I love this event, love the ideas, love the art and I love Madelyne, I feel like this is one of the most underrated X-Men stuff out there, I feel like people hear about how Madelyne is a clone of Jean and check out, but the story taken as its own is fantastic and deserving of praise.
Could you do a video about what ACTUALLY happened in X-Factor #1? That Scott did not dump Madelyne the moment Jean returned. In fact, you'll find that Maddie told him that if he left, to not bother coming back? And for the first 12 issues, he is shown as trying to call her and that the letters and support payment cheques he sent were returned unopened? And that he had been avoiding Jean until she figured out he was married in X-Factor #6? And that he & Jean didn't become lovers until after the Fall of the Mutants when they thought Maddie had sacrificed herself with the X-Men and was dead?
Because Inferno follows and pays off so many previously X-stories, it makes the story nearly unadaptable to film. But it could actually be distilled to some interesting and original themes, as there are parallel connections between Ilyana and Madelyne Pryor and the trauma they both endured. Certainly what makes Inferno unique among comic book stories is its potential to explore these themes.
One reason why I like Inferno crossovers is that the dark enchantment that covers that Earth affects everyone. Especially the heroes. Some stay genuine to their cause and fight a little harder. Other heroes slowly change, physically and mentally. Sometimes their urge outways to what their purpose is, and they slowly stray off and become carnal
I like your theory around Sinister's meddling leading to Wanda and Pietro not being mutants, but I still feel that another explanation Marvel could use to "unspite" themselves with that stupid retcon could be that Wanda's trauma ran as deep as her powers are omega level, so much so that it lead to her retconning her own self (and her brother's) so that she could be removed from being associated with Magneto
Exactly! She hates the mutant side of herself so much that she unknowingly warped reality to make them no longer related. I really hope they do this. I want to see more interactions of them as his children with Lorna.
@@jaimec1596 I really feel like it’s a logical progression in her no more mutants meltdown. She just needed as much distance as possible from the trauma of being Magneto’s daughter that she would essentially break the fourth wall to rewrite her entire existence, while simultaneously managing the guilt of what she did to her own people at the end of House of M.
Seriously? How old are you if you don’t mind me asking. I’m in my 40s and picked up X-men in the mid 90s and always thought these 80s crossover were a bit over the top
PS I hate the Quicksilver has been retconned as not immune and Scarlet witch also as for Pietro he was one of the proudest mutants ever and to find out that he really wasn't one was a terrible idiotic retcon
The last image in the video of both primary X teams is good, but the Splash page is absolutely Awesome showing X-Factor vs the X-Men. Even Jean has a sarcastic line talking about the noobs. ;)
Inferno! This was the saga that sparked my love for comics & my 1st series. I was 15. This series is THE reason i still read comic & why the X-Men are my top superhero team, 2nd being the Avengers, Sinister is a certified badass in this, not the goofy clown he's portrayed to be in recent years
This is where I jumped back into the X-Men and x factor universe when I was a kid. I feel like they're wasting Madeline right now. But yes this is one of the greatest stories in the X-Men universe
Sorry, please just let that dead clone lie dead. Her story was epic, & tragic. She left with a bang during Inferno. She should never have been brought back for more stories that never went anywhere. Finally killing her off & not resurrecting her (in Hellions) was a good, respectable send-off.
I’ve just gone back and gotten all the crossover issues I missed or no longer have. Inferno was my introduction to marvel comics and it was such a good intro back in the day
When reading X-Men #4 (1964) Magneto quotes "...How the villagers called you a WITCH because of your MUTANT powers?", When reading this--I believe that Scarlet Witch is indeed a MUTANT.
Kind of prefer it, loved his art in the brood & fall of the mutants story lines. Storm leading the team, Wolverine second in command, young Rogue. etc.... Good Times
I loved this series! I made sure to buy all crossover issues. Fun fact, SpiderMan became Captain Universe during this series with Erik Larson's debut taking over after the Todd Father! ;)
Just the fact that Chris Claremont managed to fix Jim Shooters stupid move to separate Jean and the Phoenix entirety and almost devalued the Dark Phoenix saga, says a lot about his ability as a writer. And also people don't realise that it also gives validity to Hickman's resurrection protocols. If phoenix Jean wasn't the same as the "regular" Jean(and Madelyn) then the current X-Men are just clones of the people that died in HoX #4. The ressurected Jean of X-factor was the same but without the Phoenix "back ups". Which she regained when she merged with Madelyn.
