Tested: Where Does The Tone Come From In A Microphone?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- After 6 months of testing mics, here's what I learned. All of the stars aligned to make this video possible.
The link to CMA's youtube channel (they will think I'm cool if you click it):
countrymusicassociation.link/...
0:00 - How do you compare mics?
1:53 - What mics should I test?
3:04 - How do you make useful graphs?
4:55 - Mics vs 57
5:28 - But why do mics sound different?
6:50 - Tube vs Solid State
7:36 - Cool vs uncool tubes
8:05 - Transformer vs no transformer
8:33 - Why is volume matching important?
9:11 - EQ in the circuit
9:39 - When do mics distort?
11:54 - Something very exciting
12:48 - Happy learned how to putt
13:19 - Circuits vs capsules vs grilles
14:05 - Messing up a capsule
15:07 - Preston White, capsule maker
16:50 - Capsule tests
18:03 - Only one option left
18:28 - This is Station West
20:19 - The "DB" Solid Tube
20:57 - But some questions were unanswered
21:18 - This is Ocean Way
22:07 - Every test I did
24:44 - The real reason I did all of this
25:25 - How do my mics compare?
26:43 - The Popcan
29:02 - Jam
paypal.me/jimlill
my site is jimlillmusic.com
@jimlill on instagram
Preston White's site is ptwaudio.com
All music in this video was played by me, with love.
___
This was the biggest I've ever dreamed for a video, and somehow all of the dreams came true.
I'm doing tests and comparisons because I love listening to music that sounds good, and I want to be prepared in all situations to make music that sounds good. Microphones were a blind spot for me. I didn't know how big the gap was between the tone of the mics that were used on my favorite records and the tone of the mics I use every day, and I was hoping to find a way to shorten that gap.
I'm very, very happy with where I ended up.
Hopefully you will be, too.
-Jim, 10/2/2023 - เพลง
paypal.me/JimLill
So happy to have this video out there. Hope you enjoy it.
I dunno, the Happy Gilmore reference got me 😂😂😂
Thanks for doing the work Jim.
If I knew car repair and lived in Nashville, I'd fix your car door handle for free just to say thanks for how you're helping musicians make good choices on their gear. Then I'd be tempted to get a Bumper Sticker that read "I fixed Jim Lill's car door handle." 😁
So Happy to have a new Jim Lill video to watch! Thanks Jim.
So when do we get the video of you just playing some of your own compositions? Will we get to hear the culmination of all this data you've collected in a recording of an original piece?
Thank you!
This man is singlehandedly demistifying every myth in the audio industry and deserves a spot in music history. Thank you Jim.
I agree with this.
Dude is straight up destroying tens of thousands of dollars worth of conventional audio engineering “education” with science and hard data.
I. Fucking. Love. It.
This is way overdue.
💯
every video gets cringier and cringier. i think it has something to do with his humble brags, they are so annoying
@@patrickderp1044 Where's your videos?
I'm a musician and middle school science teacher and your videos have gotten my toughest students to actually care about science. They hate school and love music and these videos are straight science. They are designing their own experiments around music and are getting awesome grades, getting lots of positive attention, and crushing real science. Thanks man!
I'm a middle school STEAM teacher and will base a project on these videos.
Science isn’t in books, it’s in experimenting in the world around us!
I was a tough middle school student and I'm glad to hear you're working with your students
You sir are a legend. The world needs more teachers like you.
Wow, thank you for sharing that, you are an awesome teacher !
Considering the SM57 as a standard for measurement as well as a standard for expected usage is a great move, and a testament to how grounded this approach is.
The SM57 was always my go-to mic, but if Jim puts his into production, that'll be my go-to mic... I don't think anyone has done this much research before production, but I may be wrong
😂😂😂
I need to buy more 57s.
was never a standard for measurement. just write that doesn't make it true.
I disagree. With tools like soundID or REW that can even out the response of your monitors and room knowing the actual characteristics of a mic is far more useful. I don't want to know frequency and transient response relative to a sm57 I want to know how it's going to respond to my source
My very first XLR open box 39$ from eBay
Jim. I work at a 17,000 seat venue called The Budweiser Stage, in Toronto Canada (4th largest city in North America, apparently). Its an outdoor venue that runs May thru October. I've been at this game since 1979, as a preteen. Between my crew and the touring crews that drop into the venue, your videos have been the most discussed topics in Audio that I can remember. Thanks for your hard work. I makes my work, a lot easier.
This guy . . . CMA, do yourself a massive favor and just hire him for a series. The amount of problem-solving, engineering, and artistry is mind-blowing. Keep up the great work Jim!
He seems like a very smart man and maybe he could help with the manufacturing of the "perfect" affordable capsule.
@@ireallyreallyreallylikethisimg Microphone Parts has already done this work :-)
@@LaterHolmes yeah you're right their ak capsule is pretty unbeatable
Gotta say the indiana jones bit with the SM57 was so good. I cackled.
the pedal steel theme just after it!
This guy is helping me build the cheapest but highest fidelity recording setup
I just watched a musician conduct a scientific experiment with more rigor than most engineering student I know and even some researchers... Plus your ability to practically apply your electric circuits knowledge exceeds that of some people I know who somehow graduated as engineers. Well done Jim, glad TH-cam sent your video my way!
