Critical Realism in Science and Religion? | ENCORE Episode 1802 | Closer To Truth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- What’s the world as it really is? Not filtered, not represented, not interpreted. Bedrock reality. Meaning and purpose, if any, depends on it. But can we know if what we perceive is bedrock reality? What is critical realism and how does it apply to science and theology? Featuring interviews with Ernan McMullin, Bas C. van Fraassen, Paul Allen, Michael Ruse, Francisco J. Ayala, and J. Matthew Ashley.
An encore screening of Season 18, Episode 2 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#CriticalRealism #Reality
![Would We Be Better Off Without Religion? - Christopher Hitchens [2007] ✝️ | Intelligence Squared](/img/n.gif)
Very fascinating episode, and absolutely warm regards toward all these gentlemen who serving honestly, every moment to bring us all... CLOSER TO TRUTH ✨✨
Love your videos Robert. Keep up the excellent work 👍👌
I freaking love this channel
@@abelincoln8885 I think you missed the point of the video... how can you know with 100% certainty that everything you're saying is pure truth and not belief?
How can we relay fully on what we see and experience as ultimate truth?
It seems like you're suggesting we are all just functions doing their thing and that's that?
I’m gonna have to come back to this to rewatch. probably many times.
oh to understand concepts about existence and reality as deeply as these scholars here. brain is a lil slow but it’ll get there.
Me too. Saved to watch again because it's mind boggling in spots for someone like me that hadn't been trained in science, or theology...
Accessing reality with our mind? Fascinating discussion.
It’s not about religion. It’s about the truth.
James 1:27
@@williamesselman3102 What's understood as religion is a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices. The Bible is about knowing the truth which is science, knowing or learning truth. People confuse themselves with definitions and other distractions.
Very special episode 👏 sometimes all one can do is just listen and learn :)
As ever, an interesting episode. A rare foray in these programmes to look at someone or something proposing a bridge between theology and science. Personally, the theological aspect feels like a leap into wishful thinking rather than a step toward anything useful or necessary, but the attempt is informative. I studied Critical Realism for my PhD, but the speakers here seem to be referring to a North American version/heritage whereas the version and theory I was exposed to was Roy Bhaskar’s. I think that has some important, if nuanced, differences, as it is basically a critique of European positivism. The way Robert refers to ‘realism’ in this episode is what I think of as positivism… that our measure of the world is how the world actually is in reality. Realism, for me, is the assumption of an external and existent reality that must - demonstrably - be such that the phenomenological perception (including those of science) is possible, as well as such that the phenomena under investigation are real. The other word used a lot is ‘retroduction’, where Bhaskar develops abduction as the inference needed.
Yes, Because critical thinking takes away so much risk. So that the science experiments we perform becomes save. 😎🥳😎
We're dead without 'risk'!
VanFrassen with Lambert wrote a great book called "Derivation and Counterexample"
Episode leaving a lasting impression.
It’s hard to grasp how so much quality content can be produced in such a short amount of time. I mean it’s not just opinions it’s facts travels and research and interviews. Hard to grasp.
Theological realism and scientific conceptualism? Do science concepts develop from theological reality, and how to approach?
Sounds like C S Peirce's Firstness, the realm of possibility, feeling imagination etc., which is prior to Secondness, the realm of 'brute fact' etc., and Thirdness, the realm of relatedness between things etc. And the real is known by its effects is a Peircean given.
"...bedrock reality. Meaning and purpose, if any, depends on it" that's an assumption and a contradiction. Cogito ergo sum; why do we keep externalizing what is within? Why do we think we can know the truth if we exclude a big part, arguably the primary part, from the equation? Like we humans are part of the very reality we are trying to investigate, we can't pretend " it's subjective" because our existence all that we know starts from ourselves. We don't know what reality is like in the absence of a mind.
Science is epistemological, theology / religion is ontological and teleological? How might one further investigate the experience of ontology and teleology?
Meaning and purpose depend on knowing the world as it really is?
We don't know the world as it really is and it seems likely that our sense of meaning and purpose are founded, and depend on, that reality?
Theology / religion experience similar to experience of physical reality in science?
10:47 Insufficient data gives estimates now, but the future will provide refinements and a smaller "Captain's Hat" of where your Navigator thinks your ship is at.
How close are we to the truth now?
