I wish someone would address a workplace culture in which there are a couple of employees pull the wool over supervisors or they are very good at charming leadership that they create a hostile work environment. When you bring concerns that impede the work that you are trying to do it’s taken as something personal rather than for what it is… disruptive.
I hear you, there are definitely times when people can control the image projected compared to the actual impact they are making. I'm sorry you are going through this. We need more cultures of feedback and conversations.
I think much of what you’re describing is rooted in narcissistic behavior patterns. Unfortunately people who are highly narcissistic tend to reach leadership positions. And their narcissistic behavioral styles tend to take things as personal attacks. Their only goal is to protect the “image” at all cost and to thwart anyone who jeopardizes that image (in their mind)
I think quiet firing is also about not having to pay unemployment. Get them to quit so the company doesn't have to pay out. It's always bottom line. And you can forget about going to HR because they protect the company, not the employees.
I’ve worked as a nurse for 7 years. Started out med surg neuro step down. Never staffed appropriately on the shift and would have either twice the amount of pts or high risk pts then other nurses on the floor. Kept writing it up, manager would just throw it away and then started targeting me. She succeeded in getting me fired. Fast forward a few years, was working in hospice nurse position. The medical director refused to medicate pts appropriately according to pts needs, she may as well not prescribed anything. I mentioned this to manager. Within a month of this, I was placed on a pip. I knew what was going to happen so I immediately started job search. Low and behold I was fired on a Tuesday and by the following Monday I had a new job I was starting. However, as far as I’m concerned no employer will ever get my loyalty again. After being betrayed and backstabbed by my employers, you get what you get. I’m done going out of my way for any company. I’m also no longer going to kill myself for a job either. I’m done busting my ass for an employer that would fire me in a heartbeat. You get what the job description says and that’s it.
We have too many folks in management that are accidental managers who don't have the training, the skills, and the accountability. So often people are held accountable for results that are transactional and not creating a culture that could be transformational.
I'm so sorry to hear that you have been put in this situation, but happy to hear you are standing up. Fighting back can carry risks, but it's one way things will change.
Yes lot of retaliation going on. They get away with it because they make the policies and they also enforce the policies so when you file a complaint they just don't ever investigate and throw it in the trash can and nothing happens. I lived through 3 years of hell. And I want accountability
Navigating retaliation is so common and harmful. I'm sorry you are experiencing this. Often organizations protect people in power, people who bring in money, people, who know people, etc. We've seen this over and over. Another challenge is that retaliation can be so subtle that it can be hard to fight. Even if you do have factual back up, the risk to you can be significant.
45yo veteran with an undergrad in marketing and a masters in management. Ive worked in management and as a rank and file employee. When it comes to bullying women are way worse than men. Generally speaking, men bully men. Women bully women and men. Men will utilize aggression. Women will make a game of it. They will be the aggressor andbthen paint themselves as a victim. Ive seen this time and time again.
This is happen with me right now. Because one time I reported them brought a cellphone and taking a picture in the jail. from there until they also manipulate me even reported to HR and using my weakness ( my voice loud and high pitch ) They also tried to lie the words I do not said they told I stated the word . now I have diagnoses my hearing some loss because the door of jail so loud . They success with they were lied I got suspended for 40 hours. I got traumatize to go to work now.
I am being quietly fired right now. It all started years ago when I was bullied and assaulted by a boss. I thought we were supposed to be honest with HR. It backfired. I do my job and I’m quiet and kinda hide so they haven’t been able to find a reason. I hate going to work. I have panic attacks, anxiety, my palms sweat, cry, I’ve lost 9 lbs in 1 month. I don’t dress nice anymore and hide under big jackets even though I lost 100 lbs. then come back to work and hear ppl talking about your VSG surgery. But you never told anyone not even your family. They talk about me, don’t engage, I go 11 hours and don’t speak to anyone. I do my job but lately they have been doing PIPs for small things, no coachings, discuss my LOA information, track my screen all day while discussing it and I can hear them but then gas light me. Secret chats, ppl pick on my hair, glasses, body, smile. I’ve become a punching bag. Some days I can’t even get out of my car. I just sit and sob for 30 minutes or more. I’m always in fear. The security guards watch me. I finally made a complaint to HR last week and told of the sexual harassment, bullying, drug use on the premises, lack of customer support or protection. She immediately gaslit me and started and investigation but hasn’t asked any questions. I’m terrified. Someone followed me home the other day. Can you guess please help me? Or at least just save this comment on your video in case anything happens. I just….. I don’t know why me. Have you every walked into a place where your whole body starts shutting down to try and stop you from going. Have you had people talk about you loud enough to for you to hear it then smile in your face. Blast music so loud at work you can’t hear. Pause it right at your break time and as soon as you walk off turn it back up and celebrate that your gone. Ask a question in the group chat and no one responds for 30 minutes to you but everyone else. Cross your name off the team list “mistakenly” I feel like nothing in that building. No one understands or even could believe it is happening but it is. I am so hyper alert but also dead at the same time. Every single part of my life has been touched. I don’t go out, I don’t have friends, I can’t even get out of bed on a off days. I know after reading all of this you probably don’t understand why I’m still there. Idk either. God help me. I sent an 📧
Just seeing this now. Whew. Big breaths for you. I'm sorry this has been your experience and sadly isn't unique for so many. I hope you are able to find somewhere that you most importantly feel safe and supported. When in doubt, document everything. I hope, hope you are leave and go somewhere different. The costs to our physical and mental health are significant.