This was so exceedingly well-produced! I’m a former audio engineer and your very scientific and technical approach, right down to the electrical engineering (and soldering a new mic into existence) was just awesome.
I was so excited about the video that I posted my comment above only half way through. The last half of the video was even more amazing! From gold sputtering new diaphragms (auto-correct wanted me to type “new diapers”, and I almost did because my inner 12-year-old is undisciplined), to testing every major mic in Nashville, to creating a $20,000 sounding studio mic out of a soda can, the only mic with a built-in 5¢ refundable can deposit in some states, to the History channel level of editing! This video deserves some serious love in the audio community, and none of the toxic love it will probably get from “boutique” mic companies. (Autocorrect wanted me to type “Botox” mic companies. I could have left it that way and I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow, because they couldn’t.)
@@DanielGBenesScienceShows Yeah the more of these videos I watch, the more convinced I am that "good tone" comes through a very small number of hardware factors. At the end of the day, it's EQ and compression and preamps, I think. And even those are probably simpler than we imagine. Experience and a good ear makes a huge difference, it seems.
Amazing work ❤. My favorite combination besides every mic (or synt or bass) into a real vintage professionally refurbished Neve 1073 is: a Sennheiser MD441 into a Neumann V476. Immediate vintage meat and clarity. The mic preamp episode will become epic I guess 😅.
@@rottendeadite Yes! When you think of how the tiniest physical differences can dramatically change a sound, it shows how important experimentation is.
@@DanielGBenesScienceShows oh he has not demystified anything, there is a lot more to it if you don't record a distorted speaker.
I'm speechless. The cinematography, the humor, the testing, the playing, the results, the DIY... all flawless. you've outdone yourself again, Jim. it's unbelievable how much mythology you've managed to shatter and explain just by taking things and wondering if they've ever been truly, fairly compared before. and on top of that, the video documentation is entertaining. Cheers, man.
He’s like guitar myth busters, and nobody has to see a grown man wearing a beret.
oh he has not demystified anything, there is a lot more to it. if you don't record a distorted speaker.
The DATA !
@@pongmaster123 sure, but he recorded the exact same speaker in the exact same way with the exact same source material. Doesn't matter if the speaker is distorted if the mics all get the same signal.
@@onetriple4250 yes its so unbelievably stupid his "tests" only measure frequency. there would need to be a lot of time based measurements like transient response etc etc. the only way to do that is with real vocals or real acoustic instruments.
Back when I worked at Electro Voice we had 2 anechoic chambers.
One for measuring speakers - a super flat mic with known calibration curve and a specific test sequence measures the speakers.
But there is another chamber. This one for measuring microphones.
It is everything in reverse.
A super flat speaker with known calibration curve and a specific test sequence measures the microphones.
something something chicken or egg
My question there is: how in the world do they determine what is flat? Surely, to measure how flat something is you need either what is a precisely flat (or precisely known curve) microphone or speaker. But how do you get the first one?
Dude named "Heisenberg" had a thing or two to say about that.
I cant believe that what i just saw is free ,i dont get it ,this dude just ...i m hooked on without even getting bored as i usually do,and this dude just makes something that in my university of music technology felt so boring although i wanted to learn ,he made it feel fresh ,because HE JUST DID IT ,he took the theory only to help him do the things you are supposed to experience and learn and showed the result to us .This is just beautiful, thank you so much ,thank you
well he did it all wrong. but if you want to learn from a beginner, go for it :-)
@pongmaster123 look,I believe you are a grown up and you know that when you say someone is wrong ,you should explain why ,you took the time to read my comment and to write yours ,but only to disagree?
@@pongmaster123
Can you please steer me to the folks who do it right, so that I know the difference between the right way and wrong way?
I think this proves we should just be making music on whatever we have, working on better songs instead of buying better gear. Nice job.
Great songs, with great arrangements that are well played on entry level gear will ALWAYS sound as good as they need to. I've heard a lot of fantastically produced rubbish over the years, all recorded in multi-million dollar studios. There's no substitute for talent and a preparedness to do the work to polish a song into a great end-product.
Well, room treatment is still fundamental to getting a good sound. But of course, the song is the most important. Without it, the rest is usleless.
The best part is that unless something is truly garbage most of the "grail" stuff is just that way because it was used for one thing or another. If the musician plays to the strengths of their moderately priced gear then that gear will be strong.
I've come to learn that quality in music gear *almost exclusively* refers to build quality. Marketing is a hell of a drug.
Up to a certain point. You should definitely invest $200+ into a good condenser microphone because there's a clear difference in quality between that and a $40 microphone but less between that and a $3000 microphone.
@@RichardCampion-gh4rbyea the sennheiser sounded really good actually
That Lewitt FET vs Tube comparison reminds me of something every sound engineer has done...
When you adjust the EQ and get something sounding way better; only to realize the EQ is in bypass mode. 😂
Thanks for taking the time to make this video!
What Lewitt scam lol.
Lewitts are the Revv of the microphone world. the only reason anyone knows about them is because TH-camrs are given them to promote, and that's usually the only place you see them: in the hands of TH-camrs. to see that the two circuits in the same mic are basically just an excuse to charge more money is very satisfying to me
@@LordofDiamondsMetal , I agree and disagree.
I actually use several Lewitt mics because I like how their capsules sound and behave. (040 match instead of Behringer C2 or Rode M5 mics for Hammer mics on live piano, mtp440dm instead of a SM57 on a snare)
They aren't SE electronics or Austrian audio, but they do have some good modern mics at a good price.