Not in our lifetimes, mabye something on this planet a 100 000 years will begin to be close.
"How close are we to the truth now?"
24
Best moment...
Kuhn: If religion and science are in one room, science has been painting that room gradually so that religion has been withdrawing more and more so that now religion is in a tiny corner and the only thing that science hasn't painted is why the universe is there in the first place.
McMullen: I love that metaphor! Because in fact you can paint out the corner if you want, but you don't have the room. You need to have a room in order to paint it.
First, I've learned to watch the entire video before posting comments. What I take away from this is, without a mind there is no reality because it would be unobservable at least by human standards...
Could possibilities come from future, the future presents possibilities that both nature and human being develop and use?
Human epistemological / conceptual perception necessary, not sufficient for theological reality?
saying we cannot, questions consistency of statement.
Bas has it right
oh well that settles it. thank you, omniscient one! (You really know how to argue cogently for a position!)
Go Irish! ☘️
Science requires a theory of truth. We have one, the correspondence theory.
It is an easy course for science to associate Spirituality and theology so the concept can be dismantled!
atoms ..if there is an atom....do you believe in atoms? We don't ask those questions of something we can't observe like atoms....but, we do ask those questions about God...why the prejudice? Great piece...thank you..learned a lot from this video...
Can science explain why scientists are explaining physical reality, or painting the room?
Can the experienced effects of theology / religion demonstrate God as cause?
How does critical realism process theology?
... relate to ...
👍👍
This is all the isms of the human mind, like a voice in the wilderness. At war with ones self. You have to come down on one side until the side you have taken proves positive or negative. But there is only really one side to take that is Spirit and no I am not talking religious doctrines and dogma. Seek it and you will find it, but it cannot be found in isms, mystics or semi- metaphysical systems.
Our interpretation of the reality we experience. Leaves us with only one logical conclusion. My god did it.🙄
*our
@@williamesselman3102
Well, hi...again.
No, it's your interpretation of a god belief. No more real than believing in Odin.
even you can be big enough to admit that, though you've no evidence, if you had some, regardless of whatever sect, it would be "our" God.
@@williamesselman3102
But, it might not be your god or everyone might be totally wrong. Which is the most likely possiblity since an indifferent reality can't be counted out. And there is actually more evidence to support that conclusion than yours has.
I am not the one saying that they have this reality locked down. That the bible has more credibility than any of the others. That their belief is always somehow more valid than any of the others.
Asian propagandists are dumb.
And the Bible is true.
The lifetimes of most smaller particles are very small.
IF WE WERE IMMORTALS WHAT KINDS OF QUESTIONS WE WOULD HAVE? HOW MANY TIMES WE WOULD SUICIDE WITH EACH ONE OF AN INFINITE NUMBER OF OUR OLD PERSONALITIES TO BE BORN IN A NEW ONE TO FORGET AND TO START AGAIN AND AGAIN THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DYING AT ONCE OR THOUSANDS OF TIMES IN ENDLESS LIFE TO BE TIRED OF BEING THE SAME ONE TAKE FIVE. METİN ARIDAŞIR 26.05.2022
Your use of capitals completely convinced me.
God is Consciousness. And Consciousness is exhibited by mass when it is no motion, the Point Mass particles do not create any equilibrium - stable or unstable. Human brain - or a part of it - may reach such a close to Static stage and that is deep meditation. At that state individual Consciousness merges into Cosmic Consciousness or GOD. Human being is the only known instrument which can reach such a state of Cosmic Consciousness. It cannot be proved by any other means. I heard that Einstein once said that God is my vision, the Unified Field.
IMHO Science is what is, how, and what will happen. Religion and Philosophy is why or for what reason. The nature of the Supreme Intelligence who had that reason.
Man has always known the Universe & Life ... have an UNNATURAL origin by a very powerful intelligence.
Religion is a natural phenomena ... because only an intelligence ( like Man) makes Laws ( of Nature) and anything ( of the Universe) with clear purpose, form, design & FUNCTION.
Only an intelligence ( like Man) makes abstract & physical FUNCTIONS.
A Function ... PROCESSES inputs into outputs ... has set purpose, properties, form, design ... and requires specific matter, energy, space, time & Laws of Nature to exist & to FUNCTION.