if i remember correctly, Nathan was supposed to be Sinisters real name as a child mutant (who cant grow up) who projected the image of Sinister as what a child believes a supervillain is supposed to look like. So Nathan was named after Sinister, Corsair, and Professor X before editorial made Sinisters origin change to fit the Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix mini,
Yep! It was going on in the Classic X-Men issues as the bonus story. Claremont meant for both Sinister and Gambit to be the mental projections of the child mutant who couldn't age (and was also a douche towards Scott during his orphanage days). That's why Sinister is so monster/ghoul like and Gambit is so super cool...it's what a child would come up with. ✌❤😎
@@Jumpoable Right!! Lots of crazy Claremont unfinished story arcs. Wolverine was also going to be the Hand's true sleeper agent (with Psylocke as the feint) and Colossus was going to rip Wolverine's claws out of him in a huge fight in issue#280. I think Deathstrike was going to rip Wolvie's heart out before though, leading to the adamantium being ejected from his body. At one point Wolverine was going to basically have adamantium skin (Solem anyone?) and look like Silver Surfer but with claws. Then he leads The Hand, Jean Grey joins him to bring him back, Colossus rips his claws out, and he returns to the X-Men with his hair in adamantium highlights!! Would have been fun to read if not for effing Bob Harras...✌❤😎
@@DragonReborn3769 Claremont wanted to bring some of those stories back in the 2000s, but alas, the zeitgeist had passed & the magic was gone. :( I still love his X-Men run, & his work on NM & especially Excalibur with Alan Davis (the art was phenomenal), but his writing just seems rather dated now (too wordy, but not in a good way)... But hey we had Morrison, & now Hickman! Totally new directions but YAY really feels as epic & grand as those classic Claremont storylines.
I always got alot of Ghostbusters vibes from this event: The New York setting, demon take over, dark humor, but of course, with X-Men you have the long form soap tropes playing out that the IP was so good at.
Good timing. I was looking up recently if a collected edition exists and saw they are releasing the hardcover omnibus at the end of March. Seems that Inferno has a good chance to be next year's X book crossover. Great video, as always!
@@210SAi I am 100% certain she will be back; Madelyn is too important to just have a brief appearance in the first Hellions arc. She may not be resurrected by Krakoan protocols, but she'll come back and be pissed that she was deemed not good enough to be revived. She clearly wants to be seen as her own person, but the Quiet Council doesn't seem to see it that way. And when Maddy does come back maybe she'll finally break Havok and prove to him he belongs on the Hellions team.
@@timothymoore6341 Jean didn't do anything to wrong Madelyne though, that was all Scott. Jean even urged Scott to go back to her, after learning of Madelyne and their child; then trying everything she could do to save Madelyne from dying. If anyone is owed hell, it's Scott and Sinister.
Wow you must be reading my mind I've been going through all my old X men books and I was Re reading Inferno this is the book that made me love the X- Men!! Hopefully you do X -Cursion Song and X- tinction Agenda next!!
To me, Inferno is 2 stories, one was Claremont turning crap into gold, and the other was Lousie Simonsen turning gold into crap. Having to redeem Scott Summers from the mistake that was bringing back Jean Grey for X-Factor and making Scott run out on his wife and newborn son by making Madelyn into a villain was one of the worst jobs anyone was given during this era of X-Men, and they somehow made a compelling story out of it with Sinister and the Uncanny issues are by far the best in the crossover. On the other hand they had what was supposed to be the final chapter of the story of Illyana Rasputin, the culmination of what should have been one of the best arcs in all of comics. This was gift-wrapped by Claremont years earlier in the Magik limited series and practically wrote itself. And Simonson just pissed all over that amazing setup. The New Mutants as a whole took a nosedive in quality after Claremont left to do Excalibur and Simonsen took over the book. She dumbed down the characters and as a general rule just didn't seem to get them, especially Illyana. It's astounding because she had been working with Claremont on these characters for years, but you'd never know it from the issues she wrote herself. Illyana's story was always supposed to have a tragic ending. That inevitability was part of what made her character compelling and different from other comics characters who are usually designed to stick around with no end-point. But that inevitability was supposed to be more like a Greek tragedy in that it didn't matter what Illyana did, the ending would be the same. Her personal failings and flaws might contribute to and hasten that end, but they were ultimately immaterial to it. Simonsen changed it to being a result of her immaturity. If she was only older and more experienced then all this could have been avoided, completely missing the point. This alone really messed up the payoff to Illyana's storyarc. This is the person who mercy-killed two people she loved and then spared the man who ruined her life because she knew what killing in anger would mean for her soul. This is the person who decided to let Karma possess Dani when Dani said she'd rather die than fight her friends because she knew it might come to that and Dani was putting herself in danger by hesitating to fight back, but also sent Warlock to Limbo to stay out of the fight because he would kill his friends as a first resort and she wouldn't do