"fun" fact: the ghosts are not talking to odysseus, they are saying their last thoughts before they died. So polites died still believing in open arms, his mom died waiting for a son who never got home and the soldiers were blaming odysseus as they drowned
Fun fact: Hermes is Odysseus' great grandfather, which makes this even funnier to me because could you imagine if your great grampa walked up to you and went "hey you wanna take some drugs?"
In the Homeric literature Odysseus was the shortest of the Achaean champions in the Trojan war. Even "little Ajax" should be taller than him. There were two heroes named Ajax, the one was a biiiig bastard and the other one was Little Ajax.
Circe is not a villain here! Circe was defending her nymphs from *aggressive male soldiers* . The musical isn't very explicit, but the whole undertone is that she struck premptivly to protect her family and herself from sexual violence. When she lost the upper hand, she tried to seduce him to put him a position where she could kill him but he specifically *rejected her advances* to be faithful to his wife, proving that even when *given* the opportunity, he didn't want that from her. Propositioning him in this way actually did reveal his true colors as the song implied: it revealed that he wasn't a threat, which allowed her to back off. What's more, this man had a hot chick basically dumped in his lap and he averted his eyes and repeated "think of chariot races" until his little caduceus settled down because he loved his wife. Circe didn't play him, Circe helped because she thought he was sweet. She basically sang "damn you're a nice guy. If everyone was that nice maybe i wouldn't have to turn people to pigs one day."
thank you so much for the explanation, i’ve always wanted to know why circe does what she does. I really need to look into her story more, she’s so fascinating
She is an antagonist and became a helper when he proved himself safe. Eurylochus has the opposite development but he also only becomes and antagonist, not a villain... One can argue odysseus ends up as the villain
Eurylochus: "I have something that I must confess." Odysseus: "I'm not far enough in my character arc to be able to respond to whatever it is, so keep it to yourself."
@@Meetmerex I was actually fully aware of the truth because I encountered a spoiler. I was genuinely shocked how many people hated him when the truth was revealed, he's my favorite character.
@disableddragonborn Yeah, considering that even if him opening the bag never happened and they got home fine, Poseidon would have just flooded and leveled all of Ithaca.
Circe: What's your type? Odysseus: My wife. Circe: But what does your ideal woman look like? Odysseus: Like my wife. One question: When Odysseus says "If I became the monster, to everyone but us?" ... to whom does "Us" refer to, exactly?
In the original story, Hermes gave Odysseus the moly root, then *immediately* went and warned Circe that he was coming. Dude just wanted to cause shenanigans.
22:53 Sooo Jorge admitted that he kinda goofed here and said 12 years when he meant to say 10. It's kinda canon now to the musical that Odysseus either exaggerated the length of time or is forgetful because of all the tragic events going on. Also fun fact, the Jorge and Talia (who plays Circe) are dating irl!
He wasn't away for 12 years. Jorge said that he made a mistake there and couldn't really correct it afterwards. One funny theory from fans was that Polites was the one that kept track of the calender to remember everyones birthday, but since he died nobody knows how long it's been now
11:10 "The fact that he's shown to be taller than him." Just in case you don’t already know, *everybody* in Epic is taller than Odysseus. And that is because everbody in the cast is taller than Jorge.
Fun Fact about There are Other Ways: It's heavily implied this is partly also Circe using her magic to seduce Ody as Holy Moly's power had already faded that point. After all Hermes did state that it's only for a moment, 'til you've beaten your opponent. So Circe's shock seeing Ody break free was a real surprise. In the actual Odyssey Hermes heavily suggested Ody to sleep with Circe and Ody followed that suggestion.
The same thing happens in the book, it's implied she also uses a bit of magic to charm Odysseus but either way Odysseus was supposed to accept her request to bed with her in order to save his men and know the way back home
@@Airier To paraphrase the Something Witty Team in their SAO Abridged series "Dammit Jorge! I am sick and tired of you kicking my heart in the dick!" More seriously, pretty much every reaction vid I see who goes through this song gets a little teary eyed. I knew the mythology and it gut punched me too. Its just a powerful and painful concept, and the music and singers portray it amazingly well.
@@guilhermefranco2930In the Wisdom Saga Live Reveal, he (and everyone else watching, myself included), teared up at this part. The music itself is so hauntingly tragic at this part, but knowing that easter-egg about Jorge's real mother ALWAYS makes me get emotional when I re-listen.
Another Fun fact: In 'Ruthlessness' Poseidon says "43 left under your command" but in 'Underworld' the spirits say "558 men who died under your command" this is because Elpenor (seen on roof at 27:15) snaps his neck falling off. Jorge was going to make a song from Elpenor's perspective but it sounded too funny for the man who is forgotten, so the 558 was made in reference.
Hermes actually was in this part of the odyssey but the moly he gave Odysseus granted him resistance to circes spells instead. Hermes also then told him he had to fall for her seductions and sleep with her lol. It’s really cool seeing someone know as much about Greek myth as you do though /gen
Fun fact: jorge said the reason Odysseus picked a cyclops was because it was the monster he was most familiar with and had knowledge of it's strengths and weaknesses
15:06 Slight correction: Hermes did have a staff with two snakes (the Caduceus) but this was a symbol of messengers, NOT medicine. The staff for medicine had only one snake and was associated with one of Apollo’s children.
For anyone interested, Hermes' Caduceus is on ambulances because they travel, as a safeguard for a mobile savior. The rod of Asclepius looks similar and is within many hospitals, but the average person is more likely to see an ambulance, hence the modern confusion.
That was Asclepius. He was Apollo’s son that created an elixir that could revive the dead. Because of this, Zeus and company killed Asclepius to keep him from upsetting the balance of life and death.
15:55 I honestly love that little parting farewell. To me it says "Oh my friend, I've just given you enough power so things aren't so one sided. Actually surviving is all on you."
Him calling Hermes scarier than Circe actually made me chuckle. Our chaotic disco king is officially scarier than a witch here (Also, If you’re willing to go back, I _highly_ recommend Ximena Natzel’s version of No Longer You, and Monster.)
I really love Jorge’s adaption of the odyssey, but one thing I wanted to point out- In the original odyssey, Circe and Odysseus’ relationship (if it can even be called that) is much darker. Due to the fact that she’s the daughter of Helios (the titan of the Sun) and an Oceanus nymph, Circe is a minor goddess and therefore inherently more powerful than Odysseus. After turning Odysseus’ men into pigs, Circe only agrees to spare them when Odysseus agrees to sleep with her. Although many people still argue about it to this day, it’s a fair assumption to say that Odysseus was coerced by Circe and subsequently is a victim of SA. Sure, he willingly slept with Circe, but it was for the sake of protecting his men. Im glad that Jorge didn’t choose to represent it as Odysseus being a cheater, because god knows how many times Odysseus has been victim blamed by people who claim he couldn’t have possibly been violated by Circe because he agreed to stay with her for a year.
Spoiler for those who have not seen the video: 50:18 So since you didn’t mention it, you may or may not have noticed that Penelope took of Odysseus headband off. The headband Odysseus got from Politese corpse to remember him and his lesson (greet the world with open arms) by. So it is quite clear it was that moment he decided to turn his back to Politese philosophy and embrace being the Monster.
16:50 depending on the source in the story it was his men that broke the rules of hospitality by being pigs and rude to the hostess and trying to force themselves on the maids so she just gave them a form to reflect on what they are. and when the men told Odysseus they left the first part out for him to save them
Yup. I've heard of that version. Not sure if it's the more accurate one, though (even if it makes more sense). There's so many versions when you start looking, it gets confusing fast. 😅
@@Airier to me this version makes more sense after watching you react to this it made me want to reread the the odyssey and from what i have read most of the time it was his men that did something wrong and him being the leader has to fix things it has been a enjoyable read lol
@siramaytheshowgundragon I mean Eury was outside so he never heard the conversations that happened just that they got turned into pigs, so that's all he mentioned. Circe did say she just revealed their "true forms" when Ody asked so I took that as them being crass and rude to her and the nymphs first, especially since she was neutral towards Odysseus first and only started threatening him when he confronted her.
