Necro helped people actually get into pvm, which is a very good thing. Making gear drop in price as a result is arguably better too for everyone as it allows people to try out other styles without spending 600 hours on pvm trying to catch up on prices. 6b for a weapon was never a good thing
@@Vaikisspwnz Well that's the thing, before Necro even t90's could cost you over 1-2b which if you're using t80 gear is not really as easy to make. T80's is fine for GW2 but if you wanted to learn Kera for example, you'd struggle a good bit without t90, sure you could do normal mode but it's nowhere near as good. Also, necro pushed people to learn harder stuff like Zuk and get the capes, I had some friends who had never remotely thought they'd get a basic Zuk cape but I was able to teach them how to get not only a normal cape, but a hard mode cape as well because they had so much fun and felt more confident with Necro (Sure, it was OP so that helped, but still)
@Vaikisspwnz so your take is 100hrs ish to have just the weapons for a style is a good idea? And there are five pieces of armor, per style. You're a moron is the point of this story
Honestly Rasial is a big part of the problem, I did 10k kills and now have bis gear for all styles dyed how I want it and don't have as much motivation to pvm anymore because rares don't interest me lol, even when it comes to new content, why would I waste my effort doing sanctum for a 1b drop and wands that have no value when I could just basically afk rasial for 1 min kill times and watch youtube at the same time lol
To be clear, I do think that's a separate issue. Rasial being as effective of a money maker as it was + the fact that it is afkable now (combined with Sanctum being botted to all hell) is problem and is something that should probably be addressed (at least the Sanctum botting). 10k kills is far above the norm though and while I agree bossing gets pretty dull when you have everything, that's also a little bit your fault lmao, so I don't feel as bad for you.
I would definitely agree on this and add: For most players, necromancy made a lot of content available. I couldn't do Solak or Zammy before Necro (yes, skill issues) or 1000%+ enrage Arch-Glacor, and can do them now. I think this effects the economy as well, since the supply of many "high level items" and unique drops is probably higher then before necro. Thanks for the great content video and all those amazing guides 🙂
The main reason I dislike necro so much is how much it was favored by the devs, no other combat style has 120 other than necro which is very unfortunate. I would've been much happier if they released it at 110 and increased the other combat stats to 110 as well. Imagine the hype the player base would feel if every combat style had so many new things. I know that would be a lot of development time so I do understand a bit.
To be fair, the bigger issue is not necessarily that Necro went to 120 and the other styles didn't (especially since Necro doesn't get a damage buff after 99 anymore), it was that Necro is very clearly a beta test for a type of EOC 2.0. Necro is simple and functional and also used a significantly better damage/accuracy system than the other styles did. This made Necro feel way better to use because it worked and it made sense what you were doing. The other styles still have accessibility issues in the sense that it is very unclear which buttons you should be pressing and why unless you do a lot of research into high-level rotations. There definitely was favoritism toward Necro, but that makes sense; Necromancy was not just its own style in a vacuum, it was a reimaging of how combat could (and, I would argue SHOULD) be.
I feel the impact most at items that are not tied to a certain combat style. Getting T99 prayers, necklaces, rings, supplies or certain codecies feels much worse when you like bosses like Nex, Raksha and ED3. While it is true that you make less but also pay less for certain gear, for non combat style related items it feels much worse.
I completely agree, and I do believe I addressed this. If you are doing bosses that took bigger hits or weren't great money to begin with, your GP felt a lot worse (because it was). Similarly, if you are buying non-PVM items with your PVM drops, then your money is also worth less. The opposite is also true though, skilling gains and clues were significantly more profitable if you were buying PVM items and the exact same if you weren't.
Skilling gains have never been profitable i don't know what nonsense you're on about. And no, saying something makes 100m over 100m xp is not profitable when I can do any combat and get 10x that. You either are heavily misspeaking or fundamentally misunderstand the skilling combat loop in rs.
Bonds. Kind of off topic, but bonds are my ONLY gripe with the economy. I've got plenty of GP, but i was slowly dying (still am) when the bond prices started to go up. I got to the point where my character was able to make 50m a day just to see bond absolutely sky rocket
Bonds going up and up and up while a lot of the stuff we sold to get bonds does feel really bad, and people who buy bonds to fund their membership are another group of people who are negatively affected.
I farmed Rasial for 5k kills on release, I made about 50bil in total. Even today Rasial is amazing gp per hour, I think overall Necromancy has been a net positive because a ton of higher end gear became more affordable for the general playerbase.
