below average or even bad. Mine was fail to ignite in the cold or slightly sub-optimum situations numerous times.(but work perfectly fine when I tested it at home) Not just mine is bad, my friend also got the flash had experienced the same issue. You can see the spark but just won’t ignite. Can’t speak for the other jetboil though.
I don't understand getting anything other than something like an MSR burner that has the pump bottle.
Does your sweet new pot lid work on the fire maple pot?
It does :)
Great but, I'd really like to see a comparison video from your view of the JetBoil vs the Fire Maple cooking system that most closely matches your JetBoil model. My point is the new pot bottom design and your stove choice to pair with it is the differentiator but their other product designs that are more similar in look to a JetBoil appear liable to the same wind problems as the JetBoil. I'm using my stoves around youth at Scouting and those other features like the cozy, handle vs heat difference, and more permanently enclosed stove burner unfortunately make or break our ability to recommended setups like your featured one to teens getting into backpacking or adults working around sometimes clumsy youth. We try to teach them to not have accidents, but we all know things happen sometimes. The new pot is a risk of burns like any un-sleeved pot and the open stoves are a hazard if they are bumped into or in some cases knocked over in limited space situations. May sound nuts but sometimes we don't have a choice when doing events as a group. Hello from Calgary by the way.
Jetboil has its place. Like when I’m taking my family of five only three miles in and I’ve gotta make 5 hot chocolates as well as breakfast. You can crank through boiling a lot of water. But if it’s just me and one of my kids…the Soto Windmaster comes along. Much smaller and lighter.
There Is insulation for G3 Petrel Fire maple pot. I used JB MicroMo for years but now i use FM Petrel pot with Camping Moon Xd2f stove.
But which is better at making eggs in the lift line?
I tried something similar with Minimo and Petrel coupled with Windmaster. I suspect that the stove in use isn’t that efficient.
It would be interesting to know how much difference does it make to go full power vs half power when boiling water, from the gas economy perspective. I'd think going full blast will have lots of wasted energy.