Everything in the Universe ... is an Abstract ( time, space, Laws of Nature) or Physical ( matter, energy) FUNCTION.
Elemental particles, atoms, elements, compounds, molecules ... chemical & nuclear reaction ... are FUNCTIONS ... that process inputs into outputs that are Functions.
Science ( a function) relies completely on the Laws of Nature( Function) for Man ( a Function) to explain natural phenomena (Functions).
The Theory of Universal Functions ... is retroactively Sir Issac Newton's greatest discovery that he never realized he had made with his Watchmaker Analogy over 300 years ago.
The Machine Analogy & Fine Tuning are natural phenomena .... as anything that processes inputs into outputs & has clear purpose, properties, form & design ... MUST be a Function ... and only made by an intelligence.
This is not IMHO ... but simple, obvious and could hard facts about our Universe & Life. Everything is an abstract or physical Function.
@@abelincoln8885 If not to grok everything, one must IMHO know everything in order to say that there is no Supreme Creator.
Real Karl Popper on the fantasy of induction. It's time to grow up!
God is perfectly observable - his action is quantum of action.
*"his action is quantum of action"* - And _what_ does that mean?
@@johnyharris
Possibly the 11:45 moment.
When supernaturalists use the word "quantum", Heisenberg, Born and Pauli start laughing in their graves. I can hear them now.
@@johnyharris god was a discrete machine and all elementary particles are combinations of such discrete machines. Quantum mechanics describes discrete robot’s movements. I’ll show that on my channel.
@@andreasplosky8516 algoritmical universe gives at least pseudo random events. When result depends on the sequence of actions. I’ll show that on my channel.
God in its purest and omnipresent form metaphysicaly transcends all of the religions that we know today.... God as the ultimae realism is the law and nature of the forces governing all universes and is the alpha and omega of everything that exists.... it is unobservable but will reappear as the holy grail of physics.... the theory of everything.... thats what physicists call it ... but otherwise known and preconceived by layman as God..... the all encompassing one... the reason why there is something
LOL. We already have a perfectly good word for it You're describing reality. A god is superfluous
We cannot say a God was the prime mover but we also have no rational basis to believe the multitude of oxymoronic descriptions religion describes their God. Science has certainly filled in all the holes pertaining to major religious ex nielo world views and a creation some thousand of years ago. It is clearly shown that the biblical God was an adaptation of a multi God society and its myths were taken from other cultures. If a God is the prime mover it has no influence on our lives and the major religions personal God beliefs. With some confidence we can say the major religions are man made and untrue.
@closer to truth you are looking for is a construct there isnt absolute truth .
How do you know?
I (don't) love the prevalence of (pseudo-) argument by sheer assertion.
"There is no God, whah!"
"There is no absolute truth, whah!"
" Religion is bad, and all made up, whah!"
"Karl Marx is real, whah!"
" I want total socialism and YOUR Christian God is in the way, and there is no God or truth, and I want socialism, whah!"
Propagandist losers
There are 2 types of religion forced and free will guess which one is probably true. I went from a none religious atheist to a Christian all on my own with only God's help. So I know that Jesus is the only true way to God.
Theology is not about realism. It is only concerned with absurd fantasy, and make belief.
God as well as Reality where never defined really well. Not professionally at least.
Atoms are literally observable under special microscopes, not just electron microscopes. God is by definition not observable, unless you ask Moses of course, but he's a fictional character so there you have it 😂
I observe God
You haven't observed God. You don't want to. It's your politics. Your politics are more important to you.
Not everyone has your problem and you make yourself look like an arrogant bloviating fool to the rest of the people who have observed God. We exist.
But hey, you've never observed God, so nobody else has either. That's the way that works, right? That is your arrogance and your lack of intelligence and self-awareness won't allow you to see it.
You find it easier to be skeptical of 87% of the global population, rather than yourself.
@@williamesselman3102 No you do not. You have no faculty for doing so.
@@richiejohnson You know what I have observed better than Me?
Explain how
@@williamesselman3102 Apparently so. You are also unable to see through walls or detect unicorns under your bed. You mistake the functioning of your own brain for the presence of external entities.
Another so called Scientist selling Theology under the guise of searching for answers.
You don't need to be a scientist at all ... to know for a fact ... that only an intelligence ( like Man) makes, maintains, refines & improves ABSTRACT & PHYSICAL FUNCTIONS.