@@TheAT5000 I'm sure they don't sound bad, as any TH-cam demonstration will show you, but my problem is how artificial their entry into the recording world has been. They came out of nowhere and were suddenly on EVERY gear TH-camr's channel, just like Revv, yet to this day I have never seen either a Lewitt mic or a Revv amp in the wild. You mentioned Austrian Audio, and they're kinda the same story except that they have essentially gotten their name out there not only by giving shit to every gear channel, but also by being very vocally salty about losing their jobs at the Vienna AKG shop that Harman's new parent, Samsung, shut down. I also have yet to see any Austrian Audio equipment in a setting that's not a gear review/demo channel.
My local GC did start to stock Lewitts recently though, but only the low tier 150 dollar ones. Maybe it's time to try one for myself, but again, the marketing way that they've found their way into public conscience irks me.
I liked it when you rolled your window down to open your driver's door. That shows true dedication. You definitely have your priorities in order!
I am a scientific (physics) and have a passion for acoustics. And microphones as well. Some parts of your tests have already been done (I think you know that), but not revealed to the public, because it would just break down the marketing hype. Most of what you did can be applied to many many electronic devices. Marketing leads the world, not science :-D I am so glad you made this video for everybody.
Jim is essentially spearheading the way in the marketing of science in audio.
The “SM-57 = flat” is actually such a good idea. I always see frequency curves for monitors, microphones, amplifier circuits, pickups, and I always end up listening with my eyes and guessing which I’m going to like more. Having a flat reference is such a good idea. I would kill for a pickup comparison with a stock Fender single coil as flat, or any kind of music gear comparison like this. Keep up the good work :)
What’s a ‘stock’ Fender single coil?
@@jastervoid yeah, agreed here. Pickups change too much to consider any of them a "standard". I would still love to see Jim dig into the subject, but I can't imagine normalizing against a specific pickup.
When Jim said he's always "choosing between whatever microphones are in the building", my mind went straight to the 57... "It's *gotta* be the 57!" Then he laid it on the clipboard. "YESSSS!" The workhorse! And the ultimate frame of reference for us to know what all those fancy mics sound like. Thanks Jim!!! Loved the Indiana Jones bit, too! 😀
Except there's no such thing as a 'stock Fender single coil'. That's why so many great guitarists have favourite instruments which they cherish above all others.
Guitar nutz 2actually has some.
I AM BLOWN AWAY AT THE CONCLUSION 😱🤯😵 Pre-amps are next!!! This is Soooo empowering to us all Jim!!! Thank you!!! You are directly responsible for us having a clear and definitive understanding of what we're doing and how to achieve our musical and tonal objectives. Your videos are the single greatest contribution to the improvement of our craft in our time. Thank you friend
Couldn't have said this any better
so glad he tipped us off about whats next. gonna put all my stupid expensive pre's on reverb tomorrow haha
he didn't reveal anything beside a frequency comparison. he is a bloody beginner and does not know how to even approach microphones.
What insane amount of effort for the music community. Thank you Jim! 🙏🙏
You continue to be the most important music “gear TH-camr” in existence. Please never stop! You single-handedly can save us from wasting time obsessing over gear and focus on MAKING MUSIC! YOU ARE INVALUABLE!!!
he is a beginner and has no clue, but no wonder all the youtube kiddies get excited!
Another absolute winner from the biggest mythbuster in the music space on TH-cam. Well done, Jim.
oh he has not demystified anything, there is a lot more to it if you don't record a distorted speaker.
@@pongmaster123Such as?
@@marian-gabriel9518 A lot of the important details that “make the mic” (distortion profile, transient response, off-axis response) get lost. Also, these things matter more when the sound is being recorded for the first time, vs making a recording of a recording.
@@pongmaster123 Ahhah...got it. Thanks for taking the time to answer! :)
I wonder how much time and money Jim has saved us in total.
I'm not sure that you've addressed this, but dynamic mics are truly varied to the point where testing from a single point source will not reveal the good or bad points of said mics. The difference among them is the proximity affect, which differs from mic to mic, even the same mics with sequential serial numbers, based upon the various factors that affect the compliance in the diaphragm. And of course the pickup pattern, often something that is the physical reverse of what you would call a phase plug in a dynamic transducers "horn" driver. The elements are identical, but practical uses are opposite. However the Beatles' engineer, Mal, finding the bass pickup characteristics of proximal or "tight miking" a bass drum to be abysmal, so he actually placed a 12" woofer in front of the bass drum, making the world's first large diaphragm dynamic bass drum transducer. The AKG D12e followed closely behind this revelation... and everyone has one of those little EV omni mics for miking snare drums, because being omni, they pick up less of the proximal ring and more surface than other mics at the same proximity. Another well balanced mic from AKG was the D19, which was rebadged as several other brands sold them as their own, such as EV, NEUMAN, AND EVEN NORELCO!