@@JaserJas true but she already believes all men are pigs so they only need to breath to tell her that Jorge is a good writer if they did something he'd tell us
Oh no! I just noticed it, but it breaks the continuity of Gigi's animatics, as in some other songs she portrayed Elpenor as that big bearded one-eyed dude (as in, Elpenor's singing lines had him mouthing), but in this one he's running on the courtyard 😭
Airier be forgetting that what Eurylochus wanted to say is a CONFESSION which means he did something and wants to come clean. Yes, the seeds of doubt has been planted, but what Eurylochus wanted to say would not have actually helped the situation or solved any problems, and instead would probably amplify them
In my opinion, in the odyssey, it is implied that Odysseus doesn’t really want to do it with Circe but doing it because he has no choice but to do it to save his men. And a lot of us in the epic community think that Odysseus screams ‘NO’ not because he thinks Penelope leaves him but someone is gonna hurt Penelope.
What;a funny is that in almost every animatic, literally every other character is taller than Odysseus, especially Eurylochus, who in real his actor is 6’5
@@thelasthunt3r Read from another comment is that it's actually because he is described as shorter than Agammenon (Idk if that's how u spell it) in the Odyssey. Agammenon was already described shorter than all of the soldiers. So yes, if what I read is true, then Odysseus is canonly a short king in both the Odyssey and EPIC: The Musical :3
I would argue Odysseus didn't understand the prophet and decided to change in order to "fight" the prophecy(which we know how that works in mythology). Also in "No Longer You" the line "sacrifice of man" it's not referring to Polites dying, everything the Prophet says is referring to something later in the musical.
17:55 Well, Circe is never human in myth ,goddess, even if minor one. She's daughter of Helios and some Nymph, so no surprise she's too powerful relatively to Odysseys, and he needs Hermes help (that part is as in myth if i remember correctly, grass "moly" made Odysseus immune to Circe's poison)
Fun fact! Hermes is actually Odysseus' grandfather. And the whole fandom is determined to make him as close to an eldritch god as possible. I dont know a single animation that showes his eyes
I know. I don't understand it. His song feels like it's supposed to be fun. He is literally helping Odysseus free of charge just because he feels like it. Yet so many animatics make him out to be creepy and/or flirty which is not at all the vibe I get from the song. He's just carefree and helpful.
I always assumed covering Hermès’ eyes showcased his mischievous side; you don’t know what he’s really thinking or if his intentions are true. Helping Odysseus would even his chances of surviving a fight with Circe and be more entertaining to watch.
@@anonymoususer188 the flirty thing likely comes from the way the actor portrays the character in the promotional material for the saga, he's...weirdly flirty with Jay. As it's ancient greece the gods flirted with anyone and everyone lmao
18:37 Actually not weird, she had a wand to do magic with in the original. Wands-as-magic-tools is a trope that dates back to the witches of ancient Greece, and witch-type people from other ancient cultures in several places across the world. It's not universal, but humans independently invented it many times in many places.
Regarding the prophecy in No Longer You: Tiresias tells Odysseus 'I see a man who gets to make it home alive, but it's no longer you'. The audience, knowing the theme the Man vs Monster internal struggle, understands this to mean that Odysseus will go home, but so fundamentally changed that he'll be a different person. Odysseus, however, assumes that some men from his crew will make it home alive, just not him, because the mistakes and choices he's made have doomed him. That he was supposed to make it home, if he'd followed the Gods' guidance, but by choosing not to become the monster he's lost his chance, just like Zeus warned him. So he decides to embrace the Monster in order to go home. It's genius how that prophecy is worded, because regardless of Odysseus' choice, it comes true, just in different ways. If Odysseus decides to lead with open arms he dies, therefore not going home alive, and if he becomes the monster he goes home, but no longer as himself.
47:16 gigi, I THINK, has read or is knowledgeable about a little story named after circe by Madeline Miller, and in that book, circe took in a group of men and treated them with hospitality, but when they realize she was a woman alone on an island, they unfortunately SA’d her-so she turns them into pigs and hardens herself because of it, so gigi’s probably referencing that scene in Miller’s novel
womam For real though, Circe's actress is actually Jorge's girlfriend in real life 7;26 Fun fact: at this point in the song when Hermes comes in, you can actually hear a Harp mixed in with the instrumental, being his associated instrument in the musical 9:03 Can you tell who Gigi's favorite character is, lol (understandable) 10:02 'Himena', not 'Zimena' 19:14 More specifically, Oddyseus summons a Cyclops; this is canon to the musical. *_TRAUMA_* 23:07 If you listen closely here, you can actually hear Penelopes leitmotif come in through the instrumental here 23:59 The '12 years' thing was another misunderstanding Jorge made, and it got meme'd to hell whenever people noticed it, lol; it would have only been 10 years at this point, I believe 27:17 If you look closely at the background here, you can see dear sweet precious Elpenor on the roof of the palace 29:47 I don't think you commented on it, but even though there were still 43 men left after 'Ruthlessness' , it says 558 here because Elpenor died from falling off the roof of Circe's palace; this was explained in a song that was cut from the musical, and its never really explained otherwise, so I figured I'd just put this here 38:20 Oddyseus angry owl moment
Seeing Monster on the screen 1- made me very excited that he’s watching Gigi’s, and 2- made me excited that we have officially caught another one. There’s no going back now
I mean, myth Circe is out there bringing people back to life, creating gods and monsters, and purifying people of sin. She's a straight-up goddess, she just doesn't do much in the Odyssey.
I'm happy you get to see Gigi's for Circe's "Puppeteer" and "There are other ways", Gigi has the best Circe I have seen in my opinion. Not just being seducing, but energetic and bouncing out of excitement and skipping steps and being neither too innocent looking or too mature looking. Also notice that this Circe does the cat long eye blink to put the people she trust and/or cares for at ease, mostly toward her nymphs and to Odysseus at the very end as she raise his head so he can see her eyes doing so (27:18).
Huh. I thought that was her winking more than a long blink. More like she was letting the Nymphs and the audience know she was still plotting. Although I can see what you mean, too. 🤔
@@Airier I mean, if that was the case, then I don't think it would make sense for her to blink like that to Odysseus himself at the end as she released him and his men without doing anything more to them. Most of Gigi's comment section seems to be on board with the long blink being a way to comfort and put at ease her people and friends theory. When she was escorting Odysseus I feel like it was more to tell her Nymph that he was alright and wasn't going to cause problems and get out with his mens.
just wanna remind you that hermes was also a known trickster and theif, his trickery is litterally the reason for apollos whole music thing... well to be honest he was regarded as the guardian of travelers, liars and theifs.
Which does kind of describe his great grandson pretty well tbh. In the majority of people who don't know the details of the story, the only things they know about Odysseus is, the things he is most famous for, is "guy who came up with the best trick in warfare history and then had the world's longest/most complicated/worst trip home right afterwards"
Fun fact the background chant at the end of the prophet song actually has lyrics about upcoming challenges- but they are intentionally obscured so we don’t know what they are. Lots of theories, and we can tell you of the first confirmation after the next Saga, it’s a fun Easter egg in retrospect.
I think we do actually! Im pretty sure the lyrics are ‘siren song, scylla throat, mutiny, lightning bolt, fight poseidon, kill all the suitors for love’!