That's something I didn't really touch on in the video and I wish I did; one of the huge benefits to Necromancy is that we now have so many more people participating in the high-end economy now than every before. If nothing else, this stabilizes a lot of prices because so many more people are buying and selling these items. That, in itself, is always a good thing for a game's economy. Combining that with a pretty substantial increase in the value of our GP, the vast majority of players were better off because of Necromancy, financially speaking.
In my past 20ish years of rs ive really only ever fought kril. Never really had an interest in pvm outside of that. With necro I was more comfortable to try out bossing, beat the fight caves for the first time, harakun? (the tentacle dood), and finally zuk for the necro cape, then proceeded to get about 500 kills on rasial with a pb of 1:19. Gwd2 and others felt way more fun with necro. I probably never wouldve gotten into bossing without necro. Looking forward to rs3 group ironman mode.
@raphtheboygenius yeah. I mean, im the person that got enjoyment out of high end pvm. I had just about finished getting most gear i had spend years pvming for. Maybe im the "2%" of the player base that's affected. Im just a little salty about it. Tbh i feel like the top pvmer is more than 2% of the player base. Isnt like 30% of active players maxed? Im not sure. But yeah there is no doubt that this makes it easier for new players to get gear. One thing i quite dislike is that there isnt really a Halo pvm item anymore and with the way the new wand and orb are dropped it seems that that might not happen again for a long time. Let me add the quote from The Incredibles: When everyone is Super, nobody is. I just feel like having maxed gear was the last kind of achievement this game had to offer. Everything has been devalued. Maxed isnt impressive, 120s are easier to get than 99's used to be. Maybe im just getting too old, but osrs still has the "wow" factor. When you see a guy with a tbow or full torva with a scythe it means something and i feel like we are losing that now.
As someone who also has BiS everything, it does suck that my bank went down, but at the same time, there wasn't really anything else for me to buy, and I definitely wasn't selling my gear for it. I understand that the number going down isn't fun, but you also have to consider that before the update, you had everything. After the update, you still had everything. If you feel like your achievements are worthless then that's fine, but the other side of the story is that the vast majority of the player base wasn't touching content above Vindicta.
@raphtheboygenius ive pretty much quit but ill probably come back for GIM if that ever comes out. I suppose Necro being easy to max makes it a bit more chill to grind out every other boss in the game. Thats the main thing im still looking forward to these days.
This was interesting. I noticed, but never really considered why good common loot became more important. It's because of the relative purchase power when big drops lost value. Edit: Max cash/ge rework is a major part of why bolg, fsoa and gear over 2.1b "crashed" in June 2023
It wouldn't surprise me if their true values were closer to the post-necro drop after the max cash rework. In another world where there is 6 months between max cash update and necro release, it is entirely possible (tbh, I think it's very likely) that BOLG would've settled around 3.5b anyway and took a minor dip from the release of necro (meaning that necro would've been an even bigger boon for the economy).
By the time I realized I should have switched to Excel, I was basically done lmao, I wrote out my thoughts in Word then just never really left Word when doing the math.
mementos were a terrible idea. they pitched necro as being something that would bring more value to bones, leading to more profit from combat, and more money out of the game as when you bury bones they disappear, a big gold sink, great for inflation. none of that shit happened because of mementos.
Vorkath was the most money I've ever made from a boss in terms of GP/hr. 278 HM, 203 spikes, 2 lord of bones, and a scale the day it got announced after 10 kc lol. That's obviously an outlier in terms of GP/hr, but when spikes were at their highest, the boss was literally 140m/hr (which went up to 170 when the scale came out).
@@raphtheboygenius my spike drops are below average 141 spikes only, 2 scales (sold for 500 and 600m each), 2 lord of bones (one for 300m). And i still havent got the pet...
It's such an idiotic talking point. In what world is 6B for BIS weapons normal or healthy? It's just entitled PVMers mad that they can't get stupid amounts of money from PVM. PVM still makes hundreds of mils per hour. This is just PVMer entitlement. You are not entitled to get bazillions for every BIS for ever. Items go up and down. That's the market. I bought my first Seismics for 3B. They were 1/10th of that long before Necro game. I don't complain about that, because that's how it's supposed to be.
@@KayaFiend14 I am not saying it's expensive. I am saying it's not a permanent or normal state of affairs, and expecting it to last forever is foolish. As I said before, I bought my first Seismic set when I did Vorago in 2013 for 3B. I made many more billions with it, so it was good for me and worthwhile. But eventually Seismics crashed, as they should due to a variety of factors. That's how markets work. The PVMers complaining that their precious BOLG isn't 6B in forever don't understand economics.