Not sure who dreamed this first, but both the D19 and SM57 are rear ported, allowing for full phase representation of the low bass frequencies, and able to produce them accurately at ridiculous sound pressures because of this design! That's why you never ever buy a '57 that's had the wind screen taped. Because if you sing through it, it sounds like you're holding your nose, in fact, the act of holding your nose is an example of the same physioacoustic phenomenon. Condensers are another thing altogether... and PZM mics are a favorite of mine. Ribbon mics can also beat out most if they are high quality... but every mic has their strong and weak points... and potential purpose! Also the grateful dead had an interesting take using custom sennheiser microphones during the days they used "the wall of sound" their engineer (in more than one way, as he provided most of the LSD in the free world for all of the 60s) had an idea that inspired most noise rejecting phone mics used today, but he used it as a feedback eliminator. In theory it worked. In practice it worked a little... But what was done was to have two identical microphone elements... Facing an opposite directions on the same microphone barrel... One is sung into while the other cancels out all of axis noises... So something like feedback would be off axis... As it will be coming from a very large speaker system that was uniquely set behind a microphone's and the backline.... This would never fly in scenarios today... But they were thinking outside the box... Way outside... And as long as they weren't playing at deafening levels it actually did work... Mostly...
The singer would sing into the front of the Mike, which would pick them up exclusively. And the back of the mic would not pick them up... Or at least would not pick them up to any great degree. So with an out of phase relationship, the only thing that would make it to the board would be the out of phase signals.... Anything that was going into both microphones. Equally would be equally canceled ...out or nothing. Theoretically zero dB. This same thing is used on modern cell phones as they are often used in loud environments. It allows the user to be heard and for the outside noises to be canceled. I only mention these things because of the great marriage of experiments that have gone before this, and the reason that many of these microphones were conceived of. It's interesting to note that the SM58 and the SM57. Were in production for a long time before they really caught on. Microphones at the time were considered slightly vulgar... That is you wouldn't see a singer with a microphone. Pressed up against his face as you so often do today... They were mostly held below and at chest level four announcers and singers alike. Supposedly this took advantage of the chest tones and also nasal tones that are often not picked up by microphones used as intimately as they are today. And the s m fifty seven and fifty eight were microphones that were close proximal microphones. If you look at the footage from Woodstock, you will see that there is a modified. SM56 if memory serves right. Not a very good mic or even very good at resisting feedback... I short time after Woodstock. You would only see these microphones used in dispatch or four line cooks in fast food restaurants... Which was where the SM58s and SM57 were before this. But as things quickly changed and got much louder, those microphones were the desirable ones, resisting the most feedback. You have to also consider that in the world of dynamic TRANSDUCERS, (including the classic RIAA approved phono cartridges) that the Shure company was way ahead of the game and still remains so. Up there with AKG, for sure.
Single-handedly this is the most important musical channel when it comes to equipment that I have come across, Jim is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest,
he is a beginner and has no clue, but no wonder all the youtube kiddies get excited!
So what do you have to offer?. If you were so experienced and have such a wealth of knowledge. I checked out your channel. There’s nothing specifically impressive about that. So what do you know that he isn’t revealing? What is the expertise of knowledge? Bet you $100 you don’t got the guts to even answer this comment
I love the improvement in the production quality of these videos, you obviously are super passionate about these videos
Yes the new production had me hooked all the way through. Never a dull moment.
This series is truly a service to the world. The dedication and follow-through on some pretty tedious work is impressive.
Happy to see you get sponsored in a way that doesn't interfere with your goals!
27:46 Shockmount of the year!❤
Oh man, how did I miss that?! 😂 Good find.
loved that portion of the video when you showed fet/tube differences lmao, some people would sacrifice their lives that the tubes sound better
My _man,_ that was some nice work. Jim Lill out here just _evaporating_ tonal and gear related hype, myths, misconceptions and confirmation bias one excellent video investigation at a time. Also, *HUGE* props to the Country Music Association for recognizing, appreciating and supporting such a worthy young content creator in his endeavors to experiment, learn and and share his results in a _free_ format that is a fantastic resource to musicians. _THAT'S_ what's up, CMA. Way to be. Matching - dead to nuts - the sound of Ocean Way's vintage ELA M 251 with a $499 DIY _kit_ microphone you built yourself without any prior mic building experience. _THEN_ just to match it *AGAIN* using the same capsule, the circuit electronics of a used, $49 MXL condenser and a mic body and head basket made out of a soda can and some window screen???? This is the Lord's work. 5 stars, two thumbs up and a few bucks to the PayPal tip jar as a small thanks.
haha, spot on
he didn't reveal anything beside a frequency comparison. he is a bloody beginner and does not know how to even approach microphones.
@@pongmaster123 Did you see the playing at the end? Did you see all of that soldering he did? He's no beginner.
You are the most important audio technology youtuber to ever grace the site. These tests you do have the potential to save people so much money, and to make it so much easier to the get the sounds we're looking for. Thank you.
he didn't reveal anything beside a frequency comparison. he is a bloody beginner and does not know how to even approach microphones.
After watching this guy for a while, I have come to the conclusion that as a guitar player, I need a guitar with pick ups and that I should plug it into an amplifier. I should then purchase a microphone, and learn where in front of the amplifier cabinet that microphone needs to go. I can get killer tone this way!
I mean all this as a compliment, I have spent so much time, money, and research effort trying to get a sound that nobody is likely to care about but me. And I'm not saying everything sounds exactly the same, but when I plug more or less straight in to my little orange amp in front of my 2 x 12 and make it up with an SM 57, it sounds just fine…
… Jim, are we married to the same woman somehow? Because that is exactly how my wife would react to that exact situation L O L
Amazing how you condensed (pun intended) this crazy amount of research into 30mins of video. Legendary work.