I'd sue. I'm going through the same thing just for reporting sexual harassment, workplace violence, bullying, threats, and quiet retaliation to loud retaliation. I've documented EVERYTHING. I'm looking for a good employment lawyer in my city and state now.
I’m sorry that this is happening to people at work place everyday. I’m one of them. This is causing me problems with anxiety and all kinds of problems. I’m confused and not knowing how to go about solving these problems. Please let me know what the best ways to resolve it. Good luck and god bless.
@@tsmith3522 Best of luck to you, fighting discrimination and harassment can be a significant hill to climb both in time, energy and money. I hope you are able to find someone you trust to advocate for you.
Having worked with thousands of people in positions of power and authority, I can say with confidence there are some amazing people in leadership positions. And I can say with confidence there are people who shouldn't have that much power and authority over others. Way too much hurt and damage happening and usually from a place of good intentions.
I was sick with Covid temp 100.4-101.6 and pink going go for 2 weeks, came back to work with doctor note. Boss gave a letter, get (3) of you will be fired. OSHA stated you should and employer job to make safe place to work. My employer is basically say should’ve came to work sick
Always fight fire with fire and don’t just go to HR and the boss. You need to include everyone. Your bosses boss, legal team, everyone. If your boss right you up, respond to everyone with your evidence then HR must do something. HR is not going to do anything if it is one on one. Make it you against the world. Any boss I get knows that if they write me up, it is game on and I am going to the ceo all the way down, and best believe they do not want that smoke. I already gave my boss a snippet and he has backed all the way down. Trust me, I am out here to win.
I'm so sorry that you had to deal with this and didn't have the support of your organization. One of my favorite authors @tarajayefrank outlines the four needs of talent "To be seen, To be valued, To be respected, and To be protected". That last one gets missed too often.
You'll be quietly fired if you buck the status quo. Status quo benefits a select few who run the place, threaten that and you threaten those in power, and sure as shit they will retaliate. In Australia at least, staying until you're fired is more financially beneficial since the only way you can fire someone for "no reason" is redundancy, in which case you're entitled to a payout proportional to your years of service
I am a victim of this currently, my manager is causing so much harm and pain for me. He is absolutely causing harm and not helping me and not responding to me and wanting me to leave. I told him I’m not leaving and he admitted he can’t let me go due to performance, but another stakeholder even talked about me at a company holiday party in an open setting as I heard from a witness and there were lots of witnesses. I am in a horrible situation right now.
I hate everything about this for you. And sadly the pattern is so consistent. Our relationships at work can have incredible impact on our not just our emotional but mental and physical well being. I hope you are able to find a place where you are valued.
“There’s no such thing as “quiet firing,” it’s retaliation.” Exactly, they want you to quit because they can’t or won’t just fire you and face the potential consequences of that.
Some of these stories are way worse than I experienced. I worked for a library district for a year. Halfway through, they hired a guy who worked with me some, and at the other libraries in the district some. Everything was great for a few months. But the upper management never took my coworker or myself seriously or implemented any of our ideas (but they did, with the other librarians in the district). They announced they were replacing me (immediately after the conclusion of the summer reading program I headed up with little coaching or experience, and not paying me as a manager even though I was doing all the work of one), so I started job searching. My coworker and I quit on the same day and found new jobs in a week. And now he's my boyfriend, and it's getting very serious. So there is that.... 😁
Forgot to mention: my former coworker-now-boyfriend and I are both Autistic. We did not disclose this to administration, except I did disclose mine a week before we quit. My director's face changed. She had me fill out a Reasonable Accomodation form, but it was too little, too late. She had already taken too much of my mental health.