@@alygo6789 That's partially fair. The bolg did drop a solid 2b due to necro though. That's much different than the slower drop that gear typically goes through. Seismics are a good example of a more natural curve. 3B in 2013 - 1B in 2023. 2B drop over 10 years, not 2 months.
yes it did ruin everyting so the other styles were cheap as hell but now that they made all t100s and tech necros not bis anymore range is now with all the bis so most those items are high in price atm now fsoa range and melle t95 are all more pricey then t95 necro
Not Necromancies fault, old gear falls in price without a change of drop rates. 6 months of data should always lower the GP per boss rares.... Sure, the demand of these items dropped, which means they were not actually good compared to necro, which quickly changed to make range best.... Raph, you are comparing a first boss gp rates on a first stat to an old boss on an old style...... Everyone wants new, thats why all new gear is extraordinarilly high for a while, and when everyone wants that, other loot drops.... Why did this need to be a video? This video is for high tier PVMers.... Meanwhile, the other 21 skills are struggling to make enough gp to keep up with mid and low level PVMers.... Stop complaining about gear not making money, you finally get a glimpse of how the game is for 90% of the community.... Welcome to the game as it should have been!
The two most popular criticism of Necromancy is that it ruined the economy and that it makes PVMing meaningless. This video addresses the former. It's obvious to me why things are the way they are, but the reality is that there is a very popular perception that the economy is ruined because of Necromancy, so that's the point of this video.
Necro ruined the economy for the top 2% of players. It made it better for everyone else .
W.
.1% or less
Necro helped people actually get into pvm, which is a very good thing. Making gear drop in price as a result is arguably better too for everyone as it allows people to try out other styles without spending 600 hours on pvm trying to catch up on prices. 6b for a weapon was never a good thing
i think its good to have expensive items you don't need bolg for any content in the entire game everything is doable with SGB or t90's or t92's
@@Vaikisspwnz Well that's the thing, before Necro even t90's could cost you over 1-2b which if you're using t80 gear is not really as easy to make. T80's is fine for GW2 but if you wanted to learn Kera for example, you'd struggle a good bit without t90, sure you could do normal mode but it's nowhere near as good. Also, necro pushed people to learn harder stuff like Zuk and get the capes, I had some friends who had never remotely thought they'd get a basic Zuk cape but I was able to teach them how to get not only a normal cape, but a hard mode cape as well because they had so much fun and felt more confident with Necro (Sure, it was OP so that helped, but still)
@Vaikisspwnz so your take is 100hrs ish to have just the weapons for a style is a good idea? And there are five pieces of armor, per style. You're a moron is the point of this story
Honestly Rasial is a big part of the problem, I did 10k kills and now have bis gear for all styles dyed how I want it and don't have as much motivation to pvm anymore because rares don't interest me lol, even when it comes to new content, why would I waste my effort doing sanctum for a 1b drop and wands that have no value when I could just basically afk rasial for 1 min kill times and watch youtube at the same time lol
To be clear, I do think that's a separate issue. Rasial being as effective of a money maker as it was + the fact that it is afkable now (combined with Sanctum being botted to all hell) is problem and is something that should probably be addressed (at least the Sanctum botting). 10k kills is far above the norm though and while I agree bossing gets pretty dull when you have everything, that's also a little bit your fault lmao, so I don't feel as bad for you.
I would definitely agree on this and add: For most players, necromancy made a lot of content available. I couldn't do Solak or Zammy before Necro (yes, skill issues) or 1000%+ enrage Arch-Glacor, and can do them now. I think this effects the economy as well, since the supply of many "high level items" and unique drops is probably higher then before necro.
Thanks for the great content video and all those amazing guides 🙂
The main reason I dislike necro so much is how much it was favored by the devs, no other combat style has 120 other than necro which is very unfortunate. I would've been much happier if they released it at 110 and increased the other combat stats to 110 as well. Imagine the hype the player base would feel if every combat style had so many new things. I know that would be a lot of development time so I do understand a bit.
They already nerfed 120 necro to be on par with 99, defeating the purpose of having a 120 skill.
To be fair, the bigger issue is not necessarily that Necro went to 120 and the other styles didn't (especially since Necro doesn't get a damage buff after 99 anymore), it was that Necro is very clearly a beta test for a type of EOC 2.0. Necro is simple and functional and also used a significantly better damage/accuracy system than the other styles did. This made Necro feel way better to use because it worked and it made sense what you were doing. The other styles still have accessibility issues in the sense that it is very unclear which buttons you should be pressing and why unless you do a lot of research into high-level rotations. There definitely was favoritism toward Necro, but that makes sense; Necromancy was not just its own style in a vacuum, it was a reimaging of how combat could (and, I would argue SHOULD) be.