I'm shocked that it took this long for someone to take the time to demystify all of this stuff. You're doing God's work, buddy, keep it up.
oh he has not demystified anything, there is a lot more to it if you don't record a distorted speaker.
@@pongmaster123 It sounds like he killed one of your sacred cows, I'm sorry for your loss.
@@420Travesty he is a beginner. these miks need to be tested on acoustic instruments not a distorted speaker, but i see hes audience is not professionals.
@@pongmaster123 Copy pasting that everywhere huh, don't worry, companies will still pay you.
@@pongmaster123 ok then mr professional make your own video and prove him wrong. I'll wait.
I'm not a microphone engineer, so a lot of this surprised me. All your guitar amp/cab stuff on the other hand, didn't shock me and it was so refreshing to smell the searing sacred cows. What's hard for me to wrap my brain around, is that there's no way most microphone engineers don't know all what was discovered through this video's journey, yet truth somehow gets held close to the chest as though keeping the consumer ignorant is somehow a better reality.
Thank you Jim. These videos are so fantastic. Keep those sacred cows burning on the alters, so that the people can be empowered to make their own fate.
oh, they definitely know!!!! I was raised in the religion of pro audio, and I had to use EXTREME cognitive dissonance to stay in the cult...Once the Amazing James Randi broke me out of this, my penance ever since has been to test and expose everything, constantly, in much the same way Jim lil does...he is truly the Banacek of audio!
"keeping the consumer ignorant is somehow a better reality."
if you only care about making money it sure is.
@@kaiserruhsam for one time buyers, yes. But build trust with your market and they'll be loyal forever.
@@gollumthewicked or i could use marketing to make customers identify with my product and they'll rabidly defend me online for free regardless of quality.
maybe someone working a craft cares about their reputation at the cost of a quick buck but corporations don't, and publicly traded ones have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders.
Every engineer I know works on the basis that if it sounds good, use it. And that depends on the audio source and the mic placement. the cost of the microphone is irrelevant so long as it produces the sound you want. And as you can see from the video, the range of EQ curves produced by different microphones is vast.
The real magic that a professional engineer has is knowledge of what the different mics sound like, pairing them appropriately with the sound source, and then placing the mic in the magic position. And there really is a magic position. 1cm closer or further away will resonate with different frequencies.
I agree with the main thrust of what this video is saying. There's a lot of vintage classic fetishizing and unjustified snobbery in the world of pro audio. It's every bit as bad as the nonsense that gets slung around in the world of wine. But it must be said that just comparing frequency response graphs doesn't tell you everything.
Two words: time domain. Time domain analysis is where you learn about stuff like transient response and spectral phase shift. Two mics that have similar looking freq. graphs might sound pretty different form each other. Adjectives like "smooth", "buttery", "crisp", "detailed", "velvety", "silky" can all be totally valid descriptions of how mics with different time domain characteristics sound, even though those same words are often heard from wine reviewers of dubious credibility. And the actual underlying physics that create those different subjective impressions will not be captured at all by your rig, which only deals with frequency. The "brighter-darker-thinner-fatter" descriptors are your main frequency domain adjectives, along with "tubby, boxy, nasal, shrill, sharp, harsh" describing spectral characteristics in specific ranges. The frequency domain stuff is a lot easier to measure and put in a simple graph, which is why it's what you see in marketing materials all the time. Time domain analysis can tell a different story for the same mic in different usage situations, and radically different stories for different mics even if the frequency responses are similar. It gets diabolically complicated, I'm afraid.
And your testing rig also doesn't give you any info about stuff like proximity and off-axis response which definitely contribute to a mic's sound, especially in real-life usage in a room with sounds in the air and reflections and whatnot.
I still like the video, though. A lot of what it says is true, but it's just way more complicated. And sometimes those crazy-expensive mics really are better even if a frequency graph doesn't show why that is.
Excellent work! Thank you for confirming what I've always preached: "Do they sound different? Yes. Enough to make a bad song good? No -- Get back to practice."
Gotta say, those Mic Parts kits sound freaking great.
If this took 6 months, the mic pre video will be out next October!
Thank, Jim!
We love our 3 MicParts mics. A C12, 47 and 67 capsule, respectively.
Damn.. I can't believe that Popcan mic rivaled the Telefunken, you're answering all the questions I've had in my head about tone, can't wait for the mic pre video!
The popcan mic was indeed the shit.
I love how he immediately reveals his upper midwestern origins by calling it a "pop" can
Not just rivaled, but essentially became the same mic.
@@MmtS mmm... there are still sound differences between the two, but hell, two of those old Telefunkens probably sound that different from each other just because of old manufacturing tolerances
@@LordofDiamondsMetal just to correct you, those tolerances aren't old but still here. And components drift over time as well, so back then they could've done everything right but just time having a different effect on the mics.
The amount of quality on your videos is awesome!, in ALL aspects: editing, research, testing, results, etc., These are also the best videos demystifying all the snake-oil in audio world!
This is gold!!! I’m totally going to try DIYing a mic like this. There a few things I’d like to point out though:
1. The distance between the capsule/coil and the grill of a mic varies from mic to mic so measuring mic placement by the front of the grill isn’t going to be entirely accurate
2. Different mics respond differently to proximity effect as well as off-axis
3. Transient response is also a factor
It would be cool if you did an extension of this experiment that took these factors into account!
yep, the capsule in a SM7 for example is a few inches back compared to a 57
Audio Test Kitchen uses a laser to measure the distance between the speaker and the capsule, not the grille. It's more accurate, but harder to set up.