that until she was sure there was no hope for them. Simonsen's Illyana apparently never learned the lessons Claremont's Illyana learned, and as a result Inferno was caused by Illyana doing things she would never have done and not knowing things she knew very well when Claremont was writing her. From her personality to even the history of her 7 years in Limbo Simonsen somehow got everything wrong which she could have with Illyana. The other big problem with how Illyana's story was handled was the complete absence of Belasco. I'm just baffled that rather than bring back her first and greatest enemy for her final story, after teasing for years that he'd come back for her one day and that that was when her story would end, they instead create a new generic demon in his place. I don't know who is to blame for this, whether it's Simonson, Claremont, Shooter, or someone else in editorial, but there is no justification for not having Belasco be a major player in Inferno or allowing Illyana to have one final confrontation with him. Her story was not complete because of that. Many of the things N'Astirh does should have been done by Belasco, and Illyana should have had a final fight with him before sacrificing herself. Heck, the twist could have been her deciding sacrifice herself instead of fighting him, which could have been a great emotional payoff. Even N'Astirh's motivation, his feelings for Illyana and wanting her to embrace being the Darkchild, are basically the same as Belasco's only without the history and build-up. This is a big part of why I think bringing Illyana back in the 2000s was a good thing despite my usual stance that dead characters should stay dead. In a way it allowed the character to get the closure that Inferno failed so utterly to provide and to correct the mistakes of Inferno and several later stories. It's the complete opposite of when Jean was brought back. Instead of ruining and retconning a great story, it partially fixed a bad story. Instead of making a concept like the Phoenix needlessly complicated, it simplified the concept of the soulsword by getting rid of the winding way and soulsteel nonsense and returning to the original simpler idea that Illyana created the sword from a part of her soul. Instead of ruining characters like Cyclops and Madelyn it led to Colossus becoming more interesting as the Juggernaut and the other New Mutants getting the chance to come back into the spotlight.
I'm glad someone else chimed in on the X-Factor issues of this event as being crappy. I agree and the art stood out as atrocious. Silvestri totes outperformed Simonson. The best the Simonson's ever did was the 4 part Wolverine/Havok mini Meltdown. ✌❤😎
I'm going to defend Weezy on this one: She needed to dumb down the New Mutants because THEY WERE KIDS!! Readers at that time wanted them to fight X-Men villains, so they could get killed!! The whole team one time had to fight a Sabretooth clone half-dying IIRC while the whole of the X-Men fought the Marauders. Think what the REAL Sabretooth could do to them. Anyway, she wanted readers to remember that they were kids and needed lesser fights. Magik was TOO powerful for that team; throw the baddie in Limbo and say, "NEXT!" Getting rid of her "grounded" the others that they needed training. However, Weezy couldn't get New Mutants/X-Factor so she made X-Terminators. That's what should have happened: X-Factor training the kids while the X-Men were believed dead. I don't know what happened...
@@bratpack6571 Dumb down cuz they were kiddos?! It's funny how Claremont didn't feel the need to dumb the New Mutants down during his superior run. ✌❤😎
I like your Wanda theory it makes a lot of sense because it could explain why the mutants really consider her a pretender and it would fit with the native of professor Charles Xavier and magneto casts them as very dubious people who have motives which are not good.
I think the Mr. sinister we saw during inferno in the X Factor issues Has to be the most powerful version to date. He took on both X teams and wiped the floor with them pretty handily. Granted, he did get a little bit of help from Malice and Sabertooth. It makes me wonder though if sinister is clones are all capable of demonstrating this level of power.
Well, you got to admit, watching Apocalypse sacrifice him self and take on Nimrod in the future by himself during Powers of X was pretty bad ass. But yeah, I’m pretty disappointed we haven’t seen that awesome Inferno version of Mr. Sinister again.
I really hate the use of the term "retcon". There is a HUGE difference between something about someone being revealed and being changed. The fact that Maddy was a clone was a revelation. The fact that Jean was all of a sudden no longer the phoenix was a change and thus a retcon. There are MASSIVE differences between the two.
I remember this whole Inferno event effecting all of Marvel back in the 90s .. wondering the same , how dose she have that power too summon Dante's Inferno demons ? Weird how Over Power she is with no real explanation
i was in comics huge during these times, The Inferno saga was MY fav thing. It was amazing then in 91-92 things wasnt the same but i continued but prices and new people hurt it for me.
While that is a great theory for the Scarlet Witch, let's not forget the revelation of the Adamantium Agenda, if this is leading to Inferno 2 it's possible that Tonys discovery of a X-Man who isn't a mutant might actually payoff. Also I never read Inferno but from the way you described it they should have called Ghostbusters.
I definitely won't hold my breath that any hunt for wolverine minis really drive this era of X-Men. I'm not opposed, i just don't expect it. Also, the Ghostbusters do make a cameo, and it is promptly made very clear why this event needs the X-Men. No joke!