@@betsywoolbright8059 I am so glad you were able to find connection and new opportunities. The cost can be so significant to our health. For me, working in a toxic environment also led to a serious erosion of my confidence that took me years to regain.
I had a boss at a company where we had to log billable hours reduce my work. When I logged Vacation Hours, he freaked bc it must have occurred to him that I'd not taken a day off in a year, and he was not going to be able to say I got anything other than what I deserved.
I am currently trying to find the delineation between bad management and Quiet Firing in my current employer. I ask myself: "Which one is it with my current employer?"
It is disgusting! It is happening to me no doubt. Written up for the same dates! I am not allowing them to fire me and if so the least they can do is give unemployment
Do you have the authority to discipline the employees for the behavior? Even just starting with a verbal warning and a plan to address the underlying issue?
Sounds like a performance issue potentially. I wonder how you have approached giving that person feedback on the impact of their behavior. And if so what was their response?
It's not at all "workplace retaliation" if the employ is a dumb ass, worthless employee who's continually irresponsible. Any person who won't do his job as hired surely doesn't deserve to actually keep his job. Case closed -
I wish someone would address a workplace culture in which there are a couple of employees pull the wool over supervisors or they are very good at charming leadership that they create a hostile work environment. When you bring concerns that impede the work that you are trying to do it’s taken as something personal rather than for what it is… disruptive.
I hear you, there are definitely times when people can control the image projected compared to the actual impact they are making. I'm sorry you are going through this. We need more cultures of feedback and conversations.
I think much of what you’re describing is rooted in narcissistic behavior patterns. Unfortunately people who are highly narcissistic tend to reach leadership positions. And their narcissistic behavioral styles tend to take things as personal attacks. Their only goal is to protect the “image” at all cost and to thwart anyone who jeopardizes that image (in their mind)
Those people hive a high rate of consequences for their actions. The higher up in the company they get the harder they fall when it happens.
This is happening to me right now possible retaliation for reporting a previous case of retaliation about racism issues
Exactly!!!
I think quiet firing is also about not having to pay unemployment. Get them to quit so the company doesn't have to pay out. It's always bottom line. And you can forget about going to HR because they protect the company, not the employees.
I have definitely seen this happen in organizations.
I’ve worked as a nurse for 7 years. Started out med surg neuro step down. Never staffed appropriately on the shift and would have either twice the amount of pts or high risk pts then other nurses on the floor. Kept writing it up, manager would just throw it away and then started targeting me. She succeeded in getting me fired. Fast forward a few years, was working in hospice nurse position. The medical director refused to medicate pts appropriately according to pts needs, she may as well not prescribed anything. I mentioned this to manager. Within a month of this, I was placed on a pip. I knew what was going to happen so I immediately started job search. Low and behold I was fired on a Tuesday and by the following Monday I had a new job I was starting. However, as far as I’m concerned no employer will ever get my loyalty again. After being betrayed and backstabbed by my employers, you get what you get. I’m done going out of my way for any company. I’m also no longer going to kill myself for a job either. I’m done busting my ass for an employer that would fire me in a heartbeat. You get what the job description says and that’s it.
Fellow nurse here. There is NO bigger back stabbing occupation. Best wishes to you.
We have too many folks in management that are accidental managers who don't have the training, the skills, and the accountability. So often people are held accountable for results that are transactional and not creating a culture that could be transformational.
@@cmsbethyes! Had I known it would be like high school all over again, I would never have chosen this field.
@@cmsbethperfectly said! Have 11 yrs left in nursing. It's brutal.
@elizabeths9910 totally high school!
WOW!!!! My mom just got guiet fired!!!! I KNEW there was a name for how she was being treated up until this event!! Thank you!!
Yes now we are in court. Enough of bad treatments. Someone has to stand up to this
I'm so sorry to hear that you have been put in this situation, but happy to hear you are standing up. Fighting back can carry risks, but it's one way things will change.
@@SarahNollWilson yes but some risks are worth taking
Yes lot of retaliation going on. They get away with it because they make the policies and they also enforce the policies so when you file a complaint they just don't ever investigate and throw it in the trash can and nothing happens. I lived through 3 years of hell. And I want accountability
Navigating retaliation is so common and harmful. I'm sorry you are experiencing this. Often organizations protect people in power, people who bring in money, people, who know people, etc. We've seen this over and over. Another challenge is that retaliation can be so subtle that it can be hard to fight. Even if you do have factual back up, the risk to you can be significant.
45yo veteran with an undergrad in marketing and a masters in management. Ive worked in management and as a rank and file employee.