Regarding your first point, would it actually matter when recording ? Meaning, I think most of the time we don't even think about the distance between grill and capsule unless we are trying to phase align multiple mics recording the same thing... I agree that it would be more scientifically accurate, but I think that artistically, what he did makes sense... Indeed, would be nice to see what happens when the distance between capsule and source are strictly the same
Your "Searching for Tone" series is the best stuff I've seen on TH-cam, and I'm not even a musician
Incredible work Jim! As a live audio engineer for 25 years, the real world application of mics is also dependent on many unrelenting rules of physics where things like off axis tone, noise floor, transient response, off axis rejection, (heck, even durability in my line of work), etc also matter quite a bit. That said, this video is significant and shows the methodology that anyone who's serious about finding the right gear should emulate. Well done!
Would love to see this post pinned! Absolutely amazing video, but comparing super-close-miked recordings of a small speaker definitely doesn't tell the full story of a mic.
@@alejandroleiva50I think that's the wrong conclusion. The only differences not covered in this video are things outside of the mic choice.
@@TomusMedia I understand what you mean, But mic choices are also dependent on how youll mic something and a lot more. You can't Isolate just the mic. Room , distance, angle, the subject you are recording are never outside mic choice, they are actually what affects mic choices. the close micing as a reference is unrealistic for a lot of other things, specially with the choice of mic. Just the fact that your choice of mic will do change just by moving it a foot from what you are recording. there is a lot of question marks in the video if the video will be used by someone as a reference to form their opinion on certain mics. The video wont be able to give a definite answer, but its still very informative and absolutely amazing.
Absolutely, he should've included directivity, as it plays a hige part on how a mic is used
@@lennart637 Though I have to admit, it doesnt take away anything from what he did as much as understanding the parts of the mic and how they affect the tone. People just need to slow down on making conclusion based on it.
You have seriously done something here, I am just blown away. Job well done, what a service you have provided to musicians and engineers everywhere. Everyone should see this video. I’ll be recommending this to any of my friends with GAS 😂 thank you for your hard work, this is a great thing.
The amount of work that goes into every one of these videos just baffles me. I watch them a lot, they are comfortable and soothing. Besides the rigorous testing and no bullshit approach I always notice that the editing, and camera work improves on every single video and it makes them so sattisfying to watch. Great work!!
You are doing something I have dreamed about for 30 years of playing music, and destroying some of the most pernicious bullshit I've heard musicians say....and I love it!!!
great that you love your own idiocy.
@@pongmaster123 hurr durr
I feel like this is the only content left on this planet to which I'm exactly the target audience for. So thank you for these absolutely wonderful 29 minutes and 50 seconds. Your videos are mesmerizing.
I didn’t even realize this was that long lol, I watched through the whole thing thinking it was way shorter. Incredible work isn’t it? Hands down some of the best money anyone has ever spent.
The sound is not in the microphone or the preamplifier, the sound is in your head. Good video 🙌
bro you are one of the best detailed audiophile channel here on youtube
The video production quality is getting insane, props for being some of the best content on youtube.
As a sound engineer I can say that you’re a legend for doing this!
Thanks !
this is incredible work. love comparing everything to a 57 since literally everyone has one.
I don’t….. though I do have some 58s 😂😂😂
TH-cam recommended me this a while ago, and has been persistent about it. I'm not a musician, but I enjoy the engineering aspect. I see this guy, he claims to be a musician and not an engineer or sound engineer. Sure all musicians "engineer" their sound to an extent as well as their own sound engineers.
This is different. This guy's methodology and approach to these videos (the guitar one was awesome) is PURE Scientific Method, cleanest data collection within reason, and conclusions based off that data to form instruments and mics that are entirely reverse engineered.
If this dude doesn't have engineering or electrical/electronic related degrees to this field, I will be amazed. That means this guy has the engineering brain, but just makes music and does engineering as a hobby!
Jim, you are bringing a before and after to all the entry level musicians starting to get into recording. Please, keep blowing everyone's minds!
Since you treated the SM57 as flat, In theory could you deconvolve your samples against the SM57 to make Impulse responses of all the mics.
Then anyone with an SM57 can approximate the sound of any other microphone by throwing on your impulse response.
You could sell those impulse responses and make quite a bit of money I bet.
Surely you could just look at the graph and EQ it yourself in post? He did do just that in the video after all, though it was the "same" microphone. Maybe a future test he could do?
That already exists, search for Microphone Impulse Response Project
@@RabidBeast45it’s much more complex than just the equalization. You have things like how fast the diaphragm starts and stops moving and how much it resonates/ adds overtones.
everyone hates pantone, open source information
@@cgtbrad yeah i was wondering about these things. so do these eq curve tests worth anything?
TH-cam algorithm did a fantastic job sending me here. This is the most comprehensive microphone study probably ever done ✅- I love stuff like this - I’ll help you get your door fixed 😊
This is legit one of the coolest audio videos I have ever seen.
he is a beginner and has no clue, but no wonder all the youtube kiddies get excited!
This is so incredible. Thanks for spending your time and money producing such an informative video! Keep up the fantastic work
👀
How does this compare to your experience? The only thing I can think of that wasn't tested would be transient response.