Anything ... that PROCESSES inputs into outputs ... has clear purpose, properties, form, design ... and requires specific matter, energy, space, time & Laws of Nature to exist ... is a FUNCTION.
Man has known for thousands of years ... that only an intelligence( like Man) makes Laws of Nature and everything in the Universe that has clear purpose, form, design & are Functions.
Religion is a natural phenomena, obeys the Laws of Nature, will always be observed and has a scientific explanation.
A religion believes it has identified the INTELLIGENCE that clearly made the Universe & Life.
Atheism is a religion where "the gods" have been replaced by the THEORIES, ideologies and secular beliefs of the only known intelligence in the Universe.
We all know for a fact ... that Nature & natural processes over 13.7 billion years .... will never make, maintain, refine & improve ... a machine.
The three types of physical machines are mechanical, electrical & molecular ( LIFE ).
Machine Analogies are also natural phenomena, obey the Laws of Nature, will always be observed and have a scientific explanation.
Machines & Life .... are physical FUNCTIONS ... composed entirely of FUNCTIONS.
Sir Issac Newton was absolutely correct with his Watchmaker Analogy over 300 years ago ... when he said the Universe ( & Life) are like a ... FUNCTION ... composed of FUNCTIONS ... that requires a FUNCTION maker ... to exist & to FUNCTION.
The Theory of Universal Functions ... is retroactively Sir Issac Newton's greatest discovery that he never realized he had made with his Watchmaker Analogy ... because he didn't fully understand the Scientific Method is an abstract Function that relies completely on the fixed Laws of Nature (functions) for Man ( a function) to explain natural phenomena (functions). The co-founder of Calculus ... didn't know that abstract & physical Functions are natural phenomena ... as is religion ... machine analogies ... fine tuning ... and ... thermodynamic Systems.
Newton didn't know the Universe is a FINITE Isolated Thermodynamic System with increasing entropy ... and all thermodynamic Systems originate from the SURROUNDING System(s) which must provide the matter, energy, space, time, & Laws of Nature.
Newton knew the Universe was a machine composed of machines ... but didn't realized that the Universe is a Function composed entirely of Functions, and that the inputs & outputs of each Function ... are functions.
Again. You don't need a Phd in Physics to know for a fact that only an intelligence( like Man) .. makes, maintains & "evolves" .... abstract & physical Functions.
There are only two realities:
1. Physical -- were matter & energy obey the Laws of Nature
2. Non-physcial -- the "unnatural" realm of the MIND of an intelligence(like Man).
Everything else is simply an abstract construct from the Mind of ... Man.
Who hurt you?
Science cannot address truth claims. Science cannot prove anything. To address truth you must do so outside of the realm of science.
@@deanodebo Wrong.
Science completely relies on the fixed Laws of Nature to explain natural phenomena.
Science can only be used to explain or "prove" things of the physical reality/existence.
This is why there are only two realities:
1. Physical - where matter & energy must obey the Laws of Nature
2. Non-physical -- the realm of the MIND of an intelligence where there are no Natural Laws.
Sciences can only be used on things of the Physical reality.
You can no use Science to "directly" prove God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, Angels & Demons, and the Human soul/spirit.
But you can science and facts about the Universe & Life from it, .... to prove the the Universe & Life have an UNNATURAL origin by an Intelligence ( like Man) and that the Mind of Man is both physical ( brain) and non-physical( eg a soul/spirit).
Only an intelligence ( like man) ... makes, maintain, improves & refines, ... abstract & physical Functions. This is fact & truth of the Physical reality ... which man has known for thousands of Years. Only an intelligence makes Laws ( of Nature ) and things ( of the Universe) with clear purpose, form, design and are FUNCTIONS. Everything in the Universe ... is an abstract or physical Function ... PROCESSES inputs into outputs ... have set properties, purpose, form & design .. and require specific Matter, energy, space, time & Laws of Nature to exist & to FUNCTION.
Man will always ... believe in a soul & spirit and a SUPERNATURAL intelligence that made everything ... because all men & woman know the origin of Law ..... & ..... anything that has clear purpose, design & is a FUNCTION.
Sir Issac Newton understood the limitation s of science but also the origin of Law & things with purpose, design & function. This is why he proposed over 300 years ago the Watchmaker Analogy to "prove" Intelligence Design.