Odysseus wasn't named by Hermes, he was named by his Grandfather, who was the demigod son of Hermes. His Grandfather really REALLY didn't like being given the responsibility so he came up with a name that meant "Guy people don't like"
Now I don’t know if anyone else mentioned this but if you listen to ‘The Underworld’ ( 29:43 to be specific), the souls of his fallen men say “558 men who died under your command.” Then in Ruthlessness, you hear Poseidon say “43 left under your command.” When you do the math, you notice that it’s off. In the Odyssey, there is a forgotten character, named Elpenor, who got drunk and fell off the roof of Circe’s palace, breaking his neck and dying. That means there is now 42 left under Odysseus’s command when they went to the underworld. This is Jorge’s nod to the character. (Also, Elpenor was supposed to have part in ‘The Underworld’ but Jorge cut the part as he wanted the ‘forgotten’ character to be, well, ‘forgotten’)
With all due respect, do not take the visuals into account that much. Because not many of them that you're watching are cannon. So take it with many grains of salt.
Something else to remember is that higher beings can summon choirs. Whereas, if a human is singing, it has to be the other mortals around them. We don’t know where Odysseys is standing during Monster. We don’t know if he’s around his men. If he is, it’s their voices calling him to become a monster. If he’s not, it’s either the souls beckoning him to become the monster… or the monster itself solidifying its power in Odysseus.
49:54 i think you were originally right, he didn't actually understand the prophecy at all- he believed that 'no longer you' was referring to the fact that if he remained as he was (polites outlook) then another man got home and that the only way to get back to ithaca was if he made a change to avoid that future, adopting poseidons outlook as the opposite extreme- in trying to avoid 'another man' getting home he directly Became a different man fufilling the prophecy in an attempt to circumvent it as in many myths (oedipus etc)
Fun Fact: Most characters have a type of instrument that plays whenever they’re in or talking in a song. (Someone will explain this better) Examples: Odyssey has a guitar, Hermes has a type of harp and synth, Circe is a viola (I think)
it's confirmable that yes, Odysseus *did* end up sleeping with Circe, but it's heavily debated whether it was actually consenting... on his part. She's a God. Please tell me how telling a god 'no' tends to go in Greek Myth? (Not even getting into Greek views on Marriage, Fidelity, etc.) (Another reference is that Odysseus DID sleep with Calypso, but that was *Explicitly* her R*ping him. Going so far as to include her ranting at the Gods about the injustice of Male gods being enabled to victimize women, but she can't do the same to a man.)
I think a really cool fact is that Jorge’s mother is the singer for Odysseus’ mother. It’s such a bitter-sweet moment between the two. Her voice is so beautiful. You can see where he gets it from.
40:21 the ghosts are saying "siren song, scylla's throat, mutiny, lightning bolt, run from posiedon, kill all the suitors for love," then his mothers name
46:00 As one historian put it, Greek morality is sort of like being true neutral in D&D terms. The ideal warrior finds the middle ground between cowardice and butchery, as one example. The philosophers come up with two or three axis and create examples of bad morality that weighs on one extreme or the other, each time coming back to finding the balance between the two.
What alot of people dont realize in monster is that the "us" he is referring to is only 3 people: Him, Penelope and telamachus. The next saga showcases this very clearly
I disagree, I think the song makes it pretty clear that the we is referring to the crew. Most of the song wouldn’t make sense if it only referred to him, Penelope, and Telemachus
@@J939N That line still refers to the crew. It would make sense for him to being using we and us to refer to the crew for an entire song and then randomly switch who it’s referring to in one line for no apparent reason
There are so many good animatics for that saga too- I've seen so... so many different Suffering ones. I really hope he watches the Thunder Bringer animatic by Neal Illustrator.
The 12 years like others said, is just a typo realized after the song was released. It haunts Jorge lol. You may be thinking of Calypso when you are thinking of Circe in this video, which is a nymph he does get trapped by later in the story for 10 years, 8 in this story for the before reason lol.
fun fact! Hermes is actually Odysseus great-great-great grandpa! which explain his helpfulness with Circe. 31:27- where all the fandom cried 32:18- where the fandom cried harder (the "I took too long" line killed me)
20:50 Yes. He lived with Circe for 2 years in the original version (and some tales outside the Odyssey also gave Circe a son by Odysseus, Telegonus [who married Penelope after Odysseus had died by his hands due to a case of mistaken identity - Telemachus (Penelope's son with Odysseus, in turn married Circe]). That is the reason the little error about "12 long years" did sneak into the Epic version "There are other ways" - here he did not stay with Circe, but the 2 years still are implied to have passed. Jorge realized the error only once the track was already released and later decided to just roll with it (including later released songs have statements like "12 years, or so, [...]". Also, the supernatural female character with whom Odysseus spends a lot of time near the end of the travel portion is Calypso, not Circe.
I like how gigi draws circe like a lioness. Also I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who accidentally blended Nausicaa and Circe and Calypso after 10 years of not reading any telegony.
Pretty sure that in Homer's original telling of the Odyssey, Odysseus actually didn't sleep with Circe. It was someone he meets later on that he gets stuck with for years. In later versions, Hermes informs Odysseus that Circe won't give him the info he needs unless he sleeps with her, which he decides to do in order to guarantee moving forward. In those versions, he does stay for a few years and has three sons with Circe, of which only one was ever mentioned again as far as I know. And Telegonus (the famous one) was kinda messed up.
From what I recall the part Hermes heavily suggesting Odysseus sleeping with Circe, and Odysseus doing so, has been part of all translations of Odyssey that I have read. The children however are only discussed in later works: Hesiod's Theogony, and The Telegony (thought The Telegony has been lost to time and we only know of it thanks to a chrestomathy).
In the poem, after "defeating" circe, odysseus spends a year on her island as her lover before leaving, but in the musical odysseus and her just part as friends almost immediately. There are other colections of myths that even say the two had a son together.
Odysseus only stayed with circe for one year, not at the end of the book. She was indeed an ally. You’re thinking of calypso, who actually trapped him on her island for seven years, and was very much NOT an ally
Hermes isn't scary, he's fun! Chaotically fun. The reason his eyes are covered is because the singer, Troy Doherty, frequently wears sunglasses, and almost always does when portraying Hermes. (Hermes has made his way to Troy's Tik Tok, and Jorge and him did a series called "Hermes (and Jay)" that was really funny.)
Fun fact the one who voices odyssey's mom is Jorge's own mother. Also also the animatics were based on the information we had before. The images in no longer you dont actually line up. It was supposed to be spoilers but the community didnt know the spoilers.
PLEASE consider watching all Epic animatics by AnniFlamma - Ruthlesness and Circe songs all have AMAZING style and fit each other so well, it's stunning.
I've heard multiple different sides of the whole "shacking up with Circe" thing, and here they are: 1. nothing happened 2. they boinked 3. Circe did not take no for an answer. (yeah, I'm not explaining further than that) (all of these also supposedly apply to another situation later on?) the last 2 things made it into 12 years by the time of leaving that Island supposedly (that's what someone had said but idk) i have only read a simplified odyssey so I cant validate any of these so take as you will.
Slight correction, Staff of Asclepius is the one relating to medicine, on the other hand the Caduceus is the Staff Hermes wields and it's usually confused with Asclepius' because snakes. Small "um akshually" moment.
Gigi's visuals for Monster and The Horse And The Infant plus WolfyTheWitch's videos made me realize that Monster!Odysseus looks EXACTLY like Athena. Put him and Athena side by side and he would look like her shadow... a PERFECT warrior of the mind.
pretty sure the staff representing medicine is the staff of asclepius that only has one snake, not hermes' caduceus but people often mix them up. also really enjoyed the reaction :D
That's true, originally. The staff of Asclepius is still the most popular symbol of medicine, but some US Military medical groups started using the Caduceus as their symbol. It's not clear if it was a mistake or if it was meant as a symbol of diplomacy (its most widely accepted meaning), since they practiced medicine in many different countries.
one of my favourite easter eggs from "no longer you" is that in the background of the song when the ghost are singing if you listen to what they are saying, they are essentially telling you what comes next. spoiler they say: siren song, scylla's cost, mutiny, lightning bolt, something about posiedon and Kill all the suitors for love.