@@privateer2584 I don’t have experience testing to this level of accuracy which is why this is so great. Also, I don’t really review stuff based on the fact that it has a tube or not, and for the most part I ignore most of the marketing material. I just provide my tests of the mic so people can hear how it sounds and then I offer my opinion on it. I’m also not perfect which is why I advocate getting multiple opinions before buying g. People should buy a mic because they like how it sounds and how it meets their needs, not because of the technology that makes it up.
I was talking in my discord a few weeks ago about how I want to find out how different capsule materials and different transformers impact the sound, but I didn’t know how to do any of it. Here Jim does all that and it’s awesome. I still want to do some of the tests and knowing that there’s a gentleman in Nashville who can make capsules, I may steal that contact. Haha.
ikr !!! this video ruined my brained in the best way oh my god. Thank god for Jim Lill
@@privateer2584transient response is represented in the frequency response as well! When a mic responds quickly to a transient, all we are really saying is that it is more sensitive to high frequencies.
How in the hell does this channel not have like 1m+ subs. These videos are the most quintessential info about gear and sound. These will save hundreds of yours of discussion and arguing, thousands of dollars worth of gear, and make music more accessible and less "velvety", "creamy" and "sparkly". Thank you so much for your work and dedication, you definitely have left your mark on music and recording already. So f'n good.
Where are you, Jim? Missing your content. Hoping all is okay.
Jim Lill, the man who can make a rabbit hole out of anything! Another Brilliant Mythbuster!
I have genuine gut-busting laugh out loud moments when Jim makes those huge price disparity comparisons that sound almost identical! :D
This has been the most useful and revealing video about mic's I have ever seen. This is top tier educational content and I can't express how much I appreciate all the work you put into this. Absolutely brilliant!
didn't reveal anything. he is a bloody beginner and did the whole experiment wrong. if this is your brilliant, good luck in life.
1000%, never did i expect anyone would go to the level of comparing the number of screws used 😵💫
@@pongmaster123 What did he do wrong?
You sir, are the reason the internet exists. Absolutely love your content, and appreciate all the hard work and troubleshooting that goes into this. It is not lost on us. Thank you.
OMG, what a dedication, everytime I thought this was the peak of the video it became even better
Wowww. This is beautiful work, your guitar videos were already some of my favourites ever - truely revealing stuff - but as an engineer I can’t convey how much I appreciate what you’re doing. Bring on the mic pres!!!
I can’t even imagine the amount of work that went into this incredible project. Thank you!
And never once did this man ask for any subs or likes on this video but he put 20x the work in than any stream would ever would
Landed here because Tom Scott mentioned this video in his newsletter. Wow, what an amazing effort. Love the PopCan mic! My own uke playing and voice are bad enough without mediocre recordings making it worse. I'm not sure how much I've learned or absorbed, but I am far more AWARE than I was before. Thanks!
Consistently, every time you release one, I tell everyone I know in the music production industry about the new Coolest Video of All Time. This is nothing short of genius. I was thinking about the question "what's a mic everyone can agree is neutral?" and you answering that with "the SM57." is a stroke of brilliance. And of course, the more I played the video, the more I realized that is actually the truth: anything not an SM57 is considered a "more colorful" or "altered" sound; all the weirdness in the response of the SM57 is just, what we come to expect by putting a microphone on something. There is a reason you can get away with great sound by just putting an SM57 on everything in the room. And then the revealing of what the actual differences are between mics, their capsules, and the technology therein... wow, Jim. Incredible work. And a huge thanks to the CMA to making this possible. This is just amazing, real, actionable results. Thank you so much.
It's a perfect reference point. It takes some thing you know, and shows you how different something else is from that so you can decide if you want it or not.
The blind test at the end was unreal. I was expecting them to sound close given what was shown throughout the video but didn't expect them to be that close. Another amazing video
Our tiny speakers on our phones just don't translate sound differences very well. Mics and speakers are huge in shaping sound.
@@davidayers8394 Not everyone uses their phone to watch these videos. I watch on my computer with a nice sound system and they sounded the same.
@@davidayers8394 There just really isn't a big difference, even through headphones.
@@Z6D4C4 I disagree. Our ears perceive things differently than just what is read on a graph. Different mics have their strengths and weaknesses, just as we do. Placement can change a mic tremendously. Even slight adjustments can make a great difference. I had a professor in college that would actually stick his head in a KICK DRUM just to find the "sweet spot". He had the best sounding drum tracks I've heard and was consistently getting them, even with different drummers. I did the same thing with pianos and was asked to second on sessions just because I got great piano sounds. But even when you found that sweet spot, different mics reacted to it differently.
@@davidayers8394 I'm just saying the specific example as tested is not very different.
I literally got chills during the final comparison. Incredible. Thanks so much for doing this and sharing your work in such a fun and informational way.
The whole SM57 thing made me start violently nodding my head yes and then I liked and subscribed immediately. I like you
So glad I never went deep enough with my gear to replace working tubes or transformers with fancier ones, they for sure sounded identical in your comparison. Great video, looking forward to the next one!
So many musicians, and "musicians" do this type of thing-- the only difference here is that Jim doesn't start with the assumption that spending money makes him sound better, so he doesn't end up convincing himself that an imperceptible difference that an oscilloscope couldn't detect was worth spending thousands of dollars on.