When it comes to bullying women are way worse than men. Generally speaking, men bully men. Women bully women and men. Men will utilize aggression. Women will make a game of it. They will be the aggressor andbthen paint themselves as a victim. Ive seen this time and time again.
This is happen with me right now. Because one time I reported them brought a cellphone and taking a picture in the jail. from there until they also manipulate me even reported to HR and using my weakness ( my voice loud and high pitch ) They also tried to lie the words I do not said they told I stated the word . now I have diagnoses my hearing some loss because the door of jail so loud . They success with they were lied I got suspended for 40 hours. I got traumatize to go to work now.
I am being quietly fired right now.
It all started years ago when I was bullied and assaulted by a boss. I thought we were supposed to be honest with HR. It backfired. I do my job and I’m quiet and kinda hide so they haven’t been able to find a reason.
I hate going to work. I have panic attacks, anxiety, my palms sweat, cry, I’ve lost 9 lbs in 1 month. I don’t dress nice anymore and hide under big jackets even though I lost 100 lbs. then come back to work and hear ppl talking about your VSG surgery. But you never told anyone not even your family.
They talk about me, don’t engage, I go 11 hours and don’t speak to anyone.
I do my job but lately they have been doing PIPs for small things, no coachings, discuss my LOA information, track my screen all day while discussing it and I can hear them but then gas light me.
Secret chats, ppl pick on my hair, glasses, body, smile.
I’ve become a punching bag.
Some days I can’t even get out of my car. I just sit and sob for 30 minutes or more.
I’m always in fear.
The security guards watch me.
I finally made a complaint to HR last week and told of the sexual harassment, bullying, drug use on the premises, lack of customer support or protection. She immediately gaslit me and started and investigation but hasn’t asked any questions.
I’m terrified.
Someone followed me home the other day.
Can you guess please help me?
Or at least just save this comment on your video in case anything happens.
I just….. I don’t know why me.
Have you every walked into a place where your whole body starts shutting down to try and stop you from going. Have you had people talk about you loud enough to for you to hear it then smile in your face. Blast music so loud at work you can’t hear. Pause it right at your break time and as soon as you walk off turn it back up and celebrate that your gone.
Ask a question in the group chat and no one responds for 30 minutes to you but everyone else.
Cross your name off the team list “mistakenly”
I feel like nothing in that building. No one understands or even could believe it is happening but it is.
I am so hyper alert but also dead at the same time.
Every single part of my life has been touched.
I don’t go out, I don’t have friends, I can’t even get out of bed on a off days.
I know after reading all of this you probably don’t understand why I’m still there.
Idk either.
God help me.
I sent an 📧
Just seeing this now. Whew. Big breaths for you. I'm sorry this has been your experience and sadly isn't unique for so many. I hope you are able to find somewhere that you most importantly feel safe and supported. When in doubt, document everything. I hope, hope you are leave and go somewhere different. The costs to our physical and mental health are significant.
I'd sue. I'm going through the same thing just for reporting sexual harassment, workplace violence, bullying, threats, and quiet retaliation to loud retaliation. I've documented EVERYTHING. I'm looking for a good employment lawyer in my city and state now.
If it is that bad then you need to quit. I would never advise anyone to quit but stand up and fight because these things follow you.
I’m sorry that this is happening to people at work place everyday. I’m one of them. This is causing me problems with anxiety and all kinds of problems. I’m confused and not knowing how to go about solving these problems. Please let me know what the best ways to resolve it. Good luck and god bless.
@@tsmith3522 Best of luck to you, fighting discrimination and harassment can be a significant hill to climb both in time, energy and money. I hope you are able to find someone you trust to advocate for you.
Yes this is true managers use cats paw technique or utilizing the power of their superiors to kill an employees career slowly overtime.
Yep, but you have to be unkillable
Having worked with thousands of people in positions of power and authority, I can say with confidence there are some amazing people in leadership positions. And I can say with confidence there are people who shouldn't have that much power and authority over others. Way too much hurt and damage happening and usually from a place of good intentions.
I was so proficient they dismissed me lol. Take that for retaliation and insecurity
I was sick with Covid temp 100.4-101.6 and pink going go for 2 weeks, came back to work with doctor note. Boss gave a letter, get (3) of you will be fired. OSHA stated you should and employer job to make safe place to work. My employer is basically say should’ve came to work sick
Always fight fire with fire and don’t just go to HR and the boss. You need to include everyone. Your bosses boss, legal team, everyone. If your boss right you up, respond to everyone with your evidence then HR must do something. HR is not going to do anything if it is one on one. Make it you against the world. Any boss I get knows that if they write me up, it is game on and I am going to the ceo all the way down, and best believe they do not want that smoke. I already gave my boss a snippet and he has backed all the way down. Trust me, I am out here to win.