I totes avoided comic books during the hunt for Wolverine minis so have no idea what the Adamantium Agenda is. But yeah, I think it's safe to say that we have Ghostbusters (84) to thank for Inferno (and Claremont's obsession with the Alien franchise to thank for the Brood). One of the Reavers even brings up the Nostromo in Uncanny X-Men 252 or 253).
@@Comicbookherald well if you think about it, it already has. The Adimantium Agenda had Sinisters DNA collection of everyone on the planet which I think was mentioned in a Sinister secret about one being destroyed. So it wouldn't be too farfetched.
I hope they bring Madeline Pryor Back I still think that the aftermath of hellions for her was bull and the she should have been brought to Krakoa. She is not just a clone of Jean.
@@bradonbriffa9690 that would be very interesting and it could be something they actually do but they would been a notable clone to die. Maybe a stepford coco
@@kevinscott4519 I think Pryor is pretty notable it probably just hasn't been made public knowledge. Also the concept of a Krakoan protest would show no matter what the X-men can't escape picket signs
@@achillescolettas211 I’d be curious to hear your opinions on it. I’ve read all the X-men comics through ~Generation Hope and I feel like The Twelve and Maxim Security are two of the most useless X-men stories out there.
Yep! In the outback Storm is watching a news special on X-Factor and notices Jean and she goes berserk (Uncanny X-Men 239?). She then confronts Wolverine who confirms he smelled Jean's scent when they visited her parents home way back in Uncanny X-Men 215 (the main story involves Crimson Commando, Super Sabre, and Stonewall).✌❤😎
I love X-men around that time ... after Inferno ended... I started to loose interest and probably few months later I stopped buying the issues regularly. Since I’ve only bought a few special editions novels and of lately gotten a few omnibus instead ... though... nothing of X-men. I do intend to get New Mutantes Omnibus and Excalibur Omnibus
The way that the baby was manhandled, just thrown around like ragdoll, throughout the Inferno Saga it's a wonder that baby Nathan Christopher wasn't killed. I have to say that the New Mutants Brett Blevins art was horrible--TRAGIC!
Yep! I used to loathe the Blevins and Lombardi's fill in art during the 80s...what's funny is I kinda like it now when I look back...nostalgia and all that...✌❤😎
I love this event, love the ideas, love the art and I love Madelyne, I feel like this is one of the most underrated X-Men stuff out there, I feel like people hear about how Madelyne is a clone of Jean and check out, but the story taken as its own is fantastic and deserving of praise.
One of my favorite messy (but good) X-events, so glad you made this ! 👍🏽
Could you do a video about what ACTUALLY happened in X-Factor #1? That Scott did not dump Madelyne the moment Jean returned. In fact, you'll find that Maddie told him that if he left, to not bother coming back? And for the first 12 issues, he is shown as trying to call her and that the letters and support payment cheques he sent were returned unopened? And that he had been avoiding Jean until she figured out he was married in X-Factor #6? And that he & Jean didn't become lovers until after the Fall of the Mutants when they thought Maddie had sacrificed herself with the X-Men and was dead?
Love the theory about the Scarlet Witch being the center of the next Inferno. That's a story that needs to be told and fixed.
That can easily be done... but imagine how PISSED Wanda is going to be... LOL
Was surprised at how good the X-Termintators miniseries was.
Because Inferno follows and pays off so many previously X-stories, it makes the story nearly unadaptable to film. But it could actually be distilled to some interesting and original themes, as there are parallel connections between Ilyana and Madelyne Pryor and the trauma they both endured. Certainly what makes Inferno unique among comic book stories is its potential to explore these themes.
One reason why I like Inferno crossovers is that the dark enchantment that covers that Earth affects everyone. Especially the heroes. Some stay genuine to their cause and fight a little harder. Other heroes slowly change, physically and mentally. Sometimes their urge outways to what their purpose is, and they slowly stray off and become carnal
Love the idea and story and art! I’m just starting to collect it got a way to go!
I like your theory around Sinister's meddling leading to Wanda and Pietro not being mutants, but I still feel that another explanation Marvel could use to "unspite" themselves with that stupid retcon could be that Wanda's trauma ran as deep as her powers are omega level, so much so that it lead to her retconning her own self (and her brother's) so that she could be removed from being associated with Magneto
Exactly! She hates the mutant side of herself so much that she unknowingly warped reality to make them no longer related. I really hope they do this. I want to see more interactions of them as his children with Lorna.
@@jaimec1596 I really feel like it’s a logical progression in her no more mutants meltdown. She just needed as much distance as possible from the trauma of being Magneto’s daughter that she would essentially break the fourth wall to rewrite her entire existence, while simultaneously managing the guilt of what she did to her own people at the end of House of M.
@@AsiefD we are on the same page here.
Great ideas guys
@@AsiefD & then she did the same to poor Franklin Richards. LOL
We need Longshot back!