Guitar TH-cam is really starting to shatter the "tone in the tubes" myth and I love it
Another instant classic
cant wait for the next edition of "were back with jim lill, im going to rip apart interfaces and preamps today to figure out further secrets to sound. "
lmfao, i wish i documented all the musical stuff i learned through the years, to share with the world more so, keep up the crazy work Jim, dope stuff man...
Fresca is the best, and I have zero reservations about stating this here.
This is my favorite video you've done so far. I love microphones and this was the most clear eyed (eared?) deconstruction of mics and myths about them I've ever witnessed.
Thank you so much.
As a musician and someone who sells microphones for a living, I ADORE this video. Amazing work!!
You are doin the loards work good sir! I bout fell out of my chair twice and I'm only halfway through the video! I work at Sweetwater and whether they like it or not ALL my coworkers are seeing this. Bravo Jim, Bravo!
*excellent* analysis!
The tone comes from the song as it speaks to your soul, which informs your hand and fingers, which drive your instrument, which are all more important. You already know this. Good article though brother. Carry on.
Really nice playing in that end acoustic pop can section. However, every mic goes into a desk where an engineer/producer tweaks the eq. You are going to end up noticing it was someone else's "human ear" that decided what you heard on those tracks you love, which is probably how it should be.Great work, so much fun and totally interesting. Thanks
No. I have watched all of his videos and loved them, but he didn't make that point specifically. But thanks for chiming in. @@Cue-Ball.
Please make a video on the transient response with different microphone capsules and circuitry!!!! I feel like that's also a huge difference when I compare condensers vs dynamics vs ribbons, or SDCs vs LDCs, and even FET vs Tube. As an audio guy and a teacher, I wholeheartedly appreciate this video as well as the other ones on guitar tone. Your dedication really shines through your content and I love it!
Thats gonna take some good speakers to hear the difference..
Haha.. test out the transient response of speakers while were at it 😅
I agree that is a big part of a microphone's character. You can't EQ a ribbon mic to sound exactly like a LDC.
100%.
what is "transient response" of a microphone and how does it get measured?
you keep finding the exact reasons that these kind of tests aren't more prevailing. I really wish there wasn't so much money to be made in deceptive marketing. When you end up launching your gear company- I desperately beg you to not sell it to Behringer no matter how much they offer you.
Also- that studio should have actually paid you to characterize all their mics for them! Another Thank you for this work, and sharing your results.
Amazing stuff, thanks for the work you're doing!
You and Glenn Fricker are doing so much Good Science for the music community. Unbelievable production quality, and the attention to detail is hard to beat.
I can't wait for the Mic Pre shoot out!
I can't wait for the inevitable culmination of testing microphones, speakers, cabinets, guitars amps, preamps, scale length, and strings into: "Tested: Where Does The Tone Come From in a Guitar Player's Fingers"
Insulting to Jim to compare him to Glenn 😂
I’ve left maybe ~5 comments in all my 15 years on TH-cam. Had to stop and comment here. This was one of the most well produced, scripted, edited, and shot videos I’ve ever seen on TH-cam. Props to you Jim and please keep making more!
This was epic, thanks for all your hard work buddy!
Another great video Jim. Brilliant AND entertaining!
Ok, so I don't really care for most country music. But I completely adore these videos. There's way to much mystique around things that don't matter or make a difference when creating sounds, whether recorded or performed in a live situation. I appreciate the effort you're putting into these experiments, man. Thank you so much for all your work.
This was super interesting, unique and helpful! Thanks for taking the time to do these experiments!
love all the experiments you do.
These videos should be used as training material for deep analysis, narrowing down on one single parameter, relentlessness and perseverance, optimization by controled variation, digging down into an unknown field, fearlessness, scientific mindset. Phantastic stuff.
hope you're joking. he didn't reveal anything beside a frequency comparison. he is a bloody beginner and does not know how to even approach microphones.
Thank you, sir! You have single handedly once again shown how much we hear with our eyes.
You have saved many people $$ they don’t need to spend.
Dude! This is an awesome video! Thank you so much for all your work! 😊
Amazing work and dedication!
Jim thanks for being the mythbuster of tone and timbre. You’ve helped me save so much money and time when wanting to get new equipment.
Same thing i have always told everyone...its all about EQ because its sound...lol
I argued with many people about the electric guitars construction as well.
Seems this man is proving me right, i love it.
Something to be said though...different mics do make acheiving a specific sound easier or harder. If you find a mic that works best for what you want to hear vocally, instrumentally etc... it makes the process of getting the music out of your head and into others ears, quicker.
Best part was him rolling down his window to open the door .lol😜 Classic artist👍
57 as reference point is a fantastic idea. Love the concept, methodology and production. Thank you for the tremendous amount of work you put in to present this info 🙏🏽
My main take away from all this is that we’d all benefit from a shift in priority away from the exclusivity and expense of gear and toward the skill in knowing when, where and how to use what gear.
As a long-time musician who’s recently moved into sound engineering, this insight goes a long way.
Awesome video! There is so much mystique and opinion around the gear we use and often value given to an object based on what we see vs what we hear that we stop trying to perfect our craft; believing only a $30,000 mic or $6,000 pedal or $175,000 amp will allow us to create good art. Thank you for reinforcing that I need to use what I have, and really consider before buying what do I actually need to get a sound I want.