I feel the impact most at items that are not tied to a certain combat style. Getting T99 prayers, necklaces, rings, supplies or certain codecies feels much worse when you like bosses like Nex, Raksha and ED3. While it is true that you make less but also pay less for certain gear, for non combat style related items it feels much worse.
I completely agree, and I do believe I addressed this. If you are doing bosses that took bigger hits or weren't great money to begin with, your GP felt a lot worse (because it was). Similarly, if you are buying non-PVM items with your PVM drops, then your money is also worth less. The opposite is also true though, skilling gains and clues were significantly more profitable if you were buying PVM items and the exact same if you weren't.
Skilling gains have never been profitable i don't know what nonsense you're on about. And no, saying something makes 100m over 100m xp is not profitable when I can do any combat and get 10x that. You either are heavily misspeaking or fundamentally misunderstand the skilling combat loop in rs.
You should do a duo discussion with car guy rs on the state of combat balance and necromancy for the next video.
Omg I'd love to sit and listen to them talk about RS. They're both super informative and have serious dedication to the game
Bonds. Kind of off topic, but bonds are my ONLY gripe with the economy. I've got plenty of GP, but i was slowly dying (still am) when the bond prices started to go up. I got to the point where my character was able to make 50m a day just to see bond absolutely sky rocket
Bonds going up and up and up while a lot of the stuff we sold to get bonds does feel really bad, and people who buy bonds to fund their membership are another group of people who are negatively affected.
No bonds would increase these prices if the problem is prices dropping…
I farmed Rasial for 5k kills on release, I made about 50bil in total. Even today Rasial is amazing gp per hour, I think overall Necromancy has been a net positive because a ton of higher end gear became more affordable for the general playerbase.
That's something I didn't really touch on in the video and I wish I did; one of the huge benefits to Necromancy is that we now have so many more people participating in the high-end economy now than every before. If nothing else, this stabilizes a lot of prices because so many more people are buying and selling these items. That, in itself, is always a good thing for a game's economy. Combining that with a pretty substantial increase in the value of our GP, the vast majority of players were better off because of Necromancy, financially speaking.
In my past 20ish years of rs ive really only ever fought kril. Never really had an interest in pvm outside of that. With necro I was more comfortable to try out bossing, beat the fight caves for the first time, harakun? (the tentacle dood), and finally zuk for the necro cape, then proceeded to get about 500 kills on rasial with a pb of 1:19. Gwd2 and others felt way more fun with necro. I probably never wouldve gotten into bossing without necro. Looking forward to rs3 group ironman mode.
This is what i said on day 1 and everyone said i was an idiot. My bank has pretty much collapsed in value.
Did you watch the video lmao
@raphtheboygenius yeah. I mean, im the person that got enjoyment out of high end pvm. I had just about finished getting most gear i had spend years pvming for. Maybe im the "2%" of the player base that's affected. Im just a little salty about it. Tbh i feel like the top pvmer is more than 2% of the player base. Isnt like 30% of active players maxed? Im not sure. But yeah there is no doubt that this makes it easier for new players to get gear.
One thing i quite dislike is that there isnt really a Halo pvm item anymore and with the way the new wand and orb are dropped it seems that that might not happen again for a long time.
Let me add the quote from The Incredibles:
When everyone is Super, nobody is.
I just feel like having maxed gear was the last kind of achievement this game had to offer. Everything has been devalued. Maxed isnt impressive, 120s are easier to get than 99's used to be. Maybe im just getting too old, but osrs still has the "wow" factor. When you see a guy with a tbow or full torva with a scythe it means something and i feel like we are losing that now.
As someone who also has BiS everything, it does suck that my bank went down, but at the same time, there wasn't really anything else for me to buy, and I definitely wasn't selling my gear for it. I understand that the number going down isn't fun, but you also have to consider that before the update, you had everything. After the update, you still had everything. If you feel like your achievements are worthless then that's fine, but the other side of the story is that the vast majority of the player base wasn't touching content above Vindicta.
@raphtheboygenius ive pretty much quit but ill probably come back for GIM if that ever comes out. I suppose Necro being easy to max makes it a bit more chill to grind out every other boss in the game. Thats the main thing im still looking forward to these days.
This was interesting. I noticed, but never really considered why good common loot became more important. It's because of the relative purchase power when big drops lost value.