Only if they write him correctly. The last few times I've seen him show up, including his Saving the Marvel Universe mini, sucked. ✌❤😎
Then gambit would have to go
You missed the Excalibur tie in and Megan as the Goblin princess
Still my favorite X-Men story/crossover.
Seriously? How old are you if you don’t mind me asking. I’m in my 40s and picked up X-men in the mid 90s and always thought these 80s crossover were a bit over the top
Hate to be that guy, but limbo was infected by Warlock's father Magus, not Warlock. The infection was the impetus for the demon rebellion of limbo
PS I hate the Quicksilver has been retconned as not immune and Scarlet witch also as for Pietro he was one of the proudest mutants ever and to find out that he really wasn't one was a terrible idiotic retcon
The last image in the video of both primary X teams is good, but the Splash page is absolutely Awesome showing X-Factor vs the X-Men. Even Jean has a sarcastic line talking about the noobs. ;)
Inferno! This was the saga that sparked my love for comics & my 1st series. I was 15. This series is THE reason i still read comic & why the X-Men are my top superhero team, 2nd being the Avengers, Sinister is a certified badass in this, not the goofy clown he's portrayed to be in recent years
Mr Sinister was always my favourite X-Villain. And I liked the Madelyne story as well
This is where I jumped back into the X-Men and x factor universe when I was a kid. I feel like they're wasting Madeline right now. But yes this is one of the greatest stories in the X-Men universe
Sorry, please just let that dead clone lie dead. Her story was epic, & tragic. She left with a bang during Inferno. She should never have been brought back for more stories that never went anywhere. Finally killing her off & not resurrecting her (in Hellions) was a good, respectable send-off.
FOM was greatLInferno was the event that turned me into the hardcore hardcore X-men fan & collector
I’ve just gone back and gotten all the crossover issues I missed or no longer have. Inferno was my introduction to marvel comics and it was such a good intro back in the day
The family in the elevator scene was violent for its time. Love it!
I loved that scene too. The Demon Elevator ate the Family. Soo dark for those times.
When reading X-Men #4 (1964) Magneto quotes "...How the villagers called you a WITCH because of your MUTANT powers?", When reading this--I believe that Scarlet Witch is indeed a MUTANT.
Inferno was a pretty wild ride !
Silvestri's art was so different back then
Kind of prefer it, loved his art in the brood & fall of the mutants story lines. Storm leading the team, Wolverine second in command, young Rogue. etc.... Good Times
I can see a lot of Larazz in there too... hadn't realized that art on Xmen had gone back to almost 1980's style until watching this video
Thumbs-upped during the ad - I had no doubt this would be on-point. Thanks for all your work!
I loved this series! I made sure to buy all crossover issues. Fun fact, SpiderMan became Captain Universe during this series with Erik Larson's debut taking over after the Todd Father! ;)
Just the fact that Chris Claremont managed to fix Jim Shooters stupid move to separate Jean and the Phoenix entirety and almost devalued the Dark Phoenix saga, says a lot about his ability as a writer. And also people don't realise that it also gives validity to Hickman's resurrection protocols. If phoenix Jean wasn't the same as the "regular" Jean(and Madelyn) then the current X-Men are just clones of the people that died in HoX #4. The ressurected Jean of X-factor was the same but without the Phoenix "back ups". Which she regained when she merged with Madelyn.
if i remember correctly, Nathan was supposed to be Sinisters real name as a child mutant (who cant grow up) who projected the image of Sinister as what a child believes a supervillain is supposed to look like. So Nathan was named after Sinister, Corsair, and Professor X before editorial made Sinisters origin change to fit the Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix mini,
Nathaniel is Sinister’s real name
Yep! It was going on in the Classic X-Men issues as the bonus story. Claremont meant for both Sinister and Gambit to be the mental projections of the child mutant who couldn't age (and was also a douche towards Scott during his orphanage days). That's why Sinister is so monster/ghoul like and Gambit is so super cool...it's what a child would come up with. ✌❤😎
@@DragonReborn3769 WOW. I've heard of the child Sinister theory but didn't know about the Gambit part. That would've been BONKERS!
@@Jumpoable Right!! Lots of crazy Claremont unfinished story arcs. Wolverine was also going to be the Hand's true sleeper agent (with Psylocke as the feint) and Colossus was going to rip Wolverine's claws out of him in a huge fight in issue#280. I think Deathstrike was going to rip Wolvie's heart out before though, leading to the adamantium being ejected from his body. At one point Wolverine was going to basically have adamantium skin (Solem anyone?) and look like Silver Surfer but with claws. Then he leads The Hand, Jean Grey joins him to bring him back, Colossus rips his claws out, and he returns to the X-Men with his hair in adamantium highlights!! Would have been fun to read if not for effing Bob Harras...✌❤😎
@@DragonReborn3769 Claremont wanted to bring some of those stories back in the 2000s, but alas, the zeitgeist had passed & the magic was gone. :(
I still love his X-Men run, & his work on NM & especially Excalibur with Alan Davis (the art was phenomenal), but his writing just seems rather dated now (too wordy, but not in a good way)...