Personally, I kinda love that almost every animator is giving Hermes the 'bandit' look (as in, hiding the eyes as if he's wearing a mask). It's a nice nod to him also being a patron of thieves as well as a trickster.
24:29 Jorge has actually said that the “twelve long years” line was a mistake and it actually should have been 10 years, but he decided to either go with the canon explanations of 1. Odysseus is bad at math 2. He’s exaggerating to get his point across
Jorge actually admitted to making the mistake in the recording booth of saying 12 years when he'd meant to say 10. Recall The Horse and the Infant, he reminds his men in the intro that they've been at war for 10 years. Jorge kept his addition of two years because it makes sense with travel time and will be overshadowed by the rest of the journey home.
Also, Jorge has so far only released the first saga of act 2. You're about to be waiting months at a time for more content to react to. Now refer to the end of Hermes' song: "Good luck"
Jorge makes a lot of adjustments to Odysseus to modernize him... like making his actually struggle with doing monstrous things (unlike the original where Odysseus is pretty brutal from the jump) and making him NOT jump Circe at the first opportunity. Which shows the massive difference between modern 'heroic model' and the ancient Greek idea of what a morale and good hero would/should be.
Not so fun fact in the original odyssey odysseus does go along with circe and "does" the deed to get his men back and in later adaptations (since alot of old Greek plays eventually became a fanfiction with changes being made) he stays on circes island for a year and even has i believe a son with her So just had to clarify he did not stay long with circe in the original to my knowledge maybe your thinking of calypso
10:47 Hermes, weirdly enough, IS one of the more terrifying gods in the greek pantheon. A lot of people know him as just the silly messenger god who is one of the youngest out of all of the gods, but he's actually widely feared by both mortals AND the gods (and is also technically the eldest god but it's weird). Many forget that Hermes is a cthonic god: he's the god of boundaries, including life and death. Plus, he's also a psychopomp and is often the one guiding souls to Charon's ferry to the underworld. Whilst many mortals tended to favour specific gods over others (i.e Odysseus making his kingdom an athenian city despite Ithica being a port city that should technically be under Poseidon's domain) it's practically suicide to not worship Hermes. As the god of travellers and roads, it's basically guaranteed that greek heroes and merchants have to pray to him to ever complete their tasks or journeys. That's why Hermes, of all the gods, has the most worship statues, known as "Herms", so that way people can travel under Hermes' protection. It's also theorised, not proven, that Hermes actually derives from the mycenaean form of Pan, which is why he's also the god of thieves and trickery. Since he's also the great-grandfather of Odysseus, a lot of people believe that this is where Odysseus gets his cunning and manipulation from. Would also like to add that his Norse and Egypt equivalents are Odin and Anubis of all the gods, so yeah he's a little bit more than just the errand boy.
"fun" fact: the ghosts are not talking to odysseus, they are saying their last thoughts before they died. So polites died still believing in open arms, his mom died waiting for a son who never got home and the soldiers were blaming odysseus as they drowned
And the prophet is the exception due to his abilities.
Not so Fun fact kjkhkkk
yh Jorge said it bc iT wOUld MakE uS fEel bEtTer
did we not think about how Cersei just went "I'm kill you" then "wait you also hate Poseidon? Lol, screw that guy am I right? "
@@_theknighthawk_7018 I think she helped odysseus after seing he is not a "pig", he is faithfull to his wife and resisted her charm.
Fun fact: Hermes is Odysseus' great grandfather, which makes this even funnier to me because could you imagine if your great grampa walked up to you and went "hey you wanna take some drugs?"
Some magical weed 💀😭
Hermes also Dated Circe so he sent his grandson do go get seduced by his ex
Sounds like a move my great grandparents would do
FR
@@anthonymedina9425 BAHAHHA 😭💀
The fandom joke is that everyone is taller than Jorge/Odysseus - so he usually the shortest character in animatics
That’s always my favorite part of every animatic when the height difference is so obvious 😂
Another joke is: I AM THE MONSTER RAWR RAWR RAWR!
In the Homeric literature Odysseus was the shortest of the Achaean champions in the Trojan war.
Even "little Ajax" should be taller than him.
There were two heroes named Ajax, the one was a biiiig bastard and the other one was Little Ajax.
@@SparklingFox51944another one, TWELVE long years…😭
@@lesyeuxdelisa6556 posiren aswell i think
Circe is not a villain here!
Circe was defending her nymphs from *aggressive male soldiers* . The musical isn't very explicit, but the whole undertone is that she struck premptivly to protect her family and herself from sexual violence. When she lost the upper hand, she tried to seduce him to put him a position where she could kill him but he specifically *rejected her advances* to be faithful to his wife, proving that even when *given* the opportunity, he didn't want that from her.
Propositioning him in this way actually did reveal his true colors as the song implied: it revealed that he wasn't a threat, which allowed her to back off. What's more, this man had a hot chick basically dumped in his lap and he averted his eyes and repeated "think of chariot races" until his little caduceus settled down because he loved his wife.
Circe didn't play him, Circe helped because she thought he was sweet. She basically sang "damn you're a nice guy. If everyone was that nice maybe i wouldn't have to turn people to pigs one day."
thank you so much for the explanation, i’ve always wanted to know why circe does what she does. I really need to look into her story more, she’s so fascinating
She is an antagonist and became a helper when he proved himself safe. Eurylochus has the opposite development but he also only becomes and antagonist, not a villain... One can argue odysseus ends up as the villain
The actual myth is extremely vague on circe's intentions
I doubt the greeks would potray a woman like that
But in epic that is 110% the case
little caduceus
Eurylochus: "I have something that I must confess."
Odysseus: "I'm not far enough in my character arc to be able to respond to whatever it is, so keep it to yourself."
That’s a surprise tool that will hurt us later (not my original joke )
@@Meetmerex I was actually fully aware of the truth because I encountered a spoiler. I was genuinely shocked how many people hated him when the truth was revealed, he's my favorite character.
@disableddragonborn Yeah, considering that even if him opening the bag never happened and they got home fine, Poseidon would have just flooded and leveled all of Ithaca.
@@WittySomething we would have gotten get in the water earlier if that happened so im still blaming him
@@disableddragonborn He's mine too
" I'm the monster rawr rawr rawr, I'm the monster rawr rawr rawr"
My favorite part of the song
Oh he so needs to see it
I was so sad that it wasn't on the playlist
The best song Jorge has ever made, change my mind.
@@joesplace2960I can’t it’s true
Circe is half nymph
She's the daughter of Helios and Perse, who was one of the Oceanid nymphs
That nymph's name is very unfortunate if you're Finnish 😅
Occasionally, her mom is Hecate, but in this, it's probably Perse
Circe: What's your type?
Odysseus: My wife.
Circe: But what does your ideal woman look like?
Odysseus: Like my wife.
One question: When Odysseus says "If I became the monster, to everyone but us?" ... to whom does "Us" refer to, exactly?
Him, his wife and son
@@pixlv6384 yup
@@pixlv6384 plus crew until scylla
I love this comment so much lol
His men. But it gets warped to just be him and his family.
In the original story, Hermes gave Odysseus the moly root, then *immediately* went and warned Circe that he was coming. Dude just wanted to cause shenanigans.
22:53 Sooo Jorge admitted that he kinda goofed here and said 12 years when he meant to say 10. It's kinda canon now to the musical that Odysseus either exaggerated the length of time or is forgetful because of all the tragic events going on.
Also fun fact, the Jorge and Talia (who plays Circe) are dating irl!
12 years actually makes more sense than 10, so that's my headcanon
And the clip he made about it made me die laughing
There is also this headcanon that Odysseus forgot to count … 😂
Oh didn’t know that, good for them.
@Zylber7 Tbh if I remember he originally stayed a year with Circe but he was forced to
He wasn't away for 12 years. Jorge said that he made a mistake there and couldn't really correct it afterwards. One funny theory from fans was that Polites was the one that kept track of the calender to remember everyones birthday, but since he died nobody knows how long it's been now
Ah yes, that
“funny”
theory…
Very cute but breaks my heart 😭
@@icemagicianghso ‘funny’ 🥲
"FUNNY"
FREAKING…FUNNY😅😅😅
11:10 "The fact that he's shown to be taller than him."