Again. Science is limited to things that belong to the Universe and must obey the Laws of Nature. Science can not be used to prove a "specific" thing .... not of our Universe. You can only use facts & truths of the universe ... which clearly reveals the involvement of an unnatural or non-physical phenomena.
All Functions are made by Man( an intelligence).
A Function processes inputs into outputs & has set purpose, properties, form & design.
A machine is a physical Function composed of physical Functions ... made by Man (an intelligence).
A Man's body and all Life ... are physical Functions composed entirely of physical Functions.
Law is a abstract Function ... made by Man ( an intelligence) ...to provide structure, order, boundaries etc.
Everything in the Universe obeys a set of natural laws, where everything has clear purpose form, design & function.
All thermodynamic Systems originate from the SURROUNDING System(s) which must provide the matter, energy, space, time & Laws of Nature ... which are all Functions.
The Universe is a Natural System that has a beginning & is expanding ... and is a finite ISOLATED Thermodynamic System with increasing entropy.
The facts & sciences clearly proves without any doubt .... that the Universe has an UNNATURAL origin by an intelligence( like Man).
You can never scientifically prove a specific God, or specific anything that is not part of our Universe. But Science is clear that Abiogenesis, Evolution & a 13.7 billion year universe are nonsense fanfic.
Likewise you can uses facts about the human & animals minds, and the fact of the unnatural origin of the universe by an intelligence ... to prove the Mind of an intelligence is UNNATURAL & non-physical ... and the Mind of Man is both physical & non-physical.
There must be a causal link between the facts of the Universe and ... the mind of an intelligence ... for science to be used to "generically" prove non-physical, unnatural, ... or .. Supernatural phenomena.
@@paulallenscards capitalism
This guy believes in induction, God help us!
God,is observable but you must use a spiritual microscopes.
Mr. Kuhn, if you truly want to get an answer to your childhood question: "Why is there something instead of nothing?" which question ultimately leads you to a second question: whether there is God?, you will not get to know the truth about God just by asking people who claim to speak for God. You will need and have to hear from God himself if there is one. Has he ever spoken to humans before? What did he say? Can you see evidence of his Godship in what he said? You have your educational discipline in science, it is time that you personally examine what the "creator" says about himself and his supposedly creative work. In that way you will not be one sided in your search for Truth - Closer to Truth. In that case, I would suggest that you start with Job chapter 38 in the Bible. Please read the entire chapter. It is not long. I find Job chapter 26 verse 14 intriguing, where it says about how much humans know of him and his work: "Look! These are just the fringes of his ways; Only a faint whisper has been heard of him."
The Bible is a book that claim to speak on God’s behalf. No one has ever s spoken to God or heard from God. What we do know is the hiddenness of God. In fact God is hidden so well that he or she does is not real.
@@kos-mos1127 what is your proof for saying that God has never spoken to anyone? Have you ever objectively read the Bible? Have you carefully examined its prophetic, historical, and scientific contents? If you sincerely want to know how everything got started, don't you think you should examine every conceivable clue and link and avoid bias leaning of all sorts? Remember, you haven't even lived for a hundred years. How could you make a statement as if you have been alive all along and lived everywhere?
@@peweegangloku6428 I do not have to proof God has never spoken to anyone the burden of proof is on you making a positive claim that God has spoken to a particular person. The Bible is not the word of God nor was it dictated by God. The Bible is a historical myth that was crafted and edited for thousands of years. Evidence for God has not been found anywhere so believers pushed it into the realm of Nonexistence.
God does not add to our knowledge worst of all God explains nothing and makes no testable predictions. There is no reason to consider God as a sincere option.
@@kos-mos1127 It all comes down to how sincere a person is about understanding the true nature of this universe or multiverse. You have probably chosen the easiest and very likely, the incorrect path - blind dismissal without consideration of the implications. The question of how we got here is not one that can be approached with religious or theoretical fanaticism. This question defies every scientific theory that has ever been postulated. You understand that it is never possible to get anything out of absolutely nothing. Then how do you explain the source of the big bang - the beginning of the material universe? Do you realize there that something lies beyond the material universe? Be careful what you settle down with! Being dismissive without proof is not the time-tested scientific approach. Keep searching!
Weird science and freaking magic... advanced technology indistinguishable from Magic 🪄