Edit: Max cash/ge rework is a major part of why bolg, fsoa and gear over 2.1b "crashed" in June 2023
It wouldn't surprise me if their true values were closer to the post-necro drop after the max cash rework. In another world where there is 6 months between max cash update and necro release, it is entirely possible (tbh, I think it's very likely) that BOLG would've settled around 3.5b anyway and took a minor dip from the release of necro (meaning that necro would've been an even bigger boon for the economy).
I like this research. Thank you Ralph
💰💰💰💰
necro only style that damage is 120? if so, what will happen when og style get 120.
Any particular reason why you put the data on Word/Docs instead of Excel/Sheets?
By the time I realized I should have switched to Excel, I was basically done lmao, I wrote out my thoughts in Word then just never really left Word when doing the math.
Really good take I appreciate it ❤️
mementos were a terrible idea. they pitched necro as being something that would bring more value to bones, leading to more profit from combat, and more money out of the game as when you bury bones they disappear, a big gold sink, great for inflation. none of that shit happened because of mementos.
286 kills on HM vorkath, made about 2.7b after the combat update, I was able to sell the spikes for around 9-11m each.
Vorkath was the most money I've ever made from a boss in terms of GP/hr. 278 HM, 203 spikes, 2 lord of bones, and a scale the day it got announced after 10 kc lol. That's obviously an outlier in terms of GP/hr, but when spikes were at their highest, the boss was literally 140m/hr (which went up to 170 when the scale came out).
@@raphtheboygenius my spike drops are below average 141 spikes only, 2 scales (sold for 500 and 600m each), 2 lord of bones (one for 300m). And i still havent got the pet...
I'm going to open 300 HM chests today, wonder how much I'll make...
It's such an idiotic talking point. In what world is 6B for BIS weapons normal or healthy?
It's just entitled PVMers mad that they can't get stupid amounts of money from PVM. PVM still makes hundreds of mils per hour. This is just PVMer entitlement. You are not entitled to get bazillions for every BIS for ever. Items go up and down. That's the market. I bought my first Seismics for 3B. They were 1/10th of that long before Necro game. I don't complain about that, because that's how it's supposed to be.
Tbf, if you can make 100s of millions per hour, 6b isn't that expensive
@@KayaFiend14 I am not saying it's expensive. I am saying it's not a permanent or normal state of affairs, and expecting it to last forever is foolish. As I said before, I bought my first Seismic set when I did Vorago in 2013 for 3B. I made many more billions with it, so it was good for me and worthwhile. But eventually Seismics crashed, as they should due to a variety of factors.
That's how markets work. The PVMers complaining that their precious BOLG isn't 6B in forever don't understand economics.
@@alygo6789 That's partially fair. The bolg did drop a solid 2b due to necro though. That's much different than the slower drop that gear typically goes through.
Seismics are a good example of a more natural curve. 3B in 2013 - 1B in 2023. 2B drop over 10 years, not 2 months.
@@KayaFiend14 A 6B resting level is not "natural" to begin with, so that analogy does not work.
@@alygo6789 The analogy was perfectly solid, not that it matters to the point. Being pedantic about the word "natural" doesn't change that.
Necromancy ruined the combat system
why do you say that?
I bought praisel wand for max cash last year lol
I did too! But I also have everything so, doesn't really matter to me since I have nothing to buy lol.
yes it did ruin everyting so the other styles were cheap as hell but now that they made all t100s and tech necros not bis anymore range is now with all the bis so most those items are high in price atm now fsoa range and melle t95 are all more pricey then t95 necro
Something tells me you didn't watch the video...
Redditors mad their gatkeeped pvm weapons and gear they arbitrarily inflated by 1000s of percentage value is going down by 40-50%
Not Necromancies fault, old gear falls in price without a change of drop rates. 6 months of data should always lower the GP per boss rares....
Sure, the demand of these items dropped, which means they were not actually good compared to necro, which quickly changed to make range best....
Raph, you are comparing a first boss gp rates on a first stat to an old boss on an old style...... Everyone wants new, thats why all new gear is extraordinarilly high for a while, and when everyone wants that, other loot drops....
Why did this need to be a video?
This video is for high tier PVMers.... Meanwhile, the other 21 skills are struggling to make enough gp to keep up with mid and low level PVMers....
Stop complaining about gear not making money, you finally get a glimpse of how the game is for 90% of the community.... Welcome to the game as it should have been!
The two most popular criticism of Necromancy is that it ruined the economy and that it makes PVMing meaningless. This video addresses the former. It's obvious to me why things are the way they are, but the reality is that there is a very popular perception that the economy is ruined because of Necromancy, so that's the point of this video.
simply buy low sell after they rework the other combat styles in 5 years
s t o n k s