But hey we had Morrison, & now Hickman!
Totally new directions but YAY really feels as epic & grand as those classic Claremont storylines.
Wait I am confused how did the x-men get rid of all the demons before they fought Sinister
@ 22:00 so we are not going to mention Rouge's Patty Labelle hairstyle from the 80"s? We're are not? Oh, Okay, LOL! I got a New Attitude....LOL
Not one of her better looks
Great story.
I always got alot of Ghostbusters vibes from this event: The New York setting, demon take over, dark humor, but of course, with X-Men you have the long form soap tropes playing out that the IP was so good at.
Good timing. I was looking up recently if a collected edition exists and saw they are releasing the hardcover omnibus at the end of March. Seems that Inferno has a good chance to be next year's X book crossover. Great video, as always!
Hope Madelyn Pryor gets resurrected somehow if they do a sequel to the Inferno event
@@210SAi I am 100% certain she will be back; Madelyn is too important to just have a brief appearance in the first Hellions arc. She may not be resurrected by Krakoan protocols, but she'll come back and be pissed that she was deemed not good enough to be revived. She clearly wants to be seen as her own person, but the Quiet Council doesn't seem to see it that way. And when Maddy does come back maybe she'll finally break Havok and prove to him he belongs on the Hellions team.
Would be nice if the Inferno babies joined the rest of the mutants on Krakoa
One of my favorite events.
I can't wait for Madelyne and Jean to face off in their current iterations
Hopefully it'll happen again one day soon. Madelyne kind of owes Jean and Sinister hell!
Jean would mop the floor with Madeline. Jean is an omega-level mutant!
@@maryse8 that would Madelyne is too
@@timothymoore6341 Jean didn't do anything to wrong Madelyne though, that was all Scott. Jean even urged Scott to go back to her, after learning of Madelyne and their child; then trying everything she could do to save Madelyne from dying. If anyone is owed hell, it's Scott and Sinister.
Madelyne is dead and will not be resurrected so unless theres some shenanigans they'll never face off again.
Tytyty!! Been needing a good deep dive on this
Wow you must be reading my mind I've been going through all my old X men books and I was Re reading Inferno this is the book that made me love the X- Men!! Hopefully you do X -Cursion Song and X- tinction Agenda next!!
They pale in comparison to Inferno.
I would be so down for that Wanda Inferno idea
To me, Inferno is 2 stories, one was Claremont turning crap into gold, and the other was Lousie Simonsen turning gold into crap. Having to redeem Scott Summers from the mistake that was bringing back Jean Grey for X-Factor and making Scott run out on his wife and newborn son by making Madelyn into a villain was one of the worst jobs anyone was given during this era of X-Men, and they somehow made a compelling story out of it with Sinister and the Uncanny issues are by far the best in the crossover. On the other hand they had what was supposed to be the final chapter of the story of Illyana Rasputin, the culmination of what should have been one of the best arcs in all of comics. This was gift-wrapped by Claremont years earlier in the Magik limited series and practically wrote itself. And Simonson just pissed all over that amazing setup.
The New Mutants as a whole took a nosedive in quality after Claremont left to do Excalibur and Simonsen took over the book. She dumbed down the characters and as a general rule just didn't seem to get them, especially Illyana. It's astounding because she had been working with Claremont on these characters for years, but you'd never know it from the issues she wrote herself. Illyana's story was always supposed to have a tragic ending. That inevitability was part of what made her character compelling and different from other comics characters who are usually designed to stick around with no end-point. But that inevitability was supposed to be more like a Greek tragedy in that it didn't matter what Illyana did, the ending would be the same. Her personal failings and flaws might contribute to and hasten that end, but they were ultimately immaterial to it. Simonsen changed it to being a result of her immaturity. If she was only older and more experienced then all this could have been avoided, completely missing the point. This alone really messed up the payoff to Illyana's storyarc. This is the person who mercy-killed two people she loved and then spared the man who ruined her life because she knew what killing in anger would mean for her soul. This is the person who decided to let Karma possess Dani when Dani said she'd rather die than fight her friends because she knew it might come to that and Dani was putting herself in danger by hesitating to fight back, but also sent Warlock to Limbo to stay out of the fight because he would kill his friends as a first resort and she wouldn't do that until she was sure there was no hope for them. Simonsen's Illyana apparently never learned the lessons Claremont's Illyana learned, and as a result Inferno was caused by Illyana doing things she would never have done and not knowing things she knew very well when Claremont was writing her. From her personality to even the history of her 7 years in Limbo Simonsen somehow got everything wrong which she could have with Illyana.