Just in case you don’t already know, *everybody* in Epic is taller than Odysseus.
And that is because everbody in the cast is taller than Jorge.
Even polites?
@@GusTaJooJ_OFC yup I think
Its even better bc Odysseus was canonically a short king in the Odyssey 😭 its not too far off
Fun Fact about There are Other Ways: It's heavily implied this is partly also Circe using her magic to seduce Ody as Holy Moly's power had already faded that point. After all Hermes did state that it's only for a moment, 'til you've beaten your opponent. So Circe's shock seeing Ody break free was a real surprise. In the actual Odyssey Hermes heavily suggested Ody to sleep with Circe and Ody followed that suggestion.
The same thing happens in the book, it's implied she also uses a bit of magic to charm Odysseus but either way Odysseus was supposed to accept her request to bed with her in order to save his men and know the way back home
here is a fun fact about the song underworld Jorges own mother voiced Odysseus mom
Oh that just makes it hurt more. 😭
i know 😥
@@Airier To paraphrase the Something Witty Team in their SAO Abridged series "Dammit Jorge! I am sick and tired of you kicking my heart in the dick!"
More seriously, pretty much every reaction vid I see who goes through this song gets a little teary eyed. I knew the mythology and it gut punched me too. Its just a powerful and painful concept, and the music and singers portray it amazingly well.
@@Airier Apparently she cried whe. Singing because the song made her really think about the fact that her son would outlive her
@@guilhermefranco2930In the Wisdom Saga Live Reveal, he (and everyone else watching, myself included), teared up at this part. The music itself is so hauntingly tragic at this part, but knowing that easter-egg about Jorge's real mother ALWAYS makes me get emotional when I re-listen.
Another Fun fact:
In 'Ruthlessness' Poseidon says "43 left under your command" but in 'Underworld' the spirits say "558 men who died under your command" this is because Elpenor (seen on roof at 27:15) snaps his neck falling off.
Jorge was going to make a song from Elpenor's perspective but it sounded too funny for the man who is forgotten, so the 558 was made in reference.
🎶ELPEEEEENORRRRR🎶
🎵🎵 I DIED AND NOBODY NOTICEED 🎵🎵
😀😃😂😢😭
@@reginaldvaughn8568 I DIED, AND NOBODY CARED
Hermes actually was in this part of the odyssey but the moly he gave Odysseus granted him resistance to circes spells instead. Hermes also then told him he had to fall for her seductions and sleep with her lol. It’s really cool seeing someone know as much about Greek myth as you do though /gen
I was looking for this comment haha.
@@StepCrow I was also looking for this comment LOL
Yes, I was looking for this comment!
Fun fact: jorge said the reason Odysseus picked a cyclops was because it was the monster he was most familiar with and had knowledge of it's strengths and weaknesses
It just traumatised him and he has not met scylla yet
15:06 Slight correction: Hermes did have a staff with two snakes (the Caduceus) but this was a symbol of messengers, NOT medicine. The staff for medicine had only one snake and was associated with one of Apollo’s children.
For anyone interested, Hermes' Caduceus is on ambulances because they travel, as a safeguard for a mobile savior. The rod of Asclepius looks similar and is within many hospitals, but the average person is more likely to see an ambulance, hence the modern confusion.
Well hermes did steal from Apollo
@@Ansixilus I mean the ambulances are also a form of Travel and Hermes is the god of travellers
@@Ansixilus I kinda figured it's just cuz two snakes is symmetrical and waaay more pleasing to look at
That was Asclepius. He was Apollo’s son that created an elixir that could revive the dead. Because of this, Zeus and company killed Asclepius to keep him from upsetting the balance of life and death.
GOD I'm such a sucker for the way Penelope's motif plays immediately after Odysseus says "I can't!"
Me too!!
15:55 I honestly love that little parting farewell. To me it says "Oh my friend, I've just given you enough power so things aren't so one sided. Actually surviving is all on you."
If I recall, he also told Circe in the original. Just for funsies.
@@GioppdumisterGotta love some Hermes shenanigans😂
@@Gioppdumister I mean, that makes perfect sense. The fight would get boring if he took her by surprise.
Him calling Hermes scarier than Circe actually made me chuckle. Our chaotic disco king is officially scarier than a witch here
(Also, If you’re willing to go back, I _highly_ recommend Ximena Natzel’s version of No Longer You, and Monster.)
Agreed! Gwendy is great but Ximena's No Longer You doesn't get nearly enough attention.
I also highly recommend it, it is my favorite No Longer You animatic
I really love Jorge’s adaption of the odyssey, but one thing I wanted to point out-
In the original odyssey, Circe and Odysseus’ relationship (if it can even be called that) is much darker. Due to the fact that she’s the daughter of Helios (the titan of the Sun) and an Oceanus nymph, Circe is a minor goddess and therefore inherently more powerful than Odysseus. After turning Odysseus’ men into pigs, Circe only agrees to spare them when Odysseus agrees to sleep with her. Although many people still argue about it to this day, it’s a fair assumption to say that Odysseus was coerced by Circe and subsequently is a victim of SA. Sure, he willingly slept with Circe, but it was for the sake of protecting his men.
Im glad that Jorge didn’t choose to represent it as Odysseus being a cheater, because god knows how many times Odysseus has been victim blamed by people who claim he couldn’t have possibly been violated by Circe because he agreed to stay with her for a year.
its also very apparent in relation to calypso that he was, indeed, SAd at the very least once in the oddessy
Spoiler for those who have not seen the video:
50:18 So since you didn’t mention it, you may or may not have noticed that Penelope took of Odysseus headband off. The headband Odysseus got from Politese corpse to remember him and his lesson (greet the world with open arms) by. So it is quite clear it was that moment he decided to turn his back to Politese philosophy and embrace being the Monster.
Ooh, good catch.
I was wondering what that was, and that makes sense, thanks!
@@SauceyRedHN no problem
16:50 depending on the source in the story it was his men that broke the rules of hospitality by being pigs and rude to the hostess and trying to force themselves on the maids so she just gave them a form to reflect on what they are. and when the men told Odysseus they left the first part out for him to save them
Yup. I've heard of that version. Not sure if it's the more accurate one, though (even if it makes more sense). There's so many versions when you start looking, it gets confusing fast. 😅
@@Airier to me this version makes more sense after watching you react to this it made me want to reread the the odyssey and from what i have read most of the time it was his men that did something wrong and him being the leader has to fix things it has been a enjoyable read lol
I don't think is case for this because if it was they would have brought it up
@siramaytheshowgundragon I mean Eury was outside so he never heard the conversations that happened just that they got turned into pigs, so that's all he mentioned.
Circe did say she just revealed their "true forms" when Ody asked so I took that as them being crass and rude to her and the nymphs first, especially since she was neutral towards Odysseus first and only started threatening him when he confronted her.
@@JaserJas true but she already believes all men are pigs so they only need to breath to tell her that Jorge is a good writer if they did something he'd tell us
I like to call the "Wouldn't You Like" animatic: "Hermes manhandling his great-grandson and offering him drugs for 3 minutes" lmao
27:16 on my god, they showed the guy who got drunk, fell off of Circe's roof and snapped his neck 😂
OMG I never noticed that before 😂 Literally moments before disaster 😂
Put some respect on Elpenor’s name
@@frankheninja1 thank you, I didn't remember his name and didn't have the energy to look it up 😅
@milliegoodwin5389 thus what he is, forgettable xD
Oh no! I just noticed it, but it breaks the continuity of Gigi's animatics, as in some other songs she portrayed Elpenor as that big bearded one-eyed dude (as in, Elpenor's singing lines had him mouthing), but in this one he's running on the courtyard 😭
Airier be forgetting that what Eurylochus wanted to say is a CONFESSION which means he did something and wants to come clean. Yes, the seeds of doubt has been planted, but what Eurylochus wanted to say would not have actually helped the situation or solved any problems, and instead would probably amplify them
I like the fan short
"Light 5 torches"
*tells his confession*
"Make that 6 torches"
@@Razdasoldier I love that short
@@Razdasoldierlink?