I'm so sorry that you had to deal with this and didn't have the support of your organization. One of my favorite authors @tarajayefrank outlines the four needs of talent "To be seen, To be valued, To be respected, and To be protected". That last one gets missed too often.
You'll be quietly fired if you buck the status quo. Status quo benefits a select few who run the place, threaten that and you threaten those in power, and sure as shit they will retaliate. In Australia at least, staying until you're fired is more financially beneficial since the only way you can fire someone for "no reason" is redundancy, in which case you're entitled to a payout proportional to your years of service
I am a victim of this currently, my manager is causing so much harm and pain for me. He is absolutely causing harm and not helping me and not responding to me and wanting me to leave. I told him I’m not leaving and he admitted he can’t let me go due to performance, but another stakeholder even talked about me at a company holiday party in an open setting as I heard from a witness and there were lots of witnesses. I am in a horrible situation right now.
I hate everything about this for you. And sadly the pattern is so consistent. Our relationships at work can have incredible impact on our not just our emotional but mental and physical well being. I hope you are able to find a place where you are valued.
@@SarahNollWilson thank you so much
So sorry. Hang in there and find a place that will appreciate you!
@@belindamiller6349 thank you I am trying
Quiet firieing leads to loud mass shootings on the job!!!! Trust and believe!!!!
Yikes! Have you experienced working where this happened?
Scary shit...
Would you say, a position being eliminated is a form of quiet firing?
“There’s no such thing as “quiet firing,” it’s retaliation.”
Exactly, they want you to quit because they can’t or won’t just fire you and face the potential consequences of that.
What consequences?
Some of these stories are way worse than I experienced. I worked for a library district for a year. Halfway through, they hired a guy who worked with me some, and at the other libraries in the district some. Everything was great for a few months. But the upper management never took my coworker or myself seriously or implemented any of our ideas (but they did, with the other librarians in the district). They announced they were replacing me (immediately after the conclusion of the summer reading program I headed up with little coaching or experience, and not paying me as a manager even though I was doing all the work of one), so I started job searching. My coworker and I quit on the same day and found new jobs in a week. And now he's my boyfriend, and it's getting very serious. So there is that.... 😁
Forgot to mention: my former coworker-now-boyfriend and I are both Autistic. We did not disclose this to administration, except I did disclose mine a week before we quit. My director's face changed. She had me fill out a Reasonable Accomodation form, but it was too little, too late. She had already taken too much of my mental health.
@@betsywoolbright8059 I am so glad you were able to find connection and new opportunities. The cost can be so significant to our health. For me, working in a toxic environment also led to a serious erosion of my confidence that took me years to regain.
I sure did!!! It happens more than u think!!! Some management members are afraid to go out in public!!!
100%
I had a boss at a company where we had to log billable hours reduce my work. When I logged Vacation Hours, he freaked bc it must have occurred to him that I'd not taken a day off in a year, and he was not going to be able to say I got anything other than what I deserved.
Great stuff!
I am currently trying to find the delineation between bad management and Quiet Firing in my current employer. I ask myself: "Which one is it with my current employer?"
I'm not sure they are different :)
OMG this is what happened to me! 😮
Ugh, I hate this for you!
This is not even a new concept. During good times, companies are lax. When they are about to lay off, not always, but often things get strange first.
I believe that.
It is disgusting! It is happening to me no doubt. Written up for the same dates! I am not allowing them to fire me and if so the least they can do is give unemployment
Navigating these situations can be so difficult. How are you taking care of yourself?
What about retaliation coming from the employee? As a manager, I’m constantly dealing with passive aggressive and undermining of my authority
Do you have the authority to discipline the employees for the behavior? Even just starting with a verbal warning and a plan to address the underlying issue?
If you have employees being insubordinate, then handle it through documentation and counseling.
Sounds like a performance issue potentially. I wonder how you have approached giving that person feedback on the impact of their behavior. And if so what was their response?
I have a story/example that I think you two would love to hear. I tried to email you but got a returned undeliverable message after sending my story.
try sending to Hello@sarahnollwilson.com or podcast@sarahnollwilson.com if you still get an error let me know!
Would love to hear your story/example.
@@SarahNollWilson just sent you an email.
💯
It's not at all "workplace retaliation" if the employ is a dumb ass, worthless employee who's continually irresponsible.
Any person who won't do his job as hired surely doesn't deserve to actually keep his job. Case closed -
yeah that's a completely different situation and this video is not addressing the case you bring up.