The other big problem with how Illyana's story was handled was the complete absence of Belasco. I'm just baffled that rather than bring back her first and greatest enemy for her final story, after teasing for years that he'd come back for her one day and that that was when her story would end, they instead create a new generic demon in his place. I don't know who is to blame for this, whether it's Simonson, Claremont, Shooter, or someone else in editorial, but there is no justification for not having Belasco be a major player in Inferno or allowing Illyana to have one final confrontation with him. Her story was not complete because of that. Many of the things N'Astirh does should have been done by Belasco, and Illyana should have had a final fight with him before sacrificing herself. Heck, the twist could have been her deciding sacrifice herself instead of fighting him, which could have been a great emotional payoff. Even N'Astirh's motivation, his feelings for Illyana and wanting her to embrace being the Darkchild, are basically the same as Belasco's only without the history and build-up.
This is a big part of why I think bringing Illyana back in the 2000s was a good thing despite my usual stance that dead characters should stay dead. In a way it allowed the character to get the closure that Inferno failed so utterly to provide and to correct the mistakes of Inferno and several later stories. It's the complete opposite of when Jean was brought back. Instead of ruining and retconning a great story, it partially fixed a bad story. Instead of making a concept like the Phoenix needlessly complicated, it simplified the concept of the soulsword by getting rid of the winding way and soulsteel nonsense and returning to the original simpler idea that Illyana created the sword from a part of her soul. Instead of ruining characters like Cyclops and Madelyn it led to Colossus becoming more interesting as the Juggernaut and the other New Mutants getting the chance to come back into the spotlight.
Checked out before finishing the first paragraph
I'm glad someone else chimed in on the X-Factor issues of this event as being crappy. I agree and the art stood out as atrocious. Silvestri totes outperformed Simonson. The best the Simonson's ever did was the 4 part Wolverine/Havok mini Meltdown. ✌❤😎
I'm going to defend Weezy on this one: She needed to dumb down the New Mutants because THEY WERE KIDS!! Readers at that time wanted them to fight X-Men villains, so they could get killed!! The whole team one time had to fight a Sabretooth clone half-dying IIRC while the whole of the X-Men fought the Marauders. Think what the REAL Sabretooth could do to them. Anyway, she wanted readers to remember that they were kids and needed lesser fights. Magik was TOO powerful for that team; throw the baddie in Limbo and say, "NEXT!" Getting rid of her "grounded" the others that they needed training. However, Weezy couldn't get New Mutants/X-Factor so she made X-Terminators. That's what should have happened: X-Factor training the kids while the X-Men were believed dead. I don't know what happened...
@@bratpack6571 Dumb down cuz they were kiddos?! It's funny how Claremont didn't feel the need to dumb the New Mutants down during his superior run. ✌❤😎
@@210SAi Checked out before finishing your last character.
I like your Wanda theory it makes a lot of sense because it could explain why the mutants really consider her a pretender and it would fit with the native of professor Charles Xavier and magneto casts them as very dubious people who have motives which are not good.
I think the Mr. sinister we saw during inferno in the X Factor issues Has to be the most powerful version to date. He took on both X teams and wiped the floor with them pretty handily. Granted, he did get a little bit of help from Malice and Sabertooth. It makes me wonder though if sinister is clones are all capable of demonstrating this level of power.
Doubt it. They’ve nerfed him down just like Apocalypse
Nothing like the OG supervillains of the 80s! 😊✌❤😎
Well, you got to admit, watching Apocalypse sacrifice him self and take on Nimrod in the future by himself during Powers of X was pretty bad ass. But yeah, I’m pretty disappointed we haven’t seen that awesome Inferno version of Mr. Sinister again.
We do have the grand return of Cameron Hodge coming up. Let’s see if we get a neutered or menacing version of his character.@@DragonReborn3769
@@210SAi Apocalypse took down Annihilation so not really nerfed down. ✌❤😎
I really hate the use of the term "retcon". There is a HUGE difference between something about someone being revealed and being changed. The fact that Maddy was a clone was a revelation. The fact that Jean was all of a sudden no longer the phoenix was a change and thus a retcon. There are MASSIVE differences between the two.
How did Madeline got the Goblin Queen powers and persona?
I remember this whole Inferno event effecting all of Marvel back in the 90s .. wondering the same , how dose she have that power too summon Dante's Inferno demons ? Weird how Over Power she is with no real explanation
This was my favorite event since i was a teen.
i was in comics huge during these times, The Inferno saga was MY fav thing. It was amazing then in 91-92 things wasnt the same but i continued but prices and new people hurt it for me.