@@lilydragon2129 it's by gwendy, just search it up
In Epic, Circe's main thesis is that all men are pigs. So Circe agreed to help when Odysseus proved not to be one
In my opinion, in the odyssey, it is implied that Odysseus doesn’t really want to do it with Circe but doing it because he has no choice but to do it to save his men.
And a lot of us in the epic community think that Odysseus screams ‘NO’ not because he thinks Penelope leaves him but someone is gonna hurt Penelope.
@raviary95HE WAS A VICTIM, AND HES KEEPS GETTING CALLED A CHEATER 😭
@raviary95 YESS, thank you!!!
He doesn't say no, he says who.
@raviary95 OMG YESS, THANK U
@raviary95there’s literally a passage in the original that compares him to an unwilling sl*ve when dealing with Calypso I think?
What;a funny is that in almost every animatic, literally every other character is taller than Odysseus, especially Eurylochus, who in real his actor is 6’5
I haven't actually read the odyssey, but someone told me Polyphemus actually calls odysseus short, so maybe its canon that he's a short king lmao
@@thelasthunt3r I think Polyphemus calls him short, because, y’know, he’s a giant cyclops, so any normal person would seem short.
@@thelasthunt3r Read from another comment is that it's actually because he is described as shorter than Agammenon (Idk if that's how u spell it) in the Odyssey. Agammenon was already described shorter than all of the soldiers. So yes, if what I read is true, then Odysseus is canonly a short king in both the Odyssey and EPIC: The Musical :3
I would argue Odysseus didn't understand the prophet and decided to change in order to "fight" the prophecy(which we know how that works in mythology). Also in "No Longer You" the line "sacrifice of man" it's not referring to Polites dying, everything the Prophet says is referring to something later in the musical.
Well, “Sacrifice of man” could mean Polities and the future simultaneously, since the Prophet sees past, present, and future...
its most likely scylla :D
Say it with me now…
He is the monster
Rawr rawr rawr
He is the monster
raw raw raw
He is the monster
He is the monster
He is the monster, Rawr rawr rawr.
He is the monster raw raw raw
(He is a different beast now)
He is the monster raw raw raw
He is the monster rawr rawr rawr
17:55 Well, Circe is never human in myth ,goddess, even if minor one. She's daughter of Helios and some Nymph, so no surprise she's too powerful relatively to Odysseys, and he needs Hermes help (that part is as in myth if i remember correctly, grass "moly" made Odysseus immune to Circe's poison)
Fun fact! Hermes is actually Odysseus' grandfather. And the whole fandom is determined to make him as close to an eldritch god as possible. I dont know a single animation that showes his eyes
I know. I don't understand it. His song feels like it's supposed to be fun. He is literally helping Odysseus free of charge just because he feels like it. Yet so many animatics make him out to be creepy and/or flirty which is not at all the vibe I get from the song. He's just carefree and helpful.
I'm pretty sure the covered eyes is just because hermeses va wears sunglasses in most clips of him singing as hermes
@@anonymoususer188 Truthfully, we still don't know that in this saga
I always assumed covering Hermès’ eyes showcased his mischievous side; you don’t know what he’s really thinking or if his intentions are true.
Helping Odysseus would even his chances of surviving a fight with Circe and be more entertaining to watch.
@@anonymoususer188 the flirty thing likely comes from the way the actor portrays the character in the promotional material for the saga, he's...weirdly flirty with Jay. As it's ancient greece the gods flirted with anyone and everyone lmao
18:37 Actually not weird, she had a wand to do magic with in the original. Wands-as-magic-tools is a trope that dates back to the witches of ancient Greece, and witch-type people from other ancient cultures in several places across the world. It's not universal, but humans independently invented it many times in many places.
Hermes wasn't saying "take my gift or I'll beat you" he was saying "you should take my gift or Circe will hurt you"
9:22 it’s supposed to say 10 years but Jorge accidentally said 12 years so now there is a head canon that polites kept track of time
Regarding the prophecy in No Longer You:
Tiresias tells Odysseus 'I see a man who gets to make it home alive, but it's no longer you'. The audience, knowing the theme the Man vs Monster internal struggle, understands this to mean that Odysseus will go home, but so fundamentally changed that he'll be a different person.
Odysseus, however, assumes that some men from his crew will make it home alive, just not him, because the mistakes and choices he's made have doomed him. That he was supposed to make it home, if he'd followed the Gods' guidance, but by choosing not to become the monster he's lost his chance, just like Zeus warned him.
So he decides to embrace the Monster in order to go home.
It's genius how that prophecy is worded, because regardless of Odysseus' choice, it comes true, just in different ways. If Odysseus decides to lead with open arms he dies, therefore not going home alive, and if he becomes the monster he goes home, but no longer as himself.
Something i feel people forget is the fact Hermes is a trickster god so him being a bit goofy and menceing is realistic.
47:16 gigi, I THINK, has read or is knowledgeable about a little story named after circe by Madeline Miller, and in that book, circe took in a group of men and treated them with hospitality, but when they realize she was a woman alone on an island, they unfortunately SA’d her-so she turns them into pigs and hardens herself because of it, so gigi’s probably referencing that scene in Miller’s novel
womam
For real though, Circe's actress is actually Jorge's girlfriend in real life
7;26 Fun fact: at this point in the song when Hermes comes in, you can actually hear a Harp mixed in with the instrumental, being his associated instrument in the musical
9:03 Can you tell who Gigi's favorite character is, lol (understandable)
10:02 'Himena', not 'Zimena'
19:14 More specifically, Oddyseus summons a Cyclops; this is canon to the musical. *_TRAUMA_*
23:07 If you listen closely here, you can actually hear Penelopes leitmotif come in through the instrumental here
23:59 The '12 years' thing was another misunderstanding Jorge made, and it got meme'd to hell whenever people noticed it, lol; it would have only been 10 years at this point, I believe
27:17 If you look closely at the background here, you can see dear sweet precious Elpenor on the roof of the palace
29:47 I don't think you commented on it, but even though there were still 43 men left after 'Ruthlessness' , it says 558 here because Elpenor died from falling off the roof of Circe's palace; this was explained in a song that was cut from the musical, and its never really explained otherwise, so I figured I'd just put this here
38:20 Oddyseus angry owl moment
I JUST NOTICED ELPENOR OH MY GOD
Seeing Monster on the screen 1- made me very excited that he’s watching Gigi’s, and 2- made me excited that we have officially caught another one. There’s no going back now
I mean, myth Circe is out there bringing people back to life, creating gods and monsters, and purifying people of sin. She's a straight-up goddess, she just doesn't do much in the Odyssey.
I'm happy you get to see Gigi's for Circe's "Puppeteer" and "There are other ways", Gigi has the best Circe I have seen in my opinion. Not just being seducing, but energetic and bouncing out of excitement and skipping steps and being neither too innocent looking or too mature looking. Also notice that this Circe does the cat long eye blink to put the people she trust and/or cares for at ease, mostly toward her nymphs and to Odysseus at the very end as she raise his head so he can see her eyes doing so (27:18).
Huh. I thought that was her winking more than a long blink. More like she was letting the Nymphs and the audience know she was still plotting. Although I can see what you mean, too. 🤔
@@Airier I mean, if that was the case, then I don't think it would make sense for her to blink like that to Odysseus himself at the end as she released him and his men without doing anything more to them. Most of Gigi's comment section seems to be on board with the long blink being a way to comfort and put at ease her people and friends theory.