While that is a great theory for the Scarlet Witch, let's not forget the revelation of the Adamantium Agenda, if this is leading to Inferno 2 it's possible that Tonys discovery of a X-Man who isn't a mutant might actually payoff. Also I never read Inferno but from the way you described it they should have called Ghostbusters.
I definitely won't hold my breath that any hunt for wolverine minis really drive this era of X-Men. I'm not opposed, i just don't expect it.
Also, the Ghostbusters do make a cameo, and it is promptly made very clear why this event needs the X-Men. No joke!
I totes avoided comic books during the hunt for Wolverine minis so have no idea what the Adamantium Agenda is. But yeah, I think it's safe to say that we have Ghostbusters (84) to thank for Inferno (and Claremont's obsession with the Alien franchise to thank for the Brood). One of the Reavers even brings up the Nostromo in Uncanny X-Men 252 or 253).
@@Comicbookherald well if you think about it, it already has. The Adimantium Agenda had Sinisters DNA collection of everyone on the planet which I think was mentioned in a Sinister secret about one being destroyed. So it wouldn't be too farfetched.
@@DragonReborn3769 you should read the Adamantium Agenda it is so cool out of the 4 minis it's easily the best
@@bradonbriffa9690 I may do so mate!! ✌❤😎
Back here because hickman's new inferno book coming later this year
I remember getting everything for this event. I used all my paper route money.
Inferno was the best. X-Men #242 might be the best single issue of the entire Claremont era.
I hope they bring Madeline Pryor Back I still think that the aftermath of hellions for her was bull and the she should have been brought to Krakoa. She is not just a clone of Jean.
What if it leads to a clones rights movement on Krakoa. "We are not just copies." I can see Gabby and Laura leading that.
@@bradonbriffa9690 that would be very interesting and it could be something they actually do but they would been a notable clone to die. Maybe a stepford coco
@@kevinscott4519 I think Pryor is pretty notable it probably just hasn't been made public knowledge. Also the concept of a Krakoan protest would show no matter what the X-men can't escape picket signs
@@bradonbriffa9690 Gaby knows about so the news is out there to the other mutants
Currently reading the X-Men v Apocalypse The Twelve Omnibus. Thanks for this review
Ugh! Possibly the worst X-men event ever. Came and went with zero impact on anything moving forward
@@210SAi lol I am just catching up because like most people I jumped off after the onslaught event
@@achillescolettas211 I’d be curious to hear your opinions on it. I’ve read all the X-men comics through ~Generation Hope and I feel like The Twelve and Maxim Security are two of the most useless X-men stories out there.
Pretty sure Wolverine told Storm that Jean was alive.
Yep! In the outback Storm is watching a news special on X-Factor and notices Jean and she goes berserk (Uncanny X-Men 239?). She then confronts Wolverine who confirms he smelled Jean's scent when they visited her parents home way back in Uncanny X-Men 215 (the main story involves Crimson Commando, Super Sabre, and Stonewall).✌❤😎
Isnt Nas'tyr the demon that ends up getting phalanxed?
Claremont would plot out stories a hundred issues in advance
Great vid!!
Loved it. Maddie was did wrong and this was their reclamation of Cyclops' and Jeans' reputations from being trash people at their core. Lol.
Mr sinister: I’m in danger
I love X-men around that time ... after Inferno ended... I started to loose interest and probably few months later I stopped buying the issues regularly. Since I’ve only bought a few special editions novels and of lately gotten a few omnibus instead ... though... nothing of X-men. I do intend to get New Mutantes Omnibus and Excalibur Omnibus
wait I thought the original ending for the pheonix saga was that jean grey lived but now claremont wants jean to stay dead?
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I loved Inferno but mad that Maddie has to turn evil and then die. That shit sucked ass and sucked ass big time.
Good
This is my favorite....it was insane snowflake rocks ..
Madeleine and Havock...😳🤦
Mauraders wasted in favor of demons.
Anybody read this please give me your opinion, 1 to 10 scale what would you give it
Rad
The next part of the X-Men = UGH. The mindwiped post siege perilous wandering around era up until the X-Tinction Agenda/ Professor X re-union...
Totes loved the Uncanny X-Men issues of X-tinction Agenda and the Lady Mandarin three parter coming up in the mid 250's. ✌❤😎
The way that the baby was manhandled, just thrown around like ragdoll, throughout the Inferno Saga it's a wonder that baby Nathan Christopher wasn't killed. I have to say that the New Mutants Brett Blevins art was horrible--TRAGIC!
Yep! I used to loathe the Blevins and Lombardi's fill in art during the 80s...what's funny is I kinda like it now when I look back...nostalgia and all that...✌❤😎
Actually, rereading it, I know get why adult (& teen) Cable is so f'd up. Childhood trauma is REAL, y'all! :(
I'm the only idiot that likes Blevins's art
I was the 666th like. You're welcome.
You should have Zack join you occasionally on TH-cam.