When she was escorting Odysseus I feel like it was more to tell her Nymph that he was alright and wasn't going to cause problems and get out with his mens.
I will say, I think Aniflamma's version I personally prefer, especially because hand in hand with her done for.
just wanna remind you that hermes was also a known trickster and theif, his trickery is litterally the reason for apollos whole music thing... well to be honest he was regarded as the guardian of travelers, liars and theifs.
Which does kind of describe his great grandson pretty well tbh.
In the majority of people who don't know the details of the story, the only things they know about Odysseus is, the things he is most famous for, is "guy who came up with the best trick in warfare history and then had the world's longest/most complicated/worst trip home right afterwards"
Fun fact the background chant at the end of the prophet song actually has lyrics about upcoming challenges- but they are intentionally obscured so we don’t know what they are. Lots of theories, and we can tell you of the first confirmation after the next Saga, it’s a fun Easter egg in retrospect.
I think we do actually! Im pretty sure the lyrics are ‘siren song, scylla throat, mutiny, lightning bolt, fight poseidon, kill all the suitors for love’!
What makes the scene with Ody's mom even more emotional is that Jorge's actual mother did the singing for Ody's mom.
Btw remember Odysseus is Hermes’ great grandchild that he got to name himself. He helps him stop the enchantment to turn Odysseus to a pig
And also that Odysseus' name basically means "he who pisses everyone off". Really clocked that one early, eh?
@Ansixilus
Really? I thought his name means "long journey/voyage"
Odysseus wasn't named by Hermes, he was named by his Grandfather, who was the demigod son of Hermes. His Grandfather really REALLY didn't like being given the responsibility so he came up with a name that meant "Guy people don't like"
@@terra4822 Other way around. The word Odyssey was first used as the name for the story of Odysseus and the word was derived from his name.
@@Evnyofdeath … So… if these sagas were set in modern context, he could’ve been named… Sillius Soddus? >)X^D
Now I don’t know if anyone else mentioned this but if you listen to ‘The Underworld’ ( 29:43 to be specific), the souls of his fallen men say “558 men who died under your command.” Then in Ruthlessness, you hear Poseidon say “43 left under your command.” When you do the math, you notice that it’s off. In the Odyssey, there is a forgotten character, named Elpenor, who got drunk and fell off the roof of Circe’s palace, breaking his neck and dying. That means there is now 42 left under Odysseus’s command when they went to the underworld. This is Jorge’s nod to the character. (Also, Elpenor was supposed to have part in ‘The Underworld’ but Jorge cut the part as he wanted the ‘forgotten’ character to be, well, ‘forgotten’)
With all due respect, do not take the visuals into account that much. Because not many of them that you're watching are cannon. So take it with many grains of salt.
Answering about why Hermes doesn't show his eyes is bcs (I believe) Troy (cast as Hermes) always wears sunglasses and they applied it on the animatics
"oh my god hermes flirting with ody is so funny"
also hermes casually being odysseus' grandfather: 😉🌹
It's greek🤷 what's lineage 🤣
Zeus is in the same family tree, like 4 times. Greek stuff
Wouldn’t you like summarized:
Hermes flirts with and drugs his great grandson, telling him to go fight a witch.
Something else to remember is that higher beings can summon choirs. Whereas, if a human is singing, it has to be the other mortals around them.
We don’t know where Odysseys is standing during Monster. We don’t know if he’s around his men. If he is, it’s their voices calling him to become a monster. If he’s not, it’s either the souls beckoning him to become the monster… or the monster itself solidifying its power in Odysseus.
49:54 i think you were originally right, he didn't actually understand the prophecy at all- he believed that 'no longer you' was referring to the fact that if he remained as he was (polites outlook) then another man got home and that the only way to get back to ithaca was if he made a change to avoid that future, adopting poseidons outlook as the opposite extreme- in trying to avoid 'another man' getting home he directly Became a different man fufilling the prophecy in an attempt to circumvent it as in many myths (oedipus etc)
Fun Fact: Most characters have a type of instrument that plays whenever they’re in or talking in a song. (Someone will explain this better)
Examples: Odyssey has a guitar, Hermes has a type of harp and synth, Circe is a viola (I think)
Isn’t viola Penelope? I’m not sure
@@Th3.qv33ns.G4mbit Yep. Penelope is the voila. I’m sure Jorge has been a video explaining which instrument(s) are for each character.
@@Th3.qv33ns.G4mbit I always get Penelope and Circe’s instrument mixed up
29:05 there are five rivers in the underworld so they are most likely entering through the river Acheron, the river of woe
Did you catch that when (in Monster) he lays his head on Penelope’s lap, she rips Polites’ headband off of him? Gigi is so good
it's confirmable that yes, Odysseus *did* end up sleeping with Circe, but it's heavily debated whether it was actually consenting... on his part.
She's a God. Please tell me how telling a god 'no' tends to go in Greek Myth? (Not even getting into Greek views on Marriage, Fidelity, etc.) (Another reference is that Odysseus DID sleep with Calypso, but that was *Explicitly* her R*ping him. Going so far as to include her ranting at the Gods about the injustice of Male gods being enabled to victimize women, but she can't do the same to a man.)
I think a really cool fact is that Jorge’s mother is the singer for Odysseus’ mother. It’s such a bitter-sweet moment between the two. Her voice is so beautiful. You can see where he gets it from.
40:21 the ghosts are saying "siren song, scylla's throat, mutiny, lightning bolt, run from posiedon, kill all the suitors for love," then his mothers name
46:00 As one historian put it, Greek morality is sort of like being true neutral in D&D terms. The ideal warrior finds the middle ground between cowardice and butchery, as one example. The philosophers come up with two or three axis and create examples of bad morality that weighs on one extreme or the other, each time coming back to finding the balance between the two.
I love that every Epic animator either hides the eyes or gives Hermes sunglasses. I don’t know why but it fits.
Did anyone else notice that Penelope removed the polites bandana from his head, a sign that he was no longer going to follow a path of peace?
It felt like Penelope saying, to get back to me, you can't keep trying this way anymore.
What alot of people dont realize in monster is that the "us" he is referring to is only 3 people: Him, Penelope and telamachus. The next saga showcases this very clearly
He’s definitely not ready for the next saga…
I disagree, I think the song makes it pretty clear that the we is referring to the crew. Most of the song wouldn’t make sense if it only referred to him, Penelope, and Telemachus
@@pikeeper1 MY BAD I MEANT A DIFFERENT LINE
"if I become the monster, to everyone but US-"
I meant the "Us" not the "we"
COVID brain got me using synonyms
@@J939N That line still refers to the crew. It would make sense for him to being using we and us to refer to the crew for an entire song and then randomly switch who it’s referring to in one line for no apparent reason
Thunder Saga awaits... id give this one some time to stew first before the most heartbreaking saga yet.
There are so many good animatics for that saga too- I've seen so... so many different Suffering ones. I really hope he watches the Thunder Bringer animatic by Neal Illustrator.
no no no, let him dive right on in. its more fun that way >:]
The 12 years like others said, is just a typo realized after the song was released. It haunts Jorge lol.
You may be thinking of Calypso when you are thinking of Circe in this video, which is a nymph he does get trapped by later in the story for 10 years, 8 in this story for the before reason lol.
fun fact! Hermes is actually Odysseus great-great-great grandpa! which explain his helpfulness with Circe.
31:27- where all the fandom cried
32:18- where the fandom cried harder (the "I took too long" line killed me)
20:50 Yes. He lived with Circe for 2 years in the original version (and some tales outside the Odyssey also gave Circe a son by Odysseus, Telegonus [who married Penelope after Odysseus had died by his hands due to a case of mistaken identity - Telemachus (Penelope's son with Odysseus, in turn married Circe]). That is the reason the little error about "12 long years" did sneak into the Epic version "There are other ways" - here he did not stay with Circe, but the 2 years still are implied to have passed. Jorge realized the error only once the track was already released and later decided to just roll with it (including later released songs have statements like "12 years, or so, [...]".
Also, the supernatural female character with whom Odysseus spends a lot of time near the end of the travel portion is Calypso, not Circe.
I like how gigi draws circe like a lioness.
Also I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who accidentally blended Nausicaa and Circe and Calypso after 10 years of not reading any telegony.
Pretty sure that in Homer's original telling of the Odyssey, Odysseus actually didn't sleep with Circe. It was someone he meets later on that he gets stuck with for years.
In later versions, Hermes informs Odysseus that Circe won't give him the info he needs unless he sleeps with her, which he decides to do in order to guarantee moving forward. In those versions, he does stay for a few years and has three sons with Circe, of which only one was ever mentioned again as far as I know. And Telegonus (the famous one) was kinda messed up.
From what I recall the part Hermes heavily suggesting Odysseus sleeping with Circe, and Odysseus doing so, has been part of all translations of Odyssey that I have read. The children however are only discussed in later works: Hesiod's Theogony, and The Telegony (thought The Telegony has been lost to time and we only know of it thanks to a chrestomathy).
@@Shadeius You may be right on that. I'm going off of memory for that first version and I can't seem to find an example of it anywhere.
@@dragonstouch1042 What turn are you talking about?
@@Goomsies wrong comment, sorry
So odyssey cheated on this wife then
The one singing those "whoas" and getting flung around by Hermes is actually Odysseus. Like he just took acid and is feeling invincible 😂
13:27 Circe was the daughter of Helios. Even Zeus was known to be weary of her in some stories. A powerful witch.
The Moly part was also in the stories, also given by hermes
In the poem, after "defeating" circe, odysseus spends a year on her island as her lover before leaving, but in the musical odysseus and her just part as friends almost immediately. There are other colections of myths that even say the two had a son together.
Odysseus only stayed with circe for one year, not at the end of the book. She was indeed an ally. You’re thinking of calypso, who actually trapped him on her island for seven years, and was very much NOT an ally
Hermes isn't scary, he's fun! Chaotically fun. The reason his eyes are covered is because the singer, Troy Doherty, frequently wears sunglasses, and almost always does when portraying Hermes. (Hermes has made his way to Troy's Tik Tok, and Jorge and him did a series called "Hermes (and Jay)" that was really funny.)
Fun fact the one who voices odyssey's mom is Jorge's own mother.
Also also the animatics were based on the information we had before. The images in no longer you dont actually line up. It was supposed to be spoilers but the community didnt know the spoilers.
PLEASE consider watching all Epic animatics by AnniFlamma - Ruthlesness and Circe songs all have AMAZING style and fit each other so well, it's stunning.
I've heard multiple different sides of the whole "shacking up with Circe" thing, and here they are:
1. nothing happened
2. they boinked
3. Circe did not take no for an answer. (yeah, I'm not explaining further than that)
(all of these also supposedly apply to another situation later on?)
the last 2 things made it into 12 years by the time of leaving that Island supposedly (that's what someone had said but idk)
i have only read a simplified odyssey so I cant validate any of these so take as you will.
Fun fact: polites was in charge of keeping dates and make sure everyones birthday being celebrated so now they dont know how much years its been😢
15:03 Afaik the relation between a snake and medicine has more to do with the shedding of scales, yknow, kinda symbolizing healing and regeneration.
Slight correction, Staff of Asclepius is the one relating to medicine, on the other hand the Caduceus is the Staff Hermes wields and it's usually confused with Asclepius' because snakes.
Small "um akshually" moment.
I love the concept of "No longer you"just because Athena disguises him as an old man to return home, so Tiresias was right, it was no longer him.
“This is going to end badly” wait until the thunder saga…
Gigi's visuals for Monster and The Horse And The Infant plus WolfyTheWitch's videos made me realize that Monster!Odysseus looks EXACTLY like Athena. Put him and Athena side by side and he would look like her shadow... a PERFECT warrior of the mind.
"Don't forget how dangerous the gods are!" Eurylochus warned him.
All the spirits in the underworld voice their last thoughts before they died.
DAMN THEY MADE HERMES SO FRUITY I LOVE IT
Fun fact Odysseus’s mom was actually a cameo from Jorge’s mom.
10:50 incorrect question not how did they make Hermes’ more terrifying then Circe instead how did they make Hermes gayer than Circe
Underrated comment
pretty sure the staff representing medicine is the staff of asclepius that only has one snake, not hermes' caduceus but people often mix them up. also really enjoyed the reaction :D
That's true, originally. The staff of Asclepius is still the most popular symbol of medicine, but some US Military medical groups started using the Caduceus as their symbol. It's not clear if it was a mistake or if it was meant as a symbol of diplomacy (its most widely accepted meaning), since they practiced medicine in many different countries.
one of my favourite easter eggs from "no longer you" is that in the background of the song when the ghost are singing if you listen to what they are saying, they are essentially telling you what comes next. spoiler
they say: siren song, scylla's cost, mutiny, lightning bolt, something about posiedon and Kill all the suitors for love.
Personally, I kinda love that almost every animator is giving Hermes the 'bandit' look (as in, hiding the eyes as if he's wearing a mask). It's a nice nod to him also being a patron of thieves as well as a trickster.
24:29
Jorge has actually said that the “twelve long years” line was a mistake and it actually should have been 10 years, but he decided to either go with the canon explanations of
1. Odysseus is bad at math
2. He’s exaggerating to get his point across
Jorge actually admitted to making the mistake in the recording booth of saying 12 years when he'd meant to say 10. Recall The Horse and the Infant, he reminds his men in the intro that they've been at war for 10 years. Jorge kept his addition of two years because it makes sense with travel time and will be overshadowed by the rest of the journey home.
Also, Jorge has so far only released the first saga of act 2. You're about to be waiting months at a time for more content to react to. Now refer to the end of Hermes' song: "Good luck"
52:08
I think if it does happen, the fandom will revolt and hunt down the creator ToT
Let the Ody have some peace, dammit!
Other than the hunting down part, 8 hope he does get some peace by the end.
Jorge makes a lot of adjustments to Odysseus to modernize him... like making his actually struggle with doing monstrous things (unlike the original where Odysseus is pretty brutal from the jump) and making him NOT jump Circe at the first opportunity. Which shows the massive difference between modern 'heroic model' and the ancient Greek idea of what a morale and good hero would/should be.
Not so fun fact in the original odyssey odysseus does go along with circe and "does" the deed to get his men back and in later adaptations (since alot of old Greek plays eventually became a fanfiction with changes being made) he stays on circes island for a year and even has i believe a son with her
So just had to clarify he did not stay long with circe in the original to my knowledge maybe your thinking of calypso
10:47 Hermes, weirdly enough, IS one of the more terrifying gods in the greek pantheon. A lot of people know him as just the silly messenger god who is one of the youngest out of all of the gods, but he's actually widely feared by both mortals AND the gods (and is also technically the eldest god but it's weird).
Many forget that Hermes is a cthonic god: he's the god of boundaries, including life and death. Plus, he's also a psychopomp and is often the one guiding souls to Charon's ferry to the underworld.
Whilst many mortals tended to favour specific gods over others (i.e Odysseus making his kingdom an athenian city despite Ithica being a port city that should technically be under Poseidon's domain) it's practically suicide to not worship Hermes. As the god of travellers and roads, it's basically guaranteed that greek heroes and merchants have to pray to him to ever complete their tasks or journeys. That's why Hermes, of all the gods, has the most worship statues, known as "Herms", so that way people can travel under Hermes' protection.
It's also theorised, not proven, that Hermes actually derives from the mycenaean form of Pan, which is why he's also the god of thieves and trickery. Since he's also the great-grandfather of Odysseus, a lot of people believe that this is where Odysseus gets his cunning and manipulation from.
Would also like to add that his Norse and Egypt equivalents are Odin and Anubis of all the gods, so yeah he's a little bit more than just